Season 18: Jack McCoy, D.A.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don’t know why I thought Mike and Elizabeth had a relationship until after she was done treating him. But yeah, I agree it’s unforgivable when the patient is a minor and ethically wrong when it’s an adult. Maybe it’s my bias, and I’ll happily accept being a hypocrite, because this is fiction, after all, so I can accept that it’s okay because she stopped treating him when they became involved. And I don’t think it lasted that long because when she was raped, while Mike was angry, I didn’t get any hints that they were still seeing each other.

And Cathy was totally using a defense that wasn’t true-not so much as phoney, because such a defense is real for actual victims. But you could see her mind whirling and trying to figure out how to explain away the proof against her. so the numnut just FORGOT the significance of Meredith?

Okay, I take back what I said about Mike being a hybrid of Ben and Jack. He’s just a younger version of Jack. He doesn’t have Ben’s morality.

Onwards…

For FUCK’s SAKE, it’s FUCKING 2008 and so finding the Pastor not guilty after he admitted Whites are superior and Muslims an inferior race? Mike should have asked what about Blacks? Hispanics? Other races? Are those also infidels?🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

At least the show had the balls to have that other cult leader be found guilty in season five, I think it was? Sam Robards played the Jim Jones wannabe. I’m so disappointed in Ed Zuckerman.

The case TOTALLY should have been a mistrial. That idiot juror swore to follow the law, not “do the right thing” as to his beliefs. Stoopid Judge.

And what happened to Jack’s old office? Mike not good enough to take over it, like Jack took it over when Ben left? Mike’s office sort of looks like Ben’s office from the unofficial pilot-no privacy, all the noise outside and other side offices.

”Burn Card”-I guess I should be grateful that the case against Ed was dropped. Mike, again, being an utter asshole. It’s BECAUSE they all know Ed and his record that he should have dug deeper before rushing for an indictment.

So I hope in the new season, we do see Ed, because Jesse was right-loose ends that can be tied up. Like maybe after a few months, he returned to the force at a different precinct.

The best part about this episode was seeing Lupo’s 🐶 looking up at him innocently, even though he said he needed to go potty!😂😂😂😂 

”Submission” should have been an episode for Criminal Intent than this one. I still cringe when I see how Lara Flynn Boyle butchered her face.

 

[Door County Cherry]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on whether Elizabeth violated ethics because she got involved with Mike after he completed his required sessions in the aftermath of Max’s murder, and not during. And there’s the fact she didn’t groom him; he wasn’t a minor, and she wasn’t manipulating him.

Whether or not she violated her ethics isn't really an issue of opinion.   I mean, we can have opinions on it but her profession has defined professional ethics tied to her license to practice.  While or after she treats him, it could lead to her license getting pulled.

[Xeliou66]

I saw Burn Card today as well, kind of an unsatisfying exit for Green in that he didn’t look good in the episode and I would love to know what happened to him after his exit. I did like certain parts of the episode - I loved Green talking about Lennie, and there were some good moments with Van Buren, and it was a good beginning to the Lupo/Bernard partnership. I also liked seeing Lupo’s dog. I did think Cutter was in a bit of a rush to get Green indicted, it was a bit weird how quick he was to assume Green committed murder.

Strike was just on, unique episode in seeing Cutter and Rubirosa go up against each other at trial, that was entertaining and the case was good as well, it was a good twist that the defendant had actually hired the victim to kill his wife. I loved Jack berating the ADA who was giving Connie a hard time about working for the defense, that was great. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Short season-this season was the year of the writers’ strike.

The last few episodes of this season just didn’t feel like Mothership episodes.

One more left and then on to Season 19! Which starts tomorrow.

[Halting Hex]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Nope. Seasons 7 and 8 had Merkerson/Orbach/Bratt/Waterston/Lowell/Hill.

I know, that's why I said the current cast, which has this rump of 18 and 19 and 20, is the only one to run for more than two seasons.

I am surprised to realize that 7/8 is the only other bloc to have even two seasons without a change.  Huh.

Quote

As to your question about when Elizabeth was fooled, it was mentioned up thread that it was season three’s ”Point of View”. It was Lennie’s first appearance. 

Ah, yes, of course.  I myself talked about Ben ripping her on the stand.  I just didn't put it together with her getting snowed that way.  Thanks.

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

At least the show had the balls to have that other cult leader be found guilty in season five, I think it was? Sam Robards played the Jim Jones wannabe.

That's episode 4.07, "Apocrypha".  (With Logan and little cult girl.). Jack's season five encounter with a "religious" "leader" was 5.12 "Progeny", with Edward Herrmann as the anti-abortionist behind the bomb-assassination of the doctor.

Quote

”Submission” should have been an episode for Criminal Intent than this one.

It probably could have been adapted easily enough, with scenes between LFB, David Harbour and the guy who played "Marty" to give it that flavor.  I don't know if they could have kept enough of the mystery, though. 

(Caveat:  I'm not terribly fond of CI and thus don't know how good they are at preserving ambiguity despite their "villain scenes".  So I might be selling them short.  [I'm basically Mothership-only, with LA and UK the only other ones I watch.]. Although, to be fair, the one time I tried to watch a Goldblum CI, it wasn't the script that drove me away…it was the awful music score.)

[Prairie Rose]

"Darkness" is actually a favorite episode of mine, at least the scenes during the blackout. I loved how the lights went back on in the squad room to cheers, only to turn to groans when they went out again seconds later! 😂

I think "Illegal" is where Jack had the immortal line, "now I know why Adam Schiff was always so grumpy". Brilliant!!!

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

"Darkness" is actually a favorite episode of mine, at least the scenes during the blackout. I loved how the lights went back on in the squad room to cheers, only to turn to groans when they went out again seconds later! 😂

I think "Illegal" is where Jack had the immortal line, "now I know why Adam Schiff was always so grumpy". Brilliant!!!

Illegal is a great episode for Jack, the scene where he tears into that asshole Latham and fires him is just glorious. And then I loved when he took the stand at the trial, and gave a powerful speech about how he upholds the law and fights for justice when the defense attorney grilled him as to whether he had a political agenda. He mentioned a lot of prior cases in his testimony as well, and yeah his line about Schiff being grumpy was great.

[Prairie Rose]

"Misbegotten" (aka "the gay gene") was one of my least favorite episodes of the entire show. I felt so bad for the mother and baby.

