Criminal Minds Unpopular Opinions

[normasm]

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally don't blame AJ the actress/person for what's become of JJ, and by extension the show. I put the blame for that squarely on the shoulders of Erica Messer, and in conjunction with that the network for giving her such free reign. I think she's a terrible showrunner, and I think if they had fired her when it turned out that she's a terrible showrunner, the recurring theme of the show's decline in quality wouldn't be an axe to grind.

 

If it appears that AJ is getting some of the blame/blowback, IMO that's because she (and JJ) have been the only ones to really benefit from the fact that Erica sucks at her job. People (meaning me) don't like to see favorites so clearly being played, and while I'm sure that EM is a nice enough person and probably even thinks she's doing good work, the proof of the polar opposite is in our complaints.

 

This is also my response to Spared, I never called down AJ, just complained loudly when JJ became a cartoon at the behest of Erica Messer.

 

Oh, in addition, MGG has never written for Criminal Minds. He has directed 8 episodes.

[ForeverAlone]

After Emily's "death" the BAU technically was not down one profiler, because they had newly minted profiler Ashley (unfortunately). They didn't have six profilers until season seven when bringing back Emily and JJ in the roles of profilers. Thankfully they have been basically at five profilers this season, because six was way too much. 

 

I think the writers can continue to add to canon, but the problem comes when the newly written canon contradicts previously written canon. Of course on this show, some characters have more canon contradiction than others (Hotch and Rossi), so when it comes to writing new canon, it's a matter of which version does the writer want to go with. 

[JMO]

After Emily's "death" the BAU technically was not down one profiler, because they had newly minted profiler Ashley (unfortunately). They didn't have six profilers until season seven when bringing back Emily and JJ in the roles of profilers. Thankfully they have been basically at five profilers this season, because six was way too much. 

 

This is a little bit of 'cart-and-horse' (ie, which came first).  But the team did have six profilers when it lost Emily----the audience might have known the character was leaving, but the team didn't.  I recall some dialogue between Hotch and Rossi about whether Seaver was considered fully fledged or not, or if she was even a permanent addition.  So losing Emily put them back to their four fully trained and one 'partially-fledged' profiler.  Ostensibly, when Rossi hired JJ back, he didn't realize Emily was still alive.  But I'd venture he had more confidence in her than he did in Seaver.

 

Having said that, I do agree that 5 profilers is enough, and wish that, if they felt the need to expand the cast, they'd chosen to replace the liaison, or to use Lewis in some other capacity, rather than bringing the team up to six profilers.

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah, if they wanted to hire another female to replace Paget, it would have been better to have a media liaison instead of another profiler. Granted, I liked Alex (particularly with regards to her intellectual friendship with Reid) and Kate, but another profiler was not necessary, and they should have returned to the original configuration (that served the team well in the first five seasons) after Paget left at the end of season seven. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Begging the question----at what point does character development transfer from the writers to the fans?  That is, at what point does it move from 'creating canon' to 'flying in the face of it'?  Do the writers lose the right to create new backstory?  Is backstory set in stone?  Can they add to backstory, as long as they don't change what's come before?  Or have the characters become etched to the point that the fans won't accept that?

 

Interesting question, JMO. I think that backstory should mostly be set in stone, since backstory makes the characters who they are.

 

Hotch told Vincent Perrotta in Natural Born Killer that while some people grow up to be killers, others grow up to catch them, implying (IMO) that he'd become a crime fighter because of an abusive father. Why else would he be so dedicated to his work that Haley walked out on him and took their son with her? He loved her and Jack, but his work was his throughline, and that became even more true after she died. Without the possibility that he'd gotten into law enforcement because his father kicked the shit out of him while his mother did nothing to stop it, who is Aaron Hotchner?

[JMO]

I'm actually asking something different.  I agree that, once put out there, history is history, and should be abided by.  

 

But what I'm really asking is:  At what point do the writers no longer have the right to create additional, even apparently conflicting, backstory?  

 

For example---and I'm totally making this up (obviously)---what if, in the upcoming Morgan arc, we find out that his father wasn't quite the hero Morgan remembers him as?  Does that destroy all of the canon arcs where Morgan related to kids losing their fathers?  Or Morgan's reason for going into law enforcement?  Or does it just make him a more complex character, a boy who couldn't accept the truth?  Is the writer a fool, for not 'following canon', or is the writer free to reinterpret the past, while not quite re-writing it?  

 

Using the Hotch example, what if we find out that he and his father actually had a healthy relationship?  After all, he made an implication, not a statement. What if he just threw those lines at the unsub?  Would a future writer be free to come up with an alternative reason for Hotch to be so driven, as long as it was compelling? Or would that be too hard for fans to accept?

 

I ask these questions because the writers are often criticized for writing the characters 'out-of-character', usually based on backstory.  I think there is an interesting dynamic that leads us, as viewers, to take ownership and become protective of personalities and characters created by others.  It seems like there's a point at which we decide a character is as fully evolved as they ever will be (or we will ever allow them to be), and insist that the writers write them that way.  But does that stifle the character?  Does it stifle the writer?  

 

I don't think there's an absolute answer.  I just find it fascinating.

 

 

 

[MCatry]

I don't like the overwhelming need to put the blame on the actress for JJ's rise to stardom and subsequent decline of the show's quality. I don't care if people don't like the character or how she has changed - I don't particularly either. But I don't think it is fair to blame the actress who has nothing to do with writing or producing the show. Would she like the changes and more screen time? I imagine absolutely -if for no other reason than it would be more protection than being summarily fired for not being young enough. But blaming her for the decline of he quality of the show - when it has been 11 years and the writers have been there for a huge number of years and don't have any original stories? Not fair. Unless AJ Cook has been secretly writing and executive-producing the show for the last 6 years - not her fault.

