Serenity (2005 Movie)

[Lisin]

Whelp. Here we are folks, the end of the rewatch, and we get the movie. Look, I get that the movie is exciting, and I get that it's a coup that it got made and it's thanks in a large part to the tenacity of the fans and the sales of the DVDs and all of that stuff. I know all of it and I appreciate all of it and Chiwetel Ejiofor is amazing in it and it's great, everyone came back and all of that. But. Wash. I'm sorry. No. I can't even talk about it. This movie made me so upset. I realize it's good and I realize it's Joss but I take no real joy in watching it because I can't deal with Wash being gone. 

[jhlipton]

It wasn't just Wash that ruined the movie for me, although that was a big part of it. It was also the origin of the Reavers -- BigPharma made them into these monsters! Wouldn't the drugs wear off in time, and why would someone exposed to them turn into one. That whole section of plot just STUNK!

And everything about "The Operative" just seemed like a rip-off of Jubal Early, only not as awesome.

Just yeccccccccch!

Edited May 17, 2014 by jhlipton

[mstaken]

I'm so relieved to know that I'm not alone in my relative meh-ness on the movie. In addition to agreeing with everything brought up by jhlipton, something about the overall tone and feel just felt 'off' to me, for lack of a better way of putting it.

 

I think Whedon had some very tough challenges here: How much sci-fi/space vs. western? To what extent should the film cater to established fans vs. trying to catch up prospective new ones? Should the story be mostly self-contained or leave the door open for future installments? How the heck do I balance such a large cast to the point where every character and relationship feels well-defined to an audience who might not have met them before now? Can I ever NOT toss in a couple of semi-gratuitous deaths?!, etc. Given these inherent issues, I'm not sure I could realistically expect the results to be all that much better than they were, but I just didn't love and connect to the film like I did to the series. I'm far less likely to want to rewatch the movie than any episode of Firefly----with the very possible exception of Heart of Gold. I know many people who preferred the fan to almost any episode of the series, though, so mileage definitely varies!  

[Danny Franks]

Well, I love the movie.

 

Love the further development in the Mal/River relationship, that quasi-parental bond taking firmer shape. The connection that River seems to have with him is really interesting, and I often wonder whether it was something about Mal that was special or whether it was just due to the circumstances of him being captain of the ship, the main authority figure in River's new life.

 

The other big relationships from the show get addressed in something approaching satisfactory manner, too. Kaylee and Simon finally get to be together, "as in... sex", Mal and Inara almost address whatever it is that's going on between them, and offer a slither of hope for their future (thought I doubt it would ever work out). The moments of camaraderie between Mal and Simon, or Jayne and Simon, really feel earned both by the plot of the movie and by the series that preceded it.

 

I really liked that the movie budget gave them the chance to explore the military side of the Alliance a bit more, so it wasn't just made up of a dozen guys in Starship Troopers costumes. We saw the Alliance Navy in full force, and it was pretty impressive. I thought Chiwetel Eijofor was great in the role of the Operative, and was a thousand times scarier, more interesting and engaging than Jubal Early was. The cold, calculating, openly regretful pragmatism that he employed felt right for the true believer that he was. He could do horrendous things in the name of progress, and his mind broke when he realised he was doing those things for an entity that didn't deserve it.

 

The origin of the Reavers was interesting, if not something that quite worked when you stop and think about it. The way people spoke of them, it felt like they'd been around for a long time, but the movie places their origin just ten years ago. And the drug creating them was a bit of pseudo-scientific nonsense. But I don't care, because we finally got to see them, and they were horrifying. Travelling through Reaver Space was an unsettling experience, the brutality of their ships and their weaponry, the sheer weight of their presence, from the chase scene through to the climax, did the Reavers justice. And that scene of the Reaver armada emerging from the ion cloud (or whatever it was) and wiping the smile off the Operative's face was a great moment.

