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Fire Walk With Me

Lisin

By Lisin
in Twin Peaks [V]

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Bastet

Bastet

Amazon's pre-sale price for the Blu-Ray set is $90.99.  I wouldn't normally pay that for two seasons and a movie, but with the special features ... I'm in.

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Lisin

Lisin

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Plus since Amazon always gives you their lowest price if the price drops lower before the sale you're covered. (I don't work for Amazon, I just really love their service!) 

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Ronin Jackson

Ronin Jackson

The scene with Annie in the hospital obviously takes place after the end of the series.  I'm pretty sure Cooper asking "How can I leave" is too... All these years with the talk of deleted scenes from FWWM I never expected that there would be material post Black Lodge.  I can't wait!

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ShadowDenizen

ShadowDenizen

I own most everything media-related to Twin Peaks.

But I'm still in for this offer!

And I'm stupidly curious about what new extras/deleted scenes there are. (I think FWWM is a vastly underrated movie that added a TON of insight into the TP mythology!!)

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alynch

alynch

For anyone who's curious, this four part article, using the shooting script along with interviews with various actors as sources, is a pretty exhaustive cataloging of the film's deleted scenes. It should probably be noted that the stuff taking place after the series finale are relatively minimal, and seem to have been there primarily to set up future film installments that didn't happen.

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Ryan Chamberlain

Ryan Chamberlain

I just watched it for the first time last weekend. Been watching the series since 2014. But, finally decided with the reboot coming I needed no...had to see FWWM.

My mom watched it with me because she's also a fan. And, she liked it more than I did. I personally found the nude scenes a little too much for my taste...I mean, it was really porn-y. Other than that. I did like it. It scared the crap out of me towards the end because I thought

Spoiler

Leland was gonna kill Laura during the car scene..He was acting so insane there

So, when she did finally get axed. I was like...whoa. Expected it sooner.

Also...She was such a coke fiend. Even more than she was made out to be in the series (with people saying she was on it) So much blow. Damn Laura. Liked the nose candy, didn't ya!?

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Moxie Cat

Moxie Cat

(edited)

Thanks to Showtime, I've seen the movie way more than any given episode, so I'm glad it will play a role in the new series. Looking forward to more explanation about all the FBI guys and their involvement with the Black Lodge, especially Chris Isaak and David Bowie.

I will admit that the finale and FWWM scared the crap out of me as a teenager. Thankfully, that has diminished on rewatches!

Also, watching the pilot (as I did tonight as Showtime embarked upon their marathon) is much more interesting with the movie as a prequel.

Edited by Moxie Cat
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Shorty186

Shorty186

Wait ... Bobby Briggs killed someone? Why would they have him do that and then never be effected by it in the series? I mean there's a lot in the movie that doesn't make sense for the same reason, but that stands out.

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Guest

Guest

I recently rewatched and enjoyed it way more than when I saw it in the theater. I think that's mainly because I went in expecting the film to wrap up the series and when it didn't, I immediately hated it. 

I also couldn't get over Moira Kelly in LFB's role. 

Time is, indeed, a healer. 

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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

(edited)
On 5/21/2017 at 8:13 PM, Shorty186 said:

Wait ... Bobby Briggs killed someone? Why would they have him do that and then never be effected by it in the series? I mean there's a lot in the movie that doesn't make sense for the same reason, but that stands out.

It was a drug deal gone bad and part of a world he'd been immersed in for a while so it was a natural progression. 

Bobby was a real mess in the early episodes so I just headcanon that the murder and Laura's death were all blurred together as the reasons why. 

Edited by Pete Martell
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peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

(edited)

I finally got around to watching this. It really was so dark, which as @ShadowHunter said it had to be, but it was a bit much for me. The original series (and the new series) had a lot of dumb shit and funny stuff that sorta hid the real darkness and the movie didn't really have any of that. And I wasn't a fan of all the nudity. Also, I didn't understand anything, but I never do with this show!

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I finally got around to watching this. It really was so dark, which as @ShadowHunter said it had to be, but it was a bit much for me. The original series (and the new series) had a lot of dumb shit and funny stuff that sorta hid the real darkness and the movie didn't really have any of that. And I wasn't a fan of all the nudity. Also, I didn't understand anything, but I never do with this show!

