All Episodes Talk

[Dandesun]

I remember Logan insisting that men couldn't be raped not just with Jax but with Not!Todd, too. I think that's when I stopped giving a crap what he said about anything. Talk about willful ignorance.

[TeeVee329]

Yup.  And if he hadn't already, Logan lost me for good when he called the horrific Lulu/Maxie custody battle on GH "gritty, reality-based drama" because...no.

 

As for the Rapemance, I feel like its biggest defender among the soap press was Nelson Branco.  Who, semi-relatedly, I remember saying, when Scott Clifton got fired, that Schuyler should have raped Gigi because it would have been a "good story."  Oh yeah, FF acting out a rape that the show would have made all about Rex, that would have just been gold! #eyeroll

Edited July 29, 2015 by TeeVee329

[UYI]

 

It was just that in the 80s the whole storyline could be outrageously campy but still work -- Asa and Alex' Central Park Cowboy/Cleopatra wedding that involved thugs dressed as nuns kidnapping the bride (in full Cleopatra regalia) and the Buchanan man giving chase on horseback.

 

That wedding was in 1994, though.

 

And it should be noted that, IIRC, Linda Gottlieb was the one who recommended Wendy Riche to ABC. They had just fired Gloria Monty from GH in early 1992, and Linda Gottlieb had started on OLTL in late 1991, and I think WR had the had same film background that LG had.

 

Does anyone know what month LG officially began on OLTL, though? I've read before that Luna's first day was the same as Malone's first day--September 13th, 1991--but I don't know if that's true or not.

 

This is something I've considered talking about more in the BTS thread--I don't think any daytime soap made itself over more than OLTL did over the years. I mean, 1991 alone is a study in contrast. 

[dubbel zout]

I actually thought Logan's "Calm down, it's not rape" comments were about Jax being raped on GH (you know, the rape Carly and Jason laughed about HATE).

 

You're right, TeeVee329, it was the Jax story. But it goes to show Logan is an asshole with no idea of what rape is. I'm sure he thought the rapemance was fine because Marty said yes, even though she didn't remember Todd had raped her earlier. 

 

UGH. SMH for rape as a plot point.

[Dandesun]

That wedding was in 1994, though.

 

Was it really? Wow. Well, then file it under Malone could do light hearted very well. I suppose it makes sense... Nora was there and Nora was a Malone character.

 

The time-travel story, the spaceship to heaven, Eterna, the exploding wedding cake, Tracy the loon hiding in Viki's fireplace, Tina going over the falls... all of that was definitely the 80s. I suppose that Asa and Alex' wedding had that feel to it because it was so over the top. As it should have been with those two characters.

[UYI]

Was it really? Wow. Well, then file it under Malone could do light hearted very well. I suppose it makes sense... Nora was there and Nora was a Malone character.

 

 

Yep. Alex was introduced under Paul Rauch in 1990, and on the show until 1997 (on a regular basis, that is--obviously she made returns after that, but never on a full time basis). Linda Gottlieb originally tried to get rid of TW, when she was first hired. 

Edited July 29, 2015 by UYI

[jsbt]

I think Paul Rauch (who had brought Alex in initially as a potential new love interest for Bo) turned her crazy and was going to write her out, but her performances saved her under the new management.

[UYI]

Yeah, I read about that in Jeff Giles' book. Tonja was upset that Alex was turning into the kind of character she played on GH (Olivia Jerome). There was some back and forth on how she was reprieved though, in the book. She and LG had some...differences in opinion in how that happened.

 

Actually, it's interesting just how much the vets on the show (including Erika) did NOT like Linda, despite the good she brought the show. Isn't that the reason the show was never nominated for Outstanding Drama Series at the Emmys while she was there? Because so many of the older cast members didn't like her? And it was especially glaring in 1994, which was for the gang rape story. OLTL and GL had the most nominations, but GL was nominated for Best Show and OLTL wasn't. (AMC wound up winning, but still.)

 

I think about the only actors who DID like her were those she hired, like the two Susans (Batten and Haskell). And even some of them weren't crazy about her later on (I think both Mia Korf and Grace Phillips, the second Sarah Gordon Buchanan, were among them). Even HBS criticized some of LG's production choices in the Giles book.

[TeeVee329]

I'm only familiar with later-day Alex so the descriptions of her as a buttoned-up FBI agent when she first came to town always kinda throw me, heh.

