The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[EmilyBettFan]

She was not kicking ass. I know they all have stunt doubles but I never believed Laurel when she was fighting. I always kept thinking there's the stunt double. Same with Thea.

Edited April 19, 2016 by EmilyBettFan

[Sakura12]

I've noticed in the few episodes I watched that they've been particularly bad at switching between stunt double and actress with Laurel and Thea. 

[BkWurm1]

Not all chatecters have a vocal majority. Just like some of the biggest shows don't have a very vocal fan base but they have the numbers.

I know shows like NCIS have crazy numbers for viewership but I feel sometimes like the majority of those viewers wouldn't give a damn if the show was cancelled.  Just a shrug while they wait for whatever CBS puts on in its place. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by BkWurm1

[looptab]

She and I both imagine that OTA and Thea were the people on Stephens list. They were the only people safe from being killed. Hence we have the same list.

Ahh, so it was your lists you were talking about! Haha got it. 

[tv echo]

jbuffyangel wrote an open letter to Arrow EPs/writers to counteract all the vitriol they've received recently - it's a good read (but lengthy, so I've only quoted a few portions)....

 

Subject: A Letter of Thanks to the Writers and Creators of "Arrow"
From: Jen (Jbuffyangel)
Date: 19 Apr 2016
http://www.opnlttr.com/letter/letter-thanks-writers-and-creators-arrow

Admittedly I knew nothing about the Green Arrow and, while I understand the premise of Arrow is an origin story for this comic book character, for me, Arrow is about saving a man's soul. I enjoyed the crisp pacing and action as much as any other fan, but I fell in love with Arrow because of the story. Oliver Queen and his relationships always mattered more to me than his skill with a bow and arrow.
*  *  *
While I enjoyed Season 1 of Arrow, the one aspect of the show that was lacking for me was the love story. This isn't a reflection on Oliver or Laurel as individual characters because I happen to like them both very much. I did not, however, enjoy the two characters together. Arrow is quite reminiscent of the Odyssey, especially in Season 1. Odysseus is a complex character like Oliver Queen and they share many similarities. In my personal opinion, however, the one similarity we could have skipped was the cheating... especially with sisters. Just my two cents.
 

A big part of a hero's journey is the hero's great love. I was frustrated because I wasn't emotionally investing in Oliver Queen's love story with Laurel Lance. Then, in episode 3, Oliver brought a bullet-ridden computer to Felicity Smoak. The chemistry between Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards was so palpable it almost felt like magic. Oliver smiled, and I distinctly remember thinking, "Oh, there you are Oliver."
 

... When Oliver smiled at Felicity I could see, for the first time, The Green Arrow. I could see the hero you were creating because I could truly see the depth of his warmth and goodness. I could see his humanity.
*  *  *
Felicity Smoak is a rare gem in the creative world. She loves deeply, passionately and intensely with utter faith and devotion. She also continues to love herself. Felicity is a multifaceted, layered character. The same as Oliver. You explore the gamut of human emotions in Felicity. The same as Oliver. She's not an archetype. She's a human being. It's what makes her a strong female character.
*  *  *
Emily is one of those rare actresses who has chemistry with almost everyone, but there is something special between her and Stephen. I often think she's the Lucy to his Ricky Ricardo. The funny woman versus the straight man routine, but it's deeper than that. Emily exudes a natural warmth and tenderness as Felicity Smoak. So much so she softens the cool and gruff Oliver Queen. It allows Stephen to display his natural warmth, which humanizes the damaged Oliver. It is a connection on which Oliver and Arrow survive. Not only is she the heart of the team, Felicity is the heart of the hero. Her masterful portrayal makes Emily the heart of Arrow. Oliver is lost without Felicity and Arrow would be lost without Emily.
*  *  *
In these three characters, Arrow found its heartbeat. Oliver, Diggle and Felicity are each a beat, and their relationships form the rhythm of the show....
*  *  *
... We don't control the story. You do. Our role is to receive the story. We are more than within our rights to politely share our disagreement (MARRYING NYSSA? REALLY???) or agreement (OLICITY WEDDING!!!! YAHOOO!!!!) but the decisions are yours to make. This is your vision of the Green Arrow. We, as audience members, only have two choices to make. Either accept your vision or turn the channel. It's that simple.

