Speculation Only

[supposebly]

To force a parallel, I do wonder if killing Metatron will end up making things worse like killing Lilith was. And what about Crowley?

 

Will Sam try and save Dean? I'm sure he will, he tried even when Dean basically said not to in season 3. The difference is that Dean didn't want to be saved to keep Sam safe. This time, it's because he thinks he deserves to die.

 

Sam didn't want to be saved because for once, he wanted to be cleansed and to prove himself to Dean. Not because he thinks he deserves to die.

[catrox14]

 

he difference is that Dean didn't want to be saved to keep Sam safe. This time, it's because he thinks he deserves to die.

 

I've speculated that Dean is on a suicide mission but I don't think Dean thinks he is (and maybe he's not). Dean even told Tessa that he's never been so low to kill himself (I would argue he did when he traded his life for Sam's in s2).

 

I can't remember any dialogue or subtext from Sam's side this season that indicates he's considered that Dean is suicidal. I think he thinks Dean is on the edge of going darkside and being a murderer. He's not asked particularly specific questions of Dean about how the Mark is affecting him and his observations are 'The Mark is changing you in some way" and that's about it. So I don't know at what point Sam would have pinged that Dean wants to die for this. 

 

If Dean dies in the course of killing Metatron and opening Heaven for all the waylayed souls isn't that essentially the same thing as Sam going through the trials and risking his own death to close Hell?  The only difference is that Sam also did it to purify himself not just to close the gates of Hell. Dean isn't going to gain anything at all on this run and I certainly don't think Dean wants to be King of Hell. So there really is nothing in it for Dean except to accomplish his mission.   I guess I'm not seeing a material difference here between Dean being on a suicide mission because he believes he's not worthy of being alive vs Sam wanting to purify himself and closing the Gates of Hell.

 

Even if Dean did want to die, once Sam is faced with Dean actually dying, he might very well opt to save him anyway. 

[supposebly]

 

If Dean dies in the course of killing Metatron and opening Heaven for all the waylayed souls isn't that essentially the same thing as Sam going through the trials and risking his own death to close Hell?

 

Sort of, assuming that's what's going to happen. I would be tempted to think that in case killing Metatron doesn't open Heaven, it would be a lot closer to what happened at the end of season 4. I think Sam made a final conscious decision to go darkside in order to kill Lilith. Maybe not to die but to lose himself in the process.

 

I don't think Dean is suicidal, I just think he's accepted that as part of his penance if that were to happen. He thinks he deserves to die, that doesn't mean he wants to. At least not in my view.

[Guest]

Speculate away.  No spoilers.

[catrox14]

s10 speculation I saw on Tumblr about demon!Dean

 

'What if he can't remember who he was before he became a demon"

 

That's just more than I can bear :(

Edited June 11, 2014 by catrox14

[Demented Daisy]

I can't imagine the show doing that.  Unless Demon Dean is Soulless Sam all over again.  Literally.  *sigh*

 

Have I mentioned I hate Demon Dean, even though we have no idea what that means yet?  He won't be 100% Dean because, otherwise, what was the point in making him a demon?  They have to change him in some way and I'm so not looking forward to that.

[AwesomO4000]

Unless Demon Dean is Soulless Sam all over again

 

But Soulless Sam had Sam's memories. It was the other way around - when real Sam returned - that the not remembering came into affect. Sam couldn't remember what Soulless Sam had done,and he didn't get those memories back until Castiel broke the wall.

 

So the parallel would be if real Dean - when he returns to being himself - didn't remember what Demon Dean did. I don't think they'll do that, however, because even with possession, the host usually remembers much of what the demon did, and Dean isn't even possessed per se. So for me not remembering wouldn't make much sense.

[catrox14]

But Dean died.  Really most sincerely dead.  Where did Dean's soul go?

[Demented Daisy]

But Soulless Sam had Sam's memories.

 

 

Did he?  Huh.  I don't remember that at all.

 

Oh no!  Did I become a demon at some point and have no memory of it?!?!  ;-)

 

ETA

 

But Dean died.  Really most sincerely dead.  Where did Dean's soul go?

 

 

Honestly?  No clue.  Stuck in the Veil with Kevin's, I suppose.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Demented Daisy

[amazinglybored]

But Dean died.  Really most sincerely dead.  Where did Dean's soul go?

 

This might just be the most interesting question to me that they'll probably never answer. I think the mark kept it there and then did its thing.