[Prevailing Wind]

59 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

"Misbegotten" (aka "the gay gene") was one of my least favorite episodes of the entire show. I felt so bad for the mother and baby.

Every time I see Kevin Rankin in something else, I think, "Oh, it's the gay brother."

[Xeliou66]

Illegal was on tonight - I absolutely love the scene where Jack berates that prick Latham and then fires him, Latham was such a turd, he deliberately tanked the case before the grand jury because he didn’t want an indictment and it was glorious to see Jack tear into him and fire him for his actions. This is one of Jack’s best episodes as DA, I loved his testimony at the end to rebut Latham’s testimony, and I liked when the police bureaucrat came at him at the restaurant, Jack simply said “I believe my $30 steak’s getting cold”. I would love to see them give Jack a meatier episode in the current season where he has more to do, I know he probably wants a reduced workload but it would be nice if in one episode he got some meatier stuff to show off his passion, even for just one scene.

We got our first reference to Lupo’s past incident where his partner was killed in this episode, we got more details about that in season 20’s Steel Eyed Death. I always liked the Van Buren/Lupo relationship, Van Buren always thought highly of Lupo. Lupo/Green are an underrated pairing, they worked well together. 

[andromeda331]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Illegal was on tonight - I absolutely love the scene where Jack berates that prick Latham and then fires him, Latham was such a turd, he deliberately tanked the case before the grand jury because he didn’t want an indictment and it was glorious to see Jack tear into him and fire him for his actions. This is one of Jack’s best episodes as DA, I loved his testimony at the end to rebut Latham’s testimony, and I liked when the police bureaucrat came at him at the restaurant, Jack simply said “I believe my $30 steak’s getting cold”. I would love to see them give Jack a meatier episode in the current season where he has more to do, I know he probably wants a reduced workload but it would be nice if in one episode he got some meatier stuff to show off his passion, even for just one scene.

We got our first reference to Lupo’s past incident where his partner was killed in this episode, we got more details about that in season 20’s Steel Eyed Death. I always liked the Van Buren/Lupo relationship, Van Buren always thought highly of Lupo. Lupo/Green are an underrated pairing, they worked well together. 

That was such a great scene. I loved his testimony too. 

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, andromeda331 said:

That was such a great scene. I loved his testimony too. 

Also the scene where that same police bureaucrat called Jack a “placeholder” and Jack rightfully went off on them and threatened to haul every cop at the riot before the grand jury, that was great as well.

And of course Jack’s testimony “where there’s a law I will enforce it. Where there’s a crime I’ll prosecute it. And when there’s a victim, I’ll speak for that victim. That’s my bottom line” that was awesome.

Illegal is my favorite season 18 episode. 

[andromeda331]

23 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Also the scene where that same police bureaucrat called Jack a “placeholder” and Jack rightfully went off on them and threatened to haul every cop at the riot before the grand jury, that was great as well.

And of course Jack’s testimony “where there’s a law I will enforce it. Where there’s a crime I’ll prosecute it. And when there’s a victim, I’ll speak for that victim. That’s my bottom line” that was awesome.

Illegal is my favorite season 18 episode. 

Mine too. Also, really like the first episode because I had been planning to quit after watching it. Season 17 was so bad that I assumed season 18 would be just as bad. I was surprised when the episode was good and decided to give the rest of a season a chance.

[Xeliou66]

6 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Mine too. Also, really like the first episode because I had been planning to quit after watching it. Season 17 was so bad that I assumed season 18 would be just as bad. I was surprised when the episode was good and decided to give the rest of a season a chance.

Season 17 is L&O’s weakest season I agree - that being said I don’t think it was terrible, it’s still better than most of the shit that’s on tv, but it was subpar for L&O standards. But I agree the show got new life in season 18, Lupo was such a huge improvement over Beauty Queen that that made a lot of difference, and while I missed Jack in the courtroom moving him into the DA role worked well and Cutter was a good addition and finally the entire cast had strong chemistry, and it felt like the writing got a boost as well. I liked the season 18 premiere because of how well it did in bringing in Lupo and Cutter and transition McCoy into the DA’s role.

Illegal is definitely my favorite season 18 episode, it was really great all around, Jack’s stuff was awesome but the others all shined as well. I wish there were more Lupo/Green episodes, they were such a good pairing, it would’ve been awesome if Lupo had replaced Fontana instead of Beauty Queen.

[katie9918]

On 4/2/2022 at 10:08 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Also the scene where that same police bureaucrat called Jack a “placeholder” and Jack rightfully went off on them and threatened to haul every cop at the riot before the grand jury, that was great as well.

And of course Jack’s testimony “where there’s a law I will enforce it. Where there’s a crime I’ll prosecute it. And when there’s a victim, I’ll speak for that victim. That’s my bottom line” that was awesome.

Illegal is my favorite season 18 episode. 

And this should be the mission statement of  all District Attorneys everywhere.

Edited April 6, 2022 by katie9918

[GHScorpiosRule]

The last two seasons also gave us back René Balcer, so that explains the very good writing. Well, except for those two episodes in the 20th season.

[Xeliou66]

Betrayal was just on - I know we’ve discussed it many times before regarding Olivet admitting to a relationship with a detective that was probably Logan, but I’ll say again, I was 100% on Jack’s side here - Olivet testified on behalf of a woman who shot her husband in cold blood, and volunteered to do it just because she didn’t like one of the prosecutions witnesses, and then got on her high horse about how awful it was for a patient and therapist to have sex, only for everyone to find out Olivet herself had sex with a patient. I thought Jack was 100% right to tell Cutter about it, Olivet’s hypocrisy had to be seen by the jury.

I really didn’t care for that revelation about Olivet, it really made her look bad and hypocritical, I lost respect for her as a result.

I did like seeing Jack on his motorcycle, I found it interesting that he still took his motorcycle to work despite being DA, I figured he would have a car service or something.

I do like the episode, even if it was rather convenient that they found out about “Meredith” being the name of the town instead of a person at the last minute.

Next up was Submission, the episode where they found a finger in the dead dog, I hated those rich dogfighting scumbags and I liked Connie’s outrage at them. I liked the case as well, and I liked seeing the wine expert tell the DA’s about counterfeit wine and Jack having a sip of it, that was a unique scene. And Lupo adopting one of the rescued dogs at the end was a nice touch. 

