All Episodes Talk: Saving People, Hunting Things

[catrox14]

From the Purge thread, @Wayward Son

reminded of the comments Sam made to Dean about if he was still possessed by Gadreel that he would be worth killing.

Good grief, show. Can we find something new for Sam?

Is his entire identity going to be built upon his worry that he is still a monster like for the rest of the show??

I think that explains to a degree why we wasn't all out to kill Gadreel in s9 per se by the end.  He saw himself in Gadreel.

So I think I'm taking the tack from here on out, that Sam will ALWAYS see himself in a monster of some kind and the problem is there is a fine line between Sam having compassion for a monster and empathizing vs him being a narcissist who is only able to find a monster valuable if he seems himself in that monster. Maybe he never saw himself in Benny or Emma so that's why he didn't have compassion for them? 

Hmmm. I gotta think more on this.

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I think Gadreel was bad. I think Gadreel was sketchy and duplicitous and he murdered. I also think he sought redemption for his transgressions by blowing himself up. IMO what made Gadreel sympathetic was Tahmoh's performance. He showed that Gadreel was scared of Metatron, regretted his choices and wanted to do one right thing before he died.

I've always read that "real friend" scene as being a bit overwritten. IMO it was not intended to show that Sam was "wrong" about Gadreel but to juxtapose it with Dean allying with Crowley and to show that was WAY OFF the rails and to show that Gadreel was more of a friend than Crowley. I never thought it was intended to be Sam admitting he was wrong about Gadreel or that he really saw Gadreel as a "real friend" but more a trustworthy ally than Crowley who lead Dean into that dark place in the first place. 

Taken to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread just in case.

48 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So I think I'm taking the tack from here on out, that Sam will ALWAYS see himself in a monster of some kind and the problem is there is a fine line between Sam having compassion for a monster and empathizing vs him being a narcissist who is only able to find a monster valuable if he seems himself in that monster. Maybe he never saw himself in Benny or Emma so that's why he didn't have compassion for them? 

Except that Sam had compassion for Lenore and the Rugaru in "Metamorphosis." If anything Sam should have had compassion for Emma - a monster who was born into being what she was and had little choice in it. However, stating that she had no choice in the matter concerning killing Dean even after Dean told her that she had a choice not to be a monster is another thing altogether for Sam, so dead she got. In my opinion, anyway.

With Benny, I really do think Carver was going for jealousy ... oops went into Bitch vs Jerk territory there for a moment. *edit*

Edited November 1, 2017 by AwesomO4000

[ILoveReading]

I wasn't sure of the best thread for this question but I figure here would best because its not about one character or one season. 

I was wondering what others "hidden gem" episodes are.  Those episodes that are often over looked by fans, bloggers or other news outfits that you really like, whether it be an overlooked MOTW or unrated mytharc ep.  The ones that don't get a lot of buzz. 

For me its Freak and Geeks.  I loved this one.  For me it had every characteristic about Dean that I love on display.  He was smart, and a leader. I always like seeing him interact with kids.    I liked that hunting was still horror related rather than fantasy.  It also made me think that Dean would be a really good mentor for up and coming hunters.   I really liked Jensen's delivery of the line.  "Let's not be so blood thirsty that any one will do."

I also liked the twist (if you can call it that), that Victor was setting up easy hunts to make the kids think their better than they were.  One critizism I have of later seasons is that hunting is too easy.  That felt more real.  The kids were not great hunters and they shouldn't be at that age.

The only thing I didn't like was the contrived ending so that Krissy could get the confrontation with Victor, but it didn't bug me too much because i loved everything else about Dean in this ep.

[DeeDee79]

26 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I wasn't sure of the best thread for this question but I figure here would best because its not about one character or one season. 

I was wondering what others "hidden gem" episodes are.  Those episodes that are often over looked by fans, bloggers or other news outfits that you really like, whether it be an overlooked MOTW or unrated mytharc ep.  The ones that don't get a lot of buzz. 

For me its Freak and Geeks.  I loved this one.  For me it had every characteristic about Dean that I love on display.  He was smart, and a leader. I always like seeing him interact with kids.    I liked that hunting was still horror related rather than fantasy.  It also made me think that Dean would be a really good mentor for up and coming hunters.   I really liked Jensen's delivery of the line.  "Let's not be so blood thirsty that any one will do."

I also liked the twist (if you can call it that), that Victor was setting up easy hunts to make the kids think their better than they were.  One critizism I have of later seasons is that hunting is too easy.  That felt more real.  The kids were not great hunters and they shouldn't be at that age.