 

 

 

Did he?  Huh.  I don't remember that at all.

 

He had Sam's memories. I wish I could forget Soulless Sam.

[7kstar]

...it would be a lot closer to what happened at the end of season 4. I think Sam made a final conscious decision to go darkside in order to kill Lilith. Maybe not to die but to lose himself in the process.

 

I don't think Dean is suicidal, I just think he's accepted that as part of his penance if that were to happen. He thinks he deserves to die, that doesn't mean he wants to. At least not in my view.

Dean isn't suicidal, he has tunnel vision and is on a mission.  Thus he can't see the consequences just the outcome of kill Metatron.  He believes he will die anyway if you recall the speech back in Season 8, he felt he was just a grunt and as such his only goal in life was to take out as many bad guys as possible before his death.  For him, I believe it is a trade my life for taking out the bad guys.  If I live then I keep fighting.  Nothing good ever happened when he tried to go for normal so he dropped that dream a long time ago. 

 

Which is why I think that Sam doesn't get his big brother.  He had happy normal with Jessica where Dean's was marred with my brother's in hell.  Sam knew his brother and father were hunting but he wasn't really worried about them, so he could enjoy his normal life.  The only time Dean got that was before his mother died.

 

But Dean died.  Really most sincerely dead.  Where did Dean's soul go?

 

 

This might just be the most interesting question to me that they'll probably never answer. I think the mark kept it there and then did its thing.

 

I think the soul is in hell or trapped by the Mark.  If you go with Christianity, that is where his soul would be.  I doubt we'll get an answer to that  unless his soul meets Kevin.  Now that might be interesting, Demon Dean being controlled by Crowley and Dean's soul trying to reach Sam with an assist from Kevin.  It would allow them to bring back Kevin if they wished.

 

I do think Carver's plan is tied into Season 7's  storyline for Dean.  Saw some music video's that complied season 7 - 9 and it did make a natural progression for Dean.  I think if I wasn't so sick of the brother's fighting I might be impressed.  Not sure if anyone knows what to do with Sam.  Thus why we get so unsatisfied with his storyline.  JMV

 

[mertensia]

s10 speculation I saw on Tumblr about demon!Dean

 

'What if he can't remember who he was before he became a demon"

 

That's just more than I can bear :(

 

Since Cain could and did remember I doubt Dean will be AmnesiaMan.  

 

I wonder if he's going to want Sam to know he's a demon, let alone alive. Or if Crowley will give him the chance. 

 

Of course I'm also wondering what music they're going to choose for the opening "previously last season" bit.

[catrox14]

So, I was watching Salvation and it occurred to me....what if the Colt is the only thing that could kill demon!Dean?  Sam has to find the Colt and kill Dean with it and then shoots him himself.  How much darker could the show end?

[7kstar]

Not sure if the colt would work?  My question, isn't Dean the only one with the mark besides Cain.   We never saw the mark on anyone else and it would make sense that the knights didn't all have the mark just Cain. 

[Demented Daisy]

Lucifer said that he was one of the five things that the Colt couldn't kill.  I expect the carrier of the Mark of Cain is one of them.  (Though I doubt that anyone made an actual list when the episode was written.)

[catrox14]

Oh man, I totally forgot about this line whilst watching Salvation: 

 

Meg: He begged for his life with tears in his eyes. He begged to see his sons one last time. That’s when I slit his throat.

Sam starts reading again and Dean leans down to her.

Sam: Ergo...

Dean: For your sake, I hope you’re lying. Cause if it’s true, I swear to God, I will march into hell myself and I will slaughter each and every one of you evil sons of bitches, so help me God!

 

 

How great would it be if turns out that Dean somehow knew more about the First Blade than he let on, and was using Crowley to get to it himself to fulfill the above line?  I mean fat fucking chance the writers will make that connection, but man if they could make it that Dean's ultimate goal was to get back into Hell to slaughter them as a Knight of Hell, I would forgive it all.  Maybe he just didn't figure he was going to be killed by Metatron and end up a demon.

 

Re your question on the Colt. Maybe there are some more bullets hidden in the LoL they can use?

Lucifer said that he was one of the five things that the Colt couldn't kill.  I expect the carrier of the Mark of Cain is one of them.  (Though I doubt that anyone made an actual list when the episode was written.)

