Mad Men - General Discussion

[Guest]

I'm up to Season 6 in my rewatch before it goes off Netflix.  

I really liked Season 7 Joan, so I had started liking her character better in hindsight, but my full rewatch has reminded me how much I dislike her character. She's mean, selfish, vindictive, and just horrible to almost every other character overall.  Yet she views herself as such a victim for many of her plotlines.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 hours ago, deaja said:

I'm up to Season 6 in my rewatch before it goes off Netflix.  

I really liked Season 7 Joan, so I had started liking her character better in hindsight, but my full rewatch has reminded me how much I dislike her character. She's mean, selfish, vindictive, and just horrible to almost every other character overall.  Yet she views herself as such a victim for many of her plotlines.

Early Joan was such a bitch to the rest of the female staff.  There are a lot of aspects of Joan that I like and her loathing of Harry was completely justified, but she did not have to be so mean to the rest of her underlings.  And I do think she viewed the rest of the secretaries as her underlings.  She knew to turn on the charm with people above her, but treated everyone else like shit.  

I am almost finished with my rewatch.  I have 2 episode left.  This time around, I am finding I like Megan more.  I think it has to do with knowing how it ends and not getting caught up with the games Matthew Weiner played back when season 6 aired and the lead up the the final season.  I could forget the whole Megan as Sharon Tate teasing that he did.  Megan living in California was not as ominous this time.  That being said, I do wish her last appearance would have been her phone call with Don in Waterloo.  I didn't need her and her family reappearing in New York.  The show did a pretty good job establishing that Megan's talent was middling at best, her lunch with Harry was unnecessary.  Her final scene with Don took away the dignity and maturity she showed in Waterloo.  

[sistermagpie]

5 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Early Joan was such a bitch to the rest of the female staff.  There are a lot of aspects of Joan that I like and her loathing of Harry was completely justified, but she did not have to be so mean to the rest of her underlings.  And I do think she viewed the rest of the secretaries as her underlings.  She knew to turn on the charm with people above her, but treated everyone else like shit.  

I am almost finished with my rewatch.  I have 2 episode left.  This time around, I am finding I like Megan more.  I think it has to do with knowing how it ends and not getting caught up with the games Matthew Weiner played back when season 6 aired and the lead up the the final season.  I could forget the whole Megan as Sharon Tate teasing that he did.  Megan living in California was not as ominous this time.  That being said, I do wish her last appearance would have been her phone call with Don in Waterloo.  I didn't need her and her family reappearing in New York.  The show did a pretty good job establishing that Megan's talent was middling at best, her lunch with Harry was unnecessary.  Her final scene with Don took away the dignity and maturity she showed in Waterloo.  

I can see both sides with that ending scene. On one hand I really expected it to be Megan's last scene in Waterloo because that would have been a much neater ending, but I can see why the show wanted it to go beyond that into things getting messy so not only did Roger run into Megan's mom again but Don saw himself as having made another woman angry and bitter. It was pretty in character for Megan to come across as mature when she was feeling good about herself and lash out and get immature when she'd been hit with insecurity again (though the Harry scene wasn't necessary for that).

Re: Sharon Tate, I thought that was all on the internet and MW and the show never really did anything to promote that theory, which I couldn't even really make sense of because Megan is obviously not Sharon Tate and Sharon Tate would exist in her world that same as she did in ours. So the whole Manson connection thing just seemed like a byproduct of us watching the show in the 21st century and bringing our own associations with it. The only time I saw a direct foreshadowing of the murders was when Megan says the sound in the canyons near her house is weird, but that was foreshadowing on the level of Joan's bloody dress in GWiAA. The thing's going to happen, but it's not going to happen to any of our characters (it'll just affect them along with the rest of the country).

Edited June 4, 2020 by sistermagpie

[Old Man Neil]

On 5/30/2020 at 2:37 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I just finished season 6 today and started season 7.  I forgot how loathsome Ted is.  From stringing Peggy along for months, to showing up at her place telling her he was leaving his wife for her, to his need to constantly one up Don, to his assholish behavior to Don right before the Hersheys pitch, what an asshole and a coward.

I love this comment. 

On the surface, he seemed like a nice guy, but his actions were thoroughly reprehensible. No wonder he cringed when he thought Peggy was going to say he was nice. People mistook him for nice his whole life.

Duck Phillips was more of a gentleman to Peggy. Well, maybe not, but it was close. 

 

[Ohiopirate02]

14 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I can see both sides with that ending scene. On one hand I really expected it to be Megan's last scene in Waterloo because that would have been a much neater ending, but I can see why the show wanted it to go beyond that into things getting messy so not only did Roger run into Megan's mom again but Don saw himself as having made another woman angry and bitter. It was pretty in character for Megan to come across as mature when she was feeling good about herself and lash out and get immature when she'd been hit with insecurity again (though the Harry scene wasn't necessary for that).

