S08.E08: How It's Gotta Be

[peach]

Well, I'm a little sad that there is no episode this weekend, because I want to keep this conversation going with you fine folks! 

[AngelaHunter]

5 minutes ago, peach said:

Well, I'm a little sad that there is no episode this weekend, because I want to keep this conversation going with you fine folks! 

Oh, I'm sure we'd have no difficulty keeping the mockery going and going...

Anyway, I just can't decide if Gimple and his crew are giving fans the big ol' finger, or if he actually thinks what they've created is good.

It seems there's going to be a whole bunch of job openings in the movie/TV industry. I'm thinking road trip so we can go en masse - maybe a convoy! -  and apply for writing jobs. There must be some so-called writers on this show who are going to get the boot.

We can pack lemonade and FidoBurgers for the road.

[festivus]

Great recap. I legit laughed out loud at this:

Quote

Michonne drops to her knees, looking more devastated at this development than Rick does. Rick seems to know that he should be upset, but can't quite pull it off. Probably because this solves more of his problems than he cares to admit.

It's funny cause it's true. How sad.

[AngelaHunter]

Okay from that recap I found the name of the only person on this show I can stand anymore. It's Gavin. He doesn't revel in sadism. He doesn't smirk, twirl his mustache and leer evilly. Best of all, he doesn't monologue every time he's on screen. He says and does what he has to do. This is just a job to him and one he doesn't particularly like.

Quote

 he and Enid are schlepping all the way out to Oceanside to try to convince that all-female community to join them in war. With what, hand tools and kitchen utensils? Y'all took all their guns, remember?

Even I remembered that. Maybe the writers didn't?

[Gobi]

52 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Okay from that recap I found the name of the only person on this show I can stand anymore. It's Gavin. He doesn't revel in sadism. He doesn't smirk, twirl his mustache and leer evilly. Best of all, he doesn't monologue every time he's on screen. He says and does what he has to do. This is just a job to him and one he doesn't particularly like.

Even I remembered that. Maybe the writers didn't?

I thought that, instead of shooting at windows, Rick and friends should have shot everyone on the platform except Gavin and Eugene (giving Eugene the benefit of the doubt). If they had done that, the war might have ended then and there.

[Raven1707]

On 12/11/2017 at 1:14 PM, peach said:

I have finally met someone IRL who thinks Negan is awesome and hilarious and the best character.  And that Rick is boring and terrible.  Pretty sad, considering the Rick Grimes who went into Terminus.  

For God's sake, don't just stand there! Run!

Or, if peaches can't run, roll!

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

instead of shooting at windows, Rick and friends should have shot everyone on the platform except Gavin and Eugene (giving Eugene the benefit of the doubt).

Yes, of course that makes sense but couldn't happen because getting rid of Kirkman's wet dream/alter ego isn't happening. I feel that watching this show is making me lose brain cells, thinking, "Maybe all this "I'm going to kill you. I"m going to kill you. Okay, here's my perfect opportunity to kill you. But I absolutely won't."  somehow makes sense and I'm just too dull to realize it.

What happened there would be the equivalent of when Rick killed Gareth with the machete. Instead of killing him, we'd see Rick hack up all the church pews. "There. See all these busted up seats? That will teach you."

Edited December 15, 2017 by AngelaHunter

[AllyS]

2 hours ago, peach said:

Well, I'm a little sad that there is no episode this weekend, because I want to keep this conversation going with you fine folks! 

I would like to see a "Very Merry Walking Dead" episode next Sunday night. Santa will bring gifts and decide who's on the naughty or nice list. He can bring a stash of teeny band aids, Daryl must needs some bolts for his crossbow and a new pregnancy test for Maggie just so we can be certain. The list can go on and on...

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, AllyS said:

Daryl must needs some bolts for his crossbow

"Soap on a Rope" might be better.

[AllyS]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

"Soap on a Rope" might be better.