 

Oh that's an interesting point.  If they don't get back to Lucifer and how all this got started with the MoC aside from what Cain said...well that will just be super disappointing. A scene with Mark Pellegrino and Timothy Omundson and the entire Mark thing being created.  Please and thank you.

[amazinglybored]

Lucifer said that he was one of the five things that the Colt couldn't kill.  I expect the carrier of the Mark of Cain is one of them.  (Though I doubt that anyone made an actual list when the episode was written.)

 

Yeah. So, list time, imo. Lucifer, Death, God, Michael, x? Or would it be more generic, like: Archangels, Horsemen, God, x, x? I always thought it was the first one. The big ones left would be Leviathans, Eve and Cain/MoC.

[catrox14]

Oh gods. I just had a terrifying thought.  What if they bring back Lisa and Ben to try and save Dean to parallel Cain with Collette.  I will be so fucking pissed off if they do that.  Cas wiped her memory but I suspect they could undo that like every other stupid thing they've undone.

 

Talk me out of this one, friends.

[Mcolleague]

Highly HIGHLY unlikely IMO, they would get crucified by the fans. The Lisa and Ben storyline was unpopular with the fans IIRC? And the mind wiping was so ridiculous and full of plotholes I doubt they would revisit it, especially for Lisa to be Dean's love interest again. If they are going for the direct parallel, I think it's more likely they would "parallel" either Sam or Cas with Collette. I was hoping we had avoided this though, since it didn't happen in Season 9? As if there hasn't been enough guilt piled on Dean. Sincerely hope we are past that, since Abaddon is gone. 

[7kstar]

 What if they bring back Lisa and Ben to try and save Dean to parallel Cain with Collette. 

 

Talk me out of this one, friends.

I don't think it would even enter their minds.  The mind wipe and Sam never bring up Lisa again was directed to us the audience through Sam.  I never hated Lisa and Ben so I wouldn't mind them coming back but I know that too many fans have the opposite reaction.

 

I think Sam is the likely candidate but am willing to wait to see what they really do.  It might be a way to actually repair some of the damage that they did to Sam over the years if.  I do say if.

If he helps Dean by telling him he understands the torment and that Dean doesn't have to deal with it alone.  I've been there and let me help you charter these muddy waters without giving into guilt.  But I really doubt they will do that, since they keep damaging Sam's character.

[catrox14]

 

I don't think it would even enter their minds.  The mind wipe and Sam never bring up Lisa again was directed to us the audience through Sam.

 

Sam did bring up Lisa in the Purge. He said "I'm not the only one that's had bendy weekends" or something to that effect.  He didn't mention her by name...but that was an obvious reference (and to this day I don't know why Dean let that pass)

[AwesomO4000]

I was thinking of starting a Speculation thread for the series finale.  Obviously, we haven't gotten any info on when that might be, but I thought it could be fun for us to talk about how we might like to see the show end.  Also, any clues that we might notice and like to discuss, but not necessarily spoilers.  That would stay in the regular Spoilers and Spec thread.

 

Anyone interested?

 

I had an idea on this, so decided I wanted to share it. I might come up with something else later, but for now, this one wouldn't leave my head. The "sappy" ending first. So here it is and it could also be flipped around...

 

So how I'd like the show to end... big epic battle - it could be to restore heaven, or that could already be done some other way. They succeed, but Dean is killed. He ends up in heaven where Castiel and Ash sometimes visit him. Sam grieves, but also is resolved and has a plan. After a couple of years of Sam continuing the job periodically, he is also killed. Ash lets Dean know that Sam has died so Dean gets into Baby to travel the road. At first he doesn't find Sam, but finally Dean goes by the field from "Dark Side of the Moon" and sees fireworks in the air. Maybe "Knocking on Heaven's Door" plays. Dean decides to stop and investigate and as he looks into the field, instead of seeing teenage Sam dancing in the field, he sees Sam more like the way he remembered him when Dean died, maybe a couple of years older and he sees himself as a teen from the memory. As he walks up and Sam sees him, the memory Dean fades and Sam comes over saying "I knew you'd show up eventually." They hug, then watch the fireworks a bit. They talk briefly about what are they going to do now that they are stuck in Memorex heaven. Sam says "we could go to Amsterdam?" * Dean is confused. "Sam we never went to Amsterdam. Remember? You were all prissy about the coffee shops with no coffee." Sam smiles. "I know Dean, but I went." Sam mentions some other places, and then "and I went to Tijuana too." Dean, teasingly: "Donkey show?" Sam: "Definitely not." Dean amusedly: "Ehn, hardly seems worth it, then." ** Sam snorts, smiles and shakes his head. Dean notices the fireworks crescendo. "We should probably get out of here before the field catches fire." Sam: "Good idea." They get into the Impala, getting themselves settled in and then share a look. After a moment - Sam: "So where do you want to go, Dean?" Dean: "We got all the time in the world. So, let's just see where the road takes us for a while." They go speeding down the road... fade to black.

