Heather Thomson: Inventor of Yummie Tummie

[slitz]

IIRC, it was something that happened when Heather and Kristin were training for the mud run, I don't remember what happened but I remember that there was an issue that upset some people. Hopefully someone can provide info.

 

I hope someone can find it because I've looked high and low (so much for eating my lunch!) and haven't been able to find anything.

[breezy424]

This same thing (Heather and Kris training for the mud run) was brought up here at the end of last season.  And to my knowledge no one was able to find it either.

 

If this is true, and no one seems to be able to verify it, then we're talking about one comment.  I don't this that constitutes claiming that the other women mocked Aviva's disability as in this was a pattern.  Heck, didn't Aviva mock her disability in her tag line?  And the leg throwing?   

Edited June 18, 2015 by breezy424

[Crikey]

This same thing (Heather and Kris training for the mud run) was brought up here at the end of last season.  And to my knowledge no one was able to find it either.

 

If this is true, and no one seems to be able to verify it, then we're talking about one comment.  I don't this that constitutes claiming that the other women mocked Aviva's disability as in this was a pattern.  Heck, didn't Aviva mock her disability in her tag line?  And the leg throwing?   

Well, I don't remember the mud run but I believe it has been established through various highly complicated mathematical equations that if two housewives are involved then that constitutes a line.  A line likely armed with matches to start Salem-like bonfires.  A line probably armed with billy clubs and night sticks.  All ready to take hits!  

I don't make this stuff up, it's in the HW manual, yanno!  ;)

[slitz]

I have looked through the episode threads on here and a couple other sites and have not found a single mention of Heather and Kristin mocking Aviva's handicap.  I would think that if they had there would have been a HUGE stink made about it.

[ryebread]

I hope someone can find it because I've looked high and low (so much for eating my lunch!) and haven't been able to find anything.

 

One was on the episode when they were training.  Season 6 Epi 3.  They made fun of how Aviva has to hop when she wasn't wearing her leg.  It was in the park while training for the mud run.

 

The next time the coven was in Carole's apartment.  I think they were unpacking a new shipment of books?  I don't remember exactly what was said and although Kristen laughed, IIRC she was the only one that had a look on her face like, "uh oh.  Not cool."  Kristen was sitting on the arm of a chair. LOL.  That's all folks.  I kind of tuned out of NY around that point, although I did come back for the leg toss.  Like BH, once they get too dark and nasty, I'm out.  I'm a delicate flower like that.

 

I can't get the episode anywhere.  If anyone finds it, I'd love to watch and discuss.  Good times, good times.

[breezy424]

I have looked through the episode threads on here and a couple other sites and have not found a single mention of Heather and Kristin mocking Aviva's handicap.  I would think that if they had there would have been a HUGE stink made about it.

This is where it came up here last season.  Towards the bottom of the page it was stated that Heather and Carole made fun of Aviva's disability.  And if you read the follow up postings, no one verified it -  unless I missed something.

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/11472-s06e20-the-last-leg/page-8

[ryebread]

This is where it came up here last season.  Towards the bottom of the page it was stated that Heather and Carole made fun of Aviva's disability.  And if you read the follow up postings, no one verified it -  unless I missed something.

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/11472-s06e20-the-last-leg/page-8

 

Damn, I'm a bleeding heart.

 

I'll try to find the example for you.  I think it's going to take little work since "Aviva" and "leg" is going to bring up everything from last episode.  

 

It may not stand out at you because the delivery was cutesy.  A pun.  But it was always something that made me think, gee, unnecessary.

 

That reminded me that one of the things Heather said was about Aviva not having a leg to stand on.  Har har har.  (That's sarcasm.) 

 

People who didn't even know Aviva were saying terrible things about her amputation on here, on message boards, on twitter, etc.  It's not a stretch, for me,  to think HCK, who actually knew and vehemently disliked the nutjob, made fun of her behind her back far more often than what I heard.

[slitz]

One was on the episode when they were training.  Season 6 Epi 3.  They made fun of how Aviva has to hop when she wasn't wearing her leg.  It was in the park while training for the mud run.

 

The next time the coven was in Carole's apartment.  I think they were unpacking a new shipment of books?  I don't remember exactly what was said and although Kristen laughed, IIRC she was the only one that had a look on her face like, "uh oh.  Not cool."  Kristen was sitting on the arm of a chair. LOL.  That's all folks.  I kind of tuned out of NY around that point, although I did come back for the leg toss.  Like BH, once they get too dark and nasty, I'm out.  I'm a delicate flower like that.

 

I can't get the episode anywhere.  If anyone finds it, I'd love to watch and discuss.  Good times, good times.

 

So I may have joined Hulu Plus so I could watch this.  I need to be stopped.  lol

 

The only thing that was said about Aviva was when Josh asked the trainer where he got his legs (very muscular calves...like WHOA) and Heather joked "We should get Aviva to get one with a big muscle on it."

 

Now YMMV but personally, I didn't see this as mocking her handicap or the accident.  This was prior to the big blow-up at Aviva's housewarming and all the subsequent fights so at this point, Heather really has no beef with Aviva.  I think she was just making a joke, but not one that was meant maliciously. 

 

Again, I'll state that this is just my opinion and others may see it differently.  But there was no joking about how Aviva has to hop.

 

Not sure about what other scene you're talking about though or when that took place.

 

Edited because the forums went crazy on me and put my post in here twice.

Edited June 18, 2015 by slitz

[WireWrap]

Damn, I'm a bleeding heart.

 

 

That reminded me that one of the things Heather said was about Aviva not having a leg to stand on.  Har har har.  (That's sarcasm.) 

 

People who didn't even know Aviva were saying terrible things about her amputation on here, on message boards, on twitter, etc.  It's not a stretch, for me,  to think HCK, who actually knew and vehemently disliked the nutjob, made fun of her behind her back far more often than what I heard.

