Relationship Thread: Advice, Venting And Everything Else

[JTMacc99]

I just started back up on moving things forward and as I read through documents and forms, I was faced with the reality that it's going to be messy and sad and I HAVE to accept that without giving in.

It was just a bad day. It ended fun though. Found another ISFJ, and we got to crack up at how the list of weaknesses sounded so familiar. 

[DeLurker]

Why sad?

[JTMacc99]

Because I'm going to have to see a person I care about go through a cycle of anxiety and depression and I will just have to keep doing what I need to do for me this time. 

[DeLurker]

Given what you have shared in the past, you are a remarkably compassionate person.  I am truly sorry that this will be difficult for you, but it seems that with all the steps you have taken in the last year (?) or so, have been very positive for you but also extremely positive for your children.  You're exercising, eating healthier, investing more time in your appearance - all while continuing to ensure they are not neglected in the least.  You are presenting a positive role model that balance being an involved parent and taking care if yourself.  All those things, plus others that the children may not be directly aware of, seem to have re-calibrated your mood and enthusiasm for being.  That is extremely important for your children to see and feel because it is very easy for them to feel a parent's bad mood/depression/anger is the result of something they did - and that is not true and that is not fair to them.

You don't want your children to adopt the habit of acting out in someway is a positive because it gets you your way.  And I highly suspect that it is not your intention to normalize this because you don't want them to accept that from a relationship of their own. If things are going your ex's way, I am assuming she is fine.  The minute things are not going her way, she starts to spiral and then you try to get her back on solid footing because it is not pleasant for you and not good for your children.  Whether the spirals are an intentional effort to manipulate is not relevant - the result is - she becomes the center of everyone's concern and a priority for everyone.

I know that the situation is a lot more complex and nuanced then how I have said, but the pattern and the results matter.  I kept trying to change how I handled things in my marriage and no matter how I modified it, the result was always the same.  And I kept trying for a long time - too long.  And when I finally recognized that I was never going to get a different result was when I knew I had to get a divorce.  Even after I knew that, it still took quite the while for me to pull that trigger.

I suspect you've tried to change the equation a zillion times too, but with only a temporary different/acceptable result.  What needs to happen now is for you to be able to move forward in your divorce for yourself and your children.  It doesn't mean you've hardened your heart or wish ill to their mom - I suspect you'll continue to be extremely kind to her.  But whatever problems she may have, the primary responsibility for her mental/emotional state you need to relinquish.  If she spirals hard, you need to put your children's well being first.  Even if that means altering any custody agreement.

It sounds so easy and obvious when it is not my relationship and family that I am thinking about...but it wasn't easy for me and I know it isn't easy for you.

[JTMacc99]

1 hour ago, DeLurker said:

I know that the situation is a lot more complex and nuanced then how I have said, but the pattern and the results matter

It both is, and it isn't. I'm just sitting here thinking that I'm so tired of hurting people whether it is because by trying to not hurt one I hurt somebody else, or if I do something the other way around and flip the people getting hurt.
 

And when I get down to it, I'm the one taking the most severe beating. I've had enough I think. And all of the things you mentioned are legitimate concerns of mine, and they're going to suck. I guess I just need to figure out a way to deal with them in a new way from the way I've always dealt with them.

[DeLurker]

People are remarkably resilient - and sometimes the most fragile seeming are the best at it.  I will ungraciously speculate because they have a lot in  reserve as others around them are often absorbing the brunt force for them.

From my own experience, the ex double downed (to borrow a term too often heard in the political arena of late) on the most manipulative ploys to get me to take him back.  It was hard not to cave the first time, because he was relentless.  But I did it and it got easier each time after that. 

What say the therapist as to how to change the dynamics?

[JTMacc99]

11 hours ago, DeLurker said:

What say the therapist as to how to change the dynamics?

Usually it's along the lines of gentle but firm statements about what we need to do. She also pushes me to do things for myself. 

