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Anticipation: It's Getting Scary Out There

Meredith Quill

By Meredith Quill
in Lovecraft Country

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Yokosmom

Yokosmom

Well, he could in the title for a number of reasons...  There is (obviously) a supernatural element to the goings-on, so that would tie in to the story.  There are monsters, though of the non-tentacled variety (humans).  Also, Lovecraft was apparently a virulent racist, so that would also make it relevant.

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millennium

millennium

(edited)
On 5/11/2018 at 11:27 AM, Yokosmom said:

Well, he could in the title for a number of reasons...  There is (obviously) a supernatural element to the goings-on, so that would tie in to the story.  There are monsters, though of the non-tentacled variety (humans).  Also, Lovecraft was apparently a virulent racist, so that would also make it relevant.

Lovecraft was not a virulent racist.    He was an Anglophile who fantasized about being a subject of King George prior to the American Revolution.  He frequently expressed irritation and dismay over the way poor immigrants took up housing in Providence's old Colonial homes and neighborhoods and allowed the properties to become rundown and blighted.   His suspicion, distrust and attitude towards people of other races was no more or less pronounced than any other white man or woman of his time.    We need to stop imposing today's standards on past generations.    

I might also add that Lovecraft, the alleged racist, married Sonia Haft Greene, a New York Jewish woman.

Edited by millennium
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Yokosmom

Yokosmom

I'm afraid that my "virulent racist" line came from a half remembered book review of a Lovecraft biography.   Not very scientific, on my part, I guess.  I thought that when his personal papers were examined, his views were more vehement that were common at the time, but I could well be mis-remembering.  I do realize that many beliefs that are considered awful now were once quite common.

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Epeolatrix

Epeolatrix

(edited)

Marrying Sonia meant nothing with regards to his feelings on Jews; he outright told her that she no longer belonged to 'these mongrels' because she was assimilated and with him. "You are now Mrs H. P. Lovecraft of 598 Angell St., Providence, Rhode Island!" She recounted that "whenever he would meet crowds of people—in the subway, or at the noon hours, at the sidewalks of Broadway or crowds, whoever he happened to find them, and these were usually the workers of the minority races—he would become livid with anger and rage. He seemed almost to lose his mind." Sometimes, he would insist that they walk down the center of a street so that he wouldn't have to share a sidewalk with "mongerels." That's not merely racist, that's pathological.

"The organic things—Italo-Semitico-Mongoloid—inhabiting that awful cesspool could not by any stretch of the imagination be call’d human. They were monstrous and nebulous adumbrations of the pithecanthropoid and amoebal; vaguely moulded from some stinking viscous slime of earth’s corruption, and slithering and oozing in and on the filthy streets or in and out of doorways in a fashion suggestive of nothing but infesting worms or deep-sea unnamabilities." That's not about his monsters, that's about people living in the Lower East Side of New York. Other white people called him out on this at the time and he just dug down further.

"[Hitler’s] vision . . . is romantic and immature," he stated after Hitler became chancellor of Germany. "I know he’s a clown but god I like the boy!"

And of course, there's his poem "On the Creation of Ni**ers". That one's easy to find online.

If he was driven to froth this much, virulent is a perfectly fine word to describe him. None of which means that we shouldn't read, analyze, critique, and—in some cases—enjoy his work.

Edited by Violet Impulse
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rollacoaster

rollacoaster

On 5/14/2018 at 10:10 AM, millennium said:

Lovecraft was not a virulent racist.    He was an Anglophile who fantasized about being a subject of King George prior to the American Revolution.  He frequently expressed irritation and dismay over the way poor immigrants took up housing in Providence's old Colonial homes and neighborhoods and allowed the properties to become rundown and blighted.   His suspicion, distrust and attitude towards people of other races was no more or less pronounced than any other white man or woman of his time.    We need to stop imposing today's standards on past generations.    

I might also add that Lovecraft, the alleged racist, married Sonia Haft Greene, a New York Jewish woman.

He had a cat named N**ger Man. Maybe a little racist.

I'm not a horror fan, but, if it has Jordan Peele's name on it, I'll give it a shot. 

