S13.E17: The Thing

[AwesomO4000]

20 hours ago, millennium said:

As a native Rhode Islander I feel compelled to point out that the pallid seafood patties placed before Dean in the diner were NOT Rhode Island clam cakes.

These are clam cakes:

Ah, I wouldn't have guessed... to me those more look like fried whole clams (real ones, with the belly). Is there something else inside there besides clams?

I grew up in Massachusetts - (I know, I know: I'm a Masshole) -  but I don't remember ever having "clam cakes." Or at least not calling them that. We always ate our clams whole fried, steamed, bake stuffed, or as chowder. We relegated the "cakes" to crab. ; ) . And yes, I realize that this ignores the fact that stuffed clams (below) are pretty much moister versions of crab cakes using clam instead of crab and baked in a shell. Hee!

11 hours ago, millennium said:

You take a quahog (a big, hard-shelled clam), scoop out the meat of the clam, chop it up, mix in bread crumbs, herbs, onions, etc., then put it back in the shell and bake it.  And eat it.  Ugh.

Oh, no, they are delicious! But you forgot a step: you steam the quahogs first. Then you take the clam meat out and grind / mince it up with the bread crumbs (or Ritz crackers), herbs, onions, and such.. some butter too, and dusted with Parmesan cheese. Because yeah, chopping up raw clam meat doesn't sound too appetizing.

And yes, Dean would have liked dynamites (though after looking briefly at the recipe, we called those sloppy joes growing up - and apologies if there is something I'm missing that makes them not sloppy joes. I admit that I skimmed the recipe.)

And stuffed clams seem more of a Sam type food to me. I would imagine Dean eating them and then asking "What the heck did I just eat?" Heh.

[millennium]

2 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Ah, I wouldn't have guessed... to me those more look like fried whole clams (real ones, with the belly). Is there something else inside there besides clams?

I grew up in Massachusetts - (I know, I know: I'm a Masshole) -  but I don't remember ever having "clam cakes." Or at least not calling them that. We always ate our clams whole fried, steamed, bake stuffed, or as chowder. We relegated the "cakes" to crab. ; ) . And yes, I realize that this ignores the fact that stuffed clams (below) are pretty much moister versions of crab cakes using clam instead of crab and baked in a shell. Hee!

Oh, no, they are delicious! But you forgot a step: you steam the quahogs first. Then you take the clam meat out and grind / mince it up with the bread crumbs (or Ritz crackers), herbs, onions, and such.. some butter too, and dusted with Parmesan cheese. Because yeah, chopping up raw clam meat doesn't sound too appetizing.

And yes, Dean would have liked dynamites (though after looking briefly at the recipe, we called those sloppy joes growing up - and apologies if there is something I'm missing that makes them not sloppy joes. I admit that I skimmed the recipe.)

And stuffed clams seem more of a Sam type food to me. I would imagine Dean eating them and then asking "What the heck did I just eat?" Heh.

I think it's the torpedo roll that differentiates the dynamite from a sloppy joe.    That, and you never see churches or fire departments fundraising with "Beer and Sloppy Joe Suppers."

[millennium]

2 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Ah, I wouldn't have guessed... to me those more look like fried whole clams (real ones, with the belly). Is there something else inside there besides clams?

 

A lot of times you'd be lucky even to find pieces of clam in them.   For the most part they're big balls of fried batter.  

I found myself wondering what inspired the Rhode Island angle of this episode.    Portsmouth was an odd location to choose (and I'm not sure you can find a clamcake in that vicinity -- they're more Narragansett/Galilee area).   Then there was the name of the interdimensional entity, Yokoth.   Very Lovecraftian, and Lovecraft was from Providence, Rhode Island.

[takalotti]

I agree that the way the opening sequence cut back and forth between Sandy being dragged in and being chained to the table was very confusing. I thought there were two women and they were trying to do some sort of body swap experiment.

