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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I could only quote excerpts, so you may want to read the whole article...

 

The TV Superhero Descendants Of Felicity Smoak
By Robert Dougherty Oct 28, 2015 12:15 PM
http://www.themovienetwork.com/article/tv-superhero-descendants-felicity-smoak

Arrow has helped spawn many new TV superheroes, as further reflected this week with the premiere of Supergirl on CBS. It certainly makes it easy to think that superheroes are taking over TV like they are in the movies, but Arrow hasn't just led to a rise in TV costumed characters... In truth, its more unstoppable legacy is in spawning a whole collective of Felicity Smoaks.
*  *  *
Supergirl is a DC show that doesn't share the Arrow/Flash/Legends of Tomorrow universe and is on a bigger network. Nevertheless, if Arrow/Flash producers Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg didn't directly lift Kara Danvers' human alter ego from Felicity's arsenal of quirks, foot in mouth disease and awkwardness, there are a few scenes in her CatCo office job that certainly make it look like they owe Felicity some royalties. Of course, the similarities largely end when Kara turns into Supergirl -- leaving aside Felicity's brief foray into flying in the Season 3 finale.
*  *  *
If Barry Allen is the right way to give a hero the quirks of Felicity, Ray Palmer proved to be the other end of the coin for much of Arrow Season 3. While Barry and Felicity's two episodes together the previous year showed how similar they were, it also showed the basis of a real friendship and connection, even if it wasn't destined to be romantic -- something Felicity and Ray's connection wasn't on any of those levels.
*  *  *
Not every would be Felicity is created equal, as quirks and babbling can't be the fix-it solution to hide other questionable character traits -- and neither can the mere endorsement of Felicity herself. Fortunately, both Arrow and The Flash are showing early signs they've learned better this season, with each show introducing another Felicity-type for different purposes.
 

In the case of Arrow, it has learned its lesson by giving Felicity someone like her who is actually a friend, in the form of new assistant Curtis Holt. In the case of The Flash, it is doing things different by introducing a Felicity/Barry Allen type as a new love interest, in the form of new cop Patty Spivot.
*  *  *
Between Barry, Ray, Curtis and Patty, time will tell in the weeks ahead where Kara/Supergirl falls in the Felicity spectrum. There's also a case even more characters belong in it, since The Flash's Caitlin Snow has her occasional bouts of Felicity-style awkwardness and babbling, especially around Earth-2 Flash Jay Garrick this season.
*  *  *
The architype of an oddball female science genius was in place long before Felicity and the superhero genre borrowed it. It has also been used for years on the likes of NCIS and 24, and even Berlanti's other new show Blindspot has one too. Felicity was hardly the first character of her kind, yet DC TV is particularly determined to make sure she isn't the last.
 

However, the thing worth remembering is there would have been no Felicity Smoaks if Arrow stuck to its original plan. Unlike Barry, Ray and even Curtis and Patty, Felicity was never intended to go beyond a one-shot guest star, or a recurring guest star at best, until she made Oliver Queen smile for the first time ever. That alone makes the rise of Felicity more organic and historic than her successors will ever get to have.
*  *  *
These characters and actors like Grant Gustin, Melissa Benoist, Brandon Routh, Echo Kellum and Shantel VanSanten can copy or accidentally resemble Felicity's character all they want, some more effectively than others. But there is no way they can capture the exact circumstances and spark that turned Felicity from an overlooked IT girl to the engine that now pretty much drives Arrow, and influences pretty much every hero in the CW universe in some fashion.
 

Supergirl may indeed become the feminist costumed hero that broadcast TV and the superhero genre needs. However, there is currently no female hero who has a legacy and descendants throughout TV like the current CEO of Palmer Tech -- and prospective Mrs. Queen/Star City First Lady.

Edited by tv echo
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Morrigan2575
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I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
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I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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Dougherty considers Ray Palmer to be LoT's Felicity equivalent.  And here's Dougherty's review of 404...

 

Arrow S4: E4 -- 'Beyond Redemption'
By Robert Dougherty October 29, 2015 09:16AM EDT
http://www.themovienetwork.com/review/arrow-s4-e4-beyond-redemption

Beyond Redemption lets us recall the times when Thea was a partying drug addict, when Oliver distracted Felicity with the salmon ladder, when the threats of the week weren't meta human or from an evil collective, when Oliver could tell them they failed this city, when Lance lended his reluctant help to the team, and when the biggest internal conflict of a given week was between Oliver and Lance. However, since Lance actually fights alongside the current team in action for the first time ever, and gets invited to an Arrow cave for the first time ever, it is still very much new territory.
*  *  *
When he gets the chance, Stephen Amell lets out Oliver's disappointment, rage and sorrow in a explosion about four years in the making for the show -- and really a decade or more in the making for Oliver. To that point, Paul Blackthorne had already been carrying the episode thanks to the other massive burden placed upon his head by Laurel, but it goes to another level here and afterwards.
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tv echo

tv echo

Again, I could only quote excerpts, so you may want to read the entire review...

