Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[KimberStormer]

On 5/24/2020 at 7:28 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Check out this cool challenge in Gabon.

The goalies at the bottom of the hill are blindfolded and have to be guided by callers.

I love this challenge, especially because Randy starts yelling "go left Ace!" to make Ace, who was on the other team, go the wrong way.  Randy is indeed racist and misogynist and a terrible guy but I can't help but find him extremely entertaining and that kind of challenge creativity is always one of my favorite things.

On 5/25/2020 at 9:21 PM, Lantern7 said:

Was there any part of Gabon that fans can agree on liking?

I don't think there is, although there's a lot people can agree on hating!  I do like SUGAR, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.  Was she the first Ox since Boston Rob in All-Stars?  I think she might be the only self-aware Ox ever?  (Except maybe Mr. Schneebly, but then he was playing Fake Survivor with the Final 4 firemaking so that doesn't count.)  Even Jonny Fairplay, I feel sure, thought he was going to win.  The thing I like about her is the thing I like about Abi: everyone thinks they can make a goat out of her, but instead of dutifully following orders Agent Philip style, she crushes them all one by one instead.  Sugar's Gabon game is fascinating to me, and one I wish more goats would have emulated.

On 5/27/2020 at 10:00 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm onto Tocantins now.  (I'm randomly watching seasons I feel like in (somewhat) chronological order, and I finish them pretty fast, within a few days each).  This cast is EXTREMELY good-looking, full of model-esque people.  Candace, J.T., Tyson, Erin, Sierra, Brendan.  Carolina.  Joe looks like the Dillon brothers.  etc.

Astonishingly good-looking cast, and many of them extremely charismatic too.  Even Coach is a very handsome man if he wouldn't open his mouth.  My theory is they needed to cast these amazing looking people so Taj's star power wouldn't be quite so overwhelming/obvious.  Thanks to the Timbira colors, I think Sierra and Erinn have no peer for island style, except maybe Parv on HvV.  They made it work for them.

On 5/27/2020 at 1:35 PM, enchantingmonkey said:

What was the audience's impression of Tony during Cagayan?  Good, bad?  I'm re-watching that season now.  

I think it was one of those Russell Hantz situations where most people here (or at TWOP or wherever we were then) hated him but people in the real world overwhelmingly loved him for being a "character".  I don't just mean so-called "casual fans", but like Rob and Stephen, and all of reddit, just adored him, and if I go so far as to hint there might be some patriarchal element to that, well, I'm sure they'd be mad at me, but...

21 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I know that people have spoken about how popular and charismatic JT was in this season, but it's ridiculous.  Everyone is obsessed with gaining favour with him, even if it would not help them at all.

I feel my JT-senses tingling, but unless people want me to, I won't rhapsodize about this, but surely it is the greatest social game ever played?

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Stephen made a fatal mistake by answering Debbie's FTC question honestly, I think.  he should have lied and said he would take JT to the final 2 100%.  Everyone in that game had lied, so why should FTC be any different?

JT and Stephen played basically the same game, although Stephen betrayed Taj way harder.  I thought it was really snake-like for JT to vote for (Erinn?) when he knew Coach was going home just so Coach wouldn't be mad at him for it.

Snake-like, perhaps, but also another example of amazing JT gameplay.  He didn't just rest on his charm.  I think also (trying not to rhapsodize, trying not to rhapsodize) it was less Stephen's mistake and more JT going in for the kill with his totally baloney "I thought you were my friend" hurt-and-betrayed nonsense.  Stephen, I think, didn't realize the game was still being played (he thought when Probst says "now the power shifts" that means he doesn't have to work anymore), but JT was still playing as hard as he could.  Was it maybe gratuitously running up the score on Stephen?  Maybe, but you can't know you're going to win, you gotta do everything you can.

[Ms Blue Jay]

JT mopped the floor with Stephen at FTC 😩   I just feel bad for Stephen.  He got devoured.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

45 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

I think it was one of those Russell Hantz situations where most people here (or at TWOP or wherever we were then) hated him but people in the real world overwhelmingly loved him for being a "character".  I don't just mean so-called "casual fans", but like Rob and Stephen, and all of reddit, just adored him, and if I go so far as to hint there might be some patriarchal element to that, well, I'm sure they'd be mad at me, but...

I think that this is correct.  Well, for the most part.  I'm a staunch feminist who loves Russell and Tony, so, I'm sure you'd say I'm "blinded by the patriarchy" but I'm not sure I agree.  There's a lot of alpha male players I DON'T like that are popular with everyone else, etc.  I think it's more that I favour humour and weird and outlandish personalities over typical bros or fratty types or All-American Supermen types, etc.  And I would never use Reddit.  😇

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Daisy]

4 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I believe that's correct.

Stephen didn't like it one bit either, and was clearly still scarred by it when faced with another golden boy (Joe) in Second Chance.

This reminiscing over Tocantins JT just makes harder to think about Game Changers JT. He had lost all of that charm and appeal and came off quite badly.

 

to be honest, he lost it in HvV. 