They seemed to take most of the comedy out, although I did laugh at the scene where Bobby was walking backwards and trying to look cool as the "hip" soundtrack that reminded me of something you'd see on a soap of that era doing a story about "down with it" teens. I never knew if Lynch was spoofing the Bobby and teenagers-in-film mystique or if it just worked out that way. Of course that whole bit was Bobby in a nutshell - part desperately trying to be cool, part genuinely cool, and all a bit sad. 

I also laughed at some of the Deer Meadows scenes, mainly when Chet Desmond got violent with the "bad" version of Andy. Kiefer Sutherland said he wished he'd played his role quirker, which would have added more comedy I imagine, but I'm glad he didn't. 

(this movie is probably a high water mark for me with Kiefer, as 24 turned my stomach and most of his film roles do little for me...he's oddly adorable in this movie and he works very well with Chris Isaak, who looks hot as hell in the G-man getup and fills Kyle Maclachlan's boots better than I would have expected before watching this) 

There are other scenes that are so absurd you almost want to laugh, like the "turkey in the corn" scene with Laura and James, but they mostly just make me uneasy. It took a while before I realized that scene was likely about the Black Lodge and gorbulza or whatever it's called, rather than Laura just being high as a kite. 

For some reason the movie made much less sense to me the first time or two than it did on rewatch after the new show. 

One of the things that I always wonder was deliberate on Lynch's part (I doubt it as he was planning more films) was whether he intended the film to tether Laura's abuse and her relationship with Leland more closely to the everyday horror in a way the show mostly left vaguer in favor of Leland and Laura just being objects of Bob (or in Laura's case, of the town, the Renaults, Bob, etc.). There are several scenes in the film that are the textbook examples of the hyper-reality that sums up the best of Twin Peaks to me and are very, very difficult for me to watch - Bob Leland berating Laura at the dinner table as Sarah pleads with him to stop, the real Leland apologizing to Laura later that night as she looks on in horror, and the moment where she finally starts to fully process that Leland = Bob and that her father is her abuser, and she collapses on the lawn, saying it can't be true, it can't be true. The last one especially hurts. 

It's still a travesty to me that Sheryl and Ray Wise got nothing for their work in this film. Sheryl gives one of the best performances I've ever seen in this type of film. I don't think people understood at the time just how hard it must have been to play Laura, a character who is simultaneously a complete fantasy and horrifyingly real - even now I sometimes how many do.

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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)
30 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

They seemed to take most of the comedy out, although I did laugh at the scene where Bobby was walking backwards and trying to look cool as the "hip" soundtrack that reminded me of something you'd see on a soap of that era doing a story about "down with it" teens. I never knew if Lynch was spoofing the Bobby and teenagers-in-film mystique or if it just worked out that way.

He definitely planned it. You can see a bunch of other kids in the background weaving and bobbing around too, as directed. It was designed for the music (which he wrote). That's one of my favorite bits.

I think Kiefer is pretty quirky in the movie as is, and playing very against his usual types both then and now. I agree I'm glad he didn't take it further. I do wish he'd appear as Sam today - that would be a real splash of cold water vs. his usual roles (a la Duchovny recurring as Denise), and he's more than capable of it.

What intrigues me about Isaak/Desmond is that he's both a good investigator and kind of a dick - the anti-Cooper in some ways. He resorts to physically dominating and humiliating the Sheriff in the great deleted scene in the Missing Pieces, which I don't think Cooper would have done, and he chooses to let Sam spill coffee on himself at the diner for laughs. I don't think the film renders a judgment on Desmond per se but it does present him as a kind of gray hero at best, and I think it implicitly suggests he is thus easy prey for the Black Lodge by being a more typical G-Man.

Quote

There are other scenes that are so absurd you almost want to laugh, like the "turkey in the corn" scene with Laura and James, but they mostly just make me uneasy. It took a while before I realized that scene was likely about the Black Lodge and gorbulza or whatever it's called, rather than Laura just being high as a kite.

I actually think that linkage is a coincidence. I think it's mostly an absurdist turn of phrase deliberately put into a very melancholy scene.