I do think we viewers, myself included, can go a bit too far at times when we dislike a particular HW, it happens to all of us no matter which HW show we watch. Tamra is routinely demonized, as is Brandi, Nene, Kenya, all of the HWs have been picked apart at 1 time or another without exception. Maybe it is because of the anonymous nature of social media, we feel freer to say our opinions in a more blunt/less compassionate way than we would do so to someone's face, be they another poster or even the HW herself. JMO

[Rhetorica]

If I remember correctly, and that's a big if, Heather had some sort of lawsuit with Spanx, or someone last year. Is that correct? Could that have been during the filming for this year? And could it be why we've seen so little of her life without all the other women? Just wondering.

[slitz]

If I remember correctly, and that's a big if, Heather had some sort of lawsuit with Spanx, or someone last year. Is that correct? Could that have been during the filming for this year? And could it be why we've seen so little of her life without all the other women? Just wondering.

 

I think that happened during filming for last season.  IIRC, Heather came over to Carole's after a day at court for some tequila shots.

[Rhetorica]

I think that happened during filming for last season. IIRC, Heather came over to Carole's after a day at court for some tequila shots.

Well crsp, I've lost a whole year then...

[Mozelle]

I'm really trying to distract myself today, so I took on watching episode 6.3 as someone cited that episode. In one scene, Ramona has Heather over to talk about Ramona's trip to "Africa" (since it seems that she couldn't bother to pinpoint the actual country she was in). They start talking about the argument between Carole and Aviva at Aviva's place, which I had completely forgotten Ramona instigated. I call LuAnn a snake from time to time, but Ramona is slithery as well. Anyway, they're rehashing that night with Ramona being all surprised that an argument started.

 

Heather: I'm not ever gonna try to understand Aviva Drescher. I've tried to give her an opportunity, but her behavior the other night at her house I thought was despicable. 

Ramona: There has to be something in between.

Heather: Carole is a writer. That's what she's done since she was 20 years old. And for someone to slander that--try to sabotage it it--is, um, unspeakable. [There's a cut here given the pronoun shift, which could have you thinking the topic was still Carole since that's what Heather started with, but she's talking about Aviva next.] I don't trust her as far as I can throw her. And, uh, you know, for me, no pun intended, but she doesn't have a leg to stand on. 

 

I haven't finished the episode, but I wanted to note that first.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Mozelle

[slitz]

I'm really trying to distract myself today, so I took on watching episode 6.3 as someone cited that episode. In one scene, Ramona has Heather over to talk about Ramona's trip to "Africa" (since it seems that she couldn't bother to pinpoint the actual country she was in). They start talking about the argument between Carole and Aviva at Aviva's place, which I had completely forgotten Ramona instigated. I call LuAnn a snake from time to time, but Ramona is slithery as well. Anyway, they're rehashing that night with Ramona being all surprised that an argument started.

 

Heather: I'm not ever gonna try to understand Aviva Drescher. I've tried to give her an opportunity, but her behavior the other night at her house I thought was despicable. 

Ramona: There has to be something in between.

Heather: Carole is a writer. That's what she's done since she was 20 years old. And for someone to slander that--try to sabotage it it--is, um, unspeakable. [There's a cut here given the pronoun shift, which could have you thinking the topic was still Carole since that's what Heather started with, but she's talking about Aviva next.] I don't trust her as far as I can throw her. And, uh, you know, for me, no pun intended, but she doesn't have a leg to stand on. 

 

I haven't finished the episode, but I wanted to note that first.

 

You have more patience than I.  I skipped straight to the Spartan run training scene at the park.  I didn't realize that the party at Aviva's had happened by that point.  I thought it was after the run, at the end of the episode.

[WireWrap]

I'm really trying to distract myself today, so I took on watching episode 6.3 as someone cited that episode. In one scene, Ramona has Heather over to talk about Ramona's trip to "Africa" (since it seems that she couldn't bother to pinpoint the actual country she was in). They start talking about the argument between Carole and Aviva at Aviva's place, which I had completely forgotten Ramona instigated. I call LuAnn a snake from time to time, but Ramona is slithery as well. Anyway, they're rehashing that night with Ramona being all surprised that an argument started.

 

Heather: I'm not ever gonna try to understand Aviva Drescher. I've tried to give her an opportunity, but her behavior the other night at her house I thought was despicable. 

Ramona: There has to be something in between.

Heather: Carole is a writer. That's what she's done since she was 20 years old. And for someone to slander that--try to sabotage it it--is, um, unspeakable. [There's a cut here given the pronoun shift, which could have you thinking the topic was still Carole since that's what Heather started with, but she's talking about Aviva next.] I don't trust her as far as I can throw her. And, uh, you know, for me, no pun intended, but she doesn't have a leg to stand on. 

 

I haven't finished the episode, but I wanted to note that first.

I don't think she was making fun of Aviva, she even said "No pun intended", but was using a very old saying "she doesn't have a leg to stand on", that is used by many, many people all the time.  JMO

[lunastartron]

I'll also add that Heather made the necessity of a wheelchair for Aviva at the airport in Montana a point of derision and ridicule. Why, oh, why might a woman with only one leg want the convenience or option of assistance after traveling for an extended period of time? She brought it up to Kristen and LuAnn who both snickered about it themselves . . . In Billings (or Big Sky or wherever) as well as afterward, Carole, Kristen, and Heather all escalated to conjecturing that Aviva had legitimate psychiatric problems and then chortling about their armchair expertise. This was more than a bit rich considering Heather's constant pronouncements about there being "lines you just don't cross" (she spontaneously decided Aviva's "alcoholic" jab at Sonja was a problem more than a year after the fact; she gasped about Sonja using the phrase "when you lie down with pigs" in reference to Heather's "good friend" LuAnn).

