Moonlighting - General Discussion

[baileythedog]

On 3/20/2023 at 4:07 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

It was so interesting to see the two actors play David Addison. The first actor was competent but not special. Bruce Willis was special - he had the charisma and attitude.

Competent bordering on hostile. 

You could tell BW understood that character inside and out at its earliest stages  and, more importantly, understood what he could bring to the role. 

There aren't too many examples of someone being born for a role that then goes on to have a stunningly successful multi-decade career. 

[JAYJAY1979]

I hated all the relationship focus in season 4.  I think Maddie and David could have still kept up the bickering and sleuthing as a couple..it would have raised the stakes with them separating their personal and professional duties.

And I admit I loved Dispesto focused episodes.  It was usually once a season.  North by North Dipesto was my fav of those episodes.  She was craving a change in her routine and ends up in a government cover up gone awry...and it ends with her glad to be back in the office answering phones.

[DanaK]

Moonlighting finally coming to streaming, next month on Hulu, starting October 10

https://www.vulture.com/2023/09/moonlighting-bruce-willis-hulu-release-date.html

https://deadline.com/2023/09/moonlighting-episodes-streaming-hulu-october-1235556017/

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by DanaK

[whiporee]

Just two weeks! 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, DanaK said:

Moonlighting finally coming to streaming, next month on Hulu, starting October 10

https://www.vulture.com/2023/09/moonlighting-bruce-willis-hulu-release-date.html

https://deadline.com/2023/09/moonlighting-episodes-streaming-hulu-october-1235556017/

 

Never thought the day would come! (Though I will probably still only watch through Season 3. The rest was bad. Yes, bad.)

[Bastet]

35 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

(Though I will probably still only watch through Season 3. The rest was bad. Yes, bad.)

I have seasons one through four on DVD, but season four is still shrink-wrapped.  Season five I knew not to even bother buying, but I bought season four thinking I'd re-watch the select moments I like.  Nope, never did.

[Bastet]

As expected, these streaming episodes won't include all the original music, but apparently more than was originally feared:

Quote

TVLine has confirmed with sources that “great care” was given to preserving the tone and style of the series, while limiting the number of replacement songs. Specifically, we hear that all of the songs sung on-screen by Shepherd, Willis and the supporting cast are intact in the remastered version of the series. And while many of the other songs that are “critical” to storylines also remain, “ambiance music” in supper club, cocktail party and bar scenes has been swapped out.

But the person in charge of the remastering apparently posted on a fan forum that they did correct the glaring DVD issues: they’ve restored the correct score for "Lady in the Iron Mask" and the cold open/teasers that were missing from three of the season four/five episodes.

[BetterButter]

Moonlighting Creator On The Show's Streaming Debut And Why It's Been MIA For So Many Years [Exclusive Interview]

[whiporee]

Watched the pilot a few minutes ago. First time in 37 years. 

Every bit as good as I remembered.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, whiporee said:

Watched the pilot a few minutes ago. First time in 37 years. 

Every bit as good as I remembered.

If you want to be technical, it's actually 38 years [it debuted March 3, 1985 - yikes!]. But I agree. It still holds up.

(God, so I was just 12 and a half when this began? I know I was getting old, but damn!)

[AgathaC]

23 hours ago, whiporee said:

Watched the pilot a few minutes ago. First time in 37 years. 

Every bit as good as I remembered.

I just watched it, too! Man, I love the pilot. I was very young when it first aired, but I have a distinct memory of watching it with my aunt and giggling almost nonstop — particularly at David Addison. My aunt actually teased me, saying it looked like I had a crush (I did, but denied it because boys were grody).

I didn’t see the rest of the series until syndication in my teen years. It’s one of those shows where I can watch select scenes and episodes, but the implosion is too much for me to feel like rewatching the whole show. But I will always adore the pilot.

[whiporee]

Watching episode 2. Opening features Jonathan Winters and Tim Robbins. 

[whiporee]

Three episodes in, and it's pretty much like I remember. 