Re: Sharon Tate, I thought that was all on the internet and MW and the show never really did anything to promote that theory, which I couldn't even really make sense of because Megan is obviously not Sharon Tate and Sharon Tate would exist in her world that same as she did in ours. So the whole Manson connection thing just seemed like a byproduct of us watching the show in the 21st century and bringing our own associations with it. The only time I saw a direct foreshadowing of the murders was when Megan says the sound in the canyons near her house is weird, but that was foreshadowing on the level of Joan's bloody dress in GWiAA. The thing's going to happen, but it's not going to happen to any of our characters (it'll just affect them along with the rest of the country).

The creators of Mad Men including MW knew what they were doing when wardrobe put Megan in a tshirt that was a direct homage to Sharon Tate.  Janie Bryant, the head costume designer of the show, even admitted it.  The wardrobe, hair, and makeup of a show like Mad Men was deliberate.  Shoot, they are all deliberate in every show.  They give insight into the characters.  The show never went into that direction, but the internet debate did not spring up out of nowhere.  

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The creators of Mad Men including MW knew what they were doing when wardrobe put Megan in a tshirt that was a direct homage to Sharon Tate.  Janie Bryant, the head costume designer of the show, even admitted it.  The wardrobe, hair, and makeup of a show like Mad Men was deliberate.  Shoot, they are all deliberate in every show.  They give insight into the characters.  The show never went into that direction, but the internet debate did not spring up out of nowhere.  

But what she admitted was that she was fully aware of the photo shoot where Sharon Tate wore the tee-shirt and that MW had wanted Megan to be in something political and she thought that was a great match.

There's certainly things that are similar between Sharon Tate and Megan that make her a fitting fashion inspiration, but there's a difference between acknowledging that and the theory that a character who's a French Canadian ad exec's wife who wants to be an actress and doesn't want to be pregnant is somehow Sharon Tate, a woman with a completely different life and husband and will meet the same fate. That would be like saying that because Joan's in that bloody dress she was going to somehow wind up sitting beside JFK in that car instead of Jackie Kennedy. Or that Joan would commit suicide and Betty would drive off a cliff because their looks were just as obviously inspired by Marilyn Monroe and Grace Kelly.

(Heh--I was going to note that Sharon Tate's look isn't even as iconic compared to either of theirs and then I realized that was even more fitting for Megan.)

10 hours ago, Old Man Neil said:

On the surface, he seemed like a nice guy, but his actions were thoroughly reprehensible. No wonder he cringed when he thought Peggy was going to say he was nice. People mistook him for nice his whole life.

It just occurs to me that his composition with Don is a lot like his affair with Peggy. In both cases he's really really aggressive about going after them and declaring he's going to win etc., and then he winds up doing a total 180 when it counts.

[Old Man Neil]

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

It just occurs to me that his composition with Don is a lot like his affair with Peggy. In both cases he's really really aggressive about going after them and declaring he's going to win etc., and then he winds up doing a total 180 when it counts.

Yeah, he was a real yo yo. I stumbled on this conversation from The Hollywood Reporter. I would love to know what Matt told Kevin after the table read. 

A lot of people are talking about that look Ted shot Don as he was fleeing McCann. Did you know any significance about it at the time?

Matt gave me an amazing note that I'm not sure I can share yet. He told me exactly what that moment was. But I think I'll have to call you after the finale. When I read it, it didn't seem like much, but Matt told me what it meant after the table read and gave me very a specific idea. I think it's too revealing.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/mad-men-star-kevin-rahm-794433

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Old Man Neil said:

Yeah, he was a real yo yo. I stumbled on this conversation from The Hollywood Reporter. I would love to know what Matt told Kevin after the table read. 

A lot of people are talking about that look Ted shot Don as he was fleeing McCann. Did you know any significance about it at the time?

Matt gave me an amazing note that I'm not sure I can share yet. He told me exactly what that moment was. But I think I'll have to call you after the finale. When I read it, it didn't seem like much, but Matt told me what it meant after the table read and gave me very a specific idea. I think it's too revealing.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/mad-men-star-kevin-rahm-794433

NOW I'M DYING TO KNOW!!!

Iirc, I took it as Ted realizing Don was always gonna Don while Ted himself was perfectly happy being one of many at McCann. But now Ted was no longer fooling himself that they were in the same league, sort of. He no longer needed to be Don, because he was content to be himself.

[Old Man Neil]

19 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

NOW I'M DYING TO KNOW!!!

Iirc, I took it as Ted realizing Don was always gonna Don while Ted himself was perfectly happy being one of many at McCann. But now Ted was no longer fooling himself that they were in the same league, sort of. He no longer needed to be Don, because he was content to be himself.

Same here! But then I remembered, I'm not a big fan of showrunners explaining every last little thing about their product. Takes some of the mystery out of it.

I agree with your interpretation of the scene. In fact, I think you nailed it. 

 

[Old Man Neil]

In the spirit of Mad Magazine’s feature, Scenes We’d Like to See, I thought of a Mad Men scene I'd like to see: Don takes Peggy shopping for books at the Strand. It could be in The Hobo Code.