[motorcitymom65]

I'll also add that Heather made the necessity of a wheelchair for Aviva at the airport in Montana a point of derision and ridicule. Why, oh, why might a woman with only one leg want the convenience or option of assistance after traveling for an extended period of time? She brought it up to Kristen and LuAnn who both snickered about it themselves . . . In Billings (or Big Sky or wherever) as well as afterward, Carole, Kristen, and Heather all escalated to conjecturing that Aviva had legitimate psychiatric problems and then chortling about their armchair expertise. This was more than a bit rich considering Heather's constant pronouncements about there being "lines you just don't cross" (she spontaneously decided Aviva's "alcoholic" jab at Sonja was a problem more than a year after the fact; she gasped about Sonja using the phrase "when you lie down with pigs" in reference to Heather's "good friend" LuAnn).

Thank goodness Aviva is gone so we don't have to worry over her anymore.

 

Honestly, we talked her to death last season and we can do it some more (I am sure Avivia loves it) but to keep it about Heather and the others, the bottom line is that we all saw how everyone behaved and reacted to her back then. Most people were not offended by the way that the other girls treated her because she was horrible. We knew she was horrible, and they knew she was horrible. They didn't like her. Yes, they talked about her when she wasn't around because they didn't like her. When women get together in real life, and they have a person they all passionately dislike, they are going to talk about her. They are going to say things that might be mean. In real life you might question their marriage, you might talk about some gossip. It might be ugly, but that is the way the world works and these girls were hardly unique.

 

The wheelchair deal was discussed last year. Several of them who had traveled with her to do press in the past mentioned that they had never one time seen her use a wheelchair. Not ever in any airport. Not walking down the street shooting scenes. She didn't like to do that. So yes, maybe it was mean, but I think that any group of people - good people or bad people - who believed that someone was faking an illness to avoid a trip, and saw a wheelchair waiting would give it the side-eye. I don't think this gives any great insight into any type of evil personality. They were all well aware that her husband had been trying to negotiate her coming on the trip only if she was guaranteed a slot in the next season. She was a snake. She was a bitch. They didn't like her and they talked about her like people talk about people they don't like. I've never understood what the great tragedy here was. Were they pretending to love her and then talking about her behind her back I could agree. This is not the case here. 

Edited June 18, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[Mozelle]

I remember that wheelchair discussion. I thnk a lot of people (myself included) were perplexed because from allllllll that we'd seen of Aviva during her time on the show (and I know from looking at pictures on social media as well) there had never been a point where Aviva used a wheelchair to get around. Not ever. If there were some truth to that need, a picture certainly would have surfaced. I know there were theories that production had a hand in flashing to that shot of a wheelchair at the airport gate. 

 

It seemed absurd (and it still does to me) that Aviva--who we'd seen be as able-bodied as folks walking around without an amputated leg, who we know lives in one of the most walkingest cities in the country--would need a wheelchair to get to or from the airport gate. 

 

In any case, I'm going to pivot to Heather since this is her thread, and just big up with motorcitymom posted above me.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Mozelle

[breezy424]

The infamous wheel chair scene:

 

http://stoopidhousewives.com/2014/06/11/rhony-preview-moronic-housewives-in-montana/

 

BTW, Ro's comments to the driver (at least to me it sounded like Ro) were pretty offensive.

[WireWrap]

The infamous wheel chair scene:

 

http://stoopidhousewives.com/2014/06/11/rhony-preview-moronic-housewives-in-montana/

 

BTW, Ro's comments to the driver (at least to me it sounded like Ro) were pretty offensive.

I think I remember Ramona making several rude comments to the resort staff as well.

 

That was Sonja and Ramona making the snide comments about the wheelchair when they got off the plane. Heather only said that Aviva was still making herself know/felt even though she was not on the trip by ordering the wheelchair. IMO, Heather and the other HWs though Aviva arranged it because of her "asthma", not because of her leg and to keep herself front and center even though she refused to go. Aviva of course, denied ordering it in her blog that week but it could have been her or production, I just don't see any other HW doing that. JMO

[lunastartron]

Numbering post again in order to separate discrete points (no "enter" returns on handheld). 1) The premise that Heather and co. had open season on Aviva because they disliked her yet it was beyond the pale for Aviva to "demean who Carole *is*" when she had a direct objection to Carole's behavior is contradictory. Either, as Heather contends, there are "some lines you just don't cross" or there are not. Evidently Aviva cannot call someone with a demonstrated propensity to overimbibe an "alcholic" according to Heather but Heather and her cohort can talk about Aviva's "Munchausen," refer to her injury in a variety of capacities, scream and curse at her while chasing her over someone else's house, etc. Heather demonstrably has no "lines" for herself. 2) I don't think that Heather ever pretended to like Aviva while talking behind her back but there was all sorts of contradictory and circular logic that recalled the groupthink and middle-school dynamics that I previously mentioned. "Why is Aviva even coming to Montana?" H and C wondered before she officially bailed. Then her non-participation was suddenly a problem. Likewise, the shock and horror at Aviva's evidentiary X-rays all came after the triumvirate could not stop talking about how she was making everything up, etc, etc. 3) I also remember that Heather and her number one and two yukked it up on the reunion at Sonja attributing her forgiveness of Aviva to her faith. So spiritual legitimacy is another thing that *Heather* and her coterie can obviously question but I'm sure she'd have a big problem is anyone snickered when they invoked their respective religions on any discussion.

