Season 1: Dick Wolf Gives Us NYPD's Finest

[GHScorpiosRule]

I love that WE aired the unofficial pilot first, "Everybody's Favorite Bagman" and then resumed with episode 1 "Prescription for Death" right after.

My favorite line in the official pilot will always be Daniel Benzali as coroner on the witness stand to shut down the racisty, smug asshole defense attorney: 

Takes off glasses: "It's possible that death rays from Mars killed her. But I don't think so."

I had to stop before the next episode aired, but now it seems there are warnings about language, such as the use of the N-word? Will they no longer bleep those out? I know that when I was watching the later seasons on BBCA, they didn't bleep it out. But I figured it was because the episodes were about racism and Nazism--the exceptions, while other episodes like "Good Girl" bleeped them out.

I also love how when Mike says Auster didn't act or look drunk, Max sighs, turns to Cragen and says:

"You know looking and acting drunk don't mean squat." And then Cragen explains his experience of being a "social drinker" and then going to his first meeting.

I'm just THRILLED I can watch the early seasons without having to pull out my dvds.

Edited November 16, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

❤️💕❤️SHAMBALA!!!!!!!!❤️💕❤️

[GHScorpiosRule]

So the warning for “Subterranean Homeboy Blues” was worthless, as there weren’t any “racially charged” words. The N-word in “Poison Ivy” was bleeped out.

I haven’t watched the first season for awhile, but I’m finding Max isn’t such a sanctimonious ass as much. Aside from the episodes already mentioned, he was pretty level-headed in “By Hooker, By Crook” and he’s telling Mike not to be so judgmental!

EVERYONE IS just FANTASTIC in “Indifference” and I love Max ripping Principal Babcock a new one.

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So the warning for “Subterranean Homeboy Blues” was worthless, as there weren’t any “racially charged” words. The N-word in “Poison Ivy” was bleeped out.

I haven’t watched the first season for awhile, but I’m finding Max isn’t such a sanctimonious ass as much. Aside from the episodes already mentioned, he was pretty level-headed in “By Hooker, By Crook” and he’s telling Mike not to be so judgmental!

EVERYONE IS just FANTASTIC in “Indifference” and I love Max ripping Principal Babcock a new one.

Max was decent in most episodes actually, but he was a sanctimonious ass in both Prisoner of Love and Life Choice. I absolutely loved Cragen chewing him out in Prisoner of Love when Max wanted off the case and went on a judgmental rant about the victim, and Cragen strongly told him “request denied”. And then Max got knocked off his high horse when it was revealed the victim was Catholic like him. And of course in Life Choice I just found him to be a jackass. But he was a rather complex character, he wasn’t one note. 

[Cristofle]

On 11/17/2021 at 10:31 PM, Xeliou66 said:

And of course in Life Choice I just found him to be a jackass. But he was a rather complex character, he wasn’t one note. 

Yes! I definitely, definitely, definitely preferred Logan and am so glad that of the two, Noth is the one who stayed. But while Max is not a favorite of mine, it's a testament to the writing that he's not completely cartoonish. Even in Life Choice (definitely one of his worst episodes), he wasn't ALL one-note. He was visibly bothered by the victim's father's reaction back when the family believed she was the one who set the bomb off. 

[TotalDrama]

On 1/14/2016 at 11:05 PM, WendyCR72 said:

 

"Bagman" was filmed in 1988? Wow, talk about delayed airing!

Why it was shelved is beyond me. Why it wasn't aired FIRST when the series did get picked up is beyond me. Why the original opening didn't feature Roy Thinnes is beyond me, even though he only had one scene it makes sense to still credit the head DA overseeing the two main ADAs if you're crediting the lead of the police precinct overseeing the two main detectives. And the original opening can be seen here. Chris, Dann, George, Michael, and Richard are all credited but Roy is not:

 

NBC made a bizarre choice here. Upon knowing the series would be picked up, this should have came first as it pretty much takes place over a few month time span so starting off in let's say Fall 1989 and wrapping up in April 1990 would have been perfect. Then you have the second episode picking up in spring 1990 and then establishing Roy's character leaving and being replaced by Adam Schiff. Or, the episode should have either been reshot with new scenes upon knowing it wouldn't air first (removing Roy's character and Ben Stone mentioning Paul as his new partner), or displayed as a flashback episode displaying Logan and Greevey's first case and meeting the ADAs for the first time, anything to savage the continuity. I do not like this was just thrown out of the blue to the air like nothing as if the episode wouldn't come off disjointed to what came before and after. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by TotalDrama

[Xeliou66]

I’ve enjoyed the season 1 episodes on today - these early episodes are really good and I’m glad they didn’t pull them because of the Noth situation.

