S01.E07: Pink Slip 2018.07.15

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Patty didn’t tell others- just her therapist. Patty wouldn’t out Stan like that- 1. She’s not cruel, 2. She and the kids would suffer if he lost his job due to being socially ostricized. 

James Vander Beek didn’t know Angel was trans either- he only said he couldn’t tell if she was Black or Puerto Rician (she could be both but in 2018 some people don’t know that); the machismo of his job culture liked that he punched James in the mouth. Now so long as he doesn’t bring his WOC mistress to the country club he should be fine.....

His realization about he and Angel’s relationship was more about himself and his personal confusion (vouyeurisyic tendencies) like someone said above. 

Agreed, but even though Patti didn't tell anyone "in real life," she still outed Stan to her therapist without his knowledge and then blindsided him with a surprise, extremely orchestrated confrontation. Telling her is one thing, but outing your partner to your therapist who is then expected to live referee your marital dispute in real time is messy imo. Just to me personally, that feels like playing dirty.

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It seemed like the entire basis of their relationship was sexual.  It's hard to imagine that they had meaningful conversations, or that they really knew each other on a deeper level, much less that he loved her.  She was deluding herself.  Once the sexual component was gone, there was nothing left.

I did laugh when Dick immediately had a shiny new replacement sugar baby waltz up to his apartment. Were trans women that easy to find in 1987? Nowadays, you'd find his profile on Trans Passions for sure.

15 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

I always figured that the Damon character was written to be a bit of a bore. On some level, he's the most mainstream of the ball folks in the sense that he didn't grow up poor or on the streets. Obviously his life wasn't easy because his parents are homophobic, but Ricky, Papi, Angel, and Blanca have all had a rough road to hoe. Perhaps Damon's "averageness" is supposed to offset the others' more dramatic lives. Even Blanca realizes that Damon's destined to do more with his life beyond the life he shares with them.

I may be overthinking this though.

There are definite parallels between Damon and Stan with their comfortable middle class upbringing in suburbia.

13 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Stan can get hit by a bus. Evan Peters is just too boyish for me to take seriously as an executive. He looks like a kid playing dress up.

Part of that is Evan Peters being cast to play teens his entire career, but I also see it as intentional. He's in over his head and his whole life is playing pretend. He got married and had kids too young and is now having to bear that responsibility while resigning himself to the fact that his real life is boring monotony, far from his childhood dream of the glamorous business world. He did what he thought he was supposed to do and he's miserable as a result. It makes sense that the whole fetish thing catalyzed some adolescent regression and rebellion as he tries to figure out who he is and what he wants. 

[jumper sage]

On 7/16/2018 at 8:27 AM, qtpye said:

I just can not believe she did not save a dime after being supported for a decade. I get that NYC rent and the surgery was expensive, but she had to know this day was coming. Also, the man told her he would not keep her if she had the surgery.

I have had some experience with the disbelief going from transgender to sexual reassignment surgery.  At least 30 years ago I had a neighbor who was gay and also a cross dresser.  I know that cross dressing has nothing to do with sexual preference.  We were friends for years.  He was a biker and his job was an engineer in the auto industry working with cars/crashes/reworking parts of cars to lower injury accident.  When he wasn't dressing at night he was wearing biker wear or the chinos/shirt/tie wear.  He decided to get sexual reassignment surgery and I asked him if he thought about the ramifications and he said nothing would change.  I knew everything would change and it did.  The men she dated no longer wanted to date her.  She was crushed.  Her main boyfriend said, "I like girls with dicks and I do not like vaginas".  To me it was obvious but to my friend it was life altering.  She kept her job and kept her classification but never got another upgrade.  Her mother said, "Welcome to being a woman".  She could not understand that as a man who cross dressed, never at work, her employer should just trust that she knows her job.  "Well honey", I said, "This is what happens to most women".  I tried to be understanding but her anger grew and grew.  She would argue with me about everything.  It's not because I am a woman but it's because I suck at my job.  OH NO SHE DIDN'T.  Just meeting at the diner would be a major argument.  I would show up on a Saturday in jeans and a blouse but she would show up dressed to the nines and in full makeup.  She would say, "No one is going to marry a mess like you".  HOW FUCKING DARE SHE.  She would literally wait at the door to have me hold the door for her because I was dressed like a man - in jeans and a blouse.  She talked meaner to me as a Emma that she ever talked to me as David.  I decided that I wouldn't put up with that from David and am not putting up with it from Emma.

