The Soviet Union is No More: Casting News, Story Arc Info

[Erin9]

46 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

They'll send her off to Mandyland...

lol....I haven’t heard that in a long time. mandyland, mandyville.....

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, Erin9 said:

True, we really don’t know the context, but it was hardly complimentary. I’m not really sure Paige is in any position to assess how much she is or isn’t like Philip. Or even her mother.

I love how she's saying it kind of apologetically too. Like in context she might be totally condescending. "You see, Dad, you've never had to face hardships like I have, and you don't care about people like I do...." Of course we have no idea what he's saying to her there, but presumably he's talking about his experience as a spy. (Which is still ongoing.)

The one possibly good thing about that is Philip is really at his best when he's irritated with Paige. Like his "If she said one more thing about nonviolent resistance I was going to punch her in the face." Elizabeth will get impatient with Paige when she's not behaving correctly, but nobody expresses downright irritation with her like Philip. Plus he dotes on her otherwise, so you know he's giving her every chance and he she still gets on his last nerve.

4 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

However, we don't see her doing much of anything other than following Liz. 

And even when we see her following Liz and obsessing about the job, it's never about what Paige thinks she's actually doing. They literally just skipped ahead 3 years and now it's understood that Paige has the same pov as Elizabeth for some reason. With a character like Hans we at least could assume from the context that this was a South African man who was against Apartheid in his own country and that's why he was working with the Soviets. With Paige there's not even that. It's all about what it's going to be like when she's a great spy.

I was listening to a podcast yesterday that happened to talk about prosecuting the Mafia and it made me think of her. The person said that the thing about people in the Mafia that prosecutors like is that they're joiners. They want to be part of a group. So it's very possible to flip them. They go from lying for the Mafia to telling the truth for the State. I think they've explicitly laid out that this is who Paige is. If Elizabeth was out of the picture it would not be difficult at all to her on the US side again, now as an important informer instead of a spy.

[Juliegirlj]

The episode titled “Jennings, Elizabeth “ at first made me think it sounded like a death certificate. However, Phillip’s intense desire to assimilate into American life makes me think he will ultimately be the fall guy to save Paige and Elizabeth. 

[Dev F]

For those concerned about the lack of follow-up to Elizabeth's crime scene, I think we may finally be getting it in next week's episode. The promo shows Stan and Dennis in the vault talking about an urgent mission in Chicago, with some shots of a bulletin board behind them. You can see the board more clearly in this full-season promo if you freeze frame at around 0:55.

A number of the images on the left side of the board appear related to Liz's Altheon burglary. In the upper left, there's a photo of the outside of the warehouse (note the Altheon truck in the foreground); at the top toward the middle is a picture of what looks like Altheon headquarters. Some of the other images on the left side could also be related; there are some crime scene photos of bodies and shell casings and what may be one of the plastic-wrapped pallets Elizabeth couldn't get into.

And then in the full-season promo you get more of Aderholt's dialogue, in which he laments, "The Russians are sitting down with us in public, negotiating this big treaty, but behind our backs they're stealing our weapons and our technology" (and the first part of it is synched to the video of the vault conversation, so I don't think they're just dubbing in a speech from a different episode). Thus, it seems likely that the FBI's warehouse burglary investigation is going to come up next week.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Dev F

[scrb]

Elizabeth was upset that US textbooks didn't mention the Soviet role in WWII.

Claudia points out 27 million Soviets died in WWII compared to just 400k for Americans, as if having more casualties is inherently more heroic.

The Soviets certainly played a big role in defeating the Nazis but it was weather and their willingness to send their people to absorb Nazi munitions which led to the horrific results in the Eastern Front.

Now that's not to say people like Claudia and Elizabeth are brainwashed.  Their parents knew that war was existential for the Soviets.  If the Nazis prevailed, well they knew what happened to other countries that the Nazis defeated.

I guess the right way to frame it is as a sacrifice, as opposed to heroism in serving as cannon fodder.  But what was at stake was whether their grandchildren and later generations spoke German or Russian.

After winning this Great Patriotic War, they were subjected to Stalin's worst excesses so the Soviet Union wasn't worth saving.  And now, after the USSR fell, the kleptocrats made themselves rich and relegated Russia to oil and gas extraction and hacking.  

It would have been horrible for the world if Germany prevailed in WWII but not because the Soviet Union would have disappeared.  

