Perry Mason - General Discussion

[Milburn Stone]

6 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I can't remember the dialogue, but didn't a body fall right in front of them over the side.?

That could very well have happened. I didn't see that part!

Based on your clue, I just googled "Perry Mason body falls overboard" and came up with "The Case of the Substitute Face," Season 1 Episode 32. I think this must be it. Will have to look for it.

[dttruman]

13 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

That could very well have happened. I didn't see that part!

Based on your clue, I just googled "Perry Mason body falls overboard" and came up with "The Case of the Substitute Face," Season 1 Episode 32. I think this must be it. Will have to look for it.

I think you can watch it on Amazon Prime video. Just sign up with amazon on that 30 day free trial offer.

[roseha]

12 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I remember seeing that episode, but there's one other episode that contained a moment, and I don't know what episode it was. And I only saw a portion it. All I remember is a visual of Perry and Della standing next to each other at the railing on a cruise ship, and their dialogue was not related to a case, and it seemed very much like they had taken this cruise together, just the two of them. Or did I dream this?

That's from The Case of the Substitute Face, @Milburn Stone, a nice early episode where Perry and Della are coming back from some legal business in Vancouver and he says she's persuaded him to take the ship home.  Then it's followed by the case in the episode where a wife is accused of pushing her missing husband (who has come up with some mysterious funds) overboard.

ETA, I see multiple answers have come up with this one already!

3 minutes ago, roseha said:

Edited November 15, 2019 by roseha
Added text.

[dttruman]

On 2/1/2017 at 10:02 PM, roseha said:

I know she was 94 and lived a long and apparently happy life, but I am so sad that Barbara Hale is gone.  It was nice being able to watch the original Perrys and remember that she was still alive.  She always seemed like such a lovely and intelligent person and she brought those qualities to her role of course.

MeTV put up a remembrance still for her, but I wish they would dig around and find some episodes where she is featured more prominently.  I did recently see The Case of the Glamorous Ghost where Della receives a hefty finder's reward for finding rare jewels being smuggled in a jar of makeup (or was it cold cream - does anyone use that expression anymore?) and promises to take Perry and Paul out to dinner at the end.

If you are seeing this now ROSEHA and you have the MeTV channel on your cable (or whatever you have), "The Case of the Glamorous Ghost" will be on at 9:00 am EST or in 15 minutes from the time of this notice

[roseha]

15 hours ago, dttruman said:

If you are seeing this now ROSEHA and you have the MeTV channel on your cable (or whatever you have), "The Case of the Glamorous Ghost" will be on at 9:00 am EST or in 15 minutes from the time of this notice

Thanks a lot, @dttruman, I missed seeing your post before, but perhaps my Tivo has recorded the episode anyway!  It is a good one.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’ve been spending this weekend watching Season 7 from MeTV and how’d I not realize that Della/Barbara didn’t appear in four episodes near the end of the season? Perry did mention to Gurty that Della was still away. Not the same without Della. And Gurty annoys.🤪😆

But man, and I know I’ve stated it before, but Perry sure as the most STOOPID clients and make it so difficult for him to defend them!

Oh! And how’s this for a bit of trivia for those here who watched that short-lived soap Capitol? In ”The Case of the Missing Button”, Julie Adams and Ed Nelson played a married couple on the verge of divorce, who reconciled—They played a married couple on Capitol many years later! Of course they were married in name, as she played some kind of invalid and he was I love with someone else!

[peacheslatour]

Quote

But man, and I know I’ve stated it before, but Perry sure as the most STOOPID clients and make it so difficult for him to defend them!

Especially younger women. For some reason young women are always portrayed as having zero intelligence.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just as Law & Order has a bevy of Broadway guest stars, this show had a lot of actors who would go on to become famous soap stars! And they appeared as different characters!😎

Edited July 21, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[BradyBunchFan]

Hallmark Movies & Mysteries is showing a marathon of Perry Mason movies on Saturday.

