S07.E10: The Eighth Witch

[Camera One]

Why wouldn't Ivy and Gothel have ensured that the Coven of Witches be also "awake" in Hyperion Heights so they can scheme together?

Ivy's plan to "punish" Victoria was pretty stupid.  So she had to endure abuse as her assistant for who knows how long?  Since we actually have no idea how long they have been in Hyperion Heights.  Even though it matters.  A lot.  

Looks like Nick is being used as much as Kathryn.  Come in for this very important pre-Curse scene where you just stand there and say one line.

[Lady Calypso]

11 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Ivy's plan to "punish" Victoria was pretty stupid.  So she had to endure abuse as her assistant for who knows how long?  Since we actually have no idea how long they have been in Hyperion Heights.  Even though it matters.  A lot.  

Well, didn't the whole curse thing happen right as Lucy turned eight? How old is Lucy supposed to be in present day, anyway? I know the actress is 12, but is Lucy supposed to still be 8, or is she 10? Because if she's ten, then at least that would explain that they've been under the curse for two years. Though why Drizella would choose to suffer under her mother's wrath like that for additional years is beyond me. Yeah, great revenge plan there, Drizella. You just happened to suffer too, and now you're trapped in a well.

[tennisgurl]

I know people have always made fun of how weird the original dark curse was, but I could at least get why Regina thought it was so terrible. Her enemies were separated from the people they loved, and were all subservient to her as Mayor Mills. If I was a super-villain, I might have gone with hellfire and damnation, but whatever floats your boat. I understood the appeal. I have NO CLUE why Drezella is enacting this specific plan, where her mom only suffers some minor inconveniences, and she has to work a crappy job and be berated by her mother some more. Unless she is playing a long game that would put Rumples generation spanning plan to shame, this all seems pretty stupid. I miss when Ivy was more morally ambiguous and we weren't sure what her deal was. As a full on villain, she isn't nearly as interesting. 

Also, its super creepy that the heroes kept Drizella on their lawn like a damn garden gnome. These are the good guys? This is some White Witch of Narnia shit right there. 

[Rumsy4]

40 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't know, I get that Zelena isn't evil, but her workout outfit certainly showed off the cleavage. 

Typically the writers associate cleavage with villiany (except in the case of Shady Blue and her buxom boobs). But neither MopHead nor Ivy are dressed displaying their...assets. As for the coven of coat-hangers, we haven't even seen their faces yet. lol

29 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Why wouldn't Ivy and Gothel have ensured that the Coven of Witches be also "awake" in Hyperion Heights so they can scheme together?

Exactly. It makes zero sense to me why Gothel went along with the Dark Curse plan. Unless she wanted to be in the Land w/o Magic knowing that only she and the Guardian would be able to wield magic. 

And what makes Ana the Guardian anyway? It seems to arbitrary. 

[Camera One]

9 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

And what makes Ana the Guardian anyway? It seems to arbitrary. 

That really stood out for me too.  In Lady Tremaine's origin story, the girls seemed completely ordinary and magic-less.  It doesn't mesh with all this stuff about Anastasia having such great power.  I suppose they could say that Anastasia committing such a heroic act of trying to save Cinderella in the pond imbued her with great magic?  But that couldn't explain it because apparently, Drizella was born with magic too.  

It also looked like Anastasia recognized the "witch" and if that's the case, Drizella should know what Gothel did to her mother, so why the hell would she trust her?  

And as usual, The Guardian is supposed to be someone of great goodness, yet a Villain can use the pure good's magic?  

[tennisgurl]

Gee, do you think that the gaggle of black cloaked nobody's will be as riveting as the other gaggle of black cloaked nobody's that were the Dark Ones? Better move along, black cloaked nobody's, the Death Eaters are gonna need those costumes back!  

[jhlipton]

My God, do they cast for the most charisma-free actress they could find?  Anastasia waqs so flat, I thought I was going to doze every time she talked!

On 12/15/2017 at 6:39 PM, Mabinogia said:

What was the point of trying to cut down that tree? Was Henry going to build another wardrobe for Lucy and send her to Storybrooke? 

The tree itself was magic.  Even if Henry didn't have time to build a wardrobe, he could cut a niche to put Lucy in.

On 12/15/2017 at 7:10 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I'm kind of retroactively sad that they never did a half season where Regina threw a tantrum every time they didn't eat her lasagna and recast the curse with new personalities for all.

That show is called The Good Place.

On 12/15/2017 at 8:14 PM, Senna said:

Speaking of Zelena, why in the world was she carting her wedding dress to cycling class?

Maybe she had picked it up in the morning before class?

On 12/16/2017 at 0:24 PM, Rumsy4 said:

Not sure that actually speaks in A&E's credit except they skipped the whole "Evil Cleavage" route this time around.

We don't know what they're wearing under the robes...

On 12/17/2017 at 5:59 PM, Rumsy4 said:

Typically the writers associate cleavage with villiany (except in the case of Shady Blue and her buxom boobs).

Hence ther band name "The Cleavage of Evil".

On 12/16/2017 at 5:34 PM, Mabinogia said:

Why wouldn't Jacinda call, oh, I don't know, Lucy's father (well, the man she thinks is her father).

They just kissed, but she's forgotten him already.  Murderella is such a bitch!

