The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

Jessica Breaux's critical review of 422...

Arrow “Lost in the Flood” Review (Season 4, Episode 22)
Jessica Breaux  May 20, 2016
http://www.tvequals.com/2016/05/20/arrow-lost-in-the-flood-review-season-4-episode-22/

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... Donna (understandably) has issues with Noah. Based on everything we’ve heard up to this point, he was a bad husband, an even worse father, and an overall horrible human being. However, in the here and now, he’s trying to help Felicity save the world. Literally. Whether or not his motives are pure isn’t really relevant. The fact remains that Felicity needed help and he stepped up to help her. End of story. Whatever decision Felicity reaches about their relationship going forward should be up to her, not Donna. And is NOBODY going to address the fact that Donna spent almost all of Felicity’s life feeding her lies about what happened with Noah? She told Felicity that Noah abandoned them, but that wasn’t the truth. She kicked him out and took Felicity. I’m sure she had a good reason, but the fact remains that she made the choice for Felicity back then and then proceeded to lie about it for the next 25 years or so. She also fed Felicity all her negative thoughts and feelings about Noah, and she’s just wrong for that. Her issues with Noah are just that. HER issues. It’s not right to put that kind of stuff on Felicity and, in the process, rob Felicity of the opportunity to come to her own conclusions about her father. Because for better or worse, that’s what he is. You would think seeing how Donna’s lies fostered a sense of abandonment in Felicity would’ve stopped Donna this time, but oh no. Her hatred and jealousy toward Noah was more important to her than allowing Felicity to decide for herself what kind of relationship she wants to have with her father.

This whole situation was about Donna’s attempt to maintain control in Felicity’s life, and it’s ridiculous. Granted, Donna may be correct that Noah hasn’t fundamentally changed. I don’t believe that people can fundamentally change who they are. At least not often. But people do grow up, and life experience has a way of changing our perspective and our response to certain situations. Who’s to say that that hasn’t happened with Noah? I don’t believe it has, but it might have. If Felicity chooses to accept Noah, warts and all, into her life, that’s her choice. And who’s to say that she wouldn’t be a positive influence on him and help him get on the straight and narrow? ...

... Which gave Oliver an opportunity to lament the fact that he hasn’t been able to give Starling City hope. I understand that’s the theme of the season, but how many times are the powers that be planning to beat us over the head with it? I get it. Oliver wants to give the people hope, but he doesn’t really know how to do it and everything he’s tried up to this point has failed. I would much rather the show assume that I’m smart enough to get it without them continually dropping anvils on my head about it.
*  *  *
Arrow has struggled quite a bit storywise this season, so this episode lacked some of the emotional punch it could’ve had if the show had told a more focused story. It took entirely too long to lay out Darhk’s plan, and as a villain, Darhk hasn’t been particularly impressive. Which is a shame because Neal McDonough is capable of playing a fantastic villain. It’s always nice for Curtis to pop up in an episode, but it still raises the question of why they didn’t call him last week. Especially since Curtis is the one who came up with the way to freeze Darhk out of Rubicon. I guess we’ll have to see how it all pans out since it looks like Darhk is planning to compel Felicity to unlock Rubicon for him....

Edited May 21, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Three If By Space's generally positive review of 422...

Arrow 422 Review: “Lost in the Flood” Of Chaos
By: Alisha Bjorklund    May 20, 2016
http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2016/05/arrow-422-review-lost-flood-chaos/#.V0BocPkrLIU

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Just like last week, Anarky was hard at work messing up everyone’s plans and generally causing chaos. His attention is still focused on Damien Darhk primarily, but his actions have an effect on everyone running around in the ark. His brand of chaos meant that this episode kept viewers on their toes with exceptional fight sequences and a couple surprises—the biggest being Ruve’s death.
*  *  *
... But then, because the show didn’t have more time, Thea snapped out of her brainwashing much too quickly. As great as Oliver is at delivering epic speeches, even his emotional words wouldn’t, realistically, be enough to make her suddenly break out of her mental manipulation.
*  *  *
I’m glad we got some light shed on the Smoak family history, and that we got a twist on the story Felicity has believed all these years. But it seems like this family drama should have played out much earlier than in the episode right before the finale. Noah was there to serve the primary storyline, though, so it was a convenient excuse to air the Smoaks’ dirty laundry.

So while her parents squabbled, Felicity realized that her parents’ relationship was in some ways a mirror of her relationship with Oliver. That revelation came from Curtis, who was in the episode for . . . vague reasons (he just kind of showed up out of the blue, actually). As much as I love Curtis, it did seem a little out of place for him to be there.
*  *  *
So Donna and Noah are the original Olicity, and Felicity is *hint, hint, nudge, nudge* shown that she has an opportunity to not make the same mistakes her parents made. It’s a touching sentiment, one that all Olicity shippers can cheer about because it means there’s a potential make up in the future (a light at the end of the tunnel, if you will). But still, it wasn’t great timing when they all should be more concerned with the looming apocalypse and the already-high body count.
*  *  *
I give this episode 8.5 out of 10. It did a good job setting up the situation for the season finale, especially now that Darhk is a super-powered loose cannon who wants to destroy the world because not even he has anything left to live for. But the Smoak family drama and the “Overly-Easy Thea Solution” (that sounds dirtier than I meant) made me drop the score. Problems aside, this episode succeeded most in setting up the dire situation that (we hope) will make for a great final episode with a satisfying conclusion.