 

Also there is a disproportionate level of vitriol aimed at JJ/AJ Cook that is not levelled at Morgan/Shemar (who has been doing the same thing since day 1) or Hotch/Thomas (who also directs the show on occasion) or Matthew Gubler(who has written episodes since season 5). Plus, Prentiss used to bust down doors with Morgan - not much of a difference.

 

I'm not saying people need to love JJ. I don't like Morgan, Garcia or Gideon. I preferred JJ before season 6. But I am saying the actress does not deserve the blame for the way the show is going/how her character has been written.

 

1- Don't confuse JJ, the character, with Cook, the actress. Quite a few fans here hate JJ, not Cook. I don't know her, so I don't hate her nor care about her. 

2- Quite a few fans here and there blame Messer and her creative decisions for the decline of the show, being one of them choosing JJ to be a prominent character, but also for her choices in the writing staff and her influence in dismissing all the canon the show had up to season six.

3- Writers: they haven't been there for 11 years. The writers staff for the first five years is not the bunch of people that write for CM nowadays (I don't think they deserve being called 'writers').

4- I don't know what you mean when you said the anger towards Morgan/Shemar doesn't match the hate for JJ/Cook. What do you mean with "who has been doing the same thing since day 1"? Doing what? kicking doors? being part of the main cast? he was hired to do that, so he hasn't changed. Maybe that's why he doesn't get as many complaints, to say the least.

5- "... Hotch/Thomas (who also directs the show on occasion)...". Are you saying we should hate this character because the actor that plays him directed a few episodes? Directing an episode does give you some creative decisions about how to film a story, not to write it, design the dialogues, and choose characters to tell the story. When you direct an episode, you can choose the guest cast, (up to certain extent), and choose how to film the scenes, and with the writer you will also edit the final product. And that's it. So, again, why, according to you, should be angry with the character/actor to the same extent than the one you imply for JJ?

6- Gubler never wrote anything for this show. He directed episodes, and he also holds a filming school degree. Again, writing is not the same as directing. 

7- "Prentiss used to bust down doors with Morgan"; True, but she did that since day one. She didn't turn into a ninja in half a year.

8- I think that currently the worst character is Garcia, and I totally blame the actress for the way she delivers her lines. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I ask these questions because the writers are often criticized for writing the characters 'out-of-character', usually based on backstory.  I think there is an interesting dynamic that leads us, as viewers, to take ownership and become protective of personalities and characters created by others.  It seems like there's a point at which we decide a character is as fully evolved as they ever will be (or we will ever allow them to be), and insist that the writers write them that way.  But does that stifle the character?  Does it stifle the writer?  

 

I don't think there's an absolute answer.  I just find it fascinating.

 

Ah, thanks for clearing up my misconception, JMO.

 

Thing is, with CM a lot of things were simply implied in the past. We suspected that Hotch was abused, that Elle felt uncomfortable when she visited her family, that Emily had a tense relationship with her mother, etc. We believed that Emily died (at least those of us who didn't read spoilers beforehand did) and then it turned out to be not true. Does that count as a retcon? I don't know, maybe.

 

OTOH, the things we know are that Morgan was molested by Carl Buford, that Spencer was abandoned by the Sperm Donor, that Hotch's ex was killed by George Foyet, that Ross was with the Bureau before and then retired for a while to write his books, etc. If they change those things, doesn't that alter their basic selves? One of the things that makes this show such fertile ground for fanfic is because the characters tend to be lightly drawn, and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

 

However.

 

When Hotch and JJ had that long-ago talk about why she didn't take the classes and become a profiler, she said she enjoyed her place on the team and ffelt she had a vital job. And whatever I think of the character now, I thought she seemed sincere, particularly since when Hotch said, "But I thought everyone wanted to be a profiler" in a semi-joking way, she replied, "Sorry" then said she was considering where the team should go next. He says, "Wait....I thought we were the ones who decided that." and she answers, "Yeah, you keep telling yourself that" in a teasing way.

 

All of this is to say that I don't think it would have been terrible to not turn JJ into Super Woman. For all that in the past they talked about how valuable the media liaison was, Messer and the writers have made that null and void by replacing her with Action!Figure!JJ.

[secnarf]

 

Thing is, with CM a lot of things were simply implied in the past. We suspected that Hotch was abused, that Elle felt uncomfortable when she visited her family, that Emily had a tense relationship with her mother, etc. We believed that Emily died (at least those of us who didn't read spoilers beforehand did) and then it turned out to be not true. Does that count as a retcon? I don't know, maybe.

 

I don't think Emily not dying counts as a retcon - we found out that same episode that she was in Paris. And I think they showed pretty well that Emily had a tense relationship with her mother - if they were to come around and say that now everything is rainbows and unicorns, I'd definitely call that a retcon.

[SSAHotchner]

1- Don't confuse JJ, the character, with Cook, the actress. Quite a few fans here hate JJ, not Cook. I don't know her, so I don't hate her nor care about her. 

2- Quite a few fans here and there blame Messer and her creative decisions for the decline of the show, being one of them choosing JJ to be a prominent character, but also for her choices in the writing staff and her influence in dismissing all the canon the show had up to season six.

3- Writers: they haven't been there for 11 years. The writers staff for the first five years is not the bunch of people that write for CM nowadays (I don't think they deserve being called 'writers').

4- I don't know what you mean when you said the anger towards Morgan/Shemar doesn't match the hate for JJ/Cook. What do you mean with "who has been doing the same thing since day 1"? Doing what? kicking doors? being part of the main cast? he was hired to do that, so he hasn't changed. Maybe that's why he doesn't get as many complaints, to say the least.

