All Episodes Talk

[Pete Martell]

1990 to 1992 was an...interesting time for OLTL. The last days of the Rauch era, and the transition to the Gottlieb/Malone era. I will say it did take until 1993 for the Gottlieb/Malone era to begin firing on all cylinders, and it really was one of the better eras this show had.

 

I'm always thrown by how earnest and overwrought this period is, especially Gottlieb's part of 1991. You can really see that with the hyperdramatic Asa material, where there are scenes upon scenes of Asa wigging out and Renee reacting in horror (the idea of Renee being repulsed by Asa being abusive to a younger version of her is interesting, but it shouldn't have to be so histrionic). Cassie is literally having a breakdown every time she appears in a scene. Bo asks if she forgot the corn nuts? Watch those eyes bug and hear that voice quake. Then you have the dramatic tension between Tina and Cord (which I've never entirely understood given that he was about to be "killed off," unless they wanted to make sure viewers weren't mad when she quickly moved on with Cain). Even the music in a lot of the Asa/Renee scenes is OTT. Then there's the sheer hilarity of Asa and that sword. I fully expected him to accidentally cut Renee - at least they missed that cliche. Phil Carey is having a lot of fun and seems energized by the material, vile as it is, so kudos to him. 

 

In contrast, the music and staging of the Joey/Kevin scene is superb - a great example of the best of family drama. Clint trying to help Kevin and later console Viki (if she thought that Kevin's first time was a disaster she's lucky she didn't know what would happen with Joey and Jessica). It's such good family-focused material. And it makes the Sloan story even more forced and more unnecessary. 

 

I also thought the little scene with Stephanie and Renee was beautifully done - this is what Pat Elliott (RIP) was best at.

 

I felt sick inside when Viki told Jessica that she wanted to make sure she'd never grow up to be with a man who hurt her, because all I could think of was the later, heinous rewrites that claimed at this time, Niki was taking Jessica out to bars and she was being molested and videotaped. I will never forgive Valentini, Higley, or Frons for that cheap, shock value violation.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Pete Martell

[AndySmith]

I'm always thrown by how earnest and overwrought this period is, especially Gottlieb's part of 1991.

 

It did take her a bit to find out what worked and what didn't, and for the show to find it's "voice" under her tenure, but once she did, it was a great ride while it lasted.

[UYI]

 

It did lead to a funny scene during Asa's funeral where Viki's four kids were together, and they mentioned how technically, Natalie was the only bio-grandchild of Asa. Though it would have been even better if someone, anyone, was randomly walking past that room at the time they mentioned that, stopped, and said "So is Chord!" and just kept walking. Yeah I know, they were only referring to the four of them, but still.

 

And Cord WAS AT THE FUNERAL. So it's not like they had an excuse of him not being there, either.

 

And it was the last we saw Max, too. Sigh, Max. :'(

 

Going from Rauch to Gottlieb in 1991 must have been jarring as hell, given the differences between the two of them. That was a top to bottom change. It really deserves it's own thread, honestly. Fiona's last scene as Gabrielle is wonderful, though. Rauch may have gotten lazy later on, but he got that part right. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by UYI

[AndySmith]

Rauch's run was a great one, probably tied with Gottleib's run as my overall favorite ones, but by 1990/91 it was basically running on fumes, and whatever momentum it still had was being carried by the cast.

 

Fiona's last scene as Gabrielle is wonderful

 

I think I posted it on the previous page :)

Edited April 14, 2016 by AndySmith

[jsbt]

Yeah, every time I watch anything from the latter half of 1991 Cassie is just going apeshit. I can never tell if she was crazy or pretending to be crazy to throw Alex or both.

[UYI]

Given her two nervous breakdowns later on (first over Beth trying to take baby River back, then when she thought Barbara stole Kevin), I guess it could serve as retroactive foreshadowing, even if she didn't have a full-fledged breakdown. 