 

Arrow 4x04 "Beyond Redemption" (Save What Had Been Lost)
6:49 PM  arrow review, s04.04
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2015/10/arrow-4x04-beyond-redemption-save-what.html

Which all brings us to "Beyond Redemption," which — as I noted above — is an interesting title for an interesting episode. Here's the thing: you all know that I played devil's advocate for Laurel last week, because — as an older sister — I got why she wanted to save Sara. I would do anything for my baby sister, too. But this week, Laurel's not going to get much sympathy from me as I try to understand exactly what her logic is behind believing that Sara will be okay again. Did ANYONE tell her she would be? Has anyone said "just give it a week, and the Lazarus Pit will wear off"? Because unless they did and I missed something, I have no reason to believe that Sara will ever be the same again, and Laurel shouldn't either.
 

But she's pathologically delusional at this point. And, again, while I can't support her, I'm trying my very best to understand her and this is the first episode where I feel like Laurel was completely irrational. I want to like her, truly I do. Often, I can at least try to understand the reasoning behind her actions. Unfortunately though, from start to finish in "Beyond Redemption," Laurel made poor decision after poor decision — all while scowling and lying to everyone besides Quentin.
*  *  *
Let's talk about Quentin, shall we? Because this is a man who is self-righteous and eager to tear Oliver apart. And yet, in the episode, Oliver discovers Damien and Quentin have been conversing. When approached with this, Quentin still — rather emotionally and angrily — tries to take the moral high road, but Oliver quickly strips him of that opportunity. Quentin Lance used to be the kind of man who was a bit bristly, but he had moral standards. There were lines he did not cross. Heck, even Damien Darhk has lines he won't cross. The scariest and most dangerous people are those whose moral codes fluctuate. Quentin Lance is a desperate man, and desperation leads people to do stupid, reckless, selfish things (again — it runs in the family) in the name of a better or higher or worthier cause. The truth is that it is so easy for Quentin to judge Oliver: to look at him and sneer at his choices and his decisions. But Quentin has never had to make any of the complex decisions Oliver did... until now. And when he is faced with the choice? He chooses to do business with the devil.
 

In one of the best displays of acting on Arrow to date, Quentin Lance and Oliver Queen have an intensely emotional screaming match, in which the former tries to justify what he did to protect the people he loved. Oliver knows that there is ALWAYS another choice to make and — really powerfully and boldly — tells Quentin to stop hiding behind Sara and Laurel as his excuse for wrongdoing. Quentin and Laurel are alike in a lot of ways. They blame other people for their problems in an effort to justify their poor behavior. That's why they are both addicts, too. Oliver then, more calmly, tells Quentin that he looked up to the man for so long and wanted his approval.
*  *  *
... The moment between these two character was so beautiful. Kudos to Echo Kellum and Emily Bett Rickards for really selling me on the emotional connection they have already. At the end of the episode, Felicity does open the audio file from Ray and hears his voice before breaking down in tears. I may not have liked Ray, but I know that — creepy or not — Felicity cared about him. Hearing a message from someone who loved you and who you cared about is painful. I'm glad she did it by herself though, because she needs to hear the message to heal.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I don't see how a creepy stalker can be equivalent to Felicity. Then again I didn't watch last year so I have no idea if he acted exactly the same as Felicity. 

 

I believe the similarities were supposed to be in terms of personality, humor, and being a quirky tech genius.  Ray was his example of the wrong way to clone Felicity.  I couldn't quote the entire Doughterty article on Felicity, but he does address the stalker issue - also from that article:

In that case, Arrow was so overcommitted to making Ray the male Felicity, it completely forgot the real Felicity wasn't a stalker, had actual boundaries, had an actual purpose other than auditioning for another show, didn't start her existence in an extremely ill-advised love triangle during an extremely ill-advised season, and bothered to ask people before doing things like dressing her up for dates, giving her a job and giving her a multi-billion dollar company. Even with all that seemingly behind Ray -- if only because no one on any writing staff actually bothered to address it or consider why it might be a real problem -- it makes it harder to have faith in his upcoming Arrow return, or in him headlining Legends of Tomorrow afterwards.
Edited by tv echo
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'Arrow' Recap: Dirty Cops and Dirtier Cops
Robert Chan  October 29, 2015
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/arrow-recap-dirty-cops-and-dirtier-cops-044758405.html

... Paul Blackthorne really gets to cut loose, and it’s fantastic to see him stretch this episode.
*  *  *
The thing about political scandals is not so much that a person does something bad; it’s that they’ve spent their whole career calling out other people for doing exactly the same thing.
 

