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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Bad news here though is that they won't fix said fuck up until maybe episode 17... So.....................

How can they fix it?  Do you just mean have them reconcile?  To me, that's not fixing it, and I sincerely don't see how they can truly fix it at this point.  I mean, they can't revise 4.09 to have him

tell her before proposing

.

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I think these guys are too much into having fixed points for their big moments, and they're also very much tied into the CW's reliance on sweeps episodes guiding said fixed points.

 

BUT they can minimize BM and kid's presence of the show from now on, if the resounding 0% positive reviews on the storyline is deemed incentive enough.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

How can they fix it?  Do you just mean have them reconcile?  To me, that's not fixing it, and I sincerely don't see how they can truly fix it at this point.  I mean, they can't revise 4.09 to have him

tell her before proposing

.

 

Well I'm sure a lot of people don't feel as strongly as some do on this board... I myself don't think that Oliver is irredeemable. Nothing wrong with that. It might be ruined for you, but not everyone feels the same. 

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Kordi

Kordi

(edited)

I share your feelings to a high degree, @kes0704, but the question is: Are you going to continue watching the show? Are you going to tune in next Wednesday? Are you still curious how everything is going to play out? If yes, the writers have everything they want from you. They don't care if viewers enjoy or hate the show as long as they watch it. Because - if they watch it - they get the ratings they want. And if the ratings are decent, they get their money. And that's it. I hate the opinion "We don't mind if people hate Oliver or love him, we just don't want to see apathy", because it comes down to saying: "We don't mind if you feel entertained as long as we can make profit from your watching the show".

Edited by Kordi
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

Well I'm sure a lot of people don't feel as strongly as some do on this board... I myself don't think that Oliver is irredeemable. Nothing wrong with that. It might be ruined for you, but not everyone feels the same. 

I didn't mean that, I meant by "fix" do you mean have them reconcile?  Because if you can come up with a fix, I would genuinely love to know about it.  I'd even take more time travel shenanigans, alien mind control, or demon possession at this point. 

I share your feelings to a high degree, @kes0704, but the question is: Are you going to continue watching the show? Are you going to tune in next Wednesday? Are you still curious how everything is going to play out? If yes, the writers have everything they want from you. They don't care if viewers enjoy or hate the show as long as they watch it. Because - if they watch it - they get the ratings they want. And if the ratings are decent, they get their money. And that's it. I hate the opinion "We don't mind if people hate Oliver or love him, we just don't want to see apathy", because it comes down to saying: "We don't mind if you feel entertained as long as we can make profit from your watching the show".

I'm not watching except for the breakup episode.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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wonderwall

wonderwall

I didn't mean that, I meant by "fix" do you mean have them reconcile?

 

LOL NO. That's not what I mean by fixing. I mean fixing by actually making Oliver learn his lesson and grovel at Felicity's feet and actually verbalize that he will never lie to her again. Instead of a quick fix they'd move the fix up the timeline and actually spend time on it. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

LOL NO. That's not what I mean by fixing. I mean fixing by actually making Oliver learn his lesson and grovel at Felicity's feet and actually verbalize that he will never lie to her again. Instead of a quick fix they'd move the fix up the timeline and actually spend time on it. 

He'd better cook for her and give her foot rubs, too.  On-demand salmon ladder show.  Mani-pedis up the wazoo.  (I mean, I'll still hate him, but yeah, grovel away, dirtwad.) 

 

Ooh, sledgehammering the tire and there was one great early episode in which he used chains to raise a really big cement block.  It was AWESOME.  He has to do that for her, shirtless, obvs, whenever she says.

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

What I love the most is that all these reviewers have cut to the point and expressly stated that this storyline serves no purpose other than creating contrived, unnecessary relationship angst for Oliver and Felicity. I mean, honestly, did the writers think the audience and critics wouldn't see right through this bullshit?