He recommends On the Road. She’s already read it.

“I’m impressed. Here’s one I bet you haven’t read.” He hands her a hardcover copy of Thieves Like Us by Edward Anderson. “This was made into the 1948 movie They Live by Night. It’s one of my favorites.”

“Who was in it?”

“Nobody famous. Farley Granger. Cathy O’Donnell plays a young woman who falls for an escaped convict.”

“Wasn’t she the girl who played Wilma in The Best Years of Our Lives.”

“You’re good, Peggy.” She beams and practically skips down the aisle.

Don points out a book called Waiting for Nothing by Tom Kromer. “It’s one of the great books to come out of the depression. What it was like for the homeless, the nightly fight for food and shelter.”

They come to a table stocked with books by Ayn Rand.

“What do you know about her?”

“Well, she’s Burt Cooper’s favorite author. In fact, he told me to buy a copy of Atlas Shrugged, today. I tried reading it once. It bored the living daylights out of me. But I didn’t tell him that.”

“How come she’s not in politics? I can just see her face on a campaign political button.”

“Can you now?” Don says. “Maybe you could put a little magnet inside each one and sell them as refrigerator magnets.”

“That’s a great idea. I could become a very wealthy refrigerator magnet magnate.”

“Ayn Rand would approve.”

They are giggling as they move to the checkout counter, and Don buys her the two books he recommended.

 

[LemonSoda]

Adding that if anyone is looking to buy the series, iTunes often has the entire series for less than $30. 

[Luckylyn]

I always wanted a scene between Don and Peggy’s mother after “The Suitcase” when Peggy told Don her mother hated him because she assumed he was the father of her baby.  

Edited June 8, 2020 by Luckylyn

[txhorns79]

43 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

I always wanted a scene between Don and Peggy’s mother after “The Suitcase” when Peggy told Don her mother hated him because he assumed he was the father of her baby.  

I always wanted a scene between Peggy and her mother after she broke up with Abe.  After Mrs. Olsen telling Peggy that Abe would just use her for practice, and move on, I'd have liked to see her reaction to being told Peggy stabbed him with a spear.

[Luckylyn]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I always wanted a scene between Peggy and her mother after she broke up with Abe.  After Mrs. Olsen telling Peggy that Abe would just use her for practice, and move on, I'd have liked to see her reaction to being told Peggy stabbed him with a spear.

That would have been really interesting.  

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I always wanted a scene between Peggy and her mother after she broke up with Abe.  After Mrs. Olsen telling Peggy that Abe would just use her for practice, and move on, I'd have liked to see her reaction to being told Peggy stabbed him with a spear.

Would this scene happen before or after Peggy finally got that cat?  

[Umbelina]

On 1/2/2020 at 12:46 PM, atlantaloves said:

HOLY DOO DOO MAD BALLS! Boy, she really was a pain in the butt wasn't she? She made me cringe, but not as much as the elementary school teacher he shagged in season three, she was uber boring.

She was a bit boring, but you just reminded me of something.  They just DROPPED that story, Don, who was so "in love" was suddenly free to be with  her, or at least have sex with her, whenever he wanted to.  He was oh so lonely, but it never occurred to him to call her?  I mean, I get it, apparently he was jolted out of his "love haze" but seriously?  

Anyway, props to her, because it led to one of the best scenes ever on the show, the confrontation between Betty and Don, while she waited in the car.

On 2/21/2020 at 4:40 PM, voiceover said:

Rewatching "A Tale of Two Cities", and remembering what I like best about it: the scene with Stan, Ginsberg, and Bob -- Stan's called Bob in to talk down a panicked Ginsberg.

I wonder if those three made it through without cracking up at least once!  They're so perfect together.  In the initial viewing, it was the first & only time I ever liked Bob.

I loved Ginsberg on the show, the actor did a fabulous job.  Even though an update would have probably been bleak, I longed for one.  I'm still not quite sure if he was adopted or the biological son of that wonderful man.  

On 4/13/2020 at 10:10 AM, Cementhead said:

I just finished watching this series for the very first time on Netflix yesterday afternoon.  I am still trying to digest it all a day later.  I described this show as 'a journey' to my husband, who didn't watch it with me.  It was a slow burn for me and I didn't really feel invested until Episode #10 of the 1st season.  I went on to enjoy every moment I spent with these characters; especially Peggy Olsen, and I was grateful for the hours worth of distraction.

I couldn't wait to come here to see what other viewers thought of the last season; namely the last episode.  I was really disappointed in both.  I knew that the finale ended with the famous Coke commercial because of course, when the series ended back in 2015 it made the news and was a big deal at the time. 

And so I had what I thought was a logical scenario in my mind that would get the show to that ending the entire time I was watching.  I always assumed that in the end, Don comes up with the most successful and famous ad campaign of all time.  But in my scenario, it most certainly did not involve separating Don from the rest of the cast whom  I was also greatly invested in to send him on a road trip to meet up with a bunch of random nobody characters who meant nothing to me other than to suck up precious screen time that could have been spent on the characters that mattered the most to me as a viewer.  I will also include Diana in this category.  Every second spent on Diana was a second squandered and I hated every minute of that story line.

