OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

[KingOfHearts]

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I think "Once" could go into the realm of Sci-fi at some point if there were a Season 11... a sameness 1984 type world.  It wouldn't be too bad as a half-season adventure.

I could see OUAT visiting all kinds of genres. George Orwell, Shakespeare, Wild West... we could do an entire arc on the Land Without Color, and see Dracula, Sleepy Hollow, etc. We could also see the romanticized versions of different periods in history, similarly to how the Enchanted Forest is a version of the medieval ages or Fictional Victorian England.

It would be neat to have a spinoff that works as an anthology, with every season focusing on a different realm, similarly to Once: Wonderland. We could get cameos from the other characters we know. (e.g. Whale shows up in the Land Without Color and knows Ichabod.)

Edited March 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Emerald City just finished tonight with its season finale. It was crap and sucked so hard.  The main problems were two things: 1) lots of story setups were not followed up on at all, and 2) there were contrived twists that didn't add any value. Over the season, there were many mysteries, which meant the reveals had to be satisfying. They weren't, so anyone who watched is left with a sour taste in their mouth. The finale was probably written with a second season in mind, which, let's face, ain't happening. So many plot threads were left up in the air and now they'll never be resolved.

I just finished it, and wow, the arrogance of the writers in assuming they'd get a second season.  

 

58 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

It would be neat to have a spinoff that works as an anthology, with every season focusing on a different realm, similarly to Once: Wonderland. We could get cameos from the other characters we know. (e.g. Whale shows up in the Land Without Color and knows Ichabod.)

If "Once" had a proper final season, it would be nice to have an anthology spinoff.  I'm sure even the main actors of "Once" wouldn't mind coming back once in a while for a cameo or two.  But now it looks like we may get zero closure.

[daxx]

I fell asleep during Emerald City last night, I'll have to watch it again today. I have to say of the two new shows I started this year Timeless is far superior to EC.

[KingOfHearts]

I was posting on the Emerald City board about how the showrunners had an idea in mind, and centered things around that without making sure it worked as a coherent story. EC's concept is, "It's Wizard of Oz, but it's like Game of Thrones". The whole show centered around a political struggle, instead of a character wanting something but a conflict getting in the way. Dorothy's quest to get home is in there, but it's never the main focus. Huge amounts of time are spent on the powers that be in Oz, but their narrative is fragmented. It's more of a history than a fictional story. Their motivations are shrouded in mystery so much that they can't drive the plot from a character point of view. They're essentially chess pieces.

OUAT's dilemma is similar, but the idea is its own - "What if the Evil Queen could get her happy ending in our world?" The entire show was conceived from this thought, according to A&E. Because everything revolves around that, time and plot has to be allocated for it. Regina, like the political figures in Oz, is quintessential. However, Emma, like Dorothy, is built more like a protagonist. She has the more specific goals and a journey to go on. These two characters (Emma and Regina) will always be at war for the spotlight because one is the idea and one is the main character, and both construct a story's very fabric. Usually the main character is a major part of the idea, but that's not the case in either show. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

14 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Emerald City just finished tonight with its season finale. It was crap and sucked so hard.  The main problems were two things: 1) lots of story setups were not followed up on at all, and 2) there were contrived twists that didn't add any value.

My main problem with the show was that midway through the finale, I said to myself, "I don't like any of these people. I want them all to wipe each other out." I think they went too far into the attempted Game of Thrones direction with that, but at least there, some of the really awful people are charismatic and interesting enough that you want to see what they do, and there are a couple of people you want to win rather than just hoping they all wipe each other out.

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

"What if the Evil Queen could get her happy ending in our world?" The entire show was conceived from this thought, according to A&E. Because everything revolves around that, time and plot has to be allocated for it.

The problem here is that this isn't actually a plot, but that's probably a topic for the writing thread.