 

D: (sticks Kick Me post-it on Sam)

Me: "Kick me"? That sign only works when there are other people around. Who's gonna kick him: Cas? He’d take one look at it and just say "Sam, why would you want me to kick you?" and ruin it.

 

S: (notices post-its, frantically flails to get them off) Are you serious?!

Me: Why does he even care? If he really wanted to spoil the effect for Dean he should have just rolled his eyes and said, "What’s the point when it’s just you and me here?" and kept them on for the rest of the day.

 

But overall, I still have to laugh. I don’t know, something about the pointlessness of it is what makes it funnier.

 

Boys: (drop into chapterhouse)

Me: 4 8 15 16 23 42

 

As cool as their drop into the chapterhouse was, WTF kind of way in is that? How awkward was their exit we didn’t get to see? There has to be another way in, right? Otherwise there should have been boxes or a filing cabinet nearby that the previous person used when s/he left.

 

Someone in the props dept goofed, I think. Back of the photo said...

Sandy Porter

5'3"     115 lbs

Eyes: 23

Born: Feb 10, 1903

 

Either they’re saying she had 23 eyes, or before they wrote down her age they just felt like documenting that she had eyes.

 

We never did find out what was in that satchel Sam found with the crest and "Solomon - 1917" on it, did we?

 

I don’t fault the boys for freeing Sandy. They’ve been involved with time travel hijinks before, including related to the MoL. Plus they said they tested her with a few things (btw, boys, you might want to include that protocol with each other every once in a while!).

 

Hang on a sec. At the end of Devil's Bargain, I had assumed that the important errand Asmodeus finished was getting the archangel blade AND Gabriel. I didn’t think he’d had Gabriel for a long time before that, but it turns out he did and had been injecting his grace for a while? So this makes me wonder, does this have anything to do with Asmodeus' shape shifting abilities? Lucifer didn’t create him that way since he said he didn’t know where Asmodeus got that from. We know Gabriel has shape shifted in the past, right? Even with the same dissolve effect?

 

When Sandy got up from the booth, she didn’t just walk out of the diner. She appeared to go down the hall that started near the diner entrance. I assumed she was going to the bathroom.

 

Asmodeus: ... they was trying to open up a portal. To do that, they need ingredients. We need to stop them.

 

Interesting. Right off the bat at the beginning of the season, Asmodeus wanted Jack (raising up the Shideen). Then when he heard from Lucifer that there was an AW and that AWMicheal wants to come over here, Asmodeus said he would definitely need Jack (I assume to fight Michael). I think he also heard the boys were trying to open a rift to AW and said they were idiots (or maybe I’m making that up) because he did NOT want AWMichael over here. I wasn’t sure if his tune would change about the rift once he heard Jack was over there, too, but it seems it hasn’t.

 

Ketch: You don’t own me.

Me: ? I am not one of your little toys. You don’t own me... ?

 

The Ketch beatdown was completely boring to me. I don’t care about Asmodeus and I don’t care about Ketch. So if I’m not rooting for anyone, or worried about anyone, then I’m just sitting there waiting for the next scene.

 

Yeah, the RI MoL legacies really do suck at this game. Fine, leave the chapterhouse unattended. It’s underground, manhole needs a "rare key," I’m fine with them assuming that no one would happen across Sandy and just doing check ins from time to time. But showing yourselves at the diner before anyone's been knocked out? And why in their robes? At least dress normally and light up a cigarette to make it seem like you have a non sketchy reason for hanging around outside. 

 

Good thing Asmodeus didn’t lock Gabriel's cage, whatever it was that stored the archangel blade, or the throne room ?

 

Looks like getting cuffed to a radiator in A Most Holy Man was a good thing for Dean! (Yes, I know there’s no reason he wouldn’t already have had a lock pick on him at all times anyway. I take what crumbs of continuity I can get.)