It's often silly. Too silly in some cases. The cases and their resolutions don't make sense. David's frat-guy sexism is often over the top by contemporary standards. Too many parts of it don't match today to even really recommend it to my daughter, because she'd never get past the silliness or actual sexual banter. 

But each episode I've watch has moments of pure brilliance. Poignancy as tangible as anything currently on. And the chemistry between the two, which I did not pick up on nearly as much when I was younger, is truly something to see. That Bruce had never really acted before is remarkable, even if he oversells a lot of lines, because there's nothing oversold in the little moments between he and Cybil.

As I'm watching, I realize this is sort of the perfect show for the mid-to-late 80s. Kind of excessive. Kinda dumb. Kinda hot. 

Kinda magnificent.

[Bastet]

Yikes, lots of replacement music.  I've only skimmed so far, but losing the two songs from "The Man Who Cried Wife" is an absolute crime, as is doing the post office caper in "Yours, Very Deadly" without "Please, Mr. Postman" as the soundtrack!

I was so sure that bar in "Sleep Talkin' Guy" that only plays "West End Girls" was going to have some generic pop instead, so I'm glad that's still in, but, damn, there are some disappointments jumping out at me just from skimming.  I know it was inevitable, though, just the way of the world when you're having to re-license music because old contracts obviously didn't cover distribution methods that didn't exist at the time, and my skim indicates they ponied up for all the most important stuff.

But I'm sure glad I have my DVDs.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Bastet

[baileythedog]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:08 PM, Bastet said:

Yikes, lots of replacement music.  I've only skimmed so far, but losing the two songs from "The Man Who Cried Wife" is an absolute crime, as is doing the post office caper in "Yours, Very Deadly" without "Please, Mr. Postman" as the soundtrack!

I was so sure that bar in "Sleep Talkin' Guy" that only plays "West End Girls" was going to have some generic pop instead, so I'm glad that's still in, but, damn, there are some disappointments jumping out at me just from skimming.  I know it was inevitable, though, just the way of the world when you're having to re-license music because old contracts obviously didn't cover distribution methods that didn't exist at the time, and my skim indicates they ponied up for all the most important stuff.

But I'm sure glad I have my DVDs.

I noticed that the Isley Brother's "This Old Heart of Mine" did not make it into "Knowing Her" which broke my heart a bit since Moonlighting was where I was first introduced to the Isley Brothers.  Loved that song and it worked so perfectly there.   Also, maybe no surprise that the Rolling Stones "You Can't Always Get What You Want" wasn't gettable. 

Agreed that I'm glad I bought the DVDs when they came out.  But still -- I'm very happy this landed on Hulu.  I've turned on many of my younger friends to watching it and they're loving it. 

[Egg McMuffin]

I also first discovered the Isley Brothers through Moonlighting. Super disappointed that the song is gone.

The pilot is wonderful. It’s feature film quality in many ways.

I don’t think this is a show you can binge watch. It’s better to savor that wonderful dialogue one episode at a time.

It’s just amazing to me watching an inexperienced Bruce Willis coming in and just owning that role from the first episode.

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I don’t think this is a show you can binge watch. It’s better to savor that wonderful dialogue one episode at a time.

I'll be getting together with friends once a week to watch, and we're going to do two episodes at a time.  We all practically know the first three seasons by heart, but it's also been a while since any of us did a full re-watch*, instead just watching favorite episodes over and over.

*Well, of seasons one through three.  Only two people in the group will re-watch four and five.  I never even bought the season five DVD and I'm pretty sure my season four is still shrink-wrapped.

[whiporee]

Halfway through season 2. Season opened with a fourth wall break, and then nothing but bangers. It's easy for forget Charles Rocket was once a thing. The Dream Sequence Always Rings Twice was just great, from the Orson Wells intro to Cybil's singing on both songs.

The one thing that I had misremembered was that Mattie and David liked each other almost from the start. It's not just a forced together thing -- they smile. They aren't in love yet but this isn't a "they hate each other but really ..." kind of show.  There's affection almost from Episode One on. 