5- "... Hotch/Thomas (who also directs the show on occasion)...". Are you saying we should hate this character because the actor that plays him directed a few episodes? Directing an episode does give you some creative decisions about how to film a story, not to write it, design the dialogues, and choose characters to tell the story. When you direct an episode, you can choose the guest cast, (up to certain extent), and choose how to film the scenes, and with the writer you will also edit the final product. And that's it. So, again, why, according to you, should be angry with the character/actor to the same extent than the one you imply for JJ?

6- Gubler never wrote anything for this show. He directed episodes, and he also holds a filming school degree. Again, writing is not the same as directing. 

7- "Prentiss used to bust down doors with Morgan"; True, but she did that since day one. She didn't turn into a ninja in half a year.

8- I think that currently the worst character is Garcia, and I totally blame the actress for the way she delivers her lines. 

Agree with you 100% MCatry.

[ForeverAlone]

Hotch and Rossi have the two most contradictory canon histories. Histories that CANNOT be squared, because there is no possible way to reconcile the histories of those characters. So really it comes down to what particular canon is most attractive to you (and the writer). I liked what was written for Rossi initially before (presumably) Joe had a hand in bending that to something that could not be reconcile with what we knew of Rossi. And I have no freaking idea where they were going with Hotch, since there is no possible way his history in the various episodes could all be right. The other characters at least don't contradict each other in such a blatant way. 

[smoker]

Hotch and Rossi have the two most contradictory canon histories. Histories that CANNOT be squared, because there is no possible way to reconcile the histories of those characters. So really it comes down to what particular canon is most attractive to you (and the writer). I liked what was written for Rossi initially before (presumably) Joe had a hand in bending that to something that could not be reconcile with what we knew of Rossi. And I have no freaking idea where they were going with Hotch, since there is no possible way his history in the various episodes could all be right. The other characters at least don't contradict each other in such a blatant way.

Absolutely agree about Rossi and about Hotch just in part, but there are more charactes with contradictory histories, I can't write them all right now, but Reid was a genius who never touched other people, do I need to be mean about his persona nowadays?

What I mean is mithology is sacred, things could be added to a character but not changing their core personality. People not always change, its their situation in life, their priorities which changes. I can buy JJ wanting back to BAU and taking advantage of the profiler opening, that feels organic, but I don't buy her becoming a ninja. the same can be said of any character. There are so many contradictions they aren't themselves anymore. Actually I have to agree with the comment about Derek being the less buchered

Edited December 14, 2015 by smoker

[RearcherInReal]

I don't know whether this is an unpopular opinion or not.

But it's not just JJ Super Mom who took over the show but also Morgan the dumb Super Hero.

And I do think all their centric shitty seasons do and stupid TPTB's promotions only for Shamer Moore do is hurt ratings, especially younger viewers' ratings.

And not just as a character, but Shemar Moore, as an actor, is the one who took most advantage of the show's popularity, not himself. Speaking of actors themselves, AJ Cook is rather "humble" than Shemar Moore, huge ego without any talent or real popularity but promoted everywhere.

So I don't know why people blame JJ more than Morgan the only hero shit and Shamer Moore.

Both characters should stay in background, and seriously almost no key viewer, meaning younger viewer, is interested in Shamer whatever just bald dumb idiot.

Edited December 14, 2015 by RearcherInReal

[MCatry]

I don't know whether this is an unpopular opinion or not.

But it's not just JJ Super Mom who took over the show but also Morgan the dumb Super Hero.

And I do think all their centric shitty seasons do and stupid TPTB's promotions only for Shamer Moore do is hurt ratings, especially younger viewers' ratings.

And not just as a character, but Shemar Moore, as an actor, is the one who took most advantage of the show's popularity, not himself. Speaking of actors themselves, AJ Cook is rather "humble" than Shemar Moore, huge ego without any talent or real popularity but promoted everywhere.

So I don't know why people blame JJ more than Morgan the only hero shit and Shamer Moore.

Both characters should stay in background, and seriously almost no key viewer, meaning younger viewer, is interested in Shamer whatever just bald dumb idiot.

 

I think the different reaction is based in the fact that Moore was hired to play a centric character, Derek Morgan, back in the old days, while JJ was a side character, with a different role.

Both characters have changed, and it is true that both now play a bigger part than before, but after hours of sitting in front of the screen counting seconds of screentime, the winner is still JJ, normally after the guest cast.

I see three basic problems here:

a) The guest cast consistently gets more screentime, attention and development than the cast (Hence, we are always angry because there is simply not enough time for the characters we like)

b) the focus of the show has switched towards action instead of psychology, brute force instead of intelligence and shooting/killing instead of reasoning. Hence, the most suitable characters to flesh that new approach are.... JJ and Morgan.

c) Once this cast was someone like a pyramid, with a peak for Gideon and Hotch, a second layer for three profilers, and then a base with a media liason and a technician. Now this pyramid is inverted. The ones once in the base received long archs, or season finales, or are in danger, .... whatever,... the profilers are disappearing in the middle of the episodes (if not one, the other, but someone is always missing the end), and there is basically no 'boss' nor 'voice of the experience'. Hierarchy is important, but right now, it is severely lost in this show.

 

I don't care what any actor/actress does outside the show. I don't follow them, nor I know much about their lives. Even if I would spend time following them, I would only know what the media want me to know. There is simply no way to theorize who is nicer, but at the same time, in the context of the show, that doesn't even matter.

I agree with you that there is a lot of promotion about Morgan, but its just because he has, after all, a rather large active fanbase in social media. It is, indeed a lot larger than the AJ Cook fanbase.

 

Regarding ratings, there are so many factors that may be contributing to the decline it is difficult to asses that one character should take the blame. Take, for instance, the latest trend: 

10.8;       9.08;           9.08;           8.47;        7.64             7.79

8.51 (JJ returns)

8.14              8.75            9.27     (Reid's absence for three episodes in a row)

With that data we could theorise that JJ's return attracted viewers, and that Reid's absence attracted viewers as well.