[ari333]

I just found this thread. I've been ranting in "Pet peeves." I'll rant here now.

[ari333]

This is personal and embarrassing

Backwhen I was a few pounds overweight, my mother would mail me articles on diet and all kinds of weight related things.I threw them away. ANGRY. I was maybe 20 pounds overweight at the time.  Then when I'd visit my parents , guess what the topic was. My weight. I would visit with my then-boyfriend and when I left the room to go to the bathroom my mother would ask him, "what are WE going to do about (my name here's) weight?" I heard it. Then for some reason I'd go back to my own  home and eat everything in sight which is counterproductive, but I was just so angry. I got Christmas gifts of exercise equipment that I didn't ask for .  Or I got clothes that were 2 sizes too small on purpose. TAKE THAT.

I finally had enough and asked her to stop. My dad did it too, but to a little lesser extent. Imo no one should comment on any adult's weight/appearance in a negative way.  Apparently there is something annoying about the way my toes point when I walk, my posture, my facial expressions, the way I pronounce some words. COUPON! no COUPON! I want to scream goddammit just stop. Then they wondered why I didn't visit anymore.

[Qoass]

I once had a supervisor during a lunch with a client indicate that I should go in for a makeover .  I replied that there were so many beautiful things on this earth that I felt no obligation to be one of them.  Shut her right up.

[ari333]

5 hours ago, Qoass said:

I once had a supervisor during a lunch with a client indicate that I should go in for a makeover .  I replied that there were so many beautiful things on this earth that I felt no obligation to be one of them.  Shut her right up.

That is a good one. I wish I'd thought of it. I will steal it and use it. :) If you have any more zingers I could use some.

[ari333]

Awhile back I took my mother to brunch and I was telling an amusing story to make conversation and I was doing all the voices and hand gestures to animate the story. She stared at me and said in a dry way,"You need a makeover." Ouch.

[BookWoman56]

@ari333  I don't have any zingers but in your situation, I'd make it clear I have zero interest in going for a makeover, and less than zero interest in continuing to get negative comments about my weight, appearance, life in general, etc. When you continue to let your mother (or anyone else) make those kinds of comments without pushing back, it just encourages that person to continue to do the same damn thing. You've already asked her to stop, and she hasn't. I'm not you, and I'm a good bit older and crankier with less tolerance for bullshit, but the next time she says something like that, you might consider a flat statement along the line of, "I've asked you before not to make negative comments about my weight/appearance, but you haven't stopped. So I can only conclude that what I want makes no difference to you. You're my mother and I care about/love you, but effective today, I will not be visiting again for the next three months. At the end of the three months, if you feel like we can see each other without you criticizing me, then let me know and we can give it a try. If you don't think you can do it, then I'm sorry, but I don't need that kind of negativity in my life."

Toxic relationships are a bitch, but it sounds as if your mother is not going to alter her behavior until someone seriously calls her on it. Again, I am much less emotional than many people, but with any relationship there can come a point when you need to evaluate if there is any positive aspect for you, and if it's predominantly negative, then maybe it's time to put some distance there. 

[ari333]

14 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

@ari333  I don't have any zingers but in your situation, I'd make it clear I have zero interest in going for a makeover, and less than zero interest in continuing to get negative comments about my weight, appearance, life in general, etc. When you continue to let your mother (or anyone else) make those kinds of comments without pushing back, it just encourages that person to continue to do the same damn thing. You've already asked her to stop, and she hasn't. I'm not you, and I'm a good bit older and crankier with less tolerance for bullshit, but the next time she says something like that, you might consider a flat statement along the line of, "I've asked you before not to make negative comments about my weight/appearance, but you haven't stopped. So I can only conclude that what I want makes no difference to you. You're my mother and I care about/love you, but effective today, I will not be visiting again for the next three months. At the end of the three months, if you feel like we can see each other without you criticizing me, then let me know and we can give it a try. If you don't think you can do it, then I'm sorry, but I don't need that kind of negativity in my life."

