Nora West-Allen: XS

[Trini]

Discuss the newest member of the Flash family! The daughter of Barry Allen and Iris West: Nora West-Allen. Played by Jessica Parker Kennedy. Also a speedster like her father, she's come to the past, but why?
 

[bettername2come]

I liked her well enough last season. She seems like a believable enough combination of Barry and Iris. Looking forward to seeing how this season with her plays out. And dropping accidental hints to everybody about the future. 

[Trini]

Nora's narration from 5.01:

Quote

Okay, let's back up. My name is Nora West-Allen, the fastest woman alive. When I'm from, thirty years from now, I'm the guardian of Central City. I'm a speedster, just like my dad. People call me XS. Every day I hope to live up to the legacy of the Flash; but I've still got a long way to go.

Quote

My name is Nora West-Allen, and I'm the fastest woman alive. When I was a child, my father disappeared in something impossible. Then I grew up and became the impossible. Now I'm trying to live up to the legacy he created, so that one day, I'll stop him from ever disappearing. I'm XS. How schway is that?

-----

So besides spending time with the father she never knew, she's trying to stop him from disappearing.

As shown last season, she's been able to travel to specific times, so I wonder why she didn't go to the time right before Barry's disappearance? There's more story here; I think she's still hiding a few things.

[legaleagle53]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:58 PM, Trini said:

Nora's narration from 5.01:

-----

So besides spending time with the father she never knew, she's trying to stop him from disappearing.

As shown last season, she's been able to travel to specific times, so I wonder why she didn't go to the time right before Barry's disappearance? There's more story here; I think she's still hiding a few things.

And she was lying about not being able to return home (although only Barry knows that at this point).  I think she's trying to have it all.  She's trying to have the relationship with Barry that she never got to have with him growing up, AND she's trying to figure out a way to prevent what happens to him in 2024.

[Trini]

I wish they had just made her a teenager if they are going to have her act so immature and 'young'. Jessica can pass for that young (well, for TV).

So - if she's from 30 years in the future (2048), and she was born "a few years" before Barry vanished (2024), then her age should be somewhere between 25 and 28 years old. I think the unspecified date of birth is the writers keeping their options open as to when Iris gets pregnant. However, Nora being here now will change things in any case (this is her 'Flashpoint'), so I don't think they need to be vague about it.

[BeautifulFlower]

I don't agree with people saying she's acting like a teenager. In my opinion, she's coming off as a kid. Literally, a kid. Nora acts like she's under 10 years old.

[legaleagle53]

I have to agree about Nora.  I mean, I like her, and we're clearly supposed to believe that she's an accomplished superheroine in her own time, but here, she really does come across as an immature, impulsive 16-year-old novice instead of the sophisticated 20-something she's supposed to be.  And I find it hard to believe that she had zero training or experience in the use of her powers all the time she was growing up with them. Jay, Jessie, Wally, and Team Flash never taught her anything?  Or did Iris really forbid her to even try to learn to use her powers?

Edited October 21, 2018 by legaleagle53

[Trini]

It's another example of TPTB wanting two things at once that are not really compatible: they wanted an immature, novice "child", AND someone the "same" age as Barry/Iris, plus that '25 years later' headline.

 

3 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

And I find it hard to believe that she's had zero training or experience in the use of her powers all the time she was growing up with them. Jay, Jessie, Wally, and Team Flash never taught her anything?  Or did Iris really forbid her to even try to learn to use her powers?

It would be typical for TPTB to miss an opportunity like this, but I hope that they have an episode set in the (Nora's) future, because we need answers! But I assume that they'll just have Nora go on a spoiler binge.

[ursula]

It would make more sense if Nora wasn't a superhero, just a self-taught speedster, who's otherwise a regular girl. It could be due to Iris's meddling by putting a no-fly (or no-run) zone around her while growing up.

(And I will cling to my personal angsty "Iris suppressed or tried to remove Nora's speedster gene" theory with my cold dead fingers ??) 

Edited October 21, 2018 by ursula

[DigitalCount]

I actually don't have a huge problem with how young she comes off, because she's interacting with people who she probably grew up with as authority figures and her superhero dad who she idolizes.

My issue is her fish-out-of-temporal-water mindset. She's an adult 30 years in the future who acts like she's from 3747. The coffee situation rang true; whatever techno she was babbling at the crime scene with the Flesh Cube did not. (Also, just from a sense standpoint: "eureka, this technology we've spent thousands of dollars developing makes these simple latex gloves completely obsolete" doesn't work for me.)

Still, I like her energy, even though she's sometimes bubblier than the much younger character she played on Smallville ten years ago. It is a bit odd that she takes so strongly after her father despite having basically no relationship with him previously.