Edited April 27, 2018 by scrb

[Ellaria]

On 4/26/2018 at 8:13 PM, Dev F said:

Thus, it seems likely that the FBI's warehouse burglary investigation is going to come up next week.

Great post! I hope that the warehouse burglary comes up. Too much sketchy stuff has gone down in DC leading up to the summit. And no, saying that law enforcement/investigative forces are stretched thin is not a valid argument, IMO. (In real life that may well be the case but not in TV land.) Some of her recent killings have come through desperation or poor planning/preparation. That should come back into play.

[Anela]

I saw an outline for next week's episode, stating that Stan and Henry spend some quality time together. Philip and Elizabeth come together in a perilous operation unlike any they've had before. 

Tomorrow night,  a sudden assignment pulls Elizabeth away from her family at a crucial moment. Aderholt approaches Stan about an urgent investigation. This is from Spectrum's guide. 

[sistermagpie]

I've wondered with the synopsis of this week's ep (crucial moment to be called away from one's family) if it's not Thanksgiving so Henry's home and Elizabeth goes out of town for the mission rather than see him. Philip has Thanksgiving dinner with the kids at Stan's, maybe. Then things go bad on her mission (maybe Marilyn gets killed even) and Elizabeth calls Philip for help so he has to go out of town too. That would leave Henry's in Falls Church without his parents, so there'd be reason for him to see Stan. Maybe he was going to do something with Philip and Philip asks Stan to do it instead since he has to go out of town.

ETA: I will, however, be annoyed if the one time Henry's at home all his scenes are with Stan instead of Philip.

Edited May 1, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Anela]

On 4/17/2018 at 10:16 PM, Umbelina said:

From the Elizabeth thread...the final show titles until the end of The Americans forever.

Speculation and spoilers anyone?

• "Mr. and Mrs. Teacup"  Roxann  Dawson Peter Ackerman April 18,
• "The Great Patriotic War"  Thomas Schlamme Hilary Bettis April 25,
• "Rififi"  Kevin Bray Stephen Schiff & Justin Weinberger May 2,
• "Harvest" Stefan Schwartz Sarah Nolen May 9,
• "The Summit"  Sylvain White Joshua Brand May 16,
• "Jennings, Elizabeth" Chris Long Joel Fields & Joe Weisberg May 23,
• "START" Chris Long Joel Fields & Joe Weisberg May 30,

 

On 4/18/2018 at 10:54 AM, All That Jazz said:

START is an acronym for Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, signed in the early '90's about when the Soviet Union collapsed. There were also SALT (Strategic Arms Limitation Talks) conferences around the time period of the show. Not a happy time for Elizabeth.

That's probably what it is. My first thought was of it being the FBI sitting across from them, telling them to start with their confessions. 

[Erin9]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I've wondered with the synopsis of this week's ep (crucial moment to be called away from one's family) if it's not Thanksgiving so Henry's home and Elizabeth goes out of town for the mission rather than see him. Philip has Thanksgiving dinner with the kids at Stan's, maybe. Then things go bad on her mission (maybe Marilyn gets killed even) and Elizabeth calls Philip for help so he has to go out of town too. That would leave Henry's in Falls Church without his parents, so there'd be reason for him to see Stan. Maybe he was going to do something with Philip and Philip asks Stan to do it instead since he has to go out of town.

ETA: I will, however, be annoyed if the one time Henry's at home all his scenes are with Stan instead of Philip.

Me too. I never much cared for the Henry/Stan relationship. I always wanted him to interact more with his family. 

[Umbelina]

I honestly think one reason they kept giving him scenes with Stan is because Noah is so tall, so next to him, "Henry" still looked smaller.

He was already taller than Elizabeth, and closing in on Philip.  I think they should have just gone with it.  Sometimes boys grow fast.

[Erin9]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I honestly think one reason they kept giving him scenes with Stan is because Noah is so tall, so next to him, "Henry" still looked smaller.

He was already taller than Elizabeth, and closing in on Philip.  I think they should have just gone with it.  Sometimes boys grow fast.

I think you might be right. That seems so stupid to me- but there was so much talk about how tall Henry had gotten, that might well be the reason behind all the Stan scenes. Yes- they should have just gone with it. It happens. 

[sistermagpie]

I was also thinking about the  scenes with Stan. Seems like a lot of the time it was a handy way for Henry to exposit where he was at. Often his parents had concluded the basics on their own but they made Stan the guy he talked to about sex etc. They also I think just found it amusing which is frustrating because they're not that great. 