But we all know that is not as simple as that.

Other shows being broadcast simultaneously count too, as well as other events, and even other story lines. Not even quality counts when looking at the ratings. How many times a great episode had a low rating, and how many times we though a good quality episode pumped up the ratings of the next one? 

[amensisterfriend]

I recently rewatched some older episodes for the first time in ages, which of course yielded a few new UOs :) 

 

1) I've gained a renewed appreciation for the often overlooked Rossi, or at least S3-S5ish Rossi. He just adds a certain energy and wry humor that enlivens this often somber, flat team dynamic. Rossi just happens to interact with characters like Reid, Emily, etc. in ways that I love. He even brings out a likable and interesting side of Morgan more than pretty much any other character does for me, and I hold the UO of never (not even in earlier seasons) being a Morgan fan. (I just find Morgan condescending, tiresome, and played by a gorgeous but fairly poor actor!) And I found myself wishing we could have seen Rossi and Elle interact---I predict they would have clashed sometimes,  but it would have been entertaining and interesting to watch :)  

 

2) Not giving these characters clearly distinct skills, specialties and even slightly different  roles within the team---let alone well-defined personalities (that's just a pipe dream!)---was not only IMO the show's biggest misstep, but was IMUO an issue that started depressingly early on in the series rather than only a problem that marred later seasons. 

 

3) Not even attempting to plot actual mysteries and just throwing us an endless stream of 'look, this Unsub who we revealed .03 seconds into the episode is creeeepy! And creepy again! And creepy STILL!!'  is another major disappointment for me. I totally get that many watch purely for the characters, but for me the character definition and development was always fairly poor---even at its best ---so IMUO the cases do factor in heavily to my enjoyment of the show. (Which is not to say that only cases where we don't know the Unsub's identity until later on are 'good'---the I've-watched-it-far-too-many-times-to-count S4, for example, provides great examples of how we can sometimes know the Unsub's identity from the outset yet still get a genuinely suspenseful, psychologically rich episode!) 

 

4) I don't agree with the very popular opinion that Prentiss was out of character in S7...primarily because I don't think they ever established her firmly and consistently enough to be IN character :) Emily was always all over the place, a character who gave off a certain earnest intensity and passion that made many of us (including me!) love her thanks primarily to the actress, but who was written as everything from a socially awkward, somewhat sheltered dork to a super slick, 'cool' party girl to a dark former goth with a major past to just a bland, generic agent, so for me S7 was no different. Speaking of which, I still hold the UO of really liking S7. 

 

...5) And the even more UO of kind of shipping Emily and Rossi---or at least the version of Emily who I connect with best :) She makes him more sincere and emotional; he lightens up her intensity a bit; they're both quick witted, snarky, semi-broken by the past but half-hopeful anyway, passionate about the things and people they care about, into words/languages etc. Clearly I need help :) 

 

6) On that note, I would love to watch a show with a team consisting of just Reid, Elle, Rossi, My Version of Emily and Earlier Seasons Hotch. Even if I thought every team member had a unique personality and different area of expertise to contribute (which they don't...and the show stopped even pretending that was the case as early as S2!), there have just always been too many of them IMO, and it makes the team members feel so superfluous and dully interchangeable more often than not. And don't even get me started on those unintentionally hilarious, stilted profile deliveries, where each unnaturally belts out one line like a poorly written grade school play. 

 

7) Oh, and I've mentioned it before but it's amusingly unpopular enough to mention again...I actually love The Performer from S5, and episode which I know many name as one of the worst of those first five seasons :) 

Edited February 4, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Chaos Theory]

I am going to make a comment on MCCatry's point of JJ being a side character. She was less a side character and more a supporting one and that means little on a long running show especially procedurals. CSI and NCIS had a few supporting characters move up to leads over the years. Also if we count fan base we will get into a knockdiwn. JJ has been on the show since day two in one form

Or another...not counting when higher ups canned her for murky reasons.

[Droogie]

I recently rewatched some older episodes for the first time in ages, which of course yielded a few new UOs :) 

 

1) I've gained a renewed appreciation for the often overlooked Rossi, or at least S3-S5ish Rossi. He just adds a certain energy and wry humor that enlivens this often somber, flat team dynamic. Rossi just happens to interact with characters like Reid, Emily, etc. in ways that I love. He even brings out a likable and interesting side of Morgan more than pretty much any other character does for me, and I hold the UO of never (not even in earlier seasons) being a Morgan fan. (I just find Morgan condescending, tiresome, and played by a gorgeous but fairly poor actor!) And I found myself wishing we could have seen Rossi and Elle interact---I predict they would have clashed sometimes,  but it would have been entertaining and interesting to watch :)  

 

2) Not giving these characters clearly distinct skills, specialties and even slightly different  roles within the team---let alone well-defined personalities (that's just a pipe dream!)---was not only IMO the show's biggest misstep, but was IMUO an issue that started depressingly early on in the series rather than only a problem that marred later seasons. 

 

3) Not even attempting to plot actual mysteries and just throwing us an endless stream of 'look, this Unsub who we revealed .03 seconds into the episode is creeeepy! And creepy again! And creepy STILL!!'  is another major disappointment for me. I totally get that many watch purely for the characters, but for me the character definition and development was always fairly poor---even at its best ---so IMUO the cases do factor in heavily to my enjoyment of the show. (Which is not to say that only cases where we don't know the Unsub's identity until later on are 'good'---the I've-watched-it-far-too-many-times-to-count S4, for example, provides great examples of how we can sometimes know the Unsub's identity from the outset yet still get a genuinely suspenseful, psychologically rich episode!) 