[Shanna Marie]

I'm still trying to figure out how that "If we don't break the curse, Lucy dies, but if we break the curse, Henry dies" thing works.

Lucy's current condition has nothing to do with the curse, so I'm not sure how breaking the curse would help her, unless maybe it's that any TLK that breaks the curse putting her in her current condition would also have a spillover effect and break all curses in the vicinity, including the Hyperion Heights Dark Curse. But is her condition even a "curse"? It seemed more like the spell transferred her lifeforce to Anastasia, so the way to save her would be to transfer that lifeforce back. Lucy and Anastasia can't both be alive at the same time. Though I guess Regina has no way of knowing that this is what's going on right now, and they're thinking it's another sleeping curse. Maybe?

Then again, by the end of season 6, they'd made a True Love Kiss so powerful and all-purpose that it could heal physical injuries, and they diluted the concept of Savior so much along the way that it meant that any TLK between any two people could break a curse on a whole town, rather than it being only the Savior who could break the Dark Curse. And they're still iffy on what, exactly, the components of the Dark Curse are and what gets broken. Regina's curse created Storybrooke, transported everyone there, took their memories and gave them new personalities and new lives, and froze time. Emma's decision to stay in the town broke the frozen time part of the curse, and her TLK with Henry broke the memory part, but it did nothing about Storybrooke or them all being in the wrong world. Snow's curse (which apparently wasn't needed because Regina could have recast it based on already having made a sacrifice) just created Storybrooke and transported them, and it was Zelena's add-on that wiped their memories of the past year. Time wasn't frozen and no one got new personalities. Hook/Nimue's curse just transported them to an already existing Storybrooke (which made it rather pointless). It was Emma's spell that took their memories of the previous six weeks. Now this curse (Drizella's by way of Regina) seems to have transported them to Seattle. We don't know if they were slotted into an existing neighborhood or if somehow a whole new neighborhood was created. It wiped their memories and gave them new personalities, and it must have also had an effect on the people of Seattle, who didn't notice this new neighborhood suddenly popping into existence, including police officers who must have some interaction with their higher-ups and the court system elsewhere in the city (for Weaver to have pull with judges). So, what gets "broken" if the curse gets broken? And how does that affect Henry? If it's a magical poison that doesn't work while they're in a place without magic, then restoring memories wouldn't change that unless Drizella dumps some True Love potion into a well.

[Mabinogia]

20 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Though I guess Regina has no way of knowing that this is what's going on right now, and they're thinking it's another sleeping curse. Maybe?

If I had any faith in these writers I'd be impressed that they have a character not operating with the knowledge of the viewers, but I don't. I'm pretty sure the writers don't really know what kind of curse it is, so there is no way Regina would know. lol She does tend to know whatever the writers do, like their timeline is total crap

20 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

So, what gets "broken" if the curse gets broken?

I don't even know what the curse did. It brought them to a land with, some magic, if it's needed for the plot, but some of them can leave, so they aren't trapped, the caster is an admit who works for the person she is trying to get revenge on, it's the worst curse ever! I have no idea what the point was. Ivy said something about killing Anastasia in front of her mom, but why did she have to send them to HH to do that? Why did the rest have to go? I can't even figure out why Gothel wanted them cursed. If Ana is the Guardian and Gothel wanted the Guardian, couldn't she have just taken her in the DF? Why bring them here? None of it makes a damned bit of sense to me.

[sweetandsour]

Next time a project or due dates come up at work, I'm just going to dismiss with a flippant, "I'm not here to discuss timelines."  It should work as well as it did on this show??? Looking forward to my promotion!

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I actually remembered to watch this one over the weekend.  So now I'm stuck trying to remember what I was thinking while watching it.  (Standard disclaimer that I haven't read the comments yet).  Mainly, I remember thinking the timeline was a whacked out mess in the flashbacks.  They're treating Whook like regular old Hook.  And what kind of inconsiderate jackass is Henry that he apparently never went back to see Emma and Hook especially after he got married and had a frickin baby and the 'resistance' won?

I liked that the romance between Alice and Robin was a little more...well, a little less shoved in my face from outta nowhere like the Ruby Dorothy thing, but I still think it could have benefited from a bit more development.  At least I bought it from Alice.  She seemed into it.  Robin not so much.

At this point, all I really want to know is: who is the guy Zelena was going to marry?  Walsh?  (heh.)  I hope he turns out to be some weird fairy tale character.

And sort of (but really not terribly interested): what Gold did for Alice to turn him back into SparklyRumple and why would he anyway?  (Don't give me that 'he's a hero now' BS, show, cause I ain't buying it.)

Edited December 20, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey
It was Ruby Slippers not Ruby Warrior

[Lady Calypso]

21 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

At this point, all I really want to know is: who is the guy Zelena was going to marry?  Walsh?  (heh.)  I hope he turns out to be some weird fairy tale character.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they had it be Nick. Why? Just because. I mean, they already had Jacinda forget to call Nick about Lucy in favour of her thing with Henry, and I can't recall if Nick ever stated that he was single. But since this season tends to forget about their own plots within the season and have writers who don't seem to communicate with each other, I'd laugh if Nick/Zelena was actually a thing. 

I don't think they'll go that route, but with this show, it's not out of the realm of possibilities. 