[motorcitymom65]

Numbering post again in order to separate discrete points (no "enter" returns on handheld). 1) The premise that Heather and co. had open season on Aviva because they disliked her yet it was beyond the pale for Aviva to "demean who Carole *is*" when she had a direct objection to Carole's behavior is contradictory. Either, as Heather contends, there are "some lines you just don't cross" or there are not. Evidently Aviva cannot call someone with a demonstrated propensity to overimbibe an "alcholic" according to Heather but Heather and her cohort can talk about Aviva's "Munchausen," refer to her injury in a variety of capacities, scream and curse at her while chasing her over someone else's house, etc. Heather demonstrably has no "lines" for herself. 2) I don't think that Heather ever pretended to like Aviva while talking behind her back but there was all sorts of contradictory and circular logic that recalled the groupthink and middle-school dynamics that I previously mentioned. "Why is Aviva even coming to Montana?" H and C wondered before she officially bailed. Then her non-participation was suddenly a problem. Likewise, the shock and horror at Aviva's evidentiary X-rays all came after the triumvirate could not stop talking about how she was making everything up, etc, etc. 3) I also remember that Heather and her number one and two yukked it up on the reunion at Sonja attributing her forgiveness of Aviva to her faith. So spiritual legitimacy is another thing that *Heather* and her coterie can obviously question but I'm sure she'd have a big problem is anyone snickered when they invoked their respective religions on any discussion.

I guess I don't understand why all of this is coming at Heather? I hopped over to the Sonja and Ramona threads and not a peep about how they treated Aviva. IMO the way they acted when she arrived in St. Barths was horrendous. I didn't necessarily like the whole "banner" deal, but I completely got why she was mad at them. H&C on the other hand were so glad that their friend was coming, and at that point Ramona and Aviva had become as close as H&C had to Aviva. Yet Ramona acted like a bitch while H&C literally screamed in delight when Aviva said she was coming. They would have preferred for Reed to not come, but it didn't matter in the end because it meant that their friend was coming. Where is all the outrage about Sonja and Ramona? Is their behavior less horrendous because they were hateful to her when she was their friend, and then forgave her? Where H&C are more evil because they were treated her special right up until she shit on Carole? I just don't get it. Everyone has different standards, but I always thought Ramona behaved the worse because she was Aviva's friend and then she betrayed her. She made up with her, but then still talked trash about her last season from time to time. On the reunion stage, as her only friend except Sonja, she called her "vile". Why is that never mentioned? There has been talk about the wheelchair and it gets assigned to Heather, while the clip above shows that it was Sonja and Ramona that were cracking jokes about it as well. Yes, Heather got the TH, but they were all mocking the situation, so why is Heather worse than the others? 

 

Regarding the laugh when Sonja said that forgiving Aviva was the "Christian" thing to do, again, why is Heather called out specifically? They were pretty much all laughing, including Andy, who was astounded. They weren't mocking religion, as Lu said (Lu was the one who laughed the loudest and had the most to say about it) they were mocking the fact that as long as they had known her, they had never heard her speak of religion before. Lu was the one to make that comment. Why isn't Lu being raked across the coals for any of this behavior?

 

It seems like when talk runs to Aviva, for whatever reason, it is all put on Heather. They all had issues with her at one time, and they all said things about her. This was a woman who took off her prosthesis and lobbed it across a room. A prosthesis that some people said probably cost tens of thousands of dollars. A prosthesis that any number of people who are missing limbs would love to have but never will. She thought so little of it that she used it as a prop to show her displeasure. That is the kind of person she was and the kind of person they all had to work with. She didn't become that person the minute she lobbed the leg - she was that person long before and they knew it and they were tired of it. They all were. Not just Heather. 

[FaithsMum]

I'm starting to think I'm not a very sensitive person because the "mocking" of Aviva is another thing I'm adding to the list of things that I can't get too worked up about.

I have epilepsy which I wasn't born with or developed when I was very young, it was the result of a sexual assault when a patient apparently didn't much like my bedside manner. I only say this because like Aviva it was the result of a trauma and I've lived life without it. Since its become unmanaged I'm registered disabled. I was thrilled, I got a disabled parking badge! :) People make jokes about it all the time. The people closest to me make jokes about my anorexia that could be considered mocking and offensive. My brother today came to visit me and ate his way through my sweets and chocolate, like he normally does. He made a joke that he's "doing my anorexia a favour so I should stop complaining." I laughed because it was funny (and true!) 95% of the time those jokes are from people who love me and it's intended to be humorous but, when it isn't, when it's mean spirited, I just roll my eyes and keep it moving. I'd be more irritated if anyone were called out on it than I am that they said it in the first place. I'm a nurse who works on A+E so maybe I just have a really thick skin! :)

These women are on a reality show. Their job is to bitch and snark. If Aviva was fat, they'd mock that. If she had a huge nose, they'd mock that. It doesn't make it right but I don't see a whole lot of difference tbh. No disrespect to anyone here but, to me, it's very PC to be outraged when IME those with disabilities are usually the first to poke fun at themselves (I used to work as a carer for the physically disabled) The Housewives did it partly because they dislike her and it's something obvious to pick on and partly as an attempt to be humourous IMO. Sure, it's a cheap laugh but so what? There are many of them about. For me personally, I'd rather have my limitations and craziness poked fun at than people take the more politically correct route of talking about my epilepsy/anorexia in the most serious terms only.

As motorcitymom said Aviva used her prostheses as a freaking prop. She did that for the shock value and the attention. She wears her disability like a badge of honour and has frequently used it to get out of doing things she does not want to do, not can't, doesn't want to since her phobias apparently all stem from the amputation of her leg. As far as I'm concerned, if you behave like that then you're opening yourself up to what I consider pretty gentle mocking from the other women. Neither are right, but Aviva's no angel. It's one thing for people to be accepting of your physical limitations - which they absolutely should - but when they appear to only exist when it suits, they become fair game.

Edited June 19, 2015 by FaithsMum

[ryebread]

I guess I don't understand why all of this is coming at Heather?

 

This is a very good, thought provoking question, MCM.  All I have is that I've never trusted her from the git.  She's the self proclaimed boss and I've always viewed her as the ringleader and not in a good way.  Ya know how when you dislike a HW and develop tunnel vision?  For some it's Brandi.  Others Kim Richards.  For most, it's Aviva.  For me, it's Heather.  I'm not saying the others haven't had a turn under my microscope but Heather is, indeed, a stand out.