Toxic relationships are a bitch, but it sounds as if your mother is not going to alter her behavior until someone seriously calls her on it. Again, I am much less emotional than many people, but with any relationship there can come a point when you need to evaluate if there is any positive aspect for you, and if it's predominantly negative, then maybe it's time to put some distance there. 

You nailed it so much. This is excellent advice Thank you so much. I don't even think I can do the "see you" part. Im several hundred miles away right now. I'm lucky if I can tolerate a fucking phone call without being stricken with sadness. ....like the one this morning when I told my dad I just cant anymore with her.  My dad is a more gentle soul,but he is scared shitless of her. IDK why. The weird part is that I love both of them and wish things were different. AND I SAID THAT> All she wanted to talk about is that my last relationship with my ex was bad and thatshe was right and I  was wrong. He was  less than perfect, but I was trying to make it work . Meanwhile I have had a current  happy 7 yr relationshipwith a good man but we cant talk about that bc why? He's Mexican. He is good to me. That is a bright spot. Iow all she wants to discuss are sad things  in my life - things from the past that are long over, but hey let's rehash them...... and rehash and rehash ...That feels bad and I think that is the point... for it to feel bad. .

Edited February 7, 2017 by ari333

[ari333]

I think part of my problem is that I feel guilty when I distance myself from them. Im trying to spare myself the pain  but I feel guilty about it... until I read here and see Im not crazy or "too sensitive." Thank you all for the input. I needed to read it.

[Wings]

9 hours ago, Qoass said:

I once had a supervisor during a lunch with a client indicate that I should go in for a makeover .  I replied that there were so many beautiful things on this earth that I felt no obligation to be one of them.  Shut her right up.

WOW!  Excellent come back.  This is one of those things you usually think about after the fact and want a do over!  Good job!  

[ari333]

4 minutes ago, wings707 said:

WOW!  Excellent come back.  This is one of those things you usually think about after the fact and want a do over!  Good job!  

YES! That's a keeper :) I wonder if we could have a thread of excellent comebacks to backhanded compliments and such. . No, really I'm serious.

[DeLurker]

@ari333 - it sounds like your Mom is a handful and has been for as long as you can remember.  You've given examples where she strikes out at other family members too.  Calmly tell her immediately and straight out the next time one of these topics come up that it is a no-fly zone and she needs to respect your feelings on that or the call needs to end.  You don't need to explain yourself - especially since you probably have in the past and it made no difference.

If she says you are being unreasonable or too sensitive, say you've always felt this way so this should be no surprise - but stay calm.  Say I'll call again next week and goodbye.

You'll probably feel horrible the first time it happens, but the world is not going to come to an end.  You are already dealing with a ton of guilt and anxiety that is making you sick, so there really doesn't seem to be a downside (from my side of the internet).

[BookWoman56]

@ari333 if it's only phone calls, then by all means just give her fair warning the next time she starts with the barrage of criticism and let her know you're not going to listen to that shit any more. Stop the conversation, tell her to call you back when she can do so without nagging you about stuff, and hang up the damn phone. Lather, rinse, repeat. Either she will modify her behavior or you will gradually quit feeling bad about maintaining the distance. 

Because it cannot be said enough: You are a grown-ass adult woman. Your weight, appearance, love life, etc., are your concern and you are responsible for making decisions about those things. Not your mother. Not your father. Not your BFF. Not anyone other than  you. It's one thing to make an occasional observation or offer a suggestion to someone, but that's not what is happening here. Instead, your mother is harping on these things because she wants to control your life, and refuses to acknowledge anything good in your life not just because of your BF's ethnicity, but because admitting  you have any success at something means you have the ability to make good choices and don't need her interference. It's a toxic relationship at this point. Maintain your distance as needed to retain your own sanity and well-being. If your mother can't be glad that you have good things going on in your life and wants instead to remake you to suit her idea of what you should be, then she's obviously got some of her own issues going on.

