Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

MCM, you are being very unfair.  Grandad Hoppy was convalescing from an illness or medical procedure, and was given strict orders to wear sleeping garments 24/7, and air his junk out in front of anyone he happens upon in the home.   Poor Jason was simply showing solidarity by doing the same. 

And it certainly wasn't their fault the evil bitch used the apartment as an office.  I mean it wasn't as if the office had ever been there prior to that day.  As for the food, when one wanders into the kitchen in one's skivvies, why would a professionally catered meal, clearly prepared for a larger number of people, clue anyone into the fact that the noise of many voices and commotion would connote professional business was being conducted in an office that no one even knew about?

As to the innocent toddler exposed to glimpses of grandpa's balls, well no one has testified that the child was present.  After all, why would a younger than pre-school-age child be present in the very home her mother, father, and Grandfather were present?

And even if she were present, it is Jason's absolute right to expose his child in his home to his father's sleeping garments.  It's perfectly normal attire for older men to wear around young female children, and just proves what a close, loving family the Hoppys are.  Something Bethenny could never understand, due to her dysfunctional childhood.  

Anyway, even though this is perfectly normal and justifiable behavior, it never happened because Bethenny is a patholiogical liar, chronic user of hyperbole, psychopath.  In fact, she's worse than the biggest serial killers and mass murderers of our time. 

Fair enough. What on earth was I thinking? In my defense, I keep forgetting that the old geezer was apparently suffering through some major health issue and convalescing. Shame on me. 

[zoeysmom]

2 minutes ago, film noire said:

And (iirc) Bethenny lived with Bobby Frankel (after he left Bernadette) for about a year -- b/c Bernadette was so crazy -- and she only moved back when Bernadette married Bobby Frankel's best friend. 

I am amazed when I look at what Bethenny has written in her nonfiction books and what she is trying to sell now.  It is truly astonishing:

"I have never wanted to admit that I need anyone, but I can finally say, I need Jason.  That's a huge confession for me.  Seeing the words I am amazed I can even admit them to myself  let alone you.  But it is true.  When I travel, he and Bryn travel with me, and Jason does most of the heavy lifting with our baby.  He'll come to LA with me, fly on the red eye and come to every photo shoot just to keep our family together.  I know it can be excruciating for him, but he does it because he understands what it means to be in a relationship, to be a good husband and father.  This is marriage."

"So how can I be irritated when he wants to go to the gym every day, or hit golf balls for a few hours or have his parents come for a visit?  I am learning to say yes to him as much as he says yes to me.  By suggesting he invite his parents for the weekend, by being in a good mood I can make those little gestures that acknowledge his place of yes."

I think there is a pattern of bullshit and no shortage of self promotion and branding. 
. 

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Maybe some here don't follow Kyle Richards?  I do, but had never heard this interesting revelation.  Have Kyle and Bethenny had sex with at least two other men in common (Pirate, Harry)?  Has Beth had sex with Kyle's sloppy seconds who had also had sex with another friend of K and B (Harry)?  It's not nearly as gross because hey aren't cast mates.  A comparable story to Lu's would be the revelation  that Pinky met and married Ken, who had been in the midst of dating Kyle, and had an ongoing fuckbuddy agreement with Eileen. 

As to your second paragraph, the story now is that Adam was Lu's niece's guy?  I feel sure they were broken up with the niece harboring wishes to hook back up.  Carole hit on Yolanda's husband?  I never heard about that.  Regardless, it's not an apt comparison.  Carole is not portraying herself as a respectable married woman, which was what the OP described Lu as attempting. 

I've never heard the thing about Kyle and Beth either, but maybe we will learn more. As far as I am aware, it was never part of the show, the way the men swapping between Lu and Sonja has been. It is actually quite astonishing. They have slept with 3 men in common (that we know about). Might be something you see in kids at college, but how common is that for women in their mid-40's? If something like that had gone on in my circle of friends, it would be the topic of converation all of the time. It would never get old. 

Regarding the thing with Carole. She didn't hit on Yo's husband. She said once that she had met David before he met Yo, and she was attracted to him (I shudder and sip mightily from my Vodka Tonic as I type these words). But then he met Yo, fell in love and got married, and she became friends with Yo. No scandal here. 

16 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I am amazed when I look at what Bethenny has written in her nonfiction books and what she is trying to sell now.  It is truly astonishing:

"I have never wanted to admit that I need anyone, but I can finally say, I need Jason.  That's a huge confession for me.  Seeing the words I am amazed I can even admit them to myself  let alone you.  But it is true.  When I travel, he and Bryn travel with me, and Jason does most of the heavy lifting with our baby.  He'll come to LA with me, fly on the red eye and come to every photo shoot just to keep our family together.  I know it can be excruciating for him, but he does it because he understands what it means to be in a relationship, to be a good husband and father.  This is marriage."

"So how can I be irritated when he wants to go to the gym every day, or hit golf balls for a few hours or have his parents come for a visit?  I am learning to say yes to him as much as he says yes to me.  By suggesting he invite his parents for the weekend, by being in a good mood I can make those little gestures that acknowledge his place of yes."

I think there is a pattern of bullshit and no shortage of self promotion and branding. 
. 

People in love say the craziest things. 

[zoeysmom]

8 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I've never heard the thing about Kyle and Beth either, but maybe we will learn more. As far as I am aware, it was never part of the show, the way the men swapping between Lu and Sonja has been. It is actually quite astonishing. They have slept with 3 men in common (that we know about). Might be something you see in kids at college, but how common is that for women in their mid-40's? If something like that had gone on in my circle of friends, it would be the topic of converation all of the time. It would never get old. 

Regarding the thing with Carole. She didn't hit on Yo's husband. She said once that she had met David before he met Yo, and she was attracted to him (I shudder and sip mightily from my Vodka Tonic as I type these words). But then he met Yo, fell in love and got married, and she became friends with Yo. No scandal here. 

People in love say the craziest things. 

Well it was part of RHOBH last year when they were visiting Bethenny.  Kyle told the story.  Harry became part of the story because new to the scene Heather had shoot off her mouth to Aviva-who had been married to the guy.  I would it differently-these are women in their fifties and through various times in their lives they have been single and have dated the same men.  Luann may not have known about Sonja when she was dating Harry and had no idea Aviva would become part of the show. 

I guess it is futile to ask why it would be a continuing conversation.  Does it make someone feel better? Or is just fun to demean people?  Can't change your past but it is true there will always be those who won't let you live it down. At some point it is old news and in this case Luann has let it be known she doesn't not want to be part of the conversation. 

