S03.E07: eps3.6_fredrick+tanya.chk

[shapeshifter]

Quote

Mr. Robot wants answers; the FBI closes in; Angela hits the rewind button.

They don't call it the *dark* Army for nothing.

Esmail created a truly compassionate view of suicide bombers/pilots/hackers as duped pawns. 

In this episode Angela depicts the True Believer who cannot bear to face reality—an episode coincidentally broadcast the day after the death of infamous, murderous cult leader Charles Manson, who, not unlike White Rose, brainwashed vulnerable young people who were separated from their parents (like Elliot and Angela, and also Mobly/Fredrick and Trenton/Tanya) to kill for an ultimately senseless cause so s/he (Manson or White Rose) could feel powerful.

The file extension attached to this episode title is .chk. This page:
https://superuser.com/questions/124690/what-can-i-do-with-chk-files-in-found-000-folders/226466
—contains a wealth of potential double entendres related to Mobly/Fredrick and Trenton/Tanya with regards to the definition and purpose and fate of .chk files.

Edited November 23, 2017 by shapeshifter

[Miles]

Poor Mobly and Trenton. Really, I knew they were dead, the moment I saw the setup in the garage. Still I held out hope till the last second when the special forces team entered. I thought maybe this time would be different. Maybe they would somehow be saved in the nick of time. But then that wouldn't have really been Mr. Robot, would it? We love this show for how brutally realistic it is. Still, I'm sad.

[JohnSmithSensei]

Ugh, this so reminded me of when Jack failed to save President Hassan in 24. And throwing in that comedic escape attempt was just a little extra salt in the wound.

[Neurochick]

This show makes me think of a line from a 1979 reggae song by The Mighty Sparrow called "Wanted Dead or Alive.", the line is "Politicians turn too soon from poor people into tycoons/Corruption must bring harass."  

Elliot and his group wanted a revolution and the revolutionary is seen as a romantic figure.  But what Esmail, I think, is trying to convey is that there will always be someone at the top controlling things.  Whiterose has used everybody to control what she wants.

I still wonder how USA was able to allow all the "F" words into a commercial/cable show.  I know FX does it but I'm still surprised at USA. 

This isn't a spoiler but I'll put it behind spoiler tags because it's just my opinion but

Spoiler

I don't think the show will end with Elliot's death, I think Elliot and Mr. Robot will unite and he/they will become the new Whiterose.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Neurochick

[mxc90]

I hope Santiago gets the death he deserves!

I wonder who is going to receive Trenton's email.

Mobley. A true backseat driver would have guided Trenton to freedom.

Edited November 23, 2017 by mxc90

[unicorn23]

Man alive, Whiterose is the very definition of "petty AF."

I want Elliot, Darlene, Angela, Tyrell, and Dom (and maybe Price) to team up together and taken down Whiterose. That is one hell of a team right there.

This season has truly been quite excellent and I can't wait to see what is in store for the rest of the season.

[shapeshifter]

38 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

Mobley. A true backseat driver would have guided Trenton to freedom.

But that was not going to be their fate. At least it provided a badly needed moment of comic relief.

[Anela]

I knew they were dead, and that White Rose would be out of there - they've used that setup before, with the timelines looking like they're going at the same time, when they aren't, so I expect it now. Sad, though. I was hoping they would make it out alive. This season feels like a final season, because everyone's dying. 

I thought Tyrell had a daughter. I was naive, thinking he was trying to do the right thing. Of course he was told to give himself up. 

I'm glad Dom isn't fooled. She knows who is really behind it all. Her boss trying to keep his mother from talking about him warning her - I wonder if she will ignore him, and talk. 

[Chaos Theory]

I would hate to play chess with White Rose.    Then again life is one big chess board to her isn't it?  

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, mxc90 said:

I hope Santiago gets the death he deserves!

I double and triple your hope. He is a traitor and a scumbag, worries about his mom while smirking at the death of Tyrell's wife and using his baby as leverage to keep him silent.

The set-up of Trenton and Mobley as fall guys, all the better to blame the attacks on the usual Muslim, Iranian-backed terrorists, was so sad.  I had hoped against hope that they would survive. That the powerful make pawns of everyone else is Esmail's point but it gets depressing when all the characters one invests in are disposable pawns. Why Whiterose doesn't get rid of remaining loose ends Elliot, Darlene and Angela is a mystery but then we wouldn't have a show. Much as Angela has infuriated me, seeing her restore people to life by rewinding video reveals just how far gone she is.

I'm not sure where this goes now, because Whiterose has everything she used 5/9 to get. I agree that Dom and the Aldersons will get together to attempt to bring Whiterose down.

[Chaos Theory]

From what I understand the Angela for all her faults has become a true believer in White Rose which makes her extremely useful.    White Rose could ask her to do almost anything and she would do it without asking twice which is a big thing for White Rose.

Elliot and Darlene are both useful pawns.  Elliot is “the architect of the revolution” and as long as he is alive White Rose can use his ideas, genius and mental illness to forward her own agenda.  Darlene is a useful tool to control Elliot.

[Milaxx]

More and more I am beginning to think this is all just a power play by Whiterose carefully cloaked in theater.  I noticed a few weeks ago that the free perk on the E-coin website always plays prominently in that week's episode.  This week it was ringtones from the shows music supervisor.  So I paid attention to the music. Knight Rider for Leon was nice comic relief.  It was interesting to note the music playing when Irving took Mr. Robot to the party those rich people were having the song playing was "send in the clowns." a song about which Sonheim wrote,

Quote

"As I think of it now, the song could have been called "Send in the Fools". I knew I was writing a song in which Desirée is saying, "aren't we foolish" or "aren't we fools?" Well, a synonym for fools is clowns, but "Send in the Fools" doesn't have the same ring to it."