[Camera One]

I actually wouldn't mind Nick, though if he and Zelena were together, they would have a long-distance relationship since he lives in Seattle while she lives in San Francisco.

I didn't understand why Zelena didn't show any worry for her daughter since she's clearly MIA.  I suppose Zelena could have assumed she stayed back on Emerald Farm which was unaffected by the Curse?  Depending on where it was.

So Alice somehow got out of the Tower, got her heart poisoned, went to Emerald Farm and fell in love?  Unless Robyn went to Unwonderland?  For "romance", they might have Robyn in the Disenchanted Forest and she was the one who rescued Alice from the Tower?  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 12/15/2017 at 9:12 PM, KingOfHearts said:

I kid you not - the only unanswered question I cared about was the identity of Zelena's fiance.

On 12/15/2017 at 10:05 PM, InsertWordHere said:

If it's Walsh it would serve her right.

LOL!  Same!  And I honestly had not read the comments when I made mine.  It's kind of amazing (weird? scary?) that more than one of us had the same thought though.  Doesn't speak so well of the episode.

On 12/16/2017 at 1:45 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Henry will probably not die when the curse is broken, but they're totally playing it like he is. I assume someone will take his poisoned heart and die in his place.

Now, bets on who that'll be? If the showrunners are actually listening to the critiques, it'll be Jacinda who makes the heroic sacrifice, and at least that gets rid of one of the major problems (and there are MANY, but that's a huge biggie). Then, they'd just have to deal with Lucy, fix the writing, make Henry more interesting somehow, etc. 

If they did that, it would be a Real Twist - for once.  I'd love it!

On 12/16/2017 at 0:04 PM, ParadoxLost said:

@Rumsy4 You had one job.  One job.  I'm going to go Christmas shopping now. I expect you to have watched this and explained this thing to me before I get back.  If I have to watch this again when I get home...  Well, I'm going to find Santa and have him put you on the naughty list.

You know, it's comments like this that make me love this forum!  And probably the only reason I still watch the show. :)

On 12/16/2017 at 0:33 PM, Mabinogia said:

I have never been so happy for a show to go on winter break.

Huh.  I'm not really happy for the winter break.  Only because I'm more of a 'power through the bad stuff' kind of person, so I'd rather just go ahead and get this season over with. 
 

On 12/16/2017 at 8:18 PM, Camera One said:

At first, Zelena was aghast she teaches a spin class and is a hippie,

Someone needs to tell these writers that teaching a super-hip 'spin class' =/= hippie.  Since they're usually all about the 80's references, 'yuppie' would have been more appropriate.

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I didn't understand why Zelena didn't show any worry for her daughter since she's clearly MIA.  I suppose Zelena could have assumed she stayed back on Emerald Farm which was unaffected by the Curse?  Depending on where it was.

I thought Robyn was off in Amsterdam?  Unless that bit about Roni telling her to 'live the dream' or whatever was only cursed memories, but I thought it had actually happened in HH.

[Mabinogia]

8 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Someone needs to tell these writers that teaching a super-hip 'spin class' =/= hippie.

I did scratch my head at the "hippy" comment, since nothing about Kelly said hippy to me. Now Gothel, she has a more hippy vibe, with the gardening and the long, unkept hair, and sort of caped flowy look. Kelly is more trendy yuppy. It is because she's doing something "healthy" they think she's a hippy?

[KingOfHearts]

I don't think I followed it very well - who are all the Witches that we know of so far out of the eight? I know there's Gothel. I thought Ivy was one too, but it appears she got replaced with Anastasia. How many Coat Hangers do we have to look forward to meeting in 7B?

Edited December 22, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[jhlipton]

On 12/22/2017 at 0:04 PM, KingOfHearts said:

I don't think I followed it very well - who are all the Witches that we know of so far out of the eight? I know there's Gothel. I thought Ivy was one too, but it appears she got replaced with Anastasia. How many Coat Hangers do we have to look forward to meeting in 7B?

Ivy was one in the Disenchanted Forest, but was replaced by Anastasia (for REASONS!!!).  I think Regina was the 8th witch in the DF. Who the other witches are (5 in the DF and 6 in Hyperion Heights) remains to be seen.

[Camera One]

On 12/22/2017 at 0:04 PM, KingOfHearts said:

I don't think I followed it very well - who are all the Witches that we know of so far out of the eight? I know there's Gothel. I thought Ivy was one too, but it appears she got replaced with Anastasia. How many Coat Hangers do we have to look forward to meeting in 7B?

I don't get it either.  Are there 8 in Gothel's Coven?  Or did it include the "good witches" on the other side like Regina and Zelena?  Why would Gothel be sending out invitations to those who were no longer evil like Zelena?   And if The Guardian is so incorruptible, she would never agree to whatever Gothel's plan will be.   Considering the Coat Hangers are the big cliffhanger, making it so nebulous and undefined was an idiotic move.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Camera One

[jhlipton]

22 hours ago, Camera One said:

nebulous and undefined --  an idiotic move.

"Nebulous and Undefined" is the band A&E formed to play after a hard day of scripting (HA!).  "An Idiotic Move" is their first single.

[amass]

Rapunzel aged enough for all of them...