Carole said she met David and was interested in him and then found out he was with Yolanda.  She met Yolanda and they became friends.  Gee David is available again, Carole should revisit.

[motorcitymom65]

12 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Well it was part of RHOBH last year when they were visiting Bethenny.  Kyle told the story.  Harry became part of the story because new to the scene Heather had shoot off her mouth to Aviva-who had been married to the guy.  I would it differently-these are women in their fifties and through various times in their lives they have been single and have dated the same men.  Luann may not have known about Sonja when she was dating Harry and had no idea Aviva would become part of the show. 

I guess it is futile to ask why it would be a continuing conversation.  Does it make someone feel better? Or is just fun to demean people?  Can't change your past but it is true there will always be those who won't let you live it down. At some point it is old news and in this case Luann has let it be known she doesn't not want to be part of the conversation. 

Carole said she met David and was interested in him and then found out he was with Yolanda.  She met Yolanda and they became friends.  Gee David is available again, Carole should revisit.

Not meant to demean anyone, but geez, this would just be big news to us. Maybe we are just not sophisticated enough, but if two gals in our group of 7 had shared three of the same men, it would come up. We would try to find a way to work it into every single conversation. We would invent reasons to chat about it because it would never not be fascinating. We are still gossiping about the gal across the street who was sleeping with the guy who lived next door. We are pretty simple folks and easily entertained/shocked. Besides, I have an interest in being part of a forum where we actively and intensely discuss every single detail of the lives of people we see on Realty TV but have never so much as rubbed up against. So when the shit show comes into my own group, yep, I am going to ramble on about it. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by motorcitymom65

[zoeysmom]

32 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Not meant to demean anyone, but geez, this would just be big news to us. Maybe we are just not sophisticated enough, but if two gals in our group of 7 had shared three of the same men, it would come up. We would try to find a way to work it into every single conversation. We would invent reasons to chat about it because it would never not be fascinating. We are still gossiping about the gal across the street who was sleeping with the guy who lived next door. We are pretty simple folks and easily entertained/shocked. Besides, I have an interest in being part of a forum where we actively and intensely discuss every single detail of the lives of people we see on Realty TV but have never so much as rubbed up against. So when the shit show comes into my own group, yep, I am going to ramble on about it. 

All I can say is it would take six figures for me to stay with a group of women that wanted to keep talking about the men sharing thing-to what end? And I would also want an en-suite room when we travelled not a bathroom down the hall. ;-D   It doesn't define who the person is-it says more about those that want to further the conversation.  I kind of feel like if you have moved on and are in a committed relationship it is time to retire the locker room talk about former lovers.  If the other friends want to keep talking about it -time for them to find new friends.  I just am one of those people that does not want to be uncomfortable around my friends or make my friends feel uncomfortable.  

I guess what I am saying is maybe Bethenny would not hear, especially in her vernacular, about the guy she and Kyle shared.  Maybe she would.  I can't imagine LVP or Lisa Rinna bringing it up every time they  were together.   

[breezy424]

Here's pretty much the first sixty pages from A Place of Yes.

https://books.google.com/books?id=I-SAcg7Ves0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=a+place+of+yes&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjX4Kjh1-nUAhVGVz4KHQ4SDEsQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=a place of yes&f=false

She talks about Jason as a father.  In one section, she talks about her stepfather but I don't see a mention of physical abuse or attacking her.  In another, she talks about her father when growing up and the letter she sent him after he refused to see her the first time when he was dying.  He apparently didn't forgive her for saying that she doesn't have one.  She doesn't mention her father walking her down the aisle for her first marriage.

I've never read any of Beth's books but reading this was all kinds of interesting to me.  She really slams her father but at the same time she's a lot like the man she is describing IMO.  Of course, there are others who have a totally different opinion of Bobby Frankel.  I don't know what the real truth is in Beth's life.

[BBHN]

Quote

How come no one ever talks about Betheeny taking Kyle Richards sloppy seconds?  I mean they were so fresh that Kyle had left her make up remover behind?  Bethenny et al, roar over Harry and Luann, Tom and Sonja. 

I haven't seen anything that blows up Luann and Tom being happily married. Carole hitting on Luann's niece's guy, Carole hitting on David Foster.  There are separate sets of rules on this show. 

Probably because it is absolutely trivial and has nothing whatsoever to do with the divorce between Jason and Bethenny. Unless David Foster was somehow an accessory to the stalking and harassment charges Jason is facing?

[zoeysmom]

50 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Here's pretty much the first sixty pages from A Place of Yes.

https://books.google.com/books?id=I-SAcg7Ves0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=a+place+of+yes&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjX4Kjh1-nUAhVGVz4KHQ4SDEsQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=a place of yes&f=false

She talks about Jason as a father.  In one section, she talks about her stepfather but I don't see a mention of physical abuse or attacking her.  In another, she talks about her father when growing up and the letter she sent him after he refused to see her the first time when he was dying.  He apparently didn't forgive her for saying that she doesn't have one.  She doesn't mention her father walking her down the aisle for her first marriage.

I've never read any of Beth's books but reading this was all kinds of interesting to me.  She really slams her father but at the same time she's a lot like the man she is describing IMO.  Of course, there are others who have a totally different opinion of Bobby Frankel.  I don't know what the real truth is in Beth's life.

Well I got cut off when Bethenny was talking about being full of shit and constipated her entire adult life.  A fitting note to the end on I suppose. 

It is kind of sad she was very in love with Jason at one point. 

Thanks for the link. 

[film noire]

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

 "When I travel, he and Bryn travel with me, and Jason does most of the heavy lifting with our baby.  He'll come to LA with me, fly on the red eye and come to every photo shoot just to keep our family together.  I know it can be excruciating for him, but he does it because he understands what it means to be in a relationship, to be a good husband and father.  This is marriage."
. 

It's truly sad they went from that (he's the one doing the heavy lifting, her feeling so supported)  -- to her calling him "white trash" & trying to get sole custody and him sending 160 emails and facing stalking charges - crazy and very sad.

Quote

I think there is a pattern of bullshit and no shortage of self promotion and branding. 