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Betrayal was just on - I know we’ve discussed it many times before regarding Olivet admitting to a relationship with a detective that was probably Logan, but I’ll say again, I was 100% on Jack’s side here - Olivet testified on behalf of a woman who shot her husband in cold blood, and volunteered to do it just because she didn’t like one of the prosecutions witnesses, and then got on her high horse about how awful it was for a patient and therapist to have sex, only for everyone to find out Olivet herself had sex with a patient. I thought Jack was 100% right to tell Cutter about it, Olivet’s hypocrisy had to be seen by the jury.

I really didn’t care for that revelation about Olivet, it really made her look bad and hypocritical, I lost respect for her as a result.

I did like seeing Jack on his motorcycle, I found it interesting that he still took his motorcycle to work despite being DA, I figured he would have a car service or something.

I do like the episode, even if it was rather convenient that they found out about “Meredith” being the name of the town instead of a person at the last minute.

Next up was Submission, the episode where they found a finger in the dead dog, I hated those rich dogfighting scumbags and I liked Connie’s outrage at them. I liked the case as well, and I liked seeing the wine expert tell the DA’s about counterfeit wine and Jack having a sip of it, that was a unique scene. And Lupo adopting one of the rescued dogs at the end was a nice touch. 

Yeah, that was a bad episode for Olivett as bad as her in season 10 with the killer kid Jenny. Except for those she was always very good and professional. It really seemed out of character for her to testify for a murderer and even more so to only do it because she didn't like someone on the prosecution. 

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, that was a bad episode for Olivett as bad as her in season 10 with the killer kid Jenny. Except for those she was always very good and professional. It really seemed out of character for her to testify for a murderer and even more so to only do it because she didn't like someone on the prosecution. 

Agreed - Olivet came off as arrogant and self righteous in Betrayal, and I enjoyed seeing her get taken down a peg after her self righteous behavior. Jack was in the right in this episode, and he was right when he told Olivet it wasn’t her finest hour when she confronted him in the parking garage. Olivet looked exceptionally hypocritical, and I also think back to the season 3 episode Promises to Keep, when Olivet was strongly against sex between a patient and therapist, and that makes her look like such a hypocrite knowing she had sex with a detective around the same time. It really sours me on her, I mean Skoda is my favorite but I usually like Olivet but she didn’t look great a few times. 

[andromeda331]

12 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed - Olivet came off as arrogant and self righteous in Betrayal, and I enjoyed seeing her get taken down a peg after her self righteous behavior. Jack was in the right in this episode, and he was right when he told Olivet it wasn’t her finest hour when she confronted him in the parking garage. Olivet looked exceptionally hypocritical, and I also think back to the season 3 episode Promises to Keep, when Olivet was strongly against sex between a patient and therapist, and that makes her look like such a hypocrite knowing she had sex with a detective around the same time. It really sours me on her, I mean Skoda is my favorite but I usually like Olivet but she didn’t look great a few times. 

I really liked her too. But yeah, she had some terrible moments.

[Xeliou66]

9 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I really liked her too. But yeah, she had some terrible moments.

Yep, and that’s why I disliked the revelation of her sleeping with a patient/detective, it made her look hypocritical and unprofessional. I like Olivet but Skoda will always be my favorite, he was awesome. I wish they would bring a psych expert on to the revival, Olivet/Skoda added a lot to the show.

[andromeda331]

17 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, and that’s why I disliked the revelation of her sleeping with a patient/detective, it made her look hypocritical and unprofessional. I like Olivet but Skoda will always be my favorite, he was awesome. I wish they would bring a psych expert on to the revival, Olivet/Skoda added a lot to the show.

Me too. Someone as good as Skoda. Although I don't know what he was thinking in the episode Bitch, where he completely buys Jackie's bullshit story about hormones making her kill. 

[balmz]

maybe his hormones were acting up for some reason and that's why he bought it

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Green’s exit in Burn Card and I find it disappointing how Green went out on a less than high note - they didn’t trash his character but they didn’t make him look great either as he nearly went to prison because he was trying to protect the woman he didn’t want found. Green is one of my favorite characters and he should’ve gotten a better send off. It was interesting how Green’s gambling was mentioned back in his first episode and his final episode revolves around gambling. I did love the reference to Lennie and how Green started gambling again while grieving Lennie’s death. I thought Lupo was really good in this episode and I liked how Green thanked him at the end for being a good cop after he figured everything out - Lupo is one of my favorite detectives. It was also a good start to the Lupo/Bernard partnership as they started working together on the case. And I did like the final scene between Green and Van Buren.

I thought Cutter was way too adamant that Green was guilty of something, he didn’t know Green as well as the others, but he knew Green and it would seem like he would’ve had doubts that Green was guilty. Connie was right when she said sometimes the only way to get Cutter’s attention is to do something, as Cutter was rather stubborn in this one. Jack was barely in this one, but he was right to tell them to threaten April with a murder charge to cut Green loose, something extreme had to be done.

When I first saw the episode I was certain it would turn out that Green would be the father of April’s child, but that wasn’t the case apparently. That would’ve been more compelling because I didn’t really buy him just protecting her out of guilt.

I just wish Green had gotten a better exit, it wasn’t a bad episode and there were some good moments but Green is one of my favorites and I wish he had gotten a happier send off. Part of me hopes Green makes an appearance sometime in the future now that L&O is back - I know the actor said he might be open to appearing again, but after what they did to Jamie Ross when she appeared last season I’m hesitant to wish for any beloved past character to return out of fear they would just crap on them and make them look bad for dramatic purpose, I’m still pissed about how Jamie was treated.

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Part of me hopes Green makes an appearance sometime in the future now that L&O is back

BITE YOUR TONGUE! You saw what that asshat Eid did to Jamie.

16 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

but after what they did to Jamie Ross when she appeared last season I’m hesitant to wish for any beloved past character to return out of fear they would just crap on them and make them look bad for dramatic purpose, I’m still pissed about how Jamie was treated.

THIS.

I don't want anyone from the original run to ever appear. They trashed Jamie. For no good reason. They could have used an ADA we'd never seen or heard of to do this to. 