[AndySmith]

Given the way both Melinda and Addie went bonkers, I guess it was only a matter of time before someone from the next generation did, as well. Even though it was Dorian's daughter, ironically enough. Then again, given all the shit Todd pulled on Blair, and she still went running back to him, are we sure she wasn't a bit crazy as well? ;)

[UYI]

She did see red that one time and shot Max in the back in 2000. That had to be an interesting day for the DePaivas. That and when Blair threatened to remove Max's genitals with a power drill. :P

 

Max actually faced death several times on the show. He was shot at least three times (the first two times trying to save Gabrielle and Luna, respectively, and then when Blair shot him), he was stabbed once, he had a brain aneurysm--and there were other things, too. Death tried to find him a LOT. 

[Pete Martell]

Howarth interview about 10 minutes in. 

 

[AndySmith]

Death tried to find him a LOT

 

I think death was chasing half the characters at some point lol I mean, just look at Viki. She was shot twice, suffered a stroke, fought cancer, a brain aneurysm, a heart attack, survived a heart transplant...hell she "died" and visited heaven before thinking to herself "No me gusta, I want to live!" more times than just about any soap character.

 

You'd think after a while, death would have realized Viki is indestructible.

Edited April 17, 2016 by AndySmith

[dubbel zout]

"This one's too much work; where's a fatty I can take?"

 

Oops, wrong soap.

[Pete Martell]

Someone has been uploading the "Faux Bo" story. Some of this is already around, of course, but they're starting from the beginning of "Bo's" return, during the search for Clint. I'll post the first clip and you can go on from there if you wish. It's fun seeing RSW playing "Bo" playing Bo - he does it just right, in that it seems like "our" Bo yet you know something isn't right. And of course you get lots of Buchanan goodness, and '80s fashion goodness (and Cord in tight jeans, which is a goodness all of its own).

 

[UYI]

Happy Birthday Fiona Hutchison, wherever you are.

[Pete Martell]

I can't bother with this time period again, but if you enjoyed it, someone has uploaded several April 1997 episodes.

 

[AndySmith]

This was an...interesting period for the show. Granted, interesting does have different meanings to different people ;) We're definitely in the post-Malone era, and it does seem like the show was wandering about aimlessly, with some strange stories for sure. Of course, we'd be getting the Phelps/Long era soon enough, and I can't say for sure that that was an improvement...

Edited June 19, 2016 by AndySmith

[Pete Martell]

Someone has reuploaded the 3 August 1981 OLTL episodes that were on Youtube last year. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCU3vu0aLXE

[dargah]

ok  thank you

 

http://shaparakpay.com

[Melgaypet]

Okay, this is fucking weird, yes?

 

Powell and Rebecca as supportive talk-tos for Kevin and Rachel? Why are Powell and Kevin pals? Hey, Kev, your cousin here raped a friend of yours in your bedroom and said nothing while you were also accused of the crime! Todd's not the only one you should hate!

I don't remember Rachel and Rebecca being friends, but look at all those curls! I have straight-hair envy.

[TeeVee329]

Fish comes out to Layla and Cris:

A nice scene from all three of them.  I particularly love when Fish starts reminiscing about meeting Kyle.  We still didn't know a ton about their past at this point, certainly not from Fish's perspective, but the dialogue is great and the way Scott Evans' voice catches, his eyes tear, you can tell just how much that relationship meant to Fish.  So.  Good.

Edited August 31, 2016 by TeeVee329

[TeeVee329]

I wasn't really watching during this time period, but I stumbled across this from the Christina Chambers Marty era:

1) Wow, nothing about Christina Chambers reads like the Susan Haskell Marty at all.  What a weird bit of casting, it's kinda like Jamie Lunar being cast as Liza on AMC.

2) Oh it pains me to see Natalie acting such the fool over John McBain.

Edited September 7, 2016 by TeeVee329

[Panopticon]

Quote

Wow, nothing about Christina Chambers reads like the Susan Haskell Marty at all.  What a weird bit of casting, it's kinda like Jamie Lunar being cast as Liza on AMC.