 

I just see very little to like there.  I realize I'm in the minority - not as alone as I was last season - but I really, really don't trust her. 

 

I'd hate to see her go because she's a fascinating case study for me.  For instance, I've not seen this mentioned, but in the Berks at Dori's b'day, two or three times she slyly took a dig at Bethenny ("She's not even listening" insert ingratiating smile.  "She thinks I'm tennnnding to her")  Now these were hardly noticeable compared to all the 'nurturing' she's been loudly accused of doing that night.  But both times she did it, it was like she was tattling.  And as she did it, she looked to Dorinda for approval.  Like she was looking for members to join her posse. Maybe I'm crazy. But these little things, in addition to the glaring things that others see, are why I just can't stand her. Whenever she speaks and she's cutting someone down - subtly or balls to the wall (and whether they deserve it or not) - I watch for that need to have everyone's approval when she's doing it.  I think it's real. She has a very unique style when she's doing it.

[motorcitymom65]

This is a very good, thought provoking question, MCM.  All I have is that I've never trusted her from the git.  She's the self proclaimed boss and I've always viewed her as the ringleader and not in a good way.  Ya know how when you dislike a HW and develop tunnel vision?  For some it's Brandi.  Others Kim Richards.  For most, it's Aviva.  For me, it's Heather.  I'm not saying the others haven't had a turn under my microscope but Heather is, indeed, a stand out.

 

I just see very little to like there.  I realize I'm in the minority - not as alone as I was last season - but I really, really don't trust her. 

 

I'd hate to see her go because she's a fascinating case study for me.  For instance, I've not seen this mentioned, but in the Berks at Dori's b'day, two or three times she slyly took a dig at Bethenny ("She's not even listening" insert ingratiating smile.  "She thinks I'm tennnnding to her")  Now these were hardly noticeable compared to all the 'nurturing' she's been loudly accused of doing that night.  But both times she did it, it was like she was tattling.  And as she did it, she looked to Dorinda for approval.  Like she was looking for members to join her posse. Maybe I'm crazy. But these little things, in addition to the glaring things that others see, are why I just can't stand her. Whenever she speaks and she's cutting someone down - subtly or balls to the wall (and whether they deserve it or not) - I watch for that need to have everyone's approval when she's doing it.  I think it's real. She has a very unique style when she's doing it.

I don't agree with it all, but I love the way you spell it all out. Awesome.

[ryebread]

I'm starting to think I'm not a very sensitive person because the "mocking" of Aviva is another thing I'm adding to the list of things that I can't get too worked up about.

I have epilepsy which I wasn't born with or developed when I was very young, it was the result of a sexual assault when a patient apparently didn't much like my bedside manner. I only say this because like Aviva it was the result of a trauma and I've lived life without it. Since its become unmanaged I'm registered disabled. I was thrilled, I got a disabled parking badge! :) People make jokes about it all the time. The people closest to me make jokes about my anorexia that could be considered mocking and offensive. My brother today came to visit me and ate his way through my sweets and chocolate, like he normally does. He made a joke that he's "doing my anorexia a favour so I should stop complaining." I laughed because it was funny (and true!) 95% of the time those jokes are from people who love me and it's intended to be humorous but, when it isn't, when it's mean spirited, I just roll my eyes and keep it moving. I'd be more irritated if anyone were called out on it than I am that they said it in the first place. I'm a nurse who works on A+E so maybe I just have a really thick skin! :)

These women are on a reality show. Their job is to bitch and snark. If Aviva was fat, they'd mock that. If she had a huge nose, they'd mock that. It doesn't make it right but I don't see a whole lot of difference tbh. No disrespect to anyone here but, to me, it's very PC to be outraged when IME those with disabilities are usually the first to poke fun at themselves (I used to work as a carer for the physically disabled) The Housewives did it partly because they dislike her and it's something obvious to pick on and partly as an attempt to be humourous IMO. Sure, it's a cheap laugh but so what? There are many of them about. For me personally, I'd rather have my limitations and craziness poked fun at than people take the more politically correct route of talking about my epilepsy/anorexia in the most serious terms only.

 

I just think people are all wired differently and that's cool. 

 

My sister is fat. She makes fun of herself, laughs when her kids make jokes about her weight and I get sick to my stomach. And outraged.  I think when they do that, it's cruel.  Whether it bothers her or not, it's a terrible way, imo, to let her children disrespect her and grow up believing that's okay.  That's 3 more little people in the world that think it's okay to mock people for something they can't help. 

 

As  motorcitymom said Aviva used her prostheses as a freaking prop. She did that for the shock value and the attention. She wears her disability like a badge of honour and has frequently used it to get out of doing things she does not want to do, not can't, doesn't want to since her phobias apparently all stem from the amputation of her leg. As far as I'm concerned, if you behave like that then you're opening yourself up to what I consider pretty gentle mocking from the other women.

 

She absolutely did.  She planned the grand exit that people are still talking about.  She does wear her disability like a badge and uses it to her advantage.  She's a nutbag.  I guess I'd just respect Heather and the rest more if they hadn't sunk to her level and became nutbags themselves.  I know, people will say, "What were they supposed to do?  Just let her walk all over Carole?"  Well, no.  Imo, Carole could've handled it differently.  Heather didn't need to get so involved.  Just because my friend (or enemy)is nasty, doesn't mean I'm going to change my base behavior and roll with the dogs.  Luckily, not a one of my friends is nasty so I'll never have to go down that road.  Carole and Heather and et al are not me, nor am I them.  Different strokes for different folks.  But like you said, they put their behavior out there to be talked about.

[Rhetorica]

I don't agree with it all, but I love the way you spell it all out. Awesome.

motorcitymom65, I'm just curious. Since you don't agree, what do you think her asides are?

[ryebread]

I don't agree with it all, but I love the way you spell it all out. Awesome.