[ari333]

14 hours ago, DeLurker said:

@ari333 - it sounds like your Mom is a handful and has been for as long as you can remember.  You've given examples where she strikes out at other family members too.  Calmly tell her immediately and straight out the next time one of these topics come up that it is a no-fly zone and she needs to respect your feelings on that or the call needs to end.  You don't need to explain yourself - especially since you probably have in the past and it made no difference.

If she says you are being unreasonable or too sensitive, say you've always felt this way so this should be no surprise - but stay calm.  Say I'll call again next week and goodbye.

You'll probably feel horrible the first time it happens, but the world is not going to come to an end.  You are already dealing with a ton of guilt and anxiety that is making you sick, so there really doesn't seem to be a downside (from my side of the internet).

Agreed on all counts.

6 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

@ari333 if it's only phone calls, then by all means just give her fair warning the next time she starts with the barrage of criticism and let her know you're not going to listen to that shit any more. Stop the conversation, tell her to call you back when she can do so without nagging you about stuff, and hang up the damn phone. Lather, rinse, repeat. Either she will modify her behavior or you will gradually quit feeling bad about maintaining the distance. 

Because it cannot be said enough: You are a grown-ass adult woman. Your weight, appearance, love life, etc., are your concern and you are responsible for making decisions about those things. Not your mother. Not your father. Not your BFF. Not anyone other than  you. It's one thing to make an occasional observation or offer a suggestion to someone, but that's not what is happening here. Instead, your mother is harping on these things because she wants to control your life, and refuses to acknowledge anything good in your life not just because of your BF's ethnicity, but because admitting  you have any success at something means you have the ability to make good choices and don't need her interference. It's a toxic relationship at this point. Maintain your distance as needed to retain your own sanity and well-being. If your mother can't be glad that you have good things going on in your life and wants instead to remake you to suit her idea of what you should be, then she's obviously got some of her own issues going on.

Thank you for saying exactly what I've been feeling FOR YEARS.

[ari333]

Thanks you guys. I think they are all toxic, but I didn't want to face it. There's more, but I don't want to bore people here and frankly the shit I could tell you is not even believable. If I didn't witness it I wouldn't believe it. Thank god my bf saw much of it happen (not all) but at least I have one witness to tell me I'm not fucking crazy.

When I cant take it anymore I stop calling. Time goes by and I call to check on them. I get told that "you're punishing us. WE HAVE FEELINGS TOO." What the fuck ?  Then either my brother or mother (and not guessing my father bc he is less inclined to be hateful but he doesn't intervene when the hateful is happening.) called the police and said I HARRASSING THEM. I was returning phone calls from them  So I said that they should call me from time to time and that way no one can claim I am harassing them which is absurd. Returning a phone call is not harassment. My brother wants to hurt me so much that I never showup again and am out of the family. They are in their 80's and he wants their house - not split it with me, his only sibling. and he is well off and his wife is wealthy. I hate to say greedy bastard, but.

[ari333]

My problem( one of them) is that I took their shit for so long, when I finally pushed back to save my sanity , they didn't like it. There is something sick going on.

[NutMeg]

Some people, such as my mother, were brought up with the idea that a compliment spoils the receiver. All I heard trough my teenage years was how I should do this or that, or not do this and that, and how doing this or that made me look like [my favourite!] a "spinster librarian" (I so wish I could have become a librarian, or failing that work in a bookstore, having books around me all day long! I did however resent the implication that I would have a nonexistent love life). I was very surprised when one day shopping with my mum, a punk guy (and I really mean punk as in shaved head, tartan trousers, Doc Martens boots) shouted at her "your daughter is pretty" and without missing a beat she answered back "I know". That was the first time she ever acknowledged that maybe I was not the hunch back of Notre Dame.