[Katsullivan]

On 21/10/2018 at 11:21 AM, ursula said:

It would make more sense if Nora wasn't a superhero, just a self-taught speedster, who's otherwise a regular girl. It could be due to Iris's meddling by putting a no-fly (or no-run) zone around her while growing up.

(And I will cling to my personal angsty "Iris suppressed or tried to remove Nora's speedster gene" theory with my cold dead fingers ??) 

You know, even with this confirmed, I'm not convinced that this couldn't have been handled so much better. The fact that no one else picked up Nora's attitude or called her out for it. Or that Cecile and Caitlin were smirking over Nora giving Iris smack at the game... The writers are using Nora for hate bait as @phoenics said in the episode thread, and it's disgusting. It's seriously affecting how I feel about the character.

[legaleagle53]

One of the other things that I've noticed about the criticism of Nora and the way she ripped into Iris over the permanent dampener is that people are asking why she's taking her anger out on the Iris of 2018 rather than demanding answers from the Iris of her own time (who was the one who actually had the dampener implanted).  The thought occurred to me that maybe the reason Nora didn't confront THAT Iris is that THAT Iris is no longer around because something happened to her that Nora couldn't prevent because she didn't learn about her powers or have them restored in time to protect Iris.  So her anger is twofold:  She's angry because Future Iris forced her to live a lie her entire life AND she's angry because that forced lie cost her both of her parents (since she couldn't use her powers to try to find Barry after he disappeared or to protect Iris from whatever befell her in the future).

[phoenics]

4 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

One of the other things that I've noticed about the criticism of Nora and the way she ripped into Iris over the permanent dampener is that people are asking why she's taking her anger out on the Iris of 2018 rather than demanding answers from the Iris of her own time (who was the one who actually had the dampener implanted).  The thought occurred to me that maybe the reason Nora didn't confront THAT Iris is that THAT Iris is no longer around because something happened to her that Nora couldn't prevent because she didn't learn about her powers or have them restored in time to protect Iris.  So her anger is twofold:  She's angry because Future Iris forced her to live a lie her entire life AND she's angry because that forced lie cost her both of her parents (since she couldn't use her powers to try to find Barry after he disappeared or to protect Iris from whatever befell her in the future).

Or - maybe she just ran off in a huff and never spoke to her mom, who now just thinks she vanished.  Think about how she's behaved in the present time.  What does she do everytime she gets upset or someone doesn't agree with her?  She runs off.  

And since we're wildly speculating to give Nora cover for her nasty behavior - then I suggest that Iris put in that chip because 1) Cicada is still out there murdering metas and has targeted her family specifically and 2) Metas are outlawed in the future and 3) XS nearly died as a child and since Iris couldn't catch her, she was desperate and 4) Iris had to choose between her child being dead and putting in the chip and 4) Iris AND Barry did it before Barry disappeared and Iris is covering for Barry to protect his memory for Nora.

I actually think all of that makes more sense than Nora being mad at futureIris for putting in the chip and then ending up dead - so much so that when she has a second chance with her younger mom, she's a nasty bitch to her rather than trying again like she is with her dad.  Especially since she thinks she can change the future - why come back and be horrible to the mom who is now dead?  I really don't get that from a story perspective.  I think the simpler explanations are the best - that Nora learned from someone like RF (because how else would she know about the vibrating hand thing?) about the chip and that she's been getting trained by him.  

Which also leaves a possibility that Iris isn't the one who did the chip. 

Honestly we don't know anything at this point - which is why all of the blame being laid at Iris' feet makes no sense to me.  Neither did Iris/Barry even trying to justify futureIris' decision - there was no need to since Iris hadn't done it.  The only reason for that was because of 1) hate bait and 2) to get Nora out of the loft for drama.

My only hope is that Cecile reads Nora's mind and discovers the secrets she's hiding - Cecile still has some semblance of her powers left.

[Trini]

6 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

... The thought occurred to me that maybe the reason Nora didn't confront THAT Iris is that THAT Iris is no longer around because something happened to her that Nora couldn't prevent because she didn't learn about her powers or have them restored in time to protect Iris.  So her anger is twofold:  She's angry because Future Iris forced her to live a lie her entire life AND she's angry because that forced lie cost her both of her parents (since she couldn't use her powers to try to find Barry after he disappeared or to protect Iris from whatever befell her in the future).

Interesting theory!

I just don't know if they'd want to make everything suck for Nora in the future. I feel like there's more stuff to be revealed, and it might be bad enough that they don't need to make Iris a casualty too.

[Starry]

If Iris were dead in the future it would show in Nora's behavior towards her. That doesn't mean that Nora can't be mad and grieve at the same time but nothing in her interactions with Iris and the way she talks about the woman who raised her signals that Iris is not around anymore.

Since the beginning I've been getting the vibe that something had to have happened recently to put a strain on their relationship and make Nora feel hurt and angry. I never got the impression that Nora and Iris had been on the rocks for years, nor did I ever think Nora was a recent orphan.