 

[Old Man Neil]

This site offers free episodes of the TV series and many others. Thanks to it I was able to watch The Case of the Substitute Face. 

https://solie.org/alibrary/PerryMason.html

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’ve been marathon watching this on MeTV these past two weeks (Seasons 1 & 2 and 8 queued on my dvr) and SIGH...I ❤️🥰❤️ Raymond Burr SO MUCH! Then I put on Perry Mason Returns from the 50th Anniversary dvd, and watched the interviews with Barbara Hale and was 😭 along with Barbara who teared up. This was circa 2007/2008 and you could see she still missed him. She kept referring to him as Raymond when she was talking about what Perry said or did!

But MAN! Those screen tests? William Hopper as Perry??!!! That no name dude where Raymond was testing as Hamilton Burger??!!! 
 

The worst were the actresses who played Della! This was NOT Della! Playing her as some coquettish femme fatale! UGH.

So glad they hired Barbara and the character changed so she wasn’t just thisside of a bimbo! I would have LOVED to see a screen test with Ray and Barbara, though. But I guess they didn’t think it was necessary as they had both known each other for 15 years by this point!😄

But seeing Perry hug Della after her told her he was the best person to defend her ALWAYS makes me 😭 and gives me goosebumps!

[GHScorpiosRule]

44 minutes ago, Alistaire said:

If you think that's a goosebump scene, have you ever watched TCOT Weary Watchdog? Bad episode, but fireworks between counselor and "D."

I’ve seen ALL episodes of the series and all the movies. And yes, I remember that one. We discussed it where when there was a full forum-about how Perry gave Della the $25K no questions asked.

[GHScorpiosRule]

If there's one thing that bugs me about this show, it's the way Tragg treats Perry in the early seasons when coming to arrest who he thinks is the murderer. He gets his nose out of joint when Perry refuses to tell him what he [Perry] discusses with his client! Even in 1958, there was attorney/client privilege! Miranda was passed a year before (1966) the show ended, but most of the tenets were still in place.

And, yeah, yeah, yeah, plot! show! but the arrest without even gathering evidence, but just based on the relationship or "hearing" that the suspect fought with the deceased was enough for Hamilton to indict. PUHLEAZE.

But what I truly, honestly loved/still love? The relationship/friendship between Perry, Paul, and Della. With none of the nonsense of will they/won't they/"triangle".

The actors, with the chemistry ablaze, was enough for me. It's why I have no patience for any new shows, because idiot show runners/writers INSIST that there must be sexual tension/sex, triangle, nonsense from the get go.

Edited August 21, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, Alistaire said:

I don't want to be a PerryN*zi, but the "Adams" you refer to is Julie, who plays the infamous lead role in TCOT of the Deadly Verdict.

You're right and I should HAVE KNOWN THIS. But it's too late for me to correct, but I'm hoping a moderator will take care of it.

Raymond himself told Charlie Rose back in 1985 when the first few movies had come out, that he personally felt the show ran two seasons too long. He personally thought it should have ended after season five, but thought it would end after seven. Stuck it out until the ninth.

[katie9918]

Late to the party here, but I’m awful glad to find a thread here!

I grew up on the TV movies (loved Perry and Della!) and last year finally got around to starting to watch the series on MeTV (which has many other awesome shows) and got the DVD sets as Christmas presents.

I don’t think there’s a regularly appearing character on this show that I don’t like. The worst I can say about any of them is that Lieutenant Anderson seemed rather bland compared to the rest of them.

[Milburn Stone]

On 4/11/2021 at 4:24 PM, katie9918 said:

I don’t think there’s a regularly appearing character on this show that I don’t like. The worst I can say about any of them is that Lieutenant Anderson seemed rather bland compared to the rest of them.

I agree, when you take away the first episodes of Season 1, where the show was still finding its tone. In those episodes, Tragg and Burger are real a-holes! (Without redeeming qualities.) You have to hand it to the show for being able fairly quickly to do a course correction.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I agree, when you take away the first episodes of Season 1, where the show was still finding its tone. In those episodes, Tragg and Burger are real a-holes! (Without redeeming qualities.) You have to hand it to the show for being able fairly quickly to do a course correction.