Edited May 21, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

jbuffyangel's positive review of 422...

TRUE HOPE: (LOST IN THE FLOOD) ARROW 4X22 REVIEW 
MAY 21, 2016 @ 00:48
http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/144688204743/true-hope-lost-in-the-flood-arrow-4x22-review

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“Lost in the Flood” felt like a continuation of 4x20. By that I mean, Arrow continues to get back to basics. So many of the elements we loved about the early season of Arrow were back in full force. Diggle/Oliver in the field, Felicity rocking the computers and a fast paced story. But there were much deeper themes in the episode. HUGE life themes are explored and that’s what I always love about Arrow. They manage to dig out these nuggets of truth while Oliver is fighting magic with arrows.

Can't watch this enough:

 

Edited May 21, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

USA Today's mostly positive review of 422...

Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent recap 'Arrow' episode 'Lost in the Flood': Is hope all we have?
By: Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent  May 20, 2016 6:00 pm
http://happyeverafter.usatoday.com/2016/05/20/allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-arrow-recap-lost-in-the-flood/

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AB: There were some absolutely great moments in this episode and some head-scratching moments. Overall, Lost in the Flood was a mostly great lead-in to next week’s season finale. The pluses: (almost) non-stop action including the fabulous  Lonnie “Anarky” Machin, who is such a great and unpredictable bad guy; the flashbacks (which, coupled with last week, finally make sense and actually seem to be leading to something to use to defeat Darhk); and the Felicity family drama. The negatives: Thea getting mind-controlled (again!); Darhk being pretty much off-screen except for the very beginning and very end of the episode; Malcolm flip-flopping all over the place (totally not in character for me); and the Felicity family drama.

Why is Felicity family drama a plus and a negative? First, it was great — those scenes were so much fun and rapid-fire. But … really! You’re trying to stop the entire world from being nuked and you can have these discussions while typing on multiple keyboards to defeat Rubicon? I’m willing to suspend a lot of disbelief … but this one, uh, I think the writers could have come up with a better way to deal with Felicity, Donna and Noah.
*  *  *
LK: ... I LOVED the Felicity family drama (and Curtis) — and yet, I agree with you. I think it helped to mess up the pacing. I thought a lot about how I would have felt if I had written this episode. I would have written those scenes. I would have loved them. And then, I would have “killed my darlings.” Some scenes are perfect and still don’t work in a book — or at least, don’t work where they are placed in a book. This episode needed fast intensity, and the family scenes slowed it down too much. I do like humor with my dark, but this took it a little too far.
*  *  *
I did like this episode, despite my complaints. While I was watching it I was riveted. It was only when I started to take it apart that my complaints grew.
*  *  *
AB: While this episode had some flaws, mostly in the construction and some of the story choices, it was still a good episode. It moved the story forward and is promising a big finale. Everything has been leading up to this point: Damien Darhk has nothing to lose and wants to destroy the world. Team Arrow has to stop him. But the stakes are definitely raised because Darhk has Felicity! So very exciting!

Edited May 21, 2016 by tv echo

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Can't watch this enough:

 

I loved this stunt - it felt very comic book-y - but I wish it hadn't moved away so quickly? I kind of wanted to see him land. But that's obviously down to the directing.

[tv echo]

Emertainment Monthly's very positive review of 422...

‘Arrow’ Review: “Lost in the Flood”
May 20, 2016 Nora Dominick ‘17
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/2016/05/20/arrow-review-lost-flood/

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With only two episodes left of Arrow this season, the hit CW show pulls out all the stops and delivers arguably its best episode this season. With equal parts heart, stunts and non-stop action, Arrow reminds fans why they fell in love with the DC TV show in the first place. In the latest episode entitled “Lost in the Flood,” Oliver (Stephen Amell) desperately tries to save Thea (Willa Holland) underground while Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) has a family reunion above....

.

Edited May 21, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The Arrow Death That Affected Oliver The Most, According To Stephen Amell
BY LAURA HURLEY, REPORTING; GREG WAKEMAN  18 HOURS AGO
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Arrow-Death-Affected-Oliver-Most-According-Stephen-Amell-139517.html

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The CW’s Arrow has been a surprisingly dark superhero series that isn't afraid to kill off some of Oliver Queen’s nearest and dearest. Those deaths have affected Oliver’s journey as a superhero in a big way, and it turns out that one death in particular changed his attitude toward crimefighting. CinemaBlend’s Greg Wakeman spoke with star Stephen Amell ahead of the release for his upcoming feature Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2, and when asked which of Arrow's many deaths hit Oliver the hardest, here’s what Amell had to say:

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Well, the death of his father was one thing, but just speaking about the present day since we started the series and not just the flashbacks I’d say Tommy. That’s obviously informed a lot of his modus operandi and his no-killing rule for the past several years.

*  *  *
... Oliver of Season 1 did an awful lot of killing as the Hood, and an awful lot of that killing could have been avoided. The heartbreak of losing his best pal when his best pal thought that his methods were wrong was enough to push Oliver toward the superhero straight-and-narrow of not killing. Oliver has suffered plenty of tragedies in the present over the four seasons so far, but none has changed the course of his mission nearly as much as the death of Tommy Merlyn. 
*  *  *
The friendship between Oliver and Tommy was actually one of the best elements of Season 1. Stephen Amell and Colin Donnell had a great chemistry as best buddies, and Tommy learning Oliver’s costume-laden secret was a turning point of the whole season. For all that Oliver hopped between beds and love interests in the first season, his most important non-familial relationship was with Tommy. It’s hard to imagine that any other death, circa Season 1 or otherwise, might have had the same effect on Oliver as Tommy’s. 

