S03.E12: For Good

[legaleagle53]

14 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

Not to mention the fact that they examined Sam in an MRI and did a blood test yet somehow there was nothing that gave any indication she was an alien. To be able to do what she can do Sam simply cannot have the same anatomy as a human being.

And any lawyer on the planet would be able to get the confession thrown out of court on grounds of coercion. Or at least that's what I would say, if last season NCIS New Orleans didn't have the same sort of coerced confession of the bad guy happen and have it actually stick.

 

The problem is that we, as the audience, have always known who these people are. Bruce Wayne being Batman, Sam is Reign, Kara is Supergirl, James Olson is Guardian, Clark Kent is Superman, etc. we start from this position. This is the reason viewers think that secret identities are SO obvious and that other characters are SO stupid for not figuring it out. Believe it or not, it would take a massive logical leap for anyone to figure out these people's identities without direct evidence of it or them outright saying it, if Lena figured out Kara was Supergirl or Edge figured out James was Guardian or pretty much any given X character figuring out that Y is actually Z without say changing their outfits and using their powers on camera or outright telling them it would actually be extremely unrealistic, especially considering the sheer number of people that live in their respective cities.

Besides, Lena would not be the first Luthor who is pathologically unable to realize that somebody they know and see frequently is actually a Kryptonian superhero, even with some really really blatant evidence right in front of them.

But what makes it difficult to accept that Lena is so blind to Kara's being Supergirl is that you have someone like Cat Grant who can figure out someone's identity in about two seconds.  She sussed out Barry Allen as the Flash, for example -- and she'd only met him exactly once.  AND it's pretty clear to me, at least, that she knew Kara was Supergirl all along but for reasons known only to her, chose to play dumb about it.

I think what may happen is that Kara will choose to come clean about her double life to Lena, only to have Lena say something like, "Oh, you're Supergirl? I figured that out the moment you used your super-cold breath on me to slow my metabolism down long enough to work out an antidote for the poison.  An experience like that tends to heighten one's sensibilities in other ways!"  Those who remember Lois & Clark will recall that that's exactly how Lois finally figured out that Clark was Superman -- and that she was temporarily miffed that he hadn't trusted her enough to confide in her before she worked it out for herself.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

To be able to do what she can do Sam simply cannot have the same anatomy as a human being.

Does Kara have visibly different anatomy (excluding the invulnerability which would preclude certain tests, of course)?

Edited January 31, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[secnarf]

On 1/30/2018 at 5:59 PM, iMonrey said:

And we saw them donning these rings two episodes ago but there wasn't any dialogue to explain it gave them the power to fly. I just connected the dots and relied on the nice people on this forum to fill me in.

I don't know any of the history or details of what's in every (or any) comic book version. I really just rely on what is shown on the show and what I read on here afterwards...and to me, it was perfectly clear while watching that those rings give them the power of flight. They don't need to verbally tell me everything that is going on - I'd argue that that is actually a bad thing. It's better to show, than tell.

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Does Kara have visibly different anatomy (excluding the invulnerability which would preclude certain tests, of course)?

Well, an MRI shows you a heck of a lot more than what is otherwise "visible".

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, secnarf said:

Well, an MRI shows you a heck of a lot more than what is otherwise "visible".

Not if you're invulnerable.  The magnetic waves would simply bounce off you.

[secnarf]

22 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Not if you're invulnerable.  The magnetic waves would simply bounce off you.

That is not how an MRI works. It works on anything with a charge - and the medical MRIs tend to use hydrogen (in water).

[KirkB]

I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference one way or another. I may be wrong but I think the only real physiological difference between Kryptonians and humans is the fact their cells absorb solar energy to give them super strength, invulnerability, etc. I think they have the same basic, if not exact, organs as humans. So an MRI probably wouldn't show anything unusual. 

[immortalfrieza]

19 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Does Kara have visibly different anatomy (excluding the invulnerability which would preclude certain tests, of course)?

 

 

12 hours ago, KirkB said:

I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference one way or another. I may be wrong but I think the only real physiological difference between Kryptonians and humans is the fact their cells absorb solar energy to give them super strength, invulnerability, etc. I think they have the same basic, if not exact, organs as humans. So an MRI probably wouldn't show anything unusual. 

Considering they evolved on a different planet yeah, Kara and Sam's anatomy should differ from a human's significantly, even if by some cosmic fluke they ended up looking human. Now, I don't know anatomy more than the average person but even I can tell to be able to do what they do their body would have to be structured and function very differently from that of the average human, even the ability of their cells to store solar radiation aside. For instance, on the MRI there should be parts of their brains that humans don't have that allows them to control their heat and X-Ray vision and control their ability to fly.