The Troubles was just on, I love this episode, one of my favorites from season 1, unique start with the prisoner transfer occurring and one of the prisoners being murdered, and a good plot about the IRA terrorist. The testimony from the woman whose family was killed by the defendant in Ireland was powerful. And I liked seeing all of the players in the case standing behind Schiff as he gave his statement to the press at the end. Some really good one liners/quotes as well in this one, and the agent at the start kicking the prisoners corpse in frustration was funny. 

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’ve enjoyed the season 1 episodes on today - these early episodes are really good and I’m glad they didn’t pull them because of the Noth situation.

Yes. But now that I *know* I couldn't help seeing how easily Noth spoke lines that demeaned women with sexual remarks, whereas the one Michael Moriarty had as Ben Stone, he paused thoughtfully for a millisecond as if trying to think of a retort that was crude enough for the suspect to relate to. I'm sorry I can't find the line or even the episode. But it was something like: 'And I'd like to be in a hot tub with [some sexy actress].' There was no smirk when Moriarty spoke it, whereas Noth always smirks at those lines. I realize this could be coming from the director to signify the personalities of the characters, but, again, now that I know what I know about Noth--well, I don't think I'll ever again see these episodes the way I saw them before.

[TotalDrama]

This show was plagued with recasting changes from the very beginning before it even hit the air and it's just humorous to me. Before the VERY FIRST EPISODE we lost Roy Thinnes to Steven Hill and then by the end of the season we'd lose George Dzunda and it's just been crazy casting changes every 1-2 years ever since. The last three seasons could have been spared this had Jesse decided to stay on longer but nope, he had to ruin things wanting to leave just when he was taking over lead role a year and some change prior. Then by Season 20, S. Epatha wanted to leave.

It's amazing this show last so long and don't give me that it was the changes that kept it afloat because other shows that have done this or even attempted gotten flack or ended up cancelled. Usually when you have a show and the same original cast sticks around for 5 or even 10+ years, people get antsy when ANYONE leaves, but with this show it's like people were use to it and didn't mind the shifts. I guess it helped the changes were happening so early because it let you know not to get use to ANYONE. By Season 5, we had like seven people depart already: Thinnes, Dzunda, Sorvino, Florek, Brooks, Moriarty, McCormick (credited as "also starring" at the end of the opening credits), and by the end of THAT season, we'd lose Chris Noth. It's just comical. Look at the spinoffs and other crime dramas that lasted long, barely this many left by their fifth years on the air. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by TotalDrama

[Xeliou66]

13 minutes ago, TotalDrama said:

This show was plagued with recasting changes from the very beginning before it even hit the air and it's just humorous to me. Before the VERY FIRST EPISODE we lost Roy Thinnes to Steven Hill and then by the end of the season we'd lose George Dzunda and it's just been crazy casting changes every 1-2 years ever since. The last three seasons could have been spared this had Jesse decided to stay on longer but nope, he had to ruin things wanting to leave just when he was taking over lead role a year and some change prior. Then by Season 20, S. Epatha wanted to leave.

It's amazing this show last so long and don't give me that it was the changes that kept it afloat because other shows that have done this or even attempted gotten flack or ended up cancelled. Usually when you have a show and the same original cast sticks around for 5 or even 10+ years, people get antsy when ANYONE leaves, but with this show it's like people were use to it and didn't mind the shifts. I guess it helped the changes were happening so early because it let you know not to get use to ANYONE. By Season 5, we had like seven people depart already: Thinnes, Dzunda, Sorvino, Florek, Brooks, Moriarty, McCormick (credited as "also starring" at the end of the opening credits), and by the end of THAT season, we'd lose Chris Noth. It's just comical. Look at the spinoffs and other crime dramas that lasted long, barely this many left by their fifth years on the air. 