Only if Santa's elves dragged him into the shower.

[festivus]

5 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Okay from that recap I found the name of the only person on this show I can stand anymore. It's Gavin. He doesn't revel in sadism. He doesn't smirk, twirl his mustache and leer evilly. Best of all, he doesn't monologue every time he's on screen. He says and does what he has to do. This is just a job to him and one he doesn't particularly like.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. That was about the only part of the episode that I liked.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, AllyS said:

Only if Santa's elves dragged him into the shower.

Or drove him in at gunpoint.

[AllyS]

24 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Or drove him in at gunpoint.

OMG!!! I laughed so hard I think I am now Mother Pee Pants!!!

[Smad]

13 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

They did a horrible job with Andrea and Michonne at Woodbury, and when they finally did some flashbacks of the two of them before they got to Woodbury.

They always do a terrible job. As someone after you said, several people managed to not communicate to Andrea what they knew. I hate that sort of storytelling. So much crap could be avoided if only people talked to each other. It's such a tired trope that probably will never go away. Michonne didn't have any concrete evidence about the governor. But would it have killed her to tell Andrea about the walkers that were locked up and the army vehicles with bullet holes and fresh blood on them? But instead she stays quiet and if I were Andrea I wouldn't leave WB either, not after that winter and just coming down from sickness.

13 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

If I was one of the slave/workers at the Savior Compound, or one of the communities they were extorting supplies and food from, I would probably sign on to get rid of them if it was with a group who could actually get the job done.  Rick's group couldn't stick to the plan for even one day.

To survive in this ZA, you need the Carol who took out Terminus, the Michonne who first showed up, Glen who called Rick the dumbass in the tank (how right Glen was), quick draw Carl who shot three Saviors before anyone else got their gun out (not the Carl who got bit by a Walker), Sasha, and Daryl from Season 2.

Reminds me of the S4 Finale. Rick seeing all the items (riot gear, orange backpack, poncho and watch) at the BBQ in Terminus and immediately freaking out. I literally did both #facepalm and #headdesk. Why would you do that? You have no idea of layout, manpower, firepower and so forth. So of course your first choice is drawing weapons on the Termites. If they hadn't been cannibals then Rick, Michonne, Daryl and Carl would have been dead. It's hard for me to believe sometimes that Rick used to be a cop. I guess he was just terrible at it. After all this is the genius that in the pilot turned his back on an unsecured scene and got himself shot. Why they always wrote Rick to be utterly inept at almost anything is a mystery to me to this day.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Smad

[allthatglitters]

On 12/10/2017 at 7:50 PM, gatopretoNYC said:

I'm just completely bored with the whole tons of gunshots, and blowing shit up that's been going on. That's all the show is these days. 

Me too.

And TWD isn't the only show these days that falls for that go-to fall back as an easy way out to solve a plot resolution. Doesn't hurt that it all looks exciting and pretty on the screen. The 100 is another of those shows.

I know we are supposed to suspend our disbelief for this series. I guess they figure if we can suspend it include a zombie apocalypse, then we'll believe anything. But we are supposed to accept that there is an unending supply of bullets still in the ZA?  Enough to spray around everywhere nonstop like a fire hose?  Unless they've set up an industrial bullet factory, for every type of weapon they use, they'd be soon be out of all the looted ammunition they've scavenged. Its been a few years now.

But the writers ignore that reality for the sake of hanging onto the trap door escape of a good old hollywood shoot out.

I'd still watch it if it was more realistic and they had to save  bullets for the exact right time. Learned and used bow and arrows, and other weaponary not dependent on already scavenged commercial supplys. If they had to also spare gasoline. And fight for it ie..Mad Max. Everything doesn't always have to end at the OK Coral.

[AngelaHunter]

6 hours ago, allthatglitters said:

But we are supposed to accept that there is an unending supply of bullets still in the ZA? 