Edited April 20, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

HitFix interview with Lexi Alexander, who directed Arrow 404 (Beyond Redemption)...

 

Director Lexi Alexander: I get 'obsessive' when directing superhero projects
By David Eckstein | Tuesday, Apr 19, 2016 4:38 PM
http://www.hitfix.com/news/director-lexi-alexander-i-get-obsessive-when-directing-superhero-projects

The 41-year-old Alexander is unique in that she’s probably the only Oscar-nominated director who was also a world champion martial artist. The German-born Alexander has been behind the camera for the 2008 movie Punisher: War Zone, and in more recent days, episodes of both Supergirl and Arrow (“I’m booked for another superhero show, but I’m not allowed to say,” she noted).
*  *  *
How much do you know about the universe before you direct a show like Arrow or Supergirl?
With Supergirl, I kind of grew up with it and…it’s also such a well-known story. So I didn’t have to completely read up on Supergirl because I obviously watched the episodes that happened before the episode I was directing. Arrow I had to read everything. I knew nothing about Arrow. 
*  *  *
Is there a particular tone that you try to achieve?
I’m trying to match what the creators have established…On the TV shows, the keeper of the tone is really the showrunner. They have to have it figured out before the show starts and they’re in charge. [This is] unlike the movie where I’m in charge of that.
 

On Arrow…that’s a show that’s in its fourth season, so they’ve created the world. They’ve created the tone and you don’t want to mess with that unless somebody actually gives you exact instructions.  On a show like that you can maybe try to add something to the look, try to add as much as you can but stay in the world they’ve created. 
*  *  *
What do you think of the proliferation of superhero projects?
I think we’re going to get more…I hope that we branch out into some of the lesser-known publishers…I think there is something very, very tempting and profitable about this whole comic book thing and I don’t think we’re stopping at all.  I think TV will get much heavier.

[tv echo]

Smoak & Arrow retweeted this Sky 1 tweet, so I dug more into Sky's DC Fancast shows.  It's a London-based 'on demand' fan show covering Sky's DC Comics TV shows, that was launched in March 2016 and is moderated by Rick Edwards...

 

Rick: "Felicity... you're the heart and soul of the team!"

Sky 1 ‏@sky1
Last week on #Arrow: Felicity is gone! Is love really dead for #Olicity? #SkyDC
[video clip]
11:39 AM - 20 Apr 2016

https://twitter.com/sky1/status/722857343252213760
Longer version: https://twitter.com/LaurenKitsonx/status/705709401592733696

 

DC Fancast's interview with SA on Mar. 4, 2016 [VIDEOS]...
https://amellynation.com/2016/03/04/new-videos-of-stephen-amells-interview-with-dc-fancast-on-sky-1/

 

DC Fancast Info:
http://www.warnerbros.com/studio/news/sky-launches-dc-fancast-exclusively-demand-catch-and-sky-go

 

DC Fancast Promo
Published on Mar 3, 2016, by Sky 1

Edited April 20, 2016 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

Must be a slow news day if ET Canada is digging up something from 3 months ago. I had to double check the post date to make sure this was actually posted today.

 

Stephen Amell Brings The Stanley Cup To The 'Arrow' Set

 

Probably the most interesting thing I got from the video (SA talking about hockey and the Stanley Cup for 3 minutes) was that the Diggle apartment set is attached to Oliver and Felicity's loft set. They're neighbors!

[BkWurm1]

After I read the open letter by BuffyAngel this other open letter on the same site popped up and it's a very interesting perspective not only on Arrow but on the importance of television in general.  I'll just post a few highlights.

