S02.E07 Betsy 2018.07.17

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, Moxie Cat said:

Oh, absolutely - and I think, didn't Pinstripe have a line about how you're assuming YOU were the best qualified, and that the person who got the job wasn't, and that may not be the case at all. I guess I didn't blame Jane for being hurt and disappointed after getting that phone call - she reacted the way a lot of us would (especially after some drinks!) and being upset in that moment in a very human way didn't mean she didn't support diversity so I thought that was overblown. But you're right - her comeback was then quite unproductive. Thanks for sharing your views. 

Thanks for sharing yours as well... And I agree she was down about losing out on the job... And had a few drinks in her.. Even her initial statement about just being bummed.. But the company deciding to go look for an applicant of color wasn't so bad seemingly innocuous until kat asked the follow-up... " That's not so bad is it"... Like the issue probably woulda ended right there haf kat not asked that... But like I said before.. I've been in her shoes.. And when I watched the show I saw her first feel bad for Jane... Then she really absorbed what it was Jane was saying ( possibly subconsciously)  so she asked what she did.. And it just went down from there..  Anyway thanks for the discourse ..its so fun to discuss things with differing positions and not have it devolve into madness

[tennisgurl]

Next week, Sutton asks Jane if she can grab a carton of milk for their apartment if she’s gonna be at the store anyway. Jane then slams the phone down in horror, revealing later that she was drinking a glass of milk before she found out that her mom was sick, and hasn’t looked at a dairy product ever since. Jane then writes an award winning article about her loctose based ordeal. 

[KaveDweller]

17 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Jane is 26 (7 years old likely in spring 1999). The pages they were looking at in Sutton's book clearly said Class of 2007. So Sutton is 29 (18 likely in spring 2007). Only mentioning because I am the kind of person who is stupidly preoccupied with character details like this.

Last season Sutton told Richard how she couldn't afford failure because she is turning 26 this year. So Sutton is 25/26 depending on if she has supposed to have had a birthday since then.

Sutton could have a year book from her freshman year that had pages referencing Class of 2007 where it was showing seniors.  I have several yearbooks from when I was in high school. It doesn't mean she was a senior in 2007, especially when that contradicts things they have specifically said in conversation.  I always take characters lines over props since they come from the writers directly.

[Moxie Cat]

5 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Like the issue probably woulda ended right there haf kat not asked that

I've been thinking, if Pinstripe would have just told Jane she probably wasn't getting the job, and left it at that without mentioning the reason, it would have ended as well! So it's basically all Pinstripe's fault. :-)

[UNOSEZ]

2 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

I've been thinking, if Pinstripe would have just told Jane she probably wasn't getting the job, and left it at that without mentioning the reason, it would have ended as well! So it's basically all Pinstripe's fault. :-)

True... Guess the show just wanted to have that issue addressed... I'm glad for it... I'm glad that the show doesn't always paint it's obviously liberal protagonists as perfect.. Cuz we aren't... We don't always live up to our lofty ideals.. And that's ok

[Moxie Cat]

46 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Last season Sutton told Richard how she couldn't afford failure because she is turning 26 this year. So Sutton is 25/26 depending on if she has supposed to have had a birthday since then.

Thanks, I didn't remember that! Yeah, that's way more specific. Plus, I would buy Sutton more as mid-20s than approaching 30. It was also mentioned that Richard is 15 years older, and I couldn't see him as 45. Sam Page is 41, by the way.

In case anyone's wondering, Katie Stevens is 26, Aisha Dee is 24, and Meghann Fahy is likely 28 (IMDB doesn't give a birthdate, but she graduated from HS in 2008). Aisha Dee is Australian - I never would have guessed! Her accent is really good.

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

didn't Pinstripe have a line about how you're assuming YOU were the best qualified, and that the person who got the job wasn't, and that may not be the case at all.

Exactly. And this quote inadvertently brings up another problem the show has had lately: It takes Pinstripe mansplaining for Jane to take something seriously. He was also the one who told Jane she should dig a little deeper into why Sutton loved shooting. Ugh. (Not to Pinstripe per se, but how he's Jane's professional conscience or mentor or whatever he is. Why doesn't Jane have a female sounding board not named Sutton, Kat, or Jacqueline?)

