nobody30 April 7, 2015 Share April 7, 2015 This is what happens when you not only drag a series on longer than it should've been and then forcing in a plot twist like David Clarke to try and prolong something that shouldn't have happened. 1 season later and it's more conclusive than ever and yet they're still dragging things out. I would hate for another forced cliffhanger plot twist, especially after wasting time on David Clarke and that went nowhere fast. The Maclolm Black and Natalie thing went nowhere. He's just another character dangling out there with nothing better to do. After Emily went back to being Amanda and exposing her secrets to the public, there's really nothing important they could do. I've seen plenty of tired and exhausted series before, but this one takes the cake, it's like a never ending after credits sequence that has multiple endings but still keeps going long after it should've ended. I think you are only partly right, because in my opinion Revenge suffers from bad and uninspired writing. It has nothing to do with plot twists like David Clarke being alive, it has to do with how they are executed, in the case of David Clarke it was a desaster. What you are saying goes for 90% of TV shows in their senior seasons, there are only a handfull objections, like Breaking Bad. The Walking Dead gets praised a lot for example, but from that point of view it's no different than Revenge. The main problem with revenge was always the lack of an "expiration date", if you have that it doesn't matter how many twists and turns you make on the way, as long as they are well written, and you always keep in mind how the show and their characters will end up. 3 Link to comment
Free April 8, 2015 Share April 8, 2015 I think you are only partly right, because in my opinion Revenge suffers from bad and uninspired writing. It has nothing to do with plot twists like David Clarke being alive, it has to do with how they are executed, in the case of David Clarke it was a desaster. What you are saying goes for 90% of TV shows in their senior seasons, there are only a handfull objections, like Breaking Bad. The Walking Dead gets praised a lot for example, but from that point of view it's no different than Revenge. The main problem with revenge was always the lack of an "expiration date", if you have that it doesn't matter how many twists and turns you make on the way, as long as they are well written, and you always keep in mind how the show and their characters will end up. It's not just that the plot twist was the problem, it's how desperate it came off to try to drag this series out for at least another season. David Clarke was the main motivator/catalyst of Emily's revenge and the writers completely threw that out of the window. It's terrible because it's a plot twist that did more damage than any good to the series, in the end, David's character didn't even amount to much, he was wasted on pointless subplots that went nowhere like the Malcolm Black nonsense. 1 Link to comment
GaT April 8, 2015 Share April 8, 2015 It's not just that the plot twist was the problem, it's how desperate it came off to try to drag this series out for at least another season. David Clarke was the main motivator/catalyst of Emily's revenge and the writers completely threw that out of the window. It's terrible because it's a plot twist that did more damage than any good to the series, in the end, David's character didn't even amount to much, he was wasted on pointless subplots that went nowhere like the Malcolm Black nonsense. What's worse IMO is that original showrunner Mike Kelley promised Emily that David would never come back from the dead, so the new guy was the one who really screwed that up. But Mike was responsible for season 2, so he's not blameless. 1 Link to comment
Free April 8, 2015 Share April 8, 2015 What's worse IMO is that original showrunner Mike Kelley promised Emily that David would never come back from the dead, so the new guy was the one who really screwed that up. But Mike was responsible for season 2, so he's not blameless. He at least admitted his mistakes which is more than what I can say about the other writers who were also responsible, but this is why I don't put too much stock into writers claiming they have a plan spanning seasons if they aren't there to see it through, otherwise, it's very obvious they're winging it. Link to comment
nobody30 April 10, 2015 Share April 10, 2015 The title of the last episode of season 4 (4x23) will be "Two Graves". Considering the Confucius quote from the pilot, "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves", it very much looks like this will be the series finale. So be prepared... :) 1 Link to comment
alias1 April 10, 2015 Share April 10, 2015 (edited) The title of the last episode of season 4 (4x23) will be "Two Graves". Considering the Confucius quote from the pilot, "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves", it very much looks like this will be the series finale. So be prepared... :) Well, that would be fitting. But I'm holding out hope that the two graves will be David and Victoria. As Stevie said to David, "you started this by sleeping with another man's wife." And Victoria then betrayed him. So in my mind they are the two people responsible for setting everything in motion that transpired afterward. Edited April 10, 2015 by SierraMist 4 Link to comment