So I get the shock we saw in Electra.  Now don't they have to go through therapy while doing hormone therapy?  I think it's a good idea.

Edited July 17, 2018 by jumper sage

[jumper sage]

15 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Agreed, but even though Patti didn't tell anyone "in real life," she still outed Stan to her therapist without his knowledge and then blindsided him with a surprise, extremely orchestrated confrontation. Telling her is one thing, but outing your partner to your therapist who is then expected to live referee your marital dispute in real time is messy imo. Just to me personally, that feels like playing dirty.

I thought she did it very well.  The therapist is bound to not tell anyone.  I don't see what is so dirty.  I think Patti was very caring but did need to get things over with and protect the children.  I think it's dirty to sleep with others and not tell your wife.

[Shadowcat2576]

16 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

So I get the shock we saw in Electra.  Now don't they have to go through therapy while doing hormone therapy?  I think it's a good idea.

I believe like many things, that she is a good Mother, that she "passes" better than anyone else, the idea that her guy would stick around because she is just so fabulous is a fantasy she created.

 

Depending on where one is, therapy may be required for HRT but you can also usually get it through informed consent. To receive GCS, therapy is required now and 30 years ago as well as at least one year of living full-time.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

I thought she did it very well.  The therapist is bound to not tell anyone.  I don't see what is so dirty.  I think Patti was very caring but did need to get things over with and protect the children.  I think it's dirty to sleep with others and not tell your wife.

fair point lol. Still, she should've told him, but also to your point he wouldn't have shown up. I have sympathy for both, if that makes sense.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, jumper sage said:

I thought she did it very well.  The therapist is bound to not tell anyone.  I don't see what is so dirty.  I think Patti was very caring but did need to get things over with and protect the children.  I think it's dirty to sleep with others and not tell your wife.

Yes so much this. I think Patty handled it well. She also had to think of her own protection. I don’t think she believes Stan would hurt her, but she’s caught him lying red handed. When men are questioned about their sexuality they do socially inappropriate things. She wanted answers from him and a therapist was a neutral 3rd party. Had I been in Patty’s position I would’ve handled it just the way she did- I thought it was lady like without being a push over. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The other thing to remember is that Patty clealry needed to talk to SOMEONE about the situation. It’s not fair that she should be expected to deal with so much shocking news about her husband without being able to vent about it and try to get some feedback or advice about what to do. She took the route that afforded Stan the most privacy for his secret by seeing a therapist who is bound by law to keep that information to herself. If she had gone to her mother or a friend, chances are that they would have blabbed it to someone and then it would be just a matter of time before lots of people knew. 

[Ohwell]

I think that Patty did the right thing by talking to the therapist, but the thing that got me (and Stan) was that she'd already talked to her twice before and I think she should have told him that in the car on the way to the therapists office.  I doubt he would have jumped out the car and ran, lol.  She was right, but nobody likes to feel blindsided and ganged up on.      

[ElectricBoogaloo]

40 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

nobody likes to feel blindsided

I’m pretty sure Patty felt blindsided when she found out Stan was having an affair and rented an apartment for his mistress so there’s that. 

[Ohwell]

38 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I’m pretty sure Patty felt blindsided when she found out Stan was having an affair and rented an apartment for his mistress so there’s that. 

It goes without saying she was blindsided as well, I'm just referring to the visit to the therapist's.  Patty talks about taking the kids and he's like wait? what?  She and the therapist probably talked about finances, and gawd knows what else.  And then he sees the two of them in a united front against him. 

So sure, he fucked up, but then he also got blindsided. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Ohwell

[Irlandesa]

On 7/16/2018 at 7:37 AM, Scarlett45 said:

I think Stan is “confused” about what he wants, which would be fine if he was some college kid, but he’s a grown man with a career, wife and two kids. Just disappearing like that on Angel was cowardly, she’s a person with feelings and he’s just jerked her around. What did he think her life was like?