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Stacy talks about Coach Benjamin, Chuckie the Cheese

As for Stephen and JT . . . I believe Stephen nearly killed himself in the last two episodes of his second season because he did not want to go down as the guy who lost a unanimous vote to JT.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Lantern7

[KimberStormer]

Wait I just realized what we all can agree to like in Gabon: the elephants!

[SVNBob]

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I do like SUGAR, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.  Was she the first Ox since Boston Rob in All-Stars?  I think she might be the only self-aware Ox ever?

I'm pretty sure the answer to both these questions is yes.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I like almost everyone in Gabon.  I don't like Corinne, but she isn't as bad as legend tells, and Randy was just awful.  Matty looks like Leonardo DiCaprio from certain angles, as crazy as that sounds.  Sugar was really charming.  I just really think that the structure of the season was insanely convoluted because Koda was so much better than Fang, and it doesn't seem fair that Fang got so far in the game.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[KimberStormer]

I think to grasp the hate people have for the Onions, like Corinne, you need to watch Gabon Ponderosa.  They edited them very kindly on the show.

11 hours ago, SVNBob said:

I'm pretty sure the answer to both these questions is yes.

Looking at the list of seasons, I think it depends on what you think about Stephenie in Guatemala, whether she was an Ox or just Rafe's goat.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm onto Heroes versus Villains now.  Does anyone remember when Rob is strapped into one of those Gladiator globes, so his hands are tied, and their tribe wins the challenge, and Parvati screams and tries to high five him, and he responds "I can't do anything".  It's so funny.

JT's distrust of every single woman he encounters (Cirie, Courtney, etc.) is so not fun to watch right after Tocantins.  All of these personalities together reveal some ugly things.

Jeff and Colby must be friends outside the show by this time, right?  Just a feeling I get from how Jeff speaks to him.

I also hate how overly physical these challenges are because someone is injured basically every other episode.  Rob almost died in the forest.  Jesus lord

I know that everyone hates James in HvV because of the way he talked to Stephenie (although, she did singlehandedly screw up that challenge, IMO) but I forgot how sweet the friendship between Amanda and James was here after 2 back to back seasons of playing together.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[fishcakes]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Matty looks like Leonardo DiCaprio from certain angles, as crazy as that sounds.

I think so too. He looks like a cross between DiCaprio and Matt Damon to me.

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I think to grasp the hate people have for the Onions, like Corinne, you need to watch Gabon Ponderosa.  They edited them very kindly on the show.

Sadly, that's probably true. They got a kind edit and they still looked like a bag of dicks, especially Corinne with her jury question to Sugar and Marcus with his massive sense of entitlement.

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Jeff and Colby must be friends outside the show by this time, right?  Just a feeling I get from how Jeff speaks to him.

I think the bromance was over by that time. They were good friends after Outback and used to hang out together, but by HvV, they seemed to be pretty snippy with each other. I vaguely remember Colby being impatient to start a challenge and Jeff giving him a "we'll go when I say we go, brother," and then Colby looking disgusted. So sad when love goes wrong.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Matty has a crooked nose which I didn't notice until my second time watching, but he's still gorgeous.  I never bothered to watch Gabon FTC, but maybe I should.

James is so mean to Colby at Tribal Council.  I can't believe how harsh he is.

James:  You were one of the baddest Survivors ever growing up.
Colby:  I'm not THAT old!

(LOL James is THREE YEARS YOUNGER than him!!!!!)

Parv also calls Jerri a bitter old cougar (who says she is 38 during filming, and Parv is only 8 years younger)

27 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I think the bromance was over by that time. They were good friends after Outback and used to hang out together, but by HvV, they seemed to be pretty snippy with each other. I vaguely remember Colby being impatient to start a challenge and Jeff giving him a "we'll go when I say we go, brother," and then Colby looking disgusted. So sad when love goes wrong.

That's why I thought that they were joking around because Probst was SO over the top!!!  But hey maybe you're right and it was a broken heart.

I can't help but be curious over Colby's love life / personal life after watching him straight up reject Jerri in S2 and straight up reject Sugar in S20.  This guy just wants to be left alone.

In HvV 20-07 Rob says "I was born at night, but not last night" and he also says it in 39-07, because they named an actual episode after it.  Lame.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[fishcakes]

19 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I can't help but be curious over Colby's love life / personal life after watching him straight up reject Jerri in S2 and straight up reject Sugar in S20.  This guy just wants to be left alone.

He's married now to Britt Bailey who is an apparently semi-famous former model, but hell if I know.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

He's married now to Britt Bailey who is an apparently semi-famous former model, but hell if I know.

Oh my god!  Wow.  I tried to look but couldn't find that.  He looks weird in that pic.  I used to pay a lot of attention to fashion/models in 90s and 2000s and never heard of her, personally.  But good for him!

Also, holy crap:

Quote

Donaldson inspired Survivor: Caramoan contestant Sherri Biethman to name her son after him.[11] It is estimated that over 2,000 babies were given the name Colby in 2001 because of Donaldson's popularity.[12]

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Daisy]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

JT's distrust of every single woman he encounters (Cirie, Courtney, etc.) is so not fun to watch right after Tocantins.  All of these personalities together reveal some ugly things.