Yes. And the stories keep changing, as the needs of the Bethenny brand change or evolve -- when Frankel said that her father left her life when she was four, I believed her.  I thought he left her life when she was four. Thought he was a deadbeat Dad who did a runner, leaving her with a lunatic mother & stepfather soon after. And that she'd spent years fruitlessly trying to reach out to him, only to be rebuffed. Then I found out she lived with her Dad, post divorce (when she was four or five) because her mother was so crazy. So not only did he not abandon her,  she went to live with him. And then I found out they had contact off and on through the years, and he walked her down the aisle at her first wedding -- and possibly paid for college and rent (can't find a trustworthy source for that one) -- so even though he very well might have been an emotionally unavailable  asshole who didn't give her anywhere near what she deserved and needed -- still: turns out, he didn't leave her life when she was four.  And I think she chooses to say things like that very cannily, and for maximum impact, so viewers react from the gut, not to the facts. It's manipulation under the guise of disclosure. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by film noire

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, film noire said:

It's truly sad they went from that (he's the one doing the heavy lifting, her feeling so supported)  -- to her calling him "white trash" & trying to get sole custody and him sending 160 emails and facing stalking charges - crazy and very sad.

Yes. And the stories keep changing, as the needs of the Bethenny brand change or evolve -- when Frankel said that her father left her life when she was four, I believed her.  I thought he left her life when she was four. Thought he was a deadbeat Dad who did a runner, leaving her with a lunatic mother & stepfather soon after. And that she'd spent years fruitlessly trying to reach out to him, only to be rebuffed. Then I found out she lived with her Dad, post divorce (when she was four or five) because her mother was so crazy. So not only did he not abandon her,  she went to live with him. And then I found out they had contact off and on through the years, and he walked her down the aisle at her first wedding -- and possibly paid for college and rent (can't find a trustworthy source for that one) -- so even though he very well might have been an emotionally unavailable  asshole who didn't give her anywhere near what she deserved and needed -- still: turns out, he didn't leave her life when she was four.  And I think she chooses to say things like that very cannily, and for maximum impact, so viewers react from the gut, not to the facts. It's manipulation under the guise of disclosure. 

They all try to control their own narrative, their own backstory, but Bethenny has taken it to a different level IMO. She is counting on viewers taking her at her word, even though she changes her story to suit her needs at any given moment, she really believes that most will not remember what she says or how it differs each time. IMO, she is the Queen of manipulation, especially when it comes to the viewers.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, breezy424 said:

Here's pretty much the first sixty pages from A Place of Yes.

https://books.google.com/books?id=I-SAcg7Ves0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=a+place+of+yes&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjX4Kjh1-nUAhVGVz4KHQ4SDEsQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=a place of yes&f=false

She talks about Jason as a father.  In one section, she talks about her stepfather but I don't see a mention of physical abuse or attacking her.  In another, she talks about her father when growing up and the letter she sent him after he refused to see her the first time when he was dying.  He apparently didn't forgive her for saying that she doesn't have one.  She doesn't mention her father walking her down the aisle for her first marriage.

I've never read any of Beth's books but reading this was all kinds of interesting to me.  She really slams her father but at the same time she's a lot like the man she is describing IMO.  Of course, there are others who have a totally different opinion of Bobby Frankel.  I don't know what the real truth is in Beth's life.

Thanks for the link - and yet another twist in the Bethenny brand! -- out with the raging child who had it the worst, and in with the sensitive, Oprah-like Bethenny whose wisdom about her childhood allows her to help all of us now heal our "noise". 

I can't believe I ever defended this flim flam ma'am.

 

@zoeysmom Do you have Amazon prime? If you do, sign in (and you can read past the shit :) 

Edited July 2, 2017 by film noire

[BBHN]

Quote

I don't think a person is required to add a bunch of caveats or disclaimers to an extremely personal story in order for it to be a legitimate description of their experience, especially when it comes to a subject as painful or (maybe) embarrassing as having a terrible relationship with one's father.  I could see summing it up in basic terms, omitting a lot of specifics, and hoping the listener would be sensitive enough to accept my telling of my own life story without demanding I elaborate on details that are obviously painful. 

So very true.

[zoeysmom]

6 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Maybe some here don't follow Kyle Richards?  I do, but had never heard this interesting revelation.  Have Kyle and Bethenny had sex with at least two other men in common (Pirate, Harry)?  Has Beth had sex with Kyle's sloppy seconds who had also had sex with another friend of K and B (Harry)?  It's not nearly as gross because hey aren't cast mates.  A comparable story to Lu's would be the revelation  that Pinky met and married Ken, who had been in the midst of dating Kyle, and had an ongoing fuckbuddy agreement with Eileen. 

As to your second paragraph, the story now is that Adam was Lu's niece's guy?  I feel sure they were broken up with the niece harboring wishes to hook back up.  Carole hit on Yolanda's husband?  I never heard about that.  Regardless, it's not an apt comparison.  Carole is not portraying herself as a respectable married woman, which was what the OP described Lu as attempting. 

Since Bethenny thinks it is so interesting that Sonja screwed and Ramona dated Tom, I just think it would be fun for Bethenny upon arriving in Mexico that the house is courtesy of her friend Kyle's husband's agency and she and Kyle screwed the same guy and met when Bethenny was working as a HOSTESS.  (Hostess would be important to make Sonja and Dorinda and their on going battle feel inclusive.)  Luann said she and the pirate didn't have sex.  I can't decide if what fascinates Bethenny is that one man would garner the attention of three RH or two RH have had sex with the same man.   

Bethenny brought up this season that Carole was not invited to Luann's wedding because Carole had screwed  Luann's niece's boyfriend.  Adam was dating Luann's niece, that is how Luann met him and decided to help him out and get him some exposure.  After Carole and Adam started dating Luann's niece and Adam went on a trip out of the country together.   David Foster and Yolanda weren't married at the time-they were a couple. 

I haven't seen Luann act as anything but a respectable woman since she married Tom.   

I just think it is time for Carole and Bethenny and the rest retire the storyline-their hands aren't exactly clean. 

[LIMOM]

15 hours ago, QuinnM said:

That was my point.  Once this was complete.  The divorce was called officially done.  Papers signed.  THen if there is a gag order it is part of the agreement.  

And I don't buy for one second that he is doing it for Bryn.  His behavior with the emails.  The content of the few emails that we've seen from the charges show this is a man bent on destroying Bethenny.  That isn't something that you would do for Bryn.  That's something you do because you want to win at all costs.  So if the divorce is over what could he possibly win now?  He's just a bully and he is mad.  He feels like she won.  So he needs to win and if Bryn is upset or unhappy well just too damn bad.  Because he wants to win.

I have to disagree here. He is a jerk but it is apparent to me that he wants a relationship with his daughter. He is doing the most to keep Bryn in his life.

B. wants him and his inconvenient family out.

I have said it before she is reliving her childhood drama.

Frankel walked away from Bethany and she wants the same for her daughter. 

