All Episodes Talk

[Apprentice79]

Can somebody tell me if Meredith Lord was Victor Lord's biological daughter. I know that Eugenia had had affairs like Victor and it was the fight that Viki witnessed as a child.  There was always doubt surrounding her paternity.

I know that Agnes Nixon who created the show, Viki and her dad was very disheartened by the rewrite that Victor was a pedophile who raped his own daughter.  She took great pains in creating the complicated relationship between Viki and her dad. She did the same thing with Erica Kane on All My Children. Both characters were named after their respective fathers and their relationships with him marked them for life and in different ways..

Edited August 27, 2018 by Apprentice79

[boes]

6 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Can somebody tell me if Meredith Lord was Victor Lord's biological daughter. I know that Eugenia had had affairs like Victor and it was the fight that Viki witnessed as a child.  There was always doubt surrounding her paternity.

I know that Agnes Nixon who created the show and Viki and her dad was very disheartened by the rewrite that Victor was a pedophile who raped his own daughter.  She took great pains in creating the complicated relationship between Viki and her dad. She did the same thing with Erica Kane on All My Children. Both characters were named after their father and their relationships with him marked them for life and in different ways..

All I remember is that Victor Lord loved her and raised her but didn't think he was really her father.  My memory is too fuzzy to remember who her father might actually have been.

[Apprentice79]

3 minutes ago, boes said:

All I remember is that Victor Lord loved her and raised her but didn't think he was really her father.  My memory is too fuzzy to remember who her father might actually have been.

Thank you! I always wanted to know..

[TeeVee329]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

I know that Agnes Nixon who created the show, Viki and her dad was very disheartened by the rewrite that Victor was a pedophile who raped his own daughter.  She took great pains in creating the complicated relationship between Viki and her dad. She did the same thing with Erica Kane on All My Children. Both characters were named after their respective fathers and their relationships with him marked them for life and in different ways..

I wonder how Agnes felt about the later AMC retcon that Eric basically sold Erica to Richard Fields to be raped (and impregnated with Kendall) in exchange for him making a movie with him...

[Apprentice79]

13 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

I wonder how Agnes felt about the later AMC retcon that Eric basically sold Erica to Richard Fields to be raped (and impregnated with Kendall) in exchange for him making a movie with him...

I forgot about that. That was also gross. 

[Melgaypet]

6 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Can somebody tell me if Meredith Lord was Victor Lord's biological daughter. I know that Eugenia had had affairs like Victor and it was the fight that Viki witnessed as a child.  There was always doubt surrounding her paternity.

I remember someone - jsbt, maybe? it would've been on TWoP or maybe even here - saying they remember a scene from when Dorian was having an affair with young Dan Wolek and she told him that his mother hadn't been Victor's daughter. But she also told him that Victor was the love of her life, which, obviously not, even before the pedophile retcon, so who knows? Maybe my memory of this person's memory is wrong.

I think, if I was banging some young stud, that I wouldn't tell him either of those things. That is some unsexy pillow talk.

[Apprentice79]

5 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

I remember someone - jsbt, maybe? it would've been on TWoP or maybe even here - saying they remember a scene from when Dorian was having an affair with young Dan Wolek and she told him that his mother hadn't been Victor's daughter. But she also told him that Victor was the love of her life, which, obviously not, even before the pedophile retcon, so who knows? Maybe my memory of this person's memory is wrong.

I think, if I was banging some young stud, that I wouldn't tell him either of those things. That is some unsexy pillow talk.

Dorian banged Dan Wolek, Wow! How many of Viki's relatives did Dorian get with? my goodness! no wonder Viki despised her so much.. She also wanted Viki's men as well, she went after Sloan, Clint, Joe Riley and even Harry O'Neill, Niki's man..

Dan Wolek should have been on the show. He was Viki's nephew, son of her beloved sister, Meredith.. I always loved Larry, he was always so damn loyal to Viki..

Edited August 28, 2018 by Apprentice79

[jsbt]

I don't remember seeing that scene, and I would've ever only seen it on YT - I didn't start watching full-on til 1993. I do know '60s-'70s OLTL apparently kept the question of Meredith's paternity open for years, and I have no idea if it was definitively resolved. AFAIC though, she's a Lord.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, jsbt said:

AFAIC though, she's a Lord.

I didn't start watching until the mid-'70s, and as a kid a lot of this stuff went over my head. But Viki always considered Meredith a Lord, that much was clear to me.

