PODCAST S02.E01 Go Pirates!: This Is Neptune. Nothing Happens Accidentally.

[Primetimer]

The second-season premiere of Veronica Mars crams 09 pounds of plot into a five-pound bag before ending on a literal cliffhanger.

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[Primetimer]

What's wrong with this picture?, and other questions raised by the most important screenshots from S02.E01.

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[WhosThatGirl]

Count me as another who never got the reason for the breakup. It’s a great scene but it doesn’t ever add up for me.

Also.. yeah the show having her go back to Duncan because.. they wanted a conflict and yes after everything that went down in season 1 it never made any sort of sense.

Season 2 was a lot of hit and miss for me, mostlymiss. Season 1 had some misses but it made more sense.

[Jeffurry]

Bye bye, Naima.

[Jeffurry]

"Not to speak ill of the about-to-be-dead, but what is this outfit."

Somehow I suspect a TyraMail was involved.

[ehr1006]

Yes! It's Naima!!

[BBHN]

Quote

Not to speak ill of the about-to-be-dead, but what is this outfit.

With an outfit like that, speak all you want to.

[BBHN]

Trying not to ruin this for anyone who hasn't seen the show yet, but...weren't the 09-ers supposed to be on that bus? Haven't heard the podcast so not sure if it was mentioned there or not, but...

Spoiler

If Beaver was the one who was responsible for the bus accident, why was he about to get on the bus for the return trip? Didn't one of the 09-ers parents send them the car to use instead as a surprise? Or did they reveal Beaver planned that too and I forgot that detail?

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, BBHN said:

Trying not to ruin this for anyone who hasn't seen the show yet, but...weren't the 09-ers supposed to be on that bus? Haven't heard the podcast so not sure if it was mentioned there or not, but...

  Hide contents

If Beaver was the one who was responsible for the bus accident, why was he about to get on the bus for the return trip? Didn't one of the 09-ers parents send them the car to use instead as a surprise? Or did they reveal Beaver planned that too and I forgot that detail?

There was a bad smell on the bus

Spoiler

Dead rat Keith later finds the first time he falsified evidencevto protect veronica

Spoiler

 

 

The whitecastles call their dad to send a limo. 

[Libby521]

I think Lily saved Veronica. I don't think Duncan is that bad in this episode. I think he's just relieved to see Veronica. Gia, who doesn't know anybody can cry out, "They're all dead!" But Veronica and Duncan are stunned...assuming Meg is dead.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Libby521

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Of COURSE it's Naima, I can't believe I missed that. Amahzing.

[Clare]

I'm really looking forward to season two.  The overall mystery may not be as interesting but in a lot of ways I like season 2 more then season 1.  I like the episodes better,  I think Wallace is better,   more Mac.  I think a lot of other characters get better stories.  I watched the first episode and I will have to stop myself from staying in binging the whole thing over the weekend. I also think the production looks so much better,  they obviously have a bit more money to work with.  Everyone looks just a bit better.

Still can't get over her getting back with Duncan, yuck.  He's the worst.  I get breaking up with Logan but Duncan is not the nice guys they always tried to make him.  He sucks.  I do like salty Meg though, hee hee.

[Affogato]

The riverdance kick choreography is wonderful. I wonder if Dohring was just messing around and they kept it or if it comes from some other movie. So much of what Logan does when he's being 'heroic' or showy in some way is very theatrical.

[Affogato]

Okay the one thing in this episode my mind snagged on was that Keith jumps into the room really fast, he is obviously waiting outside the door, and Logan doesn't actually threaten her. Oh, I get that he wants them apart and doesn't trust Veronica to follow through if she feels sorry for Logan, but it makes me think Veronica talked about it before hand. Which makes sense, it just didn't initially come to mind. 

I still maintain this show isn't a romance and this proves it. I think it is a lot more like an 'American graffiti' show with added Veronica, 'we used to be friends, a long time ago.' Still only me, huh? 

Why they broke up? Well, last year we had this long bunch of interaction with Liane (Lianne?), someone from Veronica's halcyon days before Lilly was killed, and her mother. Veronica forgives her for running out, which is an egregious sin for a mother, supports her with rehab, and accepts her into her home. When she learns Liane never had any desire to quit drinking and probably came back because she needed a place to live and maybe a joint bank account, Veronica told her to leave. Veronica knows she was right because of the stolen check. 