Lance has been lecturing Oliver from the very beginning about his “ends justifies the means” activities, and just when it’s beginning to sink in, he gets in bed with Damien Darhk and is forced to deal with his hypocrisy. It adds extra relevance to his speech to Liza Warner (Rutina Wesley) when he tells her, “I gotta believe that we are not beyond redemption.” How is he going to redeem himself when there’s no way he’s getting out from under Darhk’s thumb?
*  *  *
So Teeny-Tiny Ray Palmer is the one sending her those messages? Texting someone crash logs is the nerd equivalent of those chalky little candy hearts schoolkids hand out at Valentine’s Day.
*  *  *
Curtis Holt — who we may just start calling Curtis Terrific — was pretty sure that Neal Adams is the Palmer Tech employee who’s secretly Green Arrow. He definitely isn’t the Green Arrow, but he certainly had a huge hand in who the character is. Mr. Adams’s run as writer and artist on the Green Arrow comic in the '70s is arguably the most important of the series.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow, Ep. 4.04, “Beyond Redemption”
Randy Dankievitch  October 29, 2015
http://www.popoptiq.com/arrow-beyond-redemption-review/

While “Beyond Redemption” doesn’t escape the logistical issues season four of Arrow‘s been plagued with, it’s a major step forward for the show, both moving away from some of the troublesome characterizations from the season opener, and streamlining some of the many stories it’s trying to juggle at the moment. Anchored by the strongest Captain Lance arc in years, “Beyond Redemption” is the first light of hope Arrow‘s offered its audience this season.
*  *  *
(Side note: Love how Oliver calls out Lance’s patriarchal bullshit about “protecting” a woman who is a masked vigilante. The point would hit home harder, however, if we’d stop having fight scenes where Laurel gets her ass kicked around, until the obligatory moment when the tides turn for Team Arrow.)
*  *  *
... His platform is the best touch of all: in theme with the show’s transformation from a story about one man into a group, his opening speech (written by Thea, who apparently is totally normal after her rabid throat-slashing last week) is about being united, and working together to save the city.
*  *  *
... As always, Lian Yu turns out to be as exciting as watching bread toast – and by the same token, an Arrow villain whose ideologies are utter nonsense that shifts from scene to scene is really nothing new. Thankfully, those stories are obfuscated by those Oliver/Lance scenes – without them, “Beyond Redemption” might be a more befitting title than the writers would probably hope.
*  *  *
“She’s speaking because she’s remembering!” Your weekly reminder that Laurel is the worst.
Edited by tv echo
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(edited)

How to fall off a high-horse and other things: 4x04 Thoughts

5 hours ago
http://outoftheclosetshipper.tumblr.com/post/132139314413/how-to-fall-off-a-high-horse-and-other-things

I am continuing to love how Olicity is being handled. The love and their in-love status is so apparent with these two. And, to me, and this may not be a popular opinion, I don’t need constant declarations of love, or touchy-feely moments between Oliver and Felicity all the time, to prove that. I’m happy to know that they’re in love and they’re in a committed relationship, and that informs how I view all their scenes together.
 

I’m a comic book and manga reader. There are relationships in comic books that I have loved over the last three decades: Barbara Gordon and Dick Grayson, Bruce Wayne / Batman and Selina Kyle / Catwoman, Himura Kenshin and Kamiya Kaoru, Matt Murdock / Daredevil and Karen Page, Jean Grey and Scott Summers, Kurosaki Ichigo and Kuchiki Rukia, to name a few. And the way these relationships were handled in the comic books reminds me of how Oliver and Felicity’s relationship is being handled in the show: these couples are (were) in love and are (or will be) in relationships, but it didn’t have to be shown so obviously all the time because, aside from being in a relationship – or being in love – they were also partners in a common mission, and sometimes, that common mission takes precedence over lovey-dovey scenes and PDA. Their love and relationship is important to the story, yes, but it’s not the only important thing in the story.
 

The relationship is given its proper due and there’s always reminders of the relationship, of course – with moments like Thea thinking that Oliver’s big announcement (after Digg tells them that Oliver couldn’t stop smiling on the way to where they were meeting) was about him and Felicity being engaged, or that moment with the salmon ladder, or the one where Oliver asks Felicity if she’s OK when she struggles to right her seat, or with clever editing where Felicity is shown as Oliver says, “the ones we love” in his speech, or Oliver mentioning that Felicity bought the new lair  for them, or the giddy look of pride and love on Felicity’s face when Oliver announces his intentions to run for Mayor of Star City – but it’s never to the point where the relationship takes over the story. Not all the time, anyway.
 