[UYI]

22 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

I remember someone - jsbt, maybe? it would've been on TWoP or maybe even here - saying they remember a scene from when Dorian was having an affair with young Dan Wolek and she told him that his mother hadn't been Victor's daughter. But she also told him that Victor was the love of her life, which, obviously not, even before the pedophile retcon, so who knows? Maybe my memory of this person's memory is wrong.

I think, if I was banging some young stud, that I wouldn't tell him either of those things. That is some unsexy pillow talk.

Do you mean Jason Webb? Dorian was never involved with any of the Wolek men. 

21 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Dorian banged Dan Wolek?

 

No, I think they meant Jason Webb. When it came to Dorian and younger men, it actually went back to Nancy Pinkerton's Dorian and Tommy Lee Jones as Dr. Mark Toland. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by UYI

[Apprentice79]

5 minutes ago, UYI said:

Do you mean Jason Webb? Dorian was never involved with any of the Wolek men. 

No, I think they meant Jason Webb. When it came to Dorian and younger men, it actually went back to Nancy Pinkerton's Dorian and Tommy Lee Jones as Dr. Mark Toland. 

 

Speaking of Nancy Pinkerton who played Dorian, I saw a clip of her on youtube a long time ago and she was deadly.  She had gone on record in saying that Dorian did in fact kill Victor. I think Agnes said the same thing as well. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Apprentice79

[UYI]

On 8/27/2018 at 3:27 PM, Apprentice79 said:

I know that Agnes Nixon who created the show, Viki and her dad was very disheartened by the rewrite that Victor was a pedophile who raped his own daughter.  She took great pains in creating the complicated relationship between Viki and her dad. She did the same thing with Erica Kane on All My Children. Both characters were named after their respective fathers and their relationships with him marked them for life and in different ways..

 

Yep, she had based Viki and Victor's relationship on her relationship with her own father, and she made it clear that there had been no sexual abuse, so that angle of the story made her VERY uncomfortable. She also directly contradicted then-EP Susan Bedsow Horgan's claim that she had given the show their blessing for that story (and she threw some shade Linda Gottlieb's way, too).

All of this can be found in the Llanview in the Afternoon book. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by UYI

[Melgaypet]

4 minutes ago, UYI said:

Do you mean Jason Webb? Dorian was never involved with any of the Wolek men

No, I meant Dan Wolek. It was way before Joe and stupid Jason - in the eighties sometime.

[Apprentice79]

12 minutes ago, UYI said:

Yep, she had based Viki and Victor's relationship with her relationship with her own father, and she made it clear that there had been no sexual abuse. She also directly contradicted then-EP Susan Bedsow Horgan's claim that she had given the show their blessing for that story (and she threw some shade Linda Gottlieb's way, too).

All of this can be found in the Llanview in the Afternoon book. 

I have always hated retcons for that reason. I think that soaps lost their way when they started changing established history for the plot du jour.  It alienated lots of fans. I remember a fan was so disgusted by the Victor rewrite, she stopped watching one Life to live.  She said that Victor was a flawed and complicated man who was tough on Viki, but, truly loved her.

I know that Natalie was very popular, but, she did not need to be Viki's daughter to be a Lord. She could have been Tony Lord's daughter who harbored resentment against Jessica for growing up rich and privileged.  The show could have also revisited the animosity that existed between Tony and Dorian via Natalie..

Edited August 29, 2018 by Apprentice79

[Melgaypet]

Personally, I loved the whole nineties retcon, strange as that may be to say about that kind of story. I didn't find it a "plot du jour" but a huge umbrella story that riveted my young self. I was super into it. I'm sure it helped that Victor was "dead" before I was born, so that wasn't a factor for me. But viewers didn't witness Viki's childhood the way they did Jessica's, so I don't think it's egregious in the same way. I'm sorry if Agnes Nixon was uncomfortable - and I understand her reason - but it made so much more sense to me. DID (assuming it exists at all, which I know is a matter of debate in the mental health community) isn't caused by realizing your dad is a womanizer, but by severe childhood abuse.

[jsbt]

No, Dorian was absolutely involved with Dan in the early to mid-80s, briefly. Pre-Jason and Joey. It was a dropped storyline with one of many failed Dan Woleks during the creative chaos of that era. It's on YouTube. This must have been shortly before or after her equally dropped and forgotten flirtation with Asa - yes, that happened too, somehow.