[jsbt]

It really is ridiculous, but that's what they were going for, at least initially. It's on YT. Then one of Rauch's last moves was to bring on Laura Bonariggo as the new Cassie to romance Bo, who was too old for her. Alex became the deranged spoiler and a legend was born.

 

Jensen Buchanan was interested in returning as Sarah Gordon that year, but when she visited the set and no one in the new crew knew her she took the role of Vicky at AW. (I never liked Jensen Buchanan.)

Edited July 29, 2015 by jsbt

[UYI]

I'm only familiar with later-day Alex so the descriptions of her as a buttoned-up FBI agent when she first came to town always kinda throw me, heh.

 

Here are the christening scenes for baby Sarah Roberts in early 1991. NiceandSane!Alex is present here.

 

 

I'm curious: Was it Rauch or Gottlieb who was responsible for Alex almost drowning Cassie at Loon Lake? 

 

Actually, I'm curious when Rauch's stuff last aired and Gottlieb's stuff began airing. It sounds like there was an interim period between them in the summer of 1991.

 

I do know Rauch was still there when Gabrielle was sent to prison and Jake & Megan got married.

 

Also, wasn't the last actor hired by Rauch Christopher Cousins? For some reason I think Cain Rogan was actually created under him. 

Edited July 29, 2015 by UYI

[TeeVee329]

It really is ridiculous, but that's what they were going for, at least initially. It's on YT. Then one of Rauch's last moves was to bring on Laura Bonariggo as the new Cassie to romance Bo, who was too old for her. Alex became the deranged spoiler and a legend was born.

 

Jensen Buchanan was interested in returning as Sarah Gordon that year, but when she visited the set and no one in the new crew knew her she took the role of Vicky at AW. (I never liked Jensen Buchanan.)

 

I have seen clips from Bo and Cassie's wedding on YT and that was certainly the Alex I know and love.  Relatedly, as I think I've mentioned elsewhere, Bo and Cassie as a couple is so weird to me.  I guess Alex agreed with me, heh.

 

My only experience with Jensen Buchanan was when she played the awful Melissa on GH and it's not a...positive association.  But I've always heard she was well-liked here as Sarah.

[UYI]

I've always felt bad for the character of Roger Gordon, Megan & Sarah's father. He buried all three of his daughters (there was another daughter, Anna, who died as a child from illness--so, offscreen). And in Sarah's case, she was presumed dead in a plane crash for a year, turned up alive a year later, only to be killed off for real in a car crash yet another year later. On Thanksgiving night, no less, the same year Megan died. Just horrible luck, poor guy.

Edited July 29, 2015 by UYI

[jsbt]

The guy who played Roger, Larry Pine, is a renowned actor of stage and screen, he's still all over TV and films. He's great.

 

RSW was the one who vetoed a second Sarah recast, after Grace Phillips (who I liked, from what I've seen) clashed with Gottlieb and the story didn't take off. As for Jensen Buchanan, I have some experience with her Vicky on AW as well as her disastrous GH stint. Decent though she was on AW, I just don't find her a patch on Ellen Wheeler or Anne Heche, and her GH run (and the stories about her demanding a helicopter to and from the AW studios) soured me on her.

Also, wasn't the last actor hired by Rauch Christopher Cousins? For some reason I think Cain Rogan was actually created under him. 

 

It's before my time but what I have heard is that Rauch hired Christopher Cousins (and ran off Fiona Hutchison). I don't know whether the Cain Rogan character was him, or whether that was invented by Michael Malone after the fact - I think one of Cain's many 'personas' arrived first, and then Cain, the real character, was revealed later. I think Loon Lake was also Rauch, but don't quote me.

 

There are a lot of weird stories in Jeff Giles' book from actors who seem a bit confused - like Brenda Brock (Brenda McGillis) saying she stayed a year into Gottlieb's run, and that Gottlieb had promised her a big story under, I think, Maggie DePriest and it didn't materialize. I'm pretty sure at least that timeline doesn't work, but I have no idea exactly when LG came in and when she began tweaking.

Edited July 29, 2015 by jsbt

[UYI]

It was actually the president of ABC Daytime who ran off FH (and vetoed her return when Linda Gottlieb expressed interest in bringing her back the fall she began as EP). I can see Paul Rauch doing ANYTHING he could to keep her, especially since Andrea Evans was gone by then and Jessica Tuck was about to leave, too. 

 

He did let her go from her second stint at GL, though. I think their relationship had soured by then (although Fiona was nothing but respectful when she acknowledged his death three years ago).