And yet they continued to show their assholishness when it came to Paul being framed for murder; or Burger never failing to try and charge Perry with a crime/lying to the court so he could be disbarred.

[chessiegal]

For the past couple months we've been watching a lot of Perry Mason, on FETV in the afternoon and evening, and I record the 2 hours on MeTV. My husband became a lawyer from watching the show when he was young. He says in his 30+ years as a prosecutor, he never once saw someone blurt out in the courtroom - yes, I did it!!!! Then we guess whether they had to do it, didn't mean to do it, deserved to die, and so on. Raymond Burr has such a commanding presence. The one thing I wish the writers hadn't done was have Paul Drake act like a 12 year old around attractive women. He should be more James Bond cool (or James West in The Wild, Wild West).

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

For the past couple months we've been watching a lot of Perry Mason, on FETV in the afternoon and evening, and I record the 2 hours on MeTV. My husband became a lawyer from watching the show when he was young. He says in his 30+ years as a prosecutor, he never once saw someone blurt out in the courtroom - yes, I did it!!!! Then we guess whether they had to do it, didn't mean to do it, deserved to die, and so on. Raymond Burr has such a commanding presence. The one thing I wish the writers hadn't done was have Paul Drake act like a 12 year old around attractive women. He should be more James Bond cool (or James West in The Wild, Wild West).

As far as I'm concerned, this is the best law procedural show about lawyers evah. Even though Tragg and the cops think they can violate Perry's clients' rights or just arrest them willy-nilly. But then I have to remind myself Miranda wasn't made and enforced until a year after the show ended.

I think my love for the law, came via osmosis--my Mum watched this show when she was pregnant with me--apparently, New York aired the show three years after it ended, and during the time Ironside was already airing!

What disappoints me is that in the movies, that Paul Drake, Jr, apparently screwed up and he wasn't able to maintain the many offices and agents that Paul had on this show.

[peacheslatour]

5 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I agree, when you take away the first episodes of Season 1, where the show was still finding its tone. In those episodes, Tragg and Burger are real a-holes! (Without redeeming qualities.) You have to hand it to the show for being able fairly quickly to do a course correction.

Aw c'mon now Tragg was a real cool cat!

Tragg: Well, I'm glad this one's over. I'm beat.

Della Street: Dig the hipster.

Lt. Tragg: Now, don't bug me, Granny. I'm one of the cool ones. I don't dig slick chicks trying to goof me up... Daddy-o.

Bonus - Bobby Troup, Dr. Joe Early from Emergency!

[roseha]

Lt. Tragg is one of my favorite supporting TV characters.  Perhaps as @Milburn Stone suggests, the writers moved quickly to make him more genial in his manner, the cast was said to have a great rapport off screen.  Maybe it's because I am a big fan of Ray Collins also, but I just love his humor which probably did become more evident as the show went on.  I always thought it was odd the way the show replaced him with Lt "Andy" Anderson (Wesley Lau) who delivered all his lines in such a deadpan Jack Webb manner.

 

[Milburn Stone]

9 hours ago, roseha said:

I always thought it was odd the way the show replaced him with Lt "Andy" Anderson (Wesley Lau) who delivered all his lines in such a deadpan Jack Webb manner.

It was a big come-down, but then, Ray Collins was a giant among supporting actors going back to Citizen Kane. Gail Patrick Jackson no doubt realized he was irreplaceable, and any attempt to give flavor to the new homicide lieutenant was bound to fail. So they ran as far as they could towards vanilla.

[Blergh]

Forgive me if it's been mentioned before, but I always thought it funny how the show went out of its way to make sure there were absolutely no non-marital babies or children depicted or references- even going so far as to have 'secret marriages'  revealed before the individual episodes' ends with a murder victim and the baby's other parent before the victim's demise. Yes, nonmarital chidren and 'outside families' were hardly unknown even during the show's production but it seemed that they believed that extortion, blackmail, murder,etc. were perfectly acceptable to be depicted but nonmarital children were verboten and the viewers were too fragile to have to endure seeing them. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I think they replaced Tragg with Andy due to the failing health of Collins. And even though he'd passed away, they kept him the credits through the 8th season, when Richard Anderson took over.