What I find really interesting is that all the reviews--professional, 'shipper, and comic fans--are basically calling foul on the handling of the babymama storyline.  The comment sections are kind of funny, where even people who hate Olicity and want it to end think that the ultimatum/fight was out of character and completely contrived. Everyone could see past the story on screen to the writer's machinations and considers it bad writing. I suppose the writers deserve credit for uniting the fandom.

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bijoux

bijoux

What I find really interesting is that all the reviews--professional, 'shipper, and comic fans--are basically calling foul on the handling of the babymama storyline.  The comment sections are kind of funny, where even people who hate Olicity and want it to end think that the ultimatum/fight was out of character and completely contrived. Everyone could see past the story on screen to the writer's machinations and considers it bad writing. I suppose the writers deserve credit for uniting the fandom.

 

That means Oliver should be pleased as punch. United!

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I share your feelings to a high degree, @kes0704, but the question is: Are you going to continue watching the show? Are you going to tune in next Wednesday? Are you still curious how everything is going to play out? If yes, the writers have everything they want from you. They don't care if viewers enjoy or hate the show as long as they watch it. Because - if they watch it - they get the ratings they want. And if the ratings are decent, they get their money. And that's it. I hate the opinion "We don't mind if people hate Oliver or love him, we just don't want to see apathy", because it comes down to saying: "We don't mind if you feel entertained as long as we can make profit from your watching the show".

 

You are exactly right. I want to quit watching, I truly do, because I hate being jerked around, but I also love EBR/Felicity so I am torn. I think I'll go back to my S3 routine of reading the episode thread before watching. Again though, you're right that ratings are all that matter. Everyone on the planet can hate a show, but if the ratings are stable, the network would likely consider that a win. Having said that, I can't imagine a studio being thrilled at all the negative attention. I'm sure they'd prefer positive publicity.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

If no one is talking about the spin-off, it's their own damn fault for screwing up Oliver.

BUT they can minimize BM and kid's presence of the show from now on, if the resounding 0% positive reviews on the storyline is deemed incentive enough.

If they had any plans at all to have Oliver fall into BM's arms after being rejected by Felicity, hopefully this will end that line of thinking.

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

I bet the studio is a bit pissed that n one's talking about the spinoff, but they have some time to build that up.

 

They have no one to blame but themselves. Like why would you do a major storyline on a crossover episode?

 

Both shows promoted each other last year and people liked it. This year should have been promoting ALL of the LOT characters to both audiences and they fail to do that. Instead we got one of the most blandest crossover ever. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

I bet the studio is a bit pissed that n one's talking about the spinoff, but they have some time to build that up.

You can't drop a major Arrow bomb and then think people will give a crap about the newbies on some other show.  They have to know their fandom by now.  Blowing up Olicity (even if the explosion hasn't gone off yet) guaranteed no buzz about Lot.  Worse than that, it KILLED my desire to see the show and I was really positive about the whole thing and suddenly I'm dreading it.  I'm dreading all three - no actually I'm even dreading what they are going to do to Supergirl eventually.  It just seems pointless to let myself care about something new when I know they don't know how to take care of it.

 

Even if I can get past my disappointment (and at this point I'm not even sure when I'll be watching next week's Flash and Arrow) I will forever associate The Hawks and LoT with one of the worst moments of the series.  LoY goes on my never want to watch again list.  The sole reason I might still watch LoT is Sara.  The ridiculous manufactured angst broke my trust with the show - all the shows.  I was willing to believe they'd learned their lesson after season three and now I know for certain they haven't and likely never will.

 

Why would they hand out that knowledge during an episode designed to get you to want to watch more of their work?  How can they be this clueless about how badly they've mistepped?   

 

Arrow has a fairly tough audience and the core of it likely will stick it out.  This isn't going to hurt The Flash either but I think it we could really see the fallout in the rating for LoT.  Unless they have an epic pilot, I think they may have torpedoed their spin off. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

 

I was willing to believe they'd learned their lesson after season three and know I know for certain they haven't and likely never will.