[Rushmoras]

I admit, cause the story-line every season is more and more of a parody, I watch this show only for the cleavages, but even that lately does not seem to hold my interest. This episode was such a cluster-fuck-ridicullous-peace of trash that I have seen in the history of this show. For most of the time I was like "What the fuck is this shit". I really don't wish for the actors to loose their jobs, but all together I'm hoping that they cancel this show after this season.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Oh, I don't hope that they cancel the show.  It is kind of fun to snark about.  However, I won't be surprised when it's not renewed, or saddened, like I would have been in previous years. 

[Mabinogia]

I'm torn. On the one hand, it is fun to make fun of this show. On the other hand, there are a handful of actors I would like to see doing something better than this. Oh the conflict!

What I'd really like is to win the lottery, buy the show, and hire a bunch of people here to help me write it. the ultimate fanfictioners dream come true. lol

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

hire a bunch of people here to help me write it. the ultimate fanfictioners dream come true. lol

And there could be a really fun meta episode making fun of A&E!  Lol!

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

And there could be a really fun meta episode making fun of A&E!  Lol!

It's just an episode full of reviews by critics panning Isaac and Henry's books.

[Mitch]

I finally caught this episode and don't hate on me but I liked it...if you looked at it on its own, and not the rest of the season's sloppy and lazy buildup to this.

I liked that they need to be more creative with the magic now that they are on a tighter budget. I think  Gothel and the witches entrance to the birthday party was really good with the lighting and the cuts.  I like that magical people can be overcome with swords and ..hooks, instead of is the past where they just waved their hands and people fell over.  I liked the effect of Rumple, the Step Mother (shows how much I pay attention this year...I don't even remember her name) thrown up in the shock wave of Gothel's arrival. I liked that they forced Regina to cast the curse to save her kid, and I even was okay with the work around that her blood can be used to recast it...(which would bring up an interesting point that Regina still has some darkness in her) it is much better then Pan's "The heart of the person you hate the least," casting or the two dimwits using Charms heart...(the never made sense to me I thought the Curse had to be cast with anger...) I liked that the Curse looked ominous and powerful again and they retired the purple smoke, and characters didn't stand around having long conversations waiting for the Curse to hit...(hey, want to pick up some lunch..they might not have tacos where we are going...) I liked Hook having compassion for Regina's situation and I liked that Regina and Zelena were getting along and working together. I really liked SparkleDark looking old, weary and sad...Carlyle plays it perfectly and like Parrilla, is at his best when toning it down..) The actor playing whatshisface who is Cinders ex-husband in HH is hot and why couldn't he have been cast as Henry (Henry "sexy"...nahhhh wouldnt work..)  The Tatianna actress is everything Cinders is not....if she played Cinders I would actually give a crap about what is going on.

 

Okay, to the negative...I understand how Anastacia has magic in HH as she seems to be like Emma and naturally born with it, but how does Gothel? The show needs to quit referencing better times with repeating past scenes...(Gothel's entrance at the hospital/Regina's entrance at the Town Hall/Drizzella's appearance at the party to threaten everyone/Regina's threats at Snow's wedding) it just makes you realize how cheap it looks now. Did they forget or can't afford the purple magic effects anymore...Zelena zaps the Curse instructions out of Driz' hand and then Regina waves her hands over Henry and both looked like they did it with the intent of adding in the effects..it looked weird.  What is so bad with being sent to Seattle..the hood they live in looks okay...Regina's bar looks cool..what was with Gothel's "Let the suffering begin,"??? How did Driz know that Regina was going to show up so she could cast the Curse? Both Cinder and her daughter are TERRIBLE...I am sorry to be mean to a little girl but she was even annoying knocked out... The casting of the Curse would have been more momentous if I was invested in the new characters and their relationships..hell, even our old characters relationships needed to be fleshed out..how are Regina and Zelena on good terms, Regina split with the EQ but how is Zelena so nice all of a sudden? (I like them being friends but they still should get on each other's nerves constantly...)Why is Zelena living in the Faux EF and how did she get there? Woudlnt she have gone to the original EF or Oz?? How did Zelena get her magic back? How are Whook and Zelena friends? What is the point of the whole damn Curse..couldnt Driz have done the same thing in the FauxEF?  We always get why Regina did it, but Driz seems to have a hell of a lot more options..TWU WUVS kiss has gotten so cheap since the original that anyone can do it to cure anyone of anything.. again...I thought the Savior was the only one to break the Curse...anyone can with a kiss???

[Shanna Marie]

Ah, the exciting Coat Hangers episode!

This has to be the worst episode for It Happened Offscreen. In between episodes, Henry and Ella got married and had a kid, they won the revolution, and Tiana became queen, plus Lady Tremaine, the person they were rebelling against, became their ally, though we don't know if she switched allegiances and actually joined them in rebelling against the king or if she just teamed up with them when Drizella became a real threat. They seem to have been aware of the threat Drizella posed, since they were ready with Lady Tremaine, so I guess the awareness that she was a real threat also happened offscreen. Drizella seemed to be totally surprised that her mother was there, so if her entire goal was to torment her mother, why did she go to Henry and the others to make her "prophecy" about the curse? I know they were trying to mirror Regina showing up at the Charmings' wedding, but it doesn't work here.