... Because I didn’t sign up for a romantic drama when I started watching Arrow. I signed up for an action-packed show about a comic book superhero and his mission to save his city. And while I enjoy the romantic elements, I never wanted Oliver and Felicity’s relationship to turn Arrow into a romantic drama. Rather, and I’ve said this before, I wanted Olicity to be threaded through the action, the mysteries, the dealings with villains, the team working together, and their common mission.
*  *  *
And what’s even more horrific? She’s – as per usual – completely unaware of her actions. Completely clueless as to what exactly she has done. And worse! She’s still self-righteous! She still behaves as if she did nothing wrong.

 

I don’t know if it’s an acting choice, or the way she’s been instructed to play her scenes, but there’s such a disconnect between what LL is dealing with (her sister in the basement) and her other scenes. Like she’s behaving like everything is normal. She still has room to question Oliver’s choices, or to make quips in the field. I mean, unless she’s going to be revealed to be a pathological liar, it doesn’t make sense.

Edited by tv echo
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bethy

bethy

Thanks, as always, TV Echo for the reviews and clips. It's nice to see that official entertainment type sites (Vulture and IGN are legitimate sites, right? As opposed to fan sites?) noting the total weirdness of how Laurel is handling this situation. 

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'Arrow' 4x04 'Beyond Redemption' Review: Desperate Times
Allison Nichols October 28, 2015 :02 PM MST
http://www.examiner.com/review/arrow-4x04-beyond-redemption-review-desperate-times

Laurel’s oblivion to what she did to Sara is just astonishing. She’s so blinded by something, maybe it’s hope, but it is more like oblivious hope in the worst way. Laurel will not consider that she brought back anyone other than Sara, but she never explains why she’s ignoring the most likely real possibility that she did more harm than good by putting Sara in the Lazarus Pit.
 

All of this would have been easier to swallow is Laurel had an emotional breakdown when pressed about how she is ignoring the facts. Laurel could have cited how lost she is without her sister, or some variation along those lines. The decision to put Sara into the pit was driven by grief, but we haven’t seen that from Laurel.
 

We need a breakdown. We need some sign that Laurel has not just gone completely insane and kind of stupid. Laurel is smarter than how she is acting, and while the prospect of having Sara back is amazing (at least personally), it shouldn’t come at the cost of destroying Laurel as a character.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This same review was posted on two sites (I actually thought it was too harsh on Laurel)...

 

ARROW Review - S4 Ep.4 (Beyond Redemption)
By boboMELOSHE - 10/28/2015
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/OTLNews/news/?a=126413
http://otlnews.net/2015/10/29/arrow-review-s4-ep-4-beyond-redemption/

Despite Laurel cementing herself as literally the worst, Beyond Redemption was really well done. With a focus on the strained relationship between Captain Lance and Oliver and a return to the main narrative of the season Arrow continues to impress in it’s fourth season.
*  *  *
Hands down the most powerful and memorable scenes of the week came from the conflict between Lance and Oliver....
*  *  *
Where one Lance is written with precision, the other continues to be dragged through the mud. Laurel remains the most insufferable character on Arrow. Having her reject the mountain of advice against reviving Sarah was already a low point for her. To have her than chain her sister up in a basement while insisting that everything is ok is just plain ridiculous. Sarah may be a crazy monster right now but Laurel is way worse.
*  *  *
Beyond Redemption was a great all around episode, the lone exception being Laurel. The writers refuse to write her as anything other than an intolerable bitch.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

Entertainment Weekly's review is mostly a recap...

 

'Beyond Redemption' Arrow Season 4, Ep. 4
BY JONATHON DORNBUSH Posted October 28 2015
http://www.ew.com/recap/arrow-season-4-episode-4

Can someone you know be so deceptive, behave so out of character, that they’re beyond redemption? That’s one of the questions facing Oliver and the gang on tonight’s Arrow, which forces Quentin into one of the worst situations a father could imagine (though it’s doubtful any dad could even fathom what Quentin faces).
 