Edited April 22, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Forgive me if it's been mentioned before, but I always thought it funny how the show went out of its way to make sure there were absolutely no non-marital babies or children depicted or references- even going so far as to have 'secret marriages'  revealed before the individual episodes' ends with a murder victim and the baby's other parent before the victim's demise. Yes, nonmarital chidren and 'outside families' were hardly unknown even during the show's production but it seemed that they believed that extortion, blackmail, murder,etc. were perfectly acceptable to be depicted but nonmarital children were verboten and the viewers were too fragile to have to endure seeing them. 

No. There were a couple, maybe three episodes of women who had babies out of wedlock; where Perry's client was the child. So no, the show didn't go out of its way to not have them. Plus, Earle Stanley Gardner, the author of the character on which this series was based, was very much a presence in the filming, and Barbara Hale had some stories to say about him.

Nothing too bad, but typical of a man during that time. There's also the censors they had to deal with during that time period.

[Blergh]

OK, I stand corrected but I recall quite a few times the show went to extraordinary lengths to reveal 'secret marriages' to save children from the fate of being a nonmarital child. 

[chessiegal]

W just saw the one and only episode filmed in color on fetv. It was cool to see the color of things in his office and the actors eyes. The young defendant is played by Ryan O'Neal's younger brother.

[Milburn Stone]

I started trying to watch that one. It just seemed wrong. And very "shark-jumping." But that might have been true of a lot of episodes in the final season. (The great final final episode notwithstanding.) I don't want to see juvenile delinquents! I want to see rich people blackmailing each other!

[peacheslatour]

14 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I started trying to watch that one. It just seemed wrong. And very "shark-jumping." But that might have been true of a lot of episodes in the final season. (The great final final episode notwithstanding.) I don't want to see juvenile delinquents! I want to see rich people blackmailing each other!

Same here! I watch a lot of procedurals and I have three tropes I just hate. Cops go under cover in prison, anything to do with the government or military and gangsters/punks. Give me the old family of rich weirdos waiting for old patriarch/matriarch to die, dark family secrets and fading movie stars with sordid pasts.

[chessiegal]

The series finale and pilot are on fetv 4-6 pm EDT today. The plots in the final episodes are definitely different from most of the series, and the background music was jazzier. I'm looking forward to the juxtaposition of the last to the first. Erle Stanley Garner is the judge in the finale.

My husband laughs every time Perry asks a judge for just a moment. He says in his 30+ years as a federal prosecutor, not only did he never do that, he couldn't imagine a judge who would comply.

[GHScorpiosRule]

25 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

The series finale and pilot are on fetv 4-6 pm EDT today. The plots in the final episodes are definitely different from most of the series, and the background music was jazzier. I'm looking forward to the juxtaposition of the last to the first. Erle Stanley Garner is the judge in the finale.

My husband laughs every time Perry asks a judge for just a moment. He says in his 30+ years as a federal prosecutor, not only did he never do that, he couldn't imagine a judge who would comply.

And everyone that Lt. Drum (Richard Anderson) questions in the series finale are the real life crew who worked on the show. It was very obvious in the way they told him what they did.

[chessiegal]

I recently saw William Talman on an episode of The Wild Wild West playing a sheriff. I didn't recognize him, he was wearing a cowboy hat and a mustache, until he spoke and I thought - hey, that's Hamilton Burger.

[dttruman]

On 5/19/2021 at 9:09 PM, chessiegal said:

I recently saw William Talman on an episode of The Wild Wild West playing a sheriff. I didn't recognize him, he was wearing a cowboy hat and a mustache, until he spoke and I thought - hey, that's Hamilton Burger.