 

Dean knew to snatch the seal from Sandy and toss it to Ophelia for her to use it against the tentacle gods just because she shouted "She has the Seal of Solomon!"? Seems like quite the leap. I don’t think his reaction to take the seal was simply "Oh, THAT'S the seal? Well, I’ll just take that since we need it" because if it were I’d think he would have pocketed it, or tossed it to Sam instead of Ophelia, and then he'd immediately start fighting off the tentacles or start unlocking his other shackles. Instead, he tossed it to Ophelia and then just waited. For all he knew, Ophelia might have just caught it and been like "Thanks, but we still have two tentacle gods to deal with."

 

Why was Sandy screaming so much when she got taken back up? I get that most of that universe has already been consumed and that ours was delicious, but shouldn’t she at least be happy to be reunited with Glythur again?

 

I wonder what would have happened if they chopped off a tentacle. I’m sure it could still thrash around and hit/squeeze them, but would it be as deadly without that mouth-like sucker thing on the end?

 

I know I already weighed in on this earlier, but IMO, here's how the dialog should have gone...

 

SAM: So, that’s why we came. I mean we--we--we--need the Seal to get our family back.

DEAN: And the instruction manual on how you got your hands on archangel grace, since you’re out of that now.

MARCO or OPHELIA: We never found any records on where the grace came from. 

SAM: (Accepting the seal) Well, this is still a huge help. Thank you.

DEAN: If it could take us somewhere other than, uh, tentacle porn land -- not that there’s anything wrong with that.

 

Sorry, but the boys have no business saying things like "No no, that’s impossible. He - he’s dead. We - we saw him die." Not without a 'seriously?' hairy eyeball from the other, at least.

 

Rather than snagging a hair from his own head, which as was mentioned has already been to TWO other universes, I would have preferred it if Dean had come into the library carrying a comb and mumbled "Good thing Cas isn’t a neat freak." But no, they couldn’t do that because if they acknowledged Cas then it would make keeping him out of the loop even more glaringly weird.

[SueB]

6 hours ago, takalotti said:

Boys: (drop into chapterhouse)

Me: 4 8 15 16 23 42

Ummmm... lotto numbers?

[gonzosgirrl]

18 minutes ago, SueB said:

Ummmm... lotto numbers?

Lost. :)

(They also dropped through a manhole cover of sorts)

Edited April 25, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[SueB]

25 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Lost. :)

(They also dropped through a manhole cover of sorts)

Oh, yes!  Now I recognize those numbers.  Doh!

[takalotti]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Lost. :)

(They also dropped through a manhole cover of sorts)

At least The Hatch has those sewer ladder rungs in the tunnel down, unlike this weirdness.

[rue721]

On 4/5/2018 at 9:15 PM, Jeddah said:

I hope Dean saying “Jinkies” does become a recurring thing. In light of last week’s swearing debate, I’ll say that if they can’t curse then I hope they just use Scooby Doo phrases from now on.

I love this

On 4/6/2018 at 9:26 AM, Pondlass1 said:

I enjoy Ketch.  I liked the other one too - Angus or whatever he was called.  They at least they had layers and a bit more complex than flat one note baddies like Asmo. Ketch is out for himself and will switch sides in an instant.  Dean isn't stupid and won't trust him as far as he could throw him, but I'm interested to see their adventures in the AU.

Yeah, I enjoy Ketch, too. I'm actually very happy to have him back. He's such an odd duck. I find his crush on Mary endearingly strange. And who pretends to be his own identical twin? I love that he went whole hog with that when the Winchesters first caught him this season.

Also, honestly, when he said that their problem before was that they were soldiers fighting on opposite sides but that things are different now, I thought he had a good point. That's not the Winchesters' perspective, but it makes sense that it would be Ketch's.

On 4/7/2018 at 1:57 AM, SueB said:

I'm still somewhat stunned Sam accepted his reasoning.  Splitting up (one going with one staying back) had logic.  But not waiting for Cas?  Just a glaring concern.  5 minutes before they were still having to go hunt for Archangel grace.  Now that they have it, it's suddenly a time crisis?  Nope.  That's intentional misdirection by Dean.   He's going alone on purpose (Ketch is going because he'd rather have him there than backstabbing Sammy). 