[Black Knight]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:07 PM, retrograde said:

Also, different desks don't make you think differently. Jacqueline is being mean. 

Surroundings do matter. There have been studies done on, for instance, the difference between having a tidy office vs. a messy office. And in Jane's case, the things she specifically cited about liking her old desk are things that are distractions - eavesdropping on Jacqueline's calls, chatting to other people. Wouldn't surprise me if Jacqueline knew that and that's why Jane is now sitting somewhere where she'll concentrate on her actual work.

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

(Not to Pinstripe per se, but how he's Jane's professional conscience or mentor or whatever he is. Why doesn't Jane have a female sounding board not named Sutton, Kat, or Jacqueline?)

Because it's not about that, it's about keeping Pinstripe in the mix as a love interest Jane will eventually get involved with again. Otherwise they would just have her talk (even more) to Sutton or Kat or Jacqueline - a woman having three female sounding boards on a TV show is so rare, it's hardly as if this show is failing the Bechdel test or making only a token effort in that direction. In Jane's case not only is her friendship with Kat and Sutton the central relationship of the show, but her relationship with Jacqueline has also been elevated to probably the second most central relationship of the show.

I don't mind the Kat/Adena drama and I appreciate that they actually presented an open relationship as an option, but they really need to point out that the way Adena did it isn't how it should be done. She wrote up rules on her own without any input from Kat. There has to be an actual two-way conversation about about how an open relationship would be handled. And as soon as Adena mentioned that one of the rules was no talking about it, I knew it wasn't going to work. If that's the only way Adena can handle an open relationship, that's perfectly valid - for her. Kat is someone who processes by talking about things, and she doesn't want a relationship where she can't process with her significant other - otherwise to her there's not much point in being in a relationship at all. And that's perfectly valid - for Kat. They both probably can handle an open relationship, but not with each other. There's a fundamental incompatibility there that an actual discussion about ground rules would have laid bare very quickly if Adena hadn't just come up with them on her own and dumped them on Kat.

Kat should have objected more and probably would have except she'd been expecting to be dumped and I think she was so relieved it wasn't that that she went along.

The Jane/Sutton storyline was so problematically handled for all the reasons posters have already given. But I did love Kat practically trying to wish herself into vanishing off the couch into thin air at one point while Jane and Sutton were fighting. Most of us have been there, Kat.

[dubbel zout]

9 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

it's about keeping Pinstripe in the mix as a love interest Jane will eventually get involved with again.

I know that. But that doesn't mean he has to mansplain. That's my biggest objection. But Jane is a terrible journalist not just because she needs Pinstripe to point out the obvious.

[Black Knight]

29 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I know that. But that doesn't mean he has to mansplain. That's my biggest objection.

Mansplaining to me is when a man directly ignores a woman's lived experience in some way: For instance, telling a woman something you would know she already knows if you did not view her as an inferior being, or directly contradicting her lived experience to say that "It wasn't really like that," or "Things like that don't happen."

[Mabinogia]

Is that what it means? I always thought mansplaining was when men would explain why it is so hard to be a man. 

It is annoying though that Jane needs Pinstripe to explain things she should, if she was decent at all at investigating, or even knowing basic things, already know. There has to be a better way to keep him on the show or, oh, IDK, let him go and when they are ready for her to have a love interest, if he's available hire him, otherwise find another generically attractive dark haired guy. It's not like he's that special in any way that they just have to have her end up with him. 

Honestly, one of the things I like about this show is that the girls' romantic relationships aren't nearly as important or strong as their friendship. Every single romantic partner on the show is replaceable IMO. The only one I even find interesting is Adena, but she'd be interesting with or without Kat as her partner. She's just a good character. 

[UNOSEZ]

4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

is annoying though that Jane needs Pinstripe to explain things she should, if she was decent at all at investigating, or even knowing basic things, already know. There has to be a better way to keep him on the show or, oh, IDK, let him go and when they are ready for her to have a love interest, if he's available hire him, otherwise find another generically attractive dark haired guy. It's not like he's that special in any way that they just have to have her end up with him

Or.. They could let the other guy who been there from the beginning take some of it on... You know Alex.. Who used to have talks with Tiny Jane.. Seeing as he's still part of the show

[CurlyATX]

I'm not a gun fan at all- grew up in SF and even though I now live in TX, it just isn't part of my lifestyle.  However, skeet shooting is so popular here, almost as much as golf in terms of networking.  I think Sutton's a better gun owner than most of the folks I know.  The gun was hidden and I think would have stayed that way until Jane found it, right?  Was Jane worried it could be stolen? Or was she worried that Sutton would go crazy with it?  There isn't even ammo at all and it's disassembled.  I just didn't get her hysteria.    Also, guns are pricey! Sutton is barely making any money but she turned her gun into earrings vs selling it?  I don't know anything about guns but I have a feeling she bought a nice one.  I was so proud when the gun range guy was proud of Sutton's abilities. 