Is Jason greedy? Most def. however he is fighting for his child.

B is provoking him constantly and Jason like a moron harasses her. 

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

It's truly sad they went from that (he's the one doing the heavy lifting, her feeling so supported)  -- to her calling him "white trash" & trying to get sole custody and him sending 160 emails and facing stalking charges - crazy and very sad.

Yes. And the stories keep changing, as the needs of the Bethenny brand change or evolve -- when Frankel said that her father left her life when she was four, I believed her.  I thought he left her life when she was four. Thought he was a deadbeat Dad who did a runner, leaving her with a lunatic mother & stepfather soon after. And that she'd spent years fruitlessly trying to reach out to him, only to be rebuffed. Then I found out she lived with her Dad, post divorce (when she was four or five) because her mother was so crazy. So not only did he not abandon her,  she went to live with him. And then I found out they had contact off and on through the years, and he walked her down the aisle at her first wedding -- and possibly paid for college and rent (can't find a trustworthy source for that one) -- so even though he very well might have been an emotionally unavailable  asshole who didn't give her anywhere near what she deserved and needed -- still: turns out, he didn't leave her life when she was four.  And I think she chooses to say things like that very cannily, and for maximum impact, so viewers react from the gut, not to the facts. It's manipulation under the guise of disclosure. 

I came to the conclusion that Beth was born a pessimist and since she gets so much pay off being a victim, she continues with that role.

yes, she is victimized at times.

but at this time of her life, it is her archetype and she will never change.

I had a really rough childhood to say the least, however upon meeting other people and watching Oprah one day. I have decided that my mother did the best she could and that it could have been much, much worst.

This is the problem with  Beth, move on already.

As far as the re-writing of history, I think that Beth is changing her narratives in order to understand what went down.

I can't fault her for that. Yes, it is horrendous to see loved ones being beaten up (I have been there I know) but it is 2017.

Both her stepdad and her mom at the times, did what they knew what to do. I bet Bernadette had a history of abuse as well. This does not come out of nowhere.

I was sent to camp for as long as I remember. I loved it. The fact of the matter, I was sent there because so much shit was going down. 

So what? I was at camp, at peace. 

I also think that B has a faulty memory of her youth, because of the stress that she endured.

[film noire]

Congrats on getting to the other side, LIMOM.

This is the only part of your post I sorta disagree with:

Quote

As far as the re-writing of history, I think that Beth is changing her narratives in order to understand what went down.

I think she's changing narratives in order to control, not understand;  I think that's why she's switched back to "Nobody has it harder than me" (from the 2011 Oprah "Place of Yes" self) because -- during the last few years of pain & crisis -- that's the story that gives her the most control & the cleanest hands (b/c if you're always the victim, you're never responsible for hurting anybody).

Edited July 2, 2017 by film noire

[BBHN]

Quote

This is the problem with  Beth, move on already.

Maybe she and Tinsley can form a "Move On Already" group once the trial for Jason's stalking and harassment is over...

[LIMOM]

4 hours ago, film noire said:

Congrats on getting to the other side, LIMOM.

This is the only part of your post I sorta disagree with:

I think she's changing narratives in order to control, not understand;  I think that's why she's switched back to "Nobody has it harder than me" (from the 2011 Oprah "Place of Yes" self) because -- during the last few years of pain & crisis -- that's the story that gives her the most control & the cleanest hands (b/c if you're always the victim, you're never responsible for hurting anybody).

Thanks. I guess.

yes, that is a valid point.

as she had no control as a kid, she is now super controlling. That makes sense.

She has to know intellectually that she has hurt Jason.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Quote

Yes. And the stories keep changing, as the needs of the Bethenny brand change or evolve -- when Frankel said that her father left her life when she was four, I believed her.  I thought he left her life when she was four. Thought he was a deadbeat Dad who did a runner, leaving her with a lunatic mother & stepfather soon after. And that she'd spent years fruitlessly trying to reach out to him, only to be rebuffed. Then I found out she lived with her Dad, post divorce (when she was four or five) because her mother was so crazy. So not only did he not abandon her,  she went to live with him. And then I found out they had contact off and on through the years, and he walked her down the aisle at her first wedding -- and possibly paid for college and rent (can't find a trustworthy source for that one) -- so even though he very well might have been an emotionally unavailable  asshole who didn't give her anywhere near what she deserved and needed -- still: turns out, he didn't leave her life when she was four.  

I can see why Bethenny feels she was left by her father at age four.  He moved thousands of miles away leaving her in the care of a troubled woman he had a terrible relationship with, a woman who according to even Jason did her best to come between Beth and her dad. I doubt Jason would make reference to her parents in that way if he didn't view Bethenny as being estranged from her father to some extent, suggesting he would never allow such a thing to happen to him.  

I personally don't think a child need experience a total 100% absence of a parent from their life in order to feel that they have been "left."  Even having an "on and off" contact can leave a child feeling abandoned by a parent.  Especially when they leave you in the care of woman who is unstable and has a violent relationship with her new husband.  I think that really magnifies the feelings of having been left behind. 

 

5 hours ago, LIMOM said:

as she had no control as a kid, she is now super controlling. That makes sense.

That is classic adult child of an alcoholic behavior.  Look at this list of behaviors I found online ... it's shocking how many of them apply to Bethenny:
 

Quote

 

The Other Laundry List

To cover our fear of people and our dread of isolation we tragically become the very authority figures who frighten others and cause them to withdraw.

To avoid becoming enmeshed and entangled with other people and losing ourselves in the process, we become rigidly self-sufficient. We disdain the approval of others.

We frighten people with our anger and threat of belittling criticism.

We dominate others and abandon them before they can abandon us or we avoid relationships with dependent people altogether. To avoid being hurt, we isolate and dissociate and thereby abandon ourselves.

We live life from the standpoint of a victimizer, and are attracted to people we can manipulate and control in our important relationships.

We are irresponsible and self-centered. Our inflated sense of self-worth and self-importance prevents us from seeing our deficiencies and shortcomings.

We make others feel guilty when they attempt to assert themselves.

We inhibit our fear by staying deadened and numb.

We hate people who “play” the victim and beg to be rescued.

We deny that we’ve been hurt and are suppressing our emotions by the dramatic expression of “pseudo” feelings.

To protect ourselves from self punishment for failing to “save” the family we project our self-hate onto others and punish them instead.

We “manage” the massive amount of deprivation we feel, coming from abandonment within the home, by quickly letting go of relationships that threaten our “independence” (not too close).

We refuse to admit we’ve been affected by family dysfunction or that there was dysfunction in the home or that we have internalized any of the family’s destructive attitudes and behaviors.