Lynch making the Palmer story more real and visceral was definitely his intention. I think most critics agree Lynch didn't like that the show glossed over Leland's complicity for the sake of network TV narrative, and wanted to hit those notes very hard to make it 100% clear it was not "just BOB". The movie is a story of domestic violence and incest and one girl's struggle (and ultimately salvation, which is why I was so okay with FWWM being the end of the series for years) - that is its mission statement, first and foremost. It doesn't make any bones. Anything mythos-wise that is not relevant outside the prologue is cut. And even with the mythology framework expanded, that central story is still relevant.

Edited by jsbt
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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

I think Kiefer is pretty quirky in the movie as is, and playing very against his usual types both then and now. I agree I'm glad he didn't take it further. I do wish he'd appear as Sam today - that would be a real splash of cold water vs. his usual roles (a la Duchovny recurring as Denise), and he's more than capable of it.

What intrigues me about Isaak/Desmond is that he's both a good investigator and kind of a dick - the anti-Cooper in some ways. He resorts to physically dominating and humiliating the Sheriff in the great deleted scene in the Missing Pieces, which I don't think Cooper would have done, and he chooses to let Sam spill coffee on himself at the diner for laughs. I don't think the film renders a judgment on Desmond per se but it does present him as a kind of gray hero at best, and I think it implicitly suggests he is thus easy prey for the Black Lodge by being a more typical G-Man.

I know some speculated he might be in the show as he tweeted and then deleted that he had projects in 2017, but I guess it isn't likely.

The scene with Sam and Chet in the diner was one I watched a few times as it felt oddly...flirtatious to me on Chet's part, but obviously that wasn't the intention. I guess it was just supposed to be showing he was an alpha male.

I guess maybe Chet and Sam were supposed to be an inverse of Dale and Albert (early Albert, anyway). 

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jsbt

jsbt

In other news, it's looking highly likely that the Criterion Collection will be releasing FWWM on Blu-Ray soon. This is surprising as it was restored with new extras (and the Missing Pieces) for the Entire Mystery Blu-Ray set just three years ago. Makes me wonder what Lynch has in mind for the new disc.

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Ronin Jackson

Ronin Jackson

I'm curious how many fans are watching the new series only having watched the old series but not FWWM? I wonder if that's part of the problem with some of the vitriolic reaction of a portion of the fan base (seems bigger here than elsewhere). IMO so far FWWM has factored more heavily into the new series than almost the entire original series has. Certainly if you take out the final episode of season 2 that's the case. The evolution of The Arm, the ring, Philip Jeffries, Blue Rose... all these things come directly from FWWM. It's without question essential viewing to at least begin to understand what's happening in the new series. 

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Nashville

Nashville

6 hours ago, Ronin Jackson said:

I'm curious how many fans are watching the new series only having watched the old series but not FWWM? I wonder if that's part of the problem with some of the vitriolic reaction of a portion of the fan base (seems bigger here than elsewhere). IMO so far FWWM has factored more heavily into the new series than almost the entire original series has. Certainly if you take out the final episode of season 2 that's the case. The evolution of The Arm, the ring, Philip Jeffries, Blue Rose... all these things come directly from FWWM. It's without question essential viewing to at least begin to understand what's happening in the new series. 

I've watched it all, and I'm watching it all - and unlike (apparently) many others here, I am in no way disappointed.

A bit of fair warning for anyone not familiar with Lynch's true directorial style (which was submerged quite a bit in the original series): do not expect plot/details/storylines to follow a traditional linear progression.  If that's a necessity for your viewing pleasure, expect to be mightily disappointed - and confused.  ;>

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dosodog

dosodog

I've seen it all.  I'm not disappointed.  The Return has all the WTF did I just see, that this girl could want!

 However, I was missing some of the fun quirkiness and levity of the tv series.  For me, it's important for my comfort level to balance the horror with small moments of sweetness, fun and simple acts of human kindness and bonding.

Not that I think Mr. Lynch should base his storytelling on my comfort level.  I am okay if The Return isn't what once was.  Lynch and Twin Peaks push my imagination in ways I didn't think possible.  That's what makes this such a damn fine show for me.