Laurel and Thea have brought Sara back from Nanda Parbat, but she’s still in feral mode, so Laurel has chained her sister up in the basement and begun to treat her like a rabid pet. They’re still keeping Oliver in the dark (Laurel doesn’t want to deal with his judgment for her actions), which allows the rising Queen to initiate his run for mayor.
*  *  *
He can’t quite understand. He lost his brother six years ago, and he would give just about anything to hear something new from someone he thought long lost. (ASIDE: I would just like to take this moment to say Echo Kellum has been a phenomenal addition to the cast. As someone who can share that sentiment of jumping at the chance to hear something fresh from a departed loved one, I can say he hits this scene out of the park with such truth and believability, showing a side of Curtis we haven’t yet seen. END ASIDE) Felicity eventually gives in and reveals the password to him, which means when she returns to Palmer Tech she will have quite the audio message waiting for her.

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Chaser

Chaser

This same review was posted on two sites (I actually thought it was too harsh on Laurel)...

 

ARROW Review - S4 Ep.4 (Beyond Redemption)

By boboMELOSHE - 10/28/2015

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/OTLNews/news/?a=126413

http://otlnews.net/2015/10/29/arrow-review-s4-ep-4-beyond-redemption/

'Bitch' is an odd word for me. Bitch with Wi-Fi - I'm good. Bad Ass Bitch - Yep. HBIC- Hell Yeah. I'm even okay with a character being called 'bitchy,' because I do find Laurel bitchy in a negative way. But 'intolerant bitch' I'm not okay with. I don't care what female character gets called it, I hate it.

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tv echo

tv echo

Arrow Review: 4.4 – ‘Beyond Redemption’
October 29, 2015 | Posted by Anthony Falco
http://411mania.com/movies/arrow-review-4-4-beyond-redemption/

So after last week’s eventful Arrow, tonight’s ‘Beyond Redemption’ is a throwaway episode with a lot of sappy moments: basically it is filler with some interesting plot twists. The villains are forgettable, the action is suspect and most of the storylines are uninteresting.
*  *  *
... I understand that this is a trained unit – afterwards, the group finds out that they are a part of the anti-vigilante task force – yet Arrow has always had the problem of randomly using defeats as plot devices, even when the villains are no match for the heroes. Also, it does not help that the action seems stiff: it really looks like they winged it, as the choreography is rough around the edges.
*  *  *
This leads to two scenes: first, Oliver reprimanding Quentin, which is actually quite powerful, and, second, the captain going to shoot Sara. As for the former, there is real emotion in this sequence: the whole series, Queen has been trying to win the affection of Laurel’s father – something he has failed miserably at. However, for the tables to be turned and Oliver to look at this fatherly figure with disgust is quite heartbreaking. This makes the little exchange between Thea and Oliver, where he questions saving the city and running for mayor, that much more sad. At the same time, I did not buy the captain pointing a gun at Sara. Whether it is Paul Blackthorne and Katie Cassidy’s performances or the writing, it comes across as way too melodramatic: also, a father has a gun pointed at his daughter and I did not feel an ounce of emotion.
*  *  *
... Yes, tonight has some good moments – like the introduction of the new lair – yet the action is stiff, the script is downright awful and the plot is completely forgettable. Hopefully next week’s crossover can put this season back on the right course.
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tv echo

(edited)

MTV lists its "nine best moments" from 404...

 

‘Arrow’ Proves Detective Lance And Star City Are Not ‘Beyond Redemption’
by kayti burt 14h ago
http://www.mtv.com/news/2364218/arrow-beyond-redemption-recap/

Though “Arrow” has flirted with a return to greatness with some consistently entertaining episodes this season, “Beyond Redemption” is the first time in a long time that the show’s been able to deliver a cohesive yet ambitious story grounded in the worth of this city and the people who care about it....
Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

Positive review of S4 so far (good, except for getting Quentin's name wrong)...

 

Greg's Berlanti's DC takeover, part 2: Arrow
David Morris  October 29, 2015 9:55 PM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/greg-s-berlanti-s-dc-takeover-part-2-arrow

... Last season, 'Arrow', the flagship series that started Berlanti's takeover of the format, took pangs for going pretty dark, even by the standards of DC...
*  *  *
Already, this season seems to be a lot brighter than the last one, with hints of even more joy as the season unfolds. Berlanti has been perhaps the most brilliant user of crossovers since Joss Whedon was running 'Buffy' and 'Angel, and has already laid the groundwork for some remarkable back and forth. As if that weren't enough to delight the average comic book fan, next week's episode promises an arrival by John Constantine, from the recently departed NBC series. What makes these series special is the fact that they are never being done just for show. Berlanti has always expressed interests in telling multi-level complex stories and while 'Flash' has demonstrated great ability, 'Arrow' has mastered it first. And anyone who considers these series merely comic books clearly doesn't pay enough attention. (Paul Blackthorne alone had a scene in last night's episode when he confronted the fact of his daughter's inhumanity that by itself was worth an Emmy nomination.)
 