It's all the same people and their ratings were fine in the Season of Misery (which I will honestly never understand).  So I didn't trust that they learned their lesson at all.  Some social media blowback and some negative reviews.  That was it.  

 

If they move Guggie over to LoT full-time, that might help.  Although from interviews Mericle said they were "really excited" about the stupid BM BS, so she's maybe just as bad.  

 

I think LoT is mostly a dudebro and comics people show, and from comments, I am seeing a fair number of that viewing audience pretty darn unenthused about, particularly, the Hawks...especially Hawkdude.  And it's going to be really expensive.  So I'm betting there's more panic about the not-great reaction to a lot of the LoT stuff than Arrow.  Although I am interested in ratings starting in 4.11, after the 4.09 cliffhanger is resolved in 4.10.  I agree that the core audience will pretty much stick around regardless, but as some point I have to believe the misery and angst will put off the casual viewers, which I think is the silent majority.  

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kes0704

kes0704

Reading this makes me want to nitpick again. I went back to rewatch the O/F fight in the original timeline and Felicity says "So I guess you're off the secret keeping bandwagon?". This implies to me that Felicity, the person who would best know the progress Oliver has made in being more open and honest, believes he is slipping back into his old ways. Some may even call it regressing.

MG co-wrote the script so he should know what's in it and it doesn't matter if that's not how it was meant to come across. He can control what's in the script and what ends up on screen but once it's aired I can choose to interpret what the characters say and how they behave in any way I like.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Reading this makes me want to nitpick again. I went back to rewatch the O/F fight in the original timeline and Felicity says "So I guess you're off the secret keeping bandwagon?". This implies to me that Felicity, the person who would best know the progress Oliver has made in being more open and honest, believes he is slipping back into his old ways. Some may even call it regressing.

MG co-wrote the script so he should know what's in it and it doesn't matter if that's not how it was meant to come across. He can control what's in the script and what ends up on screen but once it's aired I can choose to interpret what the characters say and how they behave in any way I like.

Oh he KNOWS that it's Oliver regressing, he's just tweaked that the audience is calling BS on it this time. 

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tv echo

tv echo

Laura Hurley's "what didn't work"

http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e08-what-didn-t-work-legends-of-yesterday

I think you guys will like this

 

I absolutely like what she says and agree 100% - esp. this part:

In a few minutes of screentime in a single episode, Samantha established herself as a fairly awful person. She seemed to be holding Oliver’s absence in her life over the past decade against him, and punishing him for not being around when she deliberately concealed the existence of their son was so incredibly unreasonable that it was difficult to build sympathy for her as a single mom in her cushy suburban home.

 

Besides, Season 2 established that Moira Queen actually promised $2 million to Samantha to claim a miscarriage, and Samantha only showed Oliver a check for $1 million. Even if the monetary discrepancy was just an oversight from the writers’ room, it has established Samantha as a liar even now and hinted that her life has been padded by plenty of cash that she accepted as a bribe. Her "Woe is me!" attitude doesn't mesh with her behavior. Emotionally blackmailing Oliver from just meeting his son by demanding that he deceive someone that he loves very much was cruel and unfair.

 

Of course, Oliver lying to Felicity about what had him distracted in Central City was plenty unfair. Worse, however, is that it made him dumb as well as unfair. Lying to Felicity once about William and Samantha if he never intended to see them again would only be bad; lying to Felicity when he intends to drop in from time to time is shortsighted and despicable. Lie will pile on top of lie, and he’s dooming his relationship with Felicity if he doesn’t come clean soon. Lying to her in the middle of all the apocalyptic action in Central City was forgivable, but cuddling up to her when everything was done and calm without telling her the truth was Pre-Island Ollie-esque in the worst way.

 

On that note, the final scene between Oliver and Felicity was a rare misstep from Stephen Amell. Oliver’s baby mama drama and subsequent huge lie to Felicity would have been much more palatable if he’d shown guilt or uncertainty or sadness when she began reaffirming her love for him. Smiling contentedly as he snuggled against her gave the impression that he was happy that he got away with his pretense rather than conflicted that he’d lied about something huge that is bound to come out to the woman that he wants to marry. Come on, Oliver.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

I love all the people hating on the storyline. It obviously won't affect anything for awhile (if it does at all), but it feels rather vindicating.