Especially when just a week(?) or so ago, heads snapped around as Rosita and other CDBers stared as hungrily as beggars at a feast at the ONE empty shell casing that dropped on the street when Negan shot out a window. Guess that little problem was solved somehow and now they have more ammo and explosives than were used in the Battle of the Bulge. It's a miwwicle!

 

7 hours ago, Smad said:

After all this is the genius that in the pilot turned his back on an unsecured scene and got himself shot.

Yeah, and it's hard to imagine even the newest rookie doing such a thing. Actually it's hard to imagine even a non-cop being so nonchalant when there was no indication whether or not the perp was still alive and capable of shooting.

[Mu Shu]

19 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Okay from that recap I found the name of the only person on this show I can stand anymore. It's Gavin. He doesn't revel in sadism. He doesn't smirk, twirl his mustache and leer evilly. Best of all, he doesn't monologue every time he's on screen. He says and does what he has to do. This is just a job to him and one he doesn't particularly like.

Even I remembered that. Maybe the writers didn't?

Give him time.  He’s just three syllables from busting a monologue.  And he did talk about shit a lot, which lost points for me.  

[Kiki777]

17 hours ago, AllyS said:

I would like to see a "Very Merry Walking Dead" episode next Sunday night. Santa will bring gifts and decide who's on the naughty or nice list. He can bring a stash of teeny band aids, Daryl must needs some bolts for his crossbow and a new pregnancy test for Maggie just so we can be certain. The list can go on and on...

I'd love a musical episode- I mean if TWD has already jumped the shark, might as well.  A zombie flash mob.  Daryl sings some emo crap.  Jerry does some cute number for comic relief.  Rick sings about stuff and thangs whilst doing a little jig.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

He’s just three syllables from busting a monologue.  And he did talk about shit a lot, which lost points for me.  

Oh. Guess during the shit talk I was zoned out or maybe going in search of more wine. Guess I should pay more attention, by keeping a bucket of ice water near and dunking my face when I feel myself slipping into a boredom-induced coma.

 

1 hour ago, Kiki777 said:

I'd love a musical episode-

Someone did think this would make a good musical.

[Kiki777]

OMG that made my day!  Little Coral doing backflips *dead*

[heisenberg]

15 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

I'd love a musical episode- I mean if TWD has already jumped the shark, might as well.  A zombie flash mob.  Daryl sings some emo crap.  Jerry does some cute number for comic relief.  Rick sings about stuff and thangs whilst doing a little jig.

With the zombies and the garbage people dancing all around.

[bow]

Finally got caught up. Meh. That was pretty disappointing. 

No way are they going to kill Carl.

[Raven1707]

The Cable Live +3 ratings are in for Episode 808, "How It's Gotta Be":

The final “Walking Dead” episode of the season was — per usual — the biggest gainer from three days of delayed viewing in the week of Dec. 4.

The episode grew from a 3.4 rating to a 5.1 in adults 18-49 and from 7.9 million to 11.51 million viewers with three days of DVR catchup. No other show in the top 25 added more than 0.6 points to its 18-49 rating, and the next-biggest bump among total viewers (that of “Major Crimes”) was 1.69 million people.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/cable-live-3-ratings-for-dec-4-10-2017/

Here are the Live + Same Day and Live +3 ratings for the first half of Season 8:

10-22-17 “Mercy” 11.439 million; 15.047 million
10-29-17 “The Damned” 8.923 million; 12.247 million
11-05-17 “Monsters” 8.519 million; 12.086 million
11-12-17 “Some Guy” 8.688 million; 12.361 million
11-19-17 “The Big Scary U” 7.845 million; not reported
11-26-17 “The King, The Widow, & Rick” 8.282 million; 11.878 million
12-03-17 “Time For After” 7.468 million; 10.737 million
12-10-17 “How It’s Gotta Be” 7.885 million; 11.510 million

And I thought I'd post the equivalent ratings for the first half of Season 7, for comparison's sake:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million; 20.793 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million; 16.849 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million; 16.225 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million; 15.718 million
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million; 15.267 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million; 14.275 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million; 14.940 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million; 15.198 million

Seriously, that has to sting!