We act as if we are nothing like the dependent people who raised us.

 

 

 

I would highlight the ones I think are most obvious, but since that would be like half the list I will highlight just the one that I think may explain Beth's reaction to Tinsley.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[KungFuBunny]

9 hours ago, BBHN said:

Maybe she and Tinsley can form a "Move On Already" group once the trial for Jason's stalking and harassment is over...

Nope nope...Tinsley will freak out at the word.

[film noire]

7 hours ago, LIMOM said:

She has to know intellectually that she has hurt Jason.

I think she might know it intellectually,  and then converts that into one emotional justification after another (he hurt me worse, I only threw water on him to make him leave for Bryn's sake, he's the crazy one, his family is sick and creepy, I don't want that white trash energy near Bryn  -- so I need sole custody,  it's best she be in my care, not both of ours -- I'm her mother, I can give her what she needs most, etc, etc).  I'm sure she feels the marriage failed because of him alone, not them together -- or maybe she had a tiny bit to do with it, but it's all him, really -- he alone is the toxic one, not her at all (eta: as to the marriage/mutual infliction of pain, not him possibly stalking her.)

2 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I can see why Bethenny feels she was left by her father at age four.  He moved thousands of miles away leaving her in the care of a troubled woman he had a terrible relationship with

Actually, he took Bethenny with him when he moved to Los Angeles & she lived with him for about a year or so (until Bernadette demanded she be returned). That strikes me as an unusual move for a father in 1974 - most men weren't trying to do the single dad thing (however badly he may have done it) - so he wasn't a deadbeat Dad who walked away, he was a man who tried to give his kid a home in the face of his ex wife's craziness. He may have failed (or even failed miserably) but he tried. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by film noire

[film noire]

22 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 I think it is not landing because the way you re-wrote Bethenny's statement 

To be clear, Bethenny never said that -- I wrote it as an example of how Bethenny could include the truth of her relationship with her father (facts) while still also making it clear she felt estranged (her reaction/perception of those facts/how they shaped her).

Edited July 2, 2017 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

Quote

 

To be clear, Bethenny never said that -- I wrote it as an example of how Bethenny could include the truth of her relationship with her father (facts) while still also making it clear she felt estranged (her reaction/perception of those facts/how they shaped her).

 

Oh, no I understood that Bethenny never actually said that, LOL.  

My point was that if the statements she has actually made about being estranged from her father (or having no parents) are examples of Bethenny's chronic use of "hyperbole, exaggeration, or a flight of fancy, (with) the purpose ... to mislead, not to clarify" as you describe her, I don't understand why what she said would somehow all be made okay if she merely added some language about how having Bobby walk her down the aisle "didn't help" things.  It wouldn't change the intentionally misleading, manipulative nature of her original claim, would it? 

I guess I just don't see how adding in some random fact about something she did do with her father would serve to legitimize her basic point, which was about all the things she didn't do with him.  It seems like a hollow requirement that would in no way offset the total lie she is being accused of telling.  

 

On 7/1/2017 at 4:39 PM, RedheadZombie said:

Maybe some here don't follow Kyle Richards?  I do, but had never heard this interesting revelation.  Have Kyle and Bethenny had sex with at least two other men in common (Pirate, Harry)?  Has Beth had sex with Kyle's sloppy seconds who had also had sex with another friend of K and B (Harry)?  It's not nearly as gross because hey aren't cast mates.  A comparable story to Lu's would be the revelation  that Pinky met and married Ken, who had been in the midst of dating Kyle, and had an ongoing fuckbuddy agreement with Eileen. 

I am so completely lost right now. Pinky?  Pinky who?  Pinky Tuscadero?  

[RedheadZombie]

17 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Oh, no I understood that Bethenny never actually said that, LOL.  

My point was that if the statements she has actually made about being estranged from her father (or having no parents) are examples of Bethenny's chronic use of "hyperbole, exaggeration, or a flight of fancy, (with) the purpose ... to mislead, not to clarify" as you describe her, I don't understand why what she said would somehow all be made okay if she merely added some language about how having Bobby walk her down the aisle "didn't help" things.  It wouldn't change the intentionally misleading, manipulative nature of her original claim, would it? 

I guess I just don't see how adding in some random fact about something she did do with her father would serve to legitimize her basic point, which was about all the things she didn't do with him.  It seems like a hollow requirement that would in no way offset the total lie she is being accused of telling.  

 

I am so completely lost right now. Pinky?  Pinky who?  Pinky Tuscadero?  

Ha!  So sorry. It's self-appointed Queen-bee LVP from BH. 

[Jel]

Erm, rightfully self-appointed! ;)

(That one's for you, MCM! ;)

[zoeysmom]

Five year old article about the miracle of using My Family Wizard in contentious custody cases.   http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/fashion/joint-custody-from-a-distance.html  I noticed for those who watch Southern Charm, Kathryn and Thomas are required by agreement to use Wizard in regards to their communication about the minor children. 

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, Jel said:

Erm, rightfully self-appointed! ;)

(That one's for you, MCM! ;)

Yes, rightfully self-appointed. I will give this to you because I love you. And your country. Happy 150th to Canada (well, a few days late, but...I've been busy over here doing other important stuff, like trying to solve the Beth/Jason divorce dilemma). I think I have almost got it all figured out. 

[film noire]

3 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I guess I just don't see how adding in some random fact about something she did do with her father would serve to legitimize her basic point, which was about all the things she didn't do with him.  

Because when you only list what he didn't do, people believe he did nothing.

A man who walks away without looking over his shoulder ("he left my life at the age of four" -- whether that's literal or emotional)  is a very different beast (or wolf!) than one who (seeing the crazy in his ex wife) takes his daughter with him when he moves and tries, however badly, stupidly, selfishly, miserably  (or whatever adjective you want) to give her a home. The man who sends a plane ticket for his daughter to come visit, who pays for her education and rent (if that's true) and walks her down the aisle is not the same thing as a man who just walks away.  Duplicity exists as much in what you don't say, as what you do.

And she could have given all the facts and STILL honoured her truth and perspective on her past by making it very clear it wasn't enough - that he should have known better, done better, that his attempts were nowhere near what every child is owed by a decent parent -- so no parades for him, fuck him to hell and back, if that's how she feels. But if you leave key facts out of your story - while telling me you're all truth, no filters, no lies -- if you paint somebody even worse than they were,  I am going to start wondering what else you've edited down for maximum effect. And it turns out, she's done a lot of editing in lots of areas of her life.  Which is why I find her duplicitous, not just hyperbolic. Which is why I think she is a liar,  not just an exaggerator. Which is why I stopped defending her, and started paying attention to all the manipulation.