It still annoys me that they don't seem to know the difference between a prophecy and plans. When you tell someone something that you're planning to do, that isn't a prophecy. Maybe Drizella was just being snarky and acting like it was prophecy to tell them her plans, doing it like she was a character in a story, but she doesn't have the pop-culture references since she's from a fairytale world. And I'm not sure why she put the 8-year delay into her plans. They were also idiots not to take her threat seriously and just keep her frozen figure on the patio instead of locking it up in a secure facility. They pretty much deserved to get cursed after that.

At the birthday party, there was some weird blocking, with Jack standing with Tiana, Ella, and Lucy, while Henry was off with Regina and WHook. If you only saw that scene, you'd think Jack was Lucy's father. Were they trying to hint at that as a red herring? And eight years later, they're all pretty much still wearing the same clothes? Especially WHook. Poor man never gets to change clothes.

I'm trying to remember, did Henry ever meet Tiger Lily? He refers to her as a friend, but I don't remember her being around when Henry was. Hook ran into her in Neverland on his last visit, and it was implied that he knew her from before. Did Henry meet her in Neverland (offscreen)? And when did she become a fairy again? Did we see that? I thought she got de-fairied when she failed with Fiona. I seem to have already blotted season six out of my memory.

The present-day plot doesn't make a lot of sense, either. I got the impression from the way they were talking that Roni and Kelly weren't actually sisters, just business partners, with Roni being like an aunt to Kelly's daughter, the way Sabine is to Lucy. Roni says something about how they were like sisters, then after Kelly drinks the potion, Rongina tells her they really are sisters. I'm still wondering how long the curse has been in effect. Did it just drop Zelena in San Francisco with fake memories of co-owning a bar with Roni, or did they live in Seattle for some time before having a spat and Kelly moving to San Francisco, where she lived long enough to get engaged? And Regina went straight from dragging Henry with her to keep him away from Jacinda to sending him straight back to Seattle to be with Jacinda. Isn't it a little strange for him to rush off like that to be at the side of a woman he hasn't even gone out with? We know it's really his family, but he doesn't know that.

I still don't understand how poisoning Henry is supposed to have worked. Regina had to take them to a land without magic to keep the poison from working on him, and she and Zelena say they can't get their powers back without breaking the curse, which would kill Henry, but several people in the land "without magic" have magic, so why would Regina and Zelena getting their powers back be any different? All the curse seems to do is give them false identities, and that's all that seems to "break" when they break one of these curses, so getting their memories back shouldn't affect Henry. Why bother to break the curse, anyway? Why not just give all the affected people the potion Regina gave Zelena?

One detail that amused me: It looks like it was raining during all their location shoots in the forest (possibly all shot on the same day), and it seems like real rain, not fake rain for the scene, since it wasn't obviously visible most of the time, showing up mostly in how wet WHook's hair looked. Rumple had his hood up and over his face, and I imagine that was mostly so all the glittery makeup wouldn't run.

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

This has to be the worst episode for It Happened Offscreen.

We're missing at least two or three flashback episodes. Before this episode, I wasn't even sure if Lucy was Henry's biological daughter.

It was a good move to bring Zelena back. She brought a certain warmth and nostalgia the other main characters were missing. Was it forced because of failing ratings? Absolutely, but I'll take it over anything else that's going on in Hyperion Heights.

Quote

As I mentioned in a previous post. the whole Drizella declaring that "prophesy" was poorly written, paced and acted

This scene is probably the worst acted scene in the show's history. (Unless anyone else knows of another contender.) I don't know what happened to Adelaide Kane because she usually does a decent job, but the speech was absolutely dreadful. Every time the writers have tried to repeat Regina's wedding crash from the Pilot, it's sucked.

Edited October 25, 2019 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

This scene is probably the worst acted scene in the show's history. (Unless anyone else knows of another contender.) I don't know what happened to Adelaide Kane because she usually does a decent job, but the speech was absolutely dreadful. Every time the writers have tried to repeat Regina's wedding crash from the Pilot, it's sucked.

That's why I was wondering if maybe she was supposed to be doing it ironically, mocking the usual "villain crashes event, makes speech about what she's going to do" scene, a la Regina in the pilot, Maleficent at Aurora's christening, etc., and that's why she was being all portentious with the "prophecy" stuff when really she was just warning them what she was going to do (and, again, why? These aren't the people she's punishing, so why does she need to make them worry about their doom, and why would she warn them about what she's going to do instead of just doing it so they don't have time to prepare?). But the problem is how she would know that's even a thing in a world without movies. I don't think you get the same sense of drama to be able to mock it like that just from hearing or even reading folk tales. Has Henry been doing one-man shows of Disney movies along with the Star Wars movies? I want to see his impression of Maleficent from the Disney cartoon version.

[Camera One]

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

This has to be the worst episode for It Happened Offscreen. In between episodes, Henry and Ella got married and had a kid, they won the revolution, and Tiana became queen, plus Lady Tremaine, the person they were rebelling against, became their ally, though we don't know if she switched allegiances and actually joined them in rebelling against the king or if she just teamed up with them when Drizella became a real threat. They seem to have been aware of the threat Drizella posed, since they were ready with Lady Tremaine, so I guess the awareness that she was a real threat also happened offscreen.

5 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

We're missing at least two or three flashback episodes. Before this episode, I wasn't even sure if Lucy was Henry's biological daughter.

