S02.E07: Knowledge Of Causes, And Secret Motion Of Things

[Amethyst]

On a different subject, I hate Allison so much at this point that it's starting to take me out of the show. I get that her scenes are supposed to be black comedy to lighten things up from Cosima/Helena/Sarah emotionally heavy scenes, but it just doesn't work for me. The way she complained about Aynsley seeming to think of herself as better than Allison and her chirpy "I do feel better" after admitting to letting Aynsley die while Aynsley clawed at the counter and begged for her life came across as sociopathic to me. I had thought the show was going for a storyline of Allison repressing her guilt that was eventually going to culminate in character growth, but now I'm just not sure.

 

Word to your whole post, Zuleikha.  I just couldn't quote it all.  LOL.

 

Allison has to be one of the most self-destructive characters I've ever seen, and I can't root for her in the slightest because all she does is screw up her own life. She takes everything to the extreme (I'll have ten drinks instead of one, and a whole bottle of pills!) and falls apart when it inevitably goes wrong.  The fact that the show is trying to rationalize Aynsley's death because "she was a bitch" is really sickening.  For any of her faults, Aynsley was still a wife and mother and now her kids have to grow up without her.  But whatever, cuz Allison's feelings are more important, right?

Allison should feel regret for what happened to Aynsley, and they just brush it under the rug because of the situation with Vic.  I was hoping that Allison would at least use rehab to finally take some responsibility for her actions, but everyone around her enables her to just screwing up because it's for comic relief.  If she and Felix really are best buddies now, then she needs a good kick in the ass, not a shoulder to cry on, or going "sharesies" on whatever pills she's taking.  The only reason Allison hasn't gotten screwed by her stupid antics is because she has the other clones and Felix to protect her.  Before last week, she was well on her way to losing her children, and she wouldn't have a leg to stand on.  There's a reason that Allison isn't given any real tasks to do beyond what goes on in her little world; she's going to mess them up.  

[hardy har]

Ok, I sound like and Angie apologist, but she didn't go behind Art's back about anything either. Art told her that they would tell their boss about everything by the end of the day and that's what she did.

I mean, I fully see that what she is doing could screw up the clones, but I honestly don't see anything to indicate that she would be all gung-ho about arresting any of them if she did find out what was going on. Which is why I'm still a little puzzled about why Art doesn't give her something to go on other than telling her to drop it.

[possibilities]

I tend to agree that Angie is doing what she's doing for legitimate reasons. She knows something is off about the Beth cover story, and she wants to get to the bottom of it. She thinks she's exposing corruption, and in a way, she is! She's not likable in the way that "allies of our heroes" are always likable, but objectively, I don't really think she's done anything wrong. I think Art has mismanaged the situation from the start, even though I like him. I mean, at least two people have died, one a cop and the other a lookalike who was murdered. She'd be crazy or evil to not be curious and think it worth investigating!

 

I don't even really understand why the clones think it would ruin their lives if it were known that they were clones. If anything, it might protect them, wouldn't it? DYAD and the Prolethians would be exposed. I guess it would attract media attention, but would that really be worse than what Dyad is putting them through now?

[DioxinBlues]

I don't even really understand why the clones think it would ruin their lives if it were known that they were clones. If anything, it might protect them, wouldn't it? DYAD and the Prolethians would be exposed. I guess it would attract media attention, but would that really be worse than what Dyad is putting them through now?

 

 

That may ultimately be what they decide, which I could see Alison hating the idea........until she realized it made her famous and she liked the attention. But I hope that doesn't happen anytime soon. I like the cloak and dagger/mystery tone of the show and "going on Oprah" would blow that to smithereens. 

[shapeshifter]

Ok, I sound like and Angie apologist, but...

...I'm still a little puzzled about why Art doesn't give her something to go on other than telling her to drop it.

Given that people who hang out with the clones have a high mortality rate, maybe he thinks he's protecting her?

I don't even really understand why the clones think it would ruin their lives if it were known that they were clones. If anything, it might protect them, wouldn't it? DYAD and the Prolethians would be exposed. I guess it would attract media attention, but would that really be worse than what Dyad is putting them through now?