 

 

it was really pathetic. especially because it was Russell who totally slammed him down,in HvV trust wise but he focused everything on the women that season and gamechangers. it was crazy

[Ms Blue Jay]

So as soon as Boston Rob is voted out of the Villains tribe in HvV, Rupert says "It's a woman's alliance!" based on no evidence. Hahhahahahahahaaha. Idiot.

And that preys right into JT's distrust of women in general and he totally buys it.

Did Rupert even have a broken toe all through HvV?  Or was he trying to take attention away from Stephenie's shoulder dislocation?  He didn't want to be around her from the first minute.  Stephenie saying "Maybe I threaten his popularity" makes me want to watch Palau and Guatemala as I really have no recollection of those seasons.  I definitely never watched Guatemala.

Had any of Samoa aired before HvV?  Had any of the Heroes or Villains seen the way Russell operates before that season?   Russell should have gotten that tooth replaced.  He should have enough money for it - doesn't he work in oil?

I totally forgot about Coach and Jerri's romance, and Sandra and Courtney's friendship is very cute too.

This season is going to be re-fascinating for me, because how THE HELL did Sandra win after being completely on the bottom?  God.  It's ridiculous.  So many people suggest voting out Sandra and they're always right but no one listens.

Coach Jury Fashion 101:

Edited May 30, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[KimberStormer]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

So as soon as Boston Rob is voted out of the Villains tribe in HvV, Rupert says "It's a woman's alliance!" based on no evidence. Hahhahahahahahaaha. Idiot.

And that preys right into JT's distrust of women in general and he totally buys it.

I don't think it's no evidence as much as it's evidence that is analyzed completely wrong.  I can't think of any other season where the first boots on any tribe are all men, especially not extremely strong challenge performers like Tyson and Rob, and challenge liabilities like Sandra and Courtney are kept in.  And I think the Heroes in particular were mostly chosen for their "survival" and challenge focus (I can't think of any reason Candice could possibly be counted a Hero except for her performance in the hold-the-pole challenge, for example) over and above game focus.  Cirie wasn't a Hero because she pulled off incredible moves but because she "got off the couch" and learned to live on the island; Tom and Colby and James were challenge beasts, etc.  It's also true that, for whatever reason, everyone on HvV was obsessed with Micronesia.  If you can find the old pre-game interviews anywhere, basically every single dude in the game said they had to get rid of Parvati first.  Otherwise the women's alliance might humiliate them, as it had Ozzy!  They were primed to look for it, and there was no evidence to contradict it!  You can easily imagine the thinking: Randy is an easy first boot to sell because he's older (therefore "weak" even though he's actually a low-key challenge beast) and has no pre-game alliances because he hates everyone, then the women have the numbers and can Pagong the men with ease, starting with people who can win individual immunity like Tyson and Rob.  Everything they can see from their side, with no insight into the tribe dynamics, follows pretty naturally their pre-established idea of "Look out!  Women!"

It's especially amazing because so much of it is actually pure chance.  If the Villains had lost the double immunity challenge reward, the Heroes would have watched the tribal where Tyson goes home after Parvati plays her idol, and the women's alliance they had constructed in their imaginations would disappear.  If Sandra had not played Russell like a fiddle, she or Courtney goes home instead of Coach, and again, poof goes the women's alliance idea.  But by happenstance it all worked out in favor of keeping these dudes' silly sexism alive, and the EEEEVIL PARVATI WOMEN PLOT castle in the air just got more and more elaborately decorated.  Therefore it is so delightful when it is exactly this imaginary scenario that they have dreamed up which leads them to make the mistake, and give that very Parvati the means to make that imaginary plot real, and destroy them one by one, starting with the most clever and sexist one of all, JT... could any novelist have written it better??

Edited May 30, 2020 by KimberStormer

[Ms Blue Jay]

48 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

It's especially amazing because so much of it is actually pure chance.  If the Villains had lost the double immunity challenge reward, the Heroes would have watched the tribal where Tyson goes home after Parvati plays her idol, and the women's alliance they had constructed in their imaginations would disappear.  

The Villians got to watch the Heroes' tribal, but they did not get to watch any of the actual voting or playing of the idols.  JUST the speaking out loud beforehand.  The villains were forced to leave before any of that anyway.  So the Heroes, even if they had won, would have no idea of these machinations.

Trying to watch Palau first episode.  Where's Wanda's song?  It's not here.  Is it in deleted scenes or something?

Edited May 30, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, Daisy said:

it was really pathetic. especially because it was Russell who totally slammed him down,in HvV trust wise but he focused everything on the women that season and gamechangers. it was crazy

OMG!  JT gets voted out and says "Don't EVER trust women.  Ever, ever, ever."

[SVNBob]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

So as soon as Boston Rob is voted out of the Villains tribe in HvV, Rupert says "It's a woman's alliance!" based on no evidence. Hahhahahahahahaaha. Idiot.

In Rupert's defense (a phrase that's a little funny to say), he never flat out says that there is a "women's alliance".  He says it looks like there's a women's alliance.  Which is distinctly different.

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I don't think it's no evidence as much as it's evidence that is analyzed completely wrong.  I can't think of any other season where the first boots on any tribe are all men, especially not extremely strong challenge performers like Tyson and Rob, and challenge liabilities like Sandra and Courtney are kept in. 