If they keep Henry true to his previous character he's very closed mouthed about other people. But the one thing the Henry/Philip scenes have given us is that Henry is aware of Philip as someone who has problems. So that changes the dynamic. He doesn't just look to him for his own needs. It would at least be interesting to contrast that with Paige who still demands constant attention while also claiming she's not being given freedom. 

The characters don't know the show is ending but we do and no matter how important some think Stan is to Henry it's better if they use this time on the father and son who are maybe nearing the end of their days together. The show obviously means them to be close. 

[Erin9]

This may not make much sense, but in some ways I feel that Henry and Philip have a closer, more honest and real relationship than Paige and Elizabeth. Despite the fact that Philip is a spy and Henry doesn’t know, and we see so little of the relationship. They seem to interact like a normal parent/kid, talking about normal things....with that one, albeit huge, piece of knowledge that separates them. They seem to understand each other well- again with the spy exception. They seem genuinely close, whereas Paige and Elizabeth think they they are, but I don’t see it 

I think my head will explode if Stan spends lots of time with Henry. Just no. It should be with his parents and Paige. Because this is coming to an end. But I never did care for S/H’s scenes. Seemed a waste of limited Henry airtime. They annoyed me. But I could see the writers loving the irony that the characters waste the limited time they have because they don’t know what we know. Sort of like Mischa’s wasted trip.

Paige and Elizabeth’s relationship is entirely wrapped up in spying. As if that’s all there is. It’s a strange mix of parent/child and trainer/ trainee. There’s something really messed up about it to me. And it’s been headed in that direction ever since Elizabeth agreed with the centre that Paige should know the truth. It’s full of half truths, out right lies, mixed in as some attempt at bonding. But the bonding is also supposed to make her more passionate about the cause- it serves the dual purpose of Paige “understanding” Elizabeth and making her more invested in the cause. ( But Paige really doesn’t understand....not the cause, spying, Russia, not her mother or her father. She just thinks she does.) 

For all that Philip has never told Paige, he’s trying to be pretty real with her now, despite her lack of understanding and appreciation. It is a much more honest relationship than she has with her mom imo. At the very least he has always wanted HER best interests to be served. Not the cause’s. Not the centre’s. Not Elizabeth’s desire to bond via spying. And I hope she learns to appreciate him before this is over. Because her lack of appreciation is pretty sad. 

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

This may not make much sense, but in some ways I feel that Henry and Philip have a closer, more honest and real relationship than Paige and Elizabeth. Despite the fact that Philip is a spy and Henry doesn’t know, and we see so little of the relationship. They seem to interact like a normal parent/kid, talking about normal things....with that one, albeit huge, piece of knowledge that separates them. They seem to understand each other well- again with the spy exception. They seem genuinely close, whereas Paige and Elizabeth think they they are, but I don’t see it 

I get the exact same impression, as strange as it sounds. Though I don't think it's completely unintentional. Elizabeth started "assessing" Paige in the guise of taking an interest in her church stuff in S3 and Paige fell for it. Not that there's anything wrong with bonding through a shared interest--I was just watching the very start of S1-Henry's first line is about hockey, Philip also talks about hockey in his first scene. But it does really seem like their conversations now seem like people who are pretty close. There's a huge secret between them, but they're also people who seem comfortable with keeping secrets themselves. Where as Paige and Elizabeth are so intense yet we see Elizabeth blatantly lying about things, Paige not being very aware of anything about Elizabeth beyond what she wants to know for her own purposes. Both Elizabeth and Paige insist on Elizabeth being in the role of the authority figure that Paige either tries to impress or rebels against. If the two of them actually wound up continuing to spy for years I think the relationship would get totally toxic. They both demand too much of each other, I don't now. Plus there's the whole thing of Elizabeth trying to make Paige into a Russian person when she can't become one.

All of which makes me really *want* Henry to be know the secret about his father so he can see him more clearly. He seems like he'd be interested in the person and the experience. Plus he's older and seems more mature than Paige was when she found out. He just seems like he'd have a very different reaction--hey, maybe he'd even ask Philip some basic questions! It seems like they might just be trying to recreate Philip's situation where he realizes, after his father's dead, that he didn't know him. But Philip was 6 when his father died. Plus he already has a son who never knew him.