[Lady Calypso]

23 minutes ago, Starry said:

If Iris were dead in the future it would show in Nora's behavior towards her. That doesn't mean that Nora can't be mad and grieve at the same time but nothing in her interactions with Iris and the way she talks about the woman who raised her signals that Iris is not around anymore.

Since the beginning I've been getting the vibe that something had to have happened recently to put a strain on their relationship and make Nora feel hurt and angry. I never got the impression that Nora and Iris had been on the rocks for years, nor did I ever think Nora was a recent orphan.

I thought they made it clear that Nora had just found out about the power dampening chip and that's why she took off into the past. I don't think Iris died in order for her to find out, but rather, it was because she found out, had a huge fight with her mother, and then decided to go to the past to save her dad. I can't imagine Future Iris is dead because I feel like they won't want to pass up the opportunity for Nora to confront her mother to find out her answers about why it happened. 

However, Future Iris being dead WOULD be something that could make sense. I just don't really believe that this is the reason. I think that Nora just threw a major temper tantrum when she found out her mother lied and hid her powers. Instead of sitting down to talk to her about it, she decided that she would go meet her dad in the past. Specifically, she first appeared on their wedding day so SOMETHING sparked Nora to go back that far during the whole revelation scene with her mother. 

Seeing as how quickly she turned on Barry when he took Iris' side and how she ran off to her grandparents, who she clearly trusts in her timeline, says a lot about her immaturity. I'm not writing off a dead Iris in the future, but I think it's simpler than that. This show doesn't do subtle very well. I don't get the sense Nora is grieving Iris like she's dead. I just think she's super pissed at her mother and can't confront the woman who raised her, so she's confronting a past version of her to stall. 

[phoenics]

One other thing that makes the "Iris is dead in the future" idea implausible is that Nora specifically states that they spend their whole lives together (meaning she and her mom) in the most dismissive way instead of hugging Iris goodbye in the S5 premiere.  When Iris wants to bond and say goodbye, Nora acts like she's always there in the future and no point in bonding because Iris is clearly around and she wants to bond with Barry - who isn't.

So - nope to that theory.  It doesn't make sense - at all - with what's already aired.  Sure they could retcon it or make it a result of Nora tampering with the timeline - maybe instead of Barry disappearing, it's Iris - but as it stands from Nora's current pov, it's not.

[SimoneS]

I have been thinking that Nora wipes herself out of existence when this story wraps up. 

[Trini]

Maybe not a complete wipe, but a different version because she's changed so many things?

[Trini]

*watches 100th episode*

Yep, this is exactly why you got 'chipped, Nora!

Edited December 5, 2018 by Trini

[FishyJoe]

The actress that plays Nora is horrible. She is acting like Nora is 10 years old, and even doing a bad job of it. I don't think I've seen such overacting outside of a Nickelodeon show. She is supposed to be a grown ass woman, not a preteen. Every time she is on screen, I cringe.

It's possible to be immature and not act like a 10 year old. Cisco and Ralph are proof of that.

[SimoneS]

I think that it is the writing and characterization of Nora as a petulant teenager because Jessica Parker Kennedy is a talented actress. It seems like the producers love her, but I really hope we get a break from the character after this season.

[SimoneS]

My problem with Nora is how casually the team is treating her travelling to their time. You would think she is at sleep away camp, not altering the timeline and messing with people's futures. I maybe can understand Barry and Iris' non-reaction, but Cisco should be alarmed and determined to send her back after what happened with Dante after Barry created Flashpoint. Also, Cisco decoded Barry's Speed Force symbols, I thought that he would recognize that Nora is writing the same symbols making him suspicious, but only Sherloque is remotely suspicious or concerned.

[Trini]

23 hours ago, FishyJoe said:

It's possible to be immature and not act like a 10 year old. Cisco and Ralph are proof of that.

 

18 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think that it is the writing and characterization of Nora as a petulant teenager because Jessica Parker Kennedy is a talented actress. It seems like the producers love her, but I really hope we get a break from the character after this season.

I also think it's a writing/directing issue more than an acting issue (even though I haven't seen JPK in anything else), especially if we're comparing to Ralph, whose writing has vastly improved from last season, and is much more tolerable as a result.

I think Nora will get sent back (or erased?) by the end of the season. Even though they have planned this season around her, I don't think she can stay forever. As noted, it's already ridiculous that she's stayed for as long as has.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I think Nora will get sent back (or erased?) by the end of the season. Even though they have planned this season around her, I don't think she can stay forever. As noted, it's already ridiculous that she's stayed for as long as has.

I have been thinking about Nora's future. Since she is a real comic character, I now don't think that she will be erased. It is more likely that she will be end up being one of a twin and have a completely different personality since Barry will be there as she grows up.