[Spartan Girl]

I read the noveliization of the live action Beauty and the Beast remake and among other things they give the Beast a more detailed backstory of his pre-curse life. Basically

his mother died when he was a boy and his father abused him, and the servants failed to do anything to stop it hence why he became selfish and unkind (and why Mrs Potts and all the others got cursed with him).

. Reminded me a little bit of the sob stories OUAT gives the villains, but it is nowhere near as bad as that. It doesn't excuse his bad behavior, it just explains it. I mean

most abused children grow up to be as bad as their parents if there's no intervention. And unlike Rumple, the Beast does wind up turning his life around; even at his worst, he's not power hungry and manipulative. Plus, 

he's no killer, as evidenced by the fight with Gaston.

[tennisgurl]

18 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Richard's main problem was that he was so oblivious and selfish that it never seemed to strike him that other people might suffer from the things he did for fun (basically, Regina, but with a comic twist).

That's why I felt like Richard had a better redemption arc than Regina ever get, and why I bought him becoming friends with the heroes, and its never really worked with me for Regina. Richard did bad things, but it was mostly out of stupidity and selfishness. He never really came off as actively malicious and evil. Regina frequently came off as malicious and evil, and was totally aware that she was hurting people. Richard seemed to be honestly shocked that the evil things he did made people hate him. Regina just didn't care. Plus, its a comedy, so its easier to play bad guy behavior for laughs and still have us like them.

I watched all of Emerald City, and while the plot basically fell apart, I will give them credit for creating a fantasy world that actually seemed like a fantasy world, and not just a boring forest. It was creative and full of interesting settings, and I will give them credit for that. As others have said, I would love to see the Once crew go to a futuristic dystopia, a James Bond style spy universe, a Star Wars style sci fi world, things like that, or even explore other mythologies and folk lore's from different cultures. It would be interesting seeing people used to magic having to deal with completely different tropes and rules, and working with people from different worlds, and a villain with a totally different skill set or goal. Having all the worlds they go to be basically the same is boring as hell.

[Camera One]

I'm re-reading "Through the Looking Glass" before I watch the movie, and this ridiculous discussion made me think of Adam and Jane and their "explanations" of what's real or fake.

 Tweedledum said.... "You know very well you're not real."

"I am real!" said Alice and began to cry.

"You won't make yourself a bit realler by crying," Tweedledee remarked...

"If I wasn't real," Alice said - half laughing through her tears, it all seemed so ridiculous - ' I shouldn't be able to cry."

"I hope you don't suppose those are real tears" Tweedledum interrupted in a tone of great contempt.

"I know they're talking nonsense," Alice thought to herself: 'and it's foolish to cry about it."

Edited March 6, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

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I'm re-reading "Through the Looking Glass" before I watch the movie, and this ridiculous discussion made me think of Adam and Jane and their "explanations" of what's real or fake.

You think the movie is actually based on the book? ;)

The writers do remind me of the people Alice meets in Wonderland. Most of their responses are condescending, nonsensical, and just absurd. Water is dry, the sky isn't blue. They'll keep trying to convince of you that for all eternity.

Edited March 6, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

So, now we've got even more connection points to the Buffyverse.

We've got our snarky blonde who's the destined, chosen one with magical specialness who has the world on her shoulders and can't live a normal life. I think the original version of the Savior concept -- where it was specific to the Dark Curse, with Emma's DNA being woven into it as a backdoor to allow her to break it -- was less Buffy-like. But they definitely went into Buffy territory when they made being a Savior a general-purpose destiny-type role, and now they're making it sound like a One in Every Generation sort of thing.

Hook is a blend of Angel and Spike -- snarky, brooding black-leather wearing former villain who's older than he looks.

There was the whole plot arc of our Chosen One's former-villain love interest being turned evil again due to an act of love, then turning good again just before our heroine has to run him through with a sword in order to banish the great evil. And then he gets brought back to life by higher powers.