Edited July 3, 2017 by film noire

[film noire]

Quote

Happy 150th to Canada

We may be 150, but -- thanks to all the Frenchwomen in Quebec -- we look 125 ;)

Edited July 3, 2017 by film noire

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Five year old article about the miracle of using My Family Wizard in contentious custody cases.   http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/fashion/joint-custody-from-a-distance.html  I noticed for those who watch Southern Charm, Kathryn and Thomas are required by agreement to use Wizard in regards to their communication about the minor children. 

This sounds like it could be helpful in some cases. My cousin did this exact strategy and her ex relentlessly hounded her through text and email. And though she was cautious to have the exchanges at a police station, the police really aren't paying attention. He would low voice talk to her for 30-45 mins trying to manipulate her before he'd finally "let" her go. 

I don't see how this would help with the current Beth/Jason situation. His arrest didn't happen during an attempt to set up a schedule.  It didn't even happen at a hand off. 

[film noire]

8 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

He would low voice talk to her for 30-45 mins trying to manipulate her before he'd finally "let" her go. 

not enough ear bleach in the world -- what a skin crawling thing to do. 

[zoeysmom]

16 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

This sounds like it could be helpful in some cases. My cousin did this exact strategy and her ex relentlessly hounded her through text and email. And though she was cautious to have the exchanges at a police station, the police really aren't paying attention. He would low voice talk to her for 30-45 mins trying to manipulate her before he'd finally "let" her go. 

I don't see how this would help with the current Beth/Jason situation. His arrest didn't happen during an attempt to set up a schedule.  It didn't even happen at a hand off. 

I thought the idea behind the harassment complaints was that Jason sent her tons of unnecessary e-mails and they contained unpleasantries.  This would put an attorney in place that would deem necessary, unnecessary e-mails.  It also has a timeliness feature so both parties are required to respond at once.   Kind of third party to weigh in as to the content and prevents the-he/she didn't answer my e-mail.

It might not prevent all situations but with the third party in place there would be no C&D letters. 

Did anyone notice that when Bryn called Bethenny, Bethenny it sounded as if she said hello to Tina?  Maybe a friend of Bryn's or a nanny?  Jason would have been arrested by the time they were in Vermont.

[Celia Rubenstein]

40 minutes ago, film noire said:

Because when you only list what he didn't do, people believe he did nothing.

I don't recall Bethenny so much listing the things her father didn't do as much as just making some broad general statements about how she felt about their relationship.  That certainly never lead me to believe her father did nothing.

I think the problem may be that some people have a different definition of the language she uses.  To some, the word "estrangement" means 100% no contact, turning your back on someone and never seeing or speaking to them again.  Learning he paid for her schooling and walked her down the aisle is seen as some kind of complete contradiction to the idea that they were estranged and makes it all a lie.  Similarly, some take her saying she had no parents to mean she was was a true orphan and they are appalled to learn her parents were still alive.  Or, lord help me, her saying she was raised by wolves is taken by some to literally mean she is claiming she was actually physically reared by a roving pack of wild animals in the woods. 

But when I hear Bethenny say things like that, I think she means that she felt unwanted and unimportant to her father.  And I can see how she feels that way.  Bobby Frankel may well have taken Bethenny with him when he left Bernadette, but he didn't built a home around her and her needs as a four year old.  He took her to restaurants late at night and had her hanging out at the racetrack.  There were drugs and women around.  She ended up being sent back to her unstable mother because she didn't fit into his lifestyle.  They went on to have a relationship punctuated by hard feelings and periods of no contact, things reaching such a point of animosity that he refused to see her when he was on his deathbed until the last minute.  Among his last words to her were that he felt he had a "full life," this although he had such an awful relationship with his daughter.  I can't think of a more powerful way to tell someone they didn't matter to you. 

He may have paid the bills and showed up for her wedding, but in the grand scheme of things, I think those mean far less than being a constant loving presence in your daughter's life.  I think that is why Bethenny doesn't bother to mention it. 

[diadochokinesis]

14 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I thought the idea behind the harassment complaints was that Jason sent her tons of unnecessary e-mails and they contained unpleasantries.  This would put an attorney in place that would deem necessary, unnecessary e-mails.  It also has a timeliness feature so both parties are required to respond at once.   Kind of third party to weigh in as to the content and prevents the-he/she didn't answer my e-mail.

It might not prevent all situations but with the third party in place there would be no C&D letters. 

Did anyone notice that when Bryn called Bethenny, Bethenny it sounded as if she said hello to Tina?  Maybe a friend of Bryn's or a nanny?  Jason would have been arrested by the time they were in Vermont.

 

She said, "Hello Peanut!"

[RedheadZombie]

28 minutes ago, film noire said:

not enough ear bleach in the world -- what a skin crawling thing to do. 

Yep. This after he made her get a gun, became physically violent enough that she pulled the gun to keep him from getting the phone away, manipulated the cops such that they took HER to jail, talked her into not waking the kids up and traumatizing them when I bailed her out three days later (I'll drop them off at school just pick them up).   Best part - I went with her that next day to pick up the kids. They made her go in.  She came out later sobbing hysterically with a temporary restraining order in her hand.  He'd manipulated the whole thing to get the upper hand. He never even spent time with the kids when he lived with them.   It lasted less than a week and a judge terminated the order.  She has the kids 98% of the time now. 

[zoeysmom]

4 minutes ago, diadochokinesis said:

She said, "Hello Peanut!"

Oh okay-that makes sense.  Thanks.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 Learning he paid for her schooling and walked her down the aisle is seen as some kind of complete contradiction to the idea that they were estranged and makes it all a lie. 

I have no doubt she felt estranged;  I doubt the facts as presented (or more exactly, not presented) by her.

I also have no idea if he felt estranged -- no friends or family are talking on his side -- he could have not given a shit,  he could have loved her and shoved it all down,  he could have contacted her repeatedly and Bernadette came between them without either of them ever knowing,  or he could have been a cold-hearted bastard who felt completely estranged from her -- I don't have a clue what he felt.

Quote

 Bobby Frankel may well have taken Bethenny with him when he left Bernadette, but he didn't built a home around her and her needs as a four year old. 

Yes, as I said, he did it badly, stupidly, selfishly, cluelessly -- insert any adjective you care to insert  - but he did it.  