Edited July 29, 2015 by UYI

[jsbt]

I had always heard Rauch had a partial hand in it because she was trying to re-negotiate her price, and he felt he'd made her. He was not exactly Mr. Congeniality. But I don't know enough about it.

[UYI]

Okay, so y'all know by now how much of a "Gabrielle rules, Luna drools" kind of girl I am. But I have had a soft spot for female friendships in daytime, even if I'm not really a fan of the characters otherwise, so I actually really love Marty & Luna's friendship. This is the scene where Marty starts her rape counseling, and it turns out that Luna is her counselor. She tells her about her own rape three years before (in 1990, the year before she came to Llanview):

 

 

And yes, I'm talking about a scene I like with Luna that doesn't involve her being hit by a truck or getting shot in the stomach. I promise you guys, I'm not sick! :P

[UYI]

Just watched this scene for the first time. Kind of has a new meaning given what became of Jessica's character later on. :'( 

 

[jsbt]

I remember that.

[ulkis]

 

they cut out the "brain is not a foot" line! shenanigans! that was the ONLY thing I wanted to hear.

[TeeVee329]

Found it! It's at 5:28 in this clip:

 

 

ETA...I can't even remember...why was Greg allowed to operate on his brother in the first place?

Edited August 5, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Melgaypet]

Because, as so often happens with neurosurgeons on soaps, he was THE BEST and the ONLY ONE who could pull off such a SUPER DANGEROUS & DIFFICULT surgery without KILLING THE PATIENT OMG.

 

...aaaand that is officially abuse of the capslock key. Sorry, y'all, I'm a little tipsy tonight. Margaritas go right to my brainfoot.

[Oracle42]

Me, too. Although Clint and Shane shared a few scenes that I thought were kind of sweet. Not that they were enough to justify Rex being made a Buchanan. WHICH HE IS NOT.

 

Also, little Ryder is Brody's son and not the spawn of Bobby Ford. #headcanon

 

I already headcanoned that Echo faked the test using Gigi's DNA because Gigi was actually Clint's daughter (i'm ok with that cause she's dead) and I liked the idea of Shane and Clint. 

Either that or the DNA tech was on a drugs and the only test he got right was Jessica's - both babies were Brody's and Rex was fathered by Charlie (or knowing Echo, some random hobo) 

[Oracle42]

Part of me wants [Kevin] back with Cassie. Judge me if you must. 

 

I LOVED Cassie/Kevin and I always wanted them to get back together. Plus, I still want Schuyler/Rachel

[TeeVee329]

I already headcanoned that Echo faked the test using Gigi's DNA because Gigi was actually Clint's daughter (i'm ok with that cause she's dead) and I liked the idea of Shane and Clint.

 

Oh my no, it was bad enough Viki treated Gigi like a long-lost daughter most of the time.

[Oracle42]

Meh. She's dead and RC isn't around to bring her back without organs. Besides, I liked Shane enough to want him to be spared having Echo and Rex as his only living relatives

[TeeVee329]

...she's not dead.  It was Stacy (who had had surgery to look like Gigi) who died in the basement.  Gigi lived and she and Rex had OLTL's last wedding on ABC.

Besides, I liked Shane enough to want him to be spared having Echo and Rex as his only living relatives

 

He had Grandma Roxy.  I was always pretty meh on Shane (although I thought Austin Williams was good), but I always loved the time he drew the distinction that while Echo was his biological grandmother, Roxy was his grandma too, and much cooler to boot.

Edited August 5, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Melgaypet]

Yeah, Gigi was alive and well when last seen.

 

Clint already has five kids, he doesn't need any more, especially any lame Balsom-Morascos. I am down with Echo having rigged the test, though. I will never accept Rex as a Buchanan. Never.

[jsbt]

Rex as a Buchanan honestly doesn't bother me that much. He and Clint had a difficult relationship at best, which kept it interesting, and Rex is long gone from Llanview now. And I had liked Rex and Gigi a lot from 2007 til mid-2009, and still have some lingering fondness for them in the brief spates when they weren't being annoying. I also was pretty fond of Shane and thought the character had possibilities. I also loved the entire Paris, TX storyline and Viki and Gigi's relationship. It also gave Natalie another real female friend, which was a nice change. Farah Fath may be obnoxious IRL but she is also very refreshingly blunt, with a dry sense of humor I admire, and it's always translated to her characters. She fails as a leading heroine but she's best in that wisecracking supporting role. I'll never forget her shading Nora's old wardrobe on Bo and Nora's re-wedding day. "I'm sure we'll find something suitable." "Will we, Viki?"