From the Angel series, we had the character who lost his hand and used a prosthetic who got a real hand that had an evil influence on him. And now we've got the infant sent away with the belief that this was getting him away from his dangerous father, only to have him sent to a hell dimension, so that when he came back a short time later, he was grown up and a real badass. Though at least in this case he wasn't brought up to kill his father, and he hated the person who stole him and brought him up instead of being more loyal to that person than to his parents.

[Dianthus]

Angel is Neal:

Her 1st love, who is older than he looks, who is not immediately forthcoming about who/what he is. He betrays her (unintentionally) and leaves her emotionally traumatized.

By contrast:

Spike is introduced as a villain in s2, he's with a female companion, and he's willing to switch sides (temporarily) to get what he wants.

[Camera One]

I watched "Time After Time" without having seen the movie, and I generally found it watchable.   I enjoyed the first bit with HG Well's adjustment to being in modern times.  It was interesting to see someone from the late 1800s experiencing modern-day, versus medieval people seeing modern-day (as in "Once", not that they ever explore it).  I did find the pilot slightly annoying in that the hero was so dense, while the villain (Jack the Ripper) was so suave.  It could become boring with the dumb cat chasing the supersmart and fortunate mouse ad nauseum.

And then I made the mistake of reading an interview... I think you'll realize what got me rolling my eyes. 

Quote

What excited series star Bowman about bringing the iconic killer Jack the Ripper to life was not how evil the character was, but how "misunderstood" the actor believes he is. 

"I don't think he's evil at all. I thought it was a good opportunity to do something different than [Revenge]," Bowman says. "It's a different world, I think it's an ambitious project. We're dealing with sci-fi, which isn't usually my cup of tea, but again, it's something that was different. And the reduced order of episodes was also something that was more specific than having a 22-episode order." 

According to executive producer Kevin Williamson, viewers will learn more about John's past and why he is the way he is in upcoming episodes."He's just misunderstood. You can't look at a character as pure evil," Williamson says. "When I think about John Stevenson I think about more — you have to look at the biography... As a writer, I take it all the way back to the parents and what happened, what damaged him and what created this.

Yes, we know, serial killers are just misunderstood.  Looks like a perfect combo with "Once Upon a Time".  Mass Murderer Sundays... on ABC.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Camera One

[daxx]

Ok I was planning on trying it, it's on the TiVo. But I think I'll cancel my one pass and delete it. I don't want another misunderstood villain.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

What excited series star Bowman about bringing the iconic killer Jack the Ripper to life was not how evil the character was, but how "misunderstood" the actor believes he is. 

He "misunderstood" that you just can't kill people willy-nilly.  Same as Regina.  That's all.  Poor Things.  

[Souris]

4 hours ago, daxx said:

Ok I was planning on trying it, it's on the TiVo. But I think I'll cancel my one pass and delete it. I don't want another misunderstood villain.

Also, the ratings make it DOA, so no point getting attached.

[Shanna Marie]

Yeah, I was on the fence about Time After Time. I love time travel and liked the cast, but I also found the pilot to be rather boring. But hearing the "misunderstood mass murderer" thing turns me off entirely. I could buy the "misunderstood" thing for someone who just has a nasty personality, someone who's got a short temper, is overly sensitive, maybe someone who's greedy or stingy, since those are things that can be shaped by your circumstances and experiences. But there are plenty of people who've had absolutely terrible lives who don't end up carving people up for fun or slaughtering villages. Anyone who goes that far doesn't get to hide behind "misunderstood."

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

But hearing the "misunderstood mass murderer" thing turns me off entirely.

Regina and Jack the Ripper ship? No? Okay. I see, "mass murderer", and think, "Oh, that would be a perfect match for Regina!" I probably need help.