I guess the showrunners think Elizabeth/Paige is amazing because they focus on it so much and even claim that this season they're bonding in some way we've never seen before (though to me it all seems very familiar). I really don't get why they'd set up them as a contrast to Philip and Henry and then only have interest in some afternoon that Henry spends with Stan instead. I mean, it seems like they've established that Philip and Henry have made an effort to talk a lot since he went to school but that seems like all the more reason to give us something to lose here. Don't just establish that Henry and Philip talk in person or on the phone regularly and say that's why it's more interesting to show a rare moment with Stan. The kid doesn't live at home. He needs quality time with. his. father.

I would hope they'd for one maybe use a Stan/Henry scene to illuminate the relationship with Philip but so far it's always been used for bro-talk and surprising admissions from Stan, like the one about not trusting anyone. It still seems like something that just amuses them and they just kind of forgot that there's no parental relationships on screen. They even introduced an interesting thing to deal with with the tuition story. If Henry's picked up on friction between his parents as it seems he might from the preview, and he also knows about the money issues, he might be forgiving about Philip leaving home to help Elizabeth.

[Erin9]

@sistermagpie

I would love for Henry to know the secret while Philip is still here to talk to. IA- Philip already has the kid who never knew him in Mischa. We don’t need a repeat in Henry. Plus- I want to see a different reaction from Paige. Or- Paige and Henry talking about it. Not that I hold my breath on it. Henry has never been a priority. 

Showing more Henry with his family in the back half makes so much sense. Life as he knows it WILL END. So, let’s it before it’s gone. It needn’t be just missed opportunities. 

I already see P and E’s relationship as rather toxic. And more messed up. There’s something off about all this bonding/spying that they’re doing. Maybe it’s the manipulation involved while calling it bonding. That may have been the word I was searching for earlier. Sure Elizabeth wants Paige to know really her, know where she’s (both Elizabeth and Paige) from- she also wants her to identify more as Russian to invest her more in Elizabeth’s cause.

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, Erin9 said:

I already see P and E’s relationship as rather toxic. And more messed up.

You're right. I should have said that over time the two of them might actually get that it was toxic because right now they're both in denial! Paige is already accusing Elizabeth of trying to boss her around, but she's doing it while at the same time trying to crawl up Elizabeth's ass and take up residence. It's funny, in the second season Paige was loudly announcing that she just wanted to go to college and get away from this "mad house" and Henry ignored her, but Henry is of course the one who just did that. And not, it doesn't seem, because he thought it was a mad house.

13 hours ago, Erin9 said:

There’s something off about all this bonding/spying that they’re doing. Maybe it’s the manipulation involved while calling it bonding. That may have been the word I was searching for earlier. Sure Elizabeth wants Paige to know really her, know where she’s (both Elizabeth and Paige) from- she also wants her to identify more as Russian to invest her more in Elizabeth’s cause.

Yeah, it's forever interesting the way Henry doesn't know the secret yet seems to interact honestly with Philip while Elizabeth and Paige are bonded by a secret yet are constantly lying. Both of them are invested in a version of Elizabeth where she is all-knowing and all-powerful and good and Paige is on the way to being those things. This requires lots of lying and posturing on both their parts. 

[Novel8]

You find that interesting? I thought the quick scene of Phillip talking to Stan and saying something like, "I'm the guy you have been looking....." Does anyone know how many more episodes are due to the end?

[Umbelina]

7 hours ago, Novel8 said:

You find that interesting? I thought the quick scene of Phillip talking to Stan and saying something like, "I'm the guy you have been looking....." Does anyone know how many more episodes are due to the end?

There are 4 episodes left.

727 "Harvest" [11] Stefan Schwartz Sarah Nolen May 9, 

738 "The Summit" [12] Sylvain White  Joshua Brand May 16, 

749 "Jennings, Elizabeth" [13] Chris Long Joel Fields & Joe Weisberg May 23,

7510 "START" [14] Chris Long Joel Fields & Joe Weisberg May 30,

[BingeyKohan]

There was a frame in the official season 6 trailer I still can’t figure out. It was a close up of a sinister looking man with blood splatters on his face who appeared to be holding a gun. I think he has to either be Harvest (from next week)or the man that Sofia exchanged looks with before she was led out of her place of work. Although we’ve never seen that man again (I believe he and Sofia were implied to be falling in love at least she believed that) so they’d have to do some ‘previously on’ gymnastics to reintroduce him. Any theories about who it is? Are there even worse illegals than P and E they don’t even know about?