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peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

(edited)
14 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

(this movie is probably a high water mark for me with Kiefer, as 24 turned my stomach and most of his film roles do little for me...he's oddly adorable in this movie and he works very well with Chris Isaak, who looks hot as hell in the G-man getup and fills Kyle Maclachlan's boots better than I would have expected before watching this) 

1

I don't think I've ever actually seen Keifer Sutherland in anything else. I loved him in this. Oddly adorable is the perfect was to describe him. I liked Chris Isaak a lot, too.

Quote

It's still a travesty to me that Sheryl and Ray Wise got nothing for their work in this film. Sheryl gives one of the best performances I've ever seen in this type of film.

 

I completely agree. Sheryl Lee was a bit of a revelation in this imo. Amazing work.

10 hours ago, Ronin Jackson said:

The evolution of The Arm, the ring, Philip Jeffries, Blue Rose... all these things come directly from FWWM. 

 

Watching the movie really helped me with the ring and The Arm, but I still don't understand Blue Rose. I admittedly don't pay super close attention to things though. But also I just don't get a lot of it. I'm not that smart!

When I think back on the movie I like it a lot more than I thought I did as I was watching it if that makes sense.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

42 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Watching the movie really helped me with the ring and The Arm, but I still don't understand Blue Rose. I admittedly don't pay super close attention to things though. But also I just don't get a lot of it. I'm not that smart!

Blue Rose is a specific type of case. Early in the film they say the Teresa Banks murder is that type of case - Lil, the woman Gordon shows to Sam and Chet and she's wearing a blue rose and making sour faces. They won't ever say what it actually means, but I assume it means young women who die mysteriously. 

There's a deleted scene of Leland calling Teresa for a meeting, only for him to back out. We see the bit in the film where Leland sees Ronette Pulaski and Laura on a hotel room bed, but it's made more explicit in the deleted scenes that he left for that reason. She gets onto the bed with Ronette and Laura and says it's just us girls, and there's some wink-wink about what's going to happen (it's interesting that he chose not to make this moment more explicitly sexual even as he did with Laura in other parts of the film). Laura sees Teresa's ring and an orange haze comes over her. Later, Teresa calls Jacques Renault and asks about Ronette's and Laura's fathers as she realizes that may be why he backed out. She then calls Leland and we don't see the rest. 

I'm actually glad Lynch cut this as I prefer the reasons for Bob/Leland killing her to be more of a mystery, or about building up to Bob being able to force Leland to go that far with Laura (such heavy violence and ultimately murder). It does build up the story of the ring though. 

Some of the deleted scenes are much closer to the new style of Twin Peaks and of Lynch's later films than most of what is in the film - some of it, like the ghoulish closeups of the creature in the convenience store, far more than I'd realized he was doing at that time. 

It's good to be able to talk more about the movie, anyway. I saw some podcast called "It's OK to Not Like Fire Walk With Me" and I laughed out loud, as I'm always pleasantly surprised to find more people who do like it. Just last week I saw some thing that to me seemed to be implying it was terrible to have any appreciation of the movie because of the abuse element. It bothered me enough to where I just kept quiet, because of the ignorance in not realizing the handling of that element is one of the reasons I and others are so attached to the film in the first place. Not for some kick or thrill.

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jsbt

jsbt

It's worth noting that Lynch personally remastered and reedited all the deleted scenes in the Missing Pieces himself in the 2010s, probably not long after he and Frost secretly began working on the new show. I think that may account for the lack of music in most of them, and it may possibly account for some of the pace or different angles/perspective in the convenience store scene. I agree the extreme close-ups of the Jumping Man

(who may recur in the new show - the actor is back)

are unlike anything he was doing at the time.

I do think Leland killed Teresa because he was being blackmailed, but I agree it is deliberately murky. FWWM has Lynch making Leland much more culpable in his crimes and it keeps the lines blurred re: how much of killing Teresa was real-world necessity for Leland vs. BOB's lust for killing.