Finished S5 of BTVS, and I thought it was a major improvement over S4. It wasn't as good as S2 or S3, but as a standard Big Bad arc, it functioned well. Dawn became less annoying as things went along, which helped tremendously. Killing Buffy a second time didn't resonate with me, because no one would ever expect her to be gone for more than five minutes. Not even the Scoobies, apparently. The climax had plenty of momentum, but it didn't have the emotional punch that Graduation Day or The Becoming had. The whole Glory arc was very reminiscent of OUAT. Can I ship her with Hades?!

I'm debating on whether or not to skip the majority of S6, because from what I hear it's the worst season. I definitely watch to see Once More with Feeling, but I really don't want to watch Willow go psycho, a certain someone to die, and the Doublemeat Palace. I have the gist of the plot already, and I only have a few weeks to finish the series before it goes off of Netflix.

On another topic, I just rewatched 2A of OUAT. It's funny to me how obviously it ripped off Lost. The EF survivors are the tail section peeps, and they even have "the pit". Starting in 2B, the show dropped the "trying to be Lost" angle, and that may have been a contributing factor to the drop in quality. 
 

Edited March 9, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Yeah, I totally got "Lost" vibes at the very beginning of 2A.  All that trekking from one place to another was reminiscent as well.

 

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm debating on whether or not to skip the majority of S6, because from what I hear it's the worst season. I definitely watch to see Once More with Feeling, but I really don't want to watch Willow go psycho, a certain someone to die, and the Doublemeat Palace. I have the gist of the plot already, and I only have a few weeks to finish the series before it goes off of Netflix.

I personally liked 6A.  I think they did a decent job of showing Buffy deal with death (a real contrast to what we had on "Once").   Season 6 also has some humorous elements. There's really no reason to jump ahead because the final season was one of the worst of any shows I've watched to completion.  I would just go as far as you can.  I'm curious when you will reach a "jump the shark" moment (if ever) and if you think it ever recovered.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Camera One

[superloislane]

5 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm debating on whether or not to skip the majority of S6, because from what I hear it's the worst season

Season 6 is THE WORST. It's so depressing and Joss Whedon claimed the big bad of season 6 was 'life itself' or whatever he said. Although there are a few great episodes scattered around and most of them are in the first half like Once More With Feeling, Life Serial and Tabula Rasa which all have very funny moments in them. It's also the season where I started to absolutely HATE Xander even though I liked him before this so if you hate him already...but if you've gotten this far you might as well watch it all.

And I may be in the minority but I genuinely enjoyed season 7.

Edited March 10, 2017 by superloislane

[Shanna Marie]

5 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Killing Buffy a second time didn't resonate with me, because no one would ever expect her to be gone for more than five minutes. Not even the Scoobies, apparently.

At the time, it was actually rather shocking. When they filmed the season 5 finale, there was no guarantee of another season. Renewal negotiations with the WB broke down entirely, and it was only a last-second move to UPN that saved the show.

I would agree to forge ahead with season 6. It may have been really bad in places, but at least it was interesting bad. I don't remember much of season 7. You'll probably see some OUAT parallels with season 6.

It's funny, I posted the thing about the "misunderstood" Jack the Ripper from Time After Time to Facebook, with a rant about hating the misunderstood villain trope, and in the lengthy discussion that followed, one of my former co-workers, with whom I've never discussed OUAT, brought up this show as yet another example of the misunderstood villain.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

At the time, it was actually rather shocking. When they filmed the season 5 finale, there was no guarantee of another season. Renewal negotiations with the WB broke down entirely, and it was only a last-second move to UPN that saved the show.

I'm not meta-aware, so that helps. It's weird to think that could have been the series finale, because it really didn't feel like one at all.

[Camera One]

Joss Whedon said he had Season 6 planned out long before they decided to change networks.  

Now that you like Dawn, you'd probably appreciate this quote

TVGO: If and when the day comes that Sarah leaves the show, would you retitle it Dawn the Vampire Slayer?