 

I have to say I'm sad that i hate it. I don't have an issue with kids in shows and "surprise you have a kid" storylines can be done, imo, in a smart mature way. ER managed to d it with Archie Morris in one of their late seasons. Hack even ally McBeal managed to do it.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Whoa, I had totally forgotten about it, but Ally McBeal is one of the shows I quit when the surprise kid showed up. I was willing to keep watching even after they had to write RDJ off the show, but then suddenly there was a kid [AND Jon Bon Jovi!], and I was out of there super quick.

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tv echo

tv echo

Arrow Season 4: 12 Questions We’re Asking After ‘Legends Of Yesterday’

Connor Briggs-Morris  4 DEC 2015
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-12-questions-were-asking-after-legends-of-yesterday.php

The problem with Vandal Savage was that he was supposed to be all-powerful, and was then summarily defeated...  If this group of heroes can so easily defeat Savage, why should he be feared in Legends Of Tomorrow? By allowing him to be defeated here, his threat has become a lot less impressive when he returns.
*  *  *
So going forward, will Oliver open up about it once he comes to terms with the situation himself? Felicity is bound to find out at some point, so it will fascinating to see if it will bring them closer together than ever or if the fight will be even worse than before.
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kismet

kismet

I absolutely like what she says and agree 100% - esp. this part:

Laura Hurley is usually spot-on. I wish I could sit down and grab a coffee with her tochat about shows. She has a very balanced approach to understanding & reviewing the show. When you guys were reporting that LH was having some problems with episode I knew it was gonna be bad. I still held out hope but it is what it is with these writers.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This io9 reviewer is funny as usual (although I think she's too harsh on Felicity and much too kind to Oliver)...

 

This Episode of Arrow is the Craziest Fricking Thing I've Ever Seen
Esther Inglis-Arkell  12/03/15 1:50pm
http://io9.com/this-episode-of-arrow-is-the-craziest-f-ing-thing-ive-1745940461

Everyone who has complained about the flashbacks this season can feast their eyes on this. It’s like going back to the sword-and-sandals movies of the 1950s, except the cast members don’t accidentally leave on their wrist-watches and no one finds Jesus at the end. Actors in voluminous robes but bosom-and-midriff-baring robes walk through an under-accessorized ancient Egypt, where Prince Khufu and Priestess Chay-ra debate about what kind of offering would stop Horus sending the “sky-rocks,” and then trade banter like, “You spoke with quite the tongue.” “Did I over-act?” “No. I love your tongue.”
*  *  *
Ever notice that whenever immortals start talking they’re always at the most notable events in history. Anyone else think they’re lying their ass off? “Robin of Loxley said this to me! We saw the Huang He floods of 1887!” No you didn’t! You lived in a crappy town eating noodles like 99.999 percent of the rest of humanity!,,,
*  *  *
Oliver has Barry run a DNA test on his perhaps-son. Who is definitely his son. When he confronts Samantha she is doing very well, despite not having cashed his mother’s check which, I’m betting, means she will be absolutely squished flat in about three episodes. Maybe two. Anyone willing to bet?
Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

HEROES JOIN FORCES: “LEGENDS OF YESTERDAY” CONCLUDES FLASH/ARROW CROSSOVER
Verena Cote | December 3, 2015
http://www.4ye.co.uk/2015/12/heroes-join-forces-legends-of-yesterday-concludes-flasharrow-crossover/

There are moments we would like to give Oliver a pat on the back and then there are moments we would like to slam him face first into a table. This episode had more moments of the second variety. There is no way to sugar coat it – Oliver is royally messing up. While Oliver is great in approaching William, he is doing every possible thing wrong in regards to his relationship with Felicity. The audience knows how the lies will end and it hurt like hell. Barry knows how the lies will end too – and since he is obviously yet another supporter of Olicity, it hurt him as well. Barry told Oliver that withholding this information from Felicity would be the cause of a serious fight. The insane amount of character development in the Olicity relationship that we have seen took a major step back last night. Keeping something so huge, so life-changing from the women he plans to spend the rest of his life with is plain stupid, and this lie will come back to haunt Oliver eventually. Shippers, better stock up on that mint chocolate chip ice cream, you will need it.
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tv echo

tv echo

Jessica Breaux's short but good review of 408...