So, my question to you all, the viewers who watched this show in real time is this:  How did the last episode go over with fans at the time?  Was it loved?  Or hated?  I plan on going on a google search to read up on it but wanted to ask you guys here. 

HATED IT!  

They wasted so much of the season on strangers, and I thought the coke ad was trite and predictable.  They also had so many bait and switch things going on (Ooooo lookie, Megan in Sharon Tate's T shirt, and living in the canyons, and even a Manson look alike at one of her parties!) and instead we get "Don's road trip."  Boo.  Hiss.  Still angry.

On 5/23/2020 at 6:03 PM, Billina said:

I've been rewatching in quarantine, and I wanted to say that I don't think Jessica Paré is a bad actress, at all.  I know that was the opinion of the majority when the show first aired, but I never shared it.  I get who Megan is, and I think JP played her well.  I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I wanted to say it, again.  I always feel this need to stick up for Megan/JP.  I know I can't be the only one. 😉

I always liked Megan, and her storyline.  She was a logical choice for Don, and it clicked for him when she comforted Sally.  Boss marries the secretary who is half his age.  Shocker.

On 5/24/2020 at 1:01 PM, txhorns79 said:

I didn't mind how quickly Don proposed to Megan.  It felt entirely in character for him.  I did feel like that the writers weren't completely sure what to do with Megan once she quit SCDP.  She goes from being a massive presence in the 5th season to someone much more secondary in Season 6 & 7.  I did appreciate that she wasn't just a variation of Betty, but I didn't really relate to her as a character once it became all about her acting struggles.         

Her acting career was one of the things I liked about her story.  It created the inevitable tension as Don's little Barbie Doll had the nerve to have a mind and desires of her own.  I liked the rich-girl embarrassment and privilege she had being shown as well.  When she stooped to betraying her friend, and asking favors of her husband to get that commercial, her flaws and complications were interesting to me.  Shows can't have happy couples, they are boring, in that way, Mad Men followed the herd.

On 5/26/2020 at 3:56 AM, deaja said:

I never minded Megan as much as most fans. I know a lot of fans (here or TWOP? Unsure on the timeline) thought she was disingenuous for saying she wanted to learn about advertising when her dream was really to be an actress, but I thought that was fairly realistic. A lot of people have dream careers that they realize they can’t have and move on happily to a second, third, fourth choice. But then when she had a wealthy husband and didn’t have to worry about things like actually making a living, she decided to give her big dream a chance. 
 

I think her character got worse as the series went on, but I think Don’s treatment of her did as well, and that was why.

I don't think she was disingenuous.  She had an artistic personality, so of course she would lean toward the creative side of advertising over getting coffee, filing, and typing.  I think we watched her realize that it was only a substitute for what she really wanted to do, acting.  Still as her mom said "not every little girl can be a ballerina."  I doubt she found any real success at acting, probably remained a rich dabbler, taking classes and trying to be good.

On 5/26/2020 at 9:03 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

 

I'm currently rewatching this, and just started season 6.  Knowing how it all ends helps to see the nuance in the characters I didn't catch when it aired.  Megan is not bothering me as much because I can now see how badly Don treats her from the jump.  Don makes the same mistakes with Megan as he did with Betty, and it is interesting to see how she reacts differently.  Because Don never really confronted why his marriage to Betty fell apart.  It was easier for him to think Betty left him over the whole Dick Whitman thing and not his controlling behavior or his affairs.  Even then Betty was willing to overlook the affairs as long as they happened in Manhattan (or on a business trip) and did not interfere with their life.  

I see why Don wanted to marry Megan and thought himself in love with her.  Don is a shit dad and needed a partner to take care of his kids when he had them.  Dude couldn't even handle every other weekend.  Then Don heard Megan wanted to try being a copywriter, and he envisioned a future where his work-wife was actually his wife.  They get married and he just dumps Megan into Peggy's lap to deal with.  Of course, Megan worked only when Don wanted her to work.  I get why Megan wanted an out from that work environment.  I do think the groundwork was laid in seasons 4 and 5 that Megan was not completely honest with what she wanted.  A running theme of this show is that what you think you want is not really what you want.  Megan put aside her childish dreams of being an actress, but she still wants it.  She was lying to herself and Don in Tomorrowland when she said she had given up on that dream.  I do think, though, that a better actress would have been able to portray this clearer.  

Unpopular opinion here, I think Megan is just as childish and immature if not more as Betty.  I know Don needs to be called out for his controlling behavior, but her hissy fit in the Howard Johnsons was not the way to do it.  

Don has a type.

On 5/26/2020 at 12:17 PM, txhorns79 said:

Eh, I thought most of the characters on the show were "good" in the sense that none of them appeared inherently bad.  They may have done bad things, but there was no one I could think of who just was a bad person.   

The Jaguar Guy.