I think WR views these people as fools. They think they are rich, powerful and above it all, but it's really people like her who have the real power whereas folks like Trump & Price merely think they are powerful.  Whiterose uses true believers like Elliot, Mr. Robot, Tyrell & Angela and creates a sort of theater that caters to their beliefs in order to get them to do her bidding. That safe house Leon brought Trenton & Mobley to appears to be the same one Angela was in. Only this time it was set up to make Trenton & Mobley look like terrorist. Remember back in  Ep 3x3 he told the talk show guy to start a rumor that "put fsociety's origin on  Iranian soil" When Red Wheelbarrow was burned they made it appear as if Tyrell had been kidnapped. Now that WR has achieved her goals she's tying up loose ends and letting the minions take the fall. She's the ultimate puppet master. 

I still can't figure out the meaning/reasoning behind having the same actress playing young Angela's doppelganger in Awesome episode. I may dive into the Reddit threads and see what they are saying over there.

My questions are:  What's the purpose in the same actress play Angels'a doppleganger in 2x11 and young Angela in a flashback in 3x6. 

What about the CERN theory. I still think there is something to WR's obsession with time I'm mising.

Who did Trenton trust enough to send that email to? Darlene? Dom? Some unknown?

Why is the party at  Mar-a-Lago men only?

Edited November 26, 2017 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The file extension attached to this episode title is .chk. This page:
https://superuser.com/questions/124690/what-can-i-do-with-chk-files-in-found-000-folders/226466
—contains a wealth of potential double entendres related to Mobly/Fredrick and Trenton/Tanya with regards to the definition and purpose and fate of .chk files.

This is really nice info. Basically they are lost files that are created when file operations are interrupted abnormally. You can rename them and recover them (such as Trenton & Mobley renaming themselves Tanya & Frederick) or you can delete them ( as when they were killed). Most often these types of files end up not being that important.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Milaxx

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

Why is the party at Marlago men only?

To emphasize the supposed power of the patriarchy? As Zhang, Whiterose has access to this world. As a trans woman, I'm sure it amuses her to have the boys' club dancing to her tune.

 

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Elliot and Darlene are both useful pawns.  Elliot is “the architect of the revolution” and as long as he is alive White Rose can use his ideas, genius and mental illness to forward her own agenda.  Darlene is a useful tool to control Elliot.

fsociety was necessary to get Whiterose the Congo annexation and to get whatever she wanted from Price. With the project moving to Africa, I don't see her having any more use for revolution or an architect of it.

[KaleyFirefly]

I'm so sad about Mobley and Trenton -- not only their horrific deaths but that the Dark Army pinned everything on them and made them look like mass-murdering terrorists. For all their naive ideas about F-society, it seemed like they were good people, in way over their heads. It's a credit to those actors that they had relatively small parts, but they made M & T so sympathetic that we really felt bad when they died. Honestly, though, I pretty much knew they were dead when Leon showed up last season.

I also give lots of credit to Martin Wallstrom's acting for making me feel sorry for Tyrell when he found out about his wife and son. Yes, I know he participated in Stage 2's mass murder of thousands of people, but somehow I still felt sorry for him. Santiago seemed to enjoy telling him in the most blunt way possible and even threatening Tyrell using his baby. 

So, who did Trenton send that email to, and what was in the email? To Darlene? To Elliot? I'm sure that will come up again.

Price learned the hard way not to fuck with Whiterose. And Angela's gone full-on mental, which Darlene was just now realizing in this episode. Maybe there is no sci-fi element to this show; maybe Whiterose tricked Angela by showing her something (I can't think of what) and played on her desire to see her mother again. But then what is Whiterose building in the Congo, that would be important enough to move an entire nuclear plant from New Jersey(?) to the Congo. It's got to be something big. What is Whiterose's ultimate plan, that's the central mystery that this show is teasing us on. Will we find out this season or next?

It does seem odd that the Dark Army would keep Tyrell, Elliot, Darlene and Angela still alive. It seems like, from Whiterose's perspective, they have all served their purposes, and are now loose ends who know too much, and should be eliminated. Well, maybe Angela can still serve because she is a fanatical believer, but the others would seem to be past their expiration date.

Also, why is Dom still alive? She is obviously very suspicious of Santiago and he knows it. He knows she is getting closer to the truth. The Dark Army could easily get rid of her & make it look like an accident. 

Why didn't Trenton take off Mobley's handcuffs so he could drive? I must have missed something there. 

I liked the scene with Krista and Mr. Robot. But therapist-patient privilege does not apply if the therapist believes or has proof that the patient is a danger to himself or others. In that case, the therapist is obliged to tell the police. They always get this wrong on TV shows.

Edited November 24, 2017 by KaleyFirefly

[shapeshifter]

53 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

 …Maybe there is no sci-fi element to this show; maybe Whiterose tricked Angela by showing her something (I can't think of what) and played on her desire to see her mother again. But then what is Whiterose building in the Congo, that would be important enough to move an entire nuclear plant from New Jersey(?) to the Congo. It's got to be something big. What is Whiterose's ultimate plan, that's the central mystery that this show is teasing us on. Will we find out this season or next?

My first guess is WR is planning a global nuclear holocaust—maybe with no survivors. Second guess is a global EMP that wipes out all electrical grids—maybe the only electrical power will be in the Congo run by a nuclear power plant. 

 

1 hour ago, KaleyFirefly said:

But therapist-patient privilege does not apply if the therapist believes or has proof that the patient is a danger to himself or others. In that case, the therapist is obliged to tell the police. They always get this wrong on TV shows

Yeah, the therapists on TV shows never seem to perceive that their patients are a danger to themselves or others, but this show tends to break tropes—like not having the fibbies break in in the nick of time to save Mobley and Trenton—so maybe Krista will ultimately be the hero and inform on Elliot before he does something like offing himself to protect WR's identity.