The only thing I didn't like was the contrived ending so that Krissy could get the confrontation with Victor, but it didn't bug me too much because i loved everything else about Dean in this ep.

I have a lot of love for Roadkill and I've never seen it on a favorites list. I was genuinely surprised when it was revealed that Molly was a ghost the entire time even though upon rewatch the clues were there. This was an interesting, suspenseful story with nice brother moments including smart Sam & Dean equally. Molly was a very sympathetic character and Greeley was as well once we learned his story despite him being an angry spirit. Also, I believe that this was the 1st time we are shown a spirit being laid to rest with an afterlife that hints towards heaven instead of hell.

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I have a lot of love for Roadkill and I've never seen it on a favorites list. I was genuinely surprised when it was revealed that Molly was a ghost the entire time even though upon rewatch the clues were there. This was an interesting, suspenseful story with nice brother moments including smart Sam & Dean equally. Molly was a very sympathetic character and Greeley was as well once we learned his story despite him being an angry spirit. Also, I believe that this was the 1st time we are shown a spirit being laid to rest with an afterlife that hints towards heaven instead of hell.

I remember being surprised by this too.  The first time I watched it I couldn't figure out why Dean was so snippy toward the Victim of the Week.  He usually wasn't that short with them.  Then finding out she was the Monster of the week all along and suddenly it made sense. 

It wasn't one of my favorite eps, but the ending of Playthings also took me by surprise.  I didn't suspect the other girl was imaginary. 

[gonzosgirrl]

14 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I have a lot of love for Roadkill and I've never seen it on a favorites list. I was genuinely surprised when it was revealed that Molly was a ghost the entire time even though upon rewatch the clues were there. This was an interesting, suspenseful story with nice brother moments including smart Sam & Dean equally. Molly was a very sympathetic character and Greeley was as well once we learned his story despite him being an angry spirit. Also, I believe that this was the 1st time we are shown a spirit being laid to rest with an afterlife that hints towards heaven instead of hell.

I enjoyed this one, too, and was also surprised to learn Molly was a ghost. It also inspired me to write a fanfic, one of the few centered around this episode :)

 

ETA: I don't know if it's considered a hidden gem, though I don't see it on many 'best of' lists - but I think one of the most under-rated episodes is My Bloody Valentine. It has, IMO, one of the most disturbing opening scenes of the series, "Famine" was the scariest of the Horsemen for me, there is some dark humor, some heartbreaking moments, and great performances from both boys.

Edited November 2, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

A couple of my HIDDEN GEMs are Ask Jeeves and Girls, Girls, Girls

[DeeDee79]

22 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

It wasn't one of my favorite eps, but the ending of Playthings also took me by surprise.  I didn't suspect the other girl was imaginary. 

That definitely took me by surprise also. Wish the show was still that clever :(

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I enjoyed this one, too, and was also surprised to learn Molly was a ghost. It also inspired me to write a fanfic, one of the few centered around this episode :)

Link please!

 

17 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

ETA: I don't know if it's considered a hidden gem, though I don't see it on many 'best of' lists - but I think one of the most under-rated episodes is My Bloody Valentine. It has, IMO, one of the most disturbing opening scenes of the series, "Famine" was the scariest of the Horsemen for me, there is some dark humor, some heartbreaking moments, and great performances from both boys.

Yes! Dean's reaction to Cupid is one of my favorite moments: "Is this a fight?? Are we in a fight?!"

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

A couple of my HIDDEN GEMs are Ask Jeeves and Girls, Girls, Girls

I love Ask Jeeves! It's a very fun,lighthearted episode and all of the characters were enjoyable.

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Yes! Dean's reaction to Cupid is one of my favorite moments: "Is this a fight?? Are we in a fight?!"

Did Ben Edlund write that? It seems like what he'd write

ETA: YUP. Edlund wrote it. He needs to come back:(

Edited November 2, 2017 by catrox14

[DeeDee79]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Did Ben Edlund write that? It seems like what he'd write

Yes, he did :)

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

ETA: I don't know if it's considered a hidden gem, though I don't see it on many 'best of' lists - but I think one of the most under-rated episodes is My Bloody Valentine. It has, IMO, one of the most disturbing opening scenes of the series, "Famine" was the scariest of the Horsemen for me, there is some dark humor, some heartbreaking moments, and great performances from both boys.

Yes, I loved this episode, too. And you're right about that opening scene. It was so wrong, but the actor and actress just went for it, making the scene memorable and somehow so right for this show.