 

I thought about doing it the other way, but I don't know if Dean could hold it together as well if Sam died first right now - we'll see how he is as the show comes nearer to the end. I'd still keep the meeting place the same, since it's the memory Sam knows about that they're both in, so Sam would know to meet Dean there, so even if Sam died first, he'd still meet Dean in the field.

 

* If canon hadn't been messed up, it would've been the Grand Canyon as the first mention.

 

** I can imagine Jensen pulling it off perfectly.

Edited November 19, 2014 by AwesomO4000

[Demented Daisy]

My husband thinks Dean's current storyline is a set up for the end.  He thinks they're giving Dean the worst he's ever faced so that when they kill him at the end of the season (assuming this is the last, which he thinks it is), the audience will be relieved that Dean has finally found peace.

 

He's not sure about Sam.  I'm still processing.

[SueB]

I think Dean is setting himself up to die. Big time. It feels like he's saying goodbye, slowly.

[catrox14]

I think Dean is setting himself up to die. Big time. It feels like he's saying goodbye, slowly.

I've been saying that since last season. I swear if all Dean is going to be is a murderer, I'd rather he just be done with it. But I doubt he can even kill himself with without the first blade. And Crowley has that.

My husband thinks Dean's current storyline is a set up for the end.  He thinks they're giving Dean the worst he's ever faced so that when they kill him at the end of the season (assuming this is the last, which he thinks it is), the audience will be relieved that Dean has finally found peace.

 

He's not sure about Sam.  I'm still processing.

I m afraid the audience will hate Dean so much by that time that they will cheer his demise. :(.

[Demented Daisy]

No spoilers, unless you count a book series that ended 7 years ago.  ;-)

 

Okay, in Order of the Phoenix, Harry was possessed by Voldemort.  His love for Sirius (and the rest of his family and friends) forced Voldemort out.  In Deathly Hallows, Harry's love for Dobby (sob!) kept Voldemort out of Harry's brain.  Love protected Harry from the evil of the horcrux attached to his soul.

 

Cain finally tempered the Mark because of his love for Collette, yes?  

 

I don't think that love will break the Mark's hold on Dean, but what if someone he loves dies?  Considering how few characters are left, that means Sam, Castiel, or Charlie.  (I think he likes Jodi, but doesn't have the same connection to her that he does the others.)

 

My money is on Cas.  Maybe he sacrifices himself in an attempt to carry out Dean's death wish.  Hmmm.  Requires more thought....

[SueB]

I don't think someone's death will do the trick. Dean has experienced so much death that losing Cas (for the nth time) would possibly drive him more dark IMO. It's true that there might be an angle where Cas choosing to die rather than steal grace might set the example. But I'm thinking Dean already has lots of heroic death examples.

If I look at the show's dual theses of both family and free will, I feel like somehow Dean feeling he has a CHOICE will be important. Right now he's feeling the die is cast. So something that is a 'yay,humanity' plus 'yay, free will' plus 'yay, family' would be important. Because if you lok at the qualities that Dean has represented and fought for, these are them.

Now throw in a little dollop of God (or Chuck, depending on your POV). I don't think we'll SEE God, but these three things are always big on his list. So, a solution to defeat the power of Lucifer, as embedded in the Mark, would probably go along these lines.

I don't have a particular solution in my head yet. Probably. Some McGuffin or that Spear of Destiny still floating around the bunker may be involved.

[Demented Daisy]

I don't think someone's death will do the trick. Dean has experienced so much death that losing Cas (for the nth time) would possibly drive him more dark IMO. It's true that there might be an angle where Cas choosing to die rather than steal grace might set the example. But I'm thinking Dean already has lots of heroic death examples.