Pete's dad was no prize either.  Don's dad was a nightmare, and his stepdad possibly worse.  That asshole who insulted Joan, actually both of them, at the new job in the last season deserve a mention as well.

As others have said, also rapist Greg, and Lou Garner.

On 5/26/2020 at 2:09 PM, sistermagpie said:

At the time it surprised me that so many people seemed to think that she was either genuinely into advertising or lying about it when it seemed so clearly laid out to me that she wasn't lying about being into advertising, but also wasn't into it. She was telling the truth in the moment when she said she wanted to be like Don and Peggy, but the fact that she was having sex with Don after barely a minute of Don's lesson about copywriting made it clear that it wasn't real. And when she said she didn't want to be an actress in S4 it seemed like it was telegraphing that yes, she really did. But she didn't think she could be.

But once you don't have to worry about where the show might be going with Megan, she's really fine.

 

Yes, only maybe Lou Garner, Jr. seemed to have a taste for cruelty. With everybody else even at their worst they didn't seem like just fundamentally bad people. But the show wasn't afraid to show them being terrible or weak or pathetic in the moment.

Sometimes it seemed like a lot was made of Megan being so different from Betty, but a lot of it seemed as much about the time she was born into as Megan herself. That is, yes, Megan had no problem speaking bluntly about Don being a cheater, but ultimately there's nothing about the way she handles her marriage to Don (which is much shorter) compared to Betty that's particularly mature, imo. Betty had a more childish affect about her, but Megan's also got a youthfulness about her that other characters don't--like Peggy, who's the same age as Megan. Megan just has more of a co-ed vibe than a little girl vibe.

Are we honestly faulting Megan for having sex here?  It was the sixties, everyone was having sex, and Cosmo was encouraging young women in the office to bang their bosses.  😉  

Ditto on Lou Garner, disgusting man.

On 5/27/2020 at 11:44 AM, sistermagpie said:

Oh god, Greg. He was such a great example of how a weak person can be so dangerous. It was almost scary to think of him married to Joan who was so much more capable--and no surprise that he had no trouble abandoning what he thought was his child.

Two of my favorite lines on the show are Joan summing up Greg. At the end when Roger asks if he knows Kevin isn't his (to explain why he pretends he doesn't exist) Joan just says, "No. He's just a terrible, terrible person."

And then one of my favorite lines ever when she gets rid of him: "I"m glad the army makes you feel like a man. Because I'm sick of trying to do it."

You know he was a total Frank Burns over there.

Also agree on Jim Cutler. I think on Mad Style they even pointed out how he was intentionally dressed and styled as a predator.

Waited so long to hear Joan say that to him, and to confront him about the rape!  Such a great pay off.

On 5/27/2020 at 5:37 PM, Billina said:

I hated Stan in season four, but he grew on me.  By the end, I was glad he and Peggy ended up together.  I like seeing little moments on rewatch where their relationship develops in a slow, natural sort of way.  It's a lot different from the couples who get engaged five minutes after meeting each other.

I used to say "There is falling in love, and then there is 'walking into love.'"  Peggy and Stan walked into it.

On 5/28/2020 at 6:04 AM, Athena said:

Yes, Pete's arc rivalled Don for being one of the most interesting on the show for me. Pete is such a little shit for so much of the show. Vincent Kartheiser's performance is underrated because he really takes Pete to the edge of being abhorrent. There are many pathetic Pete moments which are played comedically and tragically. Even Pete had predatory moments too, but the acting and writing somehow -- not redeemed exactly -- made the character work. He did have moments of thoughtfulness, sincerity, and he did have business acumen throughout. I was genuinely satisfied for Pete at the end of the show. He had begun to mature and turn a corner. 

Hands down, Pete was my favorite character on the show.  I can't remember being bored with him once.  Annoyed?  As he would say "occasionally."  Bored?  NEVER.  I'm so happy he got a happy ending, both on the show, and in real life.  

When he was having an affair with the character played by Alexis Bledel?  I remember thinking "those two belong together."  I'm not much of a shipper, if at all, but to me, they were just magic on screen.  When I heard they had married, it was so...logical, because they just seemed to fit.  I still don't know if I loved that storyline more because of the fabulous acting, or because there was such chemistry.  

Seeing him board that plane with his wife and daughter, heading off to a life of both peaceful suburbia and traveling the world?  Perfection.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Whenever I see Jon Hamm, I miss Don...lol. I’m not sure why. Even though I loved his character, he was a real jerk....disturbing in many ways. It may be time for a re-watch. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Whenever I see Jon Hamm, I miss Don...lol. I’m not sure why. Even though I loved his character, he was a real jerk....disturbing in many ways. It may be time for a re-watch. 

I hope you own your own copy because after Wednesday it is no longer available for streaming on Netflix. And, no other platform has announced getting it.

[SunnyBeBe]

24 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I hope you own your own copy because after Wednesday it is no longer available for streaming on Netflix. And, no other platform has announced getting it.