 

Arrow “Legends of Yesterday” Review (Season 4, Episode 8)
http://www.tvequals.com/2015/12/04/arrow-legends-of-yesterday-review-season-4-episode-8/

... On the one hand, I do understand Samantha not wanting to disrupt her son’s life. He seems like a pretty well-adjusted kid. However, her jab at Oliver that the only thing he’d be able to teach William is how to punch out paparazzi and knock up young girls was pretty lame. It’s pretty clear that Oliver isn’t the same person he was before he got stranded on the island. If anything, everything that Oliver has done since he’s been back has been pretty responsible and it’s pretty evident that he’s grown and matured. It also didn’t make sense that Samantha acted as if Oliver had anything to do with Moira paying Samantha off. Samantha made the decision to take Moira’s hush money. Samantha made the decision to lie to Oliver just like Moira wanted. Samantha is the one who denied Oliver the opportunity to be a part of his son’s life for nine years. Becoming a mom apparently forced Samantha to grow up, but who’s to say that it wouldn’t have done the same for Oliver? Samantha claimed that she set the terms for Oliver the way she did because Oliver asked the world from her, but that’s not true. Oliver had no choice and no say in the matter. Samantha and Moira took away from him, and it’s unreasonable of Samantha to set such strict terms for Oliver to be involved with a son that he has just as much right to as she does. Especially when she refused to let him even tell Felicity about it.
 

Oliver still hasn’t seemed to learn from his mistakes... I get that he wants to be a part of William’s life and Samantha’s terms didn’t permit him to tell Felicity about William, but Samantha has no right to demand that Oliver keep such a secret from Felicity. Oliver should have pushed harder to be able to include Felicity in the loop. It wasn’t too long ago that Oliver and Felicity ended up having a fight because Felicity wasn’t being honest with Oliver. Doesn’t Oliver remember how much he disliked knowing that something was going on with Felicity that she wasn’t sharing? He didn’t like it very much at all, yet he’s doing the very same thing to her. Even worse, he’s outright lying to her by telling her that what was bothering him is no longer an issue. The problem is, lies always come back to bite you in the butt. Always. It’s not that I don’t appreciate the fact that Oliver is in a difficult situation, but you don’t keep secrets like that from someone that you profess to love. Even though I don’t condone lying as a matter of course, in this instance, Oliver should have agreed to Samantha’s terms but still told Felicity. She’s his better half and she deserves to know because the weight of that secret is going to directly effect Oliver’s relationship with her.

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tarotx

tarotx

Oliver has learned from the mistakes he has made. He has learned that he will have to deal with the consequences of his secrets and lies. That is where we are right now. Oliver knows he can deal with Consequences because he's good at  reacting. Dealing with the emotional fall out of his actions is something he has never had to to do. He tells secrets and lies and leaves. The emotional baggage is put off until the moment that he's reacting instead of thinking and feeling. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

From TV Line's weeks questions and answers:

21 | Who wore it best?

 

green-arrow-hawkman.jpeg?w=398&h=223

Can we mix and match?

 

Edited to say I read the comments under the article.  Most did mix and match Amell and Shanks for the win.  :D  (There were some Hartley fans but only one Arrow Hawkman lover.)