[nodorothyparker]

On 12/16/2017 at 0:19 PM, AngelaHunter said:

Oh. Guess during the shit talk I was zoned out or maybe going in search of more wine. Guess I should pay more attention, by keeping a bucket of ice water near and dunking my face when I feel myself slipping into a boredom-induced coma.

 

Someone did think this would make a good musical.

 

This is a hoot but at the same time all it is does is remind me of how little we've gotten in the way of anything memorable or iconic the last couple of seasons despite all the insistence that the show is hewing so much closer to the source material.  Every recognizable bit in this video is from season 4 or earlier.  If you wanted to do something similar from the last season or so what would you do?  Have cast members stand around jawing incessently at each other and periodically spray copious amounts of bullets in random directions.

[Kiki777]

Yeah it wouldn't fly - turning Neegan's lines into lyrics would create a number so long they'd have to stick an intermission right in the middle like in Gone with the Wind.

[Smad]

On 16.12.2017 at 5:14 PM, Kiki777 said:

I'd love a musical episode

Will the episode title be 'Thriller'?

2 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

Yeah it wouldn't fly - turning Neegan's lines into lyrics would create a number so long they'd have to stick an intermission right in the middle like in Gone with the Wind.

You have clearly never been to this youtube channel. Socka-2-May knows how to make the shows characters sing. 'Negan - Hot Diggity Dog/Tickles My Balls' is at almost 1 million views, just saying.

[stormy weather]

So you can now sign an online petition to fire Scott Gimple. It appears 50,000 fans of TWD already did so. I don't know if this is unprecedented in the history of television, but it's kinda crazy how we got to the point that viewers have to tell the showrunner his show sucks once the episodes have already been shot and aired. I mean, isn't there a team of co-writers, authors, producers, directors or even cast members, who can sense some choices are bad for the show and can veto them and suggest other options? How was everyone on board with this? 

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, stormy weather said:

isn't there a team of co-writers, authors, producers, directors or even cast members, who can sense some choices are bad for the show and can veto them and suggest other options? How was everyone on board with this? 

The same thing I was pondering upthread and came to the conclusion that there are only two options possible: Everyone thinks this is great television, or they know it's utter crap, don't give a shit and just figure they'll keep collecting salaries as long as they can.

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, stormy weather said:

So you can now sign an online petition to fire Scott Gimple. It appears 50,000 fans of TWD already did so. I don't know if this is unprecedented in the history of television, but it's kinda crazy how we got to the point that viewers have to tell the showrunner his show sucks once the episodes have already been shot and aired. I mean, isn't there a team of co-writers, authors, producers, directors or even cast members, who can sense some choices are bad for the show and can veto them and suggest other options? How was everyone on board with this? 

Unprecedented in the sense this may be the first significant use of online petitions as a tool to voice viewer dissatisfaction, maybe.  It’s certainly not the first viewer revolt (both Jericho and the original Twin Peaks come to mind), and in truth I don’t know if it’s of a volume to justify use of the “viewer revolt” label - yet  - but it may be the largest since the Internet made such tools available to users/viewers.  In the past we had to make do with phone calls, snail mail - and peanuts.  ;>

Edited December 18, 2017 by Nashville
Nuts!

[Nashville]

On 12/12/2017 at 6:09 AM, BetyBee said:

I've been hearing that Fear the Walking Dead has gotten much better (I don't watch).  

I do, and it hasn’t.

[AngelaHunter]

I doubt TPTB give a hoot for online petitions. They're easy to ignore. The only thing they and the multitudinous sponsors care about is how people are watching. If every viewer who is cheesed off and insulted does not watch the MSP, that would send a message.