Stephen Amell mentioning Tommy as the death that affected Oliver most is a solid reminder that he’s been one of the most consistently good aspects of Arrow from the very beginning. Amell has carried the show through some dark times, and it’s nice to know that all of the magic and all of the superpowers of seasons since haven't eclipsed for him the importance of Tommy Merlyn in Oliver’s journey. 

Edited May 21, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

3 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I loved this stunt - it felt very comic book-y - but I wish it hadn't moved away so quickly? I kind of wanted to see him land. But that's obviously down to the directing.

I know nothing about directing, but I think Glen Winter does such a good job.  That whole chase sequence stood out - much as that sequence he did with Dig and Roy in 310 - yet you only hear about Bamford -.-

[BkWurm1]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 1:55 PM, lemotomato said:

It really is. Season 1, at least, could have fit right in on the Disney channel when they were making shows like "Phil of the Future"

I understand my tolerance for The Flash so much better now.  ;)

18 minutes ago, looptab said:

I know nothing about directing, but I think Glen Winter does such a good job.  That whole chase sequence stood out - much as that sequence he did with Dig and Roy in 310 - yet you only hear about Bamford -.-

Doesn't Bamford still do the stunts?  For a stunt coordinator, Bamfords not the worst director, but GW really knows how to make all the shots look good including the stunts. 

[TyranAmiros]

Bamford was on the Afterbuzz Podcast this week and really dragged it down. Just not engaging at all. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think it also helps that Glen Winter used to be one of their resident directors, so he has a little bit more say than directors who come in for an episode. So during the production meeting when he says he wants to do a loooooong tracking shot of Oliver and Digg running in the middle of the suburbs, he's more apt to get it.

[looptab]

11 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I think it also helps that Glen Winter used to be one of their resident directors,

He was? Cool I didn't even know that Arrow had resident directors. Ijust knew he was director of photography.

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Doesn't Bamford still do the stunts? 

Yes, I was just whining about the media going on and on about Bamford's directing and barely mentioning anyone else - even when the work is much superior. 

[dtissagirl]

5 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I loved this stunt - it felt very comic book-y - but I wish it hadn't moved away so quickly? I kind of wanted to see him land. But that's obviously down to the directing.

I would say this is a stunt safety issue rather than directing. There's most likely a mattress for him to fall into behind the bushes, and that's why they didn't shoot the landing.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, looptab said:

I know nothing about directing, but I think Glen Winter does such a good job.  That whole chase sequence stood out - much as that sequence he did with Dig and Roy in 310 - yet you only hear about Bamford -.-

I wasn't criticizing his directing on the whole. Just that I wish we'd see more of Oliver's stunt in that shot. Agree about only ever hearing about Bam Bam though.

 

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

I would say this is a stunt safety issue rather than directing. There's most likely a mattress for him to fall into behind the bushes, and that's why they didn't shoot the landing.

Good point.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Guest

[looptab]

20 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I wasn't criticizing his directing on the whole. Just that I wish we'd see more of Oliver's stunt in that shot. Agree about only ever hearing about Bam Bam though.

Oh, I know you weren't. :) I saw an opening to complain about Bamford, and I took it =)

[TyranAmiros]

The Quiver podcast is advertising the "Felicity and Friends" Season Finale this week. It made me laugh. 

[wonderwall]

Yeah I checked the Quiver podcast... They'd probably blame global warming on Felicity and  weirdly enough, for a podcast that talks about the show, they really don't know what's happening in the show... They're hilariously pathetic imo (the Erik Kain of podcasts lol). 

But yes, I can't wait for the Felicity and Friends finale!

Edited May 23, 2016 by wonderwall

[looptab]

Funny thing is all of these biased media that cover the show are among those SA acknowledged. He also used to link to GATV reviews. See if he mentions them now? :D

[lemotomato]

So Tribune Media dumped The CW in Chicago after all. Sounds like network will stay in the Chicago market, just on a different and smaller station? Not sure what this will mean for ratings next season, but at least they won't be preempted for sports anymore. 

http://www.robertfeder.com/2016/05/22/robservations-wgn-to-drop-cw-network/

Edited May 23, 2016 by lemotomato

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

So Tribune Media dumped The CW in Chicago after all. Sounds like network will stay in the Chicago market, just on a different and smaller station? Not sure what this will mean for ratings next season, but at least they won't be preempted for sports anymore. 

http://www.robertfeder.com/2016/05/22/robservations-wgn-to-drop-cw-network/

I'm wondering if CW PTB already knew this was happening when they rearranged the scheduled.

[Thundercatmary]

3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Yeah I checked the Quiver podcast... They'd probably blame global warming on Felicity and  weirdly enough, for a podcast that talks about the show, they really don't know what's happening in the show... They're hilariously pathetic imo (the Erik Kain of podcasts lol). 

But yes, I can't wait for the Felicity and Friends finale!

3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

 

Honestly I'm getting pretty tired of people, especially some of these podcasts, taking cheap shots at Felicity. God forbid we care about other people on the show besides Oliver, it's like they've convinced themselves she's taken over the show when she hadn't. It's just making me mad, it's why I rage quit the blind wave podcast this weekend, I mean one of them was seriously blaming those Havenrock deaths on Felicity. 