No. No, it really didn't. I especially like the part where Starr apologizes to Marty for loving Todd and Marty nods as if it's her due with absolutely no layers or mixed feelings to the response at all.

And this isn't CC's fault, but it was nice when SH came back and Cole stopped staring at his mother's chest all the time. (Yes, Brandon Buddy, we know you have a crush. BUT THIS IS YOUR CHARACTER'S MOTHER SO STOP IT!!)

[jsbt]

I'm still baffled that the Nice Guy Powell thing happened, for however long they had intended for it to be legit before turning on him - I'm assuming it was not always a feint, at least. Yes, they had great writers at the time and as I recall at some point there was some sequence where post-rape Marty tried to talk him out of suicide or something? But I remember when Powell was still seen as 'the good one' of the rapists and I never bought it as a kid. It came as no surprise to me when he was revealed to be the hospital rapist.

[AndySmith]

Here is ascene between Marty and Todd from 1993 (post rape). Not the best copy, but still intense. Susan Haskell and Roger Howarth both did an amazing job in this scene. Roger is appropriately terrifying, and Susan captured Marty's fear and helplessness rather well.

Edited September 8, 2016 by AndySmith

[KnotsLanding]

On 9/6/2016 at 8:57 PM, TeeVee329 said:

I wasn't really watching during this time period, but I stumbled across this from the Christina Chambers Marty era:

 

1) Wow, nothing about Christina Chambers reads like the Susan Haskell Marty at all.  What a weird bit of casting, it's kinda like Jamie Lunar being cast as Liza on AMC.

2) Oh it pains me to see Natalie acting such the fool over John McBain.

The Marty recast and this entire period was such a low point for this show. Her casting in that role will always baffle me. For one, Marty didn't need to return period (even when Susan Haskell returned), but they did such a bad job casting both Marty AND her son that it made it even more frustrating. 

[TeeVee329]

Like I said, I wasn't really watching during this period, but when I found out Christina Chambers was the recast, it was such a disconnect for me because I remembered her from the MTV soap "Spyder Games", where she played this uber-bitchy bad girl.

And wasn't her whole story - besides from introducing Cole - about Mitch Laurence's random brother being obsessed with her or something?

[jsbt]

I actually liked Christina Chambers on SuBe and ATWT. But she was in no way equipped for Marty; she was terrible. I was stunned they recast, let alone with her. (Susan allegedly turned it down at the time.) She was supposedly Frank's stubborn last-minute bargain-basement choice after Sarah Brown backed out, showing his early predilection for casting Big Stars without rhyme or reason - it's not like Sarah's storyline under Dena Higley would've been any better, but I'm sure he would've creamed himself at pairing SB and Michael Easton. (I also don't think Sarah would be right for Marty, period; she plays volatile characters but Marty's fire was different from Carly's, Sarah's energy is too masculine.)

And yeah, the Marty story under Higley was dreadful. She was blackmailed into marrying Miles Laurence, a bizarre, overcomplicated character who never made sense despite a decent performance by David Chisum, because she 'thought' she had killed Spencer Truman. Then they paired her with Easton and it was anti-chemistry.

Also, nothing about Marty or Cole made sense - they were casually living in California despite Marty and Patrick leaving the show on the run from terrorists years ago. I was baffled. At least when Ron took over those bad guys reared their head again. Also, Brandon Buddy was awful. You don't cast a son for Marty Saybrooke unless it's someone as magnetic and viscerally affecting as Susan.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

What, they wanted Sarah Brown to play Marty?!?!*  And I agree, I don't think that would have been a good fit either.

So I assume they broke up John and Natalie for this Marty.  Who did Natalie get stuck with after that?  Because that was a good year or so before Jared, right?

* Oooh, but seeing Sarah Brown and Melissa Archer throw down, that could have been fun.