Whedon: What I would do with it is hard to say, but that's certainly a show I'd watch. Michelle [Trachtenberg] is a powerhouse. I have the best ensemble that I could ever hope to work with. It could happen, but if it did, it wouldn't be for years because Sarah's coming back.

http://www.buffyguide.com/extras/jossfinale.shtml

[Shanna Marie]

41 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Joss Whedon said he had Season 6 planned out long before they decided to change networks.  

He had it planned, but I don't think he knew for certain that he'd get to carry out that plan until after the episode aired, or at least they hadn't announced it. It kind of came down to the wire because everyone was playing hardball with negotiations, so viewers weren't entirely sure of the status of the show when that happened. Knowing Joss, he may have done that on purpose so that the death would have more impact and we might even believe that she really was dead for good. He does have a habit of using real-life situations in the storytelling, like using an actor's departure as an excuse to kill a character in order to raise suspense levels.

Then there was the problem that UPN had a much narrower reach than the WB had, so for some people, that was the end of the show. I taped Buffy episodes to send to a friend who lived in a market without a UPN station. This was back in the day when few people had enough bandwidth for file sharing to do anything like BitTorrent to get episodes that way. You needed a friend with a VCR. Or, in my case, two VCRs to be able to copy tapes.

ETA ... Now that I recall, I think the WB was part of what made it seem like a final finale at the end of season 5 of Buffy, since they had no incentive whatsoever to make sure everyone knew the show would be continuing on another network. As I recall, they promoted that episode as the end of the series. It may or may not have actually been officially announced that it was moving to UPN, but WB was done with it and treated it like a series finale.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Shanna Marie

[Trini]

19 hours ago, Camera One said:

Yes, we know, serial killers are just misunderstood.

I was all set to defend Barrowman*, but then I saw that the showrunner is viewing him this way, too. I'm still going to check out a few episodes, though.

*I've seen this with other actors; I think it's just the way they get into the role. They try to look at it from the villain's point of view - who usually doesn't see him/herself as a villain.

[Camera One]

It was WB who lost by no longer having the show and it was the parent company who decided to sell it to the higher bidder UPN.  So I would think Joss knew the show would survive somehow (especially if he clearly states he already knew the plot for the next season).  Fox network was also in line to snap the show up.  It's possible that he wasn't sure if the actress would agree to stay for more seasons since she didn't want to be on the show anymore.  

With "Time After Time", there were even more similarities to "Once" because H.G. Wells was very Snow-like with the no-violence policy, as if having a chat with John would have made him go back to face jail.  It was so naive that it was frustrating to watch.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

It was WB who lost by no longer having the show and it was the parent company who decided to sell it to the higher bidder UPN.  So I would think Joss knew the show would survive somehow (especially if he clearly states he already knew the plot for the next season).

Yeah, I think Joss knew, and the news maybe was even out to obsessed fans who looked for that sort of information, but the general audience wasn't entirely aware that the show would be continuing on another network. When WB lost the show, they were kind of tacky about it. I remember having to reassure people who thought the series had ended with Buffy's death.

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I was all set to defend Barrowman*, but then I saw that the showrunner is viewing him this way, too.

I wouldn't have minded if it were just the actor because the actor has to get into his character's head, and villains seldom see themselves as villains. They can justify and rationalize what they're doing, and the actor playing the role has to be able to internalize that rationalization. But when the writers are taking the "misunderstood villain" approach, then we've got problems.

[Camera One]

Disney uploaded the entire Beauty and the Beast soundtrack onto their Youtube channel, so I'm listening to them.  Most of the voices seem pretty good, with the exception of Belle and Gaston.  I'm just trying to banish the "Once" versions of the characters from my mind... must do a cleanse of some sort.

[CCTC]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

Most of the voices seem pretty good, with the exception of Belle and Gaston.

Unfortunately, those are some pretty big exceptions since Belle is the female lead and Gaston has what should be a big show-stopper number.  I like Emma Watson, but if she does not have a strong voice, they should have cast someone else.