[dtissagirl]

I look at it this way -- the ONLY THING re: Felicity they changed this season, after the criticism she got last season -- is she doesn't cry as much. And this was something EBR herself didn't like, so for all we know, they changed it because EBR asked for it.

Nothing else whatsoever re: Felicity got changed. So the criticism is not being absorbed by those who make the show. I mean, they told EBR at the start of the season that Felicity and Oliver were the only safe characters from the grave flash-forward. That's the level of confidence the content makers have in Felicity.

Edited May 23, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Ceylon5]

There isn't really anything else about her to change.  Felicity is still the same person she was in S1 & S2 when she wasn't being criticized by anyone - she makes the same kinds of jokes and snark, still talks too fast and puts her foot in her mouth, sticks up for herself the same way, still gives Oliver a hard time when he's doing something she disagrees with, does the same fancy computer magic, goes into the field from time to time, gets to be both a damsel and a hero on occasion (as they all do), has the same interesting grey morality, etc.  Apart from being in a relationship with Oliver and having a different job description - which are character circumstances, not character traits - she's otherwise just a slightly older, slightly more jaded version of S1 Felicity.  

It's not Felicity herself, in any event, that people are really bleating about (even if they think it is); it's the storylines she's been given - mostly that she's Oliver's love interest, but also to a lesser degree that she got to be CEO (while he's poor) and that she's finally getting more backstory and family and friends, so that her life isn't All Oliver All the Time, like it was in S2.  What I'm getting from the whole Felicity and Friends thing is that people are jealous that this upstart female character who isn't even in the comics (gasp!) is now getting treated as a proper person and not just a prop to the plot and to Oliver, and as a consequence theoretically more screentime is being devoted to things that don't involve leather costumes and ACTION.  What they're forgetting is that in S1 & S2 there was a lot of storyline that wasn't costumed action - most of Thea's, Tommy's, Moira's and Laurel's storylines, as well as some of Diggle's and Oliver's storylines were the kind of storylines that Felicity is now getting (non Arrow work/friends and family interactions) - but since Moira died and Thea and Laurel became part of the costumed action, Felicity was left shouldering the bulk of the responsibility of providing some balance on the show between regular life and Arrow life.  

I think the argument that there is a structural problem in the show is valid; but blaming Felicity for this is bizarre, since she's the one character they're actually balancing correctly.  If anything, they should blame the writers for going too far towards turning all the other characters into one-dimensional fighting-masked-stunt-people-in-the-dark interchangeable masks, and not giving them all more stories in the daytime with other characters outside their little group.  But maybe that's the issue - that Felicity is perceived as actually being better written than the others, and people are annoyed on the other characters' behalves?  Since all the writing is pretty iffy, though, this seems like a stretch...

Edited May 23, 2016 by Ceylon5

[tv echo]

She's ba-ack...

'Arrow' S04E22: What worked in 'Lost in the Flood' 
Laura Hurley  May 22, 2016  9:01 AM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e22-what-worked-lost-the-flood

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“Lost in the Flood” is yet another episode that proves that Team Arrow really works best as a three-person operation. Thea has been delightful whenever she’s been tasked with a Roy Harper-esque sidekick role, and Laurel came in handy a few times as Black Canary, but the original Team Arrow trio knows how to get stuff done without getting in each other’s way. Three has never been a crowd for Team Arrow, and each of the original members got to be in action and effective on their particular front lines in "Lost in the Flood." Digg and Oliver both got big moments, and they were believable as partners who could keep up with each other in the field without having their hard-earned abilities marginalized. Felicity did what she did best and did her part to save the world from behind a keyboard.

The action of “Lost in the Flood” had enough scale that it actually felt somewhat on par with the action of earlier seasons. The chase sequence that featured Oliver and Digg racing through the evil suburbs at top speed was enough to make the pulse quicken, and Oliver’s twist move as he fired an arrow back at his pursuers even as he leapt forward over a hedge was worth a rewind. In fact, Oliver’s action in “Lost in the Flood” was overall good enough that his loss to Thea feels more like Oliver didn’t want to go all out against his drugged baby sister than itty bitty Thea getting the better of big strong Oliver.

'Arrow' S04E22: What didn't work in 'Lost in the Flood' 
Laura Hurley  May 22, 2016 11:14 AM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e22-what-didn-t-work-lost-the-flood

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... The zany shenanigans during the lighter moments in the loft didn’t fit with Felicity’s horrified reaction at the annihilation of Havenrock from the end of the previous episode, and Arrow didn’t do enough to establish compartmentalization to justify the lightheartedness. The shenanigans were fun and kept the doom and gloom from overwhelming the narrative, but there should have been more fallout from the end of last week’s “Monument Point.”
*  *  *
Arrow really should have added a few more dots to connect between citizens of Star City being discouraged by their misfortunes and citizens of Star City signing on with a plan involving a nuclear apocalypse that would end billions of lives and poison the outside world with radiation. Was there some sort of embargo enforced against Star City to stop people from moving? Couldn’t they have just…left and gone somewhere that doesn’t end up on the verge of destruction every May? There needed to be more to justify anybody buying into Damien Darhk’s plan without brainwashing en masse in the mix.
*  *  *
Arrow fell short on using Curtis to parallel the drama the broke up the Smoak/Kuttler family with the drama that broke up Oliver/Felicity. The intention was clearly to establish that Felicity was following in Donna’s footsteps and not giving Oliver credit as somebody who could change, but Felicity is not the Donna in the situation the brought about the end of Olicity. By making the decision for Felicity that she did not need to know about his son, Oliver became the Donna of the breakup with William in the Noah role. Felicity is once again the person whose life was directed by another person making a decision for her, and so the parallel that suggested that Felicity was the Donna of the Olicity breakup didn’t work. Donna was wrong to cut Noah out of Felicity's life and lie about it for a couple of decades, and Oliver was wrong to hide William from Felicity and lie about his trips to Central City. Felicity wasn't wrong to decide for herself that her relationship with Oliver wasn't working for what she wanted at this point in life.