[hellmouse]

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

There was a frame in the official season 6 trailer I still can’t figure out. It was a close up of a sinister looking man with blood splatters on his face who appeared to be holding a gun. I think he has to either be Harvest (from next week)or the man that Sofia exchanged looks with before she was led out of her place of work. Although we’ve never seen that man again (I believe he and Sofia were implied to be falling in love at least she believed that) so they’d have to do some ‘previously on’ gymnastics to reintroduce him. Any theories about who it is? Are there even worse illegals than P and E they don’t even know about?

I just rewatched it - I think that man is the Harvest guy. He kind of matches the picture we saw briefly that Aderholt showed Stan of the Chicago illegal aka Harvest. 

But it made me wonder what (or who?!) Philip is using that axe on in the parking garage, just after the clip of the blood-spattered man. God, I hope it's not a body!

[BingeyKohan]

1 hour ago, hellmouse said:

I just rewatched it - I think that man is the Harvest guy. He kind of matches the picture we saw briefly that Aderholt showed Stan of the Chicago illegal aka Harvest. 

But it made me wonder what (or who?!) Philip is using that axe on in the parking garage, just after the clip of the blood-spattered man. God, I hope it's not a body!

Just rewatched too. It looks like there are almost no scenes in the season trailer from any episodes beyond the next one, which means that the next episode is a major turning point (and/or the remaining episodes weren’t final by the time the trailer was cut) That also means we never see Elizabeth in any scenes in any preview beyond the Chicago mission, unless you count the trailer’s opening scene of Stan watching what looks like Elizabeth’s car coming home late at night - if that’s a new scene (meaning new to season 6) and it’s her driving the car then at least she makes it home from Chicago. 

Anyway if that’s Harvest he looks scary. I guess if he’s a male Elizabeth that shouldn’t be surprising but it makes me think he doesn’t want to be rescued. Or at least the trailer makes him seem oppositional to P and E.

[Umbelina]

Who else would he be killing besides FBI agents?  

It would be lovely if this KGB/FBI stand off wraps up soon and we get to see a ton of wonderful aftermath!

That would explain Jennings, Elizabeth in three weeks too. 

With that title, they either have to be booking her, burying her, or admitting her to the hospital.  With only a week to go after that?  I doubt it's a red herring.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Umbelina

[hellmouse]

It could also be the KGB going through a list of their agents - maybe to see who's been compromised by the Harvest situation? Who might need to be exfiltrated? 

Or it could KGB leadership figuring out who was involved in trying to stop/derail the summit?

It could be a list of the whole Jennings family, and Elizabeth just comes first alphabetically. 

If it's the FBI, that means the whole family is blown. It could be the very last thing in the episode - finding her name on a list and Stan and Aderholt asking themselves if it could really be. 

Agh!!

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, hellmouse said:

It could also be the KGB going through a list of their agents - maybe to see who's been compromised by the Harvest situation? Who might need to be exfiltrated?

I imagine that the Centre would generally refer to illegals by codenames rather than cover identities, so there's probably not a dossier with "Jennings, Elizabeth" on the folder tab or anything like that. (That's actually a fun element of tradecraft that I wish The Americans hadn't abandoned early on; the operatives are constantly referring to sensitive assets and fellow KGB officers by their real names, when they really should be using codenames for nearly everyone.)

Edited May 4, 2018 by Dev F

[BingeyKohan]

14 hours ago, Umbelina said:

It would be lovely if this KGB/FBI stand off wraps up soon and we get to see a ton of wonderful aftermath!

Knowing that next week (Harvest) has to have the Chicago-set chase scenes between the FBI and P & E that were in the official season 6 trailer, I don't think they'd give us two big FBI chases within the span of 4 episodes. So you're probably right on some level. Also, knowing that all along this has been a show about a marriage and a family I think after next week's big chase sequence through the streets of Chicago the remaining confrontations will be much smaller and more interpersonal (even though likely still violent) - as in they'll happen in private homes, like Claudia's safe house, or the home of either the Jennings or the Beemans.

[Anela]

16 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Who else would he be killing besides FBI agents?  

It would be lovely if this KGB/FBI stand off wraps up soon and we get to see a ton of wonderful aftermath!

That would explain Jennings, Elizabeth in three weeks too. 

With that title, they either have to be booking her, burying her, or admitting her to the hospital.  With only a week to go after that?  I doubt it's a red herring.