[hincandenza]

I found this episode rather frustrating. For starters, why even have the "comic" car escape, if you're going to kill the characters a few minutes later? Trenton being unable to simply steer straight enough while in first gear to get them the safe distance to then switch places with Mobley was absurdly implausible; she may not drive, but as Mobley pointed out she's not stupid (and probably has played enough video games that the basic operation of a running car shouldn't be overwhelming, even under stress).

Similarly, I find it impossible to fathom that, after what was basically another 9/11, the FBI et al didn't instantly scoop up Darlene, Angela, and Elliott among others, whether Santiago himself is compromised or not. The entire IC of this country will be on this case, and they won't report to Santiago. For that matter, with his wife dead and child being threatened, are we to read that Wellick has now completely lost his faith in his "God", Elliot? Why wouldn't he start chirping like a bird to every other agent in the building, with nothing to lose (and a chance to at least get his kid a safer life)? Outside of ZombAngela, the Alderson siblings now have zero reason not to come fully clean and work with Dom. They know they were played, and Elliott is furious about it (as well as Mr. Robot). I also think there's no chance Krista wouldn't be on the phone to the FBI that day, nor that her counsel (who somehow screamed "complicit" in his brief scene) would not recognize the extraordinary situation.

Along with that, why not kill Elliot? He's dangerous enough WR needed him and his plans to piggyback on through at least stage 2 (the multiple building attack was the pivot only once Elliot went rogue), and he's unpredictable since both his Elliot (and now alter) persona are horrified and opposed to WR. So why leave him alone? Why not kill Dom back in season 2, if she is probably the only real threat to exposing Santiago and by extension WR? And won't anyone at the FBI think it a little odd that Wellick is sitting in front of a camera, then the video blips and suddenly he's bawling his eyes out? Like, after two of the three biggest terrorist attacks ever being pulled off by fsociety in the last few months (5/9, ecorp explosions, and now "plans" for a 4th) they aren't going to have hundreds of agents poring over every second of every video and interview, and every thread of connection, 24/7?!?

 

I feel Esmail has really biffed this transition in scope from intimate portrayal of underground hackers to world-changing events, with TV's usual mishandling of common matters of law and society.

Like others, I'm still convinced there's some sci-fi element to WR's plan, as even an elaborate slapdown to EvilCorp and Price seemed more about a side element of displaying power, while the real effort was their own country to house whatever is being built at that plant (and a sh**ton of still unresolved thematic anvils about time travel). But honestly, if Esmail lets this season end with nothing but a fizzled revolution to show for it and no more clarity about what WR is up to, I'll be awfully close to going from 60-0 after the first two seasons and calling this show "Nu-Lost".

[Cardie]

I'm still nervous that Esmail will pull some sort of "it's a dream, hallucination, simulation, VR game" switch on us, so that the routine absurdities of the plotting will be excused by their unreality.

[green]

50 minutes ago, hincandenza said:

I found this episode rather frustrating. For starters, why even have the "comic" car escape, if you're going to kill the characters a few minutes later? Trenton being unable to simply steer straight enough while in first gear to get them the safe distance to then switch places with Mobley was absurdly implausible; she may not drive, but as Mobley pointed out she's not stupid (and probably has played enough video games that the basic operation of a running car shouldn't be overwhelming, even under stress).

Similarly, I find it impossible to fathom that, after what was basically another 9/11, the FBI et al didn't instantly scoop up Darlene, Angela, and Elliott among others, whether Santiago himself is compromised or not. The entire IC of this country will be on this case, and they won't report to Santiago. For that matter, with his wife dead and child being threatened, are we to read that Wellick has now completely lost his faith in his "God", Elliot? Why wouldn't he start chirping like a bird to every other agent in the building, with nothing to lose (and a chance to at least get his kid a safer life)? Outside of ZombAngela, the Alderson siblings now have zero reason not to come fully clean and work with Dom. They know they were played, and Elliott is furious about it (as well as Mr. Robot). I also think there's no chance Krista wouldn't be on the phone to the FBI that day, nor that her counsel (who somehow screamed "complicit" in his brief scene) would not recognize the extraordinary situation.

Along with that, why not kill Elliot? He's dangerous enough WR needed him and his plans to piggyback on through at least stage 2 (the multiple building attack was the pivot only once Elliot went rogue), and he's unpredictable since both his Elliot (and now alter) persona are horrified and opposed to WR. So why leave him alone? Why not kill Dom back in season 2, if she is probably the only real threat to exposing Santiago and by extension WR? And won't anyone at the FBI think it a little odd that Wellick is sitting in front of a camera, then the video blips and suddenly he's bawling his eyes out? Like, after two of the three biggest terrorist attacks ever being pulled off by fsociety in the last few months (5/9, ecorp explosions, and now "plans" for a 4th) they aren't going to have hundreds of agents poring over every second of every video and interview, and every thread of connection, 24/7?!?

 

I feel Esmail has really biffed this transition in scope from intimate portrayal of underground hackers to world-changing events, with TV's usual mishandling of common matters of law and society.

Like others, I'm still convinced there's some sci-fi element to WR's plan, as even an elaborate slapdown to EvilCorp and Price seemed more about a side element of displaying power, while the real effort was their own country to house whatever is being built at that plant (and a sh**ton of still unresolved thematic anvils about time travel). But honestly, if Esmail lets this season end with nothing but a fizzled revolution to show for it and no more clarity about what WR is up to, I'll be awfully close to going from 60-0 after the first two seasons and calling this show "Nu-Lost".

Well sometimes weird things happen on your way to your death and driving a real car isn't anything like driving one in a video game.  It also seemed a little like a homage to Breaking Bad where dark humor would crop up in the middle of all the shit going down.  Which, again, is a lot like real life.  And doing a homage is common among writers and shows too and I wouldn't have it any other way.  I am here to be entertained; not worry about whether someone who doesn't know how to drive should be able to drive because she may have played or NOT played video driving games.  And since I'm a good real life driver and a piss poor video game driver I, again, don't see any real tie in between the two.