'Arrow' S04E22: What needs to happen next after 'Lost in the Flood' 
Laura Hurley  May 22, 2016 1:22 PM MS
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e22-what-needs-to-happen-next-after-lost-the-flood

Quote

Damien Darhk needs to definitively lose in the Season 4 finale... Then, he decided that he would unleash a nuclear apocalypse on the world despite not knowing for sure if his daughter had indeed died. Damien Darhk is no longer an evil genius. Now, he’s an evil dummy, and he deserves to be defeated.

The Season 4 finale needs to be the end of magic as a major plot on Arrow for the foreseeable future...  Arrow is best when it plays to Oliver’s strengths rather than twists Oliver to facilitate a villain, and the fantastical of the Flarrow-verse should henceforth be left to The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow.

Malcolm Merlyn needs to die....

If the flashbacks for Season 5 are going to be at all engaging, Ambiguously Accented Woman needs to die. She’s been failure of a character on several fronts, not the least of which was the complete lack of spark with Oliver....

Donna needs to be called out by somebody other than Noah for her decision to lie to Felicity about him abandoning them....
*  *  *
If Oliver and Felicity get back together in the Season 4 finale, Arrow needs to be clear that they still have a long journey ahead of them as partners in a relationship. Felicity will need to learn to wholly trust that Oliver will be open with her, and Oliver needs to get into the habit of instinctively including her. Neither was ready for marriage in Season 4, and they certainly aren’t ready now that they’ve gone through a big breakup for very real reasons. Love is not all anybody needs to make a relationship work, and they can come to an understanding without getting re-engaged in the wake of trauma. The love story of Olicity can progress through careful steps to avoid pitfalls rather than leaps over the hurdles that broke them up. The ring can stay in the box for a while yet.

Edited May 23, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

21 minutes ago, Ceylon5 said:

I think the argument that there is a structural problem in the show is valid;

Could you expand a bit on this? I don't think I ever came across this particular argument - or if I did, it must have been buried under the tons of "Felicity sucks", "this is the Felicity and Friends show" kind of arguments. :) 

[Sakura12]

5 hours ago, lemotomato said:

So Tribune Media dumped The CW in Chicago after all. Sounds like network will stay in the Chicago market, just on a different and smaller station? Not sure what this will mean for ratings next season, but at least they won't be preempted for sports anymore. 

http://www.robertfeder.com/2016/05/22/robservations-wgn-to-drop-cw-network/

I don't know what they plan on airing, the only time the CW was off the air was for sports. I guess I don't really care what channel the show is on and you are right I won't have to worry about sport interruptions anymore. I don't think it will effect the ratings, the CW is on different channels in each state. It's just on a different channel in Chicago now. 

[bijoux]

16 minutes ago, tv echo said:

'Arrow' S04E22: What needs to happen next after 'Lost in the Flood' 
Laura Hurley  May 22, 2016 1:22 PM MS
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e22-what-needs-to-happen-next-after-lost-the-flood

Quote

Then, he decided that he would unleash a nuclear apocalypse on the world despite not knowing for sure if his daughter had indeed died. 

This was the moment when they lost me with Darhk. If he was an uncaring bastard all around since the beginning, fair enough. But there were explicit 'daughters are not to be touched' vibes early in the season, which people doubted were prompted by his own daughter and that was confirmed in 409. And now he doesn't give a crap that she's out there and will die? They should have played it as Malcolm erroneously telling him she died with Ruve.

[Ceylon5]

2 minutes ago, looptab said:

Could you expand a bit on this? I don't think I ever came across this particular argument - or if I did, it must have been buried under the tons of "Felicity sucks", "this is the Felicity and Friends show" kind of arguments. :) 

I don't know if anyone used those words in their "critiques", probably because "Felicity and Friends" has a better ring to it than "structural problem", but as I said above and as many of us have said over the last 2 seasons, the show became very imbalanced in S3 (and has only been slightly better this season), with almost all the story being about the Arrow stuff and almost none of it, other than Felicity & Ray, being outside of the lair.  I think the loss of Moira had a massive detrimental effect on the show, because as long as she was around, Oliver & Thea had a non-mask anchor in the story, and the writers HAD to come up with storylines that weren't all about the Arrow stuff.  She gave the story a bit of depth, and with her came parties and peripheral characters and things happening in the daytime.  The half-hearted mayor storyline this year didn't go nearly far enough IMO to give the story that added dimension that Moira gave it.

In the first two seasons we knew where everyone was getting their money, what work they did and what their "cover" personas were.  In season 3 they didn't even seem to need cover personas (other than Felicity) because they had no presence outside the lair worth mentioning.  It's like half the story just vanished, and the show was much the lesser for it.  So that's what I mean by structural problem.  We need to see them caring about the city in the daytime - the actual normal people they interact with, the actual places they work or have dinner at (Big Belly Burger, where are you?), the actual reasons why they'd give a damn about that horrid city and its amorphous, terminally stupid population.  Having too many masks and too few non-masks to fight for makes the show a little pointless, insular and by-the-numbers.