 

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Epeolatrix

Epeolatrix

"Lovecraft Country Radio is the official podcast for HBO’s Lovecraft Country. Every week, host Ashley C. Ford discusses Lovecraft Country with one of the show’s writers, Shannon Houston. Join them as they dig into what inspired the writers room and explore how the show's 1950’s setting reflects contemporary issues." Download from wherever you get your podcasts. There's only the one intro episode so far, but I was pleased to hear it.

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BK1978

BK1978

On 7/27/2020 at 6:32 PM, ICantDoThatDave said:

I was interested based on the trailer but once I saw JJ Abrams was involved, I'm out.  We're in "fool me ten times, shame on me" territory with him.

The minute I saw this was another, "It's 2020 and all white people are bad."  I decided this was not for me.

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DollEyes

DollEyes

(edited)
On 8/11/2020 at 2:24 AM, BK1978 said:

The minute I saw this was another, "It's 2020 and all white people are bad."  I decided this was not for me.

Since the show is set in the segregated America of the 1950s, the chances of the show having racist White villains is above average.

There might be some White heroes, Black villains and everything in between, but given the time period, White racism against people of color in general and Blacks in particular not only existed, it dominated.

  As a Black woman, I don't like every BlackTV character either, but if the good exceeds the bad, I give a new show a chance and more often than not, I'm pleasantly surprised. If a favorite character isn't Black, I'll see life through their eyes, which opens mine in the process.

Bottom line: evil is evil, regardless of color-or, in this show's case, species.

Edited by DollEyes
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For Cereals

For Cereals

On 8/10/2020 at 11:24 PM, BK1978 said:

The minute I saw this was another, "It's 2020 and all white people are bad."  I decided this was not for me.

That’s too bad.  History happens and there are allies and sometimes people show you who they are...sometimes virulently.  We hopefully learn from it and we hopefully do better

I want to see a good story.

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BK1978

BK1978

2 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Since the show is set in the segregated America of the 1950s, the chances of the show having racist White villains is above average.

There might be some White heroes, Black villains and everything in between, but given the time period, White racism against people of color in general and Blacks in particular not only existed, it dominated.

  As a Black woman, I don't like every BlackTV character either, but if the good exceeds the bad, I give a new show a chance and more often than not, I'm pleasantly surprised. If a favorite character isn't Black, I'll see life through their eyes, which opens mine in the process.

Bottom line: evil is evil, regardless of color-or, in this show's case, species.

There is no excusing what happened in the past, I am not trying to deny that or make excuses for that.  But as one of the producers of the show said about casting white male leads in his movies, "It's been done already."   That is how I feel about this show, it had been done already. This is not groundbreaking  and they are not doing anything new.  Give me something new, not the same stuff over and over again.

Then you have the narrative in the media of the people who worked on the show, where they say they are trying to reclaim Lovecraft's name.  Obviously nobody should agree with his views.  However, if they (the producers or actors) are so against him and his views then why are they so willing to profit off his name?  Because they know his name (for good or evil) is a drawing point.  I find it ridiculous that the people who work on this show are trying to make it seem like a noble cause to use his name, when it is nothing but a cash grab.

I also agree with you about characters on television.  As someone who will drop what I am doing the minute an old episode of Sanford and Son comes on, I do not need the character to be the same skin color as me to enjoy the show. 

1 hour ago, ShellsandCheese said:

The show is set in the 1950’s and that was your takeaway from the trailer? 

Yes because it was made in 2020 (Probably 2019 but you get my drift) and that seems to increasingly be the narrative that shows want to take.

I hope people who do watch it, like it.  It is just not for me.

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DollEyes

DollEyes

1 hour ago, BK1978 said:

There is no excusing what happened in the past, I am not trying to deny that or make excuses for that.  But as one of the producers of the show said about casting white male leads in his movies, "It's been done already."   That is how I feel about this show, it had been done already. This is not groundbreaking  and they are not doing anything new.  Give me something new, not the same stuff over and over again.

Then you have the narrative in the media of the people who worked on the show, where they say they are trying to reclaim Lovecraft's name.  Obviously nobody should agree with his views.  However, if they (the producers or actors) are so against him and his views then why are they so willing to profit off his name?  Because they know his name (for good or evil) is a drawing point.  I find it ridiculous that the people who work on this show are trying to make it seem like a noble cause to use his name, when it is nothing but a cash grab.