 I think he had no clue what her life was like.  It's not like ball culture was extremely well known.  There's a stigma even today.  It was much more pronounced 30 years ago. Stan is stuck somewhere in the middle.  The life he's supposed to want doesn't entirely do it for him but he also can't see a place for himself in Angel's world.  If it weren't for his kids, they could maybe go somewhere else to try to create a separate life but they exist and he has a responsibility to them.

On 7/16/2018 at 8:15 AM, mtlchick said:

I'm actually stunned that Electra didn't have ANY money saved up.  It's been drilled in my head for years to put 10% of my pay into my savings account.  Nothing in her thought she should have done the same in case of emergency?  Now she's in a position where she's alone and where no one will bow down to her demands. 

I'm not surprised.   We know she just spent a lot of money on surgery--money she had to steal.  We don't know much about her background or how much money training she got growing up.  She has had a lover supporting her for ten years.  She probably had others before that.  We saw how easily she would have had a replacement for Chris Meloni's character if she hadn't had the surgery. 

So she probably knew the end would come but she just couldn't fathom that it'd come so quickly.  It could be attributed to the fact that she's transgender but really, this isn't that uncommon within the population in general.  There are a lot of people who live paycheck to paycheck.  Even people who make decent money can fall into the trap of spending what they make over saving more when they get raises. 

31 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

he and the therapist probably talked about finances, and gawd knows what else.  And then he sees the two of them in a united front against him. 

So sure, he fucked up, but then he also got blindsided. 

I feel for Stan. I do.  But he doesn't get to be the victim here.  Patty did speak with her therapist in order to get her thoughts in order.   That's what a therapist is for.  She didn't tell Stan ahead of time.  Instead, she created a situation where she knew he'd show up (I don't think he would have if he knew what was happening) and where she knew she'd be safe with a third party. 

So yes, he probably felt blindsided. But he set this all in motion.

Elektra and Stan sort of were in similar situations.  They both did things that could cost them their lifestyle but both refused to consider that possibility.  So when they found out they misjudged their partners, they felt blindsided.  They shouldn't have been.

I too worry about Angel back on the piers.  But if she dies, I don't see how Stan, Patty and his boss fit in.  Maybe the intent is to excise that group from the show but right now, Angel is their only connection.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I did laugh when Dick immediately had a shiny new replacement sugar baby waltz up to his apartment. Were trans women that easy to find in 1987? Nowadays, you'd find his profile on Trans Passions for sure.

Elektra knew where to advertise to find a replacement for Dick, so I guess it's pretty easy.

[luckyroll3]

15 hours ago, planet17 said:

I think Elektra's story this week was the most interesting (and sad). It was a no-win situation for her and I wonder how many trans women goes through something similar. As a pre-operated trans woman, most of the relationships she got were related to sex and her penis. With men we would now call pansexual. The "problem" is that Elektra is a trans woman who needed the operation to feel complete, but by doing that she lost the men interested in her. And now, even tho she had the surgery, she still isn't accepted as she thought because with or without her vagina she's still a trans woman. She's still a "freak" like that guard called her. 

On another note, as a Drag Race fan, I loved the ball this week. It got a club kid vibe and was very interesting to watch.

I also thought Elektra's story was the most interesting.  What I found to be the most compelling is that so much of her identity and the value she places on herself is wrapped up in her ability to "pass", so much so that she uses it validate her superiority over the other ladies (and they allow her to).  Yet, despite this, all of her relationships with men have been/are due to the fact that she's a beautiful woman with a penis.  None of the other stuff matters.  And to see that realization dawn her with both Chris Meloni and new potential Sugar Daddy, was a bit heartbreaking.  Here's this thing she hates and has been desperately trying to forget and get rid of, and once she does, she recognizes that things is actually what was valued most be everyone else.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 7/17/2018 at 12:47 AM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I think the writers intentionally had Stan come to Galactic night at the ball to really hammer the cis white voyeur narrative over the head. Other than Summer flirting and general hostility to his presence, I'm not sure why this would trigger a bigger crisis than his boss exposing him and his wife not only leaving him, but knowing and telling others his mistress is trans. That was a dick move clearing out the apartment. Talk about being desperate to erase a chapter of your life and pretend it never happened.