Tyrell knows now that Santiago is working with Whiterose and that they control the fate of his baby.  He would never talk to others because he would doom his child.  And even if he did who would believe him?  Maybe eventually Dom but not for now because why would he or anyone else trust Dom.  And he is a wanted terrorist and Santiago is a high and respected member of the FBI.  He would have to  have a clear path to saving the baby before he would do anything but co-operate with Whiterose now.  So of course he will follow orders and finger Trenton and whatever Frederick's name used to be.  Which also says Whiterose still needs Elliot to remain safe for now.

Same with Elliot regards working with the FBI.  He can't/doesn't trust anyone right now.  Why would he trust the FBI?  If he did we all know that Santiago would take full charge of him anyway.  Darlene doesn't fully trust Dom yet either and Elliot doesn't fully trust Dom anymore.  Logical storytelling says Elliot and Dom will get together some day but that is probably the end game time and I sure don't want the end game coming any time soon.

Edited November 25, 2017 by green

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, green said:

Trenton being unable to simply steer straight enough while in first gear to get them the safe distance to then switch places with Mobley was absurdly implausible; she may not drive, but…

But Mobley was repeatedly yelling at her to gun it, so she did.

Even more absurdly tragic was (IIRC?) that Leon managed to overpower and lead to death Fredrick/Mobley/Moose and Tanya/Trenton/Squirrel with just a knife and some smooth patter, right?

(I never thought their real names were Mobley and Trenton anymore than I think that their names are Fredrick and Tanya, and "Moose and Squirrel" are more familiar and easy to remember and seem to fit their roles.)

[Ronin Jackson]

That was a tough one for me. The character deaths that get to me the most are sometimes the supporting characters. These deaths had a very similar feeling to (Breaking Bad Spoiler): 

Spoiler

Andrea getting killed on her front porch. That hit me harder than Hank only because I fully expected Hank to die. I was very deflated by this death, and even though I recognize the kind of inevitability of it, this was what put Walt beyond redemption for me and made me feel is sort-of redemption at the end was hollow. This was maybe my only criticism of the entire show.

 

This was similarly deflating, and very much by design. We were strung along to keep hoping they had a chance out. There was the comedy of pretty much the entire thread leading up to the arrival of the house, then the temporal fake out editing of the cop raid.. Even cutting away before we see the deaths. Esmail and co did a fine job punching us in the gut, and I hope there's a good reason for it.

I also though it was really cool that two members of the OG F Society crew were played by Indian American actors, even if they weren't playing Indian Americans. Though the show always seems to have an abundant rotation of South Asian American/Canadian actors, which is a neat and very unusual quirk about the show, But it still makes these particularly brutal deaths a little tougher to take.

[scrb]

On 11/23/2017 at 10:23 AM, Cardie said:

I double and triple your hope. He is a traitor and a scumbag, worries about his mom while smirking at the death of Tyrell's wife and using his baby as leverage to keep him silent.

The set-up of Trenton and Mobley as fall guys, all the better to blame the attacks on the usual Muslim, Iranian-backed terrorists, was so sad.  I had hoped against hope that they would survive. That the powerful make pawns of everyone else is Esmail's point but it gets depressing when all the characters one invests in are disposable pawns. Why Whiterose doesn't get rid of remaining loose ends Elliot, Darlene and Angela is a mystery but then we wouldn't have a show. Much as Angela has infuriated me, seeing her restore people to life by rewinding video reveals just how far gone she is.

I'm not sure where this goes now, because Whiterose has everything she used 5/9 to get. I agree that Dom and the Aldersons will get together to attempt to bring Whiterose down.

He'd be the greatest traitor in history if he was caught.

It's hard to believe that an American would collaborate with foreign terrorists to let them kill and destroy with impunity on US soil.

Oh wait, 24 and Homeland did that all the time right?  These plots wouldn't be carried out without the help of American accomplices.

So what is this guy going to do, bail with his elderly mother and some big amount of loot that WR gives him?

 

What WR and the Dark Army are doing would cause the US to mobilize and go to war.  It would make the reaction to 9/11, which resulted in trillions spent and thousands killed in Afghanistan and Iraq look like child's play.

Some say that WR has gone rogue and that the Chinese govt. doesn't know what he's doing.  Um, it sounds like WR is trying to do things in China's interests, like the Congo thing and E-coin.  Price knows WR blew up those buildings.  Why wouldn't he go to the FBI?  Sure he was complicit in many things WR was doing, but his career is fucked and he doesn't owe WR a damn thing.

In fact, for his safety, he better seek federal protection because the DA is operating with impunity -- all because of one rogue FBI agent?

Season 3 is turning into 24 and Homeland and I'm not talking about the good aspects of those shows either.  Now it's some conspiracy terrorist story, with Elliot literally racing against the clock to stop explosions.

[green]

10 hours ago, scrb said:

...

What WR and the Dark Army are doing would cause the US to mobilize and go to war.  It would make the reaction to 9/11, which resulted in trillions spent and thousands killed in Afghanistan and Iraq look like child's play.

Some say that WR has gone rogue and that the Chinese govt. doesn't know what he's doing.  Um, it sounds like WR is trying to do things in China's interests, like the Congo thing and E-coin.  Price knows WR blew up those buildings.  Why wouldn't he go to the FBI?  Sure he was complicit in many things WR was doing, but his career is fucked and he doesn't owe WR a damn thing.

In fact, for his safety, he better seek federal protection because the DA is operating with impunity -- all because of one rogue FBI agent?

Season 3 is turning into 24 and Homeland and I'm not talking about the good aspects of those shows either.  Now it's some conspiracy terrorist story, with Elliot literally racing against the clock to stop explosions.