I also agree with you about characters on television.  As someone who will drop what I am doing the minute an old episode of Sanford and Son comes on, I do not need the character to be the same skin color as me to enjoy the show. 

Yes because it was made in 2020 (Probably 2019 but you get my drift) and that seems to increasingly be the narrative that shows want to take.

I hope people who do watch it, like it.  It is just not for me.

I respectfully disagree. For one thing, IMO the show is groundbreaking in terms of having leads of color star in a genre-based, primetime show on a premium cable network. This gives people who haven't often seen themselves portrayed in a positive light before in the horror/sci-fi genre the chance to do so.

As for using H.P. Lovecraft's name in the title, his isn't the only big name involved with the show by a long shot, as Jordan Peele and J.J. Abrams prove-and nowadays, a lot more people know their names than Lovecraft's especially Peele, who has gone from being one half of one of the most successful comedy duos of all time to an Oscar-winning screenwriter and one of the most respected names in modern horror. Peele and Abrams aren't the first filmmakers to mess with an original author's work, as numerous Shakespearean remakes, countless Frankenstein/Wolf Man/Dracula films and Jesus Christ Superstar , to literally name a few.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if Lovecraft Country's first episode is any indication, I'm glad I gave it a chance.

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BK1978

BK1978

14 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

I respectfully disagree. For one thing, IMO the show is groundbreaking in terms of having leads of color star in a genre-based, primetime show on a premium cable network. This gives people who haven't often seen themselves portrayed in a positive light before in the horror/sci-fi genre the chance to do so.

As for using H.P. Lovecraft's name in the title, his isn't the only big name involved with the show by a long shot, as Jordan Peele and J.J. Abrams prove-and nowadays, a lot more people know their names than Lovecraft's especially Peele, who has gone from being one half of one of the most successful comedy duos of all time to an Oscar-winning screenwriter and one of the most respected names in modern horror. Peele and Abrams aren't the first filmmakers to mess with an original author's work, as numerous Shakespearean remakes, countless Frankenstein/Wolf Man/Dracula films and Jesus Christ Superstar , to literally name a few.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if Lovecraft Country's first episode is any indication, I'm glad I gave it a chance.

Avery Brooks in DS9 (Who is my personal favorite Star Trek Captain), Nichelle Nichols on the original Star Trek, Danai Gurira, Lennie James, Colman Domingo on The Walking Dead/Fear of the Walking Dead, Sonequa Martin-Green on Star Trek: Discovery/Walking Dead, Rutina Wesley and Nelsan Ellis on True Blood, Henry Simmons on Agents of Shield, Candice Patton and Jesse L. Martin (Personally liked him better on Law & Order) on the Flash, David Ramsey on Arrow.  I could go on but I think this list is long.  All were either leads or major characters on genre-based shows and most were portrayed in a positive light.  Colman Domingo's character was a bit of a villain/rouge character during the first season of FOTWD, but he's had a redemption arc and he is one of the more enjoyable characters on the show.  So yes I will again say the show is not groundbreaking though that was not really why I was saying it was not groundbreaking.  I was thinking more along the lines of, "White people are the villains and did horrible stuff in the past."  Which once again I am not refuting because it is a historical fact, I am just saying I feel like it has been done already.

Get Out (Yes I know it was another white people are evil, which proves my point that it has been done by Jordan already.  But I cannot deny it was a great horror movie) was great but US...that was awful, I still get annoyed over the fact that I spent money to see that movie.  I will wait to see what he does with Candyman until I judge how I feel about his horror chops.  Now I will say I could watch Keanu all day, that movie was awesome, hands down one of the funnier comedies I have watched in recent years. 

I don't care if they are messing with his work.  That was never my point, my point was that Lovecraft still has a cult like following and his works are held in high regard even after all of these years.  I do feel like them using his name, while also trying to make it seem like they are using his name for some noble cause,  is a cash grab because there will be people who are into Lovecraft that will watch the show.