 

As for the characters that were slighted; I don't find it to be as big a problem as some people do. I never liked Book much, and thought it made sense that he settled down with some people who needed his moral strength. After all, he ended the series having decided to leave. And killing him? Eh, like I said, I never liked him much. The movie was Mal's journey, and so Book's death resonating with Mal and steeling his resolve was necessary. Mal had to feel like he was losing everything, to get to the place where he could do what needed to be done. And just introducing some character who was important to him, only to kill them, would have been cheap.

 

Wash? Yes, very sad, but I accepted Joss's reasoning that he wanted viewers to feel like they might be watching The Wild Bunch, and that everyone might die. Someone had to die to enable that fear, I feel, and Wash was the only one who really made sense. It's a harsh, unforgiving sort of sense, but it worked for me. I don't think there was anything gratuitous about it (tangentially, of all the Whedon deaths I've seen, the only one I do view as gratuitous and unnecessary was Anya, but I believe Emma Caulfield wanted her character to be killed off).

 

Ultimately, for me, those deaths come down to Joss's writing philosophy: "Never give people what they want. Always give them what they need."

 

This is genuinely one of my favourite movies, from start to finish. And what a great finish it is. This final few minutes is pure gold, for me:

 

 

The beautiful little moment between Mal and Zoe, where she tells him she'll "fly true". Jayne eating (his true love, alongside fighting), Mal and Inara almost talking properly, Simon and Kaylee getting it on, with River curiously investigating.

 

And then that last scene, with Mal and River in the cockpit, where she just seems like a normal (if genius-level) girl who wants to hear her 'dad' tell her a story. River's line about knowing what Mal's about to say, "but I'd like to hear you say it" is so good. Because on the one hand, as I said, she wants to hear him tell her a story. Then there's the fact that she has this connection with him, and knows how he feels, about so many things, and wants to hear him voice his philosophy. Then there's the third, meta-level, where she's acknowledging that this was his movie, and waiting for him to sum up what the heart of this little show called Firefly was.

 

Then a bit of the ship falls off. Because it's Firefly.

 

There's such a melancholy hopefulness to it, which fits everything that happened from the show's initial creation, through the cancellation and fan campaigns, to the movie being made at all.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Danny Franks

[John Potts]

JHLipton And everything about "The Operative" just seemed like a rip-off of Jubal Early, only not as awesome.

 

I felt the opposite. I never really liked Jubal Earley, because he never seemed real. The Operative here was (to me) believable as a Jack Bauer type - doing terrible things to keep the flock safe. Particularly when he admitted that he wouldn't get to live in Paradise because he was a monster.

Edited May 20, 2014 by John Potts

[jhlipton]

That's why they say YMMV!  :-)

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I love all things Firefly, and Firefly-adjunct, so I saw the movie in the theaters and then bought the DVD. As Danny Franks says, Serenity is Mal's story, and to a smaller extent River's since she's the reason he decides to stand and fight instead of running away. And while I can see how some people might be ambivalent about the character of The Operative, I always wonder if he wasn't like River at some point, and they cut up his brain too in order to make him into the perfect tool. I sincerely doubt that he was like that when he came out of the box, and while he might have been a lot more comfortable with his role than she was, It was his comfort with it that made him a monster.

 

About the Reavers - IMO it wasn't effects from the drugs that made their few surviving victims become Reavers themselves. It was the trauma of being set upon with such mindless ferocity. In one of the early scenes after the crew has pulled the bank heist and are trying to escape, River is the one who says "They want us alive when they eat us" when Zoe asks why the ship behind them didn't try to blast them out of the air. If something that prefers to eat its dinner while the food is still kicking happened upon me and whatever friends I might be with at the time, the cheese would probably slide off of my cracker too. :-)

 

True story: None of my housemates had seen the series, so when I brought the movie home I insisted that they watch it with me in the hopes that they would like it and want to see the series as well. So we're watching it and they're paying semi-attention, and the critical moment with Wash happens. One of them sits bolt upright on the couch and says, "Wash! No!" And it isn't just that Wash dies, but what it means for Zoe as well. He was her happiness in the present and her hope for the future. Why else would Mal have asked her if she was actually all the way there before he goes off to try and broadcast what they learned about the Reavers and the others brace themselves for the final stand?  Wash, with his silly dinosaurs and not-exactly-combat-ready mindset, seems out of place standing side by side with Jayne or Mal, but his less grim outlook on things buoyed Zoe up, IMO. How does she carry on without that bright spot once the movie ends?