So, here's Logan. He's an old friend from her halcyon days before Lilly died and she has forgiven him horrible sins( persistent long term bullying, assault, bum fights). He has called the shots because of the horrible things that have happened to him. She has supported him through all his major traumas. Now, having gotten him through the Felix hearings (and we don't see one flash of a moment when he is supporting her, even bringing her a pizza and a movie when she'd down) she finds out he has burned down the community center. This is the Bum Fights 2, it hurts a lot of innocent people for his private purposes.  Like her mother he hasn't changed, she has given him a lot of chances, and now is the time to break it off.

Veronica does learn from experience. 

I think the mystery of the week had to involve Wallace because who else could 'drag her back in'? The heroes journey requires a rejection of the quest, by the way, and I'm sure that Keith is the one that pushes the 'normal life' (why can't you do your nails and talk on the phone like a normal teenager?' he whines.} Veronica's main flaw is her need to please others and she is easily swayed by Keith, he makes a convincing argument, but once she is back in, she'd in.

I don't think Veronica is buddies with Dick. I think Dick is still cringing from Logan telling him that anyone who hurts Veronica is dead to him. For her own part Veronica knows how lonely Logan is.

Love how Beaver/Cassidy is around, the look of guilt when Veronica catches his eye and they are loading the gasoline. Wonder what is up with him, eh?

Duncan comes to the coffee shop every day, not stalking, reading. He is there for her if she wants. Unlike Logan, Keith and everyone else he doesn't want her help, doesn't want her to be someone else. It is pretty romantic to me and it works. She needs someone who will let her find herself. 

Gia is great. 

Veronica's spirit guide appears when she is about to be thrown back into the Noir world of her Quest! As well as Weevil, one of her mentors. Yay.

[Racj82]

I remain perplexed by the constant bashing of Duncan/Teddy Dunn. I know it may be partially just in comparison to his much better actors but he's really not that bad. I wasn't even aware Teddy was this highly mocked until I started listening to podcasts. He's fine to me. Not great but not bad either. Growing up in a world with many blocks of wood playing teen dudes or hunks in primetime soaps and high school set shows, he barely registers to me.

Dohring stands out more to me as someone who gets praised constantly but I see nothing special in him. Fast forward to iZombie and you see he can't go to more than one mode in acting. It's all the same. He's a likeable guy to me but meh as actor most of the time.

[pau]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I remain perplexed by the constant bashing of Duncan/Teddy Dunn. I know it may be partially just in comparison to his much better actors but he's really not that bad. I wasn't even aware Teddy was this highly mocked until I started listening to podcasts. He's fine to me. Not great but not bad either. Growing up in a world with many blocks of wood playing teen dudes or hunks in primetime soaps and high school set shows, he barely registers to me.

Dohring stands out more to me as someone who gets praised constantly but I see nothing special in him. Fast forward to iZombie and you see he can't go to more than one mode in acting. It's all the same. He's a likeable guy to me but meh as actor most of the time.

I disagree, i find Jason Dohring very versatile, his role in iZombie is pretty different. To me he has the same type of versatile acting (and charisma) as a Ryan Gosling, shrug.

Edited December 4, 2017 by pau

[Clare]

I think with Jason Dohring it was just the right combination of the character, writing and his chemistry with KB.  I've seen him in other things and I think he is  just ok but I do think the role of Logan is perfect for him.  I think that happens to a lot of actors. 

Teddy Dunn to me is bad but he's also written terribly,  he left the profession after this role because he realized he wasn't good, didn't enjoy it. I feel a little bad for him. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Clare

[Racj82]

4 hours ago, pau said:

I disagree, i find Jason Dohring very versatile, his role in iZombie is pretty different. To me he has the same type of versatile acting (and charisma) as a Ryan Gosling, shrug.

Well you are in the majority. I just don't agree. He works for the character but I find nothing versatile about him.

[pau]

On 05/12/2017 at 2:34 AM, Racj82 said:

Well you are in the majority. I just don't agree. He works for the character but I find nothing versatile about him.

Yeah, indeed we disagree. To me he is pretty versatile, he can do vulnerability but also sneaky, tortured, funny, nonchalant, aloof, menacing but also scornful, scared, scary, sad, playful, charming, lost, juvenile ect.. in a very realistic way..pretty versatile like i said. He also impress me because in one second he can play 'dorky socially awkward' and the second after 'really alpha confident attractive', also his little gestures he add are so realistic, sometimes awkward like in real life, it is kind of mesmerizing and endearing to watch. 

As someone who do theater/acting, it is my opinion. I find his emotional palette very relatable and 'real' and quite fascinating.