Edited by BkWurm1
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Probably in the minority here but I'd pick Smallville's GA and Arrow's Hawkman

Obviously you don't have ten seasons of massive Dr. Daniel Jackson love conditioning you to adore Michael Shank's beautiful blue eyes and curtly lashes?  It can be a cold, dark world for some.  ;) 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Obviously you don't have ten seasons of massive Dr. Daniel Jackson love conditioning you to adore Michael Shank's beautiful blue eyes and curtly lashes? It can be a cold, dark world for some. ;)

I absolutely loved Daniel Jackson and SG1. I just didn't like him on Smallville, I thought his costume was way to corny.
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tv echo

tv echo

I don't know if I will keep Emertainment Monthly on my reviewers list because I've noticed that this reviewer tends to gush over everything (rarely do I recall reading any criticism by her).  I think that her praise is sometimes warranted, but it dilutes a review when literally everything in every episode is described in glowing terms - this reviewer even refers to the "natural chemistry" between CR and FH (the Hawks)...

 

‘Arrow Review: “Legends of Yesterday”
December 4, 2015  Nora Dominick ‘17
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/2015/12/04/arrow-review-legends-yesterday/

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tv echo

tv echo

Hypable's TV ships of the week...

 

Olicity and CaptainSwan top our TV Ships
8:30 pm, December 6, 2015
http://www.hypable.com/olicity-and-captainswan-ships/

‘Arrow’ — All Aboard Olicity
*  *  *
Passengers: Oliver and Felicity

Sunset Cruise: When Oliver discovers he has a son, he tries to keep the truth from Felicity. However, fact-finding is Felicity’s specialty and she figures it out. The two have a major blowout over Oliver lying. This argument is erased when Barry travels through time, and Oliver hides the truth from Felicity in the new timeline. However, messing with time is bound to have negative consequences.

Ship Status: Watch out, our ship entered the Bermuda Triangle thanks to the interference of vessel The Flash. You never know how ships behave after they come out.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

TV Fanatic's roundtable discussion of 408...

 

Arrow Round Table: Lover, Liar, Superhero, Father
Carissa Pavlica at December 7, 2015 8:00 am
http://www.tvfanatic.com/2015/12/arrow-round-table-lover-liar-superhero-father/

From a writing perspective, WHAT THE HECK WHERE THEY THINKING?

Andy: I'm not sure what it is that this question is referring to because I didn't see anything that would have made me react like that.

Allison: I'm assuming we are talking Olicity drama. Samantha's request that Oliver not tell ANYONE about William was absurd and made no sense. He can't tell his freaking sister or the woman he loves? Um, no, not okay
Samantha. I get that she wants to keep this under wraps, but Oliver should not be forced to keep this from his family. This was clearly done just to throw drama in the otherwise smooth sailing ship that is Olicity. It was unnecessary and annoying. There are less annoying ways to cause drama.

Lindsay: Personally, I agree with Allison. I think the secrecy surrounding this whole subplot is mostly drama for drama's sake, almost to the point of being unbelievable. I knew they were going to throw a curve ball at Olicity eventually, but I'd hoped they would do it a little more gracefully than this.

Liz: I agree with Allison and Lindsay. It feels like a lot of cheap ploys for creating drama. There is potential for real character development, but making it so contrived has sort of gotten in the way of that.

Caralynn: I mentioned this a bit already, but the Olicity fight was SO incredibly contrived and neither of their reactions felt authentic. Felicity reverted to her most irritating pre-season 4 self and the fact that she flipped out after Oliver kept the secret from her for a whopping few hours was a ridiculous overreaction. This was by far my least favorite part of the crossover. And it was such a predictable angle to play! Poor form, writers.

Carissa: The drama had no place in the crossover. It left out most of the team and alienated Flash viewers. That's the least of it. That it was fabricated and not worthy of either character in their Arrow Season 4 form is what the worst of it. MY Oliver and MY Felicity were past that garbage. I'd like to know who made them drag it out again.

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

 

Carissa: The drama had no place in the crossover. It left out most of the team and alienated Flash viewers. That's the least of it. That it was fabricated and not worthy of either character in their Arrow Season 4 form is what the worst of it. MY Oliver and MY Felicity were past that garbage. I'd like to know who made them drag it out again.