The US could indeed mobilize for war since Whiterose planted an Iranian flag in the garage and had an Iranian-American fingered as being one of the two "masterminds" behind all this.  Whiterose doesn't do anything unless there is a reason behind it.  Of course the US is close to a failed state at this point with millions homeless by the economic collapse so it may not have the capacity economically to run off and have a war anytime it wants anymore.  But nothing like a war to distract folks from what Whiterose is actually doing.

China is not involved unless Whiterose intends to become it's premiere in her Zhang is it persona.  But why would she?  She wields more power in the shadows.  She engineered the Congo being annexed to China more for her benefit than China's because she needs that rare mineral there for her version of CERN.  Even she couldn't just annex it for The Dark Army or Whiterose Inc, heh.  

China is  just another piece on her chessboard.  The US may be a pawn and China may be better off for now but only to the degree it is a bishop or knight and can become expendable too.  But right now China is Whiterose's handy if unknowing go-fer and works as a nice shield for her as well.  Whiterose is many things but she is definitely no patriot and thinks nations states as silly as Price and the 1% crowd.

And no way could Price go to the FBI.  He is just as guilty as Whiterose and Whiterose has the evidence to hang him high whereas I doubt Price has anything he could use against Whiterose.  And either Santiago and/or the Dark Army would have him dead within hours if not minutes.  Either that or turn him into a handy fall guy.  "Federal protection" is a joke.  There is no protection from Whiterose.

I'm loving the action in Season 3 after the endless meandering around in Season 2.  More action, hacker or otherwise, and less meandering is all I ask.  And they are delivering this season just like in Season 1.  This is the Mr Robot I know and love.

Edited November 25, 2017 by green

[KaleyFirefly]

2 hours ago, green said:

And no way could Price go to the FBI.  He is just as guilty as Whiterose and Whiterose has the evidence to hang him high whereas I doubt Price has anything he could use against Whiterose.  And either Santiago and/or the Dark Army would have him dead within hours if not minutes.  Either that or turn him into a handy fall guy.  "Federal protection" is a joke.  There is no protection from Whiterose.

I'm loving the action in Season 3 after the endless meandering around in Season 2.  More action, hacker or otherwise, and less meandering is all I ask.  And they are delivering this season just like in Season 1.  This is the Mr Robot I know and love.

 

That's true. Price has no actual evidence against WR that he could go to the FBI with. He knows he's screwed and there's really not much he can do about it.

I am enjoying this season almost as much as season 1 for the reason you mention. I miss when Elliot and Mr. Robot would have conversations with each other, though. Maybe that will happen again now they might be working together.

[possibilities]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:53 PM, KaleyFirefly said:

Why didn't Trenton take off Mobley's handcuffs so he could drive? I must have missed something there. 

I was thinking the same thing.

[Neurochick]

Here's something I wonder:  Who is WR's boss?

[hincandenza]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Here's something I wonder:  Who is WR's boss?

That's kind of what I mean by Esmail hopefully not wasting season 3 and going full "Lost", but instead resolving some of these questions with a little more certainty.  We're led to believe that WR has no boss (leaving aside whatever hierarchy exists in his public role), and is running his own game with the Dark Army as his/her personal cybermilitary and quasi-religious cult.  On the other hand, people like Price were doing so as well, and the very first scene of this series was Elliot voicing over about the real power, hidden in the shadows- a theme echoed explicitly by Irving when he pointed to the cocktail party that never ends up on the rooftop in this episode.  Are those faceless people the real string pullers, for whom Price and WR ultimately work?  Given Price's monologue last season about being the most powerful person in any room, it seems that Price and WR are- or were- playing a game with the entire world.

So is WR a rogue element looking to take total control of Earth?  Is he working on behalf of, parallel to, or secretly antagonistic to China?  Are the Dark Army all deluded patsies as much as Angela and Wellick appear to be?  Is WR truly looking to build a time machine/MacGuffin, and reset the world?  To be the real revolutionary that Elliot/Mr. Robot only dreamt of?  I still don't honestly have any idea.  It will be a shame if we end this season with no more clarity about WR and their goals, and what's really going on at Washington Township.  Another oh-so-sly reference to Enchantment Under the Sea isn't going to cut it...

Edited November 25, 2017 by hincandenza

[Neurochick]

My problem is WR is VERY close to becoming a Bond villain.  I expect her to stand around screaming, "I WANT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD."  Yeah, right, chill out girlfriend.

[shapeshifter]

On November 23, 2017 at 10:53 PM, KaleyFirefly said:

Why didn't Trenton take off Mobley's handcuffs so he could drive? I must have missed something there

I think the audience and the characters were all supposed to be regretting that split second decision in hindsight.

 

35 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

My problem is WR is VERY close to becoming a Bond villain.  I expect her to stand around screaming, "I WANT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD."  Yeah, right, chill out girlfriend.

Hee! I don't think we're quite there yet. 

[Milaxx]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:53 PM, KaleyFirefly said:

It does seem odd that the Dark Army would keep Tyrell, Elliot, Darlene and Angela still alive. It seems like, from Whiterose's perspective, they have all served their purposes, and are now loose ends who know too much, and should be eliminated. Well, maybe Angela can still serve because she is a fanatical believer, but the others would seem to be past their expiration date.

Zhang/Whoterose very likely will kill them when they are no longer of any use to her. I believe she said as much a few eps back. That fact that they are still alive means she feels they may still be useful to them in the future.  This is pretty obviosu to me with someone like Angela who is very much in true believer mode.

On 11/24/2017 at 7:10 PM, hincandenza said:

Similarly, I find it impossible to fathom that, after what was basically another 9/11, the FBI et al didn't instantly scoop up Darlene, Angela, and Elliott among others, whether Santiago himself is compromised or not.