I guess he was just doing guest spots after Perry Mason

[Milburn Stone]

We all have our favorite episodes, but I thought I'd mention "The Case of the Caretaker's Cat" (S2) which I and my Perry-loving friend saw last night. (It's the one where the Chinese servant to the rich guy sets fire to the rich guy's house. It's also King Lear-ish because the rich guy has two bad grandsons and one Cordelia-like granddaughter.) Anyway, we both agreed, "Classic Perry," one of the best. It has all you want: rich folks, venal jerks contesting a will, plot twists, and a good long time spent in the courtroom. (Burger seems like a more intelligent and formidable foe in this one than in some.)

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Alistaire said:

The problem with Caretaker’s Cat is that the character and motivation of the killer come out of left field.

But wasn't

Spoiler

the grandson's motivation clear? He stood to inherit millions upon the old man's death, and he had no idea there was a new will that cut him out. (He only learned this after the death of the old man.) Oh, but wait. His only hope for getting away with overdosing the old man was if he knew the body was going to be consumed by flames. I guess he wouldn't have known that. Oh well.

 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Alistaire said:

Okay, my exchange today on the Perry board leads me to ask this rarely asked question. Which episodes make your list of Top Ten spookiest Perry episodes? 

No list counts unless you give reasons why your top 5 should be considered the spookiest. We *are* coming up on Halloween, after all! 🎃🎃🎃

Just off the top of my head, I'd have to say The Case of the Deadly Verdict. It had all my favorite tropes. Greedy relatives waiting for rich old person to die, seemingly scheming house maid, cross dressing murderer. The ending gave me chills.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't consider this show with any...spooky elements.

I just love seeing Raymond Burr on my screen, and especially enjoy the scenes when it's just the main three of Perry, Della, and Paul. Whether it's them bantering or talking about the client and how the case is going.

I love playing the guest star appearance game with myself--future soap stars-daytime or primetime. Or just actors that I had seen before I watched this show; or those that became Hollywood stars (Robert Redford, Leonard Nimoy, etc.) or actual big screen stars such as Bette Davis, and familiar faces.

[chessiegal]

It tickles me that you can figure out who is going to be killed within the first few minutes. Then at the end - we keep track of 1) I had to kill them, or 2) I didn't mean to kill them. And at the end of the day, everyone seems to forget that Perry Mason is always the smartest person in the room.

[peacheslatour]

53 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

It tickles me that you can figure out who is going to be killed within the first few minutes. Then at the end - we keep track of 1) I had to kill them, or 2) I didn't mean to kill them. And at the end of the day, everyone seems to forget that Perry Mason is always the smartest person in the room.

Yep. The biggest asshat, the one making everyone else's life hell is always the murder victim. That way we have the optimum amount of suspects.

[Schnickelfritz]

Not really  a spooky episode but you can't forget

Season 6, episode 5; The Case of the  Dodging Domino.

The one and only Halloween episode and it had actual trick or treaters featured in the court room.

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 minutes ago, Alistaire said:

I ain’t a Season 6 fan. Hey, you just gave me an idea for another discussion topic! Barring Season 1, the ne plus ultra, which seasons are your favorite and least favorite… 

While I adore Richard Anderson (and boo that he didn't reprise his role as Lt. Drumm in Perry Mason Returns), the final season was my least favorite. Due to Raymond Burr's back issues, which had colleagues and friends helping out Della and Paul, and no Perry.

But the final season did have a good finale in "The Final Fade Out" with Dick Clark, and the real life crew being "interviewed" by Steve.

And Nine did have the episode where Paul was poisoned--I like that one.

And while I didn't care for the episode itself, I loved the one and only episode in color. It showed how very Beautiful Barbara Hale was.

[GHScorpiosRule]

21 minutes ago, Alistaire said:

While Season 9 overall is extremely bad and extremely good, it's not depressing. You get the feeling of relief from Raymond Burr. 

He wanted to stop after season 7. But he agreed to continue until the end. What a professional!

It's so weird that we have ostensibly, an extra hour for the movies, yet the series feels like it had more content and did a better job of setting up the murder, the red herrings, the investigation and ending with the trial.