I only started understanding where she was coming from many, many years later, after I had a kid. I was full on complimentary to him, had this little song I made in French, which meant he was handsome, kind and nice, and my mum, who was visiting, "advised" me that, while he was indeed super cute, it would not do to tell him that too often because it "might get to his head". And that's when I understood why there was never any compliment on my appearance from her  all these years while I was growing up. I got plenty of kudos for my brain, never, ever, for how I look. She didn't believe in compliments on how I looked, so she never gave any. She wanted me to improve what I could, so gave me many criticisms, some of which turned out to have great consequences (I loved ballet, which she signed me up to because of my bad posture, and acting class, deemed necessary because I was mumbling :), was so much fun, thanks mum), some not so much (I'll never not be suspicious of anyone who finds me good looking, I'll play along but I won't trust it). On the other hand, for the longest time, I never doubted my intellectual capacities, so at least confidence there was entrenched.

Since she's become older and had to face painful loss of people close to her, she's mellowed her tone, but I still cannot really believe her. If she says I have "allure", I buy it, because that to me means clothes, posture, attitude. If she says I look good, I buy it, because that means my outfit is well chosen. If she says (as she did once or twice, not sure because I tend to block it) that I am good looking, I don't buy it, because it's a total cognitive dissonance. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by NutMeg

[DeLurker]

Know that parenting approach as well.  It screws with your head from a very early age because total strangers will compliment you, but your own family is indifferent at the same time.  Of course, the alternative parenting style which focuses solely on looks is not a great groundwork for a healthy existence either.

As a parent myself, I try to walk a line somewhere in the middle in complimenting their looks but also commenting upon other talents - intellect. vocabulary, creativity, independent thought, ...

[NutMeg]

You know, it's necessary to cheer your kids in the activities of their choice. It's also and above all needed for you to tell them that you love them and will always love them.

[ratgirlagogo]

20 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Some people, such as my mother, were brought up with the idea that a compliment spoils the receiver

It's also a common idea in many cultures (Irish, Chinese, Russian, Spanish,  and many many others I'd guess) that praising a child in public is extremely bad luck because it will either  1)attract the attention of malicious spirits and/or 2) cause bitter hateful human neighbors/relatives to become jealous of the child and become dangerous to him/her.

Edited February 11, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[ari333]

12 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

It's also a common idea in many cultures (Irish, Chinese, Russian, Spanish,  and many many others I'd guess) that praising a child in public is extremely bad luck because it will either  1)attract the attention of malicious spirits and/or 2) cause bitter hateful human neighbors/relatives to become jealous of the child and become dangerous to him/her.

Yes, "The evil eye"

[BookWoman56]

There's a difference, though, in not gushing over your child in public and never giving them any positive feedback in private. I firmly believe that people should not be judged on their looks, but I also believe in being honest with your kids about things that are going to affect them. For example, when raising my daughter, I praised her for academic achievements and so forth, because that is what is important to me. But she is also extremely attractive, enough that she's done some modeling, and people will often compliment her appearance in public. So several years ago, I had to have the talk with her where I discussed both the pros and cons of being attractive, based on my experiences when younger. Yes, people will hit on you because you're attractive, which can be a boost to the ego. Yes, people will often fall for the stereotype that if you are attractive, you can't possibly be intelligent, and so in your classes, etc., be sure to speak up fairly early in the course so that the instructor and other students realize you're not just a pretty face sitting there with nothing going on in your head. On the flip side of that, many years ago I knew a young woman whose mother had convinced her she was gorgeous when she was not. Great body but her face was just okay, not ugly but not really very attractive, and not in any way interesting or compelling. Yet her mother had convinced her that she was drop dead gorgeous and needed to go to LA to get discovered so she could act in TV or films, despite a complete and total lack of any acting skills and barely being able to read a script. As it turned out, the only success she had in acting was being a body double in some sci-fi flick. She was quite unhappy for years because she'd had it drilled into her that she was so beautiful that it was just a question of showing up to Hollywood  and she would be a star overnight, and it took a long time for reality to sink in.