It's still not a perfect series. The flashbacks to Oliver's life before his return to Star City have been become less pertinent and more reminiscent of the early days of 'Lost': one is starting to wonder why they're relevant. And the series still doesn't quite know how to use all it's characters flawlessly--- John Barrowman, so brilliant last season, has been regulated to near cameo status. But these are still minor complaints as one watches a modern epic begin to unfold.

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looptab

looptab

I'm actually not sure that she's as in the dark as it seems. I think it'd be a nice surprise if we find out that she knows about the ring.

Could be! And yeah, I wouldn't mind if she knows about it :)

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

LH's "Where's the ring?" joke tweets (these are hilarious)...

Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  16h16 hours ago
TQ: "Where's the ring?!"
FS: "What ring?"
TQ: "...around the rosie?"
FS: "..."
TQ: "Oliver says you have the plague."
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  16h16 hours ago
TQ:"Where's the ring?!"
FS:"Ring?"
TQ "...of salt."
FS:"..."
TQ:"I think it's haunted here."
OQ:"By your future ghost?"
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  16h16 hours ago
TQ: "Where's the ring?!"
FS: "Ring?"
TQ: "Mom's ring!"
LL: "White gold size 7 princess cut?"
TQ:"..."
FS:"..."
LL: "What?"
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  15h15 hours ago
TQ:"Where's the ring?!"
FS:"Ring?"
TQ:"...a-ding-ding."
FS:"..."
TQ:"It's a song."
FS:"..."
TQ:"I was in a Lazarus Pit."
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  15h15 hours ago
TQ (to FS): "Where's the ring--"
OQ: "HAHAHAHA OH THAT LAZARUS PIT MAKING HER SAY CRAZY THINGS!"
TQ: "--leader?"
OQ: "Oh."
#laurawritesarrow
Laura Hurley ‏@lah9891  15h15 hours ago
FS (on speakerphone): "Somebody robbed the loft!"
TQ: "Oh no! Do you--"
OQ: "IS THE BOWL OF ROCKS STILL THERE?!?"
#laurawritesarrow

https://twitter.com/lah9891

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

Same Geek Channel: ‘Arrow’ Episode 4.04 “Beyond Redemption”
Posted on 30 October, 2015 by Joey L. Mills
http://geekdad.com/2015/10/sgc-arrow-4-04/

... This episode got back to the heart of the series and the relationships that have shaped the show from day one. When can a man or a city no longer be saved? Where is that line and what happens when it is crossed? ... This episode never explicitly answered those questions. I don’t know that there is a single answer. But it did give us some insight into what these characters might be willing to do to attempt to atone for the sins of their pasts. Maybe even what they’re willing to sacrifice.
*  *  *
As if leading a crooked police force and Darhk’s threats weren’t problem enough for Captain Lance, Laurel dumps a whole different level of crazy in his lap. Sara, who has been dead for a year now, is alive, feral, and chained in Laurel’s basement. Not only that, but Laurel is exuding the creepy-calm that calls to mind the mother figure in some horror film, telling her demon spawn that everything will be just fine once her chap comes into his own.
*  *  *
Final thoughts:
1) As much as we have fun tearing into these shows about costumed people doing crazy things, I’d be remiss not to point out that the first scene between Ollie and Lance in Lance’s apartment was some of the best acting we’ve seen on this show. Kudos to Stephen Amell and Paul Blackthorne!

2) It’s fun to see the Canary Cry on-screen. That said… what a craptastic power.

3) In the past two weeks, we’ve seen a lot more on-the-street action between Ollie and Laurel. Episode 4.02 gave us Ollie firing a zipline arrow and Laurel jumping on without missing a beat. This week we got Ollie firing another cable arrow and the two swinging down together. It seems like the producers are starting to bring these two together more. A hint of things to come?

4) Have your thoughts changed about who might be in the grave we saw in the season premiere? After Ollie came clean with Lance about how Ollie has always wanted Lance’s approval, have you leaned more toward Lance paying the ultimate price for siding with Darhk, however briefly? Still think Felicity dies, removing her for a possible Laurel and Ollie pairing?...

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Good questions raised ("What's In the Box?!") and some WTF moments from WhatCulture (sorry, but that pic is just funny)...

 

Arrow: 10 Questions We’re Asking After Beyond Redemption
James Hunt  29 OCT 2015
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-10-questions-were-asking-after-beyond-redemption.php

 

Arrow Season 4: 14 WTF Moments From ‘Beyond Redemption’
Andrew Pollard   42 minutes ago
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-14-wtf-moments-from-beyond-redemption.php

Seriously, it’s like something from a dodgy horror film. All she needs to do is have Sara on a diet of fish heads and curdled milk.