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

A couple of my HIDDEN GEMs are Ask Jeeves

I just saw this on TNT recently and it reminded me of how much I enjoyed this episode. I liked a lot of season 10 actually.

As for a couple of my "hidden gems," I'd have to say a couple from season 7 "Repo Man" and "Out With the Old" which are two very different types of episodes, but I enjoyed both.

I enjoyed "Repo Man" for its dark and interesting subject matter. What happens if a demon wakes up otherwise latent dark tendencies in its host and then just leaves? I found the mystery surrounding Jeffrey surprising and complex. I also found it interesting that in order for Sam to really solve the case, he had to let his hallucinations in... maybe meaning that the things he wanted to bury, some of his darker thoughts, he really needed in order to solve the case. Throughout the episode, it was the Lucifer hallucination that remembered the previous case details, found the relevant clues, and helped Sam put pressure on the mother to get the truth. Meanwhile Dean was just so over the crazy dude... he really  has no love lost for people who don't do the right thing. In a way, I think Dean regards them as worse than many of the monsters they hunt, and Jeffrey ended up being no different (especially after he killed the innocent dog - Dean could definitely not forgive that) for him. I really enjoyed the episode despite the dark story... And yup also a Ben Edlund episode. Not surprising actually.

And for me "Out With the Old" was just good old fashioned silly fun. I loved Leviathan Joyce and her put upon assistant George. Scott the former hunter's son was a decent guy and an interesting character - who didn't die: Yay! - and the cursed objects were fun. I loved the Frank / Dean conversations, too ("Frank, hey, I don't mean to double-dip in your crazy sauce. No offense." "None taken, fudge pop." Frank and Dean make exposition a lot of fun. It's just an episode that I enjoy even on rewatch.

I don't know if it's considered a "hidden gem" or not, but I also really enjoy "Safe House." It was great to see Rufus again and I liked the way the two stories were interwoven together. Sam and Dean worked together well and the case was interesting. And one more: "The Man Who Knew Too Much." I liked how Dean's and Sam's stories were separate yet also intertwined. I enjoyed the mystery in Sam's mind, and I liked Dean and Bobby having some quality time. It was also awesome to see Crowley get "You're good but I'm Crowleyed" by Castiel. Yes, Castiel turned powerhungry, and that's bad... but I loved him getting one over on Crowley and actually showing some forethought and smarts... something that sort of became lacking in the later seasons.

I'm probably forgetting some, so I look forward to some more choices from other people as well.

[Katy M]

Brought over from The Rising Son, re demons hanging out on earth.

 

Back in Devil's Trap, Bobby said that there were maybe 1 or 2 possessions a year, until that year, when there were 7.  I'm not sure how they were getting out that year.  At the end of season 2, Azazel needed the Devil's gate open to free all the demons, and then those demons could break the iron railway tracks that he could get over, even that makes no sense to me.  Ruby said it was a fight to get out in Malleus Maleficarum. Either that or the other demon said it to her.  Immaterial which way I think.  In Born Under a Bad Sign, Meg said it was a pit of despair and that's why they wanted to come here, meaning earth.  In Crossroad Blues, the CRD said that she would claw her way out eventually.  But, after season 3, demons seem to stroll in and out of Hell at their pleasure.  Alistair said he kept getting sent to "chilly" earth.  So, I'm not sure what changed.  At some point in time, Crowley seemed in charge of the comings and goings, but in We Need to Talk, he wanted Kevin to open a devil's gate.  Why?  If he could control who came in and out.  In fact, we saw him take Cas on a tour of the place in The man Who Would Be King. 

[catrox14]

From the Rising Son thread re Demons vs Angels

 

52 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

With Crowley it was either the asylum or Hell, but without Crowley, they could've taken off to points unknown and there would've been no one to stop them. But instead, they hung around waiting for someone to tell them what to do...which, it what angels do, not demons, IMO.

 

I disagree to an extent with the highlighted.

Demons sought leadership from the jump of the show. Meg called Azazel before taking full action on Dean and Sam. She wanted to do something but obeyed Azazel. Ruby pulled the con of the century in her devotion and worship of Lucifer. Casey spoke of worshiping Lucifer as their God which engenders obedience to a large extent. Cain made an army of demons that obeyed him. Sam was supposed to the Boy King of the demons. Lucifer apparently tortured Asmodeus to the point that he sees Lucifer as his master and seems to love him for it (EGADS).