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, whiporee said:

It's easy for forget Charles Rocket was once a thing.

Sad how he died the way he did. Seemed like a tortured soul.

[Bastet]

14 minutes ago, whiporee said:

It's easy for forget Charles Rocket was once a thing.

I adore him as Richard Addison.

David: "You're a dead man."
Richard: [checks pulse] "Beg to differ with you, Bro."

As bit of trivia, he and Cybill Shepherd reunited on what wound up being the final two episodes of Cybill -- and his character's name was Charlie Addison.

 

[Bastet]

Hmm.  I finally gathered with friends this weekend to re-watch the pilot, and, while we did not pop the DVD in afterward to directly compare, we were not at all impressed with the visual quality of remastering to HD versus what we're used to (since, by this point, we had long been watching the DVDs on Blu-Ray players, which upconvert) -- and I don't see what the point of watching these music-deficient versions is (no replacement music in the pilot, but I know there is plenty to come) in that case.  We'll carry on for a while, though.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Bastet

[Yogisbooboo64]

On 10/13/2023 at 11:50 PM, baileythedog said:

On 10/12/2023 at 5:08 PM, Bastet said:

Yikes, lots of replacement music. 

I noticed that the Isley Brother's "This Old Heart of Mine" did not make it into "Knowing Her" which broke my heart a bit since Moonlighting was where I was first introduced to the Isley Brothers.  Loved that song and it worked so perfectly there.

NO WAY!!  Y'know, I was soooo pissed to see that Moonlighting was going to Hulu, a streaming channel I don't have....but now to read that songs are being replaced?  Jesus, what are they going to put in place of 'Be My Baby' in the Big Bang eppy?!

I wish the show had been sent to HBO Max instead.  Now that I think of it, with BW's current diagnosis I think I'd be too sad to watch it anyway.

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

Jesus, what are they going to put in place of 'Be My Baby' in the Big Bang eppy?!

That's still there.

[Yogisbooboo64]

Well there's a shocker!  'This Old Heart of Mine' in Knowing Her is what got me turned onto BW in the first place.

[baileythedog]

On 11/9/2023 at 2:00 PM, Yogisbooboo64 said:

NO WAY!!  Y'know, I was soooo pissed to see that Moonlighting was going to Hulu, a streaming channel I don't have....but now to read that songs are being replaced?  Jesus, what are they going to put in place of 'Be My Baby' in the Big Bang eppy?!

I wish the show had been sent to HBO Max instead.  Now that I think of it, with BW's current diagnosis I think I'd be too sad to watch it anyway.

Yes, it's frustrating but music rights are incredibly expensive and no one thought that far ahead to a digital future when the show was first made.  It wouldn't matter what platform the show went to, there would still likely be a great deal of music replacements.

Having said that, a lot of music DID get licensed to remain in the show, including perhaps most importantly, "Be My Baby."

[NDW5332]

On 5/15/2014 at 2:02 PM, Bastet said:

indeed, thanks to Bruce's filming schedule delaying production

Just rewatched "cool-hand Dave" and I swear in some shots it looks like he came straight from the set of Die Hard and didn't bother washing that makeup off.

[baileythedog]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:23 AM, NDW5332 said:

Just rewatched "cool-hand Dave" and I swear in some shots it looks like he came straight from the set of Die Hard and didn't bother washing that makeup off.

There is some ep in S5 where David Addison is out on a date and they're in front of advertising poster for Die Hard.  :-) 

I enjoyed seeing Cool Hand Dave pt. 2 -- where they're looking for a new David Addison-- and front of the line for try outs is none other than Michael Garibaldi from Babylon 5.  (Actor Jerry Doyle who approaches his role on B5 as a poor man's David Addison, for sure.)

[Bastet]

2 minutes ago, baileythedog said:

There is some ep in S5 where David Addison is out on a date and they're in front of advertising poster for Die Hard.  :-) 

"When Girls Collide" with the awful cousin Annie (yes, played by the great Virginia Madsen; I don't care, I hate Annie).  That's also the one where Demi Moore is in the elevator.