It’s a testament to how great the show’s writing and formula was that the show was on for 20 seasons despite not having one person stay on for all 20 seasons. The show was all about the cases and the plots, and that’s what made it so great.

[Xeliou66]

Season 1 is back on today, just watched Prescription for Death, first episode ever aired, such a great start to the show, there were a few things to be worked out but overall the show got off to such a strong start. The case about the alcoholic doctor was really good and compelling, I loved the ME’s line “death rays from Mars could’ve killed her”, that’s an all time great line, I wish we had seen that ME again, and that case was really good, good investigation and trial.

The second episode, Subterranean Homeboy Blues, was solid as well and it was a tough case and it was interesting to see how it unfolded and what the characters views on the situation were, and I loved Stone’s line to Greevey ”do you have any other personal views on this subject you would like to air before we walk into court and Ms. Shambala Green hands us our asses on a platter!!” Shambala is one of my favorite defense attorneys, she’s very passionate and charismatic. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I loved the ME’s line “death rays from Mars could’ve killed her”, that’s an all time great line, I wish we had seen that ME again, and that case was really good,

I LOVE that Daniel Benzali was in the official pilot! And that line of his is AWESOME SAUCE! But you left out the "it's possible" before "death rays" and his ending with "but I don't think so." 😂🤣We would see him again in Season 16's season finale "Invaders" as Judge Bookman, who agreed to the shadow trial. Wish that judge would have recurred.

And YAY! Back to Ben Stone and Paul Robinette team up! And ADAM!!!! From the Order side.

And of course, Cragen, Max and Mike from the Law. And Shambala Green!

[Xeliou66]

Prisoner of Love was just on, and I absolutely love Cragen tearing into Greevey over Greevey’s request to be taken off the case, Greevey could be such a self righteous ass and Cragen was totally right in denying his request to be taken off the case - Greevey needed to shut up and do his job. And then Greevey was in for a shock when it was revealed the deceased was Catholic as well. One of L&O’s stranger episodes but pretty good. 

[Jaded]

On 12/24/2021 at 9:29 AM, shapeshifter said:

Yes. But now that I *know* I couldn't help seeing how easily Noth spoke lines that demeaned women with sexual remarks...

I just watched The Torrents of Greed: Part 2 (didn't get to see the first part). There's a scene where Max and Mike are following a woman who was a building inspector into a building to see what office she goes into. While the three of them are in a packed elevator Mike tries to come onto her and she tells him to stuff it because she doesn't like leather (something along those lines). After she exits the elevator they wait a couple seconds then follow behind her and out of the blue Mike utters the word bitch.

I guess the woman was too far ahead of them to hear what was said at that point, of course Max wasn't and the two of them think it's so funny. The way Mike said bitch out of the blue like that made me wonder if it was actually in the script or if Chris said it and it got left in.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Jaded

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 hours ago, Jaded said:

I just watched The Torrents of Greed: Part 2 (didn't get to see the first part). There's a scene where Max and Mike are following a woman into a building to see what office she goes into. While the three of them are in a packed elevator Mike tries to come onto her and she tells him to stuff it because she doesn't like leather (something along those lines). After she exits the elevator they wait a couple seconds then follow behind her and out of the blue Mike utters the word bitch.

I guess the woman was too far ahead of them to hear what was said at that point, of course Max wasn't and the two of them think it's so funny. The way Mike said bitch out of the blue like that made me wonder if it was actually in the script or if Chris said it and it got left in.

She wasn't just some woman. At first they thought she might be having an affair with Masucci's brother-in-law, Biegel, but it turned out she was a city/state inspector and had been taking bribes from him. All three were in the elevator and Mike was spouting cliched lines like "you come here often" and she told him he wasn't as clever as he thought he was or something like that (I'll be rewatching again later this week). So, being a guy, Mike called her a Bitch. Max laughed when Mike told her he was really going to love taking her in, and put his hands together prayer-like, begging Max for both of them to arrest her when they saw where her office was. But Max nixed it.