Jesse, just stay away. FAR, FAR, FAR, FAAAAR away.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

BITE YOUR TONGUE! You saw what that asshat Eid did to Jamie.

THIS.

I don't want anyone from the original run to ever appear. They trashed Jamie. For no good reason. They could have used an ADA we'd never seen or heard of to do this to. 

Jesse, just stay away. FAR, FAR, FAR, FAAAAR away.

Yep, like I said, I’m scared of what they would do to another beloved past character after the Jamie debacle. There was no excuse for shitting on Jamie like that. I would only want a past character to appear again if they gave them something good to do and didn’t just run over them with a bus for dramatic purpose. Like you, I’m still outraged about how they treated Jamie. And it’s disappointing that I have such reservations about them bringing back past characters because there are a slew of great characters that they could bring back.

But anyway about Green and his exit I just wish Green had gotten a better exit, or had been referenced in the future so we know what he was up to. Burn Card had some good moments but it wasn’t the best exit for Green.

[andromeda331]

On 10/18/2022 at 11:38 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, like I said, I’m scared of what they would do to another beloved past character after the Jamie debacle. There was no excuse for shitting on Jamie like that. I would only want a past character to appear again if they gave them something good to do and didn’t just run over them with a bus for dramatic purpose. Like you, I’m still outraged about how they treated Jamie. And it’s disappointing that I have such reservations about them bringing back past characters because there are a slew of great characters that they could bring back.

But anyway about Green and his exit I just wish Green had gotten a better exit, or had been referenced in the future so we know what he was up to. Burn Card had some good moments but it wasn’t the best exit for Green.

So do I. Green deserved better. The whole thing was crazy and didn't make any sense. I didn't like Stone's exit episode either. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So do I. Green deserved better. The whole thing was crazy and didn't make any sense. I didn't like Stone's exit episode either. 

Seems like the only ones to get a decent send off/goodbye were Phil (promotion/admin after surviving being shot); Lennie when he retired, sort of and went on to Trial by Jury (sadly Orbach passed away shortly thereafter); blech Rey; Fontana retired.

On the DA side, well, Stone left because of real life issues with Moriarty. We've discussed how the better episode for his leaving should have been " Sanctuary" instead. Jamie, Abbie, and Paul, oh, and yes Rohmbot weren't killed off when they left.

I'll never understand the leaving under a cloud for Green. He and Martin, deserved so much better.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So do I. Green deserved better. The whole thing was crazy and didn't make any sense. I didn't like Stone's exit episode either. 

Yeah Green deserved a better exit, he was a great character. There were a few good moments in Burn Card but I disliked how Green left under somewhat of a cloud. 

25 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Seems like the only ones to get a decent send off/goodbye were Phil (promotion/admin after surviving being shot); Lennie when he retired, sort of and went on to Trial by Jury (sadly Orbach passed away shortly thereafter); blech Rey; Fontana retired.

On the DA side, well, Stone left because of real life issues with Moriarty. We've discussed how the better episode for his leaving should have been " Sanctuary" instead. Jamie, Abbie, and Paul, oh, and yes Rohmbot weren't killed off when they left.

I'll never understand the leaving under a cloud for Green. He and Martin, deserved so much better.

I have mixed feelings about Stone’s exit - on one hand I think Sanctuary might’ve been a more fitting ending for Ben’s character, but on the other hand I would’ve hated to see Ben’s relationship with Adam end on a sour note, as they always had a good relationship, and I really liked their warm goodbye at the end of Old Friends. So I was okay with Ben’s exit overall.

Exits are something L&O hasn’t always done well but for the most part they’ve been okay - on the police side Cerreta, Briscoe, Curtis and Fontana all got fine exits, and don’t forget Cragen did as well, he transferred to an anti-corruption task force and then to SVU, and it was implied Van Buren was retiring so I would say she got a good exit as well. We don’t know what happened to Lupo or Bernard - I have a feeling they deleted the scene where they mentioned Bernard this season, which is irritating, but I assume they are fine. On the down side, Green didn’t get a good exit, Logan exited under a cloud as well although at least he became a regular on CI years later, Greevey was killed, and Beauty Queen Cassady didn’t even get a reference but I assume she just transferred out.

On the legal side - Adam Schiff got a good exit, while he didn’t say goodbye on screen, I liked how they referenced he was doing humanitarian work overseas in his retirement. Nora didn’t get an exit but the writers have said she just decided not to run for DA and went back to teaching, and I would guess Arthur Branch ran for higher office given he was politically ambitious, he was mentioned a couple of times after his exit but we weren’t told what he was up to. Robinette, Ross and Carmichael got good exits, although Robinette’s character changed after he left when he returned and they absolutely crapped on Jamie in season 21, Serena was fired and I assume became a defense lawyer, Cutter and Rubirosa were both still in the office when the show ended and both appeared on SVU assisting with cases and the plate on the wall in season 21 showed they had both been promoted in the DA’s office which was nice. The one who got the worst exit was Claire, she deserved a lot better than being killed off in a car crash in the epically terrible Aftershock episode, and Borgia met a bad end as well. So exits on L&O have been a mixed bag.

Anyway back to season 18 and Burn Card, I wish Green had gotten a much better exit, he was an awesome character, and while it would be interesting to know what he was up to, I’m very hesitant to wish for his return after they botched Jamie’s return in epic fashion.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Green deserved a better exit, he was a great character. There were a few good moments in Burn Card but I disliked how Green left under somewhat of a cloud. 

I have mixed feelings about Stone’s exit - on one hand I think Sanctuary might’ve been a more fitting ending for Ben’s character, but on the other hand I would’ve hated to see Ben’s relationship with Adam end on a sour note, as they always had a good relationship, and I really liked their warm goodbye at the end of Old Friends. So I was okay with Ben’s exit overall.

Sanctuary was a better one to end on. It made more sense for Ben to want to quit then. My issue with Old Friends is how the witness kept going on and on how she would be safe if she didn't testify. There was no way the mob was going to leave her alone if she didn't testify.  Everyone seemed to agree with her especially after she was killed. She was a liability and they were going to kill her either way. Her only chance was to testify and go into Witness Protection.  