Now when I do my next re-watch of the movies, I will cackle and chortle when Perry beats that scuzzy DA played by Chachi Arcola. Because I am that petty.

[roseha]

On 9/13/2021 at 7:09 PM, peacheslatour said:

Just off the top of my head, I'd have to say The Case of the Deadly Verdict. It had all my favorite tropes. Greedy relatives waiting for rich old person to die, seemingly scheming house maid, cross dressing murderer. The ending gave me chills.

I also love that one, it has elements I can't remember seeing in any other Perry episode - a defendant who really doesn't want Perry to help her, and the scene where Perry is standing alone in the victim's bedroom trying to reconstruct the murder with the voices from the courtroom being played over the scene.

[peacheslatour]

4 hours ago, Alistaire said:

Julie Adams in the lead role was fantastic. I don't know anyone who doesn't love Deadly Verdict, because the viewer gets to see Perry Mason be vulnerable... if for 1/265th of a second. :)

I always suggest that people unfamiliar with Season 9's TCOT Wrathful Wraith take a look at it. Wrathful Wraith is another example of the conflicting quality of writing in that last season, and it also involves Perry with a defendant who is less than enthusiastic about him. There are precious few episodes that deal with the aftermath of a Perry murder trial. WW also deals with the paranormal in a way that isn't absurd. 

That one is also excellent. Very atmospheric.

[roseha]

I've been watching Perry on IMDB via Amazon Prime.  They do insert commercials but if I'm not mistaken there seem to be fewer cuts of the actual episodes than on MeTV.  However they cut the closing credits from the episode I watched tonight - which annoys me, I love looking at the guest cast list.

I watched the Case of the Gilded Lily from Season One, a good one and I loved the scene where the witness describes a certain "early 30s blonde" and the camera slowly pans on the defendant's secretary, his wife and the secretary's roommate.  Something similar goes on in "....Lucky Legs" where the defendant and her roommate have similar looks and both are seen in the hotel room of the victim.

Edited September 19, 2021 by roseha
fixed typo

[roseha]

I haven't seen it lately but "Black Eyed Blonde" has that very dramatic ending, and there's that early scene where the title character comes to visit Perry and he asks Della to photograph the woman's face.  Della whips out a large format press camera as if she did that all the time!

Edited September 19, 2021 by roseha

[roseha]

On the photographic evidence question, a poster on IMDB  says that Della is handling an early Polaroid camera, but either way it's impressive to me that she's shown to be so comfortable handling the early photo tech.  There's another episode where Paul is quietly using a twin-lens camera to photograph evidence at the murder scene (I think to keep Tragg from noticing) and I'm pretty sure there's at least one episode showing the kind of press cameras that a "cigarette girl" in a club would use to photograph customers, and it being later used as some kind of evidence.

It is disturbing that censors didn't object to showing a woman being struck on camera...

 

[peacheslatour]

13 minutes ago, roseha said:

On the photographic evidence question, a poster on IMDB  says that Della is handling an early Polaroid camera, but either way it's impressive to me that she's shown to be so comfortable handling the early photo tech.  There's another episode where Paul is quietly using a twin-lens camera to photograph evidence at the murder scene (I think to keep Tragg from noticing) and I'm pretty sure there's at least one episode showing the kind of press cameras that a "cigarette girl" in a club would use to photograph customers, and it being later used as some kind of evidence.

It is disturbing that censors didn't object to showing a woman being struck on camera...

 

And there were a few times where the bugging of telephones was employed.

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, Alistaire said:

Someone correct me if the first example of this isn't in my Top Ten list from Season 1: Rolling Bones. I wish I could be as happy about growing old as Millie and Arcus Senilus :) 

Guess I'd have to "get hitched..." 🤠

 

 

Did Charles Dickens write that episode?

[Fool to cry]

Good God Lt. Tragg is old. I looked it up and the actor Ray Collins was 68 when the show started. At that age Tragg should have been retired or at least a police captain!