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S04.E08: It Takes a Pillage


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Very entertaining episode. Good to see more backstory with D'avin, John, and their asshole dad. Plus the brothers talking about their history, regrets and Johnny trying to help D'av with his relationship issues. I also liked seeing John & Jaq together and bonding.

I am surprised by how much I am enjoying teen Jaq. The actor is doing solid work.

I thought Zeph & Dutch's heart to heart was really well done. 

Great ending with Jaq confiding in John about Delle Seyah's gift to him as well as Dutch & D'avin making up and pledging that they were not giving up on each other nor on their relationship.

This fourth season has flown by. I can't believe there are only 2 eps left before waiting another year for the final season.  

Edited by Chick2Chic
addition... addition!
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Talk about foreshadowing after the fact.  That Charlie lady saying how it was Johnny & her dream, when they were younger, to boost a ship and fly away to rescue princesses.  Well, that's basically what Johnny did when he found Dutch, when he tried to steal Lucy (even though she had just graduated to Queen by that point).

I have to say, even with not being around a couple episodes this season, when he is around LM is turning in some really solid performances, portraying D'avin.   He's had to be more serious in his last couple episodes and he's done a fantastic job with the material. 

Daddy Jaqobis shoulda stayed drunk.  At least then he had an excuse to be a selfish asshole.

Johnny's luck with women, I tell ya.  One potential LI went and got mind-wiped (Clara!Ollie), one actual LI was murdered (Pawter), and now a former LI turns-coat and betrays him [& family] for some joy (Charlie).

Somebody else who's turning in some fine, solid work this season?  Kelly McCormack (Zeph).  She hit all the notes and nailed it in this one.

That burn on Dutch's back at the end;  The Lady's mark?

And lastly, was I reading the tone of the scene wrong, just before the end... or was Johnny subtly encouraging Jaq to go find & hide out with DSK?  Just the way it 'felt' to me.

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1 hour ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

And lastly, was I reading the tone of the scene wrong, just before the end... or was Johnny subtly encouraging Jaq to go find & hide out with DSK?  Just the way it 'felt' to me.

Well, it's not like Team Awesome Force has done a super bang-up job of keeping Jaq all that safe.  Delle Sayeh Kendry is a ruthless, manipulative, powerful, murderous noble of the Nine.  And Jaq is her child and her only real link with Aneela.  The Lady help whatever stupid Hullen try to grab Jaq on her watch.

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23 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Well, it's not like Team Awesome Force has done a super bang-up job of keeping Jaq all that safe.  Delle Sayeh Kendry is a ruthless, manipulative, powerful, murderous noble of the Nine.  And Jaq is her child and her only real link with Aneela.  The Lady help whatever stupid Hullen try to grab Jaq on her watch.

I agree with all that - although I would offer that DSK sees Jaq as more of a connectional bond to Aneela, than an actual son - but I don't see D'avin being OK with Jaq leaving, or at least that he wouldn't be going with him.

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3 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I agree with all that - although I would offer that DSK sees Jaq as more of a connectional bond to Aneela, than an actual son - but I don't see D'avin being OK with Jaq leaving, or at least that he wouldn't be going with him.

He probably won't be until Johnny or someone points out to him that the only real way to keep Jaq safe from the Lady is to kill/destroy the Lady.  And it'll be much harder to do that if they're constantly on an Amber Alert for Hullen trying to grab him away from them.  This way DSK can protect him in the short/medium term while Team Awesome Force and friends deal with the long-term threats - the Lady and her Hullen slaves.

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2 hours ago, johntfs said:

This way DSK can protect him in the short/medium term while Team Awesome Force and friends deal with the long-term threats - the Lady and her Hullen slaves.

As Jaq pointed out to him.  It seems like Jaq sometimes is smarter than the adults around him. ('My son brought guns')  I don't usually like teen characters but they're doing a great job with him.

I really enjoyed the mix-up in the characters:  the men Johnny, D'av and Jaq with Gramps (kudos to Ron Lea to faking his character truly loathsome and to the writer for having us discover it slowly) and the ladies Dutch, Zeph and Lucy.

I also like the insight into Johnny and D'av and how it is that Johnny seems carefree while D'av acts like the weight of the worlsd is on him.

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Good episode with plenty of great emotional beats and some much needed humor. 'We had to stop aging you at teenager' was my favorite. Speaking of which: Jaq keeps defying the trope of the Antagonistic Offspring (proceed with caution, link goes to TV Tropes), very happy about that.  Though not so sure about his plan to contact DSK - whose whereabouts are still known.