Quote

Exits are something L&O hasn’t always done well but for the most part they’ve been okay - on the police side Cerreta, Briscoe, Curtis and Fontana all got fine exits, and don’t forget Cragen did as well, he transferred to an anti-corruption task force and then to SVU, and it was implied Van Buren was retiring so I would say she got a good exit as well. We don’t know what happened to Lupo or Bernard - I have a feeling they deleted the scene where they mentioned Bernard this season, which is irritating, but I assume they are fine. On the down side, Green didn’t get a good exit, Logan exited under a cloud as well although at least he became a regular on CI years later, Greevey was killed, and Beauty Queen Cassady didn’t even get a reference but I assume she just transferred out.

On the legal side - Adam Schiff got a good exit, while he didn’t say goodbye on screen, I liked how they referenced he was doing humanitarian work overseas in his retirement. Nora didn’t get an exit but the writers have said she just decided not to run for DA and went back to teaching, and I would guess Arthur Branch ran for higher office given he was politically ambitious, he was mentioned a couple of times after his exit but we weren’t told what he was up to. Robinette, Ross and Carmichael got good exits, although Robinette’s character changed after he left when he returned and they absolutely crapped on Jamie in season 21, Serena was fired and I assume became a defense lawyer, Cutter and Rubirosa were both still in the office when the show ended and both appeared on SVU assisting with cases and the plate on the wall in season 21 showed they had both been promoted in the DA’s office which was nice. The one who got the worst exit was Claire, she deserved a lot better than being killed off in a car crash in the epically terrible Aftershock episode, and Borgia met a bad end as well. So exits on L&O have been a mixed bag.

Anyway back to season 18 and Burn Card, I wish Green had gotten a much better exit, he was an awesome character, and while it would be interesting to know what he was up to, I’m very hesitant to wish for his return after they botched Jamie’s return in epic fashion.

Those were good exits. It's odd they never saw Abby again since she said she'd be right next door and they could have had her reoccur as a Fed lawyer but given how bad Robinette and Jamie's visits were I'm glad she didn't. Same with Adam. Connie exited if you count Law & Order LA but she moved to LA to help care for her mother. I do wish she came back for the reboot it would be cool to see Connie as the lead prosecutor but I can see why the actress didn't want to leave the show she was on. I still hate how they change Robinette or at very least gave us a reason why he changed. Even just saying he saw how many defendents had terrible lawyers or ones more out for their own issues then doing their job defending their clients.

I agree the worse was Claire. I hated that she was killed in a car accident. I always wanted her exit to team up with her friend from that one episode where they talk about opening a flower shop. While I hate the episode it would make sense for Claire to decide she leave the DA's office. She has0 and cause the accident that killed Claire. That was so messed up I don't know why they did it. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The one who got the worst exit was Claire,

8 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree the worse was Claire.

I disagree. The worst exit was Alex-she was beaten and tortured. Claire probably died on impact-after whining the whole episode.

[Xeliou66]

14 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I disagree. The worst exit was Alex-she was beaten and tortured. Claire probably died on impact-after whining the whole episode.

While Borgia’s murder was an awful way to die, Borgia just didn’t make much of an impact on the show during her brief time. I liked Claire and thought she was a good character and I wish she had just decided to leave the DA’s office on her own, and maybe my dislike of her exit has to do with my all-around hatred of Aftershock, it would’ve been much better if Claire just got burnt out with prosecuting cases given her strong compassion and opposition to the death penalty and decide to either go into other legal work or do something else with her life, it would’ve opened the door for her to come back later to make guest appearances as well. I just really hated how they killed her off. 
 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Xeliou66

[Xeliou66]

23 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Sanctuary was a better one to end on. It made more sense for Ben to want to quit then. My issue with Old Friends is how the witness kept going on and on how she would be safe if she didn't testify. There was no way the mob was going to leave her alone if she didn't testify.  Everyone seemed to agree with her especially after she was killed. She was a liability and they were going to kill her either way. Her only chance was to testify and go into Witness Protection.  

Those were good exits. It's odd they never saw Abby again since she said she'd be right next door and they could have had her reoccur as a Fed lawyer but given how bad Robinette and Jamie's visits were I'm glad she didn't. Same with Adam. Connie exited if you count Law & Order LA but she moved to LA to help care for her mother. I do wish she came back for the reboot it would be cool to see Connie as the lead prosecutor but I can see why the actress didn't want to leave the show she was on. I still hate how they change Robinette or at very least gave us a reason why he changed. Even just saying he saw how many defendents had terrible lawyers or ones more out for their own issues then doing their job defending their clients.

I agree the worse was Claire. I hated that she was killed in a car accident. I always wanted her exit to team up with her friend from that one episode where they talk about opening a flower shop. While I hate the episode it would make sense for Claire to decide she leave the DA's office. She has0 and cause the accident that killed Claire. That was so messed up I don't know why they did it. 

I have to disagree about Ben’s exit, although I do think Sanctuary would’ve made sense as well for him to exit, I didn’t think his exit in Old Friends was that bad and I really liked his goodbye with Adam. And just to clarify about the episode the witness was going into witness protection, the mob just killed her as they were moving her.

I really liked how Adam was referenced as still being active and doing humanitarian work in Europe and Africa after his retirement as DA, that was really good and I loved how Adam called Jack and gave him his support in the election in season 19. It was kind of surprising that Abbie Carmichael didn’t appear again but at least she went out on a good note as well becoming a federal prosecutor. It’s nice to know that Cutter and Rubirosa are still with the office now, that was a nice touch in season 21.

As for Paul, not only did he change but he wasn’t even consistent - I didn’t buy that someone like Paul would defend the white nurse who sterilized the young black women, especially after Paul became more concerned about civil rights issues after his departure, but he defended her, and then in the next season he defended the terrorist who killed his cousin and made it look like a hate crime and basically said the NYPD and the government and everyone involved in the case conspired to frame his client. He was just all over the map.

Jamie’s appearances were actually done fine until season 21 - that was such a terrible mistake bringing her back just to take a dump on her, why couldn’t they have just had her be the judge presiding over the trial? That would’ve been awesome, instead of making her a part of the case, and the real Jamie would never let a murder happen or refuse to testify about it, that was just spitting in the face of the character and the viewers.

But overall I think Green may have gotten the most unsatisfying exit - he had some good scenes in the episode but I hated how he left under a cloud. He deserved a lot better.