Now that you mention it, this makes sense. I suppose the clones have reason to believe that Dyad and the Prolethians have enough friends in high places to thwart any one who would stand up against them in favor of the clones' civil rights.

[jaybear1701]

Which is why I'm still a little puzzled about why Art doesn't give her something to go on other than telling her to drop it.

The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to realize that a good number of the central conflicts this season could be resolved if the characters were just up front with each other instead of keeping secrets. This applies to Angie vs. Art/Cloneclub, Delphine vs. Cosima/Cloneclub, Paul vs. Sarah/Cloneclub, Siobhan vs. Sarah and even Felix vs. Sarah (2x03).

If Art had explained to Angie about the clones, then (ostensibly) she wouldn't be creating so much trouble for Alison (though Art would then have to reveal that he's allowed Katja's murderer to run around free with Sarah). If Delphine had just explained to Cosima that she discovered the stem cells were Kira's (2x06), they could have avoided the lab scene blow up in 2x07. The same goes for Paul and Siobhan and their respective machinations.

Although I enjoy the conflicts-and I can understand each characters' reasons for withholding information (whether out of fear or a desire to protect)--sometimes it makes the drama feel a bit manufactured. But then again, if the characters actually started to communicate more, then I guess there really wouldn't be much of a show left.

[Carrie Ann]

So far the withholding of information works for me because things happen so quickly, and most of these people barely know each other, and I can usually see their motivations for playing things close to the vest. But in the long run, that's going to get old. I hope they start mixing that up by having people be surprisingly honest and direct more often.

[Athena]

I agree that people could share more, but then again, the show and suspense relies heavily on paranoia and conspiracy. Most of the characters are rightfully suspicious and on edge about what is happening around them. Sometimes I do think it's really silly how Cal hasn't been told. I'm really glad Art was brought into it. Angie is just an unnecessary thorn to the Clone Club, but she does represent the actual good cop that's left in the force. I can't fault Angie for basically doing her job. Thankfully, she has not been featured so much.

[Zuleikha]

The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to realize that a good number of the central conflicts this season could be resolved if the characters were just up front with each other instead of keeping secrets.

 

Yes! That's been one of my main complaints.

 

I don't mind the withholding when I understand the character reasons. Delphine withholding from Cosima, I don't mind because a consistent part of Delphine's character has been making decisions about Cosima for Cosima. Delphine seems to be mostly benign and genuine in her love of Cosima, but she's never been trustworthy. Mrs S. and Sarah withholding information from each other, I also don't mind because again, that's an established part of their dynamic. Paul playing both sides sure. That's what he's always done to a degree. I don't care about him as a character because I have no idea who he is as an actual person/character, but at least that's consistent. I've never known and hey, apparently Beth never knew either.

 

But Allison/Donnie, Art/Angie, and Sarah/Cal don't make sense to me. It feels contrived to force a conflict when in the case of Allison/Donnie, there simply wasn't a secret to protect (well, at least Allison thought there wasn't) and in the case of Art/Angie and Sarah/Cal, withholding information creates more problems than it solves.

[DrSpaceman]

Most of the clones are trying to hide because multiple groups seem to be trying to capture them. There could be others we don't even know about yet. ANd as pointed out, the death rate seems high for the clones and their friends/family for various reasons. I can see why they'd prefer secrecy.

Not to mention if even some people aren't after or against them now, if they come out as clones its hard telling what various religous and political groups would do or try to do to them

[millahnna]

Plus in show universe there's that pesky patent that, in real world terms, might not hold up in a court of law but, in show universe, might cause them significant legal troubles.  An analogy to some of the hypotheticals I'm imagining might be how a person who beats the crap out of a U.S. military member can actually be charged with damage to government property.  So say Sarah settles down to be a good mom but signs Kira up for summer football camp where she gets tackled and has a bunch of broken bones but is basically ok.  Boom, have a lawsuit for endangering corporate property (assuming Sarah's patent tag has passed onto Kira, I guess).  Or Cosima decides to go skydiving, or Allison's acting career takes off and she gets cast in a film with stunts that Dyad thinks are too risky, etc.