The Zeph/Dutch dialogue was excellent all around. There used to be a time when Dutch was such a Daddy's girl that she wasn't able to establish a friendly rapport with women in general - glad she got that out of her system. Unfortunately other stuff is lurking there, I guess those slashes were the Lady sending a message and using Dutch and Aneela's skin as ticker tape, eeek!

Edited by MissLucas
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Struck me as shockingly dull, which Killjoys usually isn't. Part of the problem is that the whole thing is contrived, where D'Avin running off to put Jaq in jeopardy with only one guardian for no reason except he was disappointed in Dutch. Once they glossed that over, the fact that Jaq had the best choice available the whole time was convenient to write him off the ship. Triangles do not need a fourth vertex. 

And part of it was how fake the fake jeopardy is, extraordinarily so even by Killjoys standards. First of all, if the spore is so nearly invincible at self-repair, how the hell is it degenerating in the first place? Second, why wouldn't Dutch give orders to Lucy in case she blacked out. And third, it wasn't necessary to circle the sun, no matter what Zeph said. (Her character was assassinated as being a total boob on this.) The acceleration that centrifuged the spore came from the ship's engines. The ship's engines could have safely accelerated that much at a prudent distance form any stellar object. And of course, the notion that centrifuging is an analysis is like saying you're going to reverse-engineer a watch by smashing it with a hammer. Seriously this is reaching BattleStar Galactica levels of stupid. 

The big emotional moment where Dutch basically says it's possible to do better is totally undermined for me by the episode's blatant insistence that nobody can change, and people always do bad things because they're just bad inside. Namely, of course, Dad is bad. Alcohol is truth serum and it just revealed the real man, and he was going to be exactly the same sober. The ex didn't have a heart, and that's why she's no good and has to die. You do something bad once and you're bad forever, except when you're Dutch. I know this show is just pretty people with attractively badass behavior prancing around snarking at the peons, but there just wasn't enough snark this episode, too much getting solemn about themselves. 

It crossed my mind that Dad had to be such a caricature of toxic masculinity to distract from the way Jaq killing someone and getting inducted into the joy of combat was actually a pretty good stab at toxic masculinity. I suppose part of it was the desperate need to reaffirm Johnny's not-gay best friend status, given the Dutch/D'Avin. 

Inclined to suspect Miss Lucas' fears D'Avin is to be sacrificed on the altar of lower bugets is all too likely to be true. The only hope I think is that Pip's sacrifice is enough drama to finish the season.

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Should have known Charlie would be up to no good, because Lara Jean Chorostecki usually ends up playing characters that end up having motives against the leads.  John really does have the worst luck with his love interests.

Jaq is definitely proving his worth and is actually becoming a fun character.  But I can see why he might think staying with Della Seyah might actually be the better option since trouble pretty much follows the Killjoy crew no matter where they go.

Liked getting an insight into the Jaqobi household, and how Jon and D'Avin became who they are.  I also liked that they didn't try to redeem that dad in anyway, and he was still a scumbag, who talked down to his kids and refused to acknowledge the harm he did to them as children.

The Dutch/Zeph (and Lucy!) scenes were nice.

Next week is the penultimate episode, right?  I guess it is time to get worried, because that's usually when the show likes to "surprisingly" kill off a character.

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11 hours ago, sjohnson said:

Struck me as shockingly dull, which Killjoys usually isn't.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who didn't like this episode.  I particularly hated the reason why D'avin left reveal.  How long has Johnny been holding that grudge and all D'avin had to do was tell him the truth?  Please!

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Boy, Johnny sure can pick em, huh? 

I liked getting back to the Jaqobis home town/planet, even if seeing their dad didnt exactly give us any shocking new information. Their dad was an asshole, D'avin took beatings for Johnny, the whole place was a mess, and they are both happy to be gone from there. I did appreciate that, while daddy Jaqobi might have, on some level, cared about his kids, he really is just an asshole, and it didnt end with D`avin and Johnny forgiving their abusive dad just because they were in danger. I am increasingly annoyed with this idea in a lot of shows that people have to always forgive asshole parents just because...they're their bio parents. I enjoyed getting more insight into their issues, and see more of how they got to the place they were when they met up again in season one. Also, I think the reference daddy Jaqobi made to Johnny "finally learning how to read" was a reference to some hints earlier that Johnny has some form of dyslexia, which helped to stall his engineering career. 

"How you toss your salad is between you and Pip. *Snickers*" Oh Dutch. Liked Dutch and Zeph bonding (even if I didnt totally get the actual danger exactly) and poor Zephs frustration with being unable to help Pip with his spider problem. 

I still like Jaq a lot, he is way more likable than most teenagers who have existed for a couple days would be. It probably helps that he really already loves his weirdo family, and he always wants to help, without it being annoying. 

