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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

True, that's the way they advertised it, and that is the root of the problem. I wouldn't have minded some throw away line about it in reviews, but the more reviews I read, the more ridiculous it gets. It's not like it was directed by Stephen Amell himself or some other cast member. 

Edited by looptab
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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Probably because the CW pushed the episode as such. The way they painted it, this was more BamBam's episode than Diggle's episode.

 

Funnily enough, Lexi Alexander's episode was advertised as Lance's episode. It was Lexi's fans that pushed some noise about it, it didn't come from either the show nor the network.

 

And... it's just so completely tone deaf to be talking about how a white dude ~finally got a chance to debut as director~. Uh. That happens every other week on 90% of tv shows?

Sooooo, when a woman directs an episode (was she the very first woman?), it's promoted as a white dude character's episode, and when a major black character has the main storyline, it's a white dude director's episode?

 

Wow, that's really tone deaf.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Sooooo, when a woman directs an episode (was she the very first woman?), it's promoted as a white dude character's episode, and when a major black character has the main storyline, it's a white dude director's episode?

 

Wow, that's really tone deaf.

 

It's also how Hollywood operates, sadly. There's a ginormous problem in non-white non-male directors being unable to book any jobs, and one of the main reasons is white men already working on TV shows in other capacities getting bumped ahead of them.

 

And no, Lexi was the 3rd woman to direct Arrow. Wendy Stanzler is one of their regulars [she's directed 6 episodes total, the latest one was 403], and Bethany Rooney directed 207.

 

411 is being directed by a woman as well, Charlotte Brandstrom.

 

It's just nowhere near enough. And if you try and find Arrow directors who aren't white, it gets even worse.

Edited by dtissagirl
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

And no, Lexi was the 3rd woman to direct Arrow. Wendy Stanzler is one of their regulars [she's directed 6 episodes total, the latest one was 403], and Bethany Rooney directed 207.

4.03 was the only episode I've loved this year, so that's cool.

 

I liked the premiere, too, but mostly just bc I really enjoyed my first look at happy Oliver.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Sooooo, when a woman directs an episode (was she the very first woman?), it's promoted as a white dude character's episode, and when a major black character has the main storyline, it's a white dude director's episode?

 

Wow, that's really tone deaf.

 

And don't forget, the Felicity centric episode was promoted as a Ray centric one... 

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EmilyBettFan

EmilyBettFan

Everyone commenting on the directing seems like a conspiracy to me, especially when Lexi Alexander received no comments AT ALL. Is he paying them? What's going on? Still feels like a sexist little boys club. Not impressed.

yup something doesn't feel right.
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Sooooo, when a woman directs an episode (was she the very first woman?), it's promoted as a white dude character's episode, and when a major black character has the main storyline, it's a white dude director's episode?

Wow, that's really tone deaf.

Wendy Stanzler directed - Veritgo in S1.  League of Assassins and Heir to the Demon in S2. Sara and This is Your Sword in S3. 

Bethany Rooney directed State vs Queen in S2

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I feel like I'm in an alternate universe, because, pardon my French, WHO THE F- CARES that Bamford directed? Why is everyone praising him, when other directors get rarely a mention? But going from these reviews, it looks like the stunt guy directing it's like the second coming of Christ.

 

And, I mean, I wasn't much impressed one way or the other with the direction. It's not that I hated it or I hate him or whatever, I simply don't get why these so-called reviewers feel like they have to spend paragraphs and paragraphs commenting on it. I feel like I'm missing something.

It's not so uncommon for actors to get a chance to direct but apart from when the Flash also did it, I've never heard of taking someone from another department and letting them direct and so breaking that barrier was kind of impressive to me. 

 

From my stand point, I was very curious to see a different perspective that would come from someone that sees the show from a specific viewpoint.  I don't think all of what Bamford did was bad but all was certainly not good.  I'd be fine with him getting another chance to direct because you know he would have learned a lot in his first time out but perhaps they should consider pairing their fledgling director with a teacher type that can explain why certain shots and techniques are a bad idea. 