Precisely.  That's why the "women's alliance" exchanges are part of my defense of the Idol Pass play.  As is the following fact, related to Rupert's observations:

While we the audience are able to see the machinations and plotting on both sides in the tribal phase, the players are not.  All they know about what is going on in the other tribe is what they see when everyone shows up at the next challenge.  But unless a tribe says why they voted someone out right then, or Peachy mentions there was an evac or quit, the reasoning is guesswork until revealed later (either at the merge/swap, or by watching the season like us.)

While we viewers knew the "women's alliance" was not a thing, the Heroes did not.  However, it was a reasonable and logical assumption based on the pattern of Villains voted off, and the presence of Parvati, the leader of the most successful all-female alliance to date.

[fishcakes]

10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Trying to watch Palau first episode.  Where's Wanda's song?  It's not here.  Is it in deleted scenes or something?

It's in the episode (though I've heard that depending on where you watch, you might get an edited episode). She starts singing it as the boat is mercifully taking her away.

10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

OMG!  JT gets voted out and says "Don't EVER trust women.  Ever, ever, ever."

Right? Russell played him, then openly and accurately mocked him for being a dumb shit, but JT's takeaway is that the women are to blame. Not even Parvati in particular who was the one to idol him out, but all women. JT is a neanderthal.

Edited May 30, 2020 by fishcakes

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, fishcakes said:

It's in the episode (though I've heard that depending on where you watch, you might get an edited episode). She starts singing it as the boat is mercifully taking her away.

I found it!  Crazy thing is, I have one copy with the song, and one copy without.

Rupert's dramatics in HvV are so funny.  He acts like he's the star of his own Pirate love story the entire time he's out here.

Russell just looked in his face and called him "The second coming of Christ."  😄.   In a talking head Russell says "Get your tie dye ready cuz you're going home."  😄

How can people on the bottom of a merged tribe give up the chance to win Immunity for food?  You'll be having food in 24 hours because you'll get voted out!  

Rupert's wife looks like a skinnier Camryn Manheim.  

Edited May 30, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

I just keep Googling "Why did Sandra win HvV". "Why did people vote for Sandra in HvV".  "Why didn't Parvati win HvV".  I guess people really hated Russell that much.

I am enjoying the hell out of Rupert's speech at FTC.  It's so fun.  

Coach voting after FTC:  "King Arthur's journey has officially ended."

Jeff is so handsome at the Reunion.  He should really lay off the Botox.  And I love how Courtney calls him "Jeffrey".

Also, my jaw has DROPPED:

Edited May 31, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[fishcakes]

42 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Also, my jaw has DROPPED:

She also said she thought about committing suicide at Ponderosa, and it seems like it was at least partly because of JT. But it doesn't sound like she actually tried, just that she piled up a bunch of aspirin and then got evacuated.

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

She also said she thought about committing suicide at Ponderosa, and it seems like it was at least partly because of JT. But it doesn't sound like she actually tried, just that she piled up a bunch of aspirin and then got evacuated.

Oh my god.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm watching Nicaragua.

Jeff:  If you are 40 and older, you are over here.

If you are 30 and younger, you're over here.

 

I really did not remember/realize/know that people in their 30s were not allowed on Survivor Nicaragua.

On Episode 2, NaOnka has used like 3 separate phrases that Sandra is famous for.  This is soooooooo weird.  

Edited May 31, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[enchantingmonkey]

On 5/31/2020 at 12:57 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I just keep Googling "Why did Sandra win HvV". "Why did people vote for Sandra in HvV".  "Why didn't Parvati win HvV".  I guess people really hated Russell that much.

Sandra's ability to make it to FTC was the one of the main reasons I stayed interested in the show post-merge.  She couldn't get the Heroes to work with her to save her life, and she didn't have any real allies once Courtney was booted.  I knew she was was going to win but I was still curious how she'd survive each Tribal.  I think Russell had convinced himself that no one would award her the million for a second time, and didn't view her as a real threat.  

That jury was brutal on Russell.  I'm sure I was loving it when it originally aired but I felt a little bad for him on re-watch.  Russell is an ass but I didn't think his game play was that outrageous.  He was so annoying trying to explain why he should have won during the Reunion show, though.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

59 minutes ago, enchantingmonkey said:

  I think Russell had convinced himself that no one would award her the million for a second time, and didn't view her as a real threat.  

Yeah, he said that out loud.

But I couldn't believe that Parvati didn't win instead of her.  It was hard to fathom.

59 minutes ago, enchantingmonkey said:

That jury was brutal on Russell.  I'm sure I was loving it when it originally aired but I felt a little bad for him on re-watch.  Russell is an ass but I didn't think his game play was that outrageous.  He was so annoying trying to explain why he should have won during the Reunion show, though.  

Rupert acted like Russell was the worst person to ever exist, so I'm sure he did a number on the jury in Ponderosa.