Free April 10, 2015 Share April 10, 2015 The title of the last episode of season 4 (4x23) will be "Two Graves". Considering the Confucius quote from the pilot, "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves", it very much looks like this will be the series finale. So be prepared... :) I hope it is, it's a great finale title to end the series on and to bring this series full circle from the opening quote in the pilot. 1 Link to comment
Melvinvdriet April 14, 2015 Share April 14, 2015 Ok. Crazy theory here: What if Victoria dies in the explosion/fire at Grayson Manor next episode. She commits suicide to frame Emily for her murder. She planned everything in detail to frame her. That also explains why the description for ep. 21 says: Emily's friends worrie she might have gone to far. The writers already told us some crazy twists will happen in 'Burn'. Oh and the 'Two Graves' in the finale can be for Margaux and Louise ;-) 1 Link to comment
nobody30 April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 Ok. Crazy theory here: What if Victoria dies in the explosion/fire at Grayson Manor next episode. She commits suicide to frame Emily for her murder. She planned everything in detail to frame her. That also explains why the description for ep. 21 says: Emily's friends worrie she might have gone to far. The writers already told us some crazy twists will happen in 'Burn'. Oh and the 'Two Graves' in the finale can be for Margaux and Louise ;-) It's not crazy at all, I think you are on to something. But my guess is that Victoria will only stage her death to get Emily arrested (like Emily tried with her in season 3), and it will work. Link to comment
Melvinvdriet April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 Thats also possible! But no one would expect victoria to die with yet 3 episodes to go! That would be a twist!! Its killing me, this waiting! Link to comment
DesertCyclist April 16, 2015 Share April 16, 2015 "First dig two graves." The *most* fitting two graves, in my opinion, would be Victoria and David, as their affair put everything in motion. In that way, Emily gets her revenge but also suffers loss. 3 Link to comment
Dirtybubble April 16, 2015 Share April 16, 2015 So it looks like Mason Treadwell will be returning YES!! but not until the 4-26 episode which is 2 Sundays away. Sooo IDK maybe Lydia comes back for 1 episode and then Mason for the next *shrug* http://www.ibtimes.com/revenge-season-4-spoilers-episode-21-promo-photos-reveal-mason-treadwells-return-see-1881842 Link to comment
nobody30 April 17, 2015 Share April 17, 2015 Synopsis for episode 21: "Aftermath" - As Emily sifts through the wreckage of her life, even her closest friends worry she has finally gone too far, on "Revenge". Guest starring Roger Bart as Mason Treadwell, Gail O'Grady as Stevie Grayson. Synopsis for episode 22: “Plea” – Emily enlists Nolan and Jack to help prove her innocence while Ben takes measures to keep her locked up, on “Revenge”. Guest starring Christa B. Allen as Charlotte Clarke, Courtney Love as White Gold, Roger Bart as Mason Treadwell. Synopsis for the last episode (ep. 23) : Revenge – SEASON FINALE -- “Two Graves” – Backed into a corner, Emily is forced to admit her guilt, but she'll have to decide how far she'll go before admitting defeat, on the season finale of “Revenge”. Mason and Charlotte will be back. And besides that it's not looking good for Emily. ^^ 1 Link to comment
Dirtybubble April 17, 2015 Share April 17, 2015 Well this sounds like a SERIES finale even though write ups keep saying it's a SEASON finale....*shrug* 1 Link to comment
DB in CMH April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 I wish ABC would just shit of get off the pot. In their May preview press release, they posted the finale as for the season. 1 Link to comment
ParadoxLost April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 I'm assuming that one of the graves is Emily and she fakes her death to escape whatever she's accused of. 2 Link to comment
Bort April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 Networks do that all the time. I remember several shows in the past few years that were already canceled and being burned off and their networks were still calling them season finales. Link to comment
alias1 April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 I'm assuming that one of the graves is Emily and she fakes her death to escape whatever she's accused of. Oh, good one! 1 Link to comment
Free April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 Well this sounds like a SERIES finale even though write ups keep saying it's a SEASON finale....*shrug* Unforunately, they do that with most of their shows, even if the choice is obvious. 1 Link to comment
Melvinvdriet April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Ok. Crazy theory here: What if Victoria dies in the explosion/fire at Grayson Manor next episode. She commits suicide to frame Emily for her murder. She planned everything in detail to frame her. That also explains why the description for ep. 21 says: Emily's friends worrie she might have gone to far. The writers already told us some crazy twists will happen in 'Burn'. Oh and the 'Two Graves' in the finale can be for Margaux and Louise ;-) So I was right. Link to comment