I've talked a LOT of shit about the acting on this show (Elektra's delivery is so poor is cheapens the emotional impact of her storyline and good LORD, Abundance and now Ferocity are unfunny parodies of themselves. Candy and Lulu are...bad. You're on a Ryan Murphy show, you can't spring for some lessons?). That aside, I teared up when Papi started to cry after he realized Blanca was actually kicking him out and desperately tried to backpedal. 

Damon is annoying and gets whinier every week. 

Really?  I agree that Lulu is terrible, but I think the Candy actress is so natural. I love her!

The Damon actor is REALLY bad. 

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

I also thought Elektra's story was the most interesting.  What I found to be the most compelling is that so much of her identity and the value she places on herself is wrapped up in her ability to "pass", so much so that she uses it validate her superiority over the other ladies (and they allow her to).  Yet, despite this, all of her relationships with men have been/are due to the fact that she's a beautiful woman with a penis.  None of the other stuff matters.  And to see that realization dawn her with both Chris Meloni and new potential Sugar Daddy, was a bit heartbreaking.  Here's this thing she hates and has been desperately trying to forget and get rid of, and once she does, she recognizes that things is actually what was valued most be everyone else.  

Electra has done what I have seen a lot of Cisgender women do. She has placed a lot of her value on her looks and not realizing that she is objectifying herself and the type of men that only want her for her physical attributes do not care or respect her as a person. There is nothing wrong with having pride as a beautiful woman, but beauty is only skin deep. Can you imagine if Electra had used some of that sugar daddy money to get a college degree and an MBA instead of designer clothing? She probably would have been working for Trump showing Stan and Dawson who’s really in charge.

[Ohwell]

20 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I feel for Stan. I do.  But he doesn't get to be the victim here. 

I didn't say he was the victim; I said he was blindsided (yes, Patty too), and that was my interpretation of the events that unfolded at the therapists.  

I'm gonna let the "blindsided" argument end now.  We can agree to disagree.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Ohwell

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, qtpye said:

Electra has done what I have seen a lot of Cisgender women do. She has placed a lot of her value on her looks and not realizing that she is objectifying herself and the type of men that only want her for her physical attributes do not care or respect her as a person. There is nothing wrong with having pride as a beautiful woman, but beauty is only skin deep. Can you imagine if Electra had used some of that sugar daddy money to get a college degree and an MBA instead of designer clothing? She probably would have been working for Trump showing Stan and Dawson who’s really in charge.

I agree. This ties into a social theory I have called “the beautiful woman syndrome”; when a woman is very beautiful she is often only prized and evaluated as such. She buys into the proganda that said beauty will protect her from unhappiness* and misogyny- when she gets older she realizes that said assumptions were false and has a BIG LET DOWN. Think of Hallie Berry and her pattern of asshole men. 

 

*After Kate Spades passing do you know how many women commented “and she was a good looking woman!!”(like if you’re a good looking woman you shouldn’t be depressed)

Edited July 19, 2018 by Scarlett45

[planet17]

7 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

I also thought Elektra's story was the most interesting.  What I found to be the most compelling is that so much of her identity and the value she places on herself is wrapped up in her ability to "pass", so much so that she uses it validate her superiority over the other ladies (and they allow her to).  Yet, despite this, all of her relationships with men have been/are due to the fact that she's a beautiful woman with a penis.  None of the other stuff matters.  And to see that realization dawn her with both Chris Meloni and new potential Sugar Daddy, was a bit heartbreaking.  Here's this thing she hates and has been desperately trying to forget and get rid of, and once she does, she recognizes that things is actually what was valued most be everyone else.  

I'm not sure if "valued" is exactly the right word, because there is nothing complimentary about how men looked at her. She was like a sex toy for them. But I got your point, and it's sad because Elektra really needed to do the surgery to feel complete.