The funny thing is, Rupert was perfectly willing to try to work with Russell after every single vote because he was on the bottom.  And Russell just kept lying to him and coming right back and Rupert would always accept it.  Then once Rupert was voted out, Russell was somehow suddenly the worst person on Earth.  I mean, I guess that's necessary to play the game, but he didn't seem so upset about Russell until suddenly he was on the jury.  Rupert builds up a lot of drama in his head and comes to insane conclusions.  Another example is when he said Sue was after Richard Hatch's money on All Stars.  If Sue was all about the benjamins then why did she quit the game?  Oh no, not because she was traumatized, lord no!  Not a lying woman!  That could never be!  Also, Sue deserved more than 1 million for that (my opinion) and it's not like Rich had the money anyway.

I'm so glad I looked up why Benry from Nicaragua is named Benry.  He's actually named Ben Henry.  That really relieves my brain.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

22 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

But I couldn't believe that Parvati didn't win instead of her.  It was hard to fathom.

I feel like I remember it coming out that Parvati was more of an asshole/was employing Russell-like tactics right along with him than was shown.

Plus, Sandra is just very likable and persuasive at FTC.

[fishcakes]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I feel like I remember it coming out that Parvati was more of an asshole/was implying Russell like- tactics right along with him than was shown.

Plus, Sandra is just very likable and persuasive at FTC.

A couple of people said that more than once Parvati read JT's letter to Russell out loud in a mocking way to the rest of the tribe.

And Sandra is always great at FTC. She comes across as very truthful and humble, for example, in Pearl Islands when she turned to Lil and said, "it's okay, now you have to say something bad about me." She was good at explaining what her game was (trying to flip to the Heroes), why it didn't work (because the Heroes were dumb, but she said it nicely), and what she had to do then (be stuck with Russell). So even though she was technically allied with Russell, she didn't have his stink on her the Parvati did.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I totally agree with Parv that she had to be aligned to Russell to make it to the end of the game.  I mean, the proof is in the pudding.  Maybe she could have gone to the end in another way - maybe - but she also didn't know how or who Russell was.  But she was a target from the beginning.  I thought she had good gameplay in HvV personally.

I skipped S22 and S23 and now I'm watching S24 and Jeff isn't even showing up to all of the challenges.  It's so weird.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hera]

I think the fault in Parvati's gameplay in Heroes vs. Villains was that she stuck with Russell for too long. I think she understood that he was a goat (and that Sandra wasn't), but underestimated the extent to which his stink was rubbing off on her. Her situation was further complicated by the fact that she and Sandra were both former winners, and Russell went straight from filming Samoa to Heroes vs. Villains, and didn't know he had lost his first season. I'm sure he told everyone that he had won Samoa handily. I think that Parvati was probably right in figuring that the best way of keeping her previous win from being held against her was by going to the end with other former winners. This means that if she didn't want Russell, she would have had to keep JT (since all the other former winners on the Heroes tribe were voted out before the merge), who didn't want to work with her, and she also would have needed to make that choice right at the merge.

Hindsight's 20/20, but she might have been better off slitting Russell's throat sometime around the Candice vote, and then cultivating either Jerri and/or Danielle as her henchmen, taking them to the end as coattail riders.

[fishcakes]

I don't think Parvati could have gotten to the end without Russell. She was such a target that first she needed him as a number and later (as his personality emerged to the others) as a shield. If she takes him out when there's still a sufficient number of Heroes left in the game, she becomes the number one target again. If she waits, then she's complicit with his Russellness. Also, because the jury included JT, Colby, Rupert, and Coach, if she'd tried to disavow Russell, then those idiots would have been like, "yon Goody Proctor hast bewitched and abandoned poor Mr. Hantz. Stone her!" She just didn't have a lot of good options that season.

[KimberStormer]

I believe there was only one way for Parvati to win the game, at that is to be at the Final 3 with Russell and Danielle.  And I believe everything was exactly in place to achieve that outcome and there was no way she could possibly lose barring some idol shenanigans, except for the fact that Russell is too fucking dumb to know what's good for him.  Because the beauty of that F3 is that it is certainly the best F3 for all three of them.  Parv wins because everyone hates Danielle for no reason and Russell for every reason.  Russell gets a vote or two because JT and a couple other Heroes are sexist jerks who would be mad they got outplayed by girls.  Danielle might even get a vote from someone who just hated Parv and Russell that much.  I imagine Parvati would get Jerri, Coach, Courtney, Sandra, Amanda (no way would Amanda vote Danielle), possibly Rupert or Candice (her obnoxious "battered woman" analogy would surely go just as much for Danielle) or Colby.  Russell maybe JT, Rupert or Colby.  Danielle could maybe get Colby or someone, one of those Hero dopes who were barely even playing.   And there would be, in that final scenario, just no question at all that Parv is the best to ever play the game and so I would be a much happier KimberStormer indeed.  Unfortunately Russell is so fucking stupid he voted out Danielle, who had to be there for him to get a single vote, and so he did not, in fact, get a single vote.