 

I don't know.  Each death has changed Dean in some way.  Dean has sacrificed himself, but he's never let anyone else sacrifice themselves for him.  Not that he could prevent, anyway.  I don't think that Dean was angry with John for sacrificing himself, it was the manner in which he did it.  

 

But if Cas were to sacrifice himself to save Dean....  I don't know.  It could be the epiphany that Dean needs.

[catrox14]

I don't see how Dean willingly saying "Okay, loved one, die for me and I'll accept that as a sign of your love for me" is a solution to Dean's problem. That seems pretty dang selfish and I don't see that as something Dean would ever find acceptable. 

 

My crack theory is that if anyone could save Dean, it's Mary or John. Or his own child.

 

There are any number of women who could show up as Baby Mama for Dean.

 

Jaime, Cassie, Donna (in my happy place, they hooked up at the spa or after this last case in the throes of post-vampire killing rush) . No retconning of Ben being his son would be acceptable.

[Demented Daisy]

I don't see how Dean willingly saying "Okay, loved one, die for me and I'll accept that as a sign of your love for me" is a solution to Dean's problem. That seems pretty dang selfish and I don't see that as something Dean would ever find acceptable. 

 

*sigh*  That is nowhere near what I meant.  Honestly, I don't even know how you came up with that.  I never suggested that Dean would want anyone to sacrifice themselves to prove their love for him.  

 

The epiphany I suggested is that maybe, if someone were to sacrifice himself for Dean, he might realize that he's not worthless.  That he has been fighting the good fight; that the things he's done have not been selfish; that the world needs him.

 

I never meant that Dean would just sit there and say, "Oh yeah, go ahead.  My life is worth more than yours."  Dean would fight it with everything he has, but he can't control someone else's free will.

 

Just like how he couldn't save Castiel from Purgatory.  It was a choice that Cas made.  Dean hated it, but there was nothing he could do about it.  That didn't make Dean a terrible person then and I don't see how failing to stop Cas again would somehow make him a terrible person in the future.

 

I'm not even saying that it would be a good storyline, just one possible direction for the show to go in.

[DittyDotDot]

It's an interesting question. Hmm, I think--considering the show's been about brotherly love--it would almost have to be Sam making a huge sacrifice for Dean, but the show's not gonna kill off Sam at this point. Hmmm. I guess if this is the last season, they could go this way though. Hmmm...my head still hurts from trying to figure out if monsters have souls or not. Sigh.

[rue721]

The epiphany I suggested is that maybe, if someone were to sacrifice himself for Dean, he might realize that he's not worthless.  That he has been fighting the good fight; that the things he's done have not been selfish; that the world needs him.

 

I never meant that Dean would just sit there and say, "Oh yeah, go ahead.  My life is worth more than yours."  Dean would fight it with everything he has, but he can't control someone else's free will.

 

Just like how he couldn't save Castiel from Purgatory.  It was a choice that Cas made.  Dean hated it, but there was nothing he could do about it.  That didn't make Dean a terrible person then and I don't see how failing to stop Cas again would somehow make him a terrible person in the future.

 

I think that, whatever the circumstances, if someone were to sacrifice himself for Dean or, tbh, even if a loved one were just to die in a way that was totally unrelated to Dean, Dean would see that as a failure on his part and beat himself up over it. Even when Castiel decided to stay in Purgatory, Dean misremembered what happened because he needed to convince himself that it was his fault.

 

Also, I think losing people hits him extremely hard, and he's not entirely in his right mind when that's happening. Aside from grief, I think what freaks him out about it is that he feels powerless (which imo is why he tries to convince himself it's his fault, rather than accepting that it's something out of his control -- so he won't feel so powerless). Since his big problem right now is feeling like he's got this terrible fate and is just figuring out how to accept it, imo, what would help is to make him feel like he's *not* powerless and does still have some say in his life. I'm not sure what would have to happen for him to feel that way, though?

 

If I look at the show's dual theses of both family and free will, I feel like somehow Dean feeling he has a CHOICE will be important. Right now he's feeling the die is cast. So something that is a 'yay,humanity' plus 'yay, free will' plus 'yay, family' would be important. Because if you lok at the qualities that Dean has represented and fought for, these are them.

 

Yes, IA, I think choice is important. But I'm not sure how that could come together (plot-wise)? Also, this show doesn't like happy endings so much. S8 ended on Sam in danger, S9 ended on Dean in danger, so I think S10 is likely to end on Sam in danger again. Not sure if/how that could come into things, though, either.