 

Hey. Joss? *There's* something worth exploring.

[CletusMusashi]

Wash at least died in-character, and doing what he enjoyed second most. Even Book at least got to do one final Morgan Freeman impersonation. The one who I think the movie treated worst was Jayne. On the show, he was never an intellectual by any stretch of the imagination, but he did have a strong core of ruthless pragmatism that was impressive in its own way. In the film, he's suddenly just the redneck comedy relief guy, whose only roles are saying stupid things and getting kicked in the nuts by River. It was like they remembered things about his character that we laughed at, and made sure to include those, but completely forgot about the actual guy that those things were part of.

I could have been okay with either the show's explanation of Reavers, or the movie's. Just pick one already and stick with it, okay, Joss?

What eventually falls very flat, though, is the big theme of the movie that "you can't just make people better." Really? 'Cause, it simultaneously looked to me like "hey, wouldn't it be cool if we modfied this cute little girl's brain and turned her into an amazing super-ninja?"

In the happy ending, we fully expect River to be a better pilot than Wash, a better doctor than Simon, a better mechanic than Kaylie... for all the film's lip service to egalitarianism it really never seems to be that much into it's own message.

Edited July 4, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[Danny Franks]

What eventually falls very flat, though, is the big theme of the movie that "you can't just make people better." Really? 'Cause, it simultaneously looked to me like "hey, wouldn't it be cool if we modfied this cute little girl's brain and turned her into an amazing super-ninja?"

In the happy ending, we fully expect River to be a better pilot than Wash, a better doctor than Simon, a better mechanic than Kaylie... for all the film's lip service to egalitarianism it really never seems to be that much into it's own message.

 

"I am very smart. I went to the best Med-Acad in Osiris, top three percent of my class, finished my internship in eight months. "Gifted" is the term. So when I tell you that my little sister makes me look like an idiot child, I want you to understand my full meaning. River was more than gifted. She... she was a gift. Everything she did, music, math, theoretical physics - even-even dance - there was nothing that didn't come as naturally to her as breathing does to us."

 

The Alliance had nothing to do with River's intellect and her ability to master any skill. They just taught her how to fight, and I think she paid a hell of a price for that. They didn't make her better, and I think the entire series and movie reiterated that point. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

 

In the happy ending, we fully expect River to be a better pilot than Wash, a better doctor than Simon, a better mechanic than Kaylie... for all the film's lip service to egalitarianism it really never seems to be that much into it's own message.

I didn't pick up anything like that, @CletusMusashi. Yes, River was very smart, and by the end of the movie she's moderately more stable. But she isn't "cured", and she may never be cured. Her instability is the reason Simon gave up his medical career, defied their parents, and spent a fortune to get her out of that school, and The Operative corrects the doctor when he calls his determination madness. "Madness? Look at his face, doctor. It's *love*, in point of fact, something a great deal more dangerous." If she hadn't been so intelligent in the first place, the Alliance might not have selected her for their program, but the building blocks were already in place, and that's what caught their attention. Did they really make her better when whatever they did to her is what made her unstable?

[Kalliste]

I've only watched the movie once or twice because I really feel pretty meh about it. This thread is making me want to go back and rewatch everything though just to make sure I remember it correctly :)

 

I didn't particularly like the movie and it begins with the Book thing, not because he and his people died but because there was this expectation that we'd care. I felt like there wasn't enough backstory or time with these people for it to make a big impression on me.