Edited September 9, 2016 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

They didn't give a fuck about Natalie that year. Higley despised her and I despised Higley. I was barely watching on occasion, until Ron took over. Marty came on in the fall of '06, I believe, and she was pulled into story with John over the Spencer mystery, his pain and angst over his accident, etc. while Natalie was the woman who didn't understand. Natalie was just demeaned for John until they finally broke up in '07, and then they were spinning their wheels and hurling her at any random loser within range because that's all she was deemed good for. Idiots like loser Vincent Jones, then Mikey the "I Wanna Be A Soap Star" reality show contestant Frank hired, who was one of the worst actors in daytime history. Then they tried to force her with Miles, which I still don't understand. They had nice chemistry as friends, but come on.

When Ron took over in late summer of '07 he re-focused the show on her, gave her Jared and Buchanan Enterprises. I thought all that was perfect. I never, ever bought her in the police department, which was just a transparent vehicle to keep her close to John.

And I always thought it was a mistake to do a triangle with Natalie, John and Marty, in any iteration. The women are too similar. Natalie and Marty are both fiery, damaged heroines who used to be antiheroines. They are a generational type OLTL explored many times over the years with many different women - it stretches back to Karen Wolek and Tina or Megan, then ended with Kelley Missal as Danielle on the PP show - and they are the same type. It's very much the same woman fighting herself.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jsbt

[eXiled]

Remembering Christina Chambers's Marty made me shiver. She was so unbelievably miscast that I found her performance bizarre. Watching Brandon Buddy's obvious crush didn't help matters.

While I've never been a fan of Marty, Susan Haskell is a great actress. Her Marty got under my skin with a lot of her shenanigans, many of which were forgotten or dismissed after the gang rape. Yet she was a real character and well-acted, and to me, what she brought to the canvas outweighed my bias and fangurlism (Marty was always in my favorite characters' way :-)

Chambers brought nothing to the role. No nuance or new layers. She sure was pretty, tho.

[TeeVee329]

11 hours ago, jsbt said:

They didn't give a fuck about Natalie that year. Higley despised her and I despised Higley. I was barely watching on occasion, until Ron took over. Marty came on in the fall of '06, I believe, and she was pulled into story with John over the Spencer mystery, his pain and angst over his accident, etc. while Natalie was the woman who didn't understand. Natalie was just demeaned for John until they finally broke up in '07, and then they were spinning their wheels and hurling her at any random loser within range because that's all she was deemed good for. Idiots like loser Vincent Jones, then Mikey the "I Wanna Be A Soap Star" reality show contestant Frank hired, who was one of the worst actors in daytime history. Then they tried to force her with Miles, which I still don't understand. They had nice chemistry as friends, but come on.

Vincent Jones?  I thought that was Layla's boyfriend who was cheating on her left and right, which spiraled her into her stories with Fish and Cristian?

But how crazy that they didn't invest in any real love interest for Natalie between John and Jared*.  I recall she bounced off Paul Cramer too, but nothing really happened there either.

* Although I guess the "doppleganger" Cristian story was in there somewhere?  Ow, my head hurts.

Edited September 9, 2016 by TeeVee329

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, jsbt said:

Then they paired her with Easton and it was anti-chemistry.

Oof, it was a black hole.

What was the clever nickname for CC's Marty? 

13 hours ago, jsbt said:

Brandon Buddy was awful.

So, so bad. He was charming in stuff KA made offscreen, but that didn't translate to Cole at. all.

[TeeVee329]

On a bit of a Kimberly Andrews binge.  Here's her final scene, where she and Cutter briefly talk about their mom, Alex Olanov:

I remain GUTTED that Tonja Walker and Amanda Setton never shared a scene.

[Melgaypet]

4 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Vincent Jones?  I thought that was Layla's boyfriend who was cheating on her left and right, which spiraled her into her stories with Fish and Cristian?