They didn't have any concrete evidence. They only grabbed Darlene & Cisco because of the slip up with the video tape. Even then all they had hr on were petty Fsociety crimes. It took showing her the board and seeing how much evidence they had accumulated on them for Darlene to agree to become a CI.

20 hours ago, possibilities said:

On 11/23/2017 at 11:53 PM, KaleyFirefly said:

Why didn't Trenton take off Mobley's handcuffs so he could drive? I must have missed something there. 

Because Mobley brushed her away and told her to drive. He was so scared he didn't want to take the time to let her release him and insisted she drive. If you've ever taught anyone how to drive, you'd know that is not a good idea. It seems simple in theory, but for an inexperienced drivers, even one with a genius IQ, the coordination required to steer, hit the gas and control the speed at which you are driving is a daunting task.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Milaxx

[Cardie]

I think there is part of Whiterose that loves toying with her prey, or even treating her pawns as indulged pets until it is absolutely necessary to eliminate them. With Price it's the sadism of watching him squirm; with Dom there seemed to be some fondness in the "show the dresses" scene. Whiterose has been very obvious in letting her live when the Dark Army ambushes those around her. WR also seems reluctant to kill those whose parents unknowingly gave their lives in Washington Township. But I am surprised such a ruthless person and meticulous planner would at this point leave alive anyone who knows of her existence who is not fully onboard with the agenda, by conviction or fear.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

WR also seems reluctant to kill those whose parents unknowingly gave their lives in Washington Township

Now that you mention it, this seems likely to be the Occam's Razor lynchpin on which the whole plot turns, and which could prevent the series from spiraling down a Lostian rabbit hole. If so, hopefully it won't ultimately disappoint in its simplicity. But if this is the case, I want to see at the very least some culpability in Mobley and Trenton's families for the Washington Township toxicity—otherwise their cruel fates don't seem justified, even from a storytelling standpoint.
ETA: 
—unless maybe Santiago took it upon himself to orchestrate Mobley and Trenton's sacrifices, without White Rose's knowledge/approval, which could lead to a fitting demise for Santiago once WR hears of it.
I don't recall: Did we at any time in this episode see WR calling the shots on Fredrick and Tanya?

Anyway, I'm now guessing Santiago's mother is another Washington Township victim, which made him a true believer.

Edited November 26, 2017 by shapeshifter

[hincandenza]

41 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

ETA: 
—unless maybe Santiago took it upon himself to orchestrate Mobley and Trenton's sacrifices, without White Rose's knowledge/approval, which could lead to a fitting demise for Santiago once WR hears of it.
I don't recall: Did we at any time in this episode see WR calling the shots on Fredrick and Tanya?

Anyway, I'm now guessing Santiago's mother is another Washington Township victim, which made him a true believer.

I think the best evidence Mobley and Trenton were a direct WR operation- besides the use of wossname as the sort-of hit man- was that the guy at the end telling them all about sacrifice is WR's right-hand man throughout at least this season. This is the one he's been telling to practice his English and to hold off on running phase 2 while schizo-Elliot goes waffling about at first. Santiago (who is presumably terrified of WR) wouldn't even know of, much less dare to try using, someone like *that*. Trenton and Mobley were her way of throwing off the scent to the FBI; Santiago would just be a pawn playing his part. Same as Wellick.

It continues to baffle, the motivations of some of the minions. What is Irving getting out of this? He's mentioned to Angela that he "believes" in WR's cryptic plan, although everything else including the lie about his family life and showing Elliot the cocktail party of the rich and not-famous screams "jaded cynical operative"... like he's Angela in 10-15 years, believing nothing but the money is good and his soul long gone.

[green]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:53 PM, KaleyFirefly said:

Why didn't Trenton take off Mobley's handcuffs so he could drive? I must have missed something there.

Trenton seemed to wiggle her way out her cuffs and it took her awhile to do it too.  She didn't have a key or code or whatever to unlock Mobley's.

On 11/25/2017 at 4:42 PM, hincandenza said:

That's kind of what I mean by Esmail hopefully not wasting season 3 and going full "Lost", but instead resolving some of these questions with a little more certainty.  We're led to believe that WR has no boss (leaving aside whatever hierarchy exists in his public role), and is running his own game with the Dark Army as his/her personal cybermilitary and quasi-religious cult.  On the other hand, people like Price were doing so as well, and the very first scene of this series was Elliot voicing over about the real power, hidden in the shadows- a theme echoed explicitly by Irving when he pointed to the cocktail party that never ends up on the rooftop in this episode.  Are those faceless people the real string pullers, for whom Price and WR ultimately work?  Given Price's monologue last season about being the most powerful person in any room, it seems that Price and WR are- or were- playing a game with the entire world.

So is WR a rogue element looking to take total control of Earth?  Is he working on behalf of, parallel to, or secretly antagonistic to China?  Are the Dark Army all deluded patsies as much as Angela and Wellick appear to be?  Is WR truly looking to build a time machine/MacGuffin, and reset the world?  To be the real revolutionary that Elliot/Mr. Robot only dreamt of?  I still don't honestly have any idea.  It will be a shame if we end this season with no more clarity about WR and their goals, and what's really going on at Washington Township.  Another oh-so-sly reference to Enchantment Under the Sea isn't going to cut it...

Whiterose is the ultimate poster child for the real power "hidden in the shadows."  If she isn't the 1% or the 1% I don't know who is.

21 hours ago, Cardie said:

I think there is part of Whiterose that loves toying with her prey, or even treating her pawns as indulged pets until it is absolutely necessary to eliminate them. With Price it's the sadism of watching him squirm; with Dom there seemed to be some fondness in the "show the dresses" scene. Whiterose has been very obvious in letting her live when the Dark Army ambushes those around her. WR also seems reluctant to kill those whose parents unknowingly gave their lives in Washington Township. But I am surprised such a ruthless person and meticulous planner would at this point leave alive anyone who knows of her existence who is not fully onboard with the agenda, by conviction or fear.