Ultimately, I think parents owe it to their kids to be honest with them about their actual accomplishments and characteristics. I don't mean in the sense of discouraging someone who is passionate about doing something from doing it. I mean in the sense of don't tell your kids that they are physically beautiful or ugly when they're actually somewhere in the middle, and don't give them a warped sense of themselves. They need to understand the difference between "you are beautiful to me because of who you are" and "you are physically beautiful based on Hollywood standards."

[Qoass]

Dear Boyfriend:

Okay, fine; I am the one who said you didn't have to get me a present for our first Valentine's Day together but that four word e-mail with the typo you sent me instead?  Epic fail.

No love,

Qoass

[JTMacc99]

Oh dear.

I don't remember exactly when I learned that "don't make a big deal" doesn't mean "put in zero effort", but I do remember very clearly not to do it again.   

[Qoass]

Bingo.  Although I don't want to call him on it because then I'll feel like any nice gesture he makes will be because he doesn't want to be "in trouble" rather than because he's feeling it.  It feels like a no-win and that makes me even more unhappy.

[DeLurker]

@Qoass - watch this with him and tell him only guys as funny and oddly endearing as JO & SM can get by with it.

[Qoass]

Hah.  I just keep singing that Neil Young song to myself, "Doesn't mean that much to me to mean that much to you..."

[theredhead77]

Early / mid last year I was dating someone I met through work (his company is our customer. I'm not in sales, there were no ethical issues. We broke up about a year ago and I haven't had any communication with him since. While we were dating we agreed it would never impact business. Anyway, I had to contact him and one of his coworkers today. I compose my email, send it off. He calls my company cell almost right away. I didn't see it ring or that he called / left a message until I was leaving work. The message was work related and what he communicated in the email he sent me after (time stamps show he called then emailed). I'm kicking myself for missing that call. Meh. I thought I was over him. Why did he call instead of just emailing. 

[JTMacc99]

Today is going to be one of those days where I need either bury myself in work and forget about my personal life, or go all in and do things that I probably shouldn't do but want to and do things I don't want to do but definitely should do. And with a birthday looming, and the symbolism of another year passing, I suppose that's swirling around in there somewhere.  

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been in this sort of funk, which is a big part of why I share this stuff. It's nice to know we're not alone. I think I'll grab my work buddies today and just talk it out.  It reminds me of the fun movie Defending Your Life with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep.  I can be like Meryl Streep and just boldly do everything, or I can be Albert Brooks and just hem and haw and avoid things just because it's easier that way.

[DeLurker]

2 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

or go all in and do things that I probably shouldn't do but want to and do things I don't want to do but definitely should do.

Oh dear...never a good thing to be hit with this at work.  My advice, totally unsolicited and for the low low price of FREE!

Serpentine Shelly! Serpentine! - The In-Laws

[JTMacc99]

15 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

Oh dear...never a good thing to be hit with this at work.  My advice, totally unsolicited and for the low low price of FREE!

Serpentine Shelly! Serpentine! - The In-Laws

LOL. "Where the hell are the keys?"

That line definitely works with me today, at least I seem to be managing to dodge the bullets for the moment. 

[Moose135]

Look on the bright side, @JTMacc99, you could be one of the Academy Awards accountants... ;-)

[JTMacc99]

40 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

Look on the bright side, @JTMacc99, you could be one of the Academy Awards accountants... ;-)

Exactly. I think PWC does our audit work. I should give those kids some grief the next time I see them in front of me in the cafeteria.  Gotta work on a clever line.

[JTMacc99]

10 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

A "x0" birthday is just around the corner for me and I'm really struggling with my reality. Let's go boldly do everything.

If it wasn't for the part where sometimes last year I went boldly ahead and freaking Lucy pulled the football away from me, I'd be all in for bold.  

Having said that, I think it's time for me to do all three things I was talking about. I'm going to start with the least threatening one right now. 

[DeLurker]

5 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

I'm going to start with the least threatening one right now. 