So I think there is an aspect to many demons who want and need to be told what to do because they became broken and obedient due to the torture that makes them servants to a large extent. It's pretty fucked up when I really think about it. Look at how much torture Dean endured before he broke.

IMO, Crowley gave demons a chance to not be in the general population of Hell and he wanted that order topside. IMO, those demons sought the safety of Crowley's lair so long as they pleased the King of Hell. So they started dressing like him, wearing black suits, and being sycophants. As long as they didn't cause him trouble they didn't have to risk whatever awful things happened to them in Hell like being tortured themselves or being made to torture others.

Edited November 2, 2017 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

From the Rising Son thread re Demons vs Angels

 

I disagree to an extent with the highlighted.

Demons sought leadership from the jump of the show. Meg called Azazel before taking full action on Dean and Sam. She wanted to do something but obeyed Azazel. Ruby pulled the con of the century in her devotion and worship of Lucifer. Casey spoke of worshiping Lucifer as their God which engenders obedience to a large extent. Cain made an army of demons that obeyed him. Sam was supposed to the Boy King of the demons. Lucifer apparently tortured Asmodeus to the point that he sees Lucifer as his master and seems to love him for it (EGADS).

So I think there is an aspect to many demons who want and need to be told what to do because they became broken and obedient due to the torture that makes them servants to a large extent. It's pretty fucked up when I really think about it. Look at how much torture Dean endured before he broke.

IMO, Crowley gave demons a chance to not be in the general population of Hell and he wanted that order topside. IMO, those demons sought the safety of Crowley's lair so long as they pleased the King of Hell. So they started dressing like him, wearing black suits, and being sycophants. As long as they didn't cause him trouble they didn't have to risk whatever awful things happened to them in Hell like being tortured themselves or being made to torture others.

There's a difference between agreeing to leadership and not being able to act without it. My understanding was Azazel brought the demons together and gave them a common goal, but it they weren't inert without his leadership--unlike the angels who seem to be lost without a clear chain of command.

Edited November 2, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

At the end of season 2, Azazel needed the Devil's gate open to free all the demons, and then those demons could break the iron railway tracks that he could get over, even that makes no sense to me. 

The demons couldn't break the iron railway tracks. That was why Samuel Colt made them the way that he did in the shape of a giant devil's trap. Demons not being able to break the trap is actually in my opinion, one of the reasons Azazel needed a human to win his Hunter Games contest. To be able to take care of tasks that demons couldn't. The human - at first Jake - would be able to do things like disable the devil's trap. In the case of Jake with his super strength, he just broke the rails by pulling them up. Then later when the demons escaped the devil's gate, the special effects show them traveling along the railway lines (symbolized by the iron rails being lit up) until they reach the break that Jake made, and they cross over there and get out.

[Katy M]

Just now, AwesomO4000 said:

The demons couldn't break the iron railway tracks.

The demons did break the tracks, though. They all (200 or so) got out, and smoked over in their black smoke  and broke the track and then YED stepped over it.  If Jake had broken the track (which would have made much more sense) YED could have just taken the Colt and opened the crypt himself, instead of entrusting Jake with the only weapon that could kill him.  Watch at 51 seconds. The tracks are still burning where the demons just plowed through.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

The demons did break the tracks, though. They all (200 or so) got out, and smoked over in their black smoke  and broke the track and then YED stepped over it.  If Jake had broken the track (which would have made much more sense) YED could have just taken the Colt and opened the crypt himself, instead of entrusting Jake with the only weapon that could kill him.  Watch at 51 seconds. The tracks are still burning where the demons just plowed through.

 

 

Yeah, this was my recollection, too. He needed Jake (or the winner) to be able to enter the trap and unlock the gate.

[AwesomO4000]

Huh. I could have sworn there was a scene where it was shown that the tracks were broken ahead of time because Jake had pulled up the tracks.

If that isn't the case and the demons broke it, you're right that that doesn't make sense.

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Huh. I could have sworn there was a scene where it was shown that the tracks were broken ahead of time because Jake had pulled up the tracks.

If that isn't the case and the demons broke it, you're right that that doesn't make sense.

I seem to recall Azazel and Jake meeting at the edge of the tracks and him giving directions to Jake, saying he (Azazel) couldn't go that way just yet. If all he needed was Jake to break the trap with his super-human strength, he would've done it then. It was the shock-wave when the gates opened that uprooted and broke the rails.

Edited November 2, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[JanetWaldo]

Not to derail the current conversation, but going back to the most watched ep for a moment: Fan Fiction for me!