Things only got more creepy when we see Laurel talking to Sara as if she’s some sort of child. Rightly so, Sara then deservedly attacks Laurel.
*  *  *
8.  Canary Cry Neutralised
9e1gmwBq.jpg
Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

From TheWrap...

The first crossover between “The Flash” and “Arrow” on The CW, in 2014, resulted in the highest-rated episode yet for the latter,drawing a 1.4. Andrew Kreisberg, showrunner on both CW superhero shows, was not shy in admitting that a crossover early in the run of “The Flash” — bringing over Emily Bett Rickards from “Arrow” — was designed to draw the interest of established fans of the parent show, and it certainly paid off.
*  *  *

“In the beginning there was concern that crossovers would diminish the shows, and for whatever reason, for us and it seems like for the audience too, we’ve found that crossovers make both shows feel bigger,” he said.

The crossovers have also proven to be a hit with fans, and Kreisberg acknowledged that “mini-crossovers,” involving one or two characters from one show appearing on another, have become more prevalent on his shows as a result.
 

It also makes sense, marketing wise, especially on shows that already share similar tone and universes.

How ‘Bones’ and ‘Sleepy Hollow’ Are Fueling a Crossover Comeback
Linda Ge on October 29, 2015 @ 11:53 am
https://www.thewrap.com/how-bones-and-sleepy-hollow-are-fueling-a-crossover-comeback/

Edited by tv echo
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wingster55

wingster55

I'm a bit confused. Wouldn't the mere fact that three Flash characters are showing up on Arrow be enough to draw interest onto the show? Sure having Felicity on and further explore that friendship helped..but the word "crossover" would have done it.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'm a bit confused. Wouldn't the mere fact that three Flash characters are showing up on Arrow be enough to draw interest onto the show? Sure having Felicity on and further explore that friendship helped..but the word "crossover" would have done it.

He's talking about Felicity's first appearance on The Flash, which was designed to pull Arrow viewers over there - not the double-header crossover.

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Delphi

Delphi

Well they didn't know that at the time. They had already planned Felicity going over before the show aired because pilots always draw an audience but there isn't a guarantee they'll come back. They didn't know the Flash was going to be so successful.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

They wrote Felicity's crossover ep before The Flash had even aired, and as the article states, AK said it was a move to draw Arrow viewers over to The Flash. No one in that article said it was for a boost?

The article only mentioned Arrow ratings because it's an article about crossovers, and the first Arrow/Flash crossover resulted in Arrow's best rating thus far - they didn't mention Flash's because their best ratings came in a non-crossover ep.

Edited by apinknightmare
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wonderwall

wonderwall

No they didn't say boost true. But they should have had an inkling that Flash would do great in the ratings. Barry's eps were the highest rated s2 eps IIRC. Isn't that why they scrapped the backdoor pilot?

 

Yeah they had an inkling for sure. But what's bad about wanting even MORE people to watch? Which was probably their goal. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

They're not talking about The Flash's ratings, though. They're talking about getting people who watch Arrow to tune into The Flash. Maybe they were concerned that people would watch the pilot and be turned off (they're two very different shows, and there's no way they could've banked on people who loved the dark tone of Arrow to love something lighter like The Flash)? Watching Barry on Arrow is a different experience from watching him on his own show.

No one in that article is saying that Felicity helped raise The Flash's ratings - they're saying that Felicity got more people who watched Arrow to tune into The Flash.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Also, getting more Arrow people to tune into Flash could also be because they wanted Arrow people to be familiar with that show considering all of the crossovers/shared universe stuff so they don't tune out or not know what's happening when Cisco or Caitlin or Star Labs is mentioned. 

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kismet

kismet

Berlanti and team have had many successes & failures. Even inklings aren't enough in the TV industry. How many shows have started strong in the Pilot & preseason only to crash and burn? Using a favorite character to get in more audience members is never a bad thing regardless of how good you think your show is or how good the projected ratings are... Plus it might draw people back from the Flash to Arrow, so its a win/win without even needing the big crossover. The minute you believe the hype and stop using the available resources to give your shows the best chance to succeed is the minute you set yourself up for failure.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This whole article is great (I could only quote excerpts, so you may want to read the rest of this article)...