I thought Dean's reasoning made perfect sense, and was actually happy that he had such a sensible plan. Also, I think taking Cas to that world as backup would have been kind of tone deaf, because in the AU, the angels are the bad guys, and they and the humans are in a hot war. Dean and Cas going as a mixed human/angel pair would draw a lot of attention and make them a target for both humans and angels. It made more sense for a human pair, Dean and Ketch, to go in together. And since there's warding out the wazoo in the AU, Cas wouldn't necessarily be any more useful than a strong, trained human like Ketch anyway.

I was actually more interested/surprised at how hurt Sam was at Dean's plan than in the plan itself. He seemed to take it pretty personally that Dean wanted to split up, even though IMO it came off to me like Dean was just being practical.

On 4/9/2018 at 4:00 PM, AwesomO4000 said:

If this were season 7 - where this kind of humor was done much better in my opinion - there might've been some kind of detail later where Dean left a tip and then got up, Sam looked over his shoulder in the general direction of the rude waitress and took some of the tip back and stuffed it in his pocket with a "you don't deserve 18%" muttered under his breath or conveyed via a look. Now that would've been funnier, in my opinion. (And this is why I miss season 7).

This makes my blood pressure go up just thinking of it! OMFG if Sam had skimmed that lady's tip, I would have been hating him for the rest of the season at least. Petty, I guess. :P But come on, that's her livelihood right there! He's going to make it hard for her to pay rent just because she had a smart mouth?

[AwesomO4000]

14 hours ago, rue721 said:

This makes my blood pressure go up just thinking of it! OMFG if Sam had skimmed that lady's tip, I would have been hating him for the rest of the season at least. Petty, I guess. :P But come on, that's her livelihood right there! He's going to make it hard for her to pay rent just because she had a smart mouth?

I'm pretty sure that later on in the thread I changed my mind about this... it was mostly a callback to "How to Win Friends..." and crazy waiter guy when Sam said "there goes his 18%." (I, myself, always leave at least 20%.)

Edited June 6, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[ILoveReading]

22 hours ago, rue721 said:

And who pretends to be his own identical twin? I love that he went whole hog with that when the Winchesters first caught him this season.

I really like David's theory that Alexander was real and that he was Arthur's kill during their time at Hunter Hogwarts. 

 

22 hours ago, rue721 said:

Also, honestly, when he said that their problem before was that they were soldiers fighting on opposite sides but that things are different now, I thought he had a good point. That's not the Winchesters' perspective, but it makes sense that it would be Ketch's.

I was at JIB con and I asked David why he chose the play the scene where he treats Dean's bullet wound with a softer approach.  He gave the same answer.  That Ketch lived his life by a certain code and now that there is no more British Men of Letters he's kind of lost and searching and that getting killed humbled him.   Plus, Ketch as mad respect for Dean, and their soldiers fighting the same war.

He really has some good insights into his character.  Its one of the few things I don't the massive retcon because I enjoy the character. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by ILoveReading

[rue721]

9 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I'm pretty sure that later on in the thread I changed my mind about this... it was mostly a callback to "How to Win Friends..." and crazy waiter guy when Sam said "there goes his 18%." (I, myself, always leave at least 20%.)

hahaha I know, I was just messing with you :P Although I'm serious that Sam better not be cheaping out on tips!

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

I really like David's theory that Alexander was real and that he was Arthur's kill during their time at Hunter Hogwarts.

I like that theory, too, actually. Because it makes it even stranger that he tried to pretend to be him. I mean, pretending to be your own identical twin, who you also murdered?! Ketch is so bizarre. I'm happy to have him back, logic be damned (and honestly, I think they gave a good enough explanation for that retcon anyway).

Out of everybody who ostensibly wanted/needed a reunion with Mary, I'm most interested in Ketch's, too. 