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, JanetWaldo said:

Not to derail the current conversation, but going back to the most watched ep for a moment: Fan Fiction for me!

Very punny!

[DeeDee79]

On 11/1/2017 at 7:17 PM, ILoveReading said:

I was wondering what others "hidden gem" episodes are.  Those episodes that are often over looked by fans, bloggers or other news outfits that you really like, whether it be an overlooked MOTW or unrated mytharc ep.  The ones that don't get a lot of buzz. 

On the flipside of this interesting conversation starter by @ILoveReading what are the episodes that are praised by fandom & on most critics top ten lists that are just "meh" for you?  For me personally I would say Fan Fiction, Swan Song, The French Mistake & Changing Channels to be episodes that I found enjoyable but I don't seek out for rewatch or have the same love as fandom seems to.

[DittyDotDot]

On 11/1/2017 at 6:17 PM, ILoveReading said:

I was wondering what others "hidden gem" episodes are.  Those episodes that are often over looked by fans, bloggers or other news outfits that you really like, whether it be an overlooked MOTW or unrated mytharc ep.  The ones that don't get a lot of buzz. 

I somehow missed this earlier, a few off the top of my head that almost always surprise me when rewatching would be:

• Crossroad Blues: It's beautifully shot and also carries a lot of the demon mythology of the show. Not to mention, it's kinda the linchpin to Dean's arc in S2.
• Dream a Little Dream of Me: The subtlety between the dreams and real life are just beautiful--never understood why the art department quit doing shrooms after S3. ;) Plus, I love a good dream episode.
• Jump the Shark: I love the quiet spaces of this episode and how beautifully simple they shot a lot of it.  It was a nice tribute to Kim Manners, IMO.
• Repo Man: My first time though, I just didn't understand why it existed, but every time I see it I find something new I didn't see before.
• Heaven Can't Wait: I think this is a fantastic Cass episode, but I also think the case-of-the-week was interesting, not to mention I loved how they brought down the lights and shot it somewhat old-school. 

14 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

On the flipside of this interesting conversation starter by @ILoveReading what are the episodes that are praised by fandom & on most critics top ten lists that are just "meh" for you?  For me personally I would say Fan Fiction, Swan Song, The French Mistake & Changing Channels to be episodes that I found enjoyable but I don't seek out for rewatch or have the same love as fandom seems to.

For me, Faith, On the Head of a Pin, Point of No Return, First Born, Just My Imagination...I'm sure there's more, but that's off the top of my head.

Edited November 5, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Aeryn13]

Quote

On the flipside of this interesting conversation starter by @ILOVEREADING what are the episodes that are praised by fandom & on most critics top ten lists that are just "meh" for you?  For me personally I would say Fan Fiction, Swan Song, The French Mistake & Changing Channels to be episodes that I found enjoyable but I don't seek out for rewatch or have the same love as fandom seems to.

5.22 of course, Fan Fiction, Red Meat, Just my Imagination. 

But those I really hated. One episode that seems to get a lot of praise whereas I`m just completely meh on it is Death`s Door. Because the ep lives on being invested in Bobby`s character and it falls apart if you don`t care. I do not find it offensive, just blank.

[Bessie]

My hidden gem is Clap Your Hands if You Believe. I know it's not even Sam and Dean is in the middle of a rough go, but it has so many comic moments.   Every time I watch it, I laugh out loud. Just thinking about Dean being hauled off by the police shouting to Souless to "fight the fairies!" makes me start laughing. It's not an epic episode or anything, but man it was so funny. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Bessie

[DeeDee79]

9 minutes ago, Bessie said:

My hidden gem is Clap Your Hands if You Believe. I know it's not even Sam and Dean is in the middle of a rough go, but it has so many comic moments.   Every time I watch it, I laugh out loud. Just thinking about Dean being hauled off by the police shouting to Souless to "fight the fairies!" makes me start laughing. It's not an epic episode or anything, but man it was so funny. 

Whenever I watch this episode I always crack up when Sam says "do you have bigger cups?" I don't know why but that always tickles me :)

[Bessie]

10 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Whenever I watch this episode I always crack up when Sam says "do you have bigger cups?" I don't know why but that always tickles me :)

Yes! And Dean blowing up the fairy in the microwave?  This whole episode just tickles my funny bone.

ETA: Just chatting about it makes me want to rewatch. Love this episode!