 

And I appreciate that you and I are able to have civil discourse about someone we feel so differently about. Good thing, too.  Because I know your general vicinity. ;-)

[FaithsMum]

I just think people are all wired differently and that's cool.

My sister is fat. She makes fun of herself, laughs when her kids make jokes about her weight and I get sick to my stomach. And outraged. I think when they do that, it's cruel. Whether it bothers her or not, it's a terrible way, imo, to let her children disrespect her and grow up believing that's okay. That's 3 more little people in the world that think it's okay to mock people for something they can't help.

She absolutely did. She planned the grand exit that people are still talking about. She does wear her disability like a badge and uses it to her advantage. She's a nutbag. I guess I'd just respect Heather and the rest more if they hadn't sunk to her level and became nutbags themselves. I know, people will say, "What were they supposed to do? Just let her walk all over Carole?" Well, no. Imo, Carole could've handled it differently. Heather didn't need to get so involved. Just because my friend (or enemy)is nasty, doesn't mean I'm going to change my base behavior and roll with the dogs. Luckily, not a one of my friends is nasty so I'll never have to go down that road. Carole and Heather and et al are not me, nor am I them. Different strokes for different folks. But like you said, they put their behavior out there to be talked about.

I do agree with you about your sisters children to some extent. While I'm the first to poke fun at my own shit, and I'm happy for others to make their own jokes, my children don't, and wouldn't. And no one says anything in front of them either. I have a pretty thick skin and I grew up in a family that teases and mocks one another for all kinds of things which to outsiders would seem very inappropriate but since I recognise that not everyone is like me, I wouldn't want my children to grow up hurting people's feelings because saying something that would have been funny in our home is offensive in someone else's. My children already have me as a mother, they've got enough crosses to bear!

I don't like Heather either, btw. We mostly share the same opinion of her. I think the difference is this show means these woman are forced to interact and unlike in the real world where if we were to publicly scream at a co-worker, we'd be in all kinds of shit, that is in their job description. If a friend was getting a little too mean or whatever, we just wouldn't - to sound like a five year old now - be their friend anymore. Because of the show, these women don't have that option not to interact with someone they loathe at least until their contract is up.

It's not a real life environment, I guess that's what I'm trying to say but it's 4am so please forgive me! I do agree that just because someone is being nasty doesn't mean you have to be either but I think tolerance levels must be so much lower on a reality show because interacting with them is your job and you don't really have the option of just staying out of someone's way. I would never in a million years go on any reality show but I imagine it probably wouldn't bring out the best of me if I was forced to spend large amounts of time in the presence of these nutjobs and I'd possibly stoop to levels I wouldn't necessarily in my real life. (I went to type out specific names originally but then realised I was listing them all!) Not that I think any of them are all sweetness and light away from the cameras but I think reality shows probably exacerbate the less endearing parts of your personality added to the fact they're all fighting for their scenes not to end up on the cutting room floor. It's an artificial environment and not all the rules of real life can be applied, I don't think.

Edited June 19, 2015 by FaithsMum

[AnnA]

I didn't watch the past few seasons so Heather and Kristen are as new to me as Dorinda.  While Heather hasn't done anything really horrible (yet) this season, I don't trust her.   The one thing I've noticed about her is that when she walks into a room, she gives the impression that everyone in that room should immediately acknowledge her presence because after all.....she is Heather.  She's too full of herself for my taste.

 

I will give her props for seemingly backing down on her interactions with Bethenny.  I don't think that's easy for her to do.  She's too accustomed to getting her own way.

Edited June 19, 2015 by AnnA

[lunastartron]

Why wouldn't Heather garner significant - or even most - of the attention for the animus toward Aviva when she appointed herself "the boss lady" of everyone else; literally orders her acolytes on how and when to (dis)engage from Aviva ("you're done"); and commanders a dispute that originated between Aviva and Carole to the point that she shushes Carole at the reunion in order to assume the mantle of vitriol? I happen to think Ramona and Sonja were and are rude and entitled to most of the cast mates with whom they have exchanges (including Aviva in St. Barth's; aside from the weird "banner" fixation, I never understood what was so objectionable about Aviva making more or less accurate statements about the duo). I also happen to regard Lu as the NY Housewife most likely to turn on a dime per situational convenience (she instigates a lot of conflict, including SB). But, in the context of recent events and those highlighted in this thread, Heather was responsible for escalating, perpetuating, and stoking most of the hatred for Aviva, and she did it per pretty classic middle-school sociopathy: she, of course, tried the "no one likes you" gambit during her drunken tirade (even though Sonja supported Aviva and LuAnn invited her to the party); she tried to steer all of the women into championing Carole at the housewarming, only to shut down the conversation when it didn't go her way and Sonja refuted her; she suddenly decided that she was going to have a problem with stuff Aviva said a year prior when it was convenient and she and Carole needed to drive home to Kristen how eeevil Aviva was; she did the whole "why is she even coming"/"whats wrong with her, why didn't she come?!" turnaround; and, of course, literally laid down the fiat abbout how everyone was supposed to greet Aviva's documentation after the discussion ad nauseum about how Aviva was manufacturing all of her reasons for not going on the trip. The entire trajectory was practically Kafkaesque . . . As for the argument that every aspect of these women's lives is fair game for derision and disrespect, I have to disagree. If that were true, there should be noproblem with Brandi Glanville making factually true reveals about her cast mates when she decides she doesn't like them or trying to humiliate a rival by talking about how certain anatomy registers olfactorily. There should be no problem with Aviva taking it to Carole's professional record if dislike legitimizes every and all manner of salvo. And, again, Heather is always making pronouncements about moral certitude: you just don't do that!; that's a line you just don't cross!; you NEVER do that. But those boundaries and absolutes never seem to apply to herself. She's every bit as selective as LuAnn and Ramona have demonstrated themselves to be.