21 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

But what makes it difficult to accept that Lena is so blind to Kara's being Supergirl is that you have someone like Cat Grant who can figure out someone's identity in about two seconds.  She sussed out Barry Allen as the Flash, for example -- and she'd only met him exactly once.  AND it's pretty clear to me, at least, that she knew Kara was Supergirl all along but for reasons known only to her, chose to play dumb about it.

Which would be an example of something extremely unrealistic. Unless Cat saw Kara using her abilities or saw her changing to Supergirl or both, she really has no good reason to suspect not to mention definitely know Kara is Supergirl over the what, 2 million other blond girls in National City? Then that's under the assumption that Supergirl is a blonde in the first place instead of wearing a wig or that she even has a secret identity in the first place. Same with Barry as The Flash and James Olson as The Guardian, she just knows these things because the writers wanted her to, not because she actually had any reason to think so. Cat also didn't know that Clark Kent is Superman despite working alongside him for years at the Daily Planet before the series started and seeing him in town at the exact same time he was around helping as Superman despite her so called famed ability to figure these sorts of things out.

Edited February 1, 2018 by immortalfrieza

[Rushmoras]

In season one and two Alex back-story was that she used to study and/or work in the field of biology. Season three, Alex was a medical doctor... Ok, then. Season four - Alex works for NASA (but, maybe it's not that of a stretch, considering she piloted a space ship) and so on, and so on. Alex back-story whatever serves the scene at the time. 

Anyways, Lexo-suit... um, yeah, but why? It's only the middle of the season, and it barely did anything. So, again, why? 

On the other hand, I like Sam's take on her condition. Hmm... maybe in the end they will do deus ex maxhina and separate Reign and Sam.

P.S. J'onn, shut the f... up about your top secret government organization. You are this close for selling tickets to tours around the place.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Rushmoras

[Trini]

2 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Anyways, Lexo-suit... um, yeah, but why? It's only the middle of the season, and it barely did anything. So, again, why? 

Yeah, cool! but huh? However, knowing this FX department, that suit will show up again.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

9 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

 

Considering they evolved on a different planet yeah, Kara and Sam's anatomy should differ from a human's significantly, even if by some cosmic fluke they ended up looking human. Now, I don't know anatomy more than the average person but even I can tell to be able to do what they do their body would have to be structured and function very differently from that of the average human, even the ability of their cells to store solar radiation aside. For instance, on the MRI there should be parts of their brains that humans don't have that allows them to control their heat and X-Ray vision and control their ability to fly.

 

Perhaps we all have the same parts in our brains but Kryptonians' brains are triggered by a yellow sun. Terrans haven't found their trigger yet, if it exists! 

Edited February 2, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Perhaps we all have the same parts in our brain but Kryptonians' are triggered by a yellow sun. Terrans haven't found their trigger yet, if it exists! 

Supposedly, ours would be triggered by an even more intense sun, such as a white or violet-colored one (blue is ruled out because blue solar radiation is fatal to any male of any species and because it didn't affect Imra, Livewire, or Psi that way and in fact de-triggered Supergirl's).

[CletusMusashi]

Back to the issue of Kara beating up the security guard... I understand why  people feel she was a bit rough on him, and I'm not even sure which side of the issue I stand on. Mainly because I don't really care. He's a nameless red shirt, and being smashed unconscious on TV has no unpleasant side effects or after effects anyway. What I did think about it, though... 

I don't think we've seen Kara dial her powers back well enough before to take out a human without looking obviously "super." Due to the problem of witnesses, she used (for her) absolutely minimal force to simply evade his grapple and tap an elbow into his head. This was a reaction that could very plausibly be done by a regular human who's had some self defense traning. I like the fact that she's finally fought enough super-humanoids that she has a prety good idea of what moves work and can dilute them down to fight humans, without having to pick them up and throw them twenty feet, or grab their fist in mid air and crush it. 

Kara Danvers, rather than Supergirl, finally being allowed to fight her way out of a paper bag opens up the way for occasional plot resolutions that do not involve having to run into the next room, change clothing, and say "Kara just called me. And she's in the bathroom. And we're not identical, at all..."