Edited December 6, 2017 by pau

[Pogojoco]

Of COURSE it's Naima, I can't believe I missed that. Amahzing.

She won that part on a Top Model challenge (yes, I remember that.) I, too, love Gia. Krysten Ritter for all the wins.

[John Potts]

I can't believe V would tolerate Dick if she had heard what he said about her at Shelly Pomeroy's party. If what we saw (in A Trip to the Dentist) was what he recalled happening (IIRC, along the lines of, "Even you [Beaver] shouldn't have trouble banging an unconscious chick!") but what he said was something like, "We left you in the spare bedroom. Beaver said you looked kinda hot" which would still be creepy as hell but wouldn't be an encitement to rape an unconscious girl - then maybe as part of her desire to fit in with the 09ers she'd tolerate his presence. But she's never been the type to forgive & forget, so it's one hell of a stretch.

Spoilers for the bus crash mystery:

Spoiler

There are a number of problems with Beaver as the mastermind behind the bus crash. If it was to silence the two classmates who were going to confront Woody, wouldn't he blow it up before not after the trip? And if he wanted to hurt Woody, wouldn't he want Gia ON the bus, not safe in the limo?

[rroth]

For me the bashing of Teddy Dunn, while entirely warranted, is taking up WAY too much bandwidth on these podcasts. Especially this episode. I realize you guys have had a couple of weeks off so maybe a little withdrawal or something is going on but please. This dead horse has been beaten to subatomic particles.  Going forward, I propose a cap of one "Log" jingle and one wood pun per episode.

[Affogato]

20 hours ago, John Potts said:

I can't believe V would tolerate Dick if she had heard what he said about her at Shelly Pomeroy's party. If what we saw (in A Trip to the Dentist) was what he recalled happening (IIRC, along the lines of, "Even you [Beaver] shouldn't have trouble banging an unconscious chick!") but what he said was something like, "We left you in the spare bedroom. Beaver said you looked kinda hot" which would still be creepy as hell but wouldn't be an encitement to rape an unconscious girl - then maybe as part of her desire to fit in with the 09ers she'd tolerate his presence. But she's never been the type to forgive & forget, so it's one hell of a stretch.

Spoilers for the bus crash mystery:

  Hide contents

There are a number of problems with Beaver as the mastermind behind the bus crash. If it was to silence the two classmates who were going to confront Woody, wouldn't he blow it up before not after the trip? And if he wanted to hurt Woody, wouldn't he want Gia ON the bus, not safe in the limo?

 

It is an interesting point but d I think the most important point is that she blames herself for taking the drink that she didn't see poured. Period. We never see her take revenge on Madison, so as much as she despises Madison she doesn't attack her for it. She went to a party, was attacked by a bunch of assholes who she already knew didn't like her and ended up in bed with someone she loved. She won't be drinking in situations like that in the future.

Logan is kind of an outcast himself, at this point no longer the 'king of the '09ers' but still with some cachet of money and notoriety. Duncan isn't that interested. The kids at school who aren't '09ers  think she's defected, but she isn't going to the mall with Caitlin and Madison and Shelley. She isn't really interested in being an '09er she is interested in knowing a few of her old friends.

So, why do you think she'd never forgive Dick and don't mention Logan, who was worse?

Edited December 7, 2017 by Affogato
formatting fight

[John Potts]

4 hours ago, Affogato said:

So, why do you think she'd never forgive Dick and don't mention Logan, who was worse?

While Logan initially supplied the GHB, I don't think he was there when Dick was "encouraging" Beaver to lose his virginity with the (unconscious) Veronica. IIRC, he intended the recipients to be Madison & Duncan so they'd chill out & have a good time (without informing them first, which is disturbing in its own right). So while he was at the start of the chain of events that led to Veronica's rape, it wasn't his intention.

[FWIW, I was never a fan of LoVe and I thought Veronica's blaming of Madison was completely unreasonable]

[Affogato]

41 minutes ago, John Potts said:

While Logan initially supplied the GHB, I don't think he was there when Dick was "encouraging" Beaver to lose his virginity with the (unconscious) Veronica. IIRC, he intended the recipients to be Madison & Duncan so they'd chill out & have a good time (without informing them first, which is disturbing in its own right). So while he was at the start of the chain of events that led to Veronica's rape, it wasn't his intention.