Edited December 23, 2018 by SimoneS

[Trini]

45 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I have been thinking about Nora's future. Since she is a real comic character, I now don't think that she will be erased. It is more likely that she will be end up being one of two twins and have a completely different personality since Barry will be there as she grows up.

Whoops, sorry! I agree with you. I meant that this version of Nora that were spending time with now will not exist anymore (because of all the timeline changes), but there still will be a Nora - just slightly different (and yes, possibly a twin).

[ursula]

On 12/21/2018 at 7:47 PM, FishyJoe said:

The actress that plays Nora is horrible. She is acting like Nora is 10 years old, and even doing a bad job of it. I don't think I've seen such overacting outside of a Nickelodeon show. She is supposed to be a grown ass woman, not a preteen. Every time she is on screen, I cringe.

I've seen Jessica Parker Kennedy play a hard-bitten prostitute on Black Sails. Take my word for it, if she's acting like a preteen, it's not because she can't act in a mature role. It's because the writing and directing for this show sucks.

[Starry]

On 22/12/2018 at 1:47 AM, FishyJoe said:

The actress that plays Nora is horrible. She is acting like Nora is 10 years old, and even doing a bad job of it. I don't think I've seen such overacting outside of a Nickelodeon show. She is supposed to be a grown ass woman, not a preteen. Every time she is on screen, I cringe.

It's possible to be immature and not act like a 10 year old. Cisco and Ralph are proof of that.

Some of the newer Flash writers used to write for Nickelodeon shows. Pretty sure the child-like attitude is exactly what they want.

I think Nora comes across as even more immature because she occupies the role of daughter.

[Trini]

I just wish the Nora we saw in the finale was seen more throughout the season. I get that they had to start her somewhere so she could grow as a character, but when Iris said "She was the best of both of us", that just didn't ring true to me, compared to what they showed of Nora for most of the season.

I do hope that she can come back for an episode or two, with better writing.

[SimoneS]

So it turned out that my first speculation about Nora erasing herself was right. Thinking back over the season, I can only conclude that the character of Nora was a colossal waste because the terrible writing. Instead of Barry and Iris anchoring Nora to the show, too often it felt that like they were side plots to Nora's story. Nora was actually the lead and co-lead is so many episodes. I have said this several times before, but I still don't understand why they dedicated so much story and screen time to a character that they knew would be leaving at the end of the season. It was so badly done. I hope if or when we see "Nora" again, she is written completely differently.

Also, why were they so coy about Nora's sexuality? They implied that she was a lesbian or bisexual, but never stated it explicitly or let her have a romance. I would have thought that at minimum she would have a conversation with her parents about her sexuality.

Edited June 16, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

I get there are people in the fandom who don't agree that Nora throwing tantrums is her being childish and immature. Fine, I can respect. However, there's no way these same people are excusing Nora's behavior towards Iris in the beginning.

She rolled her eyes at Iris for saying "Go team West-Allen"

She intentionally didn't tell Iris she got a phone.

She insulted Iris work.

She refused to hug Iris.

These people can't possibly all of the above isn't immature. I get Nora was mad, but she could've at least be cordial towards Iris.

[Kate45]

On 7/15/2019 at 2:06 AM, BeautifulFlower said:

I get there are people in the fandom who don't agree that Nora throwing tantrums is her being childish and immature. Fine, I can respect. However, there's no way these same people are excusing Nora's behavior towards Iris in the beginning.

She rolled her eyes at Iris for saying "Go team West-Allen"

She intentionally didn't tell Iris she got a phone.

She insulted Iris work.

She refused to hug Iris.

These people can't possibly all of the above isn't immature. I get Nora was mad, but she could've at least be cordial towards Iris.

The fact that a near 30yo woman couldn’t differentiate between future Iris and present Iris proves that she was very immature. She shouldn’t have been angry at 2018 Iris at all, but at the very least she should have been able to catch her self being unnecessarily rude at least at some point.

I did love that Barry was unwavering in his support of Iris throughout Nora’s behavior although I wanted him to call her out for her rudeness. 

[Oracle42]

On 10/15/2018 at 12:34 PM, Trini said:

I wish they had just made her a teenager if they are going to have her act so immature and 'young'. Jessica can pass for that young (well, for TV).

So - if she's from 30 years in the future (2048), and she was born "a few years" before Barry vanished (2024), then her age should be somewhere between 25 and 28 years old. I think the unspecified date of birth is the writers keeping their options open as to when Iris gets pregnant. However, Nora being here now will change things in any case (this is her 'Flashpoint'), so I don't think they need to be vague about it.

After meeting Nora, I would think Iris would do everything she could to avoid getting pregnant. I just started watching again after bailing midway through the Season of Nora . I'm doing a rewatch to catch up and I think I might skip that season.