 

15 hours ago, hellmouse said:

It could also be the KGB going through a list of their agents - maybe to see who's been compromised by the Harvest situation? Who might need to be exfiltrated? 

Or it could KGB leadership figuring out who was involved in trying to stop/derail the summit?

It could be a list of the whole Jennings family, and Elizabeth just comes first alphabetically. 

If it's the FBI, that means the whole family is blown. It could be the very last thing in the episode - finding her name on a list and Stan and Aderholt asking themselves if it could really be. 

Agh!!

That's what I thought, too. First I pictured the FBI interrogating her, then I pictured them just realizing who she really is - the woman from the first season, who got away. 

The way Philip looks in the preview for next week, I think he only tells Stan that his business is failing. I think he'd look a lot worse if he were just about to admit to being Russian. 

[Anela]

Have we seen Claudia tell Elizabeth, that Stan needs to be taken care of? I've just seen that in the teaser.

I hope elizabeth doesn't have aids. 

[Dev F]

14 minutes ago, Anela said:

Have we seen Claudia tell Elizabeth, that Stan needs to be taken care of? I've just seen that in the teaser.

The promo guys cheesed that bit real bad, actually. It's from one of Claudia and Elizabeth's conversations in "Mr. and Mrs. Teacup":

"Something else came up. You reported that Stan Beeman's wife talked about a case he was still working in Counterintelligence. It involved a Soviet couple."
"Mm-hmm."
"One of our couriers went over to the Americans. Defected with his wife and her child. It could be them. See if you can find out. If it is, he has to be dealt with."

[Erin9]

10 hours ago, Anela said:

 

That's what I thought, too. First I pictured the FBI interrogating her, then I pictured them just realizing who she really is - the woman from the first season, who got away. 

The way Philip looks in the preview for next week, I think he only tells Stan that his business is failing. I think he'd look a lot worse if he were just about to admit to being Russian. 

It probably is that. I really am tired of the business story. It just seems like there are more important things for Philip to do. Instead, we get to hear everyone act like he’s a failure in some way or the other. 

Maybe I haven’t read it, but I don’t recall the show runners talking much about Philip’s story this season either from spying with Oleg or the business. 

[Anela]

5/16: With the arms control summit underway, a shocking revelation from Philip throws Elizabeth and her work into turmoil; Stan follows a dangerous hunch. 

[Anela]

In the preview, it looks like Henry is freaked out, in the passenger seat of a car, with his mother in the driver's seat? I just see light-coloured hair. And someone pushing a picture of Elizabeth across a table. 

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Anela said:

In the preview, it looks like Henry is freaked out, in the passenger seat of a car, with his mother in the driver's seat? I just see light-coloured hair. And someone pushing a picture of Elizabeth across a table. 

That's not Henry. It's the intern Elizabeth's stalking and looks like trying to start an affair with. Somebody's definitely pushing her picture across a table, though. Doesn't look like Stan's hand but somebody wearing a wedding ring? They might be asking somebody to say whether she's the same person they've seen elsewhere, or telling them to look out for her. Maybe it's Renee on a mission from Stan or something.

Edited May 10, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Anela]

10 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

That's not Henry. It's the intern Elizabeth's stalking and looks like trying to start an affair with. Somebody's definitely pushing her picture across a table, though. Doesn't look like Stan's hand but somebody wearing a wedding ring? They might be asking somebody to say whether she's the same person they've seen elsewhere, or telling them to look out for her. Maybe it's Renee on a mission from Stan or something.

So Elizabeth might just be coming right out and threatening him now? Instead of hitting on him. He looked scared. 

Ack, the board keeps doing weird things when I post. 

[Dev F]

13 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Somebody's definitely pushing her picture across a table, though. Doesn't look like Stan's hand but somebody wearing a wedding ring? They might be asking somebody to say whether she's the same person they've seen elsewhere, or telling them to look out for her. Maybe it's Renee on a mission from Stan or something.

I'm willing to bet they're showing the picture to Curtis, the member of Gregory's gang whom the FBI apprehended in season 1. According to IMDb, he makes an appearance in next week's episode.

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, Anela said:

So Elizabeth might just be coming right out and threatening him now? Instead of hitting on him. He looked scared. 

 

It's her way nowadays. 

4 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I'm willing to bet they're showing the picture to Curtis, the member of Gregory's gang whom the FBI apprehended in season 1. According to IMDb, he makes an appearance in next week's episode.

Oh man. Yeah, Curtis would know her well, probably. She often came to see Gregory without disguise. I loved it when he flipped on Gregory.