I always loved the Victor reveal, but I understand why some older fans who watched in the 1970s don't. I think it makes perfect sense, and it was the vibe I got with the Victor myth two years before the reveal happened, knowing relatively little about the family at the time - her worship of her father seemed unnatural and still does. The truth seemed inevitable to me. I think it's one of the single best stories OLTL ever did and I think it was the only  honest treatment of DID to be done. DID, if and when it is real, comes from sexual abuse, period. And Viki worshipped her father, a philandering tycoon with many, many secrets.

Edited August 29, 2018 by jsbt

[UYI]

2 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

No, I meant Dan Wolek. It was way before Joe and stupid Jason - in the eighties sometime.

Sorry, @Melgaypet! I didn't know. I hope you aren't mad at me. You just stumped me. lol All these years absorbing this show's history and I missed this somehow. You could knock me over with a feather. 

I wonder if it was Elaine Princi's Dorian; she joined the show in 1990. Robin's Dorian dated Jon Russell at the time she was fired in 1987. I know Dan fell for Brenda after Steve Holden died.

Of course, Sharon Gabet's Melinda was supposed to have been briefly involved with Max, which is creepy when you remember he was with Blair AND Kelly later on (as in, Melinda's daughter). Gross. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by UYI

[UYI]

2 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

Personally, I loved the whole nineties retcon, strange as that may be to say about that kind of story. I didn't find it a "plot du jour" but a huge umbrella story that riveted my young self. I was super into it. I'm sure it helped that Victor was "dead" before I was born, so that wasn't a factor for me. But viewers didn't witness Viki's childhood the way they did Jessica's, so I don't think it's egregious in the same way. I'm sorry if Agnes Nixon was uncomfortable - and I understand her reason - but it made so much more sense to me. DID (assuming it exists at all, which I know is a matter of debate in the mental health community) isn't caused by realizing your dad is a womanizer, but by severe childhood abuse.

THIS I absolutely agree with. The original reason she gave for Viki's DID--that she split when she saw her father push her mother down the stairs, resulting in her death--seems a bit flimsy to me. 

[Melgaypet]

28 minutes ago, UYI said:

Sorry, @Melgaypet! I didn't know. I hope you aren't mad at me. You just stumped me. lol All these years absorbing this show's history and I missed this somehow. You could knock me over with a feather.

Mad? Are you kidding? My friend, I'm proud of myself for stumping you, font of OLTL knowledge that you are. I doubt it will ever happen again. ;)

[UYI]

I did forget to mention this:

One thing Agnes Nixon did when she created Victor and Viki was have Victor treat Viki like the son he (supposedly thought) never had--I believe Nixon herself was an only child. Her father had a business, I want to say it was a funeral home business (it definitely involved funerals), and he had hoped Agnes would become involved with that, but as we all know now, she wanted to be a writer. So while some of the details were obviously different, the conflict between Victor and Viki over where the latter's future really lay was a key factor/similarity for and to Agnes Nixon herself. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by UYI

[jsbt]

That's all very true - I remember it well in her interviews. That being said, the way it played out in story even on the page always came off deeply incestuous and psychosexual to me.

Also, it was Robin's Dorian with Dan and Asa. Early-mid '80s. One of several Dans.

[UYI]

How old would Dan have been then? The final actor to play him, Michael Palance, because of how young he was playing a doctor. Was Dan de-SORASED or something? 

[Melgaypet]

According to my research (so, Google), Dan was born November 17, 1971, sent off to "boarding school" in '79, and returned as a SORASED adult in '83, who worked at the Banner. It says the affair with Dorian was in '84. By looking at the dates, Dan would have then been played by Stephen Culp (Rex Van der Kamp! I will always picture him in bondage gear, being whipped by Sharon Lawrence), who is indeed about 14 years older than Michael Palance, who was born in 1970, so would have been close to the right age if Dan had actually aged in real time.

Or, much shorter answer, yes!

Edited August 29, 2018 by Melgaypet

[jsbt]

IIRC the Dan in question was Ted Demers.

And as for the rest of what I mentioned:

Edited August 30, 2018 by jsbt

[Melgaypet]

I don't even know what to think about that Asa/Dorian thing. Strasser and Carey (RIP, sir) are clearly having fun in those scenes and they spark off each other, but...it's Asa and Dorian. It feels wrong, somehow. Unnatural.

[jsbt]

Yeah, it's weird.