Spoiler

Also, if this show is going to go into love triangle territory, the only one I can even halfway imagine being interesting is Bobby/Mary/Ketch. Mostly because of what kinds of crazy Ketch might bring to it.

[SueB]

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I really like David's theory that Alexander was real and that he was Arthur's kill during their time at Hunter Hogwarts. 

 

I was at JIB con and I asked David why he chose the play the scene where he treats Dean's bullet wound with a softer approach.  He gave the same answer.  That Ketch lived his life by a certain code and now that there is no more British Men of Letters he's kind of lost and searching and that getting killed humbled him.   Plus, Ketch as mad respect for Dean, and their soldiers fighting the same war.

He really has some good insights into his character.  Its one of the few things I don't the massive retcon because I enjoy the character. 

New headcanon! Boom!  I love that theory.  And it makes total sense.  And it makes me sad.  And David's really good at this backstory thing isn't he? 

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

hahaha I know, I was just messing with you :P Although I'm serious that Sam better not be cheaping out on tips!

I hadn't really thought about this before, but it's kind of funny that with all the other stealing they do, people are drawing the line at not tipping.

[rue721]

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I hadn't really thought about this before, but it's kind of funny that with all the other stealing they do, people are drawing the line at not tipping.

I feel like it goes from being a more or less victimless crime to just being an asshole when you're taking money that someone earned (from you no less!) and putting it back in your pocket! When it comes to tipping, there's a fucking social contract! :P

Also, I just hate when people are cheap with their tips. When I see a shitty tip I always think, come on, how selfish are you?! Because if people leave shitty tips it makes life really directly harder for the people who live off those tips -- and harder like, that SAME DAY, not in an abstract way or some time in the far off future or something. I have literally decided friendships are a no-go based on people's tipping habits lol. (And have also liked boyfriends/friends better than I probably would have otherwise, if they're generous tippers!). But that said, I was a bartender/waitress for like a decade (or more?! damn), and I guess it still just gets my goat. :P

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, rue721 said:

feel like it goes from being a more or less victimless crime to just being an asshole when you're taking money that someone earned (from you no less!) and putting it back in your pocket! When it comes to tipping, there's a fucking social contract! :P

Part of the job of being a server is being good with customers.  If they are rude, they are breaking their part of the social contract.   If they are working for a place that has the schtick of faux rudeness, the tip will be proper. 

But that  didn't seem to be the case with that server nor that diner, so to me, if Sam opted for a 12% tip instead of 15%, I'm fine with it. 

[gonzosgirrl]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Part of the job of being a server is being good with customers.  If they are rude, they are breaking their part of the social contract.   If they are working for a place that has the schtick of faux rudeness, the tip will be proper. 

But that  didn't seem to be the case with that server nor that diner, so to me, if Sam opted for a 12% tip instead of 15%, I'm fine with it. 

I 100% tip based on the service I get. I don't fault servers for less-than-great food, or obnoxious behavior of other customer who ruin my experience, but if they are snotty or impatient with me, you better believe they aren't getting a tip. I've seen servers speak to customers in a manner that I would be fired for in my job (that I don't earn tips in) so nope, you don't get a pass just because it's a crappy paying job. Like you said, it's a social contract and contracts work in both directions.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

I feel like it goes from being a more or less victimless crime to just being an asshole when you're taking money that someone earned (from you no less!) and putting it back in your pocket! When it comes to tipping, there's a fucking social contract! :P

I don't think stealing some poor guy's car (and you know based on the cars that they steal that they aren't stealing them from Millionaires) is a victimless crime.  That goes way beyond a $5 or $10  tip (which I'm also not condoning unless the waitress has done something to not earn a tip).  But that is a one-time loss of income.  If that guy can't get to work, he may lose his job.  He may even need the vehicle to do the job if he's a pizza delivery guy or something. 

[The Companion]

On 4/5/2018 at 8:02 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam and Dean find a 100+ year old woman perfectly preserved and alive in a MoL outpost. She, of course, turns out to be the God/tentacle monster, who wants to feed and breed. Feed on people, breed with Dean, who 'has a pretty face'. They prevail with the help of some other legacies, and get the Solomon stone in return.