 

4) I don't agree with the very popular opinion that Prentiss was out of character in S7...primarily because I don't think they ever established her firmly and consistently enough to be IN character :) Emily was always all over the place, a character who gave off a certain earnest intensity and passion that made many of us (including me!) love her thanks primarily to the actress, but who was written as everything from a socially awkward, somewhat sheltered dork to a super slick, 'cool' party girl to a dark former goth with a major past to just a bland, generic agent, so for me S7 was no different. Speaking of which, I still hold the UO of really liking S7. 

 

...5) And the even more UO of kind of shipping Emily and Rossi---or at least the version of Emily who I connect with best :) She makes him more sincere and emotional; he lightens up her intensity a bit; they're both quick witted, snarky, semi-broken by the past but half-hopeful anyway, passionate about the things and people they care about, into words/languages etc. Clearly I need help :) 

 

6) On that note, I would love to watch a show with a team consisting of just Reid, Elle, Rossi, My Version of Emily and Earlier Seasons Hotch. Even if I thought every team member had a unique personality and different area of expertise to contribute (which they don't...and the show stopped even pretending that was the case as early as S2!), there have just always been too many of them IMO, and it makes the team members feel so superfluous and dully interchangeable more often than not. And don't even get me started on those unintentionally hilarious, stilted profile deliveries, where each unnaturally belts out one line like a poorly written grade school play. 

 

7) Oh, and I've mentioned it before but it's amusingly unpopular enough to mention again...I actually love The Performer from S5, and episode which I know many name as one of the worst of those first five seasons :)

ASF, I agree with so much of what you've said here. I love, love, love early Rossi as so delightfully snarky. It bothers me that he has been relegated to proverb-spouting grandpa.

And the line-by-line profile delivery has always made me cringe. If I were the actors I'd never be able to keep a straight face.

Lastly, I would watch the heck out of a show with the characters you list in #6.

[amensisterfriend]

I've always considered S1-S4 the undisputed 'golden age' of CM, but I've grown to love S5 and have always really liked S7. I even like parts of S6, including Reid's hair during that season. Stop judging me! ;) 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I even like parts of S6, including Reid's hair during that season. Stop judging me! ;) 

 

I'll go you one better than that. I like all the iterations of Reid's hair. Short, long, messy, neat, even the boy's regular Elle from the beginning of the second season. Yes, even when it looks like he combed it with a garden rake. :-P

[BellaLugosi]

I hate Garcia. 

 

[SSAHotchner]

I hate Garcia. 

 

Bella, that's not such an unpopular opinion anymore. Love the clip. Madeline Kahn is one of my all time favorites. And I really thought the Clue movie was pretty good. My husband fell asleep during it, but I thought they did a good job with the characters, the humor, and the look of the house, rooms, etc. was pretty good for how I imagined it while playing the game as a kid. 

[Reghan]

I hate Garcia. 

 

I LOVE Garcia <3 XD

[Snow Apple]

I like Garcia too. When I first started watching, she reminded me of Abby from NCIS who I can't stand. Can. Not. Stand. The more I watched, I found myself not minding Garcia. Maybe the actress pulls off "quirkiness" better than the actress who plays Abby who seems so fake to me.

[Bookish Jen]

I really liked Garcia in her earlier incarnations. I thought it was so cool a dame was handling the high tech aspects of the BAU. Plus, I like how she eschewed the neutral pantsuits that most of the women at FBI headquarters would usually support. But then she got more ridiculous as time went on. She became a genius to out-genious Spencer, her mad tech skills could solve any case and her dress sense went from quirky to clown college reject. Kitty ears at work? Seriously!

Edited March 10, 2016 by Bookish Jen

[ForeverAlone]

For me, I liked both the original incarnations of Abby and Penelope, because while they were quirky, it wasn't overwhelming or unprofessional. As both series progressed, both characters regressed into child like, unprofessional, over the top behavior who dressed like nightmares. It's like as the characters got older, the writers de-aged them in terms of dress and behavior. More recently, NCIS seems to have righted the ship a bit when it comes to Abbey, and a few recent episodes have shown Penelope more professional, but until there is a steady stream of it, I won't assume this is permanent. 

[Droogie]

The kitten ears make me want to punch a wall. Seriously.

Initially I loved Garcia. I even loved, and still do to an extent, her banter with Morgan. But, like Bookie said, when her supposed genius began to out-genius my genius, I started to get pissed. There is one genius on Criminal Minds. One. One.

Knowing that KV now has a lot of input into the character is telling. Kitten ears and cleavage for days. Very distracting. I know we have to suspend a lot of disbelief with these folks but come on. But I really didn't mind her turn in "Derek," both as part of a hallucination and in the actual story. As I've said a million times, please, oh please, spare me from any Garcia grief at a death of the character of Morgan. But her behavior thus far has been palatable.

[ReidFan]

The kitten ears make me want to punch a wall. Seriously.

Initially I loved Garcia. I even loved, and still do to an extent, her banter with Morgan. But, like Bookie said, when her supposed genius began to out-genius my genius, I started to get pissed. There is one genius on Criminal Minds. One. One.

*T*H*I*S* !!!!!!!

[amensisterfriend]

I just can't bring myself to like Morgan. To make this even more unpopular, I never really liked Morgan, not even earlier on in the series. I don't hate him and can easily see why many adore him, but something about the combination of the acting and writing just doesn't work for me.

My UO within this UO is that while I love the IDEA of a 'big brother/little brother' dynamic between Morgan and Reid, I actually don't like their interactions much. Morgan just comes off as condescending, patronizing and arrogant when interacting with Reid more often than not....IMUO, obviously :)  And while in theory I love the idea of the Morgan/Garcia banter to lighten up a generally dark show, everything about their dynamic always felt so forced and unnatural to me. And I swear that I wanted to love them! 