Like I posted up thread, after the news about Noth came out--I'm not going to be trying to look at each word of dialogue his character spoke as "proof" of what he supposedly was like over 30 years ago. He was a relative new comer to television, so I doubt Wolf or whoever wrote the episodes, would have let him ad lib in lines.

[Arcadiasw]

Catching season one again and seeing so many actors in their first of many appearances on the show. I came into the series later but season one was really good. Shame this series didn't get as much awards it deserved. 

[Prairie Rose]

The clothes, hair and eeegads the synthesized music didn't age well but the stories themselves are just as (sadly) relevant today, namely "Indifference" and "Life Choice". In the former, I don't think we ever saw Ben Stone ever get that close to completely losing his composure in the courtroom, before or since. Michael Moriarty was Emmy-nominated for that episode (but lost the trophy to James Earl Jones of Gabriel's Fire). 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Prairie Rose said:

The clothes, hair and eeegads the synthesized music didn't age well but the stories themselves are just as (sadly) relevant today, namely "Indifference" and "Life Choice". In the former, I don't think we ever saw Ben Stone ever get that close to completely losing his composure in the courtroom, before or since. Michael Moriarty was Emmy-nominated for that episode (but lost the trophy to James Earl Jones of Gabriel's Fire). 

Yes, Indifference was a very disturbing case, and it was the one time we saw how furious Stone was, usually Stone was very stoic and a lot less visibly passionate than McCoy, but in this one Stone was livid and it showed, he admitted as much to Schiff.

[Prairie Rose]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes, Indifference was a very disturbing case, and it was the one time we saw how furious Stone was, usually Stone was very stoic and a lot less visibly passionate than McCoy, but in this one Stone was livid and it showed, he admitted as much to Schiff.

I LOVED how Stone went after Lowenstein on the stand. David Groh was terrifying, and even now I can't see him on Rhoda without shivering.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Prairie Rose said:

I LOVED how Stone went after Lowenstein on the stand. David Groh was terrifying, and even now I can't see him on Rhoda without shivering.

I read that at first as David Grohl! Dave Grohl being the lead singer of Foo Fighters (and former Nirvana drummer, naturally!), and I was confused, since he was never on the franchise. Hee.

Always pays to read slowly late at night...

[GHScorpiosRule]

Finished watching last night and I’m thinking that “The Troubles” should have been the season finale and Dzundza’s last appearance instead of “The Blue Wall.”

And dammit, Cragen was acting guilty.

Onto season two!

Edited February 26, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Prairie Rose]

51 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Finished watching last night and I’m thinking that “The Troubles” should have been the season finale and Dzundza’s last appearance instead of “The Blue Line.”

"The Blue Wall"? Other than the fact that it gave Dann Florek a showcase, I don't see anything about it that screams "season finale". I wonder if Cragen kept the house with the pool after Marge died?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Prairie Rose said:

"The Blue Wall"? Other than the fact that it gave Dann Florek a showcase, I don't see anything about it that screams "season finale". I wonder if Cragen kept the house with the pool after Marge died?

It’s a procedural. The mothership at least, didn’t have cliffhangers for season finales. Just a regular episode. The only exception I can think of is “Aftershock.”

Marge died 8 years later. Or maybe recently before SVU premiered. I’m sure he kept it. Then again he’s also supposed to have a son who disappeared out of existence when SVU premiered. I frankly didn’t think about it as, again, this is a procedural, and more about the cases, and not a prime soap.

Edited February 26, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Prairie Rose]

According to the L&O Unofficial Companion book, the role of ADA Paul Robinette came down to Richard Brooks and Eriq La Salle. As hard as it is to imagine Robinette played by anyone but Richard Brooks, I think Eriq La Salle would have done the character justice. Then I try to imagine how Richard Brooks would have played Dr. Peter Benton on ER!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

According to the L&O Unofficial Companion book, the role of ADA Paul Robinette came down to Richard Brooks and Eriq La Salle. As hard as it is to imagine Robinette played by anyone but Richard Brooks, I think Eriq La Salle would have done the character justice. Then I try to imagine how Richard Brooks would have played Dr. Peter Benton on ER!!!