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Strike, this is a unique episode with Rubirosa being forced to be the defense lawyer in the case due the strike. Connie did a good job as the defense lawyer, she’s my favorite of the female ADA’s and I liked seeing her hold her own against Cutter. It was a good twist that Sanderson killed the victim to silence him about Sanderson hiring him to kill his wife, instead of as revenge for killing his wife and Sanderson going to prison for it. It was also interesting that Connie was the only one to know the truth at the end about Sanderson’s full guilt, Jack suspected something but didn’t know the full story, and I liked how he assured Connie she did a good job. I also loved when Jack chewed out the other lawyers giving Connie grief for representing a defendant and threatened to put them on traffic court. 
What I didn’t get was why Bernard was so certain of Sanderson’s guilt - when it was proven he didn’t murder his wife and they had no motive at first, Bernard turned out to be right but he acted stubborn and he looked unprofessional with his outburst while testifying, I guess it was partly because he was new to homicide but he didn’t seem quite like himself.    
It’s a good episode.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Xeliou66

[Halting Hex]

And RIP to Brad William Henke, who died way too young.  (53, IIRC.)

EDIT: No, Brad was 56.  Still way too, though.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Halting Hex

[andromeda331]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:07 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched Strike, this is a unique episode with Rubirosa being forced to be the defense lawyer in the case due the strike. Connie did a good job as the defense lawyer, she’s my favorite of the female ADA’s and I liked seeing her hold her own against Cutter. It was a good twist that Sanderson killed the victim to silence him about Sanderson hiring him to kill his wife, instead of as revenge for killing his wife and Sanderson going to prison for it. It was also interesting that Connie was the only one to know the truth at the end about Sanderson’s full guilt, Jack suspected something but didn’t know the full story, and I liked how he assured Connie she did a good job. I also loved when Jack chewed out the other lawyers giving Connie grief for representing a defendant and threatened to put them on traffic court. 

I liked this case for the reason of Connie having to be the defense lawyer. That made it much more interesting. I like that she took it seriously and did her job and McCoy backing her up to the other lawyers. That was crappy of them. They came off like she chose to defend the client when really it was the judge. She really didn't have much choice. It had to be weird for her defending instead of prosecuting.  I love Sanderson accusing her of tanking the case. Okay, go to trial. You'll be convicted. You did kill him and you don't have the revenge for killing your wife to help you.

 

Quote

What I didn’t get was why Bernard was so certain of Sanderson’s guilt - when it was proven he didn’t murder his wife and they had no motive at first, Bernard turned out to be right but he acted stubborn and he looked unprofessional with his outburst while testifying, I guess it was partly because he was new to homicide but he didn’t seem quite like himself.    
It’s a good episode.

I don't either. What were they suppose to do after he didn't kill his wife? There was no motive. They had to move on. He may have been right but there was no nothing to support until later. What made him think he was guilty?

[Xeliou66]

20 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I liked this case for the reason of Connie having to be the defense lawyer. That made it much more interesting. I like that she took it seriously and did her job and McCoy backing her up to the other lawyers. That was crappy of them. They came off like she chose to defend the client when really it was the judge. She really didn't have much choice. It had to be weird for her defending instead of prosecuting.  I love Sanderson accusing her of tanking the case. Okay, go to trial. You'll be convicted. You did kill him and you don't have the revenge for killing your wife to help you.

 

I don't either. What were they suppose to do after he didn't kill his wife? There was no motive. They had to move on. He may have been right but there was no nothing to support until later. What made him think he was guilty?

It would’ve been interesting if the case had gone to verdict - because no one knew the real motive behind the crime and Connie obviously couldn’t inform anyone, but Sanderson had told a lot of lies and evidence was mounting against him and so he probably would’ve been convicted. I loved Jack berating the ADA’s giving Connie grief for defending Sanderson, it wasn’t even her choice, the judge instructed her to do so, she was doing a good job and I liked Jack threatening to put those jackasses on traffic court. The part of the episode that seemed off was Bernard, he had no reason to suspect Sanderson other than his criminal record, a crime which he had been exonerated of. I guess they were still getting a feel for how Bernard’s character would be, but this wasn’t his best episode, sometimes there are some bumps when characters are being introduced and it felt like this is how it was with Bernard. 
It is one of the more unique episodes - I really liked seeing Connie in a different role, she’s one of my favorite characters.

[andromeda331]

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

It would’ve been interesting if the case had gone to verdict - because no one knew the real motive behind the crime and Connie obviously couldn’t inform anyone, but Sanderson had told a lot of lies and evidence was mounting against him and so he probably would’ve been convicted. I loved Jack berating the ADA’s giving Connie grief for defending Sanderson, it wasn’t even her choice, the judge instructed her to do so, she was doing a good job and I liked Jack threatening to put those jackasses on traffic court.

Yeah, it would have but I agree he still would have been found guilty. The evidence was good and he told too many lies for the jury to believe anything he says or what his defense is. Connie's one of my favorites too. 

Quote

 

The part of the episode that seemed off was Bernard, he had no reason to suspect Sanderson other than his criminal record, a crime which he had been exonerated of. I guess they were still getting a feel for how Bernard’s character would be, but this wasn’t his best episode, sometimes there are some bumps when characters are being introduced and it felt like this is how it was with Bernard. 
It is one of the more unique episodes - I really liked seeing Connie in a different role, she’s one of my favorite characters.

 

That'ts probably it. 

[WendyCR72]

On 2/6/2022 at 2:50 PM, Door County Cherry said:

Whether or not she violated her ethics isn't really an issue of opinion.   I mean, we can have opinions on it but her profession has defined professional ethics tied to her license to practice.  While or after she treats him, it could lead to her license getting pulled.

And that sort of sticks out to me, much as I like Olivet, because she certainly did not hesitate to call out her colleague, Diane, when she was on trial for screwing her patient, which led to him offing his fiancé.

[Xeliou66]

Just now, WendyCR72 said:

And that sort of sticks out to me, much as I like Olivet, because she certainly did not hesitate to call out her colleague, Diane, when she was on trial for screwing her patient, which led to him offing his fiancé.