This was the latest indication that there was a major U-Turn in their direction for the season.  I imagine a lot of those flashbacks would have been in 7B.  

4 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

That's why I was wondering if maybe she was supposed to be doing it ironically, mocking the usual "villain crashes event, makes speech about what she's going to do" scene, a la Regina in the pilot, Maleficent at Aurora's christening, etc., and that's why she was being all portentious with the "prophecy" stuff when really she was just warning them what she was going to do (and, again, why? These aren't the people she's punishing, so why does she need to make them worry about their doom, and why would she warn them about what she's going to do instead of just doing it so they don't have time to prepare?). 

Yeah, I don't think Drizella was intentionally trying to be ironic.   This was A&E thinking they replicate the iconic scene from "Sleeping Beauty" again after their previous success in Season 1 with Regina interrupting Snowing's wedding.  

I wonder if there was initially supposed to be a reason why Drizella wanted to seek revenge on everyone, or if that just went along with suddenly becoming evil.

[Camera One]

Okay, I finally rewatched the episode.  It was still a mess.

8 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm trying to remember, did Henry ever meet Tiger Lily? He refers to her as a friend, but I don't remember her being around when Henry was. Hook ran into her in Neverland on his last visit, and it was implied that he knew her from before. Did Henry meet her in Neverland (offscreen)? And when did she become a fairy again? Did we see that? I thought she got de-fairied when she failed with Fiona. I seem to have already blotted season six out of my memory.

Yeah, Henry never met Tiger Lily on the main show.  I guess she came over to visit from Neverland after the Black Fairy was defeated since she could finally look Blue in the face.

Quote

I'm still wondering how long the curse has been in effect.

Me too.  But I think @Lady Calypso above might have it.  She pointed out that the Curse was cast when Lucy was 8 years old and now she's 10, so they must have been in Hyperion Heights for 2 years before Henry came.

It doesn't explain why Henry was deposited outside of Hyperion Heights.  Which still does beg the question how Zelena got to San Francisco.  And she got the modern download, so what's with calling her fiancé a "bloke"?  Kelly's backstory is immigration from Britain?

Speaking of "prophesy", Gothel also calls the Curse a prophesy at the birthday party.  She said, "Come Drizella... in days, the prophesy shall be fulfilled.  The Curse shall be cast."  As you said, why did they have to wait 8 years?  

So in the flashback from the Season 6 finale, repeated in this episode, Henry told Lucy she must keep the "Once Upon a Time" book safe.  But Victoria had it all along.  Great plan, eh?

Spoiler

So was Jack seething when she saw Zelena in the scene when the Curse was being cast?  

Eloise said she transferred Ivy's magic into Anastasia.  But Ivy didn't have any magic in the Land Without Magic, I thought?  

7 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

It was a good move to bring Zelena back. She brought a certain warmth and nostalgia the other main characters were missing. Was it forced because of failing ratings? Absolutely, but I'll take it over anything else that's going on in Hyperion Heights.

Spoiler

Yeah, this was probably the first time she came back that I was happy to see her.  I still don't see the point of giving her a Curse persona if they weren't even going to play with it for more than 10 minutes.  I would have preferred to see Curse Regina and Curse Zelena interacting at the bar before they remembered each other.  It looks like Regina and Zelena became actual true friendly sisters in the interim 25 years off-screen.

[Shanna Marie]

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

Yeah, I don't think Drizella was intentionally trying to be ironic.   This was A&E thinking they replicate the iconic scene from "Sleeping Beauty" again after their previous success in Season 1 with Regina interrupting Snowing's wedding.  

It probably wasn't written to be ironic, but I wonder if the actress played it that way. After all, the scene makes no sense otherwise, and I imagine it would be difficult to play sincerely. Since she's casting the curse to torture her mother, and she doesn't know her mother is there, why is she mwa ha haing to the people who are essentially collateral damage or useful pawns? The only reason she has for cursing them is so she can make her mother think she cast the curse, so she's cursing the people she thinks are her mother's enemies (I guess Victoria's curse identity as the curse caster made her forget that she seems to have made up with these people). This scene would be like if, instead of Regina interrupting the wedding, she'd barged into one of the Ye Olde Tavern locations and boasted to the random people drinking there about the curse she was going to cast in order to hurt the Charmings. And even that would have made a bit more sense, since Regina was angry at the whole kingdom for not loving and accepting her and for supporting Snow. Drizella is doing this gloating to the people who were trying to bring down her mother.

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

Which still does beg the question how Zelena got to San Francisco.  And she got the modern download, so what's with calling her fiancé a "bloke"?  Kelly's backstory is immigration from Britain?

She still has a British accent, so I guess that would be her backstory, and that would explain why apparently Roni and Kelly were "like" sisters rather than really being sisters. It would be pretty complicated to come up with a backstory in which those two were really sisters, as complicated as their real backstory is.

It seems that Hyperion Heights is the Little Britain of Seattle. "Eloise" has a British accent in spite of supposedly having been a "little girl" when she went missing in Seattle ten years ago. Then there's Victoria, Rogers, and Weaver, plus Tilly and Kelly.