ETA: Kind of interesting how close Stan was to the whole Martha thing and yet it seems like all the clues that are leading him to the Illegals come from Elizabeth's actions and choices. Well, not all--Philip's demeanor in this ep obviously pinged his radar and Henry talked about both his parents running out of the house. But it still seems fitting that Elizabeth who's so disappointed in Philip constantly might bring down the whole network. 

I hope Claudia goes down too. And Paige does something to push it over the edge.

Edited May 10, 2018 by sistermagpie

[LMM]

It looks like Elizabeth grabs the intern to keep him in the car, he looks scared, then later we see a shot of a newspaper unfolding with maybe a microphone in it. 

Maybe intern reported a suspicious person, he was asked to set a meeting to record, Elizabeth suspects something’s off, and grabs him to uncover the mic?

And I agree with the guess that Stan shows Elizabeth’s picture to Curtis. 

[hellmouse]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

1 hour ago, Anela said:

In the preview, it looks like Henry is freaked out, in the passenger seat of a car, with his mother in the driver's seat? I just see light-coloured hair. And someone pushing a picture of Elizabeth across a table. 

That's not Henry. It's the intern Elizabeth's stalking and looks like trying to start an affair with. Somebody's definitely pushing her picture across a table, though. Doesn't look like Stan's hand but somebody wearing a wedding ring? They might be asking somebody to say whether she's the same person they've seen elsewhere, or telling them to look out for her. Maybe it's Renee on a mission from Stan or something.

In the preview we see Stan looking at a picture of him & Sandra with Philip & Elizabeth. The picture of Elizabeth that is pushed across the table has been cut out from that picture (you can see a hint of Philip on the left margin). So if it isn't Stan, then he's let someone else know about his suspicions.

[hellmouse]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

1 hour ago, Dev F said:

I'm willing to bet they're showing the picture to Curtis, the member of Gregory's gang whom the FBI apprehended in season 1. According to IMDb, he makes an appearance in next week's episode.

Oh man. Yeah, Curtis would know her well, probably. She often came to see Gregory without disguise. I loved it when he flipped on Gregory.

Yikes. I wonder if Curtis ever met Philip. 

You inspired me to check IMDB for Father Andrei, and he will be in the final two episodes. The FBI is going to be questioning Russian priests. He's seen Philip & Elizabeth without their disguises. Double yikes!

[BingeyKohan]

48 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

You inspired me to check IMDB for Father Andrei, and he will be in the final two episodes. The FBI is going to be questioning Russian priests. He's seen Philip & Elizabeth without their disguises. Double yikes!

Maybe it will be a Sound of Music-esque getaway with the priest helping them escape their pursuers (here, FBI in place of Nazis)!

[Umbelina]

Yeah, Curtis thought he was in a drug gang, not working for the KGB. 

So glad it's all coming together, and YAY if that intern reported suspicious contact! 

[JennyMominFL]

Elizabeth doesn;'t have AIDS. I assume people are  talking about the mark on her face. Its very very rare for women with aids to get Kaposi sarcoma... That's men that usually get that

[Umbelina]

It was part of her disguise for the Chicago job, nothing more, nothing less.

[hellmouse]

A lot of the scenes in the preview for The Summit are from previous episodes. But I don't remember the fire scene. Does anyone remember that in a previous episode?

Elizabeth is in a large room and there is a big rectangular shaped fire in front of her. I was thinking maybe she is burning everything from their garage because they've found out the FBI is on to their garage hideouts. But maybe it's from an old episode?

Edited May 11, 2018 by hellmouse

[Ellaria]

7 hours ago, hellmouse said:

A lot of the scenes in the preview for The Summit are from previous episodes. But I don't remember the fire scene. Does anyone remember that in a previous episode?

Elizabeth is in a large room and there is a big rectangular shaped fire in front of her. I was thinking maybe she is burning everything from their garage because they've found out the FBI is on to their garage hideouts. But maybe it's from an old episode?

I don't remember the fire scene either but I'm not good with these details.

Not a lot of new scenes in the preview. Hoping that means that "you know what" is finally hitting the fan. The scenes of Stan first holding the photo of the four of them and then sliding the shot of Elizabeth - seemingly cut from that photo - across a desk in an interrogation is foreboding. I can't wait to see his final confrontation with Philip.