 

And if Bamford deserved a shot, why not open it up further to other department heads that have a vision for the show? The people that stage dress the sets are probably great with visuals.  Same for costumers.  I like the idea of letting more people direct that are not traditional choices but let's make sure it's not limited to action dudes. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

It's not so uncommon for actors to get a chance to direct but apart from when the Flash also did it, I've never heard of taking someone from another department and letting them direct and so breaking that barrier was kind of impressive to me.

 

It's kinda pretty common. Lexi Alexander started out as a stuntwoman and then shifted gears to director, although in movies. On TV it's even more common. The X-Files let their special effects supervisor direct an episode. Smallville promoted Glen Winter from DP to director. So on and so forth.

Edited by dtissagirl
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

http://io9.com/last-nights-arrow-could-be-a-game-changer-for-superhero-1743540653

 

This reviewer doesn't wants to use the example of how different the episode was from the usual to start doing that with every episode.  I think that would be awful.

 

"This episode could be described as The James Bamford episode. Other directors could make Arrow a soft-focus melodrama, or a big, bright adventure, or a weirdo art-house flick, not because they were imitating genres but because they each imposed their own style on each episode. Letting each director realize a vision with the same characters would make Arrow like superhero comics in a way no show has ever even attempted. I think it would be great."

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calliope1975

calliope1975

It's kinda pretty common. Lexi Alexander started out as a stuntwoman and then shifted gears to director, although in movies. On TV it's even more common. The X-Files let their special effects supervisor direct an episode. Smallville promoted Glen Winter from DP to director. So on and so forth.

 

There's so many stunt coordinators that also direct 2nd unit which is usually the stunt pieces or action work. Some then move on to general directing, too. I don't mind that he was given the chance, and I was looking forward to see what his perspective would be since I'm a big fight/stunt fan, but I was not very impressed. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I admit my biases here -- I didn't think much of BamBam way before Arrow was even a thing, so I was predisposed to disdain whatever he came up with.

 

But otoh, I liked JJ Makaro's Flash episode a whole lot [and I've rewatched it several times in the past week, even], so it's not like I have a problem with all stunt coordinators getting a chance at directing. I just don't really care for the action scenes being the most important part of any show, and that's what Bam delivered. Yawnzzzzsnore.

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bijoux

bijoux

 

The thing about Thea's best disguise being the fact that Speedy's suit covers her belly button is hilarious. And not untrue.

 

 

As for Laurel, she has her sonic scream, which makes her look like a cat in heat when she uses it.

 

Yes.

 

But this part is my favorite:

Her lack of situational awareness also is so bad that Team Arrow counts on the bad guys to get the drop on her and plan accordingly.

I would laugh so hard if that was part of their strategizing. Where do you think it's most likely they'll get a drop on Laurel this time? In fact, from now on, that's exactly what's happening in my head.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I would laugh so hard if that was part of their strategizing. Where do you think it's most likely they'll get a drop on Laurel this time? In fact, from now on, that's exactly what's happening in my head.

 

Why do you think Thea said they had to go over the plan 86 times? ;)

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

From above-posted Pajiba article:

When not in crime fighting mode, Thea and Laurel both hold down day jobs. Laurel works in the District Attorney’s office. Thea ran a successful nightclub before now helping out with Ollie’s mayoral campaign. While Laurel’s resources would be handy if Felicity the superhacker weren’t around, it seems like that connection would become grounds for so many appeals if the Black Canary alter ego were uncovered.

Exactly.  The EPs should never have made Laurel change jobs from CNRI to the DA's Office if they were going to make her the BC.

Edited by tv echo
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Podcast by Craig Wack and Tatiana Torres (of Pajiba) - Arrow 407 discussion starts at 1:15:50 (Tatiana would drop the show if they killed Felicity, they also mention the above-posted Pajiba article)...

 

Agents of GEEK podcast Episode 4

Posted on November 20, 2015

http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/

I'll have to listen to that when I get home.  Craig Wack HATES Laurel.

 

Someone here, quite a long time ago, first mentioned Pajiba.  That was the first I'd heard of it, and I love it now, so whoever that was, thanks!