If you are thinking of mixing patterns in your wardrobe, don't!  I don't care what the fashionistas say, no one should ever be that bold.

[JTMacc99]

2 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

If you are thinking of mixing patterns in your wardrobe, don't!  I don't care what the fashionistas say, no one should ever be that bold.

Hee!  No, I'm fairly conservatively dressed today except for the Stegosaurus socks.  Speaking of socks, my most excellent friend here at work who guides me through my rough days (and I through hers) gave me these today.  And I just fired off a note to my new friend, checking in with her.

Sometimes I need to remember that it doesn't have to be so freaking hard, and as long as I'm up front with how hard the rest of my shit is going to be this year with her, I think it's okay to enjoy some time with her. She's got a FULL plate herself, so there's not going to be a lot of jumping in with both feet on either side. :)

[JTMacc99]

On 2/27/2017 at 10:18 PM, theredhead77 said:

A "x0" birthday is just around the corner for me and I'm really struggling with my reality. Let's go boldly do everything.

Update: I went ahead and boldly did it all. So far, nothing terrible has resulted, and I will probably sleep better tonight. 

Update #2: I did sleep well last night until the cat jumped in bed with me and started climbing all over me and purring.  Which if you remove the word "cat" is pretty much all I'm looking for in life these days.

Edited March 1, 2017 by JTMacc99

[Bastet]

I will only fly first class, with a couple of exceptions over my many years that I instantly regretted, but I'm not sure I'd spring for it on a red eye.  That you'd be stuck in cattle car, without any options in between, does speak in favor of it, but I think it comes down to how likely you are to truly sleep through most of the flight.  Because, really, unless you're on a trans-Atlantic flight where first class gets you a bed rather than a seat, it's just a matter of how comfortable the upright seat in which you'll be trying to sleep is -- on a continental red eye, you'll get a wider seat, more attention, and better food (and free drinks) in first class, yes, but it's not like it is during a daytime flight; they expect you to sleep.  If you're reasonably assured of sleeping - and the wider seat isn't likely to have a big impact on that - you'll largely be sleeping through the amenities for which you'd spend the extra miles.  If you'll be awake, go ahead and opt for the better seat/food/drink/everything. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by Bastet

[theredhead77]

That's what I'm thinking too. I have no idea if I'll sleep and unfortunately my options in flights will result in zombiness either way. I figure 6 extra hours of vacation time is worth the red-eye. 

[ari333]

12 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Yes, I am quoting myself. I'm going boldly!

 I convinced my childhood BFF to go to a concert with me, that's been on my bucket list. I'm only going for the weekend and will be taking the red-eye. I have to fly across the country and am debating if I want to use an absurd amount of miles (45k) to fly first class during the red-eye portion to hopefully get some sleep. The return flight is 20k. The red-eye doesn't have business class and sadly it doesn't have any "preferred with more legroom" that aren't on an exit row. The return does and I'll pay the $35 or so for the extra leg room on the way back.

I say do it. It's a special occasion. And if you cant do it both ways, do it going TO the place  so you'll be rested and relaxed for your weekend or at least comfy if awake to enjoy amenities. I assume they still have those. . My 2 cents :-) HAVE FUN!

Edited March 4, 2017 by ari333

[theredhead77]

I meant to post this in chit-chat and requested someone move the post and the subsequent replies. I think I am going to do the first class. If I don't sleep I'll have great amenities and more space. If I do sleep, I sleep. Now I have to wait for my new AAvantage card to get here and hope the miles post before the seats sell. All in all it will take about 4-6 weeks but I don't fly until the end of August.

[JTMacc99]

Ah Monday morning... What will this week have in store for us? Which one of our various relationships, old and new, good and troubled, confounding or promising will take the lead for a while?

So exciting. :P

[Qoass]

Go ahead, @JTMacc99; you can have my turn.

[JTMacc99]

2 hours ago, Qoass said:

Go ahead, @JTMacc99; you can have my turn.

Heh. Sounds exactly like something I would do.