S01.E08: Love the Lie

[Notwisconsin]

Quote

The aftermath of the Indigo school discovery takes an emotional toll. Quayle grapples with his wife's new identity.

[scrb]

Well it's up on demand.

Way things are going, this conspiracy will go on well beyond this season.

The headmistress of the sleeper agent school gets away and of course at the end, Peter is going to protect Clare Prime for whatever reason.  She's the mother of her child and he fears for his career now?  Lying to protect Clare will only get him in deeper trouble.

Clare probably planned to bat her lashes and gaslight Peter if she were ever discovered.  She knew better than to admit she killed her shadow.

I'm not sure why the Howard's had to have that confrontation, shit-talking about each other's lives and Howard Prime not telling Meek Howard that Emily has waken up.  Will that impair their ability to fight the bad guys?  Or that scene is a showcase for Simons' acting?

Did Baldwin kill a shadow or a sleeper agent?  He was by himself so I wonder if it's an original that she was suppose to assasinate.

[Haleth]

Oh, Peter. This will not end well for you. 

The Howard face off was terrific. Meek Howard is learning fast. 

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Did Baldwin kill a shadow or a sleeper agent?  He was by himself so I wonder if it's an original that she was suppose to assasinate.

I think it was our guy she was killing so the replacement could slide in.  I'm really tired of Baldwin. 

[mjc570]

I have to admit that the character I'm really tired of is sanctimonious Howard.  Dogs love unconditionally - the fact that you, Howard, have this capacity does not make you a better person, it makes you spineless and insecure, this goes beyond forgiveness.  He obviously feels superior because he is "more honest" and "fixing" Prime Howard's life, but I don't agree.

I'm tired of Baldwin, too, and wish she could be more directly tied into the main story sooner rather than later. Since she's a super secret assassin, why can't she buy some concealer to cover up that huge, identifiable wound on her face?  We really don't need a way to differentiate her anymore, we know who she is.  Just keep her hair short.   

I still don't buy the school idea - it seems that it would be much easier for a properly motivated adult to be trained to replace his or her other than to raise these kids for years or possibly decades on the chance their others may be in a position of influence.  After all, the longer they have been living separately, the more their lives may have diverged.  I guess they are doing it as much to indoctrinate the kids, but still. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, scrb said:

'm not sure why the Howard's had to have that confrontation, shit-talking about each other's lives and Howard Prime not telling Meek Howard that Emily has waken up.  Will that impair their ability to fight the bad guys?  Or that scene is a showcase for Simons' acting?

I figured all (both) of the above. 
Anyone else notice when Howard' called Howard "meek"?

 

1 hour ago, mjc570 said:

…Since [Balwin is] a super secret assassin, why can't she buy some concealer to cover up that huge, identifiable wound on her face?  We really don't need a way to differentiate her anymore, we know who she is. 

Well, again—

On February 26, 2018 at 5:32 AM, shapeshifter said:

I've been assuming she is representing the very scary legendary Slit Mouth Woman of Japanese culture (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuchisake-onna)…

but I'm still not sure how exactly the imagery of the legend applies to this story. Anyone?

[Mardo2044]

4 hours ago, scrb said:

 

I'm not sure why the Howard's had to have that confrontation, shit-talking about each other's lives and Howard Prime not telling Meek Howard that Emily has waken up.  Will that impair their ability to fight the bad guys? 

The argument was howard silk could use prime's credentials could make that interchange happen on "Prime" side to share the info about the school.  Anyways, my thought was Howard Prime doesn't say Emily alpha is out of coma because then Howard Silk would want to be back in his life and out of there and Howard Prime would be returned without a visa homebound on Prime side and operationally ineffective.

[Mardo2044]

I am so happy.  I remember thinking last episode Aldrich is the most interesting because he is a real cop's cop.  (detective, spy, operative, whatever) and married to his job and very good at it.  I don't remember which episode but the scene where he had a bed at the office and his comfy slippers in his safe when he went to work to investigate the mole was spot on...it told a lot in a quiet way. I also thought he would have a counterpart that had similar position and skills when this copy happened....so it is interesting how they fleshed that out in the storyline.  

Edited March 12, 2018 by Mardo2044

[Mardo2044]

Quayle....oh no you didn't!  Just didn't see him fingering Silk.  What a mind twist.

[Mardo2044]

The guy that answers the phone about the dry cleaners and then sits on couch....I think he wedged the file in the couch to be found later.  My DH thinks he was in shock and just left it...but I think it would have been seen if that was the case.  He happens to follow the teacher who is bugging out of there saying "our work is not done" so it will be interesting to see whose side he is on.

[Mardo2044]

Although I like the actress but I don't really want to watch the Baldwin stuff.  It seems aimless and the nudity/sex seems added cause they can...not because it adds to plot or character development.

[hardy har]

9 hours ago, Haleth said:

Oh, Peter. This will not end well for you. 

The Howard face off was terrific. Meek Howard is learning fast. 

I think it was our guy she was killing so the replacement could slide in.  I'm really tired of Baldwin. 