Yep I’ve pointed that out as well - Olivet was one of the main ones pushing for consequences in Promises to Keep. Betrayal just made Olivet look like a hypocrite and I have the opinion that Jack was 100% right to inform Cutter about it and have him use it to impeach Olivet’s testimony, Olivet went to bat for a woman who shot her husband in cold blood and did so just because she was upset at one of the prosecution’s witnesses, she acted all high and mighty about everything and I was glad she got knocked down a peg. I liked Olivet usually but she was a hypocrite for her comments about patients and therapists sleeping together when it turned out she had slept with a patient herself.

[andromeda331]

On 3/18/2023 at 10:06 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Yep I’ve pointed that out as well - Olivet was one of the main ones pushing for consequences in Promises to Keep. Betrayal just made Olivet look like a hypocrite and I have the opinion that Jack was 100% right to inform Cutter about it and have him use it to impeach Olivet’s testimony, Olivet went to bat for a woman who shot her husband in cold blood and did so just because she was upset at one of the prosecution’s witnesses, she acted all high and mighty about everything and I was glad she got knocked down a peg. I liked Olivet usually but she was a hypocrite for her comments about patients and therapists sleeping together when it turned out she had slept with a patient herself.

She really did. I like Olivet and can't believe she crossed that line.

[Mellowyellow]

I'm rewatching this as well!

Couldn't bear to watch Ed Leave so I just skipped that ep.

Love Jack trying to rein Mike in. I've forgotten how much I adored Connie!!! It's a pleasure watching her again! She was smart and lovely without being the Serena brand of preachy.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm rewatching this as well!

Couldn't bear to watch Ed Leave so I just skipped that ep.

Love Jack trying to rein Mike in. I've forgotten how much I adored Connie!!! It's a pleasure watching her again! She was smart and lovely without being the Serena brand of preachy.

Connie is awesome, she’s my favorite of the female prosecutors! Great lawyer and had a great personality without being overly biased one way or the other, she’s terrific. She added a lot to the legal side of the show. 
This may be an unpopular opinion but Cutter could get on my nerves - he came off at times as the type who would do anything to win and a couple of times I thought he did stuff that was downright underhanded. I didn’t dislike him and he did have some good moments, but he could get on my nerves.   
I really don’t like how Green left under a cloud - Green was awesome and they should’ve found a better way to write him off. As I’ve said before I liked a few things about the episode, such as Green referencing Lennie and I liked how Lupo’s detective work was able to clear Green, but it was disappointing he left under a cloud.

[Mellowyellow]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Connie is awesome, she’s my favorite of the female prosecutors! Great lawyer and had a great personality without being overly biased one way or the other, she’s terrific. She added a lot to the legal side of the show. 
This may be an unpopular opinion but Cutter could get on my nerves - he came off at times as the type who would do anything to win and a couple of times I thought he did stuff that was downright underhanded. I didn’t dislike him and he did have some good moments, but he could get on my nerves.   
 

The vigilante in me loved Mike! Fully agree that he did some shady stuff but I loved it. He spoke to my darker side and I loved that they had yet another different character. I fully cheered and cracked up in that episode where he heavily implied that he was part of a cult and was going to get the defendant if the defendant didn't take the deal🤣

Gosh I love this show. I'm watching the brand new season and watching the old eps because there's nothing else that I like to watch these days!

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

The vigilante in me loved Mike! Fully agree that he did some shady stuff but I loved it. He spoke to my darker side and I loved that they had yet another different character. I fully cheered and cracked up in that episode where he heavily implied that he was part of a cult and was going to get the defendant if the defendant didn't take the deal🤣

Gosh I love this show. I'm watching the brand new season and watching the old eps because there's nothing else that I like to watch these days!

I have to disagree with you about Mike - he was just a bit too cocky and would do anything to win, him resorting to trickery got tiresome. He should’ve been suspended in the season 19 episode where he provoked the psychotic guy to attack him so he would be forcibly medicates and lucid to testify. I’m just not a big fan of the “do anything to win” type - it was impossible to get a character as good as Ben Stone or Jack McCoy in the lead prosecutor role, so I give Cutter something of a break, but I have a love/hate relationship with him - he had some really good moments but also some very questionable stuff.

I love this show as well - I routinely watch the old episodes plus the new season - I like the revival more than most it seems although it hasn’t reached the heights of L&O at its best. 

[WendyCR72]

This isn't about Sam Waterston/Jack McCoy, per se, but it still seems to be the most fitting thread to put this: If anyone here watches the new version of Perry Mason on HBO starring Matthew Rhys, based on the 1930s novels, when the series is set, this season [season 2], Perry has a possible new love interest and she is played by Katherine Waterston, Sam's daughter.

[ParksFarce]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:51 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Green deserved a better exit, he was a great character. There were a few good moments in Burn Card but I disliked how Green left under somewhat of a cloud. 

I have mixed feelings about Stone’s exit - on one hand I think Sanctuary might’ve been a more fitting ending for Ben’s character, but on the other hand I would’ve hated to see Ben’s relationship with Adam end on a sour note, as they always had a good relationship, and I really liked their warm goodbye at the end of Old Friends. So I was okay with Ben’s exit overall.

Exits are something L&O hasn’t always done well but for the most part they’ve been okay - on the police side Cerreta, Briscoe, Curtis and Fontana all got fine exits, and don’t forget Cragen did as well, he transferred to an anti-corruption task force and then to SVU, and it was implied Van Buren was retiring so I would say she got a good exit as well. We don’t know what happened to Lupo or Bernard - I have a feeling they deleted the scene where they mentioned Bernard this season, which is irritating, but I assume they are fine. On the down side, Green didn’t get a good exit, Logan exited under a cloud as well although at least he became a regular on CI years later, Greevey was killed, and Beauty Queen Cassady didn’t even get a reference but I assume she just transferred out.

On the legal side - Adam Schiff got a good exit, while he didn’t say goodbye on screen, I liked how they referenced he was doing humanitarian work overseas in his retirement. Nora didn’t get an exit but the writers have said she just decided not to run for DA and went back to teaching, and I would guess Arthur Branch ran for higher office given he was politically ambitious, he was mentioned a couple of times after his exit but we weren’t told what he was up to. Robinette, Ross and Carmichael got good exits, although Robinette’s character changed after he left when he returned and they absolutely crapped on Jamie in season 21, Serena was fired and I assume became a defense lawyer, Cutter and Rubirosa were both still in the office when the show ended and both appeared on SVU assisting with cases and the plate on the wall in season 21 showed they had both been promoted in the DA’s office which was nice. The one who got the worst exit was Claire, she deserved a lot better than being killed off in a car crash in the epically terrible Aftershock episode, and Borgia met a bad end as well. So exits on L&O have been a mixed bag.