 

Why ‘The Flash’ And ‘Arrow’ Are What Young Science Nerds Have Been Looking For

"Arrow" and "The Flash" sure love their scientists, and that could have far reaching implications for the kids who might become scientists themselves.

by victoria mcnally 10/28/2015
http://www.mtv.com/news/2355893/flash-arrow-science-nerds/?xrs=_s.tw_news

“Arrow” first started the trend in its premiere season by bringing in tech wiz Felicity Smoak, who quickly went from being a helpful voice in Oliver Queen’s ear to becoming one of most important members of the team. Now she’s the CEO of the biggest company in Star City (which was previously run by billionaire robotics expert Ray Palmer), and works alongside the algorithm-creating genius Curtis Holt. Meanwhile, “The Flash” literally takes place in a laboratory, where forensic scientist Barry Allen regularly hangs out with the crew of S.T.A.R. labs — engineering wunderkind Cisco Ramon, bio-engineer Caitlin Snow, and physicist Martin Stein, as well as science enthusiast Patty Spivot and Earth-2 Flash Jay Garrick.
*  *  *
But Cisco, Felicity, Curtis, Caitlin and the rest of the geeks in the DC TV universe are important for more reasons than just their intelligence or their ability to have fun. In addition to dispelling the stereotype of scientists as asocial losers, they’re also presenting a very diverse group in terms of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual identity (Curtis is gay), religious affiliation (Felicity is Jewish), field of study and family background. That could be groundbreaking for the kids who don’t usually get a chance to see positive scientific role models that look like them, whether on screen or in real life....
Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Lol, that's the one that was leaked. Someone is going to get in trouble. 

 

I wonder if they code them in any way to know who could've leaked it (LMAO, I know, this is the CW we're talking about)? Seems like they sent out a lot of screeners for this ep.

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quarks

quarks

After the ratings/viewers for Flash and Supergirl came in, I saw some jokes on Twitter that everything should be leaked, heh. And the (minor) spoilers accidentally released for Star Wars this week seem to have increased excitement for the film.

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tv echo

tv echo

ARROW’S “BEYOND REDEMPTION” (S4,EP4): 6 RANDOM OBSERVATIONS
Posted on October 30, 2015 by Kelly Konda
http://weminoredinfilm.com/2015/10/30/arrows-beyond-redemption-s4ep4-6-random-observations/

Laurel has Sara chained up in her apartment’s basement, and talks to her the way one would speak to small, dull child (or possibly a dog).  She drags Quentin down there, giving him no warning about what to expect.  He’s understandably horrified to see a version of Sara that is a closer to a feral animal than a human.  Laurel shows her an old family picture and says, “Who’s that?  Who’s that?  Is that daddy?” pointing between the picture and Quentin.  The camera cuts to Quentin cracking a hopeful smile.  Sara mutters her first words, “Who am I?”  Laurel reacts with extreme glee, turning to her dad and excitedly proclaiming, “She’s speaking because she’s remembering!”
 

Then this happens:
arrow-beyond-redemption-bad-line2.jpg?w=
It was one of the funniest sequences I have ever seen on Arrow.  The problem was that it wasn’t supposed to be funny.  It’s supposed to be gut-wrenching.
 

I argued last week that the problem with this storyline is that we aren’t getting any kind of glimpse into Laurel’s thought process, and we still aren’t. Laurel’s behaving in such a clearly deluded fashion that we don’t empathize with her emotional turmoil but instead laugh when soul-less Sara chokes that insane optimism right out of her.
*  *  *
I’m probably in the minority on this, but I thought Amell and Blackthorne should have been pulled back just a tad during Oliver and Quentin’s big confrontation.  It was an effective scene, but the fluctuating sound of Blackthorne’s voice along with his frequent little pauses between certain words came off a little hammy to me.  I felt like I was watching an actor play out a big dramatic scene rather than watching Quentin have an emotional breakdown in front of Oliver.  Of course, those are one and the same, but I was more aware of the former than usual.
*  *  *
[Lexi Alexander] gave the people what they wanted: shirtless Stephen Amell back on the salmon ladder!  Or that was already in script, and it was complete coincidence that she drew the straw to direct the episode with that scene in it.  Either way, it was fantastic, but also a refreshing example of how Arrow has absorbed Oliver and Felicity’s relationship into its universe, working in moments of intimacy without dwelling too heavily on it.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Paul Blackthorne received an Honorable Mention in this week's TVLine's Performer of the Week.

http://tvline.com/2015/10/31/elizabeth-henstridge-performance-agents-of-shield-4722-hours-season-3/

HONORABLE MENTION | A father’s love for his daughter is a powerful thing, and never have we felt that more on Arrow than in Wednesday’s episode as Lance struggled with the resurrection of his youngest child, Sara. Looking into the eyes of his now feral “baby,” with his gun aimed at her, Paul Blackthorne brought to life the inner turmoil and terror eating up the Captain. But it was Blackthorne’s emotionally conflicted performance during a heated confrontation with Oliver, the man Lance had laid so much blame upon, that reminded us that in this world of flashy superheroes, the common man and his pain is every bit as mighty.

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