I always assumed Blue Rose cases were weird and unexplained/possibly supernatural cases, a la The X-Files (this pre-dated that). I intimated a connection with Major Briggs and Windom Earle's similar supernatural explorations as part of Project: Bluebook which made them aware of the Black Lodge and the spirits in the woods, although the name may be a coincidence.

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Ronin Jackson

Ronin Jackson

Blue Rose is a specific type of classified FBI case that hasn't been totally explained yet. I don't think it has to do with the victims. Sam Stanley was investigating the murder of Teresa Banks but he didn't have clearance to know about the Blue Rose. He also thought Chet Desmond was going back to the Fat Trout trailer park for the Blue Rose. Chet Desmond found The Ring and disappeared. Perhaps Blue Rose and The Ring are connected.

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Nashville

Nashville

8 hours ago, Ronin Jackson said:

Blue Rose is a specific type of classified FBI case that hasn't been totally explained yet. I don't think it has to do with the victims. Sam Stanley was investigating the murder of Teresa Banks but he didn't have clearance to know about the Blue Rose. He also thought Chet Desmond was going back to the Fat Trout trailer park for the Blue Rose. Chet Desmond found The Ring and disappeared. Perhaps Blue Rose and The Ring are connected.

My personal impressions over the years:

  • The FBI knew they had some kind of seriously twisted serial killer(s) on their hands actively working (although not necessarily limited to) the Pacific Northwest region.
  • We don't necessarily know ALL the FBI's criteria for associating cases with this particular offender, beyond the letters under the fingernails; Teresa Banks was definitely an associated victim, though, as was Laura Palmer.
  • Blue Rose was (and continues to be) the FBI code name for such associated cases, which may encompass far more cases and types of crime than solely the serial killer victims.
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jsbt

jsbt

Tangential note: Criterion is soon releasing the (apparently very good) new Lynch doc, The Art Life. I wonder if that was the extent of their recent "fire walk with me" tease, or if the rumors about their also putting out a new edition of FWWM are true. I can't imagine what it could have after the Entire Mystery release - unless Lynch has even more deleted scenes to unveil. To my knowledge, everything that was in the final shooting script that got deleted from the final cut was then put into The Missing Pieces, but there was a lot of other stuff before that that got written, and some may have been filmed or not.

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PatternRec

PatternRec

On 6/1/2017 at 5:02 PM, Pete Martell said:

(this movie is probably a high water mark for me with Kiefer, as 24 turned my stomach and most of his film roles do little for me...he's oddly adorable in this movie and he works very well with Chris Isaak, who looks hot as hell in the G-man getup and fills Kyle Maclachlan's boots better than I would have expected before watching this) 

 

Sutherland went through a short stint where it looked like he was gonna try to do more character roles than leading man. I think Dark City was around the time as FWWM and he's a bit quirky in that one as well. 

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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

55 minutes ago, PatternRec said:

Sutherland went through a short stint where it looked like he was gonna try to do more character roles than leading man. I think Dark City was around the time as FWWM and he's a bit quirky in that one as well. 

He mentioned in an interview that he was in a rough time in his life when he did the movie so he appreciated it. And that looking back he should have played it quirkier (I'm glad he didn't - I thought it was already quirky enough). 

I wish we could see the character again, although

that Secret History book says he became an alcoholic and had a nervous breakdown, resulting in his permanently leaving government, so I guess even if we did it wouldn't be a happy occasion.

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Guest

Guest

I was rematching some of this this morning, and noticed 

Spoiler

that it was 4:30 when they started Teresa Bank's autopsy.

(spoiled in case anyone hasn't seen episode 1)

I still hope they tell us who Judy is.

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Guest

Guest

Watched this again this morning (obviously I can't stop watching it ... it's like mind crack). I guess Teresa Banks was a Blue Rose case? If true, then Teresa Banks has a doppleganger somewhere, right? 

I feel bad for Chet Desmond -- gone and completely forgotten. 

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Affogato

Affogato

6 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Watched this again this morning (obviously I can't stop watching it ... it's like mind crack). I guess Teresa Banks was a Blue Rose case? If true, then Teresa Banks has a doppleganger somewhere, right? 

I feel bad for Chet Desmond -- gone and completely forgotten. 

I really want law enforcement to communicate via fashion cues. Love Lil.

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