[Nashville]

54 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I doubt TPTB give a hoot for online petitions. They're easy to ignore. The only thing they and the multitudinous sponsors care about is how people are watching. If every viewer who is cheesed off and insulted does not watch the MSP, that would send a message.

I agree 100%.  One of the greatest strengths of the online petition system - quick and easy online access - is also one of its greatest failings in terms of being taken seriously.  A few clicks, you type your name and email, and voila! - you just signed a petition!  Easy, wasn’t it?  But that’s the problem - it’s too easy.  There’s zero indication the people who signed the petition have any personal investment in the process, or its outcome.  

That’s the difference between what happened with TP and Jericho, and what’s happening now.  Someone takes the time to write out a letter, put a stamp on it and mail it?  Even if it’s just a piece of paper and a few cents for a stamp, that’s a personal investment of both time and money - whatever is being discussed, it meant enough for that person to go to the trouble to make their voice heard.  Same with a long distance phone call to the production studio.  And (in the case of Jericho) people going to the trouble of buying packages of peanuts - sometimes boxes of a pound or more - and shipping them cross-country to the studio, just to make a statement about a TV show!?!?  Better believe the studio paid attention to THAT - especially when they had to start paying for warehouse space to store all the damn peanuts.  But it communicated a message clear as all fuck: this shit mattered to their viewership, enough so for them to go above and beyond to make their voice heard.

So - compared to THAT, how much weight do you think a few clicks on an online petition carries in terms of communicating personal investment?  Heck - 2-3 days later, most people probably don’t remember signing the damn thing; it was just one of a few dozen web sites they visited that day.  And the studios know that.

An organized boycott large enough to measurably drop the ratings, though...?  Better believe Production would take note of THAT; their advertisers sure as hell will, as will AMC when they’re deciding which programs to renew next season.  It would take more work than an online petition, to be sure - but by the same token, a whole lot more weight would be attached to the results.

 

<Climbing down off the soapbox now...>

[AngelaHunter]

34 minutes ago, Nashville said:

An organized boycott large enough to measurably drop the ratings, though...?

Even though I still believe nothing can save this show, I'd be happy to boycott it and I wish everyone would, just to send a message that we're not as stupid as they seem to think we are - or as stupid as whoever came up with this dumb nonsense we've been watching. The viewing dropped this season by 7 million by the last ep. Imagine if it went to a few hundred thousand? Sponsers. Happy. Not.

[festivus]

I'm going to boycott. This board will be my only exposure. I can't give up the snark here.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

Even though I still believe nothing can save this show, I'd be happy to boycott it and I wish everyone would, just to send a message that we're not as stupid as they seem to think we are - or as stupid as whoever came up with this dumb nonsense we've been watching. The viewing dropped this season by 7 million by the last ep. Imagine if it went to a few hundred thousand? Sponsers. Happy. Not.

IMO the show could absolutely be saved. But the only thing that matters to ANY company is money. And AMC seems especially money hungry and stupid to boot. They cut the budget at any corner, from actors to writers to showrunner to sfx/cgi to locations...you name it. They also screwed creators out of the profit that they deserved which in the end will cost them even more if the lawsuits go through. Paying those people their fair share upfront would have been a lot cheaper. If they then had taken a little of the millions if not billion not lost in lawsuits and invested it in the show, it could still have the viewership it had 4 seasons ago. You have to spend to make profit, sometimes even take risks. Spend money on a good showrunner and writers and 60%+ of the problems with this show could be salvageable. But AMC's philosophy of cutting at every corner is one reason why the show has been tanking so hard for Seasons now, it's not just Gimple.

[AngelaHunter]

2 minutes ago, Smad said:

But AMC's philosophy of cutting at every corner is one reason why the show has been tanking so hard for Seasons now, it's not just Gimple.

I guess that's why Eugene got a jar filled with water and baby cukes, instead of actual pickles which would have cost more. Think of the budget! We know they certainly saved a bundle on whatever person they got to do the CGI dump and deer. How much could a real deer have cost?