[looptab]

Thank you. I wasn't sure what you were referring to, I read "structural problems" and I automatically think of the flashbacks :)

But yes, I totally agree. They made a half hearted attempt at this with Alex - and failed miserably; Diggle apparently still works as a bodyguard for Oliver to the outside world, but I only know this because they made a point of saying it during the court scenes, otherwise it was left up to the imagination;  Thea forgot all about Verdant to follow Oliver's campaign. Let's not even talk about Laurel. Ironically, the one besides Felicity who still is seen outside of Arrow related business is Quentin. :)

[Ceylon5]

9 minutes ago, looptab said:

Thank you. I wasn't sure what you were referring to, I read "structural problems" and I automatically think of the flashbacks :)

But yes, I totally agree. They made a half hearted attempt at this with Alex - and failed miserably; Diggle apparently still works as a bodyguard for Oliver to the outside world, but I only know this because they made a point of saying it during the court scenes, otherwise it was left up to the imagination;  Thea forgot all about Verdant to follow Oliver's campaign. Let's not even talk about Laurel. Ironically, the one besides Felicity who still is seen outside of Arrow related business is Quentin. :)

Ha, I don't think anyone's found a way of blaming the terrible flashbacks on Felicity yet!  Give them time, though; I'm sure someone will think of something.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Ceylon5

[tv echo]

I came across this Nov. 26, 2014 Washington Post article, which I don't think was previously posted in this forum (only Arrow portions quoted)...

Quote

In “Arrow,” it is not particularly the superhero himself who compels me, though Stephen Amell brings a lot of credit to Oliver Queen’s grandiose and flawed but deeply felt hope to save his city, or at least make a contribution to its security. Instead, it is the ensemble Berlanti and his staff have built around Oliver, the less-than-super humans who do not have the advantage of Oliver’s combat training or his strength and speed, but who are fighting with him nonetheless.

First in my heart is Felicity Smoak, a marvelously unique creation brought beautifully to life by Emily Betts Rickards’s sensitive performance. Unlike Marvel’s Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson), Felicity is not out in the field, kicking villainous keister to prove she can punch out bad guys with the boys. Instead, she is an IT whiz, making most of her contributions to Team Arrow by sending her fingers flying across a keyboard or sorting data with her sharp eyes. Felicity is valuable on her own terms, not merely by the criteria used to measure whether men are strong or powerful.
*  *  *
And while Felicity is beautiful and highly feminine, she is no sex toy to be lusted after, stolen and threatened, and then rescued. Her attachment to Oliver grows out of their work together, the same work that makes Oliver an unsuitable partner. Felicity’s flirtations with other men, including forensic scientist and secret superhero Barry Allen (Grant Gustin) and business titan Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh), are also based on mental affinity and mutual respect. She is maybe the only woman in superhero storytelling who is credibly loved for her mind.

I also love John Diggle (David Ramsey), the former soldier who started as Oliver’s bodyguard and became an integral part of his crime-fighting team. Diggle is tough and physically proficient, if not a beneficiary of the torturous training Oliver received during his years away from home.
*  *  *
But part of what is so wonderful about him is the way Diggle’s work with Oliver helps him to recognize his limits and to develop a more tender side of his personality. After reuniting with his ex-wife and becoming a father, Diggle becomes less reckless. In his new role, proving himself Oliver’s equal is less important. So many superheroes and their teams risk everything. Diggle has something to lose, and those human-size stakes make every scene with him feel genuinely tense in the way that the swaths of destruction that are carved across most superhero movies increasingly fail to register as anything other than CGI.

Edited May 23, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, looptab said:

But yes, I totally agree. They made a half hearted attempt at this with Alex - and failed miserably; Diggle apparently still works as a bodyguard for Oliver to the outside world, but I only know this because they made a point of saying it during the court scenes, otherwise it was left up to the imagination;  Thea forgot all about Verdant to follow Oliver's campaign. Let's not even talk about Laurel. Ironically, the one besides Felicity who still is seen outside of Arrow related business is Quentin. :)

It kinda feels pretty deliberate too -- the two regular characters without masks, Felicity and Quentin, get to have their daytime jobs actually written into the story regularly. The masks might have a daytime job or not, but they don't get to have that actual daytime life shown to the audience.

I foolishly thought Oliver running for Mayor, with Thea as his campaign manager, would give the two of them some world-building outside of the Arrow cave. Instead we got completely irrelevant to anything Alex, and Alex alone.

Edited May 23, 2016 by dtissagirl

[looptab]

27 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I foolishly thought Oliver running for Mayor, with Thea as his campaign manager, would give the two of them some world-building outside of the Arrow cave. Instead we got completely irrelevant to anything Alex, and Alex alone.

Me, too. I think the only time they mentioned the campaign between 409 and  when he dropped offin 415 was in 414 with the debate? Debate which we didnt even get to see. I thought we'd get to see interviews with the news lady from channel 52! Let's hope 

Spoiler

they do better next season, if Oliver does become mayor.

[NumberCruncher]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if this show didn't have at least something beyond the action scenes (i.e. normal people doing normal things) it would be the most boring show ever and not one that I would still be watching 4 seasons later.