I think Jerri would have wiped the floor with Parv and Danielle, and that also would leave me a much happier KimberStormer, because she played an amazing, amazing game in HvV, and deserves credit for it, which she never got.  Unlike Sandra, who fell ass-backward into it, Jerri had her eyes on the prize and made really good choices all the way along to get herself to the end -- my only concern is if she had won final immunity, she apparently would have booted Parvati (because she was, to her moral credit if not to her game awareness credit, most impressed with Parvati and saw her as the biggest threat) and that means she would have lost to Sandra.  I long to see the Jerri wins, redemption edit, where her moves were better highlighted, and I long for the world where Parvati was unquestioned as the best, and Sandra considered a sleeper highlight character for the discerning fan instead of everyone pretending she was the Obvious Best Ever for like a decade because of the bullshit, meaningless metric of going 2-for-2.

Anyway, I feel like the Heroes' questions for her were always in the format "my question is, you should have lost on purpose so I could win!" and I don't think any Hero was ever going to vote for Parv unless they had essentially no choice in the matter. 

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

... Sandra considered a sleeper highlight character for the discerning fan instead of everyone pretending she was the Obvious Best Ever for like a decade because of the bullshit, meaningless metric of going 2-for-2.

I wanna live in the world where everyone considered Sandra the best ever! It sounds more fun than the world where everyone considered Rob the best ever even though he couldn't win in 4 tries lol.

This further proves the theory I came up with that when you hate someone they seem more liked than they probably actually were and when you love someone they seem more hated than they actually were. 

[Growsonwalls]

One thing about Sandra that i notice she does in FTC is that she drops the game cutthroat persona and goes back to her out-of-game persona which (as far as I can tell) is actually rather nice, mellow, and sociable. Not many people are able to turn that cuthroat switch on and off the way Sandra does. It's like she convinces people that the cutthroat Sandra is gone and she's a mom/wife trying to do the best for her family. And the jury bought it both times. 

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Fun-filled endurance mission in San Juan del Sur. Special focus on Wes' love of poultry in nugget form!

[AncientNewbie]

Current rewatch has taken me into S12. I'm surprised by both how many things I remember and how many things I would believe I have never seen before.

Usually I dislike bickering/dramatic people promoted as plot development but this group is so over the top that it's hard to see them as people and not some actors working from a very weird script.

[Ms Blue Jay]

S12, I liked soooooo much on rewatch.  Now it's one of my favourites!  Definitely in my top 10.

I'm watching the first few episodes of South Pacific.  I probably won't be able to continue.  Brandon Hantz is speaking like a rapist the whole time.  The mere PRESENCE of Mikayla makes him crazy and he keeps saying things like

- she's tempting me to do things I don't want to do
- she's a threat to my marriage and my family
- I don't like her and she needs to be voted off of the tribe

The whole time Mikayla is NOT. DOING. ANYTHING!

I know that this won't be news to anyone, but Survivor has been disgusting about sexual harassment from the beginning, not just with the Dan season.  And the fact that the casting people BROUGHT BRANDON BACK for another season.  It's horrific!

(Oh, I'm halfway through episode 2.  Wow.  I had felt like I had watched several episodes of this shit already.)

Edited June 8, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

@fishcakes I can't find your recent post about it, but I know you were talking about it.  I finally saw the famous FUCK YOU BRAD CULPEPPER moment.  Season 27, Blood versus Water.

Marissa (Gervase's niece):  Difficult?  It should be EASY!  You should vote out the weakest person to help the tribe.  You voted out two strong people already, hence, the reason why you lost!

Brad Culpepper:   We're playing Survivor, Babe.  Maybe it was more to it than that.

Marissa (pointing directly at Brad):  FUCK YOU, BRAD CULPEPPER!

Candace:  (Laughing adorably)

Gervase:  HEY HEY YO YO.  Marissa, Tone it down.  No, no, tone it down.

Marissa:  (points at Brad and says something else that is unfortunately censored.  LOL.)

Colton:  (is visibly distraught)

Gervase:  Hey.  Stay focused on what you gotta do out here.

Jeff:  (is amused)

And then, get this, Colton IMMEDIATELY STARTS CRYING.

😆

Edited June 9, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[fishcakes]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

@fishcakes I can't find your recent post about it, but I know you were talking about it.  I finally saw the famous FUCK YOU BRAD CULPEPPER moment.  Season 27, Blood versus Water.

All these years, I had it stuck in my head that it was Candice who said it, maybe because there was another duel, where Candice walked in giving him the middle finger.

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And then, get this, Colton IMMEDIATELY STARTS CRYING.

😆

Ha, that was great. He was so upset no one was paying attention to him that he quit the game.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

All these years, I had it stuck in my head that it was Candice who said it, maybe because there was another duel, where Candice walked in giving him the middle finger.

Ha, that was great. He was so upset no one was paying attention to him that he quit the game.

Candice gets really mad at him at the subsequent challenges and that is ALSO really funny.  I think I missed the middle finger because stupid CBS had to blur it out for the sake of my virgin eyes.  Although, later on Monica talks about how hard it is that some's giving her husband the middle finger.

Jeff says something like, "And you don't even know Brad Culpepper."

And Candice says yeah, it's from what other people are telling me.  LOL.

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

All these years, I had it stuck in my head that it was Candice who said it, maybe because there was another duel, where Candice walked in giving him the middle finger.

Ha, that was great. He was so upset no one was paying attention to him that he quit the game.