[KingOfHearts]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It seems that Hyperion Heights is the Little Britain of Seattle. "Eloise" has a British accent in spite of supposedly having been a "little girl" when she went missing in Seattle ten years ago. Then there's Victoria, Rogers, and Weaver, plus Tilly and Kelly.

They really should've just set the location in Canada or Britain.

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Since she's casting the curse to torture her mother, and she doesn't know her mother is there, why is she mwa ha haing to the people who are essentially collateral damage or useful pawns?

There was a time jump of a year or so or however long it took Henry and Jacinda to get married, so maybe in that time period, the Resistance was actively trying to stop Drizella from enacting the Curse.  There was already bad blood between Drizella and Henry/Jacinda from "Pretty in Blue" when they tricked her by throwing a mirror at her.

Both Drizella and Gothel referred to the Curse as a "prophesy" that would happen on Lucy's 8th birthday, so you'd think there was a missing piece in the story where they read a book of prophesy somewhere or consulted a witch with premonitions.  A&E could argue that in the original tale of "Sleeping Beauty", Maleficent just pulled 16th birthday out of thin air.  Of course, the animated Maleficent wasn't stupid enough to call it a prophesy.  And we know the Dark Curse can be enacted whenever, and it's not on an 8-year cycle.

Another thing that I thought was weird was that Eloise Gardiner didn't have magic, but she somehow managed to drag an unconscious Victoria Belfrey all the way to the well to throw her in?  Even if Victoria woke up and she walked, it should still take them longer.  But Eloise arrived there before Ivy and Anastasia.  Huh?  

Edited October 26, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

48 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Another thing that I thought was weird was that Eloise Gardiner didn't have magic, but she somehow to drag an unconscious Victoria Belfrey all the way to the well to throw her in?  Even if Victoria woke up and she walked, it should still take them longer.  But Eloise arrived there before Ivy and Anastasia.  Huh?  

I think I'd completely zoned out by that point. I just watched it Thursday, and I don't remember seeing any of that. Maybe I need to rewatch the rewatch. I don't even remember what I started doing instead while it was on. That's so weird. I remember it happening from when it first aired, but I didn't see it at all this time.

50 minutes ago, Camera One said:

There was a time jump of a year or so or however long it took Henry and Jacinda to get married, so maybe in that time period, the Resistance was actively trying to stop Drizella from enacting the Curse. 

That's part of this episode's "It happened offscreen." Along with the "prophecy."

The villains on this show really need to learn that they'd be more successful if they just did what they wanted to do and let it be a surprise rather than boasting about it and giving their victims a chance to make plans. If Regina had just cast the curse without the warning, Emma would have been caught up in it, and there would have been no savior (though there's still a chance Rumple would have spilled the beans, but that's on him, not Regina). If Zelena had been able to resist creeping all over Snowflake in utero, she would have been able to do her time travel spell without them being any the wiser. And if Drizella had been able to resist giving her "prophecy," she wouldn't have spent eight years as a statue. If they hadn't turned her into a statue and assumed they were safe, they might have been able to stop her with eight years of warning.

[Camera One]

On 10/25/2019 at 12:12 PM, Shanna Marie said:

Regina had to take them to a land without magic to keep the poison from working on him, and she and Zelena say they can't get their powers back without breaking the curse, which would kill Henry, but several people in the land "without magic" have magic, so why would Regina and Zelena getting their powers back be any different?

I read this before rewatching the episode, and this actually took all the sail out of the suspense and stakes at the end of the episode, when Regina or Zelena did the voiceover about getting their magic back = breaking the Curse, and either Henry dies or Lucy dies.  

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I read this before rewatching the episode, and this actually took all the sail out of the suspense and stakes at the end of the episode, when Regina or Zelena did the voiceover about getting their magic back = breaking the Curse, and either Henry dies or Lucy dies.  

Sorry if I ruined an otherwise wonderful episode for you.

But it was kind of silly to have the scene with Anastasia doing magic all over the place and making things fly around, then have Regina and Zelena fretting about how them getting their magic back would mean Henry dies.

It would have been funny if Henry had still died upon being brought to our world, thanks to his big library penny speech bringing magic to the World Without Magic, so the poison still worked in spite of Regina casting the curse.

[Camera One]

LOL, yes, I was counting on this emotional episode to give me a good cry last night.

[Camera One]

What was the significance of the eighth witch?

[KingOfHearts]

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

What was the significance of the eighth witch?

She comes after the seventh witch.

[tennisgurl]

Beware the deadly coat hangers! The most terrifying of all household appliances! Oh my God, this whole episode is just "is this supposed to be intense? Because its hilarious" in this whole season.

I love how apparently we get all of this build up with Henry and Jacinda as True Loves and this whole amazing family with them and Lucy and this rebellion that they messed around with for so long, and it all gets handled offscreen! Henry and Jacinda were just in the flirting stage an episode ago, but now they're not only married, but with a ten year old! And never went home to visit his mom and grand parents? I guess Lucy never needed to get to know them, she has Regina, the best and most wonderful mom/grandma/whatever ever! So Tiana got her kingdom back, the rebellion beat...whoever they were fighting, all offscreen! Like a whole season just happened in between episodes!

So they turned Drizella into a statue and just kept her in their lawn like a garden gnome? And these are supposed to be our good guys?! At that point, its more merciful just to kill her.