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tv echo

tv echo

Arrow “Brotherhood” Review (Season 4, Episode 7)
Jessica Breaux  November 19, 2015
http://www.tvequals.com/2015/11/19/arrow-brotherhood-review-season-4-episode-7/

Diggle’s refusal to give Andy the benefit of the doubt was kind of baffling to me. He knew Andy his whole life. He knew what kind of person Andy was. I guess I can understand him accepting that maybe Andy wasn’t the person he thought he was after he got Andy’s file. However, that file shouldn’t cancel out a lifetime of knowing someone. When they discovered that Darhk was using some sort of mind control pill on his soldiers, it should’ve at least caused Dig to reconsider his position. In fact, it seemed to have the opposite effect. Diggle seemed to blame Andy even more for working with Darhk and for allowing his family to think he was dead. The truth of the matter is, a person who is under the influence of any drug would be hard-pressed to make any sort of clear, completely consensual decision. Oliver is right that there is no doubt much more to the story, but Diggle has to be willing to hear the truth before he’s going to be able to get to the truth. I suppose if Diggle had had more time to research the information Lance gave him and emotionally process it with what he knew of Andy, it wouldn’t have been so hard for Diggle to at least give Andy the benefit of the doubt.
*  *  *
... Oliver desperately needs to believe that Andy isn’t past saving because he needs to believe that the city isn’t past saving. Even more than that, Oliver needs to believe that he’s not past saving. He needs to know that all the sacrifices he’s made and the losses he’s endured weren’t in vain. He needs hope.
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow 407 Review: “Brotherhood” Means Better Together 
By: Alisha Bjorklund November 19, 2015
http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2015/11/arrow-407-review-brotherhood/

I give this episode 9 out of 10. It was another fantastic episode, and while it may not have been the most shocking of the season, it did what Arrow needed at this point: it stopped building up Legends of Tomorrow and went back to the core of the show, the team being better together. It may seem cliché, but there really is no I in team, and having the support of those around him helped Diggle get through the earth-shattering truth of his brother being alive and not the man he thought he was. And although this episode didn’t resolve everything between the Diggle brothers, it provided a solid foundation to explore and conclude their issues in upcoming episodes.
Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

Arrow, Ep. 4.07, “Brotherhood”
Randy Dankievitch  November 19, 2015
http://www.popoptiq.com/arrow-season-4-episode-7-brotherhood/

It gives Arrow a pathos it has direly lacked this season: for the first time this season, it really felt like Arrow was concerned about Arrow, and not pushing other characters around for Legends of Tomorrow (save for Ray dropping hints about needing to “find himself”, only the 48th time we’ve heard that on this show and The Flash so far this season).
*  *  *
For the most part, however, “Brotherhood” benefits from having its feet lodged firmly in the present for a moment, concerned with the priorities of its main characters rather than entrenched in the origin stories of others...
*  *  *
This episode was directed by James Bamford, longtime stunt choreographer on Arrow. With it come some uncharacteristically long shots during fight scenes, which are pleasant enough, but feel out of sync with the show’s normal visual tone, as well as paling in comparison to both Banshee and Daredevil episodes from this year. Still – it’s fun to see some kinetic fight sequences on this show.

Although… those fight sequences do come at the cost of the Ghosts, who’ve gone from unstoppable monsters to regular ol’ idiot bad guy fodder in this episode.
 

One more thought on the fight scenes: ’twas painfully obvious by Speedy’s lowered head there was a stunt double used in her long shot – which is understandable, but completely ruins the moment every time the camera looks straight on at the top of her head. (oh, and since when was Laurel unhittable as Canary? She’s been getting the shit beat out of her all season!).
*  *  *
Remember when Lyla was something other than a lame housewife?