 

Subject: Thank you, Arrow

From: Menna Zahra

Date: 30 Mar 2016

http://www.opnlttr.com/letter/thank-you-arrow

I've always had a special connection to television. I lived in a country that viewed women's rights as a mere suggestion that they weren't too fond off. We were treated as second class citizens and doomed to a destiny of an arranged marriage and raising a family. I lost my father there and because that country is structured the way it is, to this day I can't even visit his grave. I'm not sharing this for sympathy. I'm sharing this to share one of a million stories of why television is more than just a fictional thing that you turn on when you're bored. To some people, as it was to me, television is an escape. It's an outlet into a freedom that you long to have because the current world you live in is not somewhere you want to stay. That's how my connection to television began. After my father died, I spent 3 months watching nothing but Friends.

[...]

Then I rewatched Buffy, and this is where I learned the importance of strong female role models. I was in a country that did nothing but tell me that women are good for nothing but carrying babies. But here I was, watching this show that was telling me women can be heroes.

[...]

I know I wouldn't have believed in myself enough to be where I am today if it wasn't for that message.

This is all just to showcase one thing. Representation matters. It matters SO much. I'm now on a presidential scholarship to one of the top private schools in the country BECAUSE of that representation. To SO many people, television isn't just what you enjoy doing on your Wednesday night, it's an emotional attachment.

[...]

Felicity Smoak is such an important character to me because she is something I had no idea was missing from our screens, but once the audience saw her, they realized that hey, we need this. Why hasn't this existed before? Felicity Smoak is a female hero in her own right. A female hero that you can encounter every day in your life. A female hero that I RELATE to on every level.

 

I'm someone who prides herself entirely on her brains. I can't punch someone in the face really hard but I sure as hell can psychoanalyze the crap out of them. I never knew how lacking television was in that area until Felicity Smoak was introduced. Because not only is she smart, she's not portrayed as a neurotic genius who is ONLY there to be smart. She's multi-dimensional, and that happens SO SO rarely on television that I still smile in pride as I watch her character development. Who has a woman in their life that only IS one thing? You can only do computers. You have to look and fit the role of a neurotic nerd. You can only do kickboxing. You have to look and fit the stereotype of an athletic woman. No no no no no. Women AREN'T this one dimension that TV shows portray them to be. And Felicity Smoak isn't either and the show did such a beautiful job making this character someone that will be watched years from now when all the dust has settled and viewed as an incredibly powerful representation of real women. Real women cry. Real women have emotions. Real women get hurt. Real women can be smart and wear bright lipstick and dresses at the same time. Real women can be CEOs but in successful, healthy relationships at the same time. And Felicity Smoak is one of the VERY first times I ever saw that showcased so powerfully on television.

[...]

Because SO many of us see ourselves in Felicity Smoak because it is SO rare to see a representation of a woman that showcases her full range of emotion and how women TRULY are in real life, that when you come across one you hold onto it tooth and nail and an attack on her becomes an attack on you. Why is she so dramatic? Why did she leave him? Why is she this why is she that?

Why? Because that's the most realistic portrayal.

Felicity Smoak on so many occasions has gotten attacked for doing what ANY woman with a single iota of self-respect would do in the same situation. She cried when the man she loved died, just like I cried when my father died. She took off her ring when she found out the man she loved had a secret child that he knew about and didn't tell her, just like ANY woman in her situation would.

Actually can we just talk about that for a second. Can you even IMAGINE finding out your fiance has been keeping a SON from you and sticking around? Because I sure as hell can't. No matter how much I love him. And no matter what excuses he had since the show did a good job showing how Thea and Barry and Malcolm knowing actually affected her. And I don't know if anyone claiming that she should get over it has been even watching the show or putting themselves in a character's shoes because I don't understand how that's even an argument that exists.

[...]

That's why Felicity Smoak and Oliver Queen finding each other is so important to me. Because she's a genius CEO but she's also a woman who fell in love with a man and the show decided ok she can BE both those things. She doesn't have to be of a specific type of woman to fall in love with a specific type of man. That's not how it happens in real life, and that's not how it happened on Arrow.