[DittyDotDot]

I've been trying to think of something fun to pass the time till we get the show back. Got to thinking now that we know the show's going on for another season, what would you guys like to see in S11? Generally I'm happy to go along as long as it's something interesting to watch and not very good at this, but since I asked the question, I should probably throw something in the mix too...Mostly, I'd like Sam and Dean to be fighting the good fight together rather than fighting each other and I also prefer the show when it's more grounded and not full of the grand scale angel and demon wars. I guess I don't have any major arcs I'd like to see, but maybe a couple individual episode ideas they've yet to cover, such as:

• I mentioned this in the Heart thread, but I think an episode where they have to hang around in one town for a lengthy period of time could be interesting.
• I've always thought a musical monster episode could be interesting. Now to be clear, I've never pinned for a full-on musical episode where Sam and Dean break out in song, but think a musical monster (perhaps a banshee?) could be fun. Maybe the banshee sings the soon-to-be-dead's playlist or something. I don't know how to make it work, just think it could be interesting.
• I wouldn't mind an episode where Baby gets brought to life and gets to have her say for once--I bet she's got a few things to say about those boys making her listen to all their bitching and moaning all these years. Again, have no clue how to make it work or what sort of monster could make an intimate object come to life, but I've always believed Baby has a soul, so...
• I'm not a lover of the Men Of Letters, but since they insist on keeping it around, I'd love to see them use it well. They should be finding weird stuff allover that place. It might be fun to find an old Man Of Letters is haunting the place and who has kept the place so neat and tidy all those years it sat empty. Maybe not a proper ghost, but someone trapped out of phase or something like that.

 

That's all I got right now...anyone else got some ideas?

[oliverwendell]

I'm too distressed about the possibility that Dean will kill Cas to think about anything else happening.  Writers:  don't make Dean kill Cas! 

[DittyDotDot]

Do you really think they'd actually go there at this point considering how Dean had actual reasons to want to kill Cass at one time and never did it? It seems a rather hallow attempt by the writers to get some fans stirred up, to me...maybe that's just my cynical Suzy side coming out, though.

[catrox14]

I don't think Dean will kill Cas intentionally. I suspect it could be that Dean tries to kill Sam but Cas intervenes and Dean accidentally kills him. 

[Demented Daisy]

I've been saying that I thought Cas might die this season.  I can't give a reason, just a feeling I've been getting.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Cas sacrificed himself in some way.

[DittyDotDot]

See, I don't think they're gonna go there with Sam either. I think it was all bait to get the fans worked up. I'm open to the possibility I'm completely wrong, but the idea of it seems so far out there right now. Back in S4 I could've seen Dean possibly killing Sam. And, in S6 if they hadn't found a way to get Sam's soul back, sure. But now? I don't know. Maybe they've pulled this card too many times for me to even feel worried anymore?

[catrox14]

See, I don't think they're gonna go there with Sam either. I think it was all bait to get the fans worked up. I'm open to the possibility I'm completely wrong, but the idea of it seems so far out there right now. Back in S4 I could've seen Dean possibly killing Sam. And, in S6 if they hadn't found a way to get Sam's soul back, sure. But now? I don't know. Maybe they've pulled this card too many times for me to even feel worried anymore?

 

I can understand that.  The difference for me is that now Dean is all jacked up from the MoC.  And now that Cain is dead, (theoretcially) maybe Dean has to bear the full force of the Mark since it's not splitting time with Cain now. I think from here on in Dean is going to be even further off the rails. 

 

I think it might be interesting if demon!Dean is the only part of Dean that can control the Mark.  Like maybe Demon!Dean would be the lesser of the evils if human!Dean can't control it anymore.  demon!Dean just doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything and he might just decide that he doesn't care what happens to Sam which mean he might not care about killing him.  I dunno

[rue721]

I've been saying that I thought Cas might die this season.  I can't give a reason, just a feeling I've been getting.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Cas sacrificed himself in some way.

 

IA about Cas. It was how Hannah went out that made me feel that way, that they were setting the stage for Cas to be done. And also that he sorta tied up Jimmy's loose ends with Claire.

 

I can see some kind of sacrifice where Castiel stands in as Dean's "brother."

[Demented Daisy]

If humans could transubstantiate, then Sam could become an angel, making it (potentially) possible to keep MoC Dean under control.  But I can't imagine the show going there.