Yeah, that same Vincent. They had him acting as Natalie's "life coach" (or maybe she was his? whatever) and it was stupid as hell. First of all, that guy couldn't act. Second, it was like a D-story. Third, "LIFE COACH" ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME. Fourth, and this has nothing to do with Natalie, but Vincent was so obviously the Poor Man's RJ Gannon and I wanted the real thing.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Melgaypet

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

What was the clever nickname for CC's Marty? 

Answering my own question: Muerte.

[AndySmith]

Viki's first meeting with Marty.

Also, for anyone who never watched, here is Todd & Co.'s rape of Marty.

[UYI]

20 hours ago, jsbt said:

 

Also, nothing about Marty or Cole made sense - they were casually living in California despite Marty and Patrick leaving the show on the run from terrorists years ago. I was baffled. At least when Ron took over those bad guys reared their head again. Also, Brandon Buddy was awful. You don't cast a son for Marty Saybrooke unless it's someone as magnetic and viscerally affecting as Susan.

Also, the fact that Marty & Patrick's child was supposed to be a girl about a year or two younger than Starr. But, you know, details. 

[jsbt]

8 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Vincent Jones?  I thought that was Layla's boyfriend who was cheating on her left and right, which spiraled her into her stories with Fish and Cristian?

This was in the middle of that. As Melgaypet mentioned, Vincent was Frank and Higley's cheap attempt to do "the new R.J.", complete with a shitty handoff scene with both men. But Tobias Truvillion was mushmouthed and wooden, and as Tim Stickney said of him later 'not everyone works hard.' He floated between various women for a while, including Natalie. The Dopple-Cris thing was years before this - I think 2004-2005.

And yeah, Vincent as Natalie's "life coach" was insane and rage-inducing. Thankfully their 'friendship' disappeared quickly.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jsbt

[Pete Martell]

A few years ago someone uploaded a lot of late '70s OLTL on audio (sadly I haven't listened to most of it yet - it may be gone for all I know), and I thought that was probably it (which in itself was something I never expected), but someone has now uploaded a few short audio clips of Cathy Craig's drug story circa 1970. This is some of the only work of Agnes' that I've gotten to hear. 

 

[Melgaypet]

2 hours ago, UYI said:

Also, the fact that Marty & Patrick's child was supposed to be a girl about a year or two younger than Starr. But, you know, details. 

That bugged. The girl thing is easy enough to handwave, (although if Starr had hooked up with Marty & Patrick's daughter, we'd at least have been spared that interminable baby storyline) but the age thing, argh. I'm not one to get bent out of shape over SORAS, but let's not wipe out actual history. Where was Brendan supposed to fit in there, idiot writers? 

I still say, if they were bound and determined to do a Romeo & Juliet story for Starr's first romance, the boy should have been Frankie Holden. And it should have been written better. You know they didn't think beyond "Todd's daughter & Marty's son fall in love! DRAMZ!"

[UYI]

And Frank's deafness was dissolved in a throwaway line between Max & Al in 2002, so that wouldn't have been an issue, either. 

[Pete Martell]

The end of the not all that well-received Badderly saga...Viki gets shot by Carlo's thugs. 

[AndySmith]

It had some decent moments, to be fair. Well, after Viki gets shot/has her stroke, it had some decent moments. Though it also led to the crappy way Gabrielle was written off the show.

[Pete Martell]

2 hours ago, AndySmith said:

It had some decent moments, to be fair. Well, after Viki gets shot/has her stroke, it had some decent moments. Though it also led to the crappy way Gabrielle was written off the show.

Sorry - I conflated the two (I guess they were somewhat tied together) but I meant the Badderly Island stuff, which wasn't really that well-received compared to many Rauch spectacles. It does have its moments. 

Viki's stroke wasn't too bad a story - it was something new for the character, and Erika Slezak gave a strong performance. I do think they wasted an opportunity in not having her do more as mayor. I tend to believe that the Jean Randolph in her would have thrived as mayor...