[...]

Oliver Queen isn't perfect. Felicity Smoak isn't perfect (but some people like to call her a Mary-Sue then point out her flaws so I'm not entirely positive which it is). Oliver Queen is a realistic portrayal of a man put in an unrealistic situation. Felicity Smoak is a realistic portrayal of a woman (literally that's it. that's what's got everyone riled tf up). Olicity is the perfectly imperfect union of what a healthy adult relationship looks like. And that's a beautiful example to set, and it's so enlightening to watch.

Literally every single person complaining didn't WANT realistic.

 

 

 

 

[tv echo]

What a beautiful letter by Menna Zahra!  Thank you for that.

[SleepDeprived]

Not sure if this goes here but I don't know where else it could go so...

 

I was looking through the scheduled shows on our DVR and noticed that Katie Cassidy's name has already been removed from the Cast list for Arrow. Does the CW/WB have any say on when the providers update those blurb/synopsis things? 'Cause, otherwise, someone on AT&T is pretty updated on the show (a fan?) and changed that cast list really fast.

 

I looked through the other shows we have scheduled on there and there are some whose cast members have long since been gone/their characters killed off and yet the actors'/actress' names (dude that played Finn on 'The 100', the one that played that King on 'Reign', Evelyne Brochu from 'Orphan Black') are still on the Cast list for AT&T's summary thing. Now that I think about it, I seem to remember it took a while before Colton's name was removed by AT&T in S3... Anyway, I thought that's kinda interesting.

[Morrigan2575]

She's still listed on my DirectTV blurbs.

She really shouldn't be removed from the credits until S5.

[SleepDeprived]

^ I agree. I mean, regardless of her character's death, KC still is a regular for S4 of Arrow so her name should still be there. Especially, since, technically, her last episode will be next week. But, someone on AT&T very hastily removed it, I guess? I dunno. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Guest]

I hope this is the right thread... MG just retweeted this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/04/enough-with-the-true-canon/477837/

 

I think it's already been posted here but it's a really good read and a pretty pointed statement from MG if ever I saw one. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by Guest

[SmallScreenDiva]

I clapped when I saw Guggenheim's tweet: "Enough With the Canon"

[statsgirl]

I liked Kevin Smith's line best: Zach Snyder didn't read the Batman comics. He read one Batman comic.

 

 

Evelyne Brochu from 'Orphan Black')

 

The Orphan Black EPs are still teasing that Delphine may not be dead. Who knows.

Edited April 23, 2016 by statsgirl

[Primal Slayer]

I hope this is the right thread... MG just retweeted this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/04/enough-with-the-true-canon/477837/

 

I think it's already been posted here but it's a really good read and a pretty pointed statement from MG if ever I saw one. 

Imo, thats one of the main reasons why Laurel bit the dust just so he could send a message. Though they don't have a problem with it when it comes to them getting that initial hype and audience.

 

But every character has a certain amount of canon. You don't have a Batman that is Bruce Wayne who doesnt lose his parents and isn't a billionaire and is jolly go lucky. Can't have a Superman whose Krypton doesn't explode. Every character has a baseline and you can add to it but if you want to do a drastic change, it better be a good one.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[Guest]

Imo, thats one of the main reasons why Laurel bit the dust just so he could send a message. Though they don't have a problem with it when it comes to them getting that initial hype and audience.

I won't begin to speculate why they chose Laurel. I suspect it was a number of reasons tbh.

But I'm not sure what you mean by the second part? That comic canon was responsible for the hype and audience of the show when it started?

[Primal Slayer]

They brought in Dinah Laurel Lance at the beginning of Arrow because of the characters canon relationship with Oliver Queen. They wanted that hype by teasing that relationship. They talked down Oliver becoming the canon Green Arrow sometime down the road, Laurel becoming the canon Black Canary. Even now they have Oliver heading towards becoming Mayor of Starling City just as his comic counterpart was mayor of Starling City. Olivers womanizing ways influenced how they wrote the character in the beginning of the show.