[Camera One]

I'm just hesitant since maybe their voices are okay but I'm just not used to them since they differ from the animated versions.  For example, Gaston's voice is not as much of a bass here.  Maybe it will work better when watched and not just heard.  I would also add The Beast to the not musically trained group, though he was given a new solo song.  There seems to be some digital alteration to make the voice more gruff or something.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Camera One

[CCTC]

Yes - I think when you have seen a movie or listened to a soundtrack a number of times, it is always an adjustment to hear different interpretations esp. if the show is something from your childhood.  I flip-flop on thinking it looks good and wanting to see it.  to thinking I would rather just re-watch the original.

[oncebluethrone]

I've been listening to the soundtrack as well and have found it to quite good.  However, I have decided not to compare it to the animated version's and treat it as its own music.  I think everyone sounds good, including Belle.  Yes, her voice is edited the most, but I think that was because the editors were scared of it not being "perfect".  It still sounds good underneath the auto-tune though.

As far as the casting for Belle goes, I think Emma was the perfect choice for her character-wise.

[Shanna Marie]

I think I'll wait to see the movie before listening to the soundtrack because the sound separated from the visuals is always going to be a bit weird when you're used to something else. Put it with the visuals, and it clicks better because it's in context. You're also going to notice more of the details of the singing, tone, tune, technique when the sound is isolated than when you're watching the character sing in the context of the movie.

[pezgirl7]

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

Disney uploaded the entire Beauty and the Beast soundtrack onto their Youtube channel, so I'm listening to them.  Most of the voices seem pretty good, with the exception of Belle and Gaston.

Wow, I actually think Gaston has the best voice. Yea, it's not as deep, but that doesn't really bother me. Luke Evans has the most singing experience out of anyone on the cast. I actually think his voice sounds the loveliest in Belle. In The Mob Song, his voice is very menacing, which fits the song. And in Gaston, when he hits the high note on "barge", it give me shivers. For me, the weakest is Emma on the Belle song, just because of how auto-tuned it sounds, and Ewan on Be Our Guest. The Beast's deep voice was a little strange at first, but it makes sense for it to be deep. I think once I actually hear the music in the film, it'll all sound better!

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think I'll wait to see the movie before listening to the soundtrack because the sound separated from the visuals is always going to be a bit weird when you're used to something else. Put it with the visuals, and it clicks better because it's in context. You're also going to notice more of the details of the singing, tone, tune, technique when the sound is isolated than when you're watching the character sing in the context of the movie.

I thought the soundtrack sounded more organic, for lack of a better term. It's strange, because even without the visuals, it "sounds" more like live action. Maybe it's less stylized or comedic.

[Shanna Marie]

I'm afraid I'm going to be listening for Ewan's French accent, ever since seeing him do an interview talking about what a struggle that was for him, which he found odd and amusing, given that his wife is French, so he's been living with a French accent for decades. His problem seemed to be that they wanted Lumiere to be more stereotypically comedy French, as opposed to real French, and I guess if you live with real French on a daily basis, it would feel weird to do the more comic fake style. Apparently, he had to re-record a lot of stuff to find the right balance and to get it sounding just French enough -- his first attempt sounded more Mexican. He's normally so good at accents, but he found this one very frustrating. And then imagine singing in a fake version of a fake accent when the real version is what you hear every day.

I saw the guy who did the voice of Gaston for the cartoon version playing Lancelot in Camelot on stage. Swoon. Especially for "If Ever I Would Leave You." I think that was the production that had Robert Goulet as Arthur.

I think it will help in seeing the movie that I've been going back and forth between the cartoon version soundtrack and the Broadway soundtrack and have seen the stage version a couple of times, so there's no one true version stuck in my head. Dan Stevens has the toughest job for me in living up to Terrence Mann (swoon) from the Broadway version.

[Spartan Girl]

I listened to it and I loved Ewan. But I'm another that decided not to compare it to the original. Besides, I've waited YEARS for him to do another musical, so I'm a bit biased.