[kirkola]

On 11/17/2023 at 8:01 PM, baileythedog said:

There is some ep in S5 where David Addison is out on a date and they're in front of advertising poster for Die Hard.  :-) 

I enjoyed seeing Cool Hand Dave pt. 2 -- where they're looking for a new David Addison-- and front of the line for try outs is none other than Michael Garibaldi from Babylon 5.  (Actor Jerry Doyle who approaches his role on B5 as a poor man's David Addison, for sure.)

I did a double take.  Doyle has always looked and sounded like Willis.   

I am watching the series for the first time...so all the way through.  Am almost done with season 5.  And I can say I am glad I ignored it when I was a kid. (I was 10 when it started & hated Addison's casual sexism even though I didn't quite get it. I just knew it was awful!!)

On the other hand, as a full fledged adult, I can see the charm of the series.  And other than a few episodes, I don't exactly hate seasons 4 & 5.  I am disappointed with how Hayes is written, but I do understand their predicament.  I sort of wish they had kept the kid storyline, because these two "detectives" trying to solve cases around a baby or toddler schedule would be funny.  And plenty of arguments about parenting choices. But I am determined to finish Season 5 & will probably rewatch the whole thing again when I need a pick-me-up. Just never again will I watch season 5, episode 1 again.  That one was the worst!!!!

 

[kirkola]

Okay, have finished the series.

On the whole, I liked it alot.  But I suspect it helps to have not seen it live.  It was a great show to binge, and knowing about alot of the behind-the-scenes shenanigans helped keep expectations reasonable.  There are certainly episodes I will never watching again.  But I will revisit this from time to time when I need a dose of laughter and romance.

This is not to say that I don't think they made a lot of missteps along the way.  I still think it would have worked with a baby. I wasn't satisfied with David and cousin Annie.  It felt out of character.  Of course, I felt Maddie running to Chicago in season 4 to be out of character. In both cases, it was clear the writers needed to solve a problem, but there were better ways to handle it.  Make one of Maddie's parents sick or have Maddie break a leg.  

But again, I really liked this series. Even if it was occasionally clunky.

[Bastet]

8 hours ago, kirkola said:

But I suspect it helps to have not seen it live.

It was definitely a frustrating experience!  We'd wait and wait for a new episode, and then we'd get a clip show, or an Agnes episode.  And then the character assassination of Maddie in season four.  Ugh.  I will forever treasure the first two seasons and much of the third.  The rest is an unholy mess with a few good moments.

(Not to mention the enduring frustration that Glenn's inability to write the characters with anything resembling consistency or a lick of common sense in season four led to a TV "rule" that putting characters together ruins the show.  No, bad writing ruins a show.  It was a particularly ridiculous notion then, when it was already widely known there were also backstage issues significantly affecting production, so that it persists to this day when we know even more is infuriating.)

[Egg McMuffin]

I will never watch season 4 again. Walter Bishop - ugh. I agree with the idea of Maddie having to stay home on bed rest - due to a broken leg, pregnancy, whatever. They could even have had temps come in to help out. But the drama of her running away and then marrying a stranger ruined the show. 

[baileythedog]

On 11/20/2023 at 11:16 AM, kirkola said:

I did a double take.  Doyle has always looked and sounded like Willis.   

I am watching the series for the first time...so all the way through.  Am almost done with season 5.  And I can say I am glad I ignored it when I was a kid. (I was 10 when it started & hated Addison's casual sexism even though I didn't quite get it. I just knew it was awful!!)

On the other hand, as a full fledged adult, I can see the charm of the series.  And other than a few episodes, I don't exactly hate seasons 4 & 5.  I am disappointed with how Hayes is written, but I do understand their predicament.  I sort of wish they had kept the kid storyline, because these two "detectives" trying to solve cases around a baby or toddler schedule would be funny.  And plenty of arguments about parenting choices. But I am determined to finish Season 5 & will probably rewatch the whole thing again when I need a pick-me-up. Just never again will I watch season 5, episode 1 again.  That one was the worst!!!!