[BingeyKohan]

For all the callbacks we’ve seen to the pilot I also think the season 1 finale is worth a close rewatch. There are some conversations between P and E about who should take the highest risk of capture and who should escape with the children that may be repeated in some form once they realize Stan is closing in. The scenes take on extra poignancy now, knowing they didn’t apply then but will soon. I’m trying to figure out how or whether the Jennings or Claudia could get tipped off. In the season 1 finale Stan inadvertently tipped off Nina who tipped off Arkady who got a signal to Claudia. This time it could only be Oleg, as the Nina surrogate. Or the priest maybe. I also noted another prominent view of Elizabeth in front a travel poster for Paris, different than the one in Paige’s bedroom. And now there’s a potential mission in France (though Cazaux is not really that near Paris.)

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

For all the callbacks we’ve seen to the pilot I also think the season 1 finale is worth a close rewatch.

Yes, this last episode had a lot of callbacks to it. I guess one of the most obvious things that would bring up would be Philip's last minute rescue. He put himself in what he thought was the more dangerous mission and then when he discovered the trap he didn't run as he was supposed to but ran to save Elizabeth. Then Elizabeth got shot but was saved.

If the positions are flipped, would Elizabeth save Philip or the mission? We all know Philip would make the same choice, but maybe this time it's him who takes the bullet.

I thought the fire scene was new. Can't remember anything with a fire in the past ever. It seems from the summary that Philip might tell her what he's doing. Which is kind of interesting in the way he's laying out for her where his lines are drawn: refusing to kidnap Kimmy, volunteering to help with Harvest, agreeing to help Oleg. Elizabeth is really getting a crash course in what it's like to work with somebody following their own moral compass.

[BingeyKohan]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I thought the fire scene was new. Can't remember anything with a fire in the past ever. It seems from the summary that Philip might tell her what he's doing. Which is kind of interesting in the way he's laying out for her where his lines are drawn: refusing to kidnap Kimmy, volunteering to help with Harvest, agreeing to help Oleg. Elizabeth is really getting a crash course in what it's like to work with somebody following their own moral compass.

I think the fire scene is new, too. I wonder if it’s after the scene we glimpse quickly, E in her nurse garb kneeling and opening a case. Maybe she’s raiding Erica’s sketch collection of any that are of her. She’s burning anything identifying.

I do think E learns about P’s betrayal next episode. I was cheered somewhat by rereading a Variety interview at the start of this season that refers to a scene in the finale with P and E together on a train. I wasn’t sure they’d both make it to the finale. 

[BingeyKohan]

On 5/10/2018 at 2:30 PM, sistermagpie said:

That's not Henry. It's the intern Elizabeth's stalking and looks like trying to start an affair with.

There’s also a scene in the season 6 trailer that appears to be right after the intern has left the car. Elizabeth looks troubled, like some weighty realization is settling in. I think that’s the moment she realizes she’s been made.

[hellmouse]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes, this last episode had a lot of callbacks to it. I guess one of the most obvious things that would bring up would be Philip's last minute rescue. He put himself in what he thought was the more dangerous mission and then when he discovered the trap he didn't run as he was supposed to but ran to save Elizabeth. Then Elizabeth got shot but was saved.

If the positions are flipped, would Elizabeth save Philip or the mission? We all know Philip would make the same choice, but maybe this time it's him who takes the bullet.

I thought the fire scene was new. Can't remember anything with a fire in the past ever. It seems from the summary that Philip might tell her what he's doing. Which is kind of interesting in the way he's laying out for her where his lines are drawn: refusing to kidnap Kimmy, volunteering to help with Harvest, agreeing to help Oleg. Elizabeth is really getting a crash course in what it's like to work with somebody following their own moral compass.

What an interesting point! Elizabeth is used to being the one whose compass sets the direction for others. Philip is not rejecting her but he is setting his own terms. He wants her, he wants to protect his family and help his country, but he does not want to blindly follow the Centre's orders anymore. As he says in the preview - "they give the orders, but we are the ones who do them. It's on us." He is the one who chopped off Marilyn's head, not the Centre. I could see him not wanting Elizabeth to take a cyanide capsule simply because it was an order. And maybe he tells her about Oleg so that she sees the situation is not as black and white as she believes. 

Maybe her art lessons with Erica have opened her eyes enough for her to absorb his message, and to heed Erica's regret about having chosen her work over her husband. Could Elizabeth do that? Would she choose Philip by saving herself, even if it meant disobeying the order to take the cyanide?