[Camera One]

I just watched "Ella Enchanted".  I thought it was alright.  The characters were likeable (which was the only saving grace), but the premise that Ella was required to obey any command got really irritating to watch before the halfway mark.  There was zero comeuppance for the cruelty of her stepsister or the horrible fairy godmother who gave her the "gift".  The movie did remind me how fun an adventure in an Enchanted Realm could be, so once again, it was a reminder of how much "Once" wastes its premise.  They also did a good job of giving the prince a character journey.

Edit: Turns out the comeuppance for the stepsister and stepmother occurred in a deleted sequence that takes place at Ella's wedding.  It's quite a shame they cut it because it basically provides an epilogue for all the characters.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Camera One

[Spartan Girl]

Anyone catch the new Tangled Before Ever After cartoon on Disney? Good show so far, and I'm happy they got the original voices!

[Dianthus]

This year marks the 20th anniversary of BtVS, and there are articles out there ranking all the episodes, or discussing various aspects of the show, or people talking about what the show meant to them personally. An interesting article I read earlier today talked about s6 and The Trio/geek misogyny and tied it to the whole Gamergate thing. I thought Tabula Rasa did a really good job of balancing silly and serious. Normal Again is an interesting look at an alternate idea of "heaven." s6 is dark, but it shows an important part of Buffy's development.

The Gift relies heavily on metaphor (as did the whole show, really). A young woman bleeding and in pain? Menses. Buffy sacrificing herself for Dawnie? The sacrifice of all the sister/mothers who came before us. I understand Buffy's headstone was something the studio wanted. Hard to pretend Buffy's still alive that way.

[Camera One]

I realized I actually haven't watched too many of the recent Pixar movies.  I decided to watch "Inside Out", and I liked it.  The concept was clever and the results were pretty poignant.  

It got me thinking what they would see if there was an animated version with the "Once" characters.  Regina's "Anger" and "Disgust" would clearly be off the charts.  From the control center of Emma's mind, you could probably see The Great Wall.  Snow clearly dumped all the memories about Regina's atrocities towards her in the dump of forgotten memories.  

I did find it funny how the emotion was "Hope" was cut from the movie.  "Schadenfreude" was also cut (or maybe the director was joking), and that's pretty much Regina and Rumple in a nutshell.

[Camera One]

I finished re-reading "Through the Looking Glass", and then watched the movie.  You were so right I needn't have bothered.  What a tease at the beginning when she jumped onto a chess board with Humpty Dumpty and the moving chess set.  That was pretty much it for anything from the book.  I guess the only thing that made it palatable was seeing some of the same actors again, but overall, it wasn't worth it for the long running time.

I agree this movie was weak.  Half it was really boring and the other half was off-putting.  The second novel had so much weirdness that it's strange the filmmakers felt they could write something more intriguing or clever.  The Time Lord and Alice's endless journeys through space was boring.  I generally like time travel, but you guys weren't kidding when you said this was "Once" Lite, complete with the lying "good" sister, the victimized villain and a village massacre.  I thought the writer Linda Woolverton must have been great, having done such an amazing job with the animated "Beauty and the Beast" and "The Lion King", but those must have been team efforts with a lot of oversight.  After this movie and "Maleficent", clearly, she comes from the A&E School of Writing.  And yikes, I just saw on IMDB that there's going to be a "Maleficent 2".  Can't wait to find out who victimizes poor Fifi this time.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Camera One

[Camera One]

This is an interesting interview with Alan Menken about cutting out a favorite song from the stage musical in the new movie, and adding new songs, plus about the inexperience of Emma Watson and Dan Stevens in terms of singing:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/entertainment/movies/alan-menken-on-cuts-adds-and-intimidating-emma-watson-416146764.html

Edited March 14, 2017 by Camera One

[CCTC]

58 minutes ago, Camera One said:

This is an interesting interview with Alan Menken about cutting out a favorite song from the stage musical in the new movie, and adding new songs, plus about the inexperience of Emma Watson and Dan Stevens in terms of singing:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/entertainment/movies/alan-menken-on-cuts-adds-and-intimidating-emma-watson-416146764.html

I noticed the two songs cuts were longer solos by the leads that required long sustained notes and a certain amount of range.