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DollEyes

DollEyes

3 hours ago, BK1978 said:

Avery Brooks in DS9 (Who is my personal favorite Star Trek Captain), Nichelle Nichols on the original Star Trek, Danai Gurira, Lennie James, Colman Domingo on The Walking Dead/Fear of the Walking Dead, Sonequa Martin-Green on Star Trek: Discovery/Walking Dead, Rutina Wesley and Nelsan Ellis on True Blood, Henry Simmons on Agents of Shield, Candice Patton and Jesse L. Martin (Personally liked him better on Law & Order) on the Flash, David Ramsey on Arrow.  I could go on but I think this list is long.  All were either leads or major characters on genre-based shows and most were portrayed in a positive light.  Colman Domingo's character was a bit of a villain/rouge character during the first season of FOTWD, but he's had a redemption arc and he is one of the more enjoyable characters on the show.  So yes I will again say the show is not groundbreaking though that was not really why I was saying it was not groundbreaking.  I was thinking more along the lines of, "White people are the villains and did horrible stuff in the past."  Which once again I am not refuting because it is a historical fact, I am just saying I feel like it has been done already.

Get Out (Yes I know it was another white people are evil, which proves my point that it has been done by Jordan already.  But I cannot deny it was a great horror movie) was great but US...that was awful, I still get annoyed over the fact that I spent money to see that movie.  I will wait to see what he does with Candyman until I judge how I feel about his horror chops.  Now I will say I could watch Keanu all day, that movie was awesome, hands down one of the funnier comedies I have watched in recent years. 

I don't care if they are messing with his work.  That was never my point, my point was that Lovecraft still has a cult like following and his works are held in high regard even after all of these years.  I do feel like them using his name, while also trying to make it seem like they are using his name for some noble cause,  is a cash grab because there will be people who are into Lovecraft that will watch the show.

Again respectfully disagreeing. Most of the names you mentioned starred on broadcast or basic cable network shows. Rutina Wesley and the late Nelsan Ellis' roles on HBO's True Blood were exceptions, not the rule. My point is that HBO's willingness to trust Jordan Peele to make Lovecraft Country and the mostly positive response to the first episode could lead to other, similar projects by other creators of color. As for Peele and Abrams' using Lovecraft's name to attract viewers, since they're neither the first nor the last to do so ( plus Lovecraft's being a racist asshole IRL), I don't care.

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For Cereals

For Cereals

7 hours ago, BK1978 said:

Then you have the narrative in the media of the people who worked on the show, where they say they are trying to reclaim Lovecraft's name.  Obviously nobody should agree with his views.  However, if they (the producers or actors) are so against him and his views then why are they so willing to profit off his name?  Because they know his name (for good or evil) is a drawing point.  I find it ridiculous that the people who work on this show are trying to make it seem like a noble cause to use his name, when it is nothing but a cash grab.

I don't see it as a cash grab, or trying to reclaim Lovecraft's name.   Lovecraft is responsible for so many sci-fi and horror themes and he is due credit, but when you learn about his beliefs, it's more than disappointing.  It's hard to reconcile that something you love so much could come from someone filled with so much hate.   I'm sure Ruff, Peele and Abrams are all huge fans of his work and hold it in high regard.  The same could be said for some of Tolkien's themes.  I don't think the Coen brothers are racist and I LOVE their films, but their response about inclusion was disappointing.  However, if that's not what they do, they don't...lest we end up with Woody Allen's attempt only to have the character be a prostitute. 

And a little of this too:

28 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

As for Peele and Abrams' using Lovecraft's name to attract viewers, since they're neither the first nor the last to do so ( plus Lovecraft's being a racist asshole IRL), I don't care.

 

3 hours ago, BK1978 said:

Yes I know it was another white people are evil

I didn't see it that way.  I saw it as a take on bias from both sides.

 

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BK1978

BK1978

14 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Again respectfully disagreeing. Most of the names you mentioned starred on broadcast or basic cable network shows. Rutina Wesley and the late Nelsan Ellis' roles on HBO's True Blood were exceptions, not the rule. My point is that HBO's willingness to trust Jordan Peele to make Lovecraft Country and the mostly positive response to the first episode could lead to other, similar projects by other creators of color. As for Peele and Abrams' using Lovecraft's name to attract viewers, since they're neither the first nor the last to do so ( plus Lovecraft's being a racist asshole IRL), I don't care.

Believe it or not I do respect your take.  I am not as hard line as I might come across (Emotions or the way one feels about something is often more difficult to convey in text) and I do appreciate people taking the time to talk about things from their perspectives.  It often leads me to see what other people think which is never a bad thing.  We might not agree about certain things but that is okay.  The world would be a far duller place if we all agreed on everything.

 

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