I'm about 2/3 near done the season, and it's a really interesting season where people aren't toxic.

- A lot of people said that Vytas was an asshole, but I don't really see it.  Do you guys mean to Aras, because that I sort of get.  If you mean to the rest of the cast, then that I don't get, because if someone blindsided my brother I'd be a raging bitch too.  Maybe it's coming at FTC.  I'm excited.
- I know Ciera voted out her mother, but meh, I don't really care about those two.  

Colton tried so hard to be an asshole "causing chaos" and because Aras is such a touchy feely "positive thinker" yoga guy, nobody fed into it.  Colton got soooooooooooooo mad and finally started crying and left the game.  It's soooooooo damn funny!

I don't know why Marissa cussing out Brad Culpepper finally made him lose it.  Was it that nobody was being passive aggressive, everyone instead was either being completely nice or aggressive aggressive directly right to people's faces?  LOL!

Also, I LOVE seeing Gervase and I love Gervase and Tyson's friendship.  Watching Gervase and his weird regional accent ("Now, come awwwwwwwwwwn") feels like watching a member of my family or an old friend.  The feelings I have for some of those Pagongers is so nostalgic and strong.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[fishcakes]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

- A lot of people said that Vytas was an asshole, but I don't really see it.  Do you guys mean to Aras, because that I sort of get.  If you mean to the rest of the cast, then that I don't get, because if someone blindsided my brother I'd be a raging bitch too.  Maybe it's coming at FTC.  I'm excited.

Vytas didn't seem to care about Aras at all. There was that one scene where Jeff is asking them if playing the game together has helped to heal their relationship and Aras is all tearful and looking at Vytas in this super sad "boy needs his big brother's approval and love" sort of way, and Vytas just keeps being an angry asshole. But then Vytas reads the room and sees how everyone is sort of disgusted with him and he immediately puts on this fake loving persona.

Also there was his confessional about how he likes to tell women about his drug addiction and how he went to prison for robbing someone at an ATM because "women love a bad boy." He had seemingly no remorse about how he terrorized someone and stole from them; he was more about how could he use the story to his advantage. Sociopath.

Then when he came back for Second Chances, I remember him chasing after women and trying to give them back rubs. Also showing off yoga moves which mainly seemed to consist of him thrusting his groin around. In a post-season interview he said something like, "Shirin didn't like me because I wouldn't flirt with her." Yeaaaah, I'm sure that was the reason.

 

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Also, I LOVE seeing Gervase and I love Gervase and Tyson's friendship.  Watching Gervase and his weird regional accent ("Now, come awwwwwwwwwwn") feels like watching a member of my family or an old friend.  The feelings I have for some of those Pagongers is so nostalgic and strong.

 

They're like the original version of Dom and Wendell.

[Ms Blue Jay]

36 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

They're like the original version of Dom and Wendell.

Tyson is such an ASS during this Immunity Reward -- he, Gervase, and Ciera all sit out the Immunity Challenge to feast and Tyson can't help but play it up the ENTIRE TIME -- but I think that it's so funny!  Lady and the Tramp!  LOL!  Jeff says that they're treating the other players like court jesters like "Please amuse me while I eat".  LOL

36 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Vytas didn't seem to care about Aras at all. There was that one scene where Jeff is asking them if playing the game together has helped to heal their relationship and Aras is all tearful and looking at Vytas in this super sad "boy needs his big brother's approval and love" sort of way, and Vytas just keeps being an angry asshole. But then Vytas reads the room and sees how everyone is sort of disgusted with him and he immediately puts on this fake loving persona.

Also there was his confessional about how he likes to tell women about his drug addiction and how he went to prison for robbing someone at an ATM because "women love a bad boy." He had seemingly no remorse about how he terrorized someone and stole from them; he was more about how could he use the story to his advantage. Sociopath.

I totally get it!  And I love Aras too.  Aras is like Mario and Vytas is like Wario.  Definitely the evil version of Aras.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Also, I LOVE seeing Gervase and I love Gervase and Tyson's friendship.  Watching Gervase and his weird regional accent ("Now, come awwwwwwwwwwn") feels like watching a member of my family or an old friend.  The feelings I have for some of those Pagongers is so nostalgic and strong.

Quoting myself - wow!  I never knew Gervase has a HUUUUUGE "Pagong" tattoo all the way down one arm.

I really think S27 is something special in how non-toxic it was.  What a weird season in a sea of real actual toxicity.  I think Monica got somewhat bullied, and that sucked, but in a weird way where I think she was basically bullied for being a really super nice person who can't even help herself, so it just makes her look like an even better person.  But overall, it's a very easy season to watch, and goes down smooth.  I mean Colton was run out of the game FOR being toxic.  What a world!

I would have loved Gervase to get way more respect for his game, and unfortunately, I think he faced a lot of bias.  He is the Fishbach to Tyson's JT.  And that really sucks, you know how I feel about that!  But I guess, I can't have everything.  

The reunion

- Jeff:  "Caleb, what do you see in Colton that we don't?"
- Colton says he was on the AARP tribe.  The leader of the tribe was Aras.  30 or 31 at the time of filming.
- Jeff says that this was one of the "easiest seasons of Survivor".  Marissa starts hyperventilating.  Jeff says "Marissa, you don't know.  There was no rain or anything like that."  Gervase finds this so funny.  More proof that it was an easy season:  Tyson made some remark about how he never went hungry or stopped eating out there.