Edited February 3, 2018 by CletusMusashi

[legaleagle53]

11 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

I don't think we've seen Kara dial her powers back well enough before to take out a human without looking obviously "super." Due to the problem of witnesses, she used (for her) absolutely minimal force to simply evade his grapple and tap an elbow into his head. This was a reaction that could very plausibly be done by a regular human who's had some self defense training. I like the fact that she's finally fought enough super-humanoids that she has a pretty good idea of what moves work and can dilute them down to fight humans, without having to pick them up and throw them twenty feet, or grab their fist in mid air and crush it. 

We've never seen her make a conscious effort to hold back when fighting a human, but both she and Superman would have taught themselves long ago to pull their punches, since they could otherwise kill a non-superpowered opponent if they used full force.

[Perfect Xero]

15 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Back to the issue of Kara beating up the security guard... I understand why  people feel she was a bit rough on him, and I'm not even sure which side of the issue I stand on. Mainly because I don't really care. He's a nameless red shirt, and being smashed unconscious on TV has no unpleasant side effects or after effects anyway.

I think the issue for me is less with her being "rough" with him, as that's the sort of thing you might well see Oliver or Alex do. It's attaching the "don't grab women" message to it. Like, when people talk about grabbing women, I feel like a security guard grabbing the arm of someone trying to enter a place they are not supposed to be isn't the example that most people have in mind.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 1/29/2018 at 9:30 PM, Trini said:

So previously, Sam wasn't harmed by putting her hand in boiling water, but now she can get pierced by needles? Also did she forget about that, and the spaceship her (adopted) mother showed her?

Apparently ancestry.com or 23&me doesn't exist on Earth 38.

On 1/30/2018 at 7:40 AM, Winston Wolfe said:

Lena in that Black dress makes me wanna marry Katie McGrath even more.  I'd draw a bath and cook dinner for her every single night.

Between the ridiculously high heels that Lena wore all episode and that low cut dress at the fund raiser, Lena really wasn't dressed for running of any kind.  Not that I didn't enjoy the black dress. :)

On a visual effects sidenote, the CGI of Edge's car vaulting into the air and exploding was really, really bad.  Guess they blew the special budget for this episode on the  Lexo suit.

And where was Saturn Girl ?  Imra is so hot, she definitely needed some screen time.

[immortalfrieza]

On 2/3/2018 at 3:29 PM, Perfect Xero said:

I think the issue for me is less with her being "rough" with him, as that's the sort of thing you might well see Oliver or Alex do. It's attaching the "don't grab women" message to it. Like, when people talk about grabbing women, I feel like a security guard grabbing the arm of someone trying to enter a place they are not supposed to be isn't the example that most people have in mind.

I'm pretty sure the whole "don't grab women" thing was just a 2 second snide comment that some viewers, like usual, are blowing way out of proportion when it was really supposed to be nothing.

[Perfect Xero]

2 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

I'm pretty sure the whole "don't grab women" thing was just a 2 second snide comment that some viewers, like usual, are blowing way out of proportion when it was really supposed to be nothing.

I don't think that they sat there are wrote the entire episode around getting that line in or anything, but I highly doubt that it was just a random choice of words.

[immortalfrieza]

9 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

I don't think that they sat there are wrote the entire episode around getting that line in or anything, but I highly doubt that it was just a random choice of words.

Random choice of words? No. Snarky comment by Kara to get a giggle out of the audience that otherwise meant absolutely nothing whatsoever much less a genuine attempt to comment on inappropriately touching a woman? Yes! The fact that as you put it: "when people talk about grabbing women, I feel like a security guard grabbing the arm of someone trying to enter a place they are not supposed to be isn't the example that most people have in mind" is part of the joke if not all of it.

[stan4]

On 1/29/2018 at 8:32 PM, statsgirl said:

 

Did we know that Alex is an MD? I know she worked on people who were hurt at DEO but did we know she was an MD doing research?  I do like it more than trapping Alex in a relationship as she was last season.

 

Which would put her, without all the DEO training, firmly in her mid thirties by season 3.  MD/PhD with outside research work and residency training would take 10 years after college.  If she was in her 40s, I'd buy all this nonsense way more.

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, stan4 said:

Which would put her, without all the DEO training, firmly in her mid thirties by season 3.  MD/PhD with outside research work and residency training would take 10 years after college.  If she was in her 40s, I'd buy all this nonsense way more.

That's problematic, however, since Alex is only supposed to be a year or two older than Kara at most, and Kara's only about 26-27.

[stan4]

14 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

That's problematic, however, since Alex is only supposed to be a year or two older than Kara at most, and Kara's only about 26-27.

Hence...nonsense.

 

I respected Alex enough without all this extra implausible silliness.

Edited February 10, 2018 by stan4