Kat/Adena.  Why do they act like exploration with many partners is a necessary part of the lesbian experience?  I lost my virginity in a long-term relationship and I never told that bf that I "needed" to explore what I wanted by screwing a bunch of guys.  This is just one viewpoint, but my sexual exploration happened WITH my partner.  These hookups seem weird to me.  Wouldn't it be better for them to watch or read lesbian porn and try to "add something new"?  I almost thought that Kat would tell Adena that it wasn't that fun.  Isn't this the first relationship Kat's had where sex tied into love?  I'd imagine she has had enough of just physical sex.  

Sutton and Brooke.  Is it me, or was Sutton being a bit one-sided in using Brooke?  She never seemed to say "Hey, I really need your help." or "Could you do me a huge favor"?  It was like "hey, I'm calling... where is this bag?"  When she stalked Brooke it seemed that Brooke was genuinely glad to see Sutton until she turned it into a business proposition.   

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Mansplaining to me is when a man directly ignores a woman's lived experience in some way: For instance, telling a woman something you would know she already knows if you did not view her as an inferior being, or directly contradicting her lived experience to say that "It wasn't really like that," or "Things like that don't happen."

For me it's this explanation as well as a more general idea of "I'm a man so I'm automatically the best person to tell you this," when it's something anyone can say.

10 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Or.. They could let the other guy who been there from the beginning take some of it on... You know Alex.. Who used to have talks with Tiny Jane.. Seeing as he's still part of the show

Yes. I like this a lot, and Alex doesn't have the white-male privilege Pinstripe does, which is one thing that bugs me about Pinstripe being Jane's sounding board. Alex can give her a different POV as a natural matter of course.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

1 hour ago, CurlyATX said:

Sutton and Brooke.  Is it me, or was Sutton being a bit one-sided in using Brooke?  She never seemed to say "Hey, I really need your help." or "Could you do me a huge favor"?  It was like "hey, I'm calling... where is this bag?"  When she stalked Brooke it seemed that Brooke was genuinely glad to see Sutton until she turned it into a business proposition.   

Brooke didn’t seem to have much time for Sutton once she stopped partying with her (and stopped expensing Brooke’s drinks/drugs). I don’t think either one of them liked the other. Sutton liked having insider access to designers and Brooke liked the free money. 

[Gothish520]

On 7/23/2018 at 12:37 PM, dubbel zout said:

For me it's this explanation as well as a more general idea of "I'm a man so I'm automatically the best person to tell you this," when it's something anyone can say.

I don't recall Pinstripe coming off that way at all though. A man explaining something to a woman isn't automatically mansplaining.

[morakot]

I don't have a problem with Jacqueline changing Jane's desk assignment and from what I saw, it was about one desk away from her old desk. What I DID have a problem with is her complete obliviousness to the manners required in an open plan office where people are all writing.  When you work with words, other people using words around you can make it difficult to write. (At least at Incite, the other writers wore earphones to control their auditory surroundings.) I would be furious with Jane if she was my desk mate. Not only is she the boss's favorite, who expects our workspace to be designed around her, but she also encourages her friends to come and visit her to chat. No, not just chat, but shout, loudly, while I'm trying to work.  :-)

[CurlyATX]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 1:24 PM, morakot said:

When you work with words, other people using words around you can make it difficult to write. 

I am pretty much the only person who hates our open office environment.  But mostly, it's because I'm always on the phone with clients.  I'm not spilling company secrets but I feel self conscious when I know folks are listening to my calls.  I was able to get a small cube- no door though.  Jane's "squad" is loud and would probably sit on my desk while talking with "tiny Jane".  I'm sure I'd be complaining.