[Danny Franks]

I've only watched the movie once or twice because I really feel pretty meh about it. This thread is making me want to go back and rewatch everything though just to make sure I remember it correctly :)

 

I didn't particularly like the movie and it begins with the Book thing, not because he and his people died but because there was this expectation that we'd care. I felt like there wasn't enough backstory or time with these people for it to make a big impression on me.

 

I didn't care about the people of Haven, other than Book (though I was never keen on him anyway). But I cared that the Serenity crew were hurt by the deaths, and I cared about the implication that they had nowhere left to run, and sanctuaries they'd relied on were being taken from them. It was something that was necessary for Mal to get to that place where he could string corpses on the front of his ship and make a run through Reaver space. 

[whack-a-mole]

2005? I feel so old.

 

There wasn't enough backstory to care about Book's people. That part was a miss.

 

Wash, man, Wash. Nothing they can ever do excuses that short of a Bobby in the shower moment, and that would be lame too.

[TeeVee329]

I recently rewatched and that moment when the blast door or whatever opens to reveal River standing among the pile of Reaver bodies like a badass, sword and axe in hands, still gives me chills.

[jhlipton]

Except that it doesn't fit with the River we saw in War Stories.  Are we to believe she changed that drastically in such a short period.  I don't buy it -- that scene was pure fan-service.

[Danny Franks]

Except that it doesn't fit with the River we saw in War Stories.  Are we to believe she changed that drastically in such a short period.  I don't buy it -- that scene was pure fan-service.

 

It doesn't match the River from the first three quarters of the movie, either. I think we're to believe, as the movie made clear to me, that the unburdening of River's mind, with them finally finding out the truth about Miranda, allowed her to access the skills that the Alliance had painstakingly installed into her brain. We'd already seen that she had them, in War Stories, but she wasn't able to use them consciously.

 

She is markedly different after they visit Miranda. She even says that she's different, compared to how she was previously. When she was burdened by a message that she shouldn't have to carry, because it isn't hers. This line also plays into what was tormenting her:

 

"People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."

 

She had seen the results of their meddling, but didn't understand that she had, and didn't remember it other than as a horrific experience. So was she all fine and dandy after Miranda? No, because she still suffered through years of trauma and experiments. But she was healing and, as Mal said, she'd pass through the storm "soon enough".

[jhlipton]

It doesn't match the River from the first three quarters of the movie, either. I think we're to believe, as the movie made clear to me, that the unburdening of River's mind, with them finally finding out the truth about Miranda, allowed her to access the skills that the Alliance had painstakingly installed into her brain. We'd already seen that she had them, in War Stories, but she wasn't able to use them consciously.

It's not that she didn't have te skills. It's that she doesn't want to see killing. Soi she can shoot 3 men as long as she doesn't have to lolok. But she can wipe out a room of people (and Reavers are people, just drugged-up people -- and don't get me started on the anti antidepressant message of Miranda) with no problem.

 

That was one of the least of my problems with the movie but I still think it was "Let's have Suimmer Glau kick ass" more than "This is a logical progression".

[Danny Franks]

It's not that she didn't have te skills. It's that she doesn't want to see killing. Soi she can shoot 3 men as long as she doesn't have to lolok. But she can wipe out a room of people (and Reavers are people, just drugged-up people -- and don't get me started on the anti antidepressant message of Miranda) with no problem.

 

That was one of the least of my problems with the movie but I still think it was "Let's have Suimmer Glau kick ass" more than "This is a logical progression".

 

"You've always taken care of me.... My turn." She wasn't killing because she wanted to, she was doing it to protect Simon, and the rest of the crew, just like they had protected her when she couldn't look after herself.

 

Again, the idea of family being something you can build runs through the whole series, and the movie.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

It's not that she didn't have te skills. It's that she doesn't want to see killing. Soi she can shoot 3 men as long as she doesn't have to lolok. But she can wipe out a room of people (and Reavers are people, just drugged-up people -- and don't get me started on the anti antidepressant message of Miranda) with no problem.