 

Honestly, it almost doesn't even matter if such hypotheticals are realistic.  From the clones' perspectives, they probably seem like valid possibilities.  Plus you have to figure that any organization that is capable of the extreme secrecy Dyad has shown so far likely has a few aces up their sleeves regarding the legal status of the clones (or at least the clones have to figure that). 

[SomeTameGazelle]

Is it weird that I need Cal to have done something bad? He is just right now too much of a good guy for me to actually really get a feel for him and find him interesting in on this show. Pretty much all the other players operate in the grey zone, and at times do questionable things, so he just seems boring in comparison. The actor does a fine job, but it seems like he was just introduced so Sarah would have a babysitter for some episodes.

 

 

Cal is an enormous relief to me because I find Paul so unbearably dull all the time. There is enough else going on that I don't need to know anything more about him at this point -- it feels to me like they have sprinkled in just enough information to suggest that there will be more to him than we have seen so far, but it may not be directly tied to DYAD so it would just be a distraction to go more into it for us. (I haven't seen beyond this episode yet so maybe this changes.) But even when Paul is shown to sometimes do good things and sometimes do bad things, the character just doesn't hold any interest for me.

[Haleth]

"He looks like he was molested by elves." I love Felix.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Haleth

[Danny Franks]

So I've just watched this episode, in my manic catch up session, and Sarah-as-Alison is cracking my shit up. The perkiness is so obviously fake, when compared to it seeming genuine when it's Alison herself. I love that the clones are all such convincing mimics, and manage to pick up on stuff that bugs them about the others, to copy them. And there was the tiny little slip of "and I'm being Alison being Donnie?" It was all just one pretence too far for poor Sarah.

 

And Alison herself? I love her 'I saw this on NYPD Blue' understanding of "finks and rats and snitches and fuzz", and the innate ability she seems to have to plot all manner of crimes, from tying up and interrogating her husband, to buying guns from drug dealers, to trying to dispose of unconscious bodies.

 

Felix is just such a rock, for both of them. I love how he always comes through in a pinch, even though he's really not suited to a life of subterfuge and deceit.

 

I've always found that serious dramatic shows do comedy so much better than most sitcoms, and this episode was a perfect example of that. All the best comedic elements of the show in one episode, with Sarah/Alison, Felix, Vic and Donnie, and Detective Whosits struggling to keep up. But it can still turn serious at the drop of a hat, with Rachel being reunited with her father and Donnie getting the "I'm gonna do something really stupid" expression of resolution. Then the return to the darkest of dark farce, with Donnie pulling a Vincent Vega.

[madam magpie]

On 6/1/2014 at 10:22 AM, possibilities said:

When Cosima was in the stirrups, they were waiting for an epidural to take effect. That's why they were playing the "can you feel this?" game. Yes, it was playful but I also thought both characters looked terrified, so Delphine was trying to lighten the mood and also provide some comfort. It's not even without some scientific foundation, because it's been shown that women in labor relax more if you hold their hands, rub their skin, and sometimes it is in fact recommended to kiss (depending on what school of labor coaching you subscribe to). There is an oxytocin/relaxation effect that comes from that kind of affectionate contact. So Delphine was, essentially, trying to help Cosima relax. She wasn't in labor, but it's a similar type of situation. I didn't get the sense they were getting hot over the operation, just that they were being loving.

Suuuuuuuuuper late to this party, but this is exactly how I see it. I didn't find this exchange sexual or creepy or inappropriate at all. Cosima was trying to be tough, but she was very scared. Delphine was doing everything she could to help her relax: she stayed calm, was very gentle and quiet, tried to distract Cosima, touched her, explained every step, and was very compassionate and loving. She also never let go of Cosima's hand. And it worked for a moment or two as Delphine refocused Cosima's attention onto her instead of on the "scary procedure we're trying or else you'll die." When Delphine said that the epidural had taken effect and they were going to start, Cosima almost looked surprised, and then the tears came. I found the whole exchange extremely touching, and it's one of the scenes that cemented for me just how deeply Delphine loves Cosima.

Edited October 7, 2016 by madam magpie