 

In my weird little head, Emily is still the more fabulously dorky, undiplomatic (very unlike her diplomat mom!), brilliant and endearingly eager version of the character we met in S2 rather than the more conventionally tough, edgy 'badass' they seemed to try to make her later on. Sticking stubbornly to one's preferred fanwank of various characters and relationships is kind of a prerequisite to loving this show :) 

 

I'll never quite get over that we never got to see Elle interact with Emily, Rossi and even Alex. I just feel like I would have---or at least COULD have---loved their dynamics. 

 

I get Strauss's function, but I never enjoyed her scenes. 

 

I LOVE intense introverts like Hotch, and he was right up there with Reid, Elle and Early Rossi and Prentiss on my list of favorites for much of the series, but he's crossed that line from 'seemingly stoic man of intriguingly hidden emotional and psychological depth' to 'dull, depressing and vaguely zombie like' too often for me over the past several seasons.  

 

Also, this show would be a zillion times better if the agents had more distinct roles within the team, areas of expertise, special skills and even more differentiated personalities. As it is, they all come off as just generically amazing in every way with everyone equally perfect at everything, and it makes for a flat, dull, why-are-they-all-even-here dynamic when the team could be so potentially fascinating if their personal and professional strengths and weaknesses were even a little more clearly defined.

 

A major allure of this show for me is that I would have loved to be part of the BAU and wish I could become a profiler. I'm weird enough to view what they do as my dream job :)  

Edited March 14, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[amensisterfriend]

ETA: I think S2 is amazing and sadly underrated...underrated by me as well, by the way, because somehow I'm always surprised all over again by how much I love it :) 

[Bookish Jen]

If loving CM season 2 is wrong, I don't want to be right. I even like Elle's shorter 'do with the bangs. Maybe because my hair is cut in a similar fashion only longer and I'm a redhead.

[Old Dog]

I never knew Season 2 was underrated? I've always loved it and feel the first 4 seasons are all pretty great - the Golden Years! Some of my absolute favourite episodes are from Season 2 - The Big Game/Revelations, Lessons Learned, The Last Word.

[autumnmountains]

I never knew Season 2 was underrated? I've always loved it and feel the first 4 seasons are all pretty great - the Golden Years! Some of my absolute favourite episodes are from Season 2 - The Big Game/Revelations, Lessons Learned, The Last Word.

Same here. The only things I would have shown differently was for Gideon to have already left and Rossi be there, and more realistically of a recovery for Reid. I say the same about another favorite, Amplification

[amensisterfriend]

The only things I would have shown differently was for Gideon to have already left and Rossi be there, and more realistically of a recovery for Reid.

 

In my head canon, S2 Reid suffered from PTSD, and I conveniently allow myself to forget about the show giving him a drug addiction for a variety of weird reasons that I won't bore you guys with :)

 

Honestly, I have fanwanks---aka things I've pretty much made up that we were never told and/or things I blocked out that we WERE told---about most of these characters. Denial is NOT just a river in Egypt, guys ;) Seriously, one awesomely fun thing about crime dramas is that because they don't focus as directly and heavily on characters' personal lives, traits, families, backgrounds, etc., we can use our imaginations to fill in the blanks and even bend canon a bit as we see fit. 

 

When I mentioned that S2 was kind of underrated, I just meant that I usually see S2 as ranked last of those first four seasons (aka The Golden Age!), but I actually prefer it to S3. And, depending on my mood, maybe even S1! I'm currently kind of stuck on seeing S4 as the show's most sublime, endlessly rewatchable season, in case you couldn't tell :)

 

 

 

I even like Elle's shorter 'do with the bangs

 

Heh---it's weird, because objectively I don't love the hair itself, but I've come to appreciate it as somehow fitting S2 Elle, you know?! Similarly, while objectively I prefer JJ's hair long, I really appreciate the shorter hair in S4. It somehow works for a woman trying to balance work with impending/new motherhood and gives her a more relatable, efficient, no nonsense air that works for me. Or maybe I'm partial to her s4 hair because I also happen to think JJ is at her most likable that season...perhaps because she's gone for part of it :)

 

And I think her getting unexpectedly pregnant by a guy she wasn't sure she wanted to commit to long term brought up some really interesting potential character issues (which the show glossed over and left unexplored, of course!) regarding JJ's cool detachment and reluctance to get too close in general despite always knowing the right thing to say to families and the public at large, whether having a baby out of wedlock would be viewed by her family, non-BAU friends etc. as surprising for the nearly perfect JJ who seemed to always do everything so carefully and in ways that conform to expectations, how she herself really felt about this unexpected life-altering change in plans as she seems the type who likes things to stay contained and nicely in control...etc.

 

So I guess maybe my UO here is that I still think I COULD have liked JJ and found her really interesting as the 'seemingly perfect, pretty, athletic, slightly snotty popular girl who deals smoothly with the masses but holds herself back from getting too close to the people in her life.' The actual writing and acting for the character let me down, but...see above re. me merrily fanwanking in order to keep loving the show ;) 

 

On a wholly unrelated note: Revelations and 100 are awesome episodes by most measures and arguably among the show's 3-4 very, very best...but they're too painful and grim for me to ever actually enjoy rewatching! 

Edited March 15, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Snow Apple]

My UO is i'm not a fan of Emily Prentiss. There. I said it. 

[amensisterfriend]

Hee---Snow Apple, no judgment here, but I would love to know why! Someone else here recently said they weren't a fan either, so you're not alone. And even I can admit that she was kind of all over the place and underwritten :) 

[Snow Apple]

I don't know. Just not my type of personality I guess. Even when she's trying to joke around or be sympathetic, I just get a sense coldness and superiority underneath. 