 

It's not every show that can turn a miscarriage into a musical, so I kind of give them props for that!  

[baileythedog]

On 11/24/2023 at 2:03 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I will never watch season 4 again. Walter Bishop - ugh. I agree with the idea of Maddie having to stay home on bed rest - due to a broken leg, pregnancy, whatever. They could even have had temps come in to help out. But the drama of her running away and then marrying a stranger ruined the show. 

Curiously, Dennis Dugan (the actor that played Walter Bishop) auditioned several times for the role of David Addison.  (He may have even been the network's preferred choice before GCC convinced them to gamble on Bruce Willis.)

He directed several Moonlighting episodes, including the series finale where he also played the "Sy" network mogul character at the end of the episode. 

The production seemed to really like that guy though it is too bad they saddled him with the thankless Walter Bishop character.  

I did not enjoy the Walter Bishop marriage --- although his character contrast to David Addison made for some good laughs.  It was an odd way of showing that Maddie could, after all, do something spontaneous, even if it was wildly stupid. 

Part of me wonders if the writers weren't just punishing Maddie as a character at that point because Cybil Shepherd was such a pill to work with. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by baileythedog

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, baileythedog said:

Curiously, Dennis Dugan (the actor that played Walter Bishop) auditioned several times for the role of David Addison.  (He may have even been the network's preferred choice before GCC convinced them to gamble on Bruce Willis.)

Actually, I posted a video a page or two back, with the auditions of Bruce Willis and an actor named Harley Venton. I think Venton was said network choice and the side-by-side auditions were Glenn Gordon Caron's way for pushing for Willis versus the network's choice.

I'm sure Dugan did audition many times! But considering the video extra, I'm inclined to think Venton was ABC's first pick...

Either way, Bruce Willis made David Addison. 

And I always stop watching after S3. Never have I seen a show go over the proverbial cliff so quickly.

[30 Helens]

I love love loved this show back in the day… well, at least in the beginning. I remember being so sad when it vanished, and giddy when it returned. And then terribly disappointed, because WTF was this? Certainly not the Dave and Maddie show I needed.

I have never rewatched any episodes until now, so don’t have any expectations other than my very vague memories. The pilot surprised me with its North By Northwest-style stuntwork— very ambitious for a TV show of its time. It is also nice to see Maddie taking the lead in the physical stuff: she was the one who climbed the clock face, and she figured out that climbing the drain pipe was the best move, while David was playing with his lasso. All in all, pretty progressive.

David was more of a misogynistic asshole than I remembered, but the charm has begun to balance that out in subsequent episodes. (I just finished S1 e3) My abiding affection for Bruce Willis began with this series, so it is hard to see him looking so young and vital without feeling sad about his current condition. I’m glad that he at least got to know that his work would find a new audience. https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/bruce-willis-not-verbal-dementia-moonlighting-creator-1235754040/

I’m rewatching with some trepidation, because I know at some point, this will go off the rails. But for now, it’s fantastic.

Edited November 30, 2023 by 30 Helens

[Bastet]

On 11/30/2023 at 6:08 AM, 30 Helens said:

The pilot surprised me with its North By Northwest-style stuntwork— very ambitious for a TV show of its time.

It not only came off very well at the time, it holds up perfectly today.  That's because it was all filmed on location, because its structure allowed for using the actors in almost all the shots:

Quote

“That clock appears on all four sides,” Caron said. “The one directly over the street has nothing under it, so it’s a sheer drop. But the other three have rooftops. So you now pick up two production advantages: One is you can follow the sun around all day. The other, obviously, is you can take people like Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd and put them up there, and while you’re still putting them in some degree of jeopardy, it’s not outrageous, malicious danger. You can build platforms and do all kinds of things.”

It still scared the shit out of Cybill, but she did it:
 

Quote

“I was terrified. I was completely and totally terrified,” Shepherd told IndieWire about filming the sequence. “I remember, in complete terror, grabbing the back of the director of photography’s leather jacket and saying, ‘I’m terrified, I can’t do this!’ And he took out his headphone from one side and said, ‘Excuse me, did you say something?’”