Her story made me wonder about Stan and Angel. Even tho Stan didn't make it clear that he's with her because of her penis and he relates to her more as a human, he did make it clear he's fascinated about her because she's unique. I do wonder if he'd still feel that way about her if she decided to operate.

[qtpye]

41 minutes ago, planet17 said:

I'm not sure if "valued" is exactly the right word, because there is nothing complimentary about how men looked at her. She was like a sex toy for them. But I got your point, and it's sad because Elektra really needed to do the surgery to feel complete.

Her story made me wonder about Stan and Angel. Even tho Stan didn't make it clear that he's with her because of her penis and he relates to her more as a human, he did make it clear he's fascinated about her because she's unique. I do wonder if he'd still feel that way about her if she decided to operate.

The way Electra thought she could convince her sugar daddy to keep supporting her even though he expressly told her he did not want her to have the operation makes me think she tricked herself into thinking he did care for her. Their arrangement had lasted longer than both of his marriages, but she learned the truth the hard way. I actually do not blame her for her actions, but she really should have made sure she was more financially sound so she did not have to go back to peep shows.

[Scarlett45]

@planet17 I think valued is the right word. Electra was a very expensive sex toy and companion- if you don’t value something you don’t spend lots of money on it over and over again. In the economic sense she was quite valuable- in the emotional sense not at all. 

[Mozelle]

On 7/16/2018 at 12:40 AM, AgentRXS said:

I guess that because last week was his episode to shine, we only got like 5 minutes of Pray Tell this week. Which would be fine if this season wasn't only 8 episodes long. Boo!

Even though Stan stuck out like a sore thumb at the ball scene anyway, that night's particular theme probably just pushed him over the edge sooner than he was expecting. Damn Stan, you could've given Angel the place for the rest of the month before clearing it out and placing all her stuff in a garbage bag. Cold af.

Loved the "My Two Dads" clip and that Stan's boss was unbothered by the fist fight--of course, he would love/approve of such antics. I also loved Shannon's "Let The Music Play" in the background. I was wondering if/when it was going to show up on this series. That song is forever my jam.

Well, Electra, you can't say he didn't warn you. Men with money and power will never have a shortage of women looking to fulfill their fantasies for the right price. The fact that he replaced her with someone younger and lighter was not lost on me either. Just another kick in the face.  Someone as street savvy as her should have known better.

Now I'm scared for Angel's life. Why is she on the piers and not at the peep show?! I'm afraid that she is going to get in the car with wrong person and get hurt or worse. Go back to the peep shows, Angel!

I have to wonder if that was intentional on the writers' and casting's parts? Because it did cross my mind when I saw the new "sugar baby" (for lack of a better term right now) being let up to Dick's place that he really traded in a dark-skinned woman for a light-skinned woman.

On 7/16/2018 at 9:07 AM, SHD said:

I wonder if Angel went back to the docks because once she gave up her peep show spot, it was filled and she couldn't get back in. That would add another layer of tragedy to the break-up/abandonment. She not only lost material things and her dream life, but she lost her safety.

I gave the Electra acting level a pass a lot this year because I attributed the camp/overacting to a persona she was putting on. But that scene with Christopher Meloni really exposed her poor acting.

I listen to Still Processing, a podcast from the New York Times that is hosted by Jenna Wortham and Wesley Morris. A couple episodes ago they talked about Pose, and part of the conversation mentioned the acting on the show. Their take on it gave me a different outlook on the acting, which I have found to be over-the-top (and sometimes painful). Instead of focusing on how it seems stilted and not great, I've been thinking on the acting, especially Dominique Jackson's acting, as trying to emulate the big acting that was on shows like Dynasty and Falcon Crest, which I remember my mom watching. It lets me free myself from critiquing that part of the show lol.

[hoodooznoodooz]

What do we think the salary might have been at that time, working at a peep show?

[Meedis]

No way in hell I'd refuse Chris Meloni....ever!    With that said I'd definitely be saving my coins for that eventual day.

[aradia22]

Loved Papi's baseball cap. Great print. The guys usual aren't as in on the period fashion so that was a nice touch.