[FWIW, I was never a fan of LoVe and I thought Veronica's blaming of Madison was completely unreasonable]

[Affogato]

logan egged on people who were groping Veronica, there is independent confirmation  he led and participated in an actual sexual assault (salt lick  )he drugged Duncan in part to distract him from helping Veronica. also bullying . So worse than Dick towards Veronica. He has a hell of a deflector shield. 

madison is consistently nasty to Veronica in small ways  Veronica doesn’t retaliate. 

I don’t think she hates Madison because she gave her the drink. I think she knows she did something dumb and nasty little madison is there to make sure there is nothing forgiving about the world. I don’t think V actually blames her  like thinks she’s culpable.

if were both here when she runs up against Veronica in season three I’ll tell you why I think so.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Affogato

[pau]

On 07/12/2017 at 9:19 PM, Affogato said:

So, why do you think she'd never forgive Dick and don't mention Logan, who was worse?

 

WTF...i could not disagree more..Logan gave GHB to Duncan which was really stupid and totally 'teenage bro like' bad behaviour and he encouraged some guys with the salt lick which was awful , although never did it himself..But it was not comparable what's so ever to what Dick did to Veronica in the guest room..not comparable what's so ever..and i can tell that with a firm conviction from a point of view of a young woman (me). And i don't see how he has a deflector shield..he never made excuses for himself or used somebody as a deflector, it is just not true.

Edited December 9, 2017 by pau

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, pau said:

WTF...i could not disagree more..Logan gave GHB to Duncan which was really stupid and totally 'teenage bro like' and he encouraged some guys with the salt lick  , although never did it himself..But it was not comparable what's so ever to what Dick did to Veronica in the guest room..not comparable what's so ever..and i can tell that with a firm conviction from a point of view of a young woman (me). And i don't see how he has a deflector shield..he never made excuses for himself or used somebody as a deflector, it is just not true.

I meant that people watching the show seem to think he is a better, nicer, less culpable person than the show shows him to be. 

However dick is Logan’s friend and follower and tormented Veronica on Logan’s say so and stopped when Logan told him to stop.

Dick intended to rape madison.

He verbally abused beaver and earlier groped and mocked Veronica, just like his good buddy Logan did, however Beaver raped Veronica , Not Dick.

[pau]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

I meant that people watching the show seem to think he is a better, nicer, less culpable person than the show shows him to be. 

However dick is Logan’s friend and follower and tormented Veronica on Logan’s say so and stopped when Logan told him to stop.

Dick intended to rape madison.

He verbally abused beaver and earlier groped and mocked Veronica, just like his good buddy Logan did, however Beaver raped Veronica , Not Dick.

Dick also dared Beaver to rape Veronica..so he will always be worse than Logan, as far as i am concerned. And i don't even talk about Dick's usual misogynistic bro attitude (his attitude in general but particularly toward Madison, his girlfriend in highschool)..something Logan called him out about several times..both characters were messed up..in part because of their environment and upbringing but Dick and his entitled, selfish behaviour and lack of self-awareness was another level.

It is not even comparable even if Logan's behaviour was questionable more than once and he owned it.

Edited December 9, 2017 by pau

[Megget00]

The breakup worked for me. Veronica was scared. Logan is setting pools on fire and lying about it. She said his actions could lead to more deaths. He’s not toning it down. Why would she want to be with him at this point? 

[Sulis]

Racj82, I agree about Teddy Dunn - I don't find him terrible at all. He's not as good as the others, certainly, but I've seen a lot worse. Plus I'm not sure his character is supposed to be as charismatic as Logan. I didn't watch this show at the time (not sure it was on in the UK, tbh) so I had no idea what the consensus was on him. I do find the extensive criticism a bit jarring though.

And the breakup worked for me too.

[Affogato]

On 12/4/2017 at 5:34 PM, Clare said:

I think with Jason Dohring it was just the right combination of the character, writing and his chemistry with KB.  I've seen him in other things and I think he is  just ok but I do think the role of Logan is perfect for him.  I think that happens to a lot of actors.

I think dohrings work with Harry Hamlin is impressive in particular on the show.  If he had done more I think we’d see he had real versatile talent . He doesn’t have that much of a portfolio as near as I can tell so pretty much zilch? 

I think a lot of tv actors get hired for some sort of persona they project and get stuck there. Or movie actors. Tom Cruise(who I don’t like btw) plays the same person in most of his roles and individuates himself with the stunts but he occasionally does a movie where he shows he has a greater range.  He just doesn’t use it that often. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Affogato

[LeGrandElephant]

When Duncan sees Veronica didn’t die, his acting just isn’t up to par. He still seems bland and normal. If it were Logan in that scene the expression would have said so much more.