I weirdly think Elliot, Darlene and Angela have to be kept alive for some reason to do with the 2.0 Congo version of the Washington Township Project.  There is some carry over with Angela's mother and Elliot's father they are needed for.  Whether to "meet them again" in the other world (in Whiterose's pov anyway) for some purpose or what I don't know.  Angela may be a true believer and Elliot a needed genius but Whiterose is also keeping Darlene alive.  The Dark Army only shot Cisco when they well could have killed Darlene at that diner and they know Dom is pumping her for info yet she, the least needed or useful of the three seemingly, is also purposely being kept alive too.

20 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Now that you mention it, this seems likely to be the Occam's Razor lynchpin on which the whole plot turns, and which could prevent the series from spiraling down a Lostian rabbit hole. If so, hopefully it won't ultimately disappoint in its simplicity. But if this is the case, I want to see at the very least some culpability in Mobley and Trenton's families for the Washington Township toxicity—otherwise their cruel fates don't seem justified, even from a storytelling standpoint.
ETA: 
—unless maybe Santiago took it upon himself to orchestrate Mobley and Trenton's sacrifices, without White Rose's knowledge/approval, which could lead to a fitting demise for Santiago once WR hears of it.
I don't recall: Did we at any time in this episode see WR calling the shots on Fredrick and Tanya?

Anyway, I'm now guessing Santiago's mother is another Washington Township victim, which made him a true believer.

From start to finish.  From his handler, Leon, "chaperoning" them to the Dark Army and Whiterose's main sidekick setting up the staging area in the very same house Whiterose brainwashed Angela to the ultimate executing of them.

Edited November 27, 2017 by green

[Milaxx]

On 11/25/2017 at 9:07 PM, Cardie said:

I think there is part of Whiterose that loves toying with her prey, or even treating her pawns as indulged pets until it is absolutely necessary to eliminate them. With Price it's the sadism of watching him squirm; with Dom there seemed to be some fondness in the "show the dresses" scene. Whiterose has been very obvious in letting her live when the Dark Army ambushes those around her. WR also seems reluctant to kill those whose parents unknowingly gave their lives in Washington Township. But I am surprised such a ruthless person and meticulous planner would at this point leave alive anyone who knows of her existence who is not fully onboard with the agenda, by conviction or fear.

This is why I think Darlene, Elliot & Angela are still useful to her. If she no longer needed them, they would be gone like Trenton & Mobley or in a position where they couldn't harm her like Tyrell.

On 11/25/2017 at 10:05 PM, shapeshifter said:

.......
I don't recall: Did we at any time in this episode see WR calling the shots on Fredrick and Tanya?

Anyway, I'm now guessing Santiago's mother is another Washington Township victim, which made him a true believer.

No we don't specifically see WR make a call on them, but it's implied by Leon involvement. We've learned this season that Leon was dispatched to protect Elliott and report on him while he was in prison so it's safe to assume that he was hired by WR to bring Trenton & Mobley to the safe house.

 

Santiago doesn't strike me as a true believer like Angela, but it's not improbable. Maybe he's been told his mothers illness will be cured.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Milaxx

[hincandenza]

On 11/25/2017 at 10:16 PM, green said:

From start to finish.  From his handler, Leon, "chaperoning" them to the Dark Army and Whiterose's main sidekick setting up the staging area in the very same house Whiterose brainwashed Angela to the ultimate executing of them.

The one thing I'd quibble with is it being the same safe house; they presumably have access to many, and the safe house Trenton and Mobley were in had to be relatively near the Phoenix (?) area they were living in.  Angela is in NYC, and her trip lasted overnight but you can't drive from NYC to Phoenix overnight.  So if Esmail meant for it to be the same house, that's a goof-up.

[benteen]

Another excellent episode and they've been strong for the past three episodes.  A real downer of the episode and I was hoping that Mobly and Trenton would survive but just didn't see that happening.  Great job building the anticipation.  I continue to like the Krista character on this show and Price confronting Whiterose was pretty awesome.  Where does Elliot go from here?

I really hope Santiago gets his, along with Whiterose.  The former might, I don't know about the latter.

I did have some issues with the episode though.

-I call complete bullshit that the FBI or anyone was able to conceal Joanna's death or at least disappearance from the media.  One, it doesn't work like that.  Two, Joanna was just on a national television show and is the wife of the most wanted man in the country.  Media all over the world (including Joanna and Tyrell's home countries) would quickly know that she has disappeared.  Even the Dark Army couldn't put that off and Tyrell would have found out about it sooner if he was online.  It's as unrealistic as pulling off 71 bombings is.

I also tend to think Santiago would have had to have shown Tyrell proof in order for Tyrell to believe him (ie the autopsy photos)

-I did lose some sympathy for Trenton because she didn't have a driver's license.  Even without a driver's license, she somehow manages to crash a car in a wide open desert, finding the only mountain range around?  It felt like to me the writers were trying to make a "women can't drive" joke.

-Leon throwing shade on Frasier.  That's definitely an Esmail thing.  I saw an appearance by him once where he said that writers on the show are either Seinfeld or Friends fans.  He joked that one was a Frasier fan and they don't know what to think of that guy.  To each his own but sorry, Sam...Frasier was much, much better than Friends and along with Seinfeld, was the best sitcom of the 90s.

Edited November 27, 2017 by benteen

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

-I call complete bullshit that the FBI or anyone was able to conceal Joanna's death or at least disappearance from the media.  One, it doesn't work like that.  Two, Joanna was just on a national television show and is the wife of the most wanted man in the country.  Media all over the world (including Joanna and Tyrell's home countries) would quickly know that she has disappeared.  Even the Dark Army couldn't put that off and Tyrell would have found out about it sooner if he was online.  It's as unrealistic as pulling off 71 bombings is.