It’s going to be a long night.    Lol

[Umbelina]

45 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I hope you own your own copy because after Wednesday it is no longer available for streaming on Netflix. And, no other platform has announced getting it.

I own my own DVD's but honestly, it's a show I have a hard time re-watching.  Certain episodes?  Oh yes!  Watching it in order?  It just doesn't have the same effect that watching it the first time did.  Other shows?  I love doing that, but this one?  Not so much.  As for season 6?  I FF'd through all of the Don stuff, except his breakdown by the phone at EST, and any phone conversations he had with the people mostly left out of the final season, Peggy and Sally are the only ones really.  I'm also EXTREMELY uncomfortable at the new business (deja vu for me) so, other than Roger getting Joan out of there, and Peggy's wonderful strut?  pass...  

The good parts of season 6 probably boil down to less than an hour, with the characters Weiner decided to ignore, while Don went walkabout.  I didn't even care about Don, because I was SO ANNOYED with the people eating up screen time that I didn't give one shit about.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Umbelina

[Old Man Neil]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I always wanted a scene between Peggy and her mother after she broke up with Abe.  After Mrs. Olsen telling Peggy that Abe would just use her for practice, and move on, I'd have liked to see her reaction to being told Peggy stabbed him with a spear.

"That's my girl!!!"

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

She was a bit boring, but you just reminded me of something.  They just DROPPED that story, Don, who was so "in love" was suddenly free to be with  her, or at least have sex with her, whenever he wanted to.  He was oh so lonely, but it never occurred to him to call her?  I mean, I get it, apparently he was jolted out of his "love haze" but seriously?  

Yeah, I think that was really telegraphing something about Don, if we didn't already get it. I think there was even a commentary where some other write said to MW that what Don said to her in that last phone call, to them, was obviously Don breaking up with her too. It's like as soon as things got complicated and it *wasn't* a fairy tale he just couldn't deal and she became just another woman.

It's just really stunning, and presumably it's intentional. He has this whole passionate thing with this woman and then it's like she never existed. Ultimately Bobbie Barrett seemed to make more of an impression on the show.

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Are we honestly faulting Megan for having sex here?  It was the sixties, everyone was having sex, and Cosmo was encouraging young women in the office to bang their bosses.  😉  

Not at all! I just think the scene was showing that advertising really didn't hold Megan's focus that much. She wasn't lying about it when she said she wanted to learn about it, imo--I don't think she just used that as an excuse to be alone with Don and sleep with him. But very quickly the conversation drifted to Megan's life and things she'd done etc. It happened to end in sex, but even if it hadn't it wasn't a scene about copywriting, you know? She just came across to me as more wanting to be interested in advertising than actually being interested in it--or maybe it's more like when she said she wanted to do what Peggy did, without realizing it she meant she wanted to play Peggy in the movie version.

I do really love her as a character with an artistic personality who isn't an artist. Now that the show's over I can see more how she fits into all the themes of the show beyond just being one of Don's fantasy women who disappoints him by turning out to be a real person. Also you so rarely see people on TV who are just not that good at what they do, especially when it comes to performing. They tend to be either laughably bad or fantastic. But being mediocre (and the potential reasons for that) was something this show took really seriously and I love that.

 

 

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I think that was really telegraphing something about Don, if we didn't already get it. I think there was even a commentary where some other write said to MW that what Don said to her in that last phone call, to them, was obviously Don breaking up with her too. It's like as soon as things got complicated and it *wasn't* a fairy tale he just couldn't deal and she became just another woman.

It's just really stunning, and presumably it's intentional. He has this whole passionate thing with this woman and then it's like she never existed. Ultimately Bobbie Barrett seemed to make more of an impression on the show.

Maybe, but I think Weiner just wanted Don single so he could live out his sexual fantasies through his character of Don, and keep the handsome tall guy miserable too.

More and more, as the show went on, I felt it was kind of a creepy traipse through Weiner's mind.  

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Not at all! I just think the scene was showing that advertising really didn't hold Megan's focus that much. She wasn't lying about it when she said she wanted to learn about it, imo--I don't think she just used that as an excuse to be alone with Don and sleep with him. But very quickly the conversation drifted to Megan's life and things she'd done etc. It happened to end in sex, but even if it hadn't it wasn't a scene about copywriting, you know? She just came across to me as more wanting to be interested in advertising than actually being interested in it--or maybe it's more like when she said she wanted to do what Peggy did, without realizing it she meant she wanted to play Peggy in the movie version.

I do really love her as a character with an artistic personality who isn't an artist. Now that the show's over I can see more how she fits into all the themes of the show beyond just being one of Don's fantasy women who disappoints him by turning out to be a real person. Also you so rarely see people on TV who are just not that good at what they do, especially when it comes to performing. They tend to be either laughably bad or fantastic. But being mediocre (and the potential reasons for that) was something this show took really seriously and I love that.