 

17 minutes ago, festivus said:

This board will be my only exposure. I can't give up the snark here.

Same. "PreviouslyTV" addict here and I feel no shame about it.

[Smad]

3 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I guess that's why Eugene got a jar filled with water and baby cukes, instead of actual pickles which would have cost more. Think of the budget! We know they certainly saved a bundle on whatever person they got to do the CGI dump and deer. How much could a real deer have cost?

Not actually using pickles but instead some fake stuff I actually see as extra cost. The pickles can still be used after they are done shooting the scene, like by crafts services or the actors/crew munching on it when they are done. It's not like that jar will go bad or something after a couple hours of being opened. Instead they have to make something fake that look like pickles, likely never to be used again. And a jar of pickles doesn't cost that much. That fake stuff needs to be produced for a TV show and it can't be cheaper than actual pickles.

But that little stuff is not the most pressing issue with this show. The biggest problem is the creative team. The showrunner seems incapable of working with what little he gets from AMC. The writers and showrunner all know nothing about how people actually talk in real life. It's also a completely plot driven show and characters change over night to fit that plot. It's something that Gimple has been doing since he took over in S4. As a plot they wanted someone from the main group to be exiled and the only character they could do that with was Carol even though it made no sense for her character. The same reasons used back then are the same reasons for her crappy S6B arc, they needed a main group member to introduce us to the Kingdom and Carol was the only possible option for that. And that's just 2 examples for one character that were completely plot driven. And all the characters who jump around from 'kill everyone' to either 'all life is precious' or 'we don't kill the living' or 'we have to live with them afterwards' etc. practically over night is something most people here have caught on to.

This show should be a character drama. A good showrunner knows how to develop characters organically to get them to where they need them to be for the plot. They don't have to resort to cheap tricks like OOC behavior or complete character transplants. I don't understand how AMC thought Gimple would be a good idea, considering his credits before TWD. But my guess is, he's cheap and AMC likes cheap.

[CharethCutestory]

11 hours ago, stormy weather said:

So you can now sign an online petition to fire Scott Gimple. It appears 50,000 fans of TWD already did so. I don't know if this is unprecedented in the history of television, but it's kinda crazy how we got to the point that viewers have to tell the showrunner his show sucks once the episodes have already been shot and aired. I mean, isn't there a team of co-writers, authors, producers, directors or even cast members, who can sense some choices are bad for the show and can veto them and suggest other options? How was everyone on board with this? 

I remember back when Beth died there was a petition to bring her back that got over 100,000 signatures. Obviously that couldn't and didn't happen. I may be in the minority but I loved the Beth character, particularly what they were building her up to and she filled a unique age and niche in that world. Same as Carl for his generation. Her relationship with Daryl was interesting and in its infancy. Then boom, obliterated character development, for a cheap shock death that made zero sense plot wise. I was gutted by that one. Then I was disgusted when I heard how they treated Emily Kinney. Like Chandler she was lead to believe she had an arc with longevity, bought an apartment and they fired her out of the blue and really cruelly. Her crying on TTD was hard to watch. That's just not how you treat people that give years of their life and a lot of heart to a show/business. That was the first time since Gimple took over that I thought, uh oh. These writers along with Gimple map out entire seasons, they know full well where the story is going and when someone is getting the axe. Especially a major character that the show hinges on like Carl.  Just be decent and tell them upfront before they make any major and monetary commitments.

[Yolapukka]

I won't be boycotting, that implies an active interest I've entirely lost. I will simply cease to watch it. I doubt I could be drawn back into it if Carl's death turns out to be another ridiculous fake-out, because I'm not really interested in a show that would repeatedly pull those kind of stunts either. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by yuggapukka

[spiderpig]

I'm fine with Coral buying the farm if it moves this plot out of neutral.  Enough, already.