Bort April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 So I was right. I think it's still too soon to call. Link to comment
Melvinvdriet April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I think it's pretty safe to say the Queen is dead. :) Link to comment
Bort April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I think it's pretty safe to say the Queen is dead. :) I don't. I need to see a body and then have the show end and be off the schedule before I believe it. Years of watching soap operas have made me very skeptical. Link to comment
alias1 April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) So I was right. I think you were pretty spot on, except for the two graves being Margaux and Louise. Looks like one of them will be Victoria. And I like Paradox's theory that the other grave will be Emily, who faked her death. I do want to see Emily and Nolan on a beach at the end. I don't even care who is with them (Jack, Tony, David, Stevie?). Edited April 20, 2015 by SierraMist 1 Link to comment
GaT April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 IMDB lists Madeline Stowe as being in every episode remaining this season, I don't think Victoria is dead. Link to comment
Melvinvdriet April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 IMDB lists Madeline Stowe as being in every episode remaining this season, I don't think Victoria is dead. Could be new flashbacks, or simply because if she would not be listed, a lot fans already would have suspect this would happen. And on a lot other shows Stars are credited for episodes they ar not in. We will find out in one or two weeks. :) Link to comment
Melvinvdriet April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Here is a interview with Madeline Stowe about Burn. http://tvline.com/2015/04/20/revenge-victoria-dies-madeleine-stowe-series-finale-spoilers/ Edited April 20, 2015 by Melvinvdriet Link to comment
Just Here April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Press release for the season finale ("Two Graves") is now available on ABC's media website. There's not much of a description, but the guest star list has a notable return: Victoria's mother, Marion Harper, played by Adrienne Barbeau.* -- Perhaps, there's a case of the "estranged mother of my enemy is my friend," and Emily uses Marion to get some final revenge on Victoria? (Edit: Given the Madeline Stowe interview that Melvindriet posted, then scratch this theory.) Christa B. Allen is also listed, so she will be back for the final two episodes ("Aftermath" and "Two Graves"). Same with Courtney Love's assassin character. Also of note, a minor recurring pastor/priest (played by David Moses) returns, and there is a "Surgeon." -- So, maybe someone dies or "dies" on the operating table? And/or is given last rites? *And, if Emily/Amanda does fake her death at the end, there's an "Escape From New York" joke to be had, somewhere. Edited April 20, 2015 by Just Here Link to comment
Free April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Here is a interview with Madeline Stowe about Burn. http://tvline.com/2015/04/20/revenge-victoria-dies-madeleine-stowe-series-finale-spoilers/ Thanks, at least she confirmed it. Link to comment
alias1 April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Since Victoria's mother is in the cast, I have to believe they are all going to be flashbacks. 1 Link to comment
Cranberry April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Here's another one from eOnline: http://ca.eonline.com/news/648218/is-victoria-grayson-really-dead-revenge-s-madeleine-stowe-tells-all "You'll still see stuff," Stowe coyly tells E! News of Victoria's fate, confirming that she will definitely still appear in "flashbacks" that contain big "revelations" and will fully shed light on what motivated Victoria to take her own life in order to finally bring down Amanda. But even if Victoria somehow miraculously survived the major blast (which we highly doubt after our chat with the leading lady), Stowe confirms her time on the show is officially done, telling us, "This is my last season." Link to comment
Maverick April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Sounds like Josh Bowman--she's ready to cut her losses on this shit. Smart lady. Maybe she'll get a role on 12 Monkeys next season. 3 Link to comment
DB in CMH April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Sounds like Josh Bowman--she's ready to cut her losses on this shit. Smart lady. Maybe she'll get a role on 12 Monkeys next season. There was a lot of thinly veiled "get me the fuck out of here" in that interview. Interesting, we've seen the same thing from Josh, Emily, and now Madeline. Why would they both to continue dragging this out? The cast doesn't even want to see it continue. 2 Link to comment
Dirtybubble April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 Since Victoria's mother is in the cast, I have to believe they are all going to be flashbacks. Ooh Adrienne Barbeau is coming back?! WhoOhOoo! Even if it's only in flashbacks I'd be happy. I meet her once at a horror convention, super nice lady. Link to comment