[AnnaMayWong]

I guess I don't understand why all of this is coming at Heather? I hopped over to the Sonja and Ramona threads and not a peep about how they treated Aviva. IMO the way they acted when she arrived in St. Barths was horrendous. I didn't necessarily like the whole "banner" deal, but I completely got why she was mad at them. H&C on the other hand were so glad that their friend was coming, and at that point Ramona and Aviva had become as close as H&C had to Aviva. Yet Ramona acted like a bitch while H&C literally screamed in delight when Aviva said she was coming. They would have preferred for Reed to not come, but it didn't matter in the end because it meant that their friend was coming. Where is all the outrage about Sonja and Ramona? Is their behavior less horrendous because they were hateful to her when she was their friend, and then forgave her? Where H&C are more evil because they were treated her special right up until she shit on Carole? I just don't get it. Everyone has different standards, but I always thought Ramona behaved the worse because she was Aviva's friend and then she betrayed her. She made up with her, but then still talked trash about her last season from time to time. On the reunion stage, as her only friend except Sonja, she called her "vile". Why is that never mentioned? There has been talk about the wheelchair and it gets assigned to Heather, while the clip above shows that it was Sonja and Ramona that were cracking jokes about it as well. Yes, Heather got the TH, but they were all mocking the situation, so why is Heather worse than the others?

Regarding the laugh when Sonja said that forgiving Aviva was the "Christian" thing to do, again, why is Heather called out specifically? They were pretty much all laughing, including Andy, who was astounded. They weren't mocking religion, as Lu said (Lu was the one who laughed the loudest and had the most to say about it) they were mocking the fact that as long as they had known her, they had never heard her speak of religion before. Lu was the one to make that comment. Why isn't Lu being raked across the coals for any of this behavior?

It seems like when talk runs to Aviva, for whatever reason, it is all put on Heather. They all had issues with her at one time, and they all said things about her. This was a woman who took off her prosthesis and lobbed it across a room. A prosthesis that some people said probably cost tens of thousands of dollars. A prosthesis that any number of people who are missing limbs would love to have but never will. She thought so little of it that she used it as a prop to show her displeasure. That is the kind of person she was and the kind of person they all had to work with. She didn't become that person the minute she lobbed the leg - she was that person long before and they knew it and they were tired of it. They all were. Not just Heather.

(Applause! Applause!)

[ryebread]

Heather was responsible for escalating, perpetuating, and stoking most of the hatred for Aviva, and she did it per pretty classic middle-school sociopathy: she, of course, tried the "no one likes you" gambit during her drunken tirade (even though Sonja supported Aviva and LuAnn invited her to the party); she tried to steer all of the women into championing Carole at the housewarming, only to shut down the conversation when it didn't go her way.

I feel like a need a cigarette.  That was all so good.

 

In addition to the 2 things I mentioned, upthread, about how Heather scolds/tattles and then looks to others for approval/agreement, I just remembered another instance at that dinner.  She was talking to Beth and said, "That makes it sound like I'm suffocating you." Then she looks at Dorinda. You almost expect her to say, "Why is she even here"/"whats wrong with her? Don't you all agree?"  I think Heather got so upset and is still upset because she's probably able to topple whomever she's tangling with, with a single blow. And Bethenny, as messy as she was that night, just didn't fall.

 

Heather has met her match - that is for sure. 

[Mozelle]

So, Ramona slithers into Aviva's apartment, tells Carole something that Aviva told her, which upset Carole (because it was malicious gossip meant to undermine her career), and gets to back out without anything being pinned on her. But we won't call that escalation of drama on Ramona's end. 

 

I'm also not going to pretend that Sonja's "support" was anything but self-serving. She was fucking Harry, whose son had been asked by his mother (Aviva) about their relationship. It seems that in order to keep things copacetic on that front, Sonja felt it beneficial to act like she was all for Aviva. Sonja is no longer sexing up Harry it seems, and since Aviva is no longer on the show, either, it looks like that alliance made from a house of cards has crumbled. 

Edited June 19, 2015 by Mozelle

[Crikey]

I didn't watch the past few seasons so Heather and Kristen are as new to me as Dorinda.  While Heather hasn't done anything really horrible (yet) this season, I don't trust her.   The one thing I've noticed about her is that when she walks into a room, she gives the impression that everyone in that room should immediately acknowledge her presence because after all.....she is Heather.  She's too full of herself for my taste.

 

I will give her props for seemingly backing down on her interactions with Bethenny.  I don't think that's easy for her to do.  She's too accustomed to getting her own way.

I haven't noticed that but now you have me watching for it in upcoming episodes lol

It reminded of a quote:

There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who walk into a room and say, 'There you are' and those who say, 'Here I am'

~ Pauline Phillips

[howivesforever]

I like Heather. I think she is a really good, kind person at heart, but she doesn't take bs. She defends the people she cares about. She was clearly trying to form a friendship with Bethenny. Heather clearly didn't know in the beginning Bethenny was bat shit and completely off balance. Now that she knows this she acts accordingly.

[ryebread]

Heather clearly didn't know in the beginning Bethenny was bat shit and completely off balance. Now that she knows this she acts accordingly.

 

If she watched any of the seasons Bethenny was on RHONY or any of her spin offs or talk show, or paid one ounce of attention to the media surrounding her - how could she not know?

 

Even if she watched it all and liked what she saw and thought they could be friends, I'm still amazed at how tone deaf she was after Bethenny was so erratic.

[zoeysmom]

I feel for Heather I do believe she went into this season with great expectations it would be fun and she would make the best of the large cast.  Instead it is as if Heather has been forced to take  personality suppressants  I would have liked to have Heather the Bethenny and Carole dinner.  Maybe instead of Carole making up sex dreams about  Bethenny could have gotten to know Heather better. 