[AyChihuahua]

They've done all kinds of kooky things with Batman, including making Bruce the one who was killed and his father Batman and making him an actual half-bat, half-man. "Comic canon" is an absurd idea.

[thegirlsleuth]

MG lobs a molotov cocktail into fandom and will now probably be offline, celebrating the Jewish high holy days.  Nicely timed, Guggenheim.

[Guest]

I mean, yes, they established certain things that were from comic canon but pretty early on they diverted and set their own path. That's evident in most things on this show. And I don't think Arrow's audience is made up of mostly comic fans so I'm not sure where the hype would come in, unless I'm mistaking what you're saying.

I do think that their version of Dinah/BC didn't work the way they originally intended/hoped for though.

[Primal Slayer]

One off stories yet the main Batman stories all revolved around Bruce Wayne who lost his parents as a child which started him on his journey to becoming Batman. Now who killed his parents may have changed over time but the basic premise always stuck. All the Batman films, animated series, tv shows all follow the same general guideline. Comic canon is a thing that has tested to succeed.

I mean, yes, they established certain things that were from comic canon but pretty early on they diverted and set their own path. That's evident in most things on this show. And I don't think Arrow's audience is made up of mostly comic fans so I'm not sure where the hype would come in, unless I'm mistaking what you're saying.

I do think that their version of Dinah/BC didn't work the way they originally intended/hoped for though.

The initial hype for the series was because of where this show started, the comics. Comic characters/superheroes have become very popular in the last 10 years, just like Vampires had their day for a while. The Flash is highly popular because of his established comic book/superhero status, not because of the stellar writing.  

[Guest]

But how do you explain the fact that I'd never heard of Green Arrow in my life and I started watching this show? I knew nothing of the hype at all and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

The main "canon" in the Arrow pilot is how much they ripped off Batman Begins, to be honest.

I also honestly don't understand what's with this obsession with what the pilot established. Serialized tv shows evolve regardless of being an adaptation, because television >>>>>>>> because original canon.

Edited April 23, 2016 by dtissagirl

[NumberCruncher]

I had no idea who the Green Arrow or Black Canary were when I started watching Arrow either.  I saw the S1 promo poster with a shirtless hot guy and thought I'd give it a try. /shallow

[Primal Slayer]

But how do you explain the fact that I'd never heard of Green Arrow in my life and I started watching this show? I knew nothing of the hype at all and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

I never said that every single viewer knew of the character but the hype for the series, the media coverage was because of where these characters came from. We don't get bogged down with Vampire shows all at once just because it's a coincidence, it is because it was the new "IN" thing and networks wanted to capitalize off of that initial success with Twilight and later True Blood which helped give birth to The Vampire Diaries. Arrow/Flash teaming up was big because it is two superheroes teaming up which people love to see, it got both shows a lot of media cover, magazine covers, etc..

[Chaser]

I hope I explain this right.

I agree that the comic aspect was a lot of the hype because comic movies were huge, however I don't believe the audience was all about the details of the GA comics. Green Arrow is not a mainstream comic hero. I bet the average viewer had no idea the backstory and the main love Interest of GA. The average viewer was probably like "Hey comics! And it's kind of like Batman!"

Edited April 23, 2016 by Chaser

[lemotomato]

If the CW and WB thought that Arrow would be successful by attracting comic Green Arrow and Black Canary fans, they would have started season 1 with Oliver dressed in tights, wearing a goatee and a funny hat, and Laurel wearing fishnets. Instead, they "borrowed" as much as they could get away with from Nolan's Batman, right down to making LL a lawyer. They wanted the Batman *movie* audience, not even the comic Batman audience. So no, MG and the show owe nothing to those who watch the show expecting comic GA/BC

Edited April 23, 2016 by lemotomato

[Guest]

I never said that every single viewer knew of the character but the hype for the series, the media coverage was because of where these characters came from. We don't get bogged down with Vampire shows all at once just because it's a coincidence, it is because it was the new "IN" thing and networks wanted to capitalize off of that initial success with Twilight and later True Blood which helped give birth to The Vampire Diaries. Arrow/Flash teaming up was big because it is two superheroes teaming up which people love to see, it got both shows a lot of media cover, magazine covers, etc..