 

Most of all, though, the important thing about not killing off Gigi was that it didn't make Jack a damn murderer at 16. Since Gigi staying dead was supposedly the original plan pre-cancellation, I can't imagine what the fuck they were thinking. How did they think Jack would be viable? Sure, the British soaps do that shit all the time, but they go through a lot of characters like tissue paper and are unafraid to burn whole families out.

Edited August 5, 2015 by jsbt

[dubbel zout]

He and Clint had a difficult relationship at best

 

They didn't need to be related for that, though. Rex was around because of Natalie and Gigi; he didn't need to be shoved into the Buke family for conflict.

 

I will never agree that making Rex a Buchanan was a good idea.

Edited August 5, 2015 by dubbel zout

[TeeVee329]

Rex as a Buchanan honestly doesn't bother me that much. He and Clint had a difficult relationship at best.

 

I wasn't a fan of Clint rapidly warming to Rex the last few weeks on ABC, especially since Rex was still treating him like shit, though I guess we can chalk that up to Stacy's heart, heh.

 

ETA...which reminds me, I also rolled my eyes at the show trying to pretend Viki and Rex were super close when they went to Paris, TX together.

 

The only thing worse would have been making Bo Rex's dad.  "Oh look, they have a father/son relationship, but now they actually ARE father and son!".  Nooo.

Edited August 5, 2015 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

I lived in fucking fear of Bo and Rex becoming Realsies Father and Son for years. I have no doubt Brian Frons wanted it. The relationship (when it worked) worked because it wasn't that. The Clint and Rex twist was, to me, far more interesting.

 

And yeah, they gave them something of a reconciliation at the end of the show, which is understandable. But it's still an interesting dynamic, IMO. And it's not like we have to worry about Rex now, or in 2013 during the revival.

[dubbel zout]

THANK THE BABY JESUS.

[Dandesun]

I thought it was completely unnecessary to make Rex a Buchanan. He had the relationship with Bo. He had the relationship with Natalie. He had the animosity with Clint. All of that was perfectly fine on its own. He should have remained Roxy's son and let that particular web of relationships go on as it was. Making Natalie and Jessica both Clint's daughters was righting a wrong. Making Rex into Clint's son was just stupid.

[TeeVee329]

[Gigi] also gave Natalie another real female friend, which was a nice change.

 

Gigi's friendship with Natalie was the only thing I found bearable about the character in 2010, after Schuyler, Fish, and Kyle were sacrificed at her altar, after the "OMG Rex and Gigi are reconnecting, isn't it adorbs!" stuff, after the grossness of whatever the fuck that was with Cristian.  

 

But the friendship with Natalie, her being supportive and non-judgey about Natalie's situation, that I liked.  

 

And it was worlds better than the show's attempt to revive the Jessica/Kelly friendship.

Edited August 6, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Oracle42]

Wait! What? Gigi was alive? How did I miss that? I think David VIckers as Bo's son was enough. I haaaated Rex as Clint's son and since Echo was a despicable person and a low life, I'm 99% sure that she rigged that test. I actually would've enjoyed Rex finding out and struggling with wanting to keep the benefits of being a Buke vs. honest anger with Echo for costing him a relationship with Charlie who actually wanted to be his father. I'm pretty sure there was a point when JPL could've played that without self-righteous douchiness 

[TeeVee329]

I actually would've enjoyed Rex finding out and struggling with wanting to keep the benefits of being a Buke vs. honest anger with Echo for costing him a relationship with Charlie who actually wanted to be his father.

 

You know what I would have loved/found refreshing (although this isn't particularly soapy)?  Rex having an epiphany and being all, "You know what?  Every time I dig into this and get all riled up about WHO AM I and WHO MY PARENTS ARE, it only causes me and my family pain.  I have Roxy as a mother figure.  I have Bo as a father figure.  I have a sister in Natalie.  I have my own family with Gigi and Shane.  I don't need anything else.  It doesn't matter who my birth parents are."

 

But that wouldn't have super glue bolted Rex to the canvas, which was clearly what the real aim was in telling and retelling Rex's maternity and paternity woes over and over and OVER again.

Edited August 6, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Melgaypet]

But that wouldn't have super glue bolted Rex to the canvas, which was clearly what the real aim was in telling and retelling Rex's maternity and paternity woes over and over and OVER again.