This reunion is incredibly shocking.  I think Jeff spoke to everyone in the cast.  

Reading about Caleb's death, Tina's son's death, and all the other Survivor related deaths is so awful!

Edited June 10, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[fishcakes]

13 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And I love Aras too.  Aras is like Mario and Vytas is like Wario. 

I never liked Aras until I saw Vytas. With a dick like Vytas for a brother, it's a wonder that Aras turned out as well as he did.

I don't think Monica was bullied so much as she was, I don't know, disregarded. People treated her like she was stupid for sticking with Tyson and Gervase, but it's not like she had a lot of options. They wanted her as an extra vote, but she more than held her own in keeping the alliance afloat; she wasn't very strategic, but she was a challenge monster. But I think she's also kind of a dork? Granted my sole evidence for this is when she lamented that people didn't seem to understand her and she said, "have you never met a neat lady before?" I feel kind of bad for her because I think she's just subsumed her own personality to be secondary to Fuck You Brad Culpepper, and that's become how she relates to the world, but deep down she feels resentment that she doesn't get treated like a person in her own right and is instead just Mrs. Fuck You.

Gervase was an equal partner to Tyson, yet Tyson gets all the credit. This happens a lot (Stephen and JT, Becky and Yul, Hannah and Adam), but in a way it's happened to Gervase twice. Even though he didn't get to the end in Borneo, he and Joel were pushing for Pagong to stay together in a five-person alliance at the merge, but when people talk about it now, they say things like, "Joel was the only one on Pagong who knew they needed an alliance," and that's simply not factual. I suspect that if Joel and Gervase had managed to hold all of Pagong together and get to F2, that Joel would get all the credit. On the other hand, Joel got voted out over Gervase's cow comment, so maybe it evens out.

[Ms Blue Jay]

38 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Gervase was an equal partner to Tyson, yet Tyson gets all the credit. This happens a lot (Stephen and JT, Becky and Yul, Hannah and Adam), but in a way it's happened to Gervase twice. Even though he didn't get to the end in Borneo, he and Joel were pushing for Pagong to stay together in a five-person alliance at the merge, but when people talk about it now, they say things like, "Joel was the only one on Pagong who knew they needed an alliance," and that's simply not factual. I suspect that if Joel and Gervase had managed to hold all of Pagong together and get to F2, that Joel would get all the credit. On the other hand, Joel got voted out over Gervase's cow comment, so maybe it evens out.

Omg, poor Gervase.  I hate this!  I really like the guy and I really liked Blood versus Water.  I thought I would hate those seasons because of all the moaning about ohhh my mother, my daughter my brother wah wah wah but I really enjoyed it.  

I haven't seen Borneo in 100 years, so I guess eventually I will be reliving all of this, cow comments and all.

[AncientNewbie]

Speaking of Aras, and having recently been rewatching S12...after Terry and AB get childishly physical during a reward challenge, Aras mouths off about Terry denigrating women. Soon after we get an apology scene between them.

But...knowing Aras is a bit odd and all, that seems like a really weird random thing to just throw at someone if you're looking for an insult to get under their skin, which is how it's explained away in the apology scene. Does anyone know more?

I mean, I'm not trying to slander Terry, but I wouldn't really be surprised if a macho man of his age and career had some sexist views that he expressed at camp. Or is Aras was just odd enough that his mind would go there as a way to insult someone. It's just such as odd scene as it paints them both in a negative light that, even if you're putting it there to show a heated rivalry between gentlemen, I would root against both. 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Vytas didn't seem to care about Aras at all. There was that one scene where Jeff is asking them if playing the game together has helped to heal their relationship and Aras is all tearful and looking at Vytas in this super sad "boy needs his big brother's approval and love" sort of way, and Vytas just keeps being an angry asshole. But then Vytas reads the room and sees how everyone is sort of disgusted with him and he immediately puts on this fake loving persona.

Also there was his confessional about how he likes to tell women about his drug addiction and how he went to prison for robbing someone at an ATM because "women love a bad boy." He had seemingly no remorse about how he terrorized someone and stole from them; he was more about how could he use the story to his advantage. Sociopath.

Then when he came back for Second Chances, I remember him chasing after women and trying to give them back rubs. Also showing off yoga moves which mainly seemed to consist of him thrusting his groin around. In a post-season interview he said something like, "Shirin didn't like me because I wouldn't flirt with her." Yeaaaah, I'm sure that was the reason.

 

Yeah, Vytas' brand of assholery was more subtle, but it was there no doubt. In addition to all of the above, I seem to recall a scene between Aras and Vytas when they were both on Redemption Island, where Aras said that he would root for Vytas if he got back in the game and Aras didn't, and Vytas said "I can't say the same." wtf???

[kstar821]

23 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Gervase and his weird regional accent

I'm laughing because I'm from Philly.

Nobody's accent was worse than Stephenie.  I knew that was a homegirl before it even showed where she was from. 😂