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tv echo

tv echo

Arrow Review: “Brotherhood”(Episode 4.07)
By Mark Rozeman  |  November 19, 2015  |  5:50pm
http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/11/arrow-review-brotherhood.html

Speaking of battles, it’s hard not to notice a major shift in how the fight scenes are filmed this time around. Rather than the traditional editing, the scenes are allowed to play out in longer sequences, with the camera dancing around to capture the actors as they move to different locations. This makes more sense when one learns that the episode was directed by noted stuntman, James Bamford. As last year’s John Wick so effectively demonstrated, stuntman-turned-directors like to linger on scenes as long as possible, as it allows the actual choreography to take front and center, as opposed to having the sequence chopped into little bits. Of course, this has its downsides, as staying on the actors reveals some of the more awkward moments of the choreography (there’s definitely one or two moments where you can tell they are not actually hitting their targets). In the long run, it’s a nice shakeup to the show’s aesthetic and here’s hoping it will not stand as a one-time experiment.
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tv echo

tv echo

Arrow recap: Darhk's plans suddenly become personal in 'Brotherhood'
James Queally  NOVEMBER 19, 2015, 2:41 PM
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-arrow-brotherhood-review-20151119-story.html

The series that kick-started CW’s attempt to create an episodic live-action comic book universe had become almost slavishly devoted to constructing that world in recent weeks, doing its best to set up January’s “Legends of Tomorrow” pilot while leaving the story of Star City on a hamster wheel.
 

Now, with Ray Palmer no longer the size of a fingernail and Sara Lance no longer dead, “Arrow” was able to spend at least one week focusing inward on the various threats to the Emerald Archer and his team in “Brotherhood” — and boy, did it deliver.
*  *  *
The biggest problem with “Arrow” lately has been crowding. While the series’ writing team has done well to give each member of Team Arrow conflicts that are both linked to and separate from the Damien Darhk issue, none of them seemed to have the proper room to breathe when bunched in with the Legends obligations.
 

That is no longer a problem in “Brotherhood.” Thea’s bloodlust, Diggle’s hunt for his brother, Oliver’s pursuit of political office and even the recently returned Ray Palmer’s existential crisis all manage to take up just the right amount of screen time in the episode, with each character getting important personal moments from the various threads while tying everything back to the terror that is Damien Darhk.
*  *  *
> “Sick” — Laurel’s response to Felicity’s X-ray camera invention thing. The Black Canary’s ability to annoy is possibly a larger threat to Star City than Darhk.

> Also, not to pick nits, but if Felicity’s cameras can see through the Ghosts’ masks, shouldn’t she be able to identify all of Darhk’s foot soldiers? Meaning they can find out who they are and unearth his plans?

> The fight scene choreography was great here, especially during the closing battle at Darhk’s base. The camera work on the Thea-Andrew Diggle fisticuffs seemed to evoke parts of the tracking shot in “Daredevil” that made everyone’s head spin. No, it wasn’t as good, Internet; please don’t kill me.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Arrow 407 Review: “Brotherhood” Means Better Together 

By: Alisha Bjorklund November 19, 2015

http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2015/11/arrow-407-review-brotherhood/

9 out of 10 is very generous. But if you look at the quote you listed about it focusing back on TA and ARROW storylines then in that regard it was a good transitional episode to move the ARROW story & characters back to its core and away from LoT. Also considering the next episode will be the big LoT Crossover Prequel then it was a decent bookmark episode to get TA back on track before they have to pause and focus on the Hawks.

Edited by kismet
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Yes, some of the positive reviews had more to do with the reduction of LoT setup...

 

Arrow: Brotherhood review
Mike Cecchini 11/18/2015 at 10:16PM
http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/arrow/250683/arrow-brotherhood-review

Well, would ya look at that. Another episode with no villain of the week. More importantly, an episode of Arrow that's actually an episode of Arrow, and not a setup for Legends of Tomorrow (which I'm looking forward to in a completely ridiculous way). Most importantly, it's the second excellent episode in a row, and it's been a while since this series has delivered back to back exceptional entries.
*  *  *
I can't believe I'm saying this, but...I'm completely on board with Oliver's mayoral campaign now.... The fact that it no longer feels like the strange whim of a disturbed individual (for real, Ollie is a vigilante after all), but something that's actually going to help move the main conflict forward in a profound way doesn't hurt, either. Okay, fine, Felicity's trademark "calling Ollie out on shit" and helping put into words why this campaign is something that should matter helped bring me around, too. Look, I'm easily convinced by Felicity Smoak, okay? Don't judge me.
*  *  *
Oh, and did I mention the action? "Brotherhood" probably delivered the slickest superhero action we've seen on the show this year. Even the stuff that didn't involve actual fighting just looked great. The Green Arrow/Diggle synchronized leap into battle was one little moment, as was that really great looking "follow Black Canary all the way down her jump" shot. And the full blown rumble at the end that brought ATOM into the battle was vintage stuff, and probably the best/most agile we've seen Ray look in full armor since he was introduced.
Edited by tv echo
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looptab

looptab

(edited)