Personally speaking, I’m glad Richard got the role instead as I am not a fan of La Salle.

[bluegirl147]

On 2/26/2022 at 3:56 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

It’s a procedural. The mothership at least, didn’t have cliffhangers for season finales. Just a regular episode. The only exception I can think of is “Aftershock.”

There was Pride at the end of season five when Logan punched the councilman.  Viewers were left wondering what would happen to Logan.  He ended up on Staten Island of course. At least according to the Exiled, the TV movie most of us disavow.  

I started a rewatch of Season one and yep I still hate Greevey.  His comments about the victim in Kiss the Girls and Make Them Die were disgusting.  Implying just because she slept with more than one man the day she died she was to blame for what happened to her.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, bluegirl147 said:

There was Pride at the end of season five when Logan punched the councilman.  Viewers were left wondering what would happen to Logan.  He ended up on Staten Island of course. At least according to the Exiled, the TV movie most of us disavow.  

But it wasn't a cliffhanger--we were told that Mike paid the price. As I've posted many times, Exiled NEVER happened! 😆

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

There was Pride at the end of season five when Logan punched the councilman.  Viewers were left wondering what would happen to Logan.  He ended up on Staten Island of course. At least according to the Exiled, the TV movie most of us disavow.  

I started a rewatch of Season one and yep I still hate Greevey.  His comments about the victim in Kiss the Girls and Make Them Die were disgusting.  Implying just because she slept with more than one man the day she died she was to blame for what happened to her.  

It was revealed Logan was being demoted and sent to Staten Island at the end of Pride.

Greevey was such a jackass. I hated his judgmental attitude, I love the scene in Prisoner of Love when Greevey asks Cragen to remove him from the case and goes on his usual judgmental rant about the victim, and Cragen firmly tells him request denied and to do his job. And then Greevey gets a shock when the victims daughter reveals he was Catholic, just like Greevey.

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Greevey was such a jackass. I hated his judgmental attitude, I love the scene in Prisoner of Love when Greevey asks Cragen to remove him from the case and goes on his usual judgmental rant about the victim, and Cragen firmly tells him request denied and to do his job.

One of Cragen's best lines in the series "Wow! I can see this leading to a whole new penological outlook -- we will only pursue homicides where the vic died in a state of grace."

 

Quote

And then Greevey gets a shock when the victims daughter reveals he was Catholic, just like Greevey.

Which was why she would never commit suicide. Another great scene and I have to say Dzundza did a great job there with the reaction - didn't oversell it, but made it clear for anyone who didn't make the connection right away. He was a good actor, just not as good as he thought he was.

[bluegirl147]

15 hours ago, wknt3 said:

He was a good actor, just not as good as he thought he was.

I thought there was a smugness in the actor and the character.

I know some people hated Rey Curtis but I found him much more tolerable than Max Greevey.  I watched Life Choice last night and for Greevey to "understand" why anti choice protestors resort to violence infuriates me every time I watch it.  This wasn't the only abortion episode that the show attempted to show "both sides" but having someone, a police officer no less, attempt to excuse the violence is a horrible way to do that. 

[Xeliou66]

I’ve been watching season 1 today - Indifference was on earlier, that’s such a disturbing case, one of the hardest to watch, those 2 despicable parents were scum of the earth. It was the one time you could see Stone’s rage, usually he was very stoic but his hatred of the defendants showed in that episode, and he admitted as much to Schiff. I liked when the teacher called the mother a bitch under her breath when leaving the courtroom.

Prisoner of Love was up next, and I absolutely love the scene where Cragen firmly tells Greevey “request denied” when Greevey wanted off the case and went on his usual judgmental rant about the deceased. That’s one of my favorite scenes, and then Greevey got a shock when it was revealed the deceased was Catholic just like him. Very strange case, but still a good episode.

On 3/1/2022 at 8:21 AM, bluegirl147 said:

I thought there was a smugness in the actor and the character.

I know some people hated Rey Curtis but I found him much more tolerable than Max Greevey.  I watched Life Choice last night and for Greevey to "understand" why anti choice protestors resort to violence infuriates me every time I watch it.  This wasn't the only abortion episode that the show attempted to show "both sides" but having someone, a police officer no less, attempt to excuse the violence is a horrible way to do that. 