Okay...? But just because some of the hype came from where these characters originated from doesn't mean they have to follow it verbatim, which is the point of that original article.

[dtissagirl]

A whole lot of the EPs interviews from before the show started were about how very little established canon Green Arrow had, and how excited they were about that.

[Primal Slayer]

Okay...? But just because some of the hype came from where these characters originated from doesn't mean they have to follow it verbatim, which is the point of that original article.

Of course they don't have to follow it to the t but if you going to veer from it, it at least better be good. But like I said, they didn't have a problem teasing that canon at the beginning of the show. If they want to do something dramatically different, it has to good  and if it is good enough then there won't be as much uproar but if it isnt then people will look at where the material came from and crave for that material to be adapted more closely. It's like TWD, Carole died very early on in the comics but took a drastically different turn in the show and it was for the better, nothing to really complain about there as opposed to Andrea who they bastardized and veered far from the character in the comics that people didn't enjoy her. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

From what I remember of the promotions from before the pilot (admittedly, not much) they were less about Green Arrow the comic book character and more about being sort of a Jason Bourne for TV. But with much better abs. 

[AyChihuahua]

I mean, yes, they established certain things that were from comic canon but pretty early on they diverted and set their own path. That's evident in most things on this show. And I don't think Arrow's audience is made up of mostly comic fans so I'm not sure where the hype would come in, unless I'm mistaking what you're saying.

I do think that their version of Dinah/BC didn't work the way they originally intended/hoped for though.

It's basically mathematically impossible for anywhere NEAR the majority of the audience to be made of up of comic fans. The comics sell like crap. Like 2% of even a TERRIBLE Arrow week.

[AyChihuahua]

Of course they don't have to follow it to the t but if you going to veer from it, it at least better be good. But like I said, they didn't have a problem teasing that canon at the beginning of the show. If they want to do something dramatically different, it has to good  and if it is good enough then there won't be as much uproar but if it isnt then people will look at where the material came from and crave for that material to be adapted more closely. It's like TWD, Carole died very early on in the comics but took a drastically different turn in the show and it was for the better, nothing to really complain about there as opposed to Andrea who they bastardized and veered far from the character in the comics that people didn't enjoy her. 

This has been said a lot, but a lot of that is because of actual ACTORS portraying the characters, as opposed to drawings on a page. The Carol actress is awesome, thus she got a lot more to do. The Andrea actress was average at best. KC is terrible as an action heroine. She's totally uncoordinated and absolutely ridiculous in the role of BC. She was screwed as Laurel due to the writing and chemistry, but she was screwed as BC due to her own very severe limitations. She literally can't throw a punch or twirl her stick believably, therefore she is totally not believable as an action heroine. Comics are TOTALLY different than film. It's the nature of the medium, and the EPs had to roll with what they got. 

 

To this day I think someone like Candice Patton could have softened LL's hard edges and, assuming she had chemistry with SA, convinced them to stick with the original plan. The problem is, as always, that actors actually add a LOT to ANY role. It's not as if a stick figure speaking predetermined lines wins Oscars. Acting is an art, that actually matters to the medium, which is simply not the case with comic books which HAVE NO ACTORS.

Edited April 23, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

I liked the Green Arrow from Smallville and I liked that the CW handled it like Arrow like Batman.

I do not care about the Black Canary. Never have not really. But I love Sara Lance as the Arrow's Black Canary.

I'm the really odd duck viewer.

[Guest]

I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree because I'm not sure I agree with the idea that people will only like the show/there won't be much uproar if it veers away from comic canon in a good way. Who decides which is a good way? That implies that comic book fans have to give a seal of approval, which is unfair. Not everyone watches this show hoping for comic canon and weighing story choices against that comic canon either.