 

Personally, I want them both 100% human again, dealing with problems facing humanity.  I'd love it if the show eased up on the Biblical stories and went back to hunting monsters and witches and Pagan gods and the like.  Since I've already mentioned a witches' revolt, how about:

 

• In a play on Hammer of the Gods, what if a whole bunch of gods joined together to reclaim their power?  Of course, that would mean that Sam and Dean (and any allies left) would probably have to travel to places other than the US, which would never happen, but anyway....  
• The Alpha vampire is still alive, yes?  What if he and his children started turning people who are possessed by demons, giving them the power to force the demons out?  Sam and Dean cure as many as possible, killing the rest, but humanity is threatened.  They've let the Alpha live too long -- time to take him out.  But how?
• Crowley and Rowena are engaged in a bitter battle for power.  People en masse are being turned into witches or demons.  Which is worse?  Who dies first?  The King of Hell or his mother?  (Obvious answer, but anyway....)
• Cole's dad was a monster that Dean had never heard of.  Still hasn't, years later.  What if Cole isn't the only one looking for revenge?  What if a group of those monsters track Cole down, turn him, and create a subculture of monsters that Sam and Dean can't possibly fight without some help?  
• Maybe the Men of Letters weren't exterminated -- the remaining members went into hiding.  Sam and Dean find some evidence of their existence and go looking for them. 

 

I'd be happy if TPTB started expanding the Supernatural universe.  It needs some fresh blood, so to speak.  ;-)

 

ETA  In other words, I want Sam and Dean to start dealing with some external problems again.  This constant stream of internal conflict is getting tiresome.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[AwesomO4000]

• I wouldn't mind an episode where Baby gets brought to life and gets to have her say for once--...

 

Fanifc flashbacks, fanfic flashbacks - oh, and you likely don't want to know.

 

That's all I got right now...anyone else got some ideas?

 

• Crowley needs to die... or maybe Sam finally gets so pissed at Crowley he thinks of something worse. Maybe somehow he figures how to get a Rowena spell to backfire that traps the two of them together for eternity... maybe Crowley would then be begging to be dead. ; )
• There's got to be some angel who knows something about the mark of Cain, but better an angel you - sort of - know. Cas has enough juice left to send Sam and Dean back in time / place to stop Gadreel from using himself to blow up heaven's jail (I know just go with it, heh) and instead they do it themselves as they blip out of there with Gadreel. (Maybe Gadreel didn't get caught right away and/or he heard a lot of things from the other angels while he was in lockdown.)
• I think this was brought up before, so credit to whoever did - Conversely, Sam and Dean go to the source for information on the mark, drawing on Sam's previous connection with Lucifer. This has potential for much angst and potential trauma for Sam, but I could see him doing this in a desperate attempt to save Dean. Or potentially Sam does this on his own, too, which would be a source of conflict, but is possible, in my opinion if Dean goes downhill. This would involve a repeat trip through the purgatory door, and Sam trying to find the "cage." Lucifer could somehow be trapped but still able to see and be seen and communicate with Sam - psychological games would ensue. For me it would be awesome if Sam and Castiel could team up to do this together to help save Dean. Whatever they would find out could ultimately have to be accomplished by Dean, thereby everyone would contribute to Dean's being saved. I could imagine Sam might have to pay a price... I myself am still not averse to Sam becoming some sort of not-completely-evil-but-rather-no-nonsesne King of Hell as his "destiny" supposedly was, but where he uses it to his advantage and turns it on its head, so if that was the price, I could live with that. *
• I'd like to revisit the ghost / trapped souls dropped storyline. For example, what happened with Kevin? At least wrap it up rather than it sort of dangling.

 

* (I may be being influenced by the amusing "Heaven, Hell, and a Mechanic" fanfic series where Sam, the new king of hell, Castiel the new king of heaven, and Dean the hunter/slash mechanic, regularly get together for lunch to talk about their complicated lives. It's often told from the perspective of how they look to the outside world. Ben and Lisa are in it peripherally and Adam is in it too - he helps Sam run hell.)

[ItsABear]

I've never read any fanfic, so I don't know if these ideas have already been tossed around.

 

I'd like God to show up eventually.  Maybe if the series were ever to actually end.  Not to fix everything, but instead to cause some issue.  Maybe he (or more hopefully SHE) could fix Heaven, because this has gone on too long with the angels not having wings, and the souls in the veil.