 

 

One thing that stood out to me on my rewatch of season 5, Megan was always Don's wife first and copywriter second.  Everyone else on the team went into the office at 9am and Megan waltzed in with Don whenever he was ready to go to work.  She also left when Don was ready to leave.  Megan knew she wasn't really part of the team.  And then there's the trip upstate to the Howard Johnson's where Don demanded Megan leave work.  He never realized the position he kept putting Megan in and the work that was consistently dropped into Peggy's lap to suit Don's whims.  This was never going to work long-term, and Megan knew that.  She was unhappy as a copywriter because of Don, and she began to dream again about being an actress.  She pushed that dream down when she was a secretary for practical reasons, but those reasons fell away when she married a man who could pay the bills.  Her desire to be an actress was always there.  I get why she had to try again, and I think Don also understood.  I do wish that Don would have stuck to his guns about casting Megan in the Butler shoe commercial.  He was right in that instance.  Megan needed to earn her career as an actress through her own talents and hard work.  

[SunnyBeBe]

The more I read here, the more I wonder if I would have the patience for it again.  lol

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I get why she had to try again, and I think Don also understood.  I do wish that Don would have stuck to his guns about casting Megan in the Butler shoe commercial.  He was right in that instance.  Megan needed to earn her career as an actress through her own talents and hard work. 

In a way, it was similar with copy writing. She got that job because Don made her a junior copy writer to have her at work with him. Not that Megan was incapable of doing the job, but she was never a regular employee and was never being judged just on her work--when she did come up with just the right campaign Don just saw her as magic instead of a good copy writer. (And that great idea didn't mean she would be one longterm.)

The situation and Don contributed to it all, but Megan also never, imo, had the confidence to fight for herself as a copy writer.

[atlantaloves]

I know this question is crazy, but anybody up for a Mad Men movie? I am still not over the fact they never made a real movie from the series "24".....  I need this. 

[Old Man Neil]

2 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

I know this question is crazy, but anybody up for a Mad Men movie? I am still not over the fact they never made a real movie from the series "24".....  I need this. 

Matthew Weiner should drop his other projects and get to work on this immediately. 

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

I know this question is crazy, but anybody up for a Mad Men movie? I am still not over the fact they never made a real movie from the series "24".....  I need this. 

I’d be open to it.  Wouldn’t all the characters be rather old now? Except for Sally her siblings and other child characters. 
 

I ended up watching the series finale only.  I really liked seeing it again. 
 

[Old Man Neil]

Just now, SunnyBeBe said:

I’d be open to it.  Wouldn’t all the characters be rather old now? Except for Sally her siblings and other child characters. 

It wouldn't have to be set in the present day. 

[SunnyBeBe]

15 minutes ago, Old Man Neil said:

It wouldn't have to be set in the present day. 

Of course.  

[VCRTracking]

One of the things I liked about the show is they never had exterior shots of buildings. It was a cost saving thing but I liked how you never actually saw the outside world beyond the rooms the character inhabited. I also liked how it cut immediately from one scene to another and you'd have to wonder for a moment where you were. I don't think you could do  a theatrical movie without exteriors. The tendency is to open up the space. Although, one of my favorite films, TOPSY TURVY, Mike Leigh's movie about Gilbert & Sullivan, didn't have exteriors either, but that was unusual for a period costume film.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

One of the things I liked about the show is they never had exterior shots of buildings. It was a cost saving thing but I liked how you never actually saw the outside world beyond the rooms the character inhabited. I also liked how it cut immediately from one scene to another and you'd have to wonder for a moment where you were. I don't think you could do  a theatrical movie without exteriors. The tendency is to open up the space. Although, one of my favorite films, TOPSY TURVY, Mike Leigh's movie about Gilbert & Sullivan, didn't have exteriors either, but that was unusual for a period costume film.

I recently watched the movie that Jon Hamm was in about NASA.  I couldn't figure out what year it was, because the cars looked pretty average, however, there were no cell phones. Plus, there were some men's hairstyles and clothes that looked dated, but, other than that, it was pretty good.  I'm estimating 1990's.

[VCRTracking]

34 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I recently watched the movie that Jon Hamm was in about NASA.  I couldn't figure out what year it was, because the cars looked pretty average, however, there were no cell phones. Plus, there were some men's hairstyles and clothes that looked dated, but, other than that, it was pretty good.  I'm estimating 1990's.

Was it that movie with Natalie Portman? I never seen it but that's based on a story that happened in the late 2000s.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Matthew Weiner should drop his other projects and get to work on this immediately. 

I loved the show, but what exactly is the story that still needs to be told concerning these characters?    

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Was it that movie with Natalie Portman? I never seen it but that's based on a story that happened in the late 2000s.

Yes, I realize that it’s based on real life events, but, I still don’t understand the reason for no one using cell phones and the outdated men’s hairstyles and clothes. It was odd, but, a pretty good movie, imo. Despite its poor reception.

[Umbelina]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I loved the show, but what exactly is the story that still needs to be told concerning these characters?    

Not much.