Yes Greevey’s attitude infuriated me as well, I just watched this episode, I found Greevey’s views despicable, and I liked how Logan and Cragen called him out on it. I do like Life Choice a lot, although I thought it was surprising that it took them so long to figure out the deceased wasn’t the bomber but someone who went to the clinic for an abortion, the autopsy would’ve shown she was pregnant which should’ve been a clue, and while I’m not an expert on arson, wouldn’t the physical evidence show that she hadn’t handled the bomb, and plus she had no ties to the actual perps. Still a good episode, and I particularly liked Schiff’s line about how he was getting angry that 3 men were sitting around talking about what rights a woman should have over her body.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Huh. WE ended season 10 and restarted with season one this week. So no sessions 11-20. 

So I have some vintage and favorite episodes to rewatch again! Then I’ll take a break.

[Columbo]

I'm an idiot. I've seen The Reaper's Helper at least three or four times now. It was only on my recent rewatch of this episode that I realised that Stone deliberately destroyed his own prosecution by leaking his conversation with the detectives to the defence counsel. 

 

There's something gritty about the first season of Law and Order that I don't think the other seasons don't quite have in theirs. It's also a little bit more slower paced than the later seasons. Which meant the scenes could breathe a little bit more and there are some more character moments.

 

I think the first season showcase two kind of episodes in which Law and Order does best. The "we think a powerful group and/or individual has done something dodgy. It might be illegal it might not but we're going to do some further investigation" episode as shown in prescription for death. The second type of episode is the "this case is a lot less straightforward then it appears on the surface" as told in the episode Happily Ever After. The change in demeanor of the wife over the course of the episode was great. From grieving widow to cold blooded woman.

[Columbo]

The Torrents of Greed could be re-edited to be a great tv crime movie.

[Xeliou66]

33 minutes ago, Columbo said:

The Torrents of Greed could be re-edited to be a great tv crime movie.

The Torrents of Greed basically was a 2 hour L&O movie, it was awesome. Very in depth case with some great twists and turns, one of my favorites from season 1.

[Columbo]

36 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

The Torrents of Greed basically was a 2 hour L&O movie, it was awesome. Very in depth case with some great twists and turns, one of my favorites from season 1.

And from my limited understanding the Mafia was a much more powerful presence in 1990 New York compared to today.

[Xeliou66]

I watched Life Choice tonight, and while I like the episode, I do not get how they didn’t figure out that Mary Donovan wasn’t the bomber up until the boyfriend told them - wouldn’t forensics prove that she wasn’t carrying the bomb based on the radius of the blast/where Donovan was, no forensics tying Donovan to the bomb, no tie between Donovan and the actual bombers. Plus she was pregnant and the autopsy would’ve revealed that, wouldn’t that give the detectives a clue? It just seemed weird, it was convenient that Donovan was an anti abortion Catholic, and that fact that she had a fake ID just led the detectives to believe she was the bomber with no evidence.

That just seemed really weird to me - it was an intriguing case and I liked some of the dialogue - Stone did a good job prosecuting and I liked Adam’s line about how he was getting angry about 3 men talking about what rights women have over their body and how it was one sided, and Greevey was quite infuriating as I’ve talked about before. But there seemed to be some holes in the first half of the episode in not figuring things out sooner. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Life Choice tonight, and while I like the episode, I do not get how they didn’t figure out that Mary Donovan wasn’t the bomber up until the boyfriend told them - wouldn’t forensics prove that she wasn’t carrying the bomb based on the radius of the blast/where Donovan was, no forensics tying Donovan to the bomb, no tie between Donovan and the actual bombers. Plus she was pregnant and the autopsy would’ve revealed that, wouldn’t that give the detectives a clue? It just seemed weird, it was convenient that Donovan was an anti abortion Catholic, and that fact that she had a fake ID just led the detectives to believe she was the bomber with no evidence.