[Shanna Marie]

Aw, they cut my two favorite songs from the Broadway version, but I guess that means I won't be comparing this cast to the Broadway cast. And poor Dan Stevens won't have to compete with Terrence Mann.

It's funny, as many actors as there are who are also singers and who work in musical theater, many of them big names, and they keep casting non-singers in musicals. I'm looking at you, Mamma Mia (which I got through on HBO only with the help of the mute button).

[Curio]

If the show ends this season, I'm just going to pretend that Emma and Hook's souls transferred into Rapunzel and Eugene and continue watching Tangled: The Series as if it's a reboot of OUAT. I just watched the first episode and they're practically the same characters. 

[Shanna Marie]

24 minutes ago, Curio said:

If the show ends this season, I'm just going to pretend that Emma and Hook's souls transferred into Rapunzel and Eugene and continue watching Tangled: The Series as if it's a reboot of OUAT.

It's a series? I recorded the thing that came on over the weekend but haven't had a chance to watch it (I stumbled upon the Sunday-afternoon repeat near the end and recorded the Monday airing).

[Curio]

Quote

It's a series? I recorded the thing that came on over the weekend but haven't had a chance to watch it (I stumbled upon the Sunday-afternoon repeat near the end and recorded the Monday airing).

 

It is indeed. I think it premiered with a one-hour "movie" special last week, but the rest of the episodes are your regular half hour Disney shows. I'm actually kind of excited because a surprising amount of the original voice cast returned, the new 2D style of animation is gorgeous, and the writers actually seem to be pretty detailed about staying true to the original movie.

Quote

Anyone catch the new Tangled Before Ever After cartoon on Disney? Good show so far, and I'm happy they got the original voices!

@Spartan Girl, I totally missed your comment! I enjoyed it a lot. (Is there a forum to discuss it here?) Just about the only thing I didn't enjoy was the new shoehorned friend, but I could see why the producers wanted to add more gals to the cast since the show is kind of male heavy.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Curio

[Camera One]

They should make a cartoon about the Rapunzel on "Once".

[Camera One]

Interesting article about how lucrative live-action movies can be, despite a few duds.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-15/with-beauty-poised-for-1-billion-disney-readies-more-remakes

"Despite a couple misses, the strategy has proven a better bet for the live-action studio than trying to create new legends."

Yes.  Keep "Once" on the air!  

[Camera One]

In that interview about "Time After Time" above, the showrunners said they will incorporate storylines from H.G. Well's books, so I'm reading all his books... I think I will still watch the series after that despite the "misunderstood" villain.  That is, if the show doesn't get cancelled by the third or fourth episode.  Not sure why I bother re-reading stuff when shows almost always don't respect the source material, but that's the Belle in me.  Uh, wait a minute... "Once Upon a Time" has made that comparison into a total insult.

I'm surprised none of H.G. Well's stories were explored in The Land of Untold Stories.  Seemed like the perfect place for that.  

I'm hoping we will still get to see Paul Bunyan, The Three Musketeers, Gulliver's Travels and The Water Babies in 6B (I'm just kidding, by the way... no thanks).

Speaking of which, I found this interesting from this article:

If lead star Jennifer Morrison, who plays Emma Swan in the series, were to be asked who to include in the next season line-up, she would definitely choose Mary Poppins.

"I think the problem is that the characters I lean toward and liked from childhood are very happy, loving characters, which don't really bring a lot of conflict. I'm not sure if my wish list is going to get fulfilled," she told Parade.

---

LOL, what are you saying, Jennifer Morrison?  There are no happy loving characters on "Once"?  She is so right.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Camera One