Now, Rick - kill Negan before I jump into my screen and do it myself.  Follow the helicopter.  Do SOMETHING!  We're tired of roaming around the backwoods of Georgia.  Or Virginia.  Or whatever.

[Mr. Sparkle]

10 hours ago, yuggapukka said:

I won't be boycotting, that implies an active interest I've entirely lost. I will simply cease to watch it. I doubt I could be drawn back into it if Carl's death turns out to be another ridiculous fake-out, because I'm not really interested in a show that would repeatedly pull those kind of stunts either. 

If Carl's death turns out to be a fake-out, I am done. That's probably the only thing that'll get me to stop watching, but the writers might take that as a challenge. 

[Lady Iris]

I still have the last two eps of TWD sitting on my dvr without an urge to watch them yet. I remember a time that would've been unthinkable. Carl was never a favorite of mine but he deserves better than some nibble from a walker to take him down.

Also, why is this show determined to make me turn and hate Daryl? First they make him the cause of Glen's death and now they made him the reason the Saviors got away ruining whatever plan was unraveling over the course of an endless day via multiple episodes. I want my smart ass-confrontational-short haired-kick ass-chip-on-his-shoulder 1st season Daryl back!!!

[AngelaHunter]

16 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

Also, why is this show determined to make me turn and hate Daryl?

I know! He used to be the person you'd want to CYA in an apocalypse. Now he's a mopey, dumbass jinx with no impulse control and who can't do anything right.

IMO, they did the same to Glenn - took away his quirky, interesting personality and turned him into such a dreary, sanctimonious bore that I didn't even care when he got killed.

[Smad]

4 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

Also, why is this show determined to make me turn and hate Daryl? First they make him the cause of Glen's death and now they made him the reason the Saviors got away ruining whatever plan was unraveling over the course of an endless day via multiple episodes. I want my smart ass-confrontational-short haired-kick ass-chip-on-his-shoulder 1st season Daryl back!!!

I think I prefer S2 Daryl. The Sophia arc dragged but it was great character development for him during that arc and after. It's another thing I blame Gimple for, he didn't seem to have any idea who Daryl was and what worked about his character.

4 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

IMO, they did the same to Glenn - took away his quirky, interesting personality and turned him into such a dreary, sanctimonious bore that I didn't even care when he got killed.

To me Glenn took a turn for the worst when he was paired up with Maggie. Everything interesting about him almost went away completely. He was just boring. Both him and Maggie tended to be more interesting characters when they were separated. And don't get me started on 'my girlfriend was almost raped and it's all about me and my pain and anger in regards to that event'. Not something I expected from Glenn because he didn't seem that kind of guy.

[AngelaHunter]

49 minutes ago, Smad said:

To me Glenn took a turn for the worst when he was paired up with Maggie. Everything interesting about him almost went away completely. He was just boring.

Yes! Their lovey-dovey, "our love is bigger than all the love in the world"  all the time was totally insipid. It's like no one writing on this show knows one single thing about the way people act and feel. It didn't help that I saw not the least bit of chemistry between them. Maggie's expression always seemed to convey, "Are you done yet?"

51 minutes ago, Smad said:

And don't get me started on 'my girlfriend was almost raped and it's all about me and my pain and anger in regards to that event'.

That's exactly the way I saw it and no one agreed with me. Maggie's terror, humiliation and near rape? He never mentioned that. To me, it seemed all he really wanted to know if anyone else had been in his territory and acted as though it were somehow her fault. I really hated him in that ep.

[Smad]

2 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Yes! Their lovey-dovey, "our love is bigger than all the love in the world"  all the time was totally insipid. It's like no one writing on this show knows one single thing about the way people act and feel. It didn't help that I saw not the least bit of chemistry between them. Maggie's expression always seemed to convey, "Are you done yet?"