 

I agree with everyone that it would be nice if instead of having all the conflict be internal between Sam & Dean, to have to fight something external.  And new monsters.  Perhaps mermaids, chimeras that can look human except when they are about to feed, the Valkyrie or Harpies.  It would be cool if they had to fight Medusa, because they couldn't look at her while fighting.  I'm not the most creative person out there, but these are just some thoughts I've had how to improve the show.  They could even make the Valkyrie the big bad, have them go rouge or something.  But I really want Sam and Dean working together fighting something that doesn't involve internal conflict.  Find a miracle cure for the MoC and get out on the road again fighting monsters, with the MoL bunker as a "home base" they use occasionally.  

Edited February 26, 2015 by ItsABear

[Demented Daisy]

I've said several times that God should be the final season's Big Bad.  I mean, who else is left?  ;-)

 

I could imagine Sam and Dean wanting God to pay for a few things.

[SueB]

I've said several times that God should be the final season's Big Bad.  I mean, who else is left?  ;-)

 

I could imagine Sam and Dean wanting God to pay for a few things.

I have a hard time seeing God as the Big Bad because we've seen God (literally) in the form of Chuck in Swan Song and Fan Fiction.  And he LOVES Sam, Dean and Cas.  Like ADORES them.  He's totally Team Free Will IMO.  So....if God was to be the Big Bad, I'd think it was some sort of thing where he was losing his mind or something. 

 

I have many complex novel-length thoughts about where "God" could go in Supernatural but being the Big Bad isn't one of them.  If I ever get a chance to write this down coherently, I'll post it here or provide a link.

[catrox14]

Unless one does not believe that Chuck is God and but was actually Kripke's avatar or a prophet.   Then we could get a whole new vengeful God.  Or even if it was Chuck if SPN uses the lore of God placing a hit on whoever kills Cain, then God would be out to kill Dean...so he's the big Bad but not because he hates the Boys but because that is what God promised to do.

Edited February 27, 2015 by catrox14

[Demented Daisy]

I have a hard time seeing God as the Big Bad because we've seen God (literally) in the form of Chuck in Swan Song and Fan Fiction.  And he LOVES Sam, Dean and Cas.  Like ADORES them.  He's totally Team Free Will IMO.  So....if God was to be the Big Bad, I'd think it was some sort of thing where he was losing his mind or something. 

 

I have many complex novel-length thoughts about where "God" could go in Supernatural but being the Big Bad isn't one of them.  If I ever get a chance to write this down coherently, I'll post it here or provide a link.

 

Sorry, in my brevity I didn't express myself well.  I meant that, sooner or later, Sam and Dean would want to hunt God, not that God would be a force for evil.  I agree that He loves Sam and Dean -- which is why He would eventually allow them to catch Him.  Cue dramatic music for the reveal!  ;-)

 

I'm in the "Chuck is God" camp and would love a handful of episodes in which Sam and Dean find Him and demand some answers.  Imagine the looks on their faces!  I would love love love it!

[SueB]

Ah. That makes it much more clear. I will say that, unless he's somehow diminished, I think God is too big a fish, even for Sam & Dean. So your theory of him letting them catch up works for me.

[catrox14]

God won't be too big a fish IF the boys ally with Castiel and Crowley, and use Michael and Lucifer's power to fight God.  

[trxr4kids]

It's been speculated since it seems to be the season of the witch, that a spell might be used to fix the MoC. I'm wondering/speculating about Henry's blood spell and the untapped resources within the LoL.  Sam or Dean could use the blood leads to blood spell and go back and stop Dean from taking the mark I think, unless the spell only goes forward in time. Other than Dean researching in isolation are they even trying to use the huge cavern of knowledge at their disposal that Abbadon killed the MoL to get too, seems that might be worth looking into. Maybe this isn't speculation so much as unanswered questions and wasted potential, IDK.

 

If Sam used the blood spell and was able to direct it to the past, would it lead to Winchesters, Campbells, Azazel or the psychic kids? If Dean used it possessing the mark would it lead back to Cain or Lucifer?

 

ETA: Metatron has been hijacking the word or God for awhile, what if while they're finally addressing the issues with heaven they come across a legitimate prophecy that states something like if The Righteous Man takes The Mark he will burn it out of existence with the power of pie or love of pie.

Edited March 5, 2015 by trxr4kids