That just seemed really weird to me - it was an intriguing case and I liked some of the dialogue - Stone did a good job prosecuting and I liked Adam’s line about how he was getting angry about 3 men talking about what rights women have over their body and how it was one sided, and Greevey was quite infuriating as I’ve talked about before. But there seemed to be some holes in the first half of the episode in not figuring things out sooner. 

As it was the first season, all I can figure is, the show was still trying to find its style. Did it want to be a continuation of the '80s cops/law shows and have some broader strokes, or did it want to be more realistic in tone?

(Because S1 did start out very '80s, with music and even episode titles, both of which were toned down [music] or phased out entirely [episode titles in show]...)

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

As it was the first season, all I can figure is, the show was still trying to find its style. Did it want to be a continuation of the '80s cops/law shows and have some broader strokes, or did it want to be more realistic in tone?

(Because S1 did start out very '80s, with music and even episode titles, both of which were toned down [music] or phased out entirely [episode titles in show]...)

Oh yes the show was still trying to find its style in season 1, but I just found that episode to have a pretty big plot hole and wondered how the detectives didn’t figure out Mary Donovan had nothing to do with the bomb until the boyfriend told them.

[Spartan Girl]

Watched “Mushrooms” just now. I’m totally on Van Buren Mrs. Winters’ side at the end when she expressed her anger that the boy that shot her children would be out in seven years. Who cares if he just got the wrong address, he still did it! Some things are just unforgivable no matter what.

Also I wanted to smack him during his testimony when he talked about how much weed he smoked before doing the shooting. If it wasn’t for the fact that he could read, I would have said that probably would have impaired his cognitive abilities as well. Seriously, if you have to get high just to be able to shoot at a house, you’re probably in the wrong profession.

[Xeliou66]

Season 1 is on today for the first time in ages - it’s great to see these episodes again.

Indifference was just on, this is a chilling and horrifying episode, and it was notable for how visibly angry Stone was, usually Stone was reserved and stoic. The Lowenstein’s were just horrid people, Jacob Lowenstein was one of the creepiest villains in the show’s history. Quite a disturbing episode, and interesting that they followed it up in season 15’s Fixed, while Fixed didn’t get some of the details of the case right as we’ve discussed before, Lowenstein was still just as creepy in that episode years later.

Prisoner of Love was on next, another good episode, I absolutely love the scene of Cragen denying Greevey’s request to be taken off the case. Greevey was such a judgmental ass, and I liked Cragen telling him off when he went on his rant. And then he gets a surprise when it’s revealed the deceased was a practicing Catholic, just like Greevey. Good investigation and case, with the bizarre relationship between the commissioner of artistic affairs and the socialite. 

[TakomaSnark]

Watching 'Mushrooms' again right now. Wasn't a big fan of the Greevey era but this episode is a standout.

[Xeliou66]

26 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

Watching 'Mushrooms' again right now. Wasn't a big fan of the Greevey era but this episode is a standout.

I don’t care for Max Greevey but I enjoy season 1, some very memorable cases. The show still had some kinks to be worked out, such as how they sometimes they jumped from one plot point to the next without making it clear how they got there, along with the longer openings, but overall the show came out strong in season 1 IMO.

And Mushrooms is a great episode, very tragic how the teenage hitman’s inability to read resulted in him shooting up the wrong apartment and killing a baby, and it was good work by the characters in piecing everything together. A very good episode all around.

[TakomaSnark]

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t care for Max Greevey but I enjoy season 1, some very memorable cases. The show still had some kinks to be worked out, such as how they sometimes they jumped from one plot point to the next without making it clear how they got there, along with the longer openings, but overall the show came out strong in season 1 IMO.

And Mushrooms is a great episode, very tragic how the teenage hitman’s inability to read resulted in him shooting up the wrong apartment and killing a baby, and it was good work by the characters in piecing everything together. A very good episode all around.

The moment during the cold open when Greevey and Logan see the bullet-ridden baby harness (? not 100% sure that is the right term) still sends chills up my spine thirty+ years later.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t care for Max Greevey but I enjoy season 1, some very memorable cases. The show still had some kinks to be worked out, such as how they sometimes they jumped from one plot point to the next without making it clear how they got there, along with the longer openings, but overall the show came out strong in season 1 IMO.