They didn't have to hide Joanna's death from the media. They only had to hide it from Tyrell which they could do by limiting what sites his computer sees. 

9 hours ago, hincandenza said:

The one thing I'd quibble with is it being the same safe house; they presumably have access to many, and the safe house Trenton and Mobley were in had to be relatively near the Phoenix (?) area they were living in.  Angela is in NYC, and her trip lasted overnight but you can't drive from NYC to Phoenix overnight.  So if Esmail meant for it to be the same house, that's a goof-up.

You are right, it's likely another safe house. WR likely has a network of safe houses at his disposal. He had one  Tyrell way out in the woods, He had the set up in the basement of the Red Wheelbarrow BBQ and he had a nicer place a 5 hour plane ride from NYC where he met the reporter guy. 

[Neurochick]

I would like it if Leon puts an end to WR.

[truthaboutluv]

Damn...just wow. That's about all I can coherently pull together right now. Dom clearly knows she's right about WhiteRose but let's face it, she's powerless. Not to mention she'll likely get herself killed if she keeps pushing this. I do hope that even if she can't get WhiteRose, she gets the proof on her boss and exposes his ass and he gets destroyed - physically preferably. Dude was already useless scum in my opinion but threatening a baby - no, he needs to go. I am curious why the Dark Army hasn't gotten rid of Elliot, Darlene and Tyrell yet. Maybe they will get rid of Tyrell now that he's helped set up the two F-Society members for the murder and they know Darlene is snitching to the FBI since Dom's boss works for them but in fairness, Darlene really doesn't know much about Dark Army's involvement. Elliot is the real question mark since I would think WhiteRose must see him as a nuisance at this point, since he's always trying to stop stuff even if he fails. Will be interesting to see where this is all going but right now it doesn't look very good at all. Right now it just looks like Elliot and a group of small time hackers started something that grew into something way beyond their power and control and it will likely cost them all their life. 

eta: I did enjoy seeing Leon again, even if he's just as evil as all the other Dark Army people. But damn if I didn't laugh at his ragging on the idea that viewers were supposed to buy someone who looked like Frasier could get so many women. Honestly, I can't say he was wrong. The Knight Rider love was equally awesome.

Also, I think this episode solidifies that Angela is completely batshit crazy. Whatever juju WhiteRose worked on her when she was kidnapped must have really fried her brain. Not to mention, as I've said before, I thought Angela was touch and go with sanity since Season 1. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I would like it if Leon puts an end to WR.

Especially if it's by accident. I can picture Leon looking at dead WR and just saying something like: Dude.

[hnygrl]

I've got a thought....What if....?

See, I was reading (well re-re-reading) one of my favorite books, and at the end, when they thought they'd finally taken down (aka killed) the kingpin? The big chief? The guy who pulled all the strings?
 

Turned out he was just another puppet and someone was pulling HIS strings. They hero and heroine were left to wonder just how far up does this thing GO?

What if White Rose/Jiang isn't the tippy top? What if White Rose is just doing what HIS/HER boss tells him/her to do?

Scary thought. Just how far up does this mess GO? We're assuming White Rose/Inspector Jiang is the top of the pyramid when he/she could just be another block in the middle...towards the top, but still in the middle.

I think this is going to be a "Stephen King" kinda show where the bad guys win. Had to quit reading him because evil ALWAYS WON-except in The Stand...

[Cardie]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 11:23 AM, benteen said:

I did lose some sympathy for Trenton because she didn't have a driver's license

Many folks who live in the Northeast rely on public transportation and don't drive. Trenton (the city) isn't like the sprawling suburbs. I do wonder how she managed in Phoenix though.

[shapeshifter]

In addition to .chk files being lost or unrecoverable files due to a system failure, I also find myself reading this episode's title, "Fredrick+Tanya.chk" as "Fredrick and Tanya Check Out," as in the use of "checking out" to mean dying, but it is also appropriate that it occurs in what resembles a hotel room.

[green]

Why is there no thread for the next episode yet?  It already aired.  Are we allowed to start threads here?

[Mr. R0b0t]

                                                  

Edited November 30, 2017 by Mr. R0b0t

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, green said:

Why is there no thread for the next episode yet?  It already aired.  Are we allowed to start threads here?

The thread didn't go up for this episode until the next day. I put that down to the holiday. Don't know why the mod is late this week as well.

ETA: I just realized that shapeshifter started this thread. Apparently the mod who usually starts Mr. Robot episode threads is MIA. I'm sure they have a good reason.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Cardie

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, green said:

Are we allowed to start threads here?

Yes. We can start threads anytime it's appropriate —or not, heh.
I just started one for the new episode. 
I feel honored and privileged to do it. Not sure what that says about my life.

35 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Apparently the mod who usually starts Mr. Robot episode threads is MIA. I'm sure they have a good reason.

Yes, you're probably right. 

[green]

11 hours ago, Cardie said:

The thread didn't go up for this episode until the next day. I put that down to the holiday. Don't know why the mod is late this week as well.

ETA: I just realized that shapeshifter started this thread. Apparently the mod who usually starts Mr. Robot episode threads is MIA. I'm sure they have a good reason.

I hope they weren't named Trenton or Mobley!

[Milaxx]

On 11/27/2017 at 2:38 PM, shapeshifter said:

Especially if it's by accident. I can picture Leon looking at dead WR and just saying something like: Dude.

I can't imagine Leon being that sloppy and he appears to be pretty loyal to WR.

On 11/28/2017 at 7:43 PM, Cardie said:

Many folks who live in the Northeast rely on public transportation and don't drive. Trenton (the city) isn't like the sprawling suburbs. I do wonder how she managed in Phoenix though.

My guess is she relied on cabs and rides with Mobley and the guy they were staying with. It wasn't like they planned to go to Phoenix. Also IIRC they were only there for a few months. Keep in Mind Trenton was only 17. She was a child genius.