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Throughout this episode, I found myself quite annoyed. I did not enjoy Johnny & D'avin's dad. I kept cheering for him to be killed. I'm still annoyed he wasn't. But, when I think about it, the non-Daddy J parts were really good. It's nice to see positive female relationships grow. And, I like Jack. He's not a typical annoying pouty teenager. He's actually useful instead of just constantly screwing everything up. (Actually Daddy J was the useless, pouty guy that always screwed things up. That's why I hated him.)

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On 9/8/2018 at 10:49 AM, sjohnson said:

It crossed my mind that Dad had to be such a caricature of toxic masculinity to distract from the way Jaq killing someone and getting inducted into the joy of combat was actually a pretty good stab at toxic masculinity. I suppose part of it was the desperate need to reaffirm Johnny's not-gay best friend status, given the Dutch/D'Avin. 

Is there any kind of masculinity these days that isn't somehow "toxic?"  For my part, I thought Jaq's masculinity was pretty healthy.  Yeah, he killed the guy, but he did it to protect and save his family, which is frankly the masculine ideal.  No, he didn't feel bad about it, but then Dutch doesn't really seem to feel bad about killing bad guys either.  So does that make her an example of "toxic femininity?"

Edited by johntfs
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2 hours ago, johntfs said:

Is there any kind of masculinity these days that isn't somehow "toxic?"  For my part, I thought Jaq's masculinity was pretty healthy.  Yeah, he killed the guy, but he did it to protect and save his family, which is frankly the masculine ideal.  No, he didn't feel bad about it, but then Dutch doesn't really seem to feel bad about killing bad guys either.  So does that make her an example of "toxic femininity?"

 

Since you ask directly...the show has explicitly played with the idea that Dutch is indeed toxic. Most recently, D'Avin leaving was all this was about.  And the first question? When Johnny, the true north, jokes about Jaq enjoying his first firefight, the show's attitude. As to whether this should be called "toxic masculinity," I'm not a dictionary to prescribe proper usage. It does seem to be the kind of thing often referred to as toxic masculinity. And insofar as toxic masculinity is actually a real thing instead of a buzzword, the notion that becoming a real man is marked by, not just killing, but killing with brio, does indeed seem to earn the phrase.

Edited by sjohnson
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Apart from the killing, I think of "toxic masculinity" as the attitude of entitlement and belittling other people that may come with both sexes but more often with men.  Daddy Jacobi had that in spades from the stealing of the money the boys mother gave them because "I needed it" to the justification for his drunkenness and and beating of his son as justified to make him grow up, to blaming everything on D'av and Johnny.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 9/9/2018 at 3:51 PM, tennisgurl said:

I liked getting back to the Jaqobis home town/planet, even if seeing their dad didnt exactly give us any shocking new information. Their dad was an asshole, D'avin took beatings for Johnny, the whole place was a mess, and they are both happy to be gone from there. I did appreciate that, while daddy Jaqobi might have, on some level, cared about his kids, he really is just an asshole, and it didnt end with D`avin and Johnny forgiving their abusive dad just because they were in danger. I am increasingly annoyed with this idea in a lot of shows that people have to always forgive asshole parents just because...they're their bio parents. I enjoyed getting more insight into their issues, and see more of how they got to the place they were when they met up again in season one. Also, I think the reference daddy Jaqobi made to Johnny "finally learning how to read" was a reference to some hints earlier that Johnny has some form of dyslexia, which helped to stall his engineering career. 

. . .  

I still like Jaq a lot, he is way more likable than most teenagers who have existed for a couple days would be. It probably helps that he really already loves his weirdo family, and he always wants to help, without it being annoying. 

I think this show does a great job of acknowledging that family is more than biology. I know there are a lot of people who ship Dutch-Johnny hard, but I really love that they have this close relationship that isn't romantic. There is a semi-dysfunctional family relationship among the characters that makes me incredibly happy. Perhaps it is because I have friends who are absolutely family (including an opposite sex best friend who is absolutely my brother in every way that is not biology), so I relate to this show hard. 

I loved the dynamic of going home again. The inevitable reopening of old wounds and getting some closure. I also continue to love Jaq. Despite being a magical sci fi kid, he is making an impact with his character that goes beyond being related to someone we already care about. He doesn't feel like a walking, talking reason to raise the stakes. 

I loved the conversation at the end and dreaded that something awful was about to happen. It was huge character growth for both of them. She didn't just get pissed and refuse to talk to him, he didn't run away. Also echo the love for Zeph, who has really dug into some heavier stuff this year. 

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