Edited June 19, 2015 by zoeysmom

[lunastartron]

I can't believe I forgot my favorite middle-school mindfuck technique in which Heather has indulged: after going on the offensive, play the victim. Whine "don't yell at me" to a man when he takes umbrage at the fact that you're screaming and chasing after his wife (funny how shouting isn't a problem when Heather is screaming at people, cursing, and threatening to "deck" them). Then, of course, revise events captured on camera and contend that Aviva "sic"ced her "minion" on you (despite the fact that you pursued said minion across a very large house, said minion was so thirsty for screen time she was practically salivating, and Aviva was occupied with Carole) . . . I will never understand the premise that Heather was earnestly trying to be a sympathetic, gold-hearted friend to abusive Bethenny - it's just too simplistic, imo (why would you roll your eyes at a third party's references to the emotional turmoil of Bethenny if you hungered for her friendship? Why would you curse at and then subsequently reengage with her for the express purpose of scolding her in front of a table full of people? It's not as if Bethenny wasn't curt and impolite to Heather on occasions herself but I just don't think that Heather approached her with generous-spirited, sunshiney intentions).

[Trooper York]

Well the reason why Heather seems more sympathetic this season is that she is only a .300 hitter as a bitch while Bethenny is a Hall of Famer. 

 

She is getting karmic jujitsu because of how she treated Aviva last season. Bullies love it until a bigger bully comes along.

[imjagain]

So somebody throws out "I'm pretty sure Carole and Heather mocked Aviva's disability"   and they are bully devils?  But no proof is ever provided.

 

it reminds me of Shannon  telling Heather D on OC.

 

 

This is where it came up here last season.  Towards the bottom of the page it was stated that Heather and Carole made fun of Aviva's disability.  And if you read the follow up postings, no one verified it -  unless I missed something.

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/11472-s06e20-the-last-leg/page-8

 

 

"You can't say I said/did something but cant remember what I said/did".

[howivesforever]

If she watched any of the seasons Bethenny was on RHONY or any of her spin offs or talk show, or paid one ounce of attention to the media surrounding her - how could she not know?

Even if she watched it all and liked what she saw and thought they could be friends, I'm still amazed at how tone deaf she was after Bethenny was so erratic.

To be honest I don't think many people have experience with dealing with personalities like Bethenny's. I think Heather had made up in her mind they would click because they both started from the bottom and created sucessful businesses. They are both smart,savy and no non sense kinda people. I think she was shell shocked that didn't happen and it took her a minute to back off. I also think Bethenny wrongly faults Heather for Aviva's departure from the show because after all Bethenny is the reason she was on the show in the first place. Edited June 19, 2015 by howivesforever

[MissMissy]

I just got back into RHONY after leaving during seasons 5 & 6. I had to go back and watch those older seasons to find out more about Heather, Carole, Kristin...and to figure out why this Aviva person was so hated by everyone. Now that I just binge-watched those two Aviva seasons, I am so disturbed by the behavior or Heather, Carole amd Kristin toward her. I was upset at Ramona and Sonja the previous season. You have put into words so perfectly what bothered me so deeply about Heather's behavior especially (as well as Carole's and Kristin's).

It's been an interesting case study to watch and I've been so bothered by not just the women on the show but by the general public's double standard and bullying of this woman.

[lunastartron]

Interesting to hear the perspective of someone unfamiliar with all of the new cast regarding the most recent two seasons since I think most perceptions of the women become cumulative.

[jaync]

It's been an interesting case study to watch and I've been so bothered by not just the women on the show but by the general public's double standard and bullying of this woman.

Not everybody believes that Aviva was bullied, so there isn't a double standard at play on the part of those holding that opinion.

Anyway, Aviva has her own thread, so...

[Mozelle]

I also think the term "bullying" on these shows is so overused, and I don't think its usage is accurate. In general, these are women who either like each other or don't. To employ the term because they fight with each other is on some Kelly Killoren Bensimon "systematic bullying" wave length. 

Edited June 22, 2015 by Mozelle

[lunastartron]

Yeah, Aviva has her own thread. However, the post above addresses Heather's behavior toward Aviva, which is a lot more relevant to this topic than why there are comparably fewer posts referencing Ramona and Sonja's rudeness, a question that cropped up here relatively recently . . . Sure, these women have fights and the show has even promoted the premise of teams before with reunion seating. However, in my opinion, there's a significant difference between disagreements that arise organically and the deliberately orchestrated, pre-meditated obsession that Heather and Co. exhibited vis-a-vis Aviva. One definition of "bully": "a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and/or intimidates others." Sounds like Heather to me! And while I don't think that Scary Island exemplified systematic bullying since it was a one-time incident, it was just as gross to watch B, Ramona, and Alex cackling over a clearly chemical episode as it was to see Heather behave like a lunatic in the Hamptons or dispense orders to Kristen and Carole just so she could berate Aviva some more.

[Mozelle]

Yeah, they argued. Argued. I don't classify that as bullying. I mean, are we going to call what Aviva did to Carole (badgering, blustering, being overbearing) as it regards spreading malicious gossip "bullying" or nah? 

 

These are grown ass women arguing with each other. Heather argued with Aviva. She didn't bully her. 

[ryebread]

Aviva did what to Carole again?  The more I see Carole's disinterest in her 'craft' this season, the more I believe Aviva was on to something. 

 

Actually, I voiced that last season.  To a loud chorus of, "No way. Aviva is a crazy bitch for suggesting Carole had help. How dare she discredit someone's livelihood?!  She deserved everything she got. Carole is an artiste.  She was on Oprah."

 

Which is cool.  We all have our opinions about the HWs.  Mine is that Carole protested too much. Then she stretched the truth to her muscle, Heather 'The Hammer' Thomson, and we were off to the racetrack.

[Mozelle]

Aviva spread malicious gossip, that's what. I'm also of the mind that had Carole not rebutted the gossip, the responses would have been, "Well, it must true then." So, whatever. The larger point I'm making is that Heather didn't "bully" Aviva any more than Aviva was a "bully" to Carole.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Mozelle