Hi Zelena! I am sure hat you will have tons to contribute to this season!

[Shanna Marie]

On 11/1/2019 at 1:02 AM, Camera One said:

What was the significance of the eighth witch?

I think it was all about the "twist" that it turned out to be Regina.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Like a whole season just happened in between episodes!

On the one hand, it is frustrating that the major turning points happened offscreen. On the other hand, we didn't have to devote multiple episodes to the courtship of Henry and Murderella and they tried to convince us that they were magical True Love. At least this way we don't have any "showing" to contradict the "telling."

[Camera One]

I wonder if they felt they didn't need to show Lady Tremaine deciding to work with the protagonists, so it would be more shocking when Drizella exclaimed "Blood magic!" and Tremaine showed up.  However, this was a big loss since showing how Tremaine switched sides was actually a potentially interesting story.  

I'm also surprised they skipped over how Tiana got her kingdom back because that would have been a happy satisfying story (presumably).  

Skipping over Henry and Murderella's courtyard wasn't as jarring because one could presume it began with "Pretty in Blue" and they just had no obstacles (unlike Snowing's relationship).

Spoiler

They did give us Henry's proposal later in the season that we can swoon over.

[KAOS Agent]

I'm still confused why they didn't just all leave and go back to Storybrooke instead of some convoluted curse casting. It's not like world travel is that hard since Emma, Hook and Regina all popped over pretty easily when Henry sent his message. I get that they have this whole heart curse thing, but it not working in Seattle only because they can't remember that they are cursed makes zero sense to me. If I have cancer and then suddenly get amnesia, me not remembering I have cancer isn't going to stop its progression.

Edited November 4, 2019 by KAOS Agent

[Shanna Marie]

14 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I get that they have this whole heart curse thing, but it not working in Seattle only because they can't remember that they are cursed makes zero sense to me. If I have cancer and then suddenly get amnesia, me not remembering I have cancer isn't going to stop its progression.

I thought the heart poison curse thing on Henry meant they needed to go to the World Without Magic. But then there are people using magic there, so that shouldn't protect Henry. Breaking the curse shouldn't change anything, since that just seems to give them their memories back, and it shouldn't bring magic to that world.

But, really, they should have gone straight to Storybrooke when the curse was threatened, before Henry got poisoned. And then, for good measure, headed out of town. They can't cast the Dark Curse in a place without magic.

[Shanna Marie]

On 11/3/2019 at 4:10 PM, Camera One said:

I wonder if they felt they didn't need to show Lady Tremaine deciding to work with the protagonists, so it would be more shocking when Drizella exclaimed "Blood magic!" and Tremaine showed up.  However, this was a big loss since showing how Tremaine switched sides was actually a potentially interesting story.  

I'm sure that's exactly why they did it that way -- it was all about the surprise. But regardless of whether it's a potentially interesting story, you really shouldn't have a villain join the good guys entirely offscreen. Regina's "redemption" was annoying because it skipped major steps (like admitting that she was wrong and apologizing), but at least we saw the moments when she started working with the good guys. Just having a former villain -- the person the heroes were in a rebellion against -- show up on the side of the good guys all "ha, when you weren't looking, I switched sides!" is incredibly lazy writing. The important thing was for Drizella to be surprised. I'm not sure the audience surprise was worth it.

On 11/3/2019 at 4:10 PM, Camera One said:

I'm also surprised they skipped over how Tiana got her kingdom back because that would have been a happy satisfying story (presumably).  

It looks like the whole rebel movement was just a place to park the characters while we waited for the real story to kick in. I don't think the rebels actually did anything, did they? It was the background for the foreground character stories. But if you set up a rebel movement and then later show that they succeeded, you should kind of show a little of the work -- especially when the person they were fighting against has changed sides, also offscreen.

I was going to say that we didn't really see the war against Regina in season one, but now that I think about it, did we even known about the war in season one? I'm thinking that was a season 2 invention. In season one, the TLK that broke the sleeping curse was Regina's defeat that led to her desperation that led her to cast the Dark Curse. The stuff in between didn't matter much until it got fleshed out more in later seasons. Maybe that's what they were planning to do here if they'd had more seasons. But at least there they focused the plot on all the obstacles the Charmings had to overcome to get together and Regina's various efforts to defeat Snow. Here, they didn't deal with any of the things. There are no real obstacles or conflicts for Henry and Ella getting together. We don't see the rebellion do anything, and we don't see how they succeed and put Tiana on the throne. And we don't see Lady Tremaine switching sides -- or even how or why. Was it strictly about dealing with the Drizella threat -- the enemy of my enemy is my friend -- or did she turn on the king and help them in the rebellion? Everything happened offscreen.

[Camera One]

In skipping over everything, they didn't have to work out any of the details.  Who exactly was this king and his relationship/arrangement with Tremaine (and with Tiana's father)?  How did he react to his younger son being murdered?  What was Tremaine's plan for resurrecting Anastasia in the Disenchanted Forest?  When did Tremaine meet Rumple and in what capacity?  

A&E's usual procedure is to not plan and fill in the gaps when they have to (aka retcons galore).  But in this case, they were writing out Tremaine for good and they must have known they would not be revisiting any of this.  Was it around this time they would have learned Season 7 would be the show's last so they might as well do a sharp left and explore other avenues?