 

LOL

Edited by apinknightmare
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I wanted to quote more, but will just recommend that you read the entire article (if you want)...

 

'Arrow' S04E08: What needs to happen next after 'Legends of Yesterday'
Laura Hurley   December 6, 2015 10:22 AM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e08-what-needs-to-happen-next-after-legends-of-yesterday

“Legends of Yesterday” needs to be the last Arrow venture for quite some time dedicated to launching spinoff Legends of Tomorrow. Yes, there was advancement on some key Arrow plots, but the Flarrow crossover should have been far more Flash and Arrow than Legends of Flarrow. The Hawks were interesting, but they did not deserve the bulk of the main plot of the crossover extravaganza....
*  *  *
The entire Flarrow-verse needs to continue looking to Oliver when things start to go south. With his skills as a fighter continually marginalized on his own show, his natural leadership should emerge. He may not always be the best leader, but Oliver has a commanding presence about him that can unify others...

Oliver needs to tell Felicity about his baby mama drama. Oliver was mostly intelligent in “Legends of Tomorrow” until he made the active decision back in Star City to conceal this life-changing bit of news to Felicity as he snuggled her on their couch in their home. Trying to keep up a pretense that is bound to come out sooner or later makes him look dumb as well as deplorable, and Arrow needs to nip this misstep in the bud and let Oliver ‘fess up sooner than later.
*  *  *
The writers need to get better at writing. Like, way better. If angst is going to be manufactured to throw drama at an otherwise stable and mature couple, it could at least be better cloaked in nuance than what was served up in “Legends of Yesterday.”
Edited by tv echo
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As 'The Walking Dead' Hibernates, Here Are 15 Shows To Watch Instead
Paul Tassi, CONTRIBUTOR   DEC 6, 2015 @ 04:25 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/12/06/as-the-walking-dead-hibernates-here-are-15-shows-to-watch-instead/

Arrow/The Flash (The CW)
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This is the first pairing of a few comic book based shows I’ll be recommending, considering The Walking Dead was also a comic before it was a show. Arrow is on season four while its spin-off, The Flash is on season two, and they will soon spawn a lovechild, Legends of Tomorrow, pulling characters from each. The DC TV universe is expanding rapidly based on the success of these two shows, and both have their strengths and weaknesses (Arrow season two and The Flash season one are probably the highlights). Now’s a great time to see what the fuss has been about, even as everyone is drooling over the upcoming Batman V. Superman. This is where the more compelling DC action is, in my opinion.
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Arrow 4x08 Olicity Heart-to-Heart: I’m Not Really a Hugger
MARILYN PORTER  THU DEC 3 2015 11:00AM
http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2015/12/arrow-season-4-episode-08-olicity-heart-to-heart-im-not-really-a-hugger

The scene where Oliver plays with William in his room is sweet, but tainted by the deceit, I feel.  I want him to have a relationship with his son but not with this axe hanging over his head. It’s unfair of Samantha to ask this of him. It’s disappointing that Oliver would agree to lie to Felicity about it.... Why can’t Oliver lie to Samantha and tell Felicity?  They work better a team, she wants to be his partner, something she just got done telling Oliver.
*  *  *

It feels like contrived television drama to me, and that’s the biggest disappointment of all.  For seven episodes, we’ve had a healthy, mature relationship for Oliver and Felicity. It feels odd for that development and consistency be thrown out the window to create drama for this couple. Because we know this secret won’t stay hidden. Felicity will learn the truth, sooner or later, and Oliver keeping this from her will be a betrayal for a women who just two episodes ago was concerned about losing herself in her love for this man. She will feel like a fool, feel like their life together is filled with lies and

she will give him back the engagement ring that I have on good faith he gives her in next week’s episode.


*  *  *

There’s many ways this storyline can go and all those directions don’t have to be bad ones. Hopefully, this couple will emerge from this stronger and better for the challenge met and surpassed.

Edited by tv echo
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