 

That was one of the least of my problems with the movie but I still think it was "Let's have Suimmer Glau kick ass" more than "This is a logical progression".

But if you notice, River only launches herself at the Reavers after Simon gets shot and collapses to the floor. Simon had been trying to help the also-wounded Kaylee when he was injured, which left Jayne and Zoe to maintain their position. Jayne even comments on it, to the effect of "Gorram girl couldn't use some of those skills right now?!" But after Simon, the brother who sacrificed everything to get her out of that school and then keep her away from the Alliance afterwards, is badly hurt, if you look you can see River's "other self" come to the surface. She even throws the medical bag Simon wanted through the hatch before it closes. Was it cheesy? Maybe, but I'll take Reaver Slayer!River over Buffy Summers destroying an entire town in the most ridiculous way possible every time.

[TeeVee329]

"You've always taken care of me.... My turn." She wasn't killing because she wanted to, she was doing it to protect Simon, and the rest of the crew, just like they had protected her when she couldn't look after herself.

 

That's the way I saw it too, that the visual of Simon getting shot and bleeding out in front of her like that pushed her progression forward.  It's comparable to news stories you hear about car accidents where parents get like a surge of strength to lift cars off their children.

[jhlipton]

I don't recall -- did she show any regret afterwards?  My misty memory says no, but I could be mistaken.

[TeeVee329]

Well the doors open and we see her standing there.  Then immediately, the rest of the Operative's team burst in.  The Operative then tells them to let the Serenity crew go.  And then I think the next scene is at the grave markers for Wash and Mr. Universe.

Edited September 8, 2014 by TeeVee329

[Danny Franks]

I don't recall -- did she show any regret afterwards?  My misty memory says no, but I could be mistaken.

 

I don't think she would show regret for saving the lives of her brother and her surrogate family. Why show empathy for Reavers? She knew, better than most it seems, just how awful the Reavers were, she said they were "made of rage" or whatever.

 

She didn't want to look at the men she was shooting, in War Stories, but she still shot them. To save Kaylee and help the others.  Because these people were becoming her family, even then.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I don't recall -- did she show any regret afterwards?  My misty memory says no, but I could be mistaken.

I don't think she did, but I wouldn't expect it from her. Or want her to, for that matter. To quote Mal himself, "If somebody's trying to kill you, you try to kill them first."

[RustbeltWriter]

The one who I think the movie treated worst was Jayne. On the show, he was never an intellectual by any stretch of the imagination, but he did have a strong core of ruthless pragmatism that was impressive in its own way. In the film, he's suddenly just the redneck comedy relief guy

 

 

See, I think one of the most dramatic scenes in the movie has Jayne calling out Mal on just how far the crew is supposed to go to get the truth out. Whether it's worth it for them to die or not and he's the only one willing to do it. Jayne's pragmatism is front and center. He can stay or go but it's his call as to what he'll do, no one elses.

 

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I didn't start this.

Jayne Cobb: No, that's right. Alliance starts the war, and then you volunteer. Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many...

[Mal turns to walk away]

Jayne Cobb: Hey, I'm talking at you! How many men in your platoon came out of there alive?

Zoë: You wanna leave this room.

Jayne Cobb: Damn right, I do.

[Raja]

The hard scene was Zoe soldiering on with the "Wash ain't coming" with Kaylee and Inara reacting. Then  battle madness sets in or suicide by reaver in battle before Jayne pulled her out. If anything the Operatives fleet seemed way to large for the reavers to still be legend in the central worlds. But then I guess I was hoping that they stayed out to cut down the number of reaver raids like the model of the US Cavalry being stationed on the western frontier. Not in battle every day or every year but being out there the stories wouldn't be reavers don't exist .