Free April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 There was a lot of thinly veiled "get me the fuck out of here" in that interview. Interesting, we've seen the same thing from Josh, Emily, and now Madeline. Why would they both to continue dragging this out? The cast doesn't even want to see it continue. Exactly, they've lost all of the Graysons and Emily's revenge is done. It just needs to end because this series has already exhausted itself a long time ago and they really have nothing good left to offer. Most people either dropped it a long time ago or want it to end. Link to comment
Melvinvdriet April 24, 2015 Share April 24, 2015 I found this in Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Vicky_Grayson/status/591606085447974912 Ben will be killed.. But do you think it's fake? Link to comment
alias1 April 24, 2015 Share April 24, 2015 I found this in Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Vicky_Grayson/status/591606085447974912 Ben will be killed.. But do you think it's fake? Is there more to this? It looks like a script, right? Who is Marion? WG is White Gold, the Courtney Love character. Would love to know more. Link to comment
Melvinvdriet April 24, 2015 Share April 24, 2015 No this was the only picture unfortunately.. It also makes me more and more curious. Like the wait every week isn't hard enough already. Marion is Victoria's mother. She is coming back in the finale. I initially thought it would be in flashbacks again but if this script is real we might actually meet her in the present. Link to comment
Rick Kitchen April 25, 2015 Share April 25, 2015 A preview clip from next week's show with Victoria's suicide note (though with the body too burned to identify, I bet she isn't really dead) http://www.eonline.com/news/650088/yep-she-s-really-gone-revenge-reveals-victoria-grayson-s-heartbreaking-suicide-letter Link to comment
Free April 25, 2015 Share April 25, 2015 A preview clip from next week's show with Victoria's suicide note (though with the body too burned to identify, I bet she isn't really dead) http://www.eonline.com/news/650088/yep-she-s-really-gone-revenge-reveals-victoria-grayson-s-heartbreaking-suicide-letter The actress confirmed her death herself in an interview where she pretty much explained the thought process behind the choice. Link to comment
Melvinvdriet May 2, 2015 Share May 2, 2015 Interesting interview about the finale: http://www.ew.com/article/05/01/revenge-series-finale-spoilers 1 Link to comment
alias1 May 2, 2015 Share May 2, 2015 Interesting interview about the finale: http://www.ew.com/article/05/01/revenge-series-finale-spoilers Thanks, Melvin. Very interesting. They seem to promise an ending that fans will find satisfactory. I hope so. I know a lot of people are going around saying how much they hate this show now but I have loved this last season. I can't wait for the next two episodes. Link to comment
Melvinvdriet May 2, 2015 Share May 2, 2015 (edited) Me neither! They all can keep saying they hate it, but that doesn't matter to me. I still love it. :) But Im praying for a ending that will satisfy me, cause no matter how good a series can be, the ending is at least as important to me! I was also a True blood & Lost fan. Both endings ruined the entire series for me personally. I even sold my dvds from both, so the next 9 days are exciting! Edited May 2, 2015 by Melvinvdriet 1 Link to comment
Dirtybubble May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 They seem to promise an ending that fans will find satisfactory. Well they would promise a good finale. No show in their right mind would say yeah the finale is going to suck donkey balls. I noticed that ABC isn't even advertising Revenge anymore. The only commercials I see for Sunday night is OUAT and the finale of Secrets & Lies 2 Link to comment
Free May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 Well they would promise a good finale. No show in their right mind would say yeah the finale is going to suck donkey balls. I noticed that ABC isn't even advertising Revenge anymore. The only commercials I see for Sunday night is OUAT and the finale of Secrets & Lies I also noticed that even before the cancellation, no point in promoting what's already on its way out. 1 Link to comment
GaT May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 Thanks, Melvin. Very interesting. They seem to promise an ending that fans will find satisfactory. Maybe it will be Emily waking up & it turns out everything after season 1 was a dream. 1 Link to comment
alias1 May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 Maybe it will be Emily waking up & it turns out everything after season 1 was a dream. You're just joking, right??? No, that would be terrible. Link to comment
GaT May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 You're just joking, right??? No, that would be terrible. Yes, I was joking. 2 Link to comment
KoBnR May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 You're just joking, right??? No, that would be terrible. I would love that actually. To know that Emily Thorne still exists. I love big twist FU endings. Link to comment
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