“Sick” — Laurel’s response to Felicity’s X-ray camera invention thing. The Black Canary’s ability to annoy is possibly a larger threat to Star City than Darhk.

This bothered me as well. It didn't seem like something Laurel would say, I could see it as more as a Thea comment. Edited by looptab
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tv echo

tv echo

‘Arrow’ 4×07 Review: Brothers In Arms and For Life
NOVEMBER 19, 2015
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-4x07-review-brothers-in-arms-and-in-life/

One of my favorite things about Oliver and Felicity is how Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards play the relationship, especially Stephen and the way that Oliver looks at Felicity like she is his sun, his moon, his stars, his everything. And she is. It’s incredible how much Stephen as Oliver can convey with just one look at Felicity how much he loves her. That’s something you can’t force with actors, it comes as a result of the natural chemistry between them, which Stephen and Emily have in spades. Then you get moments where Felicity mentions Oliver clad in leather and tying people up and get a horrified passerby’s reaction, and it just shows the natural chemistry between Stephen and Emily. All of their scenes jump off the screen, whether it’s romantic or playful. Their scenes have never seemed forced, and they never will.
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kismet

kismet

Sick works for me for LL because it sound like she is trying to hard to be cool. And for me LL trying too hard to be anything is kind of her character's thing.

 

It's not sarcasm. And it's definitely not on the level of deadpan humor that both Dig & Roy delivered in previous seasons.

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Guest

Guest

Haha. I thought Thea was the one who said 'Sick.' It didn't even sound like something Laurel would ever say (I looked away from the screen as she said it). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Password

Password

Haha. I thought Thea was the one who said 'Sick.' It didn't even sound like something Laurel would ever say (I looked away from the screen as she said it). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That time @Angel12d has zero time for Laurel Lance.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

Remember Jennifer Crusie? She apparently likes Arrow again :p

 

http://arghink.com/2015/11/arrow-thursday-and-were-back/

 

I can’t believe it. They raised Arrow from the dead. There must be a Lazarus Pit in the Writer’s Room.

It’s damn hard to get a reader or viewer back once you’ve disappointed him or her, let alone stretched that disappointment over an entire season (or season and a half), but Arrow is back, and not just because John Constantine stopped by to get Sara’s soul out of the Hot Tub in Hell or Donna Smoak’s been sending texts to Oliver with teardrop emojis. It’s as if the writers looked up and said, “Wait, how do we tell a good story again?” and put the train back on the rails. There’s still evidence of the wreck, but it is once again a damn good ride. So of course I’ve been trying to figure out how they did it. My conclusion: they corrected seven key story elements that had either gone off track or never been on track at all. Needless to say, massive spoilers ahead.

 

She delves into it a bit more by breaking it down on how Arrow improved (with the 7 key story elements) and where it still needs to improve. It's actually a very interesting read. 

 

The 7 key story elements are:

  1. Your story lives or dies with its protagonist.
  2. Your main plot is your main focus; everything else should feed into that, not get in its way.
  3. Your story moves or stagnates with your antagonist.
  4. Your story needs to be fun for the reader/viewer.
  5. Your characters’ relationships should be strong motivators for their actions and the glue that holds their community together.
  6. You need change to keep a long-running story vibrant and engaging.
  7. Your theme has to be inherent in the story line, coded not stated.

 

Where they need to improve:

  1. Stay in the now of the story (no more flashbacks)
  2. Don’t write characters that are boring or, worse, irritating when you think they’re charming (Write Laurel off of the show)
Edited by wonderwall
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