Anyway, I'll leave it there because I have a feeling we'll be going in circles soon, haha!

[Sakura12]

I only knew of Green Arrow from Smallville. He's no where near the same level as Batman and Superman, where any random person you ask will most likely know who they are. 

 

Black Canary is even less known. As for the comic canon argument, Arrow's Laurel Lance was nothing like Black Canary from the comics, she had none of the skills or traits. She didn't even have the personality of the BC. I can't be upset at her death since all she was, was some woman that happened to share a name with a comic character. 

 

If we are going to go by comic canon which for me means someone embodying the spirit of the character than Sara Lance was the Black Canary. On LoT she's becoming more and more Dinah like. 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Sakura12

[Primal Slayer]

This has been said a lot, but a lot of that is because of actual ACTORS portraying the characters, as opposed to drawings on a page. The Carol actress is awesome, thus she got a lot more to do. The Andrea actress was average at best. KC is terrible as an action heroine. She's totally uncoordinated and absolutely ridiculous in the role of BC. She was screwed as Laurel due to the writing and chemistry, but she was screwed as BC due to her own very severe limitations. She literally can't throw a punch or twirl her stick believably, therefore she is totally not believable as an action heroine. Comics are TOTALLY different than film. It's the nature of the medium, and the EPs had to roll with what they got. 

 

To this day I think someone like Candice Patton could have softened LL's hard edges and, assuming she had chemistry with SA, convinced them to stick with the original plan. The problem is, as always, that actors actually add a LOT to ANY role. It's not as if a stick figure speaking predetermined lines wins Oscars. Acting is an art, that actually matters to the medium, which is simply not the case with comic books which HAVE NO ACTORS.

The Carol actress is great but they also gave her good material, I was fine with Andreas actress but they also wrote the character terribly where not that many people would've been able to salvage the material imo. If they had written Carol as they had Andrea the reception probably wouldn't have been as great. They took a character who evolved into a badass in the comics and turned her into a constant screw up in the show just as Arrow took Laurel from a badass in the comics and downgraded her to a damsel love interest for nearly 2 seasons of the show. If TWD had done something similar to a character like Michonne, there would be uproar. MG and co. shouldn't have been surprised when they got constant complaints and wanting to see the character be truer to her comic counterpart. Just as they moved away from a L/O romance, replace that with them being close confidants and it basically gets the job done which they started to do towards the end of S4 but it doesn't matter now for obvious reasons.

[ComicFan777]

One off stories yet the main Batman stories all revolved around Bruce Wayne who lost his parents as a child which started him on his journey to becoming Batman. Now who killed his parents may have changed over time but the basic premise always stuck. All the Batman films, animated series, tv shows all follow the same general guideline. Comic canon is a thing that has tested to succeed.

 

Just as you said that Batman origins start with losing his parents which shapes the way he is and branches off from there, the Green Arrow was shaped by his time stranded on the island and branches off from there.

 

The writers maintained the Green Arrow's origin story just like Batman losing his parents shaped his hero journey.  There have been standalone comics where Oliver became Green Arrow without Black Canary, so I don't really see why Oliver Queen of Arrow would need to include the Black Canary.

[Primal Slayer]

I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree because I'm not sure I agree with the idea that people will only like the show/there won't be much uproar if it veers away from comic canon in a good way. Who decides which is a good way? That implies that comic book fans have to give a seal of approval, which is unfair. Not everyone watches this show hoping for comic canon and weighing story choices against that comic canon either.

Anyway, I'll leave it there because I have a feeling we'll be going in circles soon, haha!

To me it is simple, it is good to take a "weak" character like Carol in the comics and make her into a confidant badass in the tv show. It is weak to take a badass character that was Dinah Laurel Lance in the comics and downgrade her to a damsel/love interest who is constantly screwing up. 