Meanwhile Assmodeus mainlines Archangel Grace (WTAF?) and beats the shit out of Ketch, who he says he 'owns'. Ketch says fuck that noise, busts out Gabriel, and turns him and his grace over to Dean and 'Sam in exchange for protection from Asmodeus. Dean tells Sam he's going alone, one of them has to stay behind in case the rift closes. Ketch insists on going with him. And through the rift they go.

 

I feel like this recap is as entertaining, and possibly more so, than the actual episode. 😆

On 4/5/2018 at 8:23 PM, Bobcatkitten said:

I agree there were a low of unanswered questions - demons using angel grace?  Where the hell has Gabriel been. But my biggest gripe is Sam and Dean trusting this 100-year-old woman they found and never being concerned. Just no. 

 

They were so casual about it. I mean, they have seen some weird stuff, but that should at least raise some eyebrows 

On 4/6/2018 at 9:12 AM, ILoveReading said:

Except Sam and Dean only found out which ingredients they needed when Donatello translated the tablet.  The Men of Letters didn't have access to the tablet.  How did they know what to use and where would they get arch angel grace?

This is something that continues to bug me about the continuity. Angels never came to Earth except apparently they did. It is really hard to find this spell, but the MOL had it. I am trying to just go with it, but it is distracting

 

I ended up liking this one, mostly. Probably because I am a sucker for a creature feature and the tentacles monster was sort of fun, conceptually. It wasn't a favorite or anything, but it worked. 

I hated the end, though. It was rushed and it seemed like Dean had thought it through and decided not to discuss it until the end so Sam wouldn't have time to argue. Honestly, it felt like they were looking for an excuse to pair of Ketch and Dean. Maybe that isn't fair, but I wasn't persuaded by Dean's argument and it all felt unearned. 

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, The Companion said:

I hated the end, though. It was rushed and it seemed like Dean had thought it through and decided not to discuss it until the end so Sam wouldn't have time to argue. Honestly, it felt like they were looking for an excuse to pair of Ketch and Dean. Maybe that isn't fair, but I wasn't persuaded by Dean's argument and it all felt unearned. 

Characterization: what characterization?

Part of the LOL canon in these later seasons has been that the brothers are often reverted back to early season status if it means they won't get in the way of the plot, joke, whatever. So in this case we got Dean pulling the big brother thing, so he gets to make the decisions and be right so that Ketch and Dean could pair up.

Not that I wanted to see that myself... I would rather have had Mick be in this role, but nooo, Ketch has to kill him (and Eileen!) and we get stuck with Ketch instead. I mean by all rights Sam should be pissed off about Dean going anywhere with the guy who killed Eileen, but let's just skip over that.

Kind of annoying, too, because I enjoyed the rest of the episode well enough.

[The Companion]

5 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Characterization: what characterization?

Part of the LOL canon in these later seasons has been that the brothers are often reverted back to early season status if it means they won't get in the way of the plot, joke, whatever. So in this case we got Dean pulling the big brother thing, so he gets to make the decisions and be right so that Ketch and Dean could pair up.

Not that I wanted to see that myself... I would rather have had Mick be in this role, but nooo, Ketch has to kill him (and Eileen!) and we get stuck with Ketch instead. I mean by all rights Sam should be pissed off about Dean going anywhere with the guy who killed Eileen, but let's just skip over that.

Kind of annoying, too, because I enjoyed the rest of the episode well enough.

Yes. That is exactly it. Canon and characterization gets pushed aside for plot. And don't get me started on Eileen. They have barely allowed Sam to be sad over her death, even when he was depressed. 🙄

You know, the LOL canon is really frustrating, but I do find myself saying almost every episode: I liked it despite the inconsistencies/OOC behavior/ridiculous decisions by the characters. I guess I am still really enjoying the journey despite sometimes being frustrated with the writers.