Shepherd went on to film the scene all six days “Moonlighting” spent at the top of the Eastern Columbia Building (out of 27 days of filming), although her hairdresser stoutly refused to make the trip to the top and her makeup artist passed her lipstick in a Kleenex box from his precarious perch. And with the exception of a stuntwoman scaling the wall of the building, that’s Shepherd you see in every shot.

And, to your comparison, Glenn thought of North by Northwest in planning it (his original plan was the Capitol Records building, but that wouldn't work):

Quote

“And then I thought, ‘Oh, I’m going to write this for the top of the Capitol Records building. And that was the original concept, and then we realized architecturally, it wouldn’t actually support people and things. Mind you, I hadn’t figured out how this would feed into the plot. It was sort of [Alfred Hitchcock saying], ‘Mount Rushmore. That’ll be the end of North by Northwest.’”

Here's the article about shooting that clock sequence, which also tells the origin story of "The Straight Poop" (the ultra-meta episode where Rona Barrett interviews Maddie and David about their problems):
 

Quote

In quintessential “Moonlighting” (and Caron) fashion, the episode was a stroke of genius at the last minute, “I was standing in a valet line one night, and I looked up ahead, and I saw this little, tiny woman who I realized was Rona Barrett. And Rona Barrett was as big as TMZ is today,” Caron said. “And the front of the National Enquirer every week was how Cybill hated Bruce and Bruce hated Cybill, and Cybill threw a chair at me, and you know, all that nonsense. So I went up to Rona Barrett. I introduced myself. I said, ‘Would you be interested in being on “Moonlighting”?’”

When Barrett said yes, Caron told her to be at the studio the next morning at 6 a.m. and they went on to film her interrogating Maddie and David basically live. Fitted with earwigs, Caron fed the actors lines. The resulting episode is a meta-commentary on not just the tumultuous relationship between Maddie and David but between Shepherd and Willis, making what might have been a Hail Mary into something much more memorable. “It wasn’t as if it was an idea that I had been walking around with for months, trying to figure out how to do it,” Caron said. It was literally born standing there on that line waiting to get my car because I knew we weren’t gonna have an episode.”

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Bastet

[Anela]

I didn't know this was on Hulu! I've just found it there. I watched this when I was a kid, and barely remember anything, except for the leads. 

[JAYJAY1979]

So I finally watched season 5, which I'd never done before.. always stopping with season 3.  I think if you watch the first 3 seasons then skip to season 5 episode 2... I think it would make the viewing of the show more enjoyable.

Overall season 5 seemed to be an improvement over season 4 with a return to the original concept of a case of the week with the Thin Man concept... but the magic was gone from the show because of all that went on on and off screen.

With that said, my fav season 5 episode was Plastic Fantastic Lovers... it came closest to the charm and energy of season 2 and 3.

[baileythedog]

6 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

So I finally watched season 5, which I'd never done before.. always stopping with season 3.  I think if you watch the first 3 seasons then skip to season 5 episode 2... I think it would make the viewing of the show more enjoyable.

Overall season 5 seemed to be an improvement over season 4 with a return to the original concept of a case of the week with the Thin Man concept... but the magic was gone from the show because of all that went on on and off screen.

With that said, my fav season 5 episode was Plastic Fantastic Lovers... it came closest to the charm and energy of season 2 and 3.

Correct on all comments here.

S5 really is not bad. It's just that S4 sunk it down into such a hole that being "substantially better than" was not enough to keep the show afloat. 

Edited March 11 by baileythedog

[Toonces464]

I've never understood people who say them getting together ruined the show. It didn't. Season 4 did (except Maddie Hayes Got Married, that episode was hilarious). Season 5 wasn't so bad, except the episodes with Annie. It was just all too out of character for David to take up with her. And when Maddie witnessed the murder and David wasn't there watching over her? Totally not David Addison.

Edited April 16 by Toonces464