[apinknightmare]

Arrow always gets ribbed for being Batman lite - if Oliver isn't the same as he is in the comics, why on earth would anyone expect Laurel to be?

[Morrigan2575]

Ever notice how the "comic canon" argument only applies to GA/BC as a couple?

Honestly any time I see someone online say "comic canon" I just substitute Lauiver shipper.

[Primal Slayer]

Just as you said that Batman origins start with losing his parents which shapes the way he is and branches off from there, the Green Arrow was shaped by his time stranded on the island and branches off from there.

 

The writers maintained the Green Arrow's origin story just like Batman losing his parents shaped his hero journey.  There have been standalone comics where Oliver became Green Arrow without Black Canary, so I don't really see why Oliver Queen of Arrow would need to include the Black Canary.

Green Arrow was always Green Arrow without Black Canary. They met as fully formed superheroes but it was the writers who decided to add her in there at the beginning of the show. But she is a major character in Green Arrows overall story so her showing up at some point would've made sense. Just like they decided to add Iris into the beginning of Barrys and sideline their romance since they don't want to hit that "endgame" so soon. Thank god Smallville didn't add Lois at the start and keep playing the "will they, won't they" for the entire 11 years.

Ever notice how the "comic canon" argument only applies to GA/BC as a couple?

Honestly any time I see someone online say "comic canon" I just substitute Lauiver shipper.

It is used for Clark/Lois, Barry/Iris, it isn't something that is strictly for GA/BC.

Arrow always gets ribbed for being Batman lite - if Oliver isn't the same as he is in the comics, why on earth would anyone expect Laurel to be?

Oliver is on on his way to becoming like he is on the comics. But I don't see them making Oliver into a damsel needing constant saving. Depowering a woman isn't popular in todays world.

[Guest]

To me it is simple, it is good to take a "weak" character like Carol in the comics and make her into a confidant badass in the tv show. It is weak to take a badass character that was Dinah Laurel Lance in the comics and downgrade her to a damsel/love interest who is constantly screwing up.

Okay, this is my last post because circles but this is simple to you because you've read the comics. You're forming an opinion on how things should be because of the comics. And my point (and the original article which is what this whole discussion is about) is that you can't let that kind of expectation and assumption rule a TV show.

I agree they should have written Laurel better but that's not because she doesn't match her comic counterpart. That's just because she's a badly written TV character in general.

[apinknightmare]

Oliver is on on his way to becoming like he is on the comics. But I don't see them making Oliver into a damsel needing constant saving.

Did you watch any of the flashbacks in season 1 and 2? Even in the first flashback of this season he made a complete fool of himself trying to be a hero in Coast City.

[Primal Slayer]

Did you watch any of the flashbacks in season 1 and 2? Even in the first flashback of this season he made a complete fool of himself trying to be a hero in Coast City.

Wow flashbacks compared to the main narrative that is set in present day where he is already a badass? The flashbacks are just used to flesh out his journey and his character. It isn't the main story for him. 

[apinknightmare]

Wow flashbacks compared to the main narrative that is set in present day where he is already a badass? The flashbacks are just used to flesh out his journey and his character. It isn't the main story for him.

What are you talking about? We're watching Oliver's origin and we watched Laurel's. They both started out terrible and worked their way to the mask. Edited April 23, 2016 by apinknightmare

[lemotomato]

I can't imagine how utterly infuriating it must be for MG and the Arrow writers to be constantly hounded about how they don't write *their* stories based on what *other* people have written. Even comics writers have to deal with less grief when they do their own version of GA. The guy currently writing GA turned him into a *werewolf*. But sure, MG is the one that's screwing up GA

Edited April 23, 2016 by lemotomato

[Primal Slayer]

What are you talking about? We're watching Oliver's origin and we watched Laurel's. They both started out terrible and worked their way to the mask.

Oliver has been a badass since the show began. We get flashbacks to compliment the main story to help flesh out his character. Laurel started the show the complete opposite to Oliver.