I think Peter was protecting himself more than Claire. If Aldrich's anecdote about killing that woman his Other fell for was any indication, I'm guessing Peter figured Aldrich wouldn't have much of  a problem killing him for being a gullible idiot. Speaking of Aldrich......Ulrich Thomsen is the shit. I know the "big scene" this time around was Howard/Howard, but the Aldrich/Quayle scene with the soup was probably my favorite scene of the entire series so far.   

I thought Claire lying about killing her other was a nice parallel to Quayle lying to Aldrich about the mole. I wonder how long before the Sleepers realize something is up, considering Claire is too busy being cuffed to a towel rack to contact them anymore. 

9 hours ago, Haleth said:

I think it was our guy she was killing so the replacement could slide in.  I'm really tired of Baldwin. 

I think it was Alpha Guy too. He was way too chipper to be the sleeper agent. Unless they gave Sleeper Agent grocery buying privileges and he was super stoked about it :) I'm fine with Baldwin, I just wish they'd tie her to the main plot a little more. She legit has some kind of back story with Claire, Prime Howard came over to find her and Alpha Howard had some sort of impact on her earlier on, so I'm a little confused why she hasn't been more involved in the A plot. 

Re: Howard vs Howard scene.....I wonder how much of this was Prime exploiting an opportunity to stay on the Alpha side on top of everything else? There have been some references to him traveling over there repeatedly and Emily Prime made it seem like he was really attached to Alpha World. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by hardy har

[Haleth]

Baldwin is very involved in the A plot.  She was sent to take out the Alpha folks so the Prime people could assume their lives.  She gets her orders through Clare from Pope.

[Auntie Anxiety]

I love this show even though half the time I don't understand what the heck is going on. I find myself wondering about stuff like who was taking care of Quayle's child (Spencer?) while he was having drinks at the bar with Aldrich? Why does everyone on the Prime side wear gray or black, even those kids at the school? Was Jacqueline Bisset Emily Silk's sister or mother (finally realized she was Emily's mother)? Does Ian (?) know that Howard Silk is not Howard Prime (how could he not know? Isn't he supposed to be an intelligence agent?)? The red-headed female that was sent over--why doesn't someone in costuming or makeup do something about her freakishly large forehead (I had the same criticism of her when she appeared in Outlander); it's so distracting.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, hardy har said:

Re: Howard vs Howard scene.....I wonder how much of this was Prime exploiting an opportunity to stay on the Alpha side on top of everything else? There have been some references to him traveling over there repeatedly and Emily Prime made it seem like he was really attached to Alpha World

Oooh. What if the Emilys were switched a long time ago. To, me this would make so much sense. And it would mean Meek Howard's real wife is the Emily he is now hanging out with.

[qtpye]

17 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I have to admit that the character I'm really tired of is sanctimonious Howard.  Dogs love unconditionally - the fact that you, Howard, have this capacity does not make you a better person, it makes you spineless and insecure, this goes beyond forgiveness.  He obviously feels superior because he is "more honest" and "fixing" Prime Howard's life, but I don't agree.

I'm tired of Baldwin, too, and wish she could be more directly tied into the main story sooner rather than later. Since she's a super secret assassin, why can't she buy some concealer to cover up that huge, identifiable wound on her face?  We really don't need a way to differentiate her anymore, we know who she is.  Just keep her hair short.   

I still don't buy the school idea - it seems that it would be much easier for a properly motivated adult to be trained to replace his or her other than to raise these kids for years or possibly decades on the chance their others may be in a position of influence.  After all, the longer they have been living separately, the more their lives may have diverged.  I guess they are doing it as much to indoctrinate the kids, but still. 

Howard's reasoning that allowing someone to take advantage of you "makes your love purer" is something one hears often with people who stay with romantic interests that treat them like crap.  It also goes for people who let family members take advantage of them again and again under the reasoning "you do for family". He has rationalized that him being treated in this manner and staying, makes his love truly "special".  He is disgusted that Prime Howard seems to throw his loved ones away so easily.

[meira.hand]

3 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I find myself wondering about stuff like who was taking care of Quayle's child (Spencer?) while he was having drinks at the bar with Aldrich?

As he came to frame Howard Silk instead of Clare, I assume he decided to keep her secret and so freed her and she is taking care of the child.

3 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Does Ian (?) know that Howard Silk is not Howard Prime (how could he not know? Isn't he supposed to be an intelligence agent?)?

He clearly does not other wise why interrogate him about what Howard Prime said to Emily (in the embassy). Also all his comments to Clare and to Howard during the evening were clearly aimed at Howard prime, i.e. Emily's ex-husband.

[shapeshifter]

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

 

20 hours ago, mjc570 said:

…Since [Balwin is] a super secret assassin, why can't she buy some concealer to cover up that huge, identifiable wound on her face?  We really don't need a way to differentiate her anymore, we know who she is. 

Well, again—

On February 26, 2018 at 5:32 AM, shapeshifter said:

I've been assuming she is representing the very scary legendary Slit Mouth Woman of Japanese culture (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuchisake-onna)…

but I'm still not sure how exactly the imagery of the legend applies to this story. Anyone?