I liked that Blanca was no nonsense with him with that one call line.

I didn't expect to see Meloni again. The writing in that scene was obvious but pretty decent. This was a moment when Elektra's bad acting stood out. She gives me model vibes... good at delivering one liners and looking fierce and beautiful but bad at emoting or being sensitive/vulnerable.

That orange wrap dress wasn't impressive on its own but Elektra was wearing the hell out of it.

Are Elektra's "children" really so spoiled that none of them contribute anything to the rent? What was their plan if/when Meloni dumped her?

I like that Ricky told Blanca the truth. Maybe he really is a good egg. Damon and Angel are idiots. They have no sense of consequences. 

Angel and Stan having their microwave dinners was both sad and weirdly romantic. It was also complete nonsense. I appreciated that the wrote in dialogue to explain his family life and work (without making me watch more boring scenes) but I don't think this is going to be new normal/happily ever after for these two. Oh, well. I still sense danger but they are cute together. And it does help that they're two of the better actors on the show.

Elektra's children thinking they can start their own house is as stupid as none of them apparently saving up any money. Unless they didn't think to mention it. Do they work? We know about the house of Evangelista but not about what any of Elektra's children do all day.

The younger model who replaced Elektra is adorable. Is she not an actress? Her few lines were better than some of the other characters on the show. Also, it must burn that the new girl is petite and feminine when Elektra prides herself on her realness. They filmed that to really emphasize how tall Elektra is.

The whole drug operation felt like a joke. Especially the main boss. I was getting theater kid vibes. It felt like playacting. I mean, I'm prepared to take it seriously for the show but I'm just saying it read false. 

Elektra's "flirting" was hilarious. Almost as good as her reads. 

I still don't buy Elektra's children having the resources to set up their own house.

I give Damon credit for sulking but not being mad. Angel, however, is being an idiot. She's okay because she has a rich boyfriend to take care of her. What if Papi drew the cops or even criminals to their house? What would happen to their family then? What does Angel care when she can run off to Stan? 

Blanca randomly talking to Damon's teacher is weird. I know they've had their moments but they're not exactly best friends. This would not be happening if this wasn't a TV show with a certain number of actors on the payroll.

That ball felt like something from Face/Off. It had very little to do with realness as I understand it from Paris is Burning. A lot of original Star Trek/basic 60's alien vibes too. This night seemed designed for Stan to feel alienated vs. understanding anything about ball culture. Given what he said to Angel in previous episodes, I think he would understand about realness and showing how well they can fit roles denied to them by mainstream white society. 

LOL, what? Why do Ferocity want Papi? He has no particular skills. This feels like another example of stuff happening because they have to recycle the same actors. It would make more sense to drop Papi from the show or have him hang out with the drug dealers for a while (off screen) if they wanted to bench him rather than having him get adopted for no conceivable reason. Well, apparently they're going to make him an errand boy but that doesn't seem like a good enough reason.

Elektra doing the exact same thing as Angel was a sharp decline. Were there no other jobs? I know they were trying to make a point about the opportunities available for transwomen but is Elektra qualified for anything? Would she get rejected if she applied to be... I don't know, some kind of secretary/clerk who works in a filing room? 

She was giving me Donna Summer realness at the end. I like her hair like that. Makeup on point.

Similarly, all the things being removed from the apartment without warning for Angel just seemed like it was for dramatic effect. 

Speaking of Angel, did Elektra TAKE her job? Why was she back to hooking at the end of the episode?

[aradia22]

Quote

She could maybe work as a dominatrix?!! I could see her enjoying that and being paid well for it. 

I support this as a future storyline. That definitely sounds like the right job for her. 

[TheGourmez]

On 7/17/2018 at 10:05 AM, justmehere said:

I'm not saying that she shouldn't have saved, but I can see where her money went, too.

And the money went to her surgery, right? She took a gamble that she'd be able to spend all her and Abundance's money on that surgery and her sugar daddy wouldn't care....and she lost the gamble. All these comments about how she should have had savings confuse me - she did, and she spent it on the surgery.