Never understood the hype of that couple anyway. Like you said, zero chemistry. Which made all the shmoopiness even worse than it already was. And I couldn't deal with the constant 'Maggie !!!!' and 'Glenn!!!!' and 'I have to find/get back to my wife/husband' drivel. As if they are the only two people in the world that mattered. Who is Beth again?

5 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

That's exactly the way I saw it and no one agreed with me. Maggie's terror, humiliation and near rape? He never mentioned that. To me, it seemed all he really wanted to know if anyone else had been in his territory and acted as though it were somehow her fault. I really hated him in that ep.

Oh, I saw some people say it back then but not nearly enough IMO. Thankfully Maggie shut that sh*t down. When they were at the prison and she recounted what happened and ended it with a pissed off 'you happy? now get out.'. That whole thing made no sense. When they were put together in one room after their torture, Glenn calmly asked if she was ok and if it went that far. She reassured him that nothing happened and he stayed calm. Suddenly in the next episode he's in Hulk like rage screaming at Rick and kicking zombie skulls in. And that continued into the next episodes. It was one of those plot things again where a character needed a sudden personality transplant. It seemed like they wanted to do the whole 'partner makes the sexual violation of their love all about themselves and said love gives them the middle finger for that crap' kind of story. Which in and of itself is greatly appreciated from my end. Except it violated both Glenn's reaction previously and Glenn as a character would never react that way, he's not the type.

[heisenberg]

For me the plot is not the problem, the story is fine.  It is the way it is executed that bugs me. 

People get together to make war to Negan,  this is the plot and how it is supposed to be. But you start by going up and down in the timeline for no reason, show groups doing stuff without knowing where they are and what their purpose/plan is.  Then you make a confrontation with your enemy who is making a speech in the open while no one shoots at him!?!?! 

People, trucks and cars going all over the place (Would have been better with the Benny hill music) without any explanations? 

Unlimited fuel and ammo? 

Rick goes to meet garbage people and become a prisoner, a gladiator than a leader?

Negan takes back the control while he was down to the ground with us not knowing WTF is happening?

Maggie gets a free pass and go home?

Carl wandering alone in the woods with a 1950's jerrican in seach of fuel while the others are waisting the equivalent of a super tanker?

Eugene?

Etc... Etc... Etc...

 

This is how you destroy what should have been a good story.

[AngelaHunter]

36 minutes ago, Smad said:

. Except it violated both Glenn's reaction previously and Glenn as a character would never react that way, he's not the type.

Exactly. They turned him into one of these insecure, raving wannabe-macho guys who thinks "his woman" might have secretly enjoyed being raped and was maybe making comparisons. All we needed was for Glenn to ask, "Is his dick bigger than mine?" None of that fitted with Glenn's character.

38 minutes ago, Smad said:

And I couldn't deal with the constant 'Maggie !!!!' and 'Glenn!!!!' and 'I have to find/get back to my wife/husband' drivel.

I felt the same way, like *gag* and I usually have no problem with romance at all. In fact I rather enjoy it when it doesn't appear to be written and directed by 13 year old girls.

18 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

Carl wandering alone in the woods with a 1950's jerrican in seach of fuel

Is that what he was doing? I kept zoning out. He expected to find a gas station in the woods?

 

19 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

Rick goes to meet garbage people and become a prisoner, a gladiator than a leader?

Surreal and fantastical, that was. I really nearly enjoyed the WTF-ery of that part.

 

20 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

People, trucks and cars going all over the place (Would have been better with the Benny hill music) without any explanations? 

I already did one Benny Hill vid (of Dumb and Dumber chasing Ninja Jesus all over the place) for this show. Don't tempt me to do another.

[Smad]

28 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I already did one Benny Hill vid (of Dumb and Dumber chasing Ninja Jesus all over the place) for this show. Don't tempt me to do another.

I DARE YOU. :p

[AngelaHunter]

20 minutes ago, Smad said:

I DARE YOU. :p

To borrow the famous last words of the dearly departed and greatly lamented Neil(RIP), "Oh, shit!"