Edited November 5, 2017 by Bessie

[catrox14]

16 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

On the flipside of this interesting conversation starter by @ILoveReading what are the episodes that are praised by fandom & on most critics top ten lists that are just "meh" for you?  For me personally I would say Fan Fiction, Swan Song, The French Mistake & Changing Channels to be episodes that I found enjoyable but I don't seek out for rewatch or have the same love as fandom seems to.

That's funny, My list is the same but I loathe Swan Song, Fan Fiction I really dislike for demon!Dean truncation reasons but as a stand alone that I pretend has nothing to do with canon, it's okay. French Mistake is funny but I FAR prefer Frontierland (another hidden gem for me). I like parts of Changing Channels but have always disliked the Trickster/Gabriel reveal.

But others that get raves that I dislike are Sacrifice minus the angels falling scene which was really cool, Red Meat (hate).

[DeeDee79]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I like parts of Changing Channels but have always disliked the Trickster/Gabriel reveal.

I've never been too fond of Gabriel which is what brings this episode down for me. There's not much in Fan Fiction or Swan Song that I like but they're not terrible episodes *shrugs* I didn't know that people raved about Red Meat; that was an awful episode!

[Katy M]

44 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I've never been too fond of Gabriel which is what brings this episode down for me. There's not much in Fan Fiction or Swan Song that I like but they're not terrible episodes *shrugs* I didn't know that people raved about Red Meat; that was an awful episode!

I thought I was the only one who wasn't uber over the moon about Gabriel. I don't hate him or anything, but I don't really get fangushing over him.  And, I preferred it when he was just a trickster.  That said, I did enjoy the episode, although I found the end reveal to be long and annoying.  but, the rest of it cracked me up.  I especially loved the CSI: Miami spoof part.  

I liked Red Meat.  Sorry.

[Wayward Son]

The most overrated Supernatural episode ever (for me at least) is Nightshifter. It’s a generic hostage episode and passable at best! 

[catrox14]

50 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I've never been too fond of Gabriel which is what brings this episode down for me. There's not much in Fan Fiction or Swan Song that I like but they're not terrible episodes *shrugs* I didn't know that people raved about Red Meat; that was an awful episode!

Oh yeah Red Meat is hailed as a great brothers episode.

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I thought I was the only one who wasn't uber over the moon about Gabriel. I don't hate him or anything, but I don't really get fangushing over him. 

This baffles me also.

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Oh yeah Red Meat is hailed as a great brothers episode.

Ick!

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

The most overrated Supernatural episode ever (for me at least) is Nightshifter. It’s a generic hostage episode and passable at best! 

*sobbing*

[Pondlass1]

Clap your hands is a favourite of mine too.  I don't even have to fast forward through some scenes because they're all good.  When I rewatched this one I watch it all from beginning to end.

Sam not knowing he's supposed to be compassionate, and Dean not sitting on the bed, and tinkerbell. 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

The most overrated Supernatural episode ever (for me at least) is Nightshifter. It’s a generic hostage episode and passable at best! 

Shunnn the disbeliever (I'm kidding. 100 percent kidding.)

I like it because of Ronald and it's moodiness , Victor Henriksen, a fantastic fight between Dean and the shifter and the boys in real jeopardy legally by the end of the episode. Plus best music cue of the whole series IMO. I've always thought that would be  the episode to turn into a movie.

[DittyDotDot]

43 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh yeah Red Meat is hailed as a great brothers episode.

I don't really pay attention to all the online buzz anymore, but really? That kinda blows my mind because I don't remember it being all that well received, but maybe it's just because I didn't receive it well and I'm projecting? Interesting. 

44 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

The most overrated Supernatural episode ever (for me at least) is Nightshifter. It’s a generic hostage episode and passable at best! 

Well, I agree it's a generic set up, but I love it anyway. It's a nice fun diversion and we don't get many of those in later seasons, so that could be why it's looked on so fondly now?

40 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Clap your hands is a favourite of mine too.  I don't even have to fast forward through some scenes because they're all good.  When I rewatched this one I watch it all from beginning to end.

Sam not knowing he's supposed to be compassionate, and Dean not sitting on the bed, and tinkerbell. 

Clap Your Hands if You Believe is Edlund at his best, IMO!

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't really pay attention to all the online buzz anymore, but really? That kinda blows my mind because I don't remember it being all that well received, but maybe it's just because I didn't receive it well and I'm projecting? Interesting. 

Yeah it's got an 8.5 rating on IMDB out of 1500 + votes. (which yes SSS for all of fandom)

Twitter and Tumblr for the most part, seemed to have found it a glorious reminder of the "Great Love Story" of Dean and Sam via a Romeo and Juliet dynamic. Many fans thought it was the best thing that Dean killed himself to save Sam again and that Sam survived to save Dean.