And Mushrooms is a great episode, very tragic how the teenage hitman’s inability to read resulted in him shooting up the wrong apartment and killing a baby, and it was good work by the characters in piecing everything together. A very good episode all around.

Same here. I don't really like Greevey but there are a lot of great episodes in season one. Indifference, and Mushrooms are both really good. I also love the Troubles because I remember the IRA and Sinn Fein was in the news all the time back then. I also really love Sonata for Solo Organ from what happened to that poor man to Stone's conversation with the daughter starting with him telling her he was glad she was okay because she had been very sick but asking if it had been a heart. I also liked him being asked what he'd do if it was his daughter and his answer. 

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Same here. I don't really like Greevey but there are a lot of great episodes in season one. Indifference, and Mushrooms are both really good. I also love the Troubles because I remember the IRA and Sinn Fein was in the news all the time back then. I also really love Sonata for Solo Organ from what happened to that poor man to Stone's conversation with the daughter starting with him telling her he was glad she was okay because she had been very sick but asking if it had been a heart. I also liked him being asked what he'd do if it was his daughter and his answer. 

I love all of those episodes you mentioned - Indifference and Mushrooms are chilling, particularly Indifference. The Troubles is a strong episode as well, really good case from start to finish, and Sonata for Solo Organ is strong as well, I felt really bad for the guy who got his kidney removed, nothing justifies stealing from another person’s body even if someone is dying. I liked the investigation and legal stuff in that one.

[Spartan Girl]

11 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

The moment during the cold open when Greevey and Logan see the bullet-ridden baby harness (? not 100% sure that is the right term) still sends chills up my spine thirty+ years later.

I will never unsee the image of the harness/swing dripping blood.

”It’s just a show” can’t work because I know people have seen such things and worse in real life.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I will never unsee the image of the harness/swing dripping blood.

”It’s just a show” can’t work because I know people have seen such things and worse in real life.

Yeah that was horrifying, and them going to notify the mother was memorable and harrowing as well. It was a very good and complex case, it’s a standout from season 1.

I think Indifference maybe the most memorable season 1 episode, just because of how horrifying it was, and Jacob Lowenstein truly made the skin crawl he was such a creep. This was the one time Stone was truly enraged and it showed, Ben was usually so reserved and stoic. When they revisited the case in season 15’s Fixed, they got some details wrong which was weak, but Lowenstein was just as creepy and repulsive as he was the first time around. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

The amazing thing about Ben’s rage is that he didn’t have to raise his voice or yell; you could hear his voice tremble with his anger and rage. It was awesome to behold. And one of the many reasons I still, to this day, remain disappointed Michael Moriarty went all Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

Unlike most here, I loved Max, even if I thought he was an ass in some episodes, like “Life Choice”  and “Prisoner of Love” but he was wonderful in “Mushrooms”, “Indifference”, “Everybody’s Favorite Bagman” , “Death in the Family” and others.

But I always 🙄when he tells Mike not to pass judgment in “By Hooker, by Crook” when he was a judgmental ass in “Prisoner of Love.”

Edited November 26, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The amazing thing about Ben’s rage is that he didn’t have to raise his voice or yell; you could hear his voice tremble with his anger and rage. It was awesome to behold. And one of the many reasons I still, to this day, remain disappointed Michael Moriarty went all Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

Unlike most here, I loved Max, even if I thought he was an ass in some episodes, like “Life Choice”  and “Prisoner of Love” but he was wonderful in “Mushrooms”, “Indifference”, “Everybody’s Favorite Bagman” , “Death in the Family” and others.

But I always 🙄when he tells Mike not to pass judgment in “By Hooker, by Crook” when he was a judgmental ass in “Prisoner of Love.”

Yeah you could tell how enraged Ben was just by his voice. Jack is more visibly passionate than Ben, but Ben was equally good as a prosecutor, just had a different style.

I have to disagree about Greevey, he was a pompous ass IMO, and I thought he came off as a dick in Mushrooms as well. I did like him in Poison Ivy when he had suspicions about the shooting from the start and was right.

But overall there are a lot of memorable season 1 episodes, and it was nice to see them again yesterday.