[dtissagirl]

They don't do so bad in the first 9 episodes, in balancing overall arc + freak of the week + most regular characters having to juggle daytime and nighttime jobs. Then whatever they plan for January going into February sweeps pretty much relegates daytime jobs/lives outside the Arrowcave/world-building to offscreenville from ep 15 to the finale.

Spoiler

 I figure if Oliver ends up Mayor in the finale, we'll only see it as an active part of the narrative from 501 to 509.

[SmallScreenDiva]

The characters need lives outside of Arrow. Count me among those who'd hoped the mayoral campaign was going to be used as a way for Oliver to remember why he's fighting to save the city. I also need more bonding with the characters. That family dinner with the Diggles after Oliver went to join the LOA is something I want to see more of. 

[looptab]

Nah, it's better to devote episodes to the freaking League of Assassins! ;)

This year was actually worse in the 'team bonding' department: we only got OTA going for a beer  - while last year we got dinner at the Diggles both at the end of 307 and at the beginning of 321.

(I'm not counting the parties or the drinks at the Loft during the crossover  because those scenes were not purely 'hey, let's hang out' but served the plot - but more of that would be nice).

[marihunc]

12 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Yeah I checked the Quiver podcast... They'd probably blame global warming on Felicity and  weirdly enough, for a podcast that talks about the show, they really don't know what's happening in the show... They're hilariously pathetic imo (the Erik Kain of podcasts lol). 

But yes, I can't wait for the Felicity and Friends finale!

I can't believe there was a time when Quiver was actually a good podcast and one that actually deserved the listener votes it got to land the interview with Stephen Amell. That's definitely not the case anymore. Basically the only podcast I still like listening to is the Arrow Squad at Golden Spiral Media - one of the hosts was actually moderating some of the panels at HVFF, and Podcast Overlord is a die-hard Felicity-fan :)))) Too bad the RealmCast guys went on an extended hiatus with all their shows (and since one of the guys that did the Arrow Rundown moved away, they haven't started season 4 :(( )

[looptab]

I miss the Realmcast podcast, if only for the sound of clip-clopping every time there was a Laurel scene. :) 

[marihunc]

Oh yeah, me too :DDD And the way they mixed the original Canary Cry sound with the horse whinny the first time Laurel used Sara's device... I totally lost it there :DDDD I can only imagine what they would come up with for the death scene...

[kismet]

I knew the mayor story would amount to nothing in the way of taking the action outside of Arrow business.  It was an easy  grab from the comics & current pop culture,  but the writers don't seem jazzed by it. it was just an excuse for OQ to monologue.

MQ & QC worked because people were invested the characters and the family company.  I don't think anyone cares about Palmer Tech because its still Ray's company. They didn't find a good enough way to make it emotionally relevant. FS barely seemed to want it in the beginning.  And how she became CEO was tv ridiculous.  They should have made it a more welcome transition. No need to save the company and perhaps just one evil board member. Taking plot to save the company again just felt like a rethread.

Personally its why I think they need to have FS & CuH start their own company and bring TQ & Dig in to help run it. That way 3 major characters and the new fulltime CuH can all be emotionally invested in it. As opposed to it just being FS, the new guy & a company everyone walked away from multiple times. 

Even better if they named it Smoak or Queen and took QC loyalists from PT. TQ can use her money and finally declare herself a Queen by following in her real parents' footsteps. I think it's about time TQ sees RQs video message and comes back in S5 with a purpose to regain her family's legacy.

Edited May 23, 2016 by kismet

[looptab]

23 minutes ago, kismet said:

MQ & QC worked because people were invested the characters and the family company.  I don't think anyone cares about Palmer Tech because its still Ray's company. They didn't find a good enough way to make it emotionally relevant. FS barely seemed to want it in the beginning.  And how she became CEO was tv ridiculous.  They should have made it a more welcome transition. No need to save the company and perhaps just one evil board member. Taking plot to save the company again just felt like a rethread.

Well, I didn't actually care for QC, as much as I liked seeing scenes of Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, and occasionally Moira around it. I cared when Oliver lost it because it was in the Top 3 stupidest things he had done at that point. I cared when they blew up the Applied Sciences building because Oliver cared.

The same it's true for PalmerTech, it doesn't matter that it's Ray's company. Felicity does care for it, so I care. She was affected when she had to fire the employees. She struggled and fought for it (maybe not as much as I'd have liked to see, but still). She put her hard work into it. And she was affected when she got fired. So, to me it is emotionally relevant. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by looptab

[kismet]

25 minutes ago, looptab said:

Well, I didn't actually care for QC, as much as I liked seeing scenes of Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, and occasionally Moira around it. I cared when Oliver lost it because it was in the Top 3 stupidest things he had done at that point. I cared when they blew up the Applied Sciences building because Oliver cared.

The same it's true for PalmerTech, it doesn't matter that it's Ray's company. Felicity does care for it, so I care. She was affected when she had to fire the employees. She struggled and fought for it (maybe not as much as I'd have liked to see, but still). She put her hard work into it. And she was affected when she got fired. So, to me it is emotionally relevant. 

I see your point. I guess my point was more if you are inclined to not like FS, then it's easy to see how the PT's storyline has become too much like Felicity & friends. I like FS, but I can find better stories to tell with her and have found the PT stories in s4 to be be boring. I only like it when someone is breaking into the company to steal stuff.