I recently rewatched and that moment when the blast door or whatever opens to reveal River standing among the pile of Reaver bodies like a badass, sword and axe in hands, still gives me chills.

 

I was thinking they could have done something else, it reminded me too much of Buffy. Punches to the jaw and kicks seemed to civil for the situation. I guess if they used blood splatter and body parts coming off instead of vampires turning to dust they couldn't get the PG-13

It wasn't just Wash that ruined the movie for me, although that was a big part of it. It was also the origin of the Reavers -- BigPharma made them into these monsters! Wouldn't the drugs wear off in time, and why would someone exposed to them turn into one. That whole section of plot just STUNK!

And everything about "The Operative" just seemed like a rip-off of Jubal Early, only not as awesome.

Just yeccccccccch!

Jubal Early had that line "that ain't no preacher" Everything about the Operative said that was half of Shepard Book's origin story

[Sandman]

On 2014-09-07 at 0:35 PM, jhlipton said:

... (and Reavers are people, just drugged-up people -- and don't get me started on the anti antidepressant message of Miranda) with no problem.

I never considered that there was an implicit criticism of antidepressants or other pharmaceuticals in this movie, quite honestly. The people of Miranda were not given medication for any therapeutic purpose: their essential nature was chemically altered without their knowledge for the convenience of the government. I think that's not really comparable to being prescribed antidepressant medication with informed consent.

[John Potts]

I agree that the Alliance wouldn't be able to hush up the Reavers entirely: but given the way they were depicted, presumably any atrocity would be "Unprovoked terrorist atrocities" by the Browncoats (they existed IRL in several parts of the old Confederacy, and "real" terrorist attacks probably existed in the 'Verse too, even after the end of the war).

[femmefan1946]

And Leaves on the Wind shows this in the argument between the newscasters. The 'conservatives' refuse to believe the Miranda story or in Reavers at all, saying they are no more than a scary ghost story.

And of course the New Rebellion, I'll have to re-read the comic to remember the exact name, but the Browncoats do rise again after Miranda.

It does seem likely that Jubal Early, The Operative and River were all results of Academy 'training'. Although The Shepherd's Tale gives Book more background, his training could have led to the founders of the Academy getting their ideas.

[jhlipton]

On September 9, 2014 at 1:35 AM, Danny Franks said:

 

I don't think she would show regret for saving the lives of her brother and her surrogate family. Why show empathy for Reavers? She knew, better than most it seems, just how awful the Reavers were, she said they were "made of rage" or whatever.

Because they were people, made of rage or not.  So, yeah, get the job done, but take a moment for who these might have been, just as who she might have been if she hadn't been rescued.

[Sandman]

On 2014-09-08 at 6:09 PM, jhlipton said:

I don't recall -- did she show any regret afterwards?  My misty memory says no, but I could be mistaken.

I'm not sure if River showed regret specifically for killing the Reavers -- but that might actually be part of the point of her story. River's plot in the movie is about the beginning of the restoration of her humanity. It's clear throughout the show that River is too damaged to have typical social responses to most things in her life. She's at the very least dealing with post-traumatic stress, and she is a being in terrible pain ("Bullet in the brainpan, squish.") but in any conventional sense, she's barely a person herself for most of the series. The movie shows that on some level she knows (or knew, at least when she was young) that the Alliance, that humanity, is capable of doing very wrong things ("We're meddlesome...") but I don't think a lack of elaboration on her remorse in the aftermath of the battle means that the movie fails to take the loss of the Reavers' humanity seriously. Part of the horror of Sarah Paulson's scene is that the recording shows that the Reavers did not evolve; they did not choose; they did not become. They were made. That scene is the ultimate evidence of the "meddlesome" nature of humanity, and River's prologue is seen for what it was -- a warning.

I seem to recall River's recognizing similarities between herself and the Reavers, but I'm not sure it would have been in character for her to have explicit dialogue underlining how narrowly she escaped becoming as monstrous as they. It might have been too on-the-nose.