A Sally spinoff maybe?  Possibly something to do with Peggy, or with Joan and her son.  Honestly, the only thing that might me interesting to me is Pete and Trudy jet-setting around the world, with their precocious daughter.  The eighties and nineties might be interesting.

[txhorns79]

24 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Possibly something to do with Peggy, or with Joan and her son. 

I'd find a Peggy/Joan spin off interesting.  They do advertising by day and solve mysteries at night, while finding romance and intrigue along the way.   

[Old Man Neil]

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I loved the show, but what exactly is the story that still needs to be told concerning these characters?    

I'd like to see Don in a long-term relationship with his real estate agent. 

57 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I'd find a Peggy/Joan spin off interesting. They do advertising by day and solve mysteries at night, while finding romance and intrigue along the way. 

There you go. The possibilties are endless. 

[VCRTracking]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yes, I realize that it’s based on real life events, but, I still don’t understand the reason for no one using cell phones and the outdated men’s hairstyles and clothes. It was odd, but, a pretty good movie, imo. Despite its poor reception.

I don't know. I guess it's like the movie RUDY with Sean Astin was set in the early 70s but everyone had short hair like they were in the 50s even though the real Rudy had the long hair and sideburns of the time period:

[Pickles Aplenty]

Just finished my rewatch the other day.  I have this feeling that Sally would grow up to be a therapist.  Maybe I just love the idea of Sally getting the degree Betty never did, or maybe I think Sally's personality fits that profession, since she's been through some stuff, and seemed to have her eyes opened to how the world works from a very young age.  Maybe it's both.  Anyway, that is the epilogue I have created for Sally, in my head.

[SunnyBeBe]

11 hours ago, Billina said:

Just finished my rewatch the other day.  I have this feeling that Sally would grow up to be a therapist.  Maybe I just love the idea of Sally getting the degree Betty never did, or maybe I think Sally's personality fits that profession, since she's been through some stuff, and seemed to have her eyes opened to how the world works from a very young age.  Maybe it's both.  Anyway, that is the epilogue I have created for Sally, in my head.

Yeah, Sally really had what I would call a rough upbringing, despite the upscale lifestyle and education. With such tortured parents, she seemed to be really dealing with reality when the show concludes.  How old was she in the last scene where she's caring for her mother?

[txhorns79]

8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

How old was she in the last scene where she's caring for her mother?

I think she is 16. 

[caitmcg]

The only place the show is available on demand now is DirecTV, but at the moment Amazon’s selling S1-2 for $4.99 and S3-7 for $6.99, if anyone who doesn’t own them wants to. 

[MCMLXXVII]

Now that I’ve been working from home since March, on the one hand I’m like “office buildings are a mid-century relic of elitism”, let’s never go back! On the other hand I’m thinking my living room can be turned into a sexy Mad Men style office way better than my cubicle at work.😂

[txhorns79]

Quote

The only place the show is available on demand now is DirecTV, but at the moment Amazon’s selling S1-2 for $4.99 and S3-7 for $6.99, if anyone who doesn’t own them wants to. 

Apple is currently selling the entire series for streaming at $34.99, essentially five bucks a season, so if you have Apple TV, it's a great deal. 

Quote

There you go. The possibilties are endless. 

They are and they aren't.  Realistically, there are some characters who I would find it interesting to see where they were, let's say in 5 or 10 years of the series ending, but I don't know that it would be enough to sustain a series. 

[LydiaE]

I would have enjoyed a McCann spin-off.  Don, Peggy, Stan, and Ted’s creative stories. Roger’s debauchery in accounts.  Since Joan had left, no more of her boring drama.

[Inquisitionist]

Fun interview with Joel Murray at the Open Concessions podcast site (scroll down to 5/28).  As you might expect, it focuses largely on Joel's status as a lifelong Cubs' fan, but there is also lots of info about his family.  He is the youngest of 9 from an Irish Catholic family that lived in Winnetka, north of Chicago.  Among his older siblings are actors Bill Murray and Brian Doyle Murray.  His oldest brother Ed (a non-actor) was the inspiration for the movie Caddieshack.  I really only know Joel from his role as Freddy Rumsen.  Terrific part and well-played by Joel!

[Pickles Aplenty]

On 6/27/2020 at 11:27 AM, txhorns79 said:

They are and they aren't.  Realistically, there are some characters who I would find it interesting to see where they were, let's say in 5 or 10 years of the series ending, but I don't know that it would be enough to sustain a series. 

I would love to know what happened to Ginsberg, but I think it would just bum me out.

[Umbelina]

On 6/30/2020 at 8:53 PM, Billina said:

I would love to know what happened to Ginsberg, but I think it would just bum me out.

That was a great character played by a great actor.  I wish we had at least learned more about his concentration camp experience.  I'm still not sure if his "father" simply adopted him as one of the orphans/victims OR if he was really his father.

All around, I would have loved much more Ginsberg, before and after.  I just watched the scene last night when he comes into Don's office with the "At last, something beautiful you can truly own" pitch for jaguar.  There is no way that entire scene could have been played better, by either actor, it was perfection.