Anyway back to season 18 and Burn Card, I wish Green had gotten a much better exit, he was an awesome character, and while it would be interesting to know what he was up to, I’m very hesitant to wish for his return after they botched Jamie’s return in epic fashion.

Just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate your posting of your opinion on the departures of the different characters and actors from the show. I am actually currently doing my own write-ups on the way the exits went down on the show. Been posting them in the Law & Order subreddit. I think I'll start posting them over here, I was on here in the mid 2010s when it was Previously TV. You guys were always the most knowledgeable and observant crowd when it comes to the online L&O fandom. Still share a lot of the same opinions when it comes to the show as well.

I am finishing my write-up on Mike Logan/Chris Noth's exit right now, probably be done by tonight actually. I'd love it if you and everyone else who contributed regularly on here could give it a read, when you get a chance. In the meantime, idk what the character limit is on here but I will attempt to post my previous entries in the series, Max Greevey thru Ben Stone. Thanks to you and everyone else on here for inspiring me to start writing them. You guys always overanalyzed and loved the show just like I did, and I thank god I stumbled on this forum almost 10 years ago.

[Xeliou66]

I watched Tango today and this is one episode where I have issues with Cutter - it was rather slimy of him to knowingly keep the guy on the jury who was attracted to Connie and to have Connie take the lead on some of the case knowing about the juror’s attraction, Connie was right to be upset with him. Cutter just came off as smug and doing anything to win - this was kind of a trait of Cutter’s at times, though they did tone his smugness down eventually. I don’t really think Cutter broke any rules here but it did reek of being slimy. The case was interesting, two really scummy people in Melinda and Tito, plus another scumbag in the witness who was at the hotel and testified against Melinda. This was Rothenberg’s final appearance, he was always a pretty interesting defense attorney, I thought Rothenberg would’ve had Melinda better prepared so she wouldn’t get upset during Cutter’s cross, but Melinda wasn’t that smart I guess. I liked seeing Jack meet with the Bronx DA - that was interesting.

Betrayal was up next, and as I’ve said before Olivet looked really bad in this episode, I didn’t care the reveal that Olivet slept with a patient that was likely Logan because she looked like a gigantic hypocrite. She really rubbed me the wrong way here, testifying for the defense just because she didn’t like the expert the DA’s called, and Jack was 100% right to tell Cutter about her past. Kind of an odd but pretty good case, with the twist that the victim wasn’t cheating on his wife but was chronicling their relationship, the victim was still sleazy for getting involved with and marrying a patient but he didn’t deserve to die.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Xeliou66

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Tango today and this is one episode where I have issues with Cutter - it was rather slimy of him to knowingly keep the guy on the jury who was attracted to Connie and to have Connie take the lead on some of the case knowing about the juror’s attraction, Connie was right to be upset with him. Cutter just came off as smug and doing anything to win - this was kind of a trait of Cutter’s at times, though they did tone his smugness down eventually. I don’t really think Cutter broke any rules here but it did reek of being slimy. The case was interesting, two really scummy people in Melinda and Tito, plus another scumbag in the witness who was at the hotel and testified against Melinda. This was Rothenberg’s final appearance, he was always a pretty interesting defense attorney, I thought Rothenberg would’ve had Melinda better prepared so she wouldn’t get upset during Cutter’s cross, but Melinda wasn’t that smart I guess. I liked seeing Jack meet with the Bronx DA - that was interesting.

It's not illegal but it's really slimy. I didn't like it either. There's also a chance that he might turn off the other jurors doing that. My guess is Melinda thought she was too smart to get upset during the Cross. I can't see Rothenberg not have warned her about that.

 

Quote

 

Betrayal was up next, and as I’ve said before Olivet looked really bad in this episode, I didn’t care the reveal that Olivet slept with a patient that was likely Logan because she looked like a gigantic hypocrite. She really rubbed me the wrong way here, testifying for the defense just because she didn’t like the expert the DA’s called, and Jack was 100% right to tell Cutter about her past. Kind of an odd but pretty good case, with the twist that the victim wasn’t cheating on his wife but was chronicling their relationship, the victim was still sleazy for getting involved with and marrying a patient but he didn’t deserve to die.

 

I don't like that either. She really does come off as a hypocrite because she went off on another therapist for sleeping with her patient. But at the same time I really can't see Olivet to ever do something like that. We saw her worried about not paying attention to a patient after her rape. I can't someone like that crossing a line and sleeping with a patient. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by andromeda331

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It's not illegal but it's really slimy. I didn't like it either. There's also a chance that he might turn off the other jurors doing that. My guess is Melinda thought she was too smart to get upset during the Cross. I can't see Rothenberg not have warned her about that.

 

I don't like that either. She really does come off as a hypocrite because she went off on another therapist for sleeping with her patient. But at the same time I really can't see Olivet to ever do something like that. We saw her worried about not paying attention to a patient after her rape. I can't someone like that crossing a line and sleeping with a patient. 

Yeah Cutter just wasn’t likable at times, and he was wrong to manipulate Connie in this episode. Sometimes I felt like Cutter would do anything to win and was overly cocky - he just isn’t my favorite, he had good moments and episodes, and I do give him something of a break because it’s impossible to have another character as great as Jack McCoy and Ben Stone were in the lead prosecutor role, but Cutter had some unlikeable traits. Tango was a pretty good episode - a lot of slimy people in it as I said, and it was a good case, but Cutter got on my nerves.

Yeah Olivet looked really bad in Betrayal, because she was strongly condemning sex between a patient and therapist and then we find out she crossed that line herself, it made her look hypocritical and borderline unethical. I do like Olivet overall but this was a really bad episode for her, and it also made her look hypocritical with how she was in the season 3 episode Promises to Keep, pushing for charging the shrink who was sleeping with the murderer patient. I have a feeling Olivet’s relationship with Logan took place before Olivet was assaulted by the creep doctor, probably in season 2 shortly after Greevey’s murder. But Jack was absolutely right to inform Cutter so he could destroy Olivet’s credibility, Olivet was wrong to go to bat for the defense just because she didn’t like the expert the prosecution called.