And my problem is not with her feeling her father was not emotionally available, or that  Bobby Frankel was not focusing on her needs enough, or he was too caught up in his career -- again,  insert *any qualifier you care to place around any of these facts* -- all of her feelings are valid and justified and scream on;, Bethenny, scream on;  my issue is that the very thing that caused these reactions -- living with her father for a year -- was omitted from her narrative (until it was time to rebrand with all that Place of Yes "heal your noise" Oprah-lite bullshit). I have a problem with truthiness, and she has that in spades.

Edited July 3, 2017 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

11 minutes ago, film noire said:

my issue is that the very thing that caused these reactions -- living with her father for a year -- was omitted from her narrative (until it was time to rebrand with all that Place of Yes "heal your noise" Oprah-lite bullshit). I have a problem with truthiness, and she has that in spades.

Did Bethenny omit it from her narrative or did Bravo?  Because for the first few years in question the network was the one in charge of what her narrative was.  And they were obviously in love with the whole orphan-raised-by-wolves angle because they worked the hell out of it. So we don't know for sure what all Bethenny said - or didn't say - about her father.  I wouldn't be surprised if more charitable descriptions of Bobby Frankel ended up on the cutting room floor because they didn't fit with the story they wanted to sell.  

Her Place of Yes book was published in December, 2011.  This was her first autobiographical-type book and (if I understand you correctly) it apparently included the kind of facts (like that she had lived with her father) which she had supposedly left out of her story on purpose before.

But published just short of four years after she arrive on the scene, and a mere fifteen months after she left the group show and got the chance to tell her own story in her own words, it doesn't seem to me like Bethenny wasted much time before trying to set the record straight by telling the whole story about her father as soon as she got the chance to do so. 

I just don't think this timeline supports the assertion that Bethenny purposefully engaged in some kind of conscious plot to mislead people about her relationship with her father by supposedly concealing the fact that she lived with him for a year as a child. 

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Did Bethenny omit it from her narrative or did Bravo?  Because for the first few years in question the network was the one in charge of what her narrative was.  And they were obviously in love with the whole orphan-raised-by-wolves angle because they worked the hell out of it. So we don't know for sure what all Bethenny said - or didn't say - about her father.  I wouldn't be surprised if more charitable descriptions of Bobby Frankel ended up on the cutting room floor because they didn't fit with the story they wanted to sell.  

Her Place of Yes book was published in December, 2011.  This was her first autobiographical-type book and (if I understand you correctly) it apparently included the kind of facts (like that she had lived with her father) which she had supposedly left out of her story on purpose before.

But published just short of four years after she arrive on the scene, and a mere fifteen months after she left the group show and got the chance to tell her own story in her own words, it doesn't seem to me like Bethenny wasted much time before trying to set the record straight by telling the whole story about her father as soon as she got the chance to do so. 

I just don't think this timeline supports the assertion that Bethenny purposefully engaged in some kind of conscious plot to mislead people about her relationship with her father by supposedly concealing the fact that she lived with him for a year as a child. 

I don't think they edited out anything she said about her parents, Jill made the comment that she/Bobby were surprised that Bethenny's parents were still alive. I think Bethenny learned to go for viewer sympathy when she was on the MS show and ran with it on the HW show/her own spin off shows. Do I think her childhood was messy/tough, Yes, but I also think she has (greatly) exaggerated it for effect, which is why her father initially didn't want to see her when he was dying and why her mom speaks out like she does. 

I had so hoped that having her own daughter would make her realize that parents make mistakes, even big ones, but that you learn to move past them, to forgive them, if only so that you are able to be a better parent yourself but so far, she is still stuck in hate/blame/anger.

[film noire]

3 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Because for the first few years in question the network was the one in charge of what her narrative was.

But Frankel had a public presence before Bravo. She arrived on the scene (or at least my scene) with the Stewart version of "The Apprentice", back in '05. (One of the "scandals" of the season was that Bethenny had dated the son of one of Martha's judges, Charles Koppelman, the chairman of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, and also lived with Koppelman's daughter in Paris. The impression given was that Frankel hung with a high end crowd. The only reason I started watching the Housewives - where that whole high end thing was semi erased -- was b/c I remembered Frankel from The Apprentice). So she's been in charge of her media image going back before RHONY -- she did interviews for TA before it aired ("I want to be the Martha Stewart of the health-food industry — without the jail" ) and had her celeb clients talk her up in the media.

I think it's fair to say she's not a naif when it comes to her public image, the press, and how information shapes all of that. ("The Apprentice" aside, anybody who worked on a tv show -- even as a lower level production assistant -- or tried the actress thing in LA knows that side of the business). As to the rest (if I read you right) you believe events beyond her control (her edit on the show) were the cause of her not giving the facts up front, but Bravo didn't own her mouth when it came to talking to the media, and - as Frankel herself  says -- blaming the editors is cowardly; so this one time, maybe I'll take her at her word :)

Edited July 3, 2017 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

57 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I don't think they edited out anything she said about her parents, Jill made the comment that she/Bobby were surprised that Bethenny's parents were still alive.

Jill Zarin, lol.  

If a tree falls in the woods and Jill Zarin is not there to hear it, does it really make a sound? LOL I'm sure she thinks it doesn't.

Seriously, just because Jill Zarin didn't hear someone say something doesn't mean they didn't say it.

 

33 minutes ago, film noire said:

Also -- as Frankel herself  says -- blaming the editors is cowardly; so this one time, maybe I'll take her at her word :)

I think the idea of it being cowardly to blame editing has more to do with how some people refuse to own the things they were shown doing or saying, the idea being that Bravo can't put words in a person's mouth.  

I never took it to mean that a housewife was not entitled to be bothered that Bravo left certain things they said out, especially when it was designed to cast them in an unfair negative light.  

 

Quote

 

But Frankel had a public presence before Bravo. She arrived on the scene (or at least my scene) with the Stewart version of "The Apprentice", back in '05. (One of the "scandals" of the season was that Bethenny had dated the son of one of Martha's judges, Charles Koppelman, the chairman of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, and also lived with Koppelman's daughter in Paris. The impression given was that Frankel hung with a high end crowd. The only reason I started watching the Housewives was b/c of Frankel on The Apprentice). So she's been in charge of her media image going back before RHONY -- she did interviews for TA before it aired ("I want to be the Martha Stewart of the health-food industry — without the jail" ) and had her celeb clients talk her up in the media.