Okay. I was talking about this today with someone familiar with the Slit Mouth Woman legend and concluded that Baldwin is simply a type of that archetype in that she is a scary assasin. So far she's not all that scary, but maybe there's a chilling horror assasination yet to happen.

[hardy har]

12 hours ago, Haleth said:

Baldwin is very involved in the A plot.  She was sent to take out the Alpha folks so the Prime people could assume their lives.  She gets her orders through Clare from Pope.

No, I know that. I should've expressed it differently. I wish she had more involvement with the other main characters. It just felt like she was kind of off doing her own thing for a few episodes, but now that I think about it......not that much time has passed since the first episode has there? Has it even been a week?

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

Howard's reasoning that allowing someone to take advantage of you "makes your love purer" is something one hears often with people who stay with romantic interests that treat them like crap.  It also goes for people who let family members take advantage of them again and again under the reasoning "you do for family". He has rationalized that him being treated in this manner and staying, makes his love truly "special".  He is disgusted that Prime Howard seems to throw his loved ones away so easily.

I still maintain the shittiest thing Howard Alpha has done is give Ana false hope about her relationship with her dad.

8 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Does Ian (?) know that Howard Silk is not Howard Prime (how could he not know? Isn't he supposed to be an intelligence agent?)? 

Ian seems to hate Howard with the burning fire of 1,000 suns, so I imagine that's part of the problem.     

Other things:

- I did not need to see a pile of dead kids. That was fucked. 

- I wonder if Pope's other is still alive?

- I wonder if Quayle will tell Prime what he did?

[scrb]

If they show that Peter bought Clare's lie about extracting alpha Clare to the other side, he's a colassal dolt.

He's high up in intelligence and security matters.  Does he really think they're going to go  through the trouble of kidnapping alphas and giving them lives on the other side?

Because they're such nice people, who are looking to impersonate alphas?

[shapeshifter]

54 minutes ago, scrb said:

If they show that Peter bought Clare's lie about extracting alpha Clare to the other side, he's a colassal dolt.

He's high up in intelligence and security matters.  Does he really think they're going to go  through the trouble of kidnapping alphas and giving them lives on the other side?

Because they're such nice people, who are looking to impersonate alphas?

When Claire seemingly convinced Peter that her counterpart was living over on the other side on a farm with a nice family (like parents have been known to tell children when the family dog dies) and begged him to let her breastfeed the baby—even though we had seen that the baby was the first person Claire genuinely cared for since she was separated from the baby's namesake, and even though I breastfed my kids for years—I was still cringing with fear that Claire was going to break the baby's neck as soon as Peter handed her to Claire.

[marinw]

JK Simmons actings with himself is one of the the best things ever. Badass Howard was such a asshat for not telling his other about Emily’s improvement.

[wanderingstar]

Just saw it. Fantastic episode. The Howard/Prime confrontation was an awesome, awesome slow burn. Jeez, JK Simmons is amazing.

Can't/can believe Peter has Claire handcuffed in the house. He is NOT cut out for the stealth spy game. He may be learning, though, now that he's trying to throw Howard under the bus for Claire's infiltration. 

Still waiting for them to fully fold Baldwin into the story.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

. He is NOT cut out for the stealth spy game. He may be learning, though, now that he's trying to throw Howard under the bus for Claire's infiltration. 

 

Good point that Peter is Fail Spy. Must be Claire's idea to blame Howard.

[wilnil]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 7:50 PM, marinw said:

Badass Howard was such a asshat for not telling his other about Emily’s improvement.

He's still a total manipulator. If he told, then Howard Alpha would agitate to get back home and help with his wife's rehab, and Howard Prime couldn't have that.

[wayne67]

Angel Eyes died super easily, so presumably he was one of the original marks. Honestly I don't get Baldwin or her situation or even care. 
This show feels like an uphill battle, I figured Peter would blame his father in law for being the mole, not Howard, since meek Howard only recently got higher clearance and the Other Howard has only shown up recently. 

I don't know I'm rapidly losing interest in this show. 

[Scamp]

On 3/12/2018 at 3:25 AM, Mardo2044 said:

Although I like the actress but I don't really want to watch the Baldwin stuff.  It seems aimless and the nudity/sex seems added cause they can...not because it adds to plot or character development.

This elderly lesbian viewer is delighted to see brief but believable sex between women on TV.  I do think it lets us see Baldwin's emotional neediness, hidden behind her assassin's mien.  

[AudienceofOne]

I was finding this episode tedious until the Howard showdown. That was so fantastic. I really love this exploration of what makes them the same and what makes them different. And it all comes down to how they deal with conflict. Since that is a learned behaviour, it makes me wonder why they deal with it so differently. 

On 8/30/2018 at 5:24 AM, Scamp said:

This elderly lesbian viewer is delighted to see brief but believable sex between women on TV.  I do think it lets us see Baldwin's emotional neediness, hidden behind her assassin's mien.  

I agree. But it doesn't make The Annoyer any less annoying. The stale characterisation, the cliches, the melodramatic tone of all her scenes.