I emotionally cared about QC in s1 because it was part of OQ's story & family legacy. Would he go back or not, plus I loved MQ & WS scenes there. Plus it became relevant plot wise because it became part of the Undertaking. In s2, I cared about it because everyone was there and because Isabel was trying to take it over. So it was critical to the villain it must be critical to me. In s3, I stopped really caring about it because OQ stopped and RP took over. And because I hated RP & the fact that he was used to keep OTA apart, I eventually stopped caring about it because it was no longer relevant except to give RP screentime. Then he signs it away in a stupid fashion and FS peaced out on it first chance. She offered it back to OQ during pillowtalk. Perhaps they should have made her less nonchalant in the season premiere. In my mind, she never gave her reasons as to why she wants to be CEO besides not firing people.

FS caring about not firing people was emotionally charged, but it never got me over the hump to care about the company again. FS cares about people, to me that is not the same thing as caring about the company. Again it was just a place to give CuH screentime. So for me it now just feels like a place to have scenes. The battery story was dumb and perhaps if they had allowed FS to be responsible for trying to save the company then perhaps I could get back invested. I never got the impression that FS cares about the company as much as she just likes hanging out with CuH. Same thing last year, where she spent her time at PT helping RP build his suit and nothing else.

I fault the writers because they have not brought back why PT should be important to Arrow besides supplying them tech & sets to introduce new characters. Now in the next 45min that remain of s4, if they can some how make PT relevant to the main story arc then perhaps I can consider being convinced it might be relevant. Until then good riddance to the company and hopefully they can find a better integrated way to have a tech company relevant to the story again, instead of feeling like a separate sitcom airing in the middle of Arrow for 2 seasons in a row.

[dtissagirl]

I'm sorry for derailing everything, but CuH sounds like the word for anus in Portuguese, so I cannot.

[looptab]

I think Felicity was being insecure since the board was pondering whether or not she was fit to run the company, when she offered to give it back to Oliver. She has claimed that she wants to carry out Ray's legacy, plus she has always cared about the people who work there - which have been her coworkers for the past 6 years. The employees being out of a job was what she used to convince Oliver to come back to Starling in 201.

I guess I'm not following you anymore. I don't really have an interest in seeing the company and company-related plots, or care about the company itself, I just care insofar the characters I like care about it and the plots are interesting. But it's always been just a  place to have scenes, no matter the players. I guess that's different to you? And maybe you liked better the dynamic of s1 and s2. But I have enjoyed Curtis, and I liked the scenes where Felicity struggled during her presentation. I felt bad for her when they fired her. Now, were they my favorite aspect of the season? No. But I don't think it's an issue of the company being emotionally relevant or not, I think it merely depends on whether you like the dynamics that unfold there.

Edited May 23, 2016 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

New "This Fall on The CW" trailer:

Edited May 24, 2016 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

^Sooo much Legends in there. But glad that at least Arrow is featured quite a bit.

[kismet]

Isn't iZombie being held until the winter?

Also didn't need to see Jimmy/Kara kiss, was really hoping they would drop both that relationship & Jimmy.

Surprised to see Killer Frost in there, I wonder if that is an accidental spoiler by the editing dept?

I do enjoy that they had Arrow & Hero on the same part. Felt appropriate and fitting. For me there was enough Arrow in this promo, but then again at this point I think I'm just happy when the CW remembers it has Arrow on its schedule.

[Starfish35]

Quote

Surprised to see Killer Frost in there, I wonder if that is an accidental spoiler by the editing dept?

No, that was from the Flash Earth-2 episodes.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Starfish35

[tv echo]

Flashback to 2012 - this old article is new to me and I thought it was kinda funny...

Hump, Marry, Kill: Arrow Is Basically Hannah Montana
OCT 19, 2012 2:20 PM   LAUREN LE VINE
http://www.refinery29.com/arrow-tv-show

Quote

Hump: Listen, I understand the fascination with superheroes. I wanted to be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle and/or Lisa Simpson when I was little (I think my wee brain was under the impression that most superheroes were animated cartoons, and that Lisa Simpson possessed some sort of powers). What I don’t understand, however, are superheros who change their appearances about as much as Hannah Montana when they’re out doing their vigilante-ing.

If you’ve had a chance to watch The CW’s new show, Arrow, chances are you know what I’m talking about. Stephen Amell, resident Adonis, plays Oliver Queen, a former playboy who is marooned on an uncharted island for five years after watching his father and mistress die. If there’s one thing TV has taught us, it’s that being stranded alone leads to loads of personal growth, realizing of the errors, reforming one’s formerly wanton ways, and extreme physical fitness training. No Wi-Fi on the island, I guess.

When Oliver finds his way home five years later, he masquerades as the gadabout he once was, but he’s really prowling the streets of his corrupt city, looking to enact revenge on a list of people his father gave him before he died. It’s basically Revenge with a costume instead of cocktail dresses — except Arrow’s “costume” is nothing more than a well-fitted hunter green leather jacket with a hood that barely covers his gorgeous blue eyes and some green paint applied across those dazzling peepers.

Seeing as he’s the hottest person to ever walk the streets of the city and everyone knows who he is, it’s entirely unclear how no one guesses the identity of the mysterious “Arrow.” Then again, it worked for Hannah Montana, and all she needed was a wig to confuse absolutely everyone including the president.** Stupid, revealing costume or not, Oliver Queen is smoking hot and hasn’t had sex in five years, so someone should really jump on that.

**Not that I’ve ever watched one or multiple episodes of Hannah Montana.

Edited May 24, 2016 by tv echo