[Melgaypet]

Has anyone read the Flavia de Luce mysteries? I just finished the first and the protaganist, Flavia, reminded me strongly of young Starr, when she was awesome. There are obvious differences - for one thing, the book is set in the British countryside of 1950 - but Flavia is a snarky, stubborn, wickedly smart eleven year-old chemist with an obsession with poisons. She gets revenge on her sister by putting poison ivy extract in her lipstick! I literally thought, "wow, that's so Starr Manning." She's delightful. (She also solves murders, naturally)

[UYI]

Oh wow, that DOES sound like Starr!

I love these scenes from 2001. KA was 10 years old and keeping up perfectly with the decades older Phil Carey! What happened to THIS actress? Sigh.

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, UYI said:

What happened to THIS actress? Sigh.

Bad writing, mostly, I think, and being pushed into an ingénue role she wasn't suited to (part of the bad writing). And I think having little outside experience, both professional and personal. Growing up on camera is tough.

[UYI]

49 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Bad writing, mostly, I think, and being pushed into an ingénue role she wasn't suited to (part of the bad writing). And I think having little outside experience, both professional and personal. Growing up on camera is tough.

In a way, OLTL being cancelled was probably a blessing in disguise for her, because had that not happened, I imagine she would have stayed and only stagnated more. The cancellation/move to GH probably helped inspire her to wonder what else was out there in a way that OLTL staying on ABC wouldn't have.

Erin Torpey has said that Erika Slezak encouraged her to spread her wings once she was around 21, not wanting to look back and wonder why she never tried to explore other things. And as it turned out, Erin left the show around the time she turned 22. 

[Dandesun]

On 10/6/2018 at 9:30 AM, UYI said:

In a way, OLTL being cancelled was probably a blessing in disguise for her, because had that not happened, I imagine she would have stayed and only stagnated more. The cancellation/move to GH probably helped inspire her to wonder what else was out there in a way that OLTL staying on ABC wouldn't have.

Erin Torpey has said that Erika Slezak encouraged her to spread her wings once she was around 21, not wanting to look back and wonder why she never tried to explore other things. And as it turned out, Erin left the show around the time she turned 22. 

Nathan Fillion said the same thing. Apparently Bob Woods told him to leave when Nathan's contract was up because he needed to get out and do more. And this is a thing that I love to hear about the vets on the show. They KNOW the acting biz so well and they probably knew the pitfalls better than anyone.

[dubbel zout]

Soap acting is so specific to the genre, and I think as a young actor it could be really difficult to break the habits if you stay too long. It's also generally a good idea to expose yourself to as much variety as possible, and that doesn't mean making the rounds on other soaps.

[UYI]

Todd, Blair, and the Christmas Present, 1994. It took me WAY too long to see these scenes, but I finally did a few months ago. They're great! I especially love when Blair tells Todd about the kind of dreams she has for herself.

[boes]

7 hours ago, UYI said:

Todd, Blair, and the Christmas Present, 1994. It took me WAY too long to see these scenes, but I finally did a few months ago. They're great! I especially love when Blair tells Todd about the kind of dreams she has for herself.

 

Damn, I miss this show!!

[Dandesun]

Look at all that hair!

[TeeVee329]

Three random observations watching this, you know, again:

1) Fish's low-grade irritation when Stacy starts prattling on about not being able to carry a tune was pretty amusing.

2) Fish's flip phone.  Isn't it adorable to remember when they were the creme de la creme of cell phones.

3) The low, scratchy way Kyle says "I've got a better idea" is hot.

[UYI]

Oh yeah, it's the day Gabrielle was murdered on in 2004.

...Nope, not bitter. Really. 

[Panopticon]

Out of the blue, I found myself wondering today whether Jeffrey King would have turned his back on the tattoo organization. I don't even know what triggered the thought.

Still sorry that OLTL is not one of the last soaps standing. It deserved to be.

[TeeVee329]

Aw, Jeffrey's foot tattoo.

Yeah, I'd love to know where they were planning to go after that cliffhanger with Natalie/Clint/Alison Perkins, given it was two of my faves being terrorized by one of my fave villains, but alas.

[marypat57]

Re:  Meredith Lord Wolek's bio father

If my memory serves me correctly, Meredith's bio father was someone Eugenia had an affair with by the name of Tom Edwards. Victor and Eugenia had an arguement when Victor discovered the affair and accidentally(?) pushed her down the stairs.  Eugenia died as a result of the fall, and Meredith was bornnprematurely.  Viki as a 5 yr old, witnessed the whole thing.  