[amensisterfriend]

It's so funny, because for me it's the opposite---I feel like she's always a little insecure, the type who tries a bit too hard, is too eager to overcompensate and is never QUITE sure who she is, like part of her is still trying on various personas/identities like she did back in high school :) JJ is actually the character I get cold superiority from even when we're probably not supposed to. But, let's face it, most of these characters are really underwritten, so nearly every perception of them feels valid!  

[Bookish Jen]

It's so funny, because for me it's the opposite---I feel like she's always a little insecure, the type who tries a bit too hard, is too eager to overcompensate and is never QUITE sure who she is, like part of her is still trying on various personas/identities like she did back in high school :) JJ is actually the character I get cold superiority from even when we're probably not supposed to. But, let's face it, most of these characters are really underwritten, so nearly every perception of them feels valid!  

I totally agree with this. Emily, at least in her earlier incarnations, did have an air of insecurity about her and was very eager to please everyone on the BAU. I think she may have felt a bit out of sorts in her mother's very accomplished shadow. And trying on various personae is something insecure people do until they feel comfortable with their true selves (I could write a thesis about this).

 

I never hated JJ. And l had mad respect for ability to handle the media onslaught as media liaison as well as her ability to choose the most important cases for the BAU to work on. This was where her cooler personality came into play, and she did both roles very well. But this "empathetic mom" who is the most giving, compassionate person ever just rubs me the wrong way because it just rings false.

 

Perhaps the portrayal of Emily and JJ have to do with both Paget and AJ as actors, but  I think most of it is due to the writers. Which begs the question (sung a la Henry Higgins in "My Fair Lady,") "Why can't the writers of CM write?"

[ForeverAlone]

I give Paget tremendous credit for me liking Emily. I do agree that Emily was written very inconsistently, but I think Paget's performance elevated the material and made Emily a lot more likeable than she could have been. It could have been easy to be a standard procedural character cipher, but I really liked Emily (I just ignore the super spy arc). 

[SSAHotchner]

It's so funny, because for me it's the opposite---I feel like she's always a little insecure, the type who tries a bit too hard, is too eager to overcompensate and is never QUITE sure who she is, like part of her is still trying on various personas/identities like she did back in high school :) JJ is actually the character I get cold superiority from even when we're probably not supposed to. But, let's face it, most of these characters are really underwritten, so nearly every perception of them feels valid!  

I'm with you, Amen. It makes me think of the episode where her friend dies and they discover he's been through an exorcism. It's one of my least favorite episodes, but there was the story in there about Emily getting pregnant as a teen and having an abortion. She tells Rossi, "when you're 15 and you've moved around a lot, you'll do anything to be liked." I think that even though she matured and experienced a lot having lived in many countries and learned languages and customs, she still was insecure deep down and not really sure that she fit in anywhere, no matter how accomplished she was. 

 

I liked JJ prior to her first leaving, and even through most of season 7. It's after that that she became colder, more robotic for me. 

[zannej]

Is liking Tara an unpopular opinion? While I do think she has been overused in a few episodes (at the expense of other characters), I like Aisha. She has good chemistry with the rest of the cast and I find her emoting to be believable. Her line delivery seems natural to me and I'm glad they improved her wig.

[normasm]

Zannej, I do like the way she deferred to Dr. Reid (twice, i think), and yeah, as long as they don't go overboard on her use again, once Morgan is gone. Her hitting the ground running circles around all the veterans earlier this year was a bit ridiculous. Her line delivery is fairly natural and not overly "actressy."

[MMC]

Sadly I am looking less and less forward to the return of Emily Prentiss.Don't get me wrong I love the character and I do miss her. But that doesn't mean it'd be perfectly okay with me if she pretty much takes over this episode at the expense of some of the other characters,but this is what it appears to look like. I also get the feeling we will be getting some more of this so called girl power crap shoved down our throats.

 

Further more what pisses me off even more is it appears we are going to be introduce to some mystery guy who is supposedly the love interest of Emily Prentiss.Meanwhile Reid has his fish to go home to.But than again I don't really expect to see a lot of Reid,because MGG was probably putting the final touches on the episode he had directed while this episode was being filmed.

 

ETA: Now what on earth could have happened to my post. I know for a fact that I did not mistakenly type the same thing more than once. I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that the first time I tried posting it I was unsuccessful.So I went back and tried posting it again and this time I was successful.

Edited March 30, 2016 by MMC

[Old Dog]

I'm with you MMC! I loved Prentiss - she was my favourite female team member, although in her last season on the show you could tell she was just going through the motions. But I don't want to see this episode all about Prentiss - I want to see how the team reacts to Morgan's departure so I hope they use Prentiss to show that.

I must confess I am already sick of the posts about why does she have a boyfriend that isn't Hotch! I thought we had left that well behind. I just hope that Erica Messer isn't pandering to the squeeing and vocal idiots on Facebook and I hope we get a better episode with Prentiss than the last train wreck she popped up in!

[MMC]

I

 

I'm with you MMC! I loved Prentiss - she was my favourite female team member, although in her last season on the show you could tell she was just going through the motions. But I don't want to see this episode all about Prentiss - I want to see how the team reacts to Morgan's departure so I hope they use Prentiss to show that.

I must confess I am already sick of the posts about why does she have a boyfriend that isn't Hotch! I thought we had left that well behind. I just hope that Erica Messer isn't pandering to the squeeing and vocal idiots on Facebook and I hope we get a better episode with Prentiss than the last train wreck she popped up in!

I hear you Old Dog. Maybe they thought giving Prentiss a love interest would quiet the Hotch/Prentiss shippers down.Because they'd come to realize there isn't ever going to be anything between the 2 of them. Although why they thought that is beyond me since it didn't seem to do the trick when they gave Beth to Hotch as a love interest.