 

Which was weird in itself. Rex was a fairly major character for, what, five years? more? before his parentage ever became an issue. He was established. He didn't need to be a Buchanan for that.

 

Although maybe I'm a little bit of a hypocrite about that, because I actually loved David as Bo's son. He was established, too, he didn't need to be Buke'd to have a place on the show. Although, you could argue that by that point his ties were more tenuous than Rex's, despite having been around on-and-off since the '90's. His only real connection was to the Cramers, specifically Dorian. The first attempt to give him family ties - Spencer Truman - was a miserable failure. He didn't really have friends, except Viki (and Roxy, I guess), and no real enemies either. Most characters just thought he was annoying and tried to ignore him. Except for when he suddenly became the bogeyman to the Buchanans when they thought he was Asa's secret son. Making him Bo's son opened up some new storytelling avenues and gave him reason to interact with more people. I especially loved his brotherly relationship with Matthew. And "Step-Nora" will never not be funny.

 

What was my point? Oh, right: Rex was an ass.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Melgaypet

[dubbel zout]

David as Bo's son had comedy, but I also thought it was so random. Why give him a family at that point? He hadn't been pining to know where he came from. 

[TeeVee329]

I think they leaned a little hard on "Paw!  HEY PAW!" as it went on, but David and Bo did have some nice moments that gave David some grounding when they were really ramping up his buffoonery.  Was it necessary, though?  Not at all.

 

What they should have done more with was Dorian being Bo and Nora's daughter-in-law.  The dinner they had on PP OLTL ("Chips and dip?  How rustic!") was such a V8 moment.  "Of course, this dynamic is hilarious!".

[ulkis]

Found it! It's at 5:28 in this clip:

 

thank you!

[boes]

I love reading all the comments here, although I don't post very often.  Damn I miss OLTL.......Brody.....ahhhh, I just wanted to say that name ONE MORE TIME!

[TeeVee329]

Did someone say Brody (...and dress whites...and Le Moan)!

 

Edited August 7, 2015 by TeeVee329

[UYI]

The whole thing about David being Bo's son making his place less tenuous makes me wish something was done so Max's place had been less tenuous too. I still think there was a way to bring him back, because of friendships he had on the show (and Renee being his surrogate mother), but having a few more family ties of some kind would have helped. Sigh. 

[dubbel zout]

The whole thing about David being Bo's son making his place less tenuous

David was very well established by the time this rolled around. I think the writers didn't know what else to do with him. He'd kind of run his course as Dorian's himbo/nemesis (depending on plot needs), so why not make him a Buke? Ron loved to pointlessly connect people.

[drtslim]

David as Bo's son had comedy, but I also thought it was so random. Why give him a family at that point? He hadn't been pining to know where he came from.

TW said in an interview, that when he returned to the show in 2003 he was told that they were making him Asa's son but by the time that the story started to play onscreen, PC was about to retire so they made him Bo's son instead.

Edited August 8, 2015 by drtslim

[dubbel zout]

Interesting. I don't think he needed a Buchanan link at all, though.

[TeeVee329]

That doesn't sound right.  If he was told that in 2003, Malone was head writer, right?  But then came Higley, who introduced the idea of David's brother Spencer being Asa's illegitimate son.  And then came Ron, who's the one who had Nigel confess to...Max?...that David was Asa's secret heir.

 

Plus, the reveal on-screen that Bo was David's father happened in 2009, close to two years after Phil Carey's last regular appearance.  And it was after Ron wrote the time travel story with Rex-as-Bo sleeping with Gigi-as-Emma.

Edited August 8, 2015 by TeeVee329

[drtslim]

That doesn't sound right.  If he was told that in 2003, Malone was head writer, right?  But then came Higley, who introduced the idea of David's brother Spencer being Asa's illegitimate son.  And then came Ron, who's the one who had Nigel confess to...Max?...that David was Asa's secret heir.

 

Plus, the reveal on-screen that Bo was David's father happened in 2009, close to two years after Phil Carey's last regular appearance.  And it was after Ron wrote the time travel story with Rex-as-Bo sleeping with Gigi-as-Emma.

(The explanation begins @ 28:30)

Edited August 9, 2015 by drtslim

[AndySmith]

This was a great Viki moment. Also featuring Elaine Princi as Dorian, who was probably one of the better recasts I've seen on any soap.