[Forever8]

Agnes Nixon Full Tribute 

[TeeVee329]

Thoughts I had watching this again:

1) There's a moment in here between Schuyler and Kim that I've always found really interesting - Kim going too far with her breezy threats by noting that Schuyler's mom (or "mom", as it would turn out) is already dead and Schuyler startling her by grabbing her arm and darkly telling her never to mention his mom again.  It just adds another layer to Schuyler's character - he is generally a nice guy, but he does have some demons in him.  And I still think Schuyler and Kim could have had some rockin' hate sex.

2) Watching it this time, while you do want to shake Fish for taking Stacy's word for it that he's not the baby daddy, she does handle it kinda smartly, appealing to some of his internalized homophobia, talking about how she "could just feel it" with Schuyler, implying that only a "real man" could have gotten her pregnant.

3) A very annoying continuity error.  Kyle shows up at the loft specifically to bring Fish breakfast and Fish takes the bag of food from him.  But when Rex and Stacy interrupt their argument, and then Fish goes inside with Stacy, the bag is gone.  Grrr!

4) Finally, Rex.  He's annoying.  It's not so much JPL's acting this time, but all the "My psycho father!' this and "My psycho father!" that about Mitch.  Dude, you don't know him, you don't know how his evil works, don't pretend that you do.

[UYI]

The beginning of OLTL's biggest story 30 years ago (at the time, that is, obviously there were more meaningful stories before, and would be more after). It aired in January and February of 1989. (I want to say it concluded on February 28th, 1989--my birthday, which means, yes, I'll be 30 on that day next month--but don't quote me on that.)

Edited January 30, 2019 by UYI

[Dandesun]

Okay but seriously? It looks like they found the Batcave.

[jsbt]

More proof that yes, Asa and Dorian happened. I guess he threw her over for Pamela. I didn't know the romance lasted into Rauch's tenure.

Edited January 31, 2019 by jsbt

[Dandesun]

I think when Dorian found out about Pamela she ditched Asa. Which is only right. Asa would have strung them along because, hell, that's what he was doing with Pamela in the first place what with his fake name and island paradise. Dorian was not going to have any of THAT thank you very much!

I know Asa and Dorian didn't last very long. I do remember them crawling out of the rubble of a collapsed building... was it Asa's mansion? Was it one of the times Llanfair blew up? That I don't remember but I do recall them getting out all covered in dust and finally kissing. But it was very very shortly after that Pamela made herself known. And didn't she fake a disease to get Asa to marry her? Maybe that's what caused Dorian to dump him.

Pamela doing that to Asa was canny and totally something Asa deserved with his aforementioned fake names and private islands but years later when Lanie faked an illness to get Bo to propose... well, that was just sad. And boring. Like everything Lanie did. BORING. The best part about that was how quickly Asa caught into Lanie's scheme. Which only makes sense.

[UYI]

I like how Tina not only was the one who found out about Pamela and brought her to Llanview, but they became good friends, enough where Tina confided in her about being torn between Richard Abbott (her cousin, gross...I guess in that case it DOES make sense that she slept with David despite thinking he was still her brother!) and Cord...without actually informing her that she had already slept with Cord in El Paso, because of course. lol

(Also, the Richard seen here was played by Jeffrey Byron, the son of Anna Lee, GH's Lila Quartermaine.)

Edited February 1, 2019 by UYI

[TeeVee329]

12 hours ago, Dandesun said:

Pamela doing that to Asa was canny and totally something Asa deserved with his aforementioned fake names and private islands but years later when Lanie faked an illness to get Bo to propose... well, that was just sad. And boring. Like everything Lanie did. BORING. The best part about that was how quickly Asa caught into Lanie's scheme. Which only makes sense.

OMG, so sad and boring.  And didn't she come clean herself, I don't recall her getting busted in a particularly soapy fashion.  Ugh, Lanie.

[Melgaypet]

My dad died on the 24th and today I went back to watch the Asa’s Funeral episodes. Seems counterintuitive, but I found it comforting. Dad was a Texan, but not much like Asa (in personality he was much more like Bo at his best: quiet, solid, compassionate, surprisingly funny. I never really made that association before, but maybe that’s why I always loved Bo, despite some bullshit.) 

It’s been a rough week. It might be silly, but I wish I had new OLTL to watch. It’s not like GH is comfort viewing.

[TeeVee329]

So sorry for your loss, @Melgaypet

And yes, goodness, please stay away from "General Hospital" during this tough time.