I think the acting by Jensen was terrific in the scene where he though Sam was dead and was willing to go out by werewolf but boy I hate the episode myself. It's in my bottom 10 if not bottom 5 of all time. 

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Yeah it's got an 8.5 rating on IMDB out of 1500 + votes. (which yes SSS for all of fandom)

Twitter and Tumblr for the most part, seemed to have found it a glorious reminder of the "Great Love Story" of Dean and Sam via a Romeo and Juliet dynamic. Many fans thought it was the best thing that Dean killed himself to save Sam again and that Sam survived to save Dean.

I think the acting by Jensen was terrific in the scene where he though Sam was dead and was willing to go out by werewolf but boy I hate the episode myself. It's in my bottom 10 if not bottom 5 of all time. 

Well, I definitely didn't think it was great that Dean killed himself, but, on the other hand, I can't really take death too seriously on this show for some odd reason.  As you mentioned, Jensen's acting when Sam was dead (and I will never be convinced that he wasn't dead, I just don't know how he came back) was stellar.  I still liked Billie back then, so it was nice to see her. And, at the time, I thought her telling Dean that Sam was alive was being helpful, so that he would wake up, or whatever.  And, I thought the end where the wife said they told her she could go, but then asked where was she going to go, was a good scene also.  I like when we get to see at least a little bit of the effect on the guest stars.  

[AwesomO4000]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:20 PM, DeeDee79 said:

On the flipside of this interesting conversation starter by @ILoveReading what are the episodes that are praised by fandom & on most critics top ten lists that are just "meh" for you?  For me personally I would say Fan Fiction, Swan Song, The French Mistake & Changing Channels to be episodes that I found enjoyable but I don't seek out for rewatch or have the same love as fandom seems to.

Heh - I am so pedestrian, I guess. Every ep you listed is a favorite of mine (Except maybe "Swan Song"). ; )

I might get flack for some of these on my list, but I do have reasons, I promise. So episodes that are loved, on favorites lists, etc, but I find just meh (or worse): Phantom Traveler, Jus in Bello, Lazurus Rising, On the Head of a Pin, and Citizen Fang.

10 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I like it because of Ronald and it's moodiness , Victor Henriksen, a fantastic fight between Dean and the shifter and the boys in real jeopardy legally by the end of the episode. Plus best music cue of the whole series IMO. I've always thought that would be  the episode to turn into a movie.

That was a good music cue.

Other great music cues for me? Don't mind if I do ; ) : "Oh, Death" in Two Minutes to Midnight, "Go Ask Alice" in Hunted, "Behind Blue Eyes" in The Book of the Damned,"Heat of the Moment" from Mystery Spot, "Carry on Wayward Son" from Fan Fiction, the fake sitcom theme and that awesomely terrible "Bending spoons in my mind" song from "Changing Channels," "Spirit in the Sky" from "Good God, Y'All," and the Ghostfacers theme.

Anyone else?

Edited November 6, 2017 by AwesomO4000

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Heh - I am so pedestrian, I guess. Every ep you listed is a favorite of mine (Except maybe "Swan Song"). ; )

I might get flack for some of these on my list, but I do have reasons, I promise. So episodes that are loved, on favorites lists, etc, but I find just meh (or worse): Phantom Traveler, Jus in Bello, Lazurus Rising, On the Head of a Pin, and Citizen Fang.

That was a good music cue.

Other great music cues for me? Don't mind if I do ; ) : "Oh, Death" in Two Minutes to Midnight, "Go Ask Alice" in Hunted, "Behind Blue Eyes" in The Book of the Damned,"Heat of the Moment" from Mystery Spot, "Carry on Wayward Son" from Fan Fiction, the fake sitcom theme and that awesomely terrible "Bending spoons in my mind" song from "Changing Channels," "Spirit in the Sky" from "Good God, Y'All," and the Ghostfacers theme.

Anyone else?

Road So Far for the Hunter Games "Long Black Road"

Edited November 6, 2017 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

Ooh, yes... love me some ELO.

Oh and I forgot "Laugh, Laugh, I Nearly Died" from Bloody Mary and "Playing With Fire" from The Man Who Knew Too Much. Loved both of those, too.

I must say that this show has some great musical cues. Reminds me of Crossing Jordan* and Cold Case*** in that way. Miami Vice also had great music cues, but in a entirely different way.