Edited March 30, 2016 by MMC

[SSAHotchner]

I was prepared to give Tara the benefit of the doubt, as I did the other Emily replacements, but I didn't care for some of the stuff they did with her early on and I hated the wig. She did look much nicer in the last episode. I don't want to see any of the agents be super heroes. Just do their job and use whatever special skills they have. Now that Morgan is gone, I'm waiting to see how they'll use Tara. I don't hate her. Don't love her, either. Wouldn't miss her if she were gone. I'm just waiting to see how the writers will handle the character now. If they try to overuse her, I won't be happy. 

[Mysteyman]

Well , I liked Tara in Mirror Image.

[callie lee 29]

Of all the agents they've had the only one's I've really disliked are Gideon, Elle, and new-JJ (no earthly idea what her name is).  I also get a little tired of Reid and Garcia has needed to calm the fuck down since the first few seasons. 

[TaurusRose]

I needed something new to watch so I caught up with CM on Netflix.  I've read through the thread and learned a lot of BTS stuff that I was blissfully ignorant of (firings, contract negotiations, showrunner agendas, etc.), so I think my take on the characters is a little different. That said here are my UOs...

I never liked Elle or Prentiss (ditto for the actresses).  Both characters came across as haughty and tried too hard to be mysterious special snowflakes, especially in the case of Emily.  It didn't bother me when either one left, my only regret is that Emily keeps coming back. Shemar Moore is a good looking man and I like his swagger, but I didn't necessarily always like how Morgan was used or portrayed.  It bothered me that he was always the one kicking in doors and tackling people to the ground.  That said, I always liked the way he was able to relate to kids.  I didn't mind the Morgan/Garcia banter too much.  It was their thing, and it didn't make or break how cases were handled.  I can roll with Penelope.  Yes, her fashion sense is out there and she has a HUGE personality, but she doesn't annoy the fuck out of me like Elle or Prentiss did.  I give her a pass for spending most of her time locked in a room without windows, staring at a bunch of computer screens and pounding on keyboards.  Nope.  I do not hate Garcia.  Which brings me to JJ.

In appearance she's the typical American girl fantasy for people who are not me: generically pretty, blonde, young. Every show needs one.  But I liked her in the role of media liaison.  I loved her ability to handle the media and I admired her interactions with the families.  JJ had a very nice way about her when dealing with distraught survivors and families.  I was surprised when she left because I thought she filled an important role,  and I didn't really read too much into her return as a profiler, except it seemed like an odd choice to make after having a baby, but whatever.  JJ's expanded role as seasons went on did not go unnoticed, but it didn't really change my opinion of the character either.  On to...Spencer.  You know, I never realized how attractive MGG is until I got to this thread.  He's indeed a "pretty boy," but not my cup of tea, as in I am not attracted to him.  But I like Spencer very much.  I like his intelligence, his quirkiness and his dislike of change.  I appreciated the evolution of his relationship with Morgan; adored his shared fandom geekiness with Garcia, and really liked his chemistry with that Lila (?) chick back in S1.  Also, the way he wears his side arm just cracks me up. One last thing, I'm glad Spencer is straight.  Read into that what you will.

Never expected to lose Gideon or Hotch.  I thought MP's reason for leaving was rather sketchy especially since he went from CM to Homeland.  WTF? But his tenure with CM set the tone for S1 and S2.  No matter what you feel about the actor, he brings a certain gravitas to any role he takes.  As for Thomas Gibson, it's unfortunate that real life circumstances got in the way.  I've always liked Joe Mantegna, and Rossi is like that expensive yet comforting vintage item that goes with everything.  I have never liked Jean Tripplehorn, so her presence and her character annoyed me mightily.  I thought it ironic that JLH and Aisha Tyler passed each other like ships in the night since they did Ghost Whisperer together.  I don't mind either actress, but as for their CM characters--meh.  

I really don't get the dislike of Will.  I like the guy.  I like that he's perfectly okay with JJ profiling all over the country while he's providing stability and comfort on the homefront, and unwavering love and support when she returns.  He is the exact opposite of Hayley (who, IMO, was annoying as all get out).  I don't really get the desire to ship any of the team members and I'm extremely thankful that in 11 Netflix seasons they didn't go there with any of them.  Lastly, losing Hotch and Morgan at almost the same time definitely changes the landscape. The new guy hasn't grabbed me, I simply cannot do Emily Prentiss again, and I'm not invested enough in any of the remaining team members or engaged in any of the cases enough to continue watching real time.  

ETA:  I cannot believe I forgot to mention Kevin!  Imagine my surprise when Nicholas Brendon showed up here.  I despised Xander with every ounce of my being (a distinction shared by only one other Buffyverse character, Spike).  But oddly enough, I didn't mind Kevin at all and I even liked his 10-minute relationship with Garcia.  I chalk it up to his status never going beyond that of guest star, so I only had to deal with him in limited doses.    

Edited January 18, 2017 by taurusrose
Xander/Kevin comment

[Gbb]

On 1/18/2017 at 2:37 PM, taurusrose said:

ETA:  I cannot believe I forgot to mention Kevin!  Imagine my surprise when Nicholas Brendon showed up here.  I despised Xander with every ounce of my being (a distinction shared by only one other Buffyverse character, Spike).  But oddly enough, I didn't mind Kevin at all and I even liked his 10-minute relationship with Garcia.  I chalk it up to his status never going beyond that of guest star, so I only had to deal with him in limited doses.    

This is said with no malice at all, just sharing because I found it funny. About 2/3 of the way through your post I had already scrolled down a bit to click "like" because I agreed with everything you were saying. Then you had to go and despise Spike, and it was impossible for me to leave the little heart clicked ;)