I think it's fair to say she's not a naif when it comes to her public image, the press, and how information shapes all of that. ("The Apprentice" aside, anybody who worked on a tv show -- even as a lower level production assistant -- or tried the actress thing in LA knows that side of the business). As to the rest (if I read you right) you believe events beyond her control (her edit on the show) were the cause of her not giving the facts up front, but Bravo didn't own her mouth when it came to talking to the media , and her savvy makes it clear she knows how to work an image.  

 

She may not have been a total naif, but I think you are overestimating Bethenny's clout in terms of directing her own coverage early on.  I would not describe her as "in charge" of her media image as far back as you believe she was.  She was just some random reality competition show contestant, not a superstar who can dictate the terms of an interview or demand editorial control. 

I think that Bethenny today has the experience and ability to control her image, but back to the time you are referring to - not so much.  

Edited July 3, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[film noire]

12 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 not a superstar who can dictate the terms of an interview or demand editorial control. 

 

I didn't say she was a superstar. I said she knew how to work the media, having been through an attempted acting career, a stint as a production assistant and a successful audition /interview process for "The Apprentice" (during which she made sure she provided flashy quotes to the media - Martha minus the jail -- provided great drama for the camera, had a couple of celebs talking her up as the winner, and handled herself pretty well, despite being bristly at times). But say I'm wrong, and  "The Apprentice" --  a big splashy network show, with millions of viewers (despite bad reviews) -- was her learning curve. In that case, she knew her way around the block her very first day on RHONY - so I'm pretty sure the editing of facts was self-editing, not a Bravo trick pulled off under her very nose.

[BBHN]

Quote

I think the idea of it being cowardly to blame editing has more to do with how some people refuse to own the things they were shown doing or saying, the idea being that Bravo can't put words in a person's mouth.  

I never took it to mean that a housewife was not entitled to be bothered that Bravo left certain things they said out, especially when it was designed to cast them in an unfair negative light.  

Bingo.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Jill made the comment that she/Bobby were surprised that Bethenny's parents were still alive.

Yes and Jill Zarin has never made a self serving remark or out right lied in order to gain sympathy for herself, and attention, right? ;)

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

 I'm pretty sure the editing of facts was self-editing, not a Bravo trick pulled off under her very nose.

It wouldn't require Bravo to pull off any kind of trick. These housewives all sign contracts that explicitly allow for Bravo to edit their scenes any way they want to and they waive their right to recourse for slander or portrayal in a false light.  

Bethenny had no control over the editing process at all.  There is no way to know what she might have said about her father that never made it to air.

[film noire]

27 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Bethenny had no control over the editing process at all.  There is no way to know what she might have said about her father that never made it to air.

No there isn't -- which is why I'm left wondering why you picked it as a defense of her duplicity ;)  -- and (again) I'm not saying she had control over the editing process for Bravo, or that she was a superstar with final cut. I'm rebutting the idea that -- even if Bravo edited out comments about living with her -- she was too much of a naif to get the truth out by other media means. Bravo was not her only public venue between 2005 and 2011.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

I'm rebutting the idea that -- even if Bravo edited out comments about living with her -- she was too much of a naif to get the truth out by other media means.

What were her public venues in 2005 that... really would have cared? Over what's really a very very minor point? I mean she was estranged from her father and rarely saw him while growing up. Does that she lived with her dad for a year when she was four or five before he handed her back to her emotionally troubled mom really change the story so significantly that it changes everything?

I'm going to be honest - it doesn't change my belief she had awful parents at all. It kinda makes it worse because her dad took her with him and then rejected her, or got bored or got tired of parenting, and dumped her back after a year.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Yes and Jill Zarin has never made a self serving remark or out right lied in order to gain sympathy for herself, and attention, right? ;)

  Jill doesn't lie or make self serving remarks anymore than Bethenny does, in fact, probably less than Bethenny in the last few years. On the other hand, Bethenny's tall tales continue to grow by leaps and bounds IMO.

11 minutes ago, film noire said:

No there isn't -- which is why I'm left wondering why you picked it as a defense of her duplicity ;)  -- and (again) I'm not saying she had control over the editing process for Bravo, or that she was a superstar with final cut. I'm rebutting the idea that -- even if Bravo edited out comments about living with her -- she was too much of a naif to get the truth out by other media means. Bravo was not her only public venue between 2005 and 2011.

Sorry, FN, we just don't get/understand Bethenny. She is the only HW allowed to play fast and loose with the truth and not get called out on it like the others are on a regular basis. As we all know, Bethenny never gave any interviews where she could correct the lie Bravo was selling us about her parents during her years on the HW show or her spin off shows. And she most certainly could not correct these stories when she had her own talk show or on her radio show. Poor Bethenny, she has never been given the opportunity to tell the truth.  LOL

Edited July 4, 2017 by WireWrap

[Celia Rubenstein]

Quote

 There is no way to know what she might have said about her father that never made it to air.

 

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No there isn't -- which is why I'm left wondering why you picked it as a defense of her duplicity ;) 

I am simply using the same reasoning that is used to explain, excuse and defend her ex-husband ...  we don't know everything, so it's not fair to assume the worst.   Is it not okay to give Bethenny the same kind of benefit of the doubt Jason constantly receives? 

 

34 minutes ago, film noire said:

I'm not saying she had control over the editing process for Bravo, or that she was a superstar with final cut. I'm rebutting the idea that -- even if Bravo edited out comments about living with her -- she was too much of a naif to get the truth out by other media means. Bravo was not her only public venue between 2005 and 2011.

I think that you may be projecting the frustration you feel about this onto Bethenny and assuming she was similarly frustrated that this particular nugget of information re: her living with her father wasn't made front page news.  I think she had a lot more important things going on (like her burgeoning tv career, starting a multi-million dollar business, getting married, having a baby etc etc) to make publicizing this factoid the focus of her energies.   As far as I am concerned, she did it in her first personal book in 2011, four years into being a Real Housewife, and that is soon enough for me.  You disagree.  I'm okay with that.  I hope you can accept that I feel differently. 

 

10 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

 Sorry, FN, we just don't get/understand Bethenny. She is the only HW allowed to play fast and loose with the truth and not get called out on it like the others are on a regular basis. 

Bethenny isn't called out for playing fast and lose with the truth? ??? ????  

 

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As we all know, Bethenny never gave any interviews where she could correct the lie Bravo was selling us about her parents during her years on the HW show or her spin off shows. And she most certainly could not correct these stories when she had her own talk show or on her radio show. Poor Bethenny, she has never been given the opportunity to tell the truth.  LOL

But she did "correct the lie Bravo was selling us about her parents" in 2011 when she wrote her book, four years into being a Real Housewife.  

I feel like I am repeating myself here .... am I typing in invisible ink or something?  :P