Other than a bit of ham (entertaining ham I'll admit) from Erika, Pat Elliott (RIP) and others, the shooting scenes and the leadup to them are very tense and effective. Even as Rauch's production skills weren't what they used to be, he knew how to make that work - it was as tense as anything from primetime thrillers of that era. 

That episode also has a lot of Laura Jean, a character I've heard of due to being awful, but never actually seen, as she's always edited out of clips. I can understand why now...

[AndySmith]

Don't forget, much of this happened at the end (or, towards the end) of Rauch's run. It certainly wasn't anywhere near what was being produced during the glory days of 1985 to 1990. That stretch definitely had more hits than misses, unlike what we got in his last couple of years, which was equal parts hits, misses, and meh, whatever.

Edited September 10, 2016 by AndySmith

[drtslim]

Quote

What was the clever nickname for CC's Marty? 

Muerte(Spanish for death) because watching her would make us wish that both she and we ourselves were dead.  The portmanteau for her and McBain was McMuerte.

[Dandesun]

Oh Lord, you guys are delving into dark times indeed.

I remember when Muerte showed up and they had Blair sneer at her for 'claiming' that Todd and his buddies raped her... like Blair didn't believe it actually happened or something which is so completely against everything that actually happened on the show and Blair specifically and her relationship to Todd specifically that I am fairly certain I ranted about it on TWoP a LOT.

And, yes, we called her Muerte because she made you want to die.

I think the only thing she did that was worthwhile during her torturous time on screen was tear into Evangeline for defending Todd to Muerte's face. Evangeline was being somewhat dismissive of the gang rape and Muerte wasn't having it. God they were working so so so hard to make Todd/Evangeline a thing despite it being just awful due to the character acrobatics that were required and the smug, skeevy way TSJ was playing Todd at the time.

Ugh. DARK TIMES, people. 

[TeeVee329]

1 hour ago, Dandesun said:

I am fairly certain I ranted about it [CC Marty/Muerte] on TWoP a LOT.

Hee, you did, you all did.  I hopped in the Wayback Machine to see what you guys were saying about the show back then (I popped in right when Cris and Blair hooked up while TSJ Todd and Vange chastely snuggled) and it sounds like it was wretched times indeed.

Thought it was interesting that they were already toying with Cris and Layla, a good two or three years before they got together for reals.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, Dandesun said:

God they were working so so so hard to make Todd/Evangeline a thing despite it being just awful due to the character acrobatics that were required and the smug, skeevy way TSJ was playing Todd at the time.

Thank you very much for that acid flashback, Dandesun.

[Dandesun]

3 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Hee, you did, you all did.  I hopped in the Wayback Machine to see what you guys were saying about the show back then (I popped in right when Cris and Blair hooked up while TSJ Todd and Vange chastely snuggled) and it sounds like it was wretched times indeed.

Thought it was interesting that they were already toying with Cris and Layla, a good two or three years before they got together for reals.

Gods... the writers were obsessed with making Blair a dirty whore who'll sleep with anyone while Todd, Todd, was the chaste, romantic hero who loved so deeply and purely.

They pulled the same shit with Todd/Tea and Blair/Eli. Well, at least Blair was getting some good sex out of the deal! TSJ!Todd sure as hell wasn't!

That whole mess with the Winter Festival and everyone getting stuck at whatever the hell hotel... that was one of the times Starr was trying to have sex with Cole and I'm fairly certain that didn't pan out... Either that or I blocked it right the fuck out as I do all of Starr's sex scenes. Gag. I mentally overlay all of that with Starr Manning: Adventure Biologist and the world is a better place in my head for it.

Hell, I think Blair and Cris were the only ones who got laid during that mess. And I just look back and go... GOOD! At least they actually liked each other and cared about each other even if they were never in love. And at least Blair fucked someone worthwhile for a change. That was a rarity in those days.

[UYI]

Starr and Cole didn't have sex until the spring of 2008...when Hope was conceived. Ugh. 

OTOH, at least Starr got to lose her virginity to her boyfriend. Jessica lost hers while drunk with her stepbrother! Classy.