* Which I credit for introducing me to John Hiatt and his "Thirty Years of Tears"

*** Which I didn't watch a lot, but had some good musical cues when I did.

Edited November 6, 2017 by AwesomO4000

[DeeDee79]

8 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

That was a good music cue.

Other great music cues for me? Don't mind if I do ; ) : "Oh, Death" in Two Minutes to Midnight, "Go Ask Alice" in Hunted, "Behind Blue Eyes" in The Book of the Damned,"Heat of the Moment" from Mystery Spot, "Carry on Wayward Son" from Fan Fiction, the fake sitcom theme and that awesomely terrible "Bending spoons in my mind" song from "Changing Channels," "Spirit in the Sky" from "Good God, Y'All," and the Ghostfacers theme.

Anyone else?

"Rooster" in Folsom Prison Blues & "Miracles" in Mommy Dearest are two good ones :)

[AwesomO4000]

6 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

"Miracles" in Mommy Dearest are two good ones :)

Oh yes.

I entirely did not see that reveal coming. I was completely surprised in a really good way.

[Res]

"Don't Fear The Reaper" in Faith.

[DeeDee79]

14 minutes ago, Res said:

"Don't Fear The Reaper" in Faith.

Yes! That's one of my favorites!

5 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Oh yes.

I entirely did not see that reveal coming. I was completely surprised in a really good way.

Me too! I could accept that Crowley may have survived but I never saw the Crowley and Cas partnership coming.

[Jeddah]

I have a ridiculously long Supernatural playlist on my phone. It’s hard just to pick a few musical moments. I agree with everything everyone else has said! 

“In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida” is super creepy at the beginning of Skin. I like “Rock of Ages” in Swan Song. One of my favorite Road So Far moments is “Time Has Come Today” in Everybody Loves a Clown. It’s timed so perfectly over the scene of John’s deal. “Back in Black” is perfect for Baby’s return in Bloodlust. I think that’s the first time Dean called her Baby on the show.

There are also a lot of musical moments on this show that are funny. “Poison” by Bell Biv Devoe for Garth’s entrance in Party On, Garth always makes me laugh. Dean mowing the lawn to The Ramones’ “What a Wonderful World” in What Is and What Should Never Be. Dean liking “Shake It Off” at the end or About a Boy. And of course “Eye of the Tiger” at the end of Yellow Fever!

Edited November 7, 2017 by Jeddah

[Res]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

I have an ridiculously long Supernatural playlist on my phone. It’s hard just to pick a few musical moments. I agree with everything everyone else has said! 

“In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida” is super creepy at the beginning of Skin. I like “Rock of Ages” in Swan Song. One of my favorite Road So Far moments is “Time Has Come Today” In Everybody Loves a Clown. It’s timed so perfectly over the scene of John’s deal. “Back in Black” is perfect for Baby’s return in Bloodlust. I think that’s the first time Dean called her Baby on the show.

There’s also a lot of musical moments on this show that are funny. Poison” by Bell Biv Devoe for Garth’s a trance in Party On, Garth always makes me laugh. Dean liking “Shake It Off” at the end or About a Boy. And of course “Eye of the Tiger” at the end of Yellow Fever!

I agree with all of these except "Shake It Off". That song should have NEVER been on the show, IMO, for ANY reason. Still really ticked they had it on, much less Dean liking it. 

[Jeddah]

12 minutes ago, Res said:

I agree with all of these except "Shake It Off". That song should have NEVER been on the show, IMO, for ANY reason. Still really ticked they had it on, much less Dean liking it. 

Wow, it sounds like you really hate that song! And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate. ;)

[Res]

27 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Wow, it sounds like you really hate that song! And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate. ;)

I might not have hated it so much if Glass hadn't insisted on changing Dean's musical taste to make him like one of his daughter's favorite songs. That right it is exactly what is wrong with the writers we have. Lol canon and characterizations based on whatever whim floats their boat at any particular moment. That was a major tick off moment for me.

[DittyDotDot]

8 hours ago, Res said:

I might not have hated it so much if Glass hadn't insisted on changing Dean's musical taste to make him like one of his daughter's favorite songs. That right it is exactly what is wrong with the writers we have. Lol canon and characterizations based on whatever whim floats their boat at any particular moment. That was a major tick off moment for me.

 I generally will listen to anything and I kinda loathe the song. However, I was fine with it's use on the show. Dean didn't change his musical taste; he just expanded his musical taste a teensy weensy bit. I'm okay with that. As we grow and change our taste usually grow and change too.