S25.E12: Week 10: Season Finale Part 2

[Emily-D]

21 hours ago, howmanywords said:

If you look at the tour discussion on Instagram, Facebook, etc there are TONS of people saying they are going for Jordan. I believe both will be beneficial to the tour. Some people will enjoy seeing both. I don't get this notion though that Frankie has some huge dedicated fan base. Obviously he was more of a "name" than Jordan at the start of the season but why assume he had this huge fan base willing to pay a lot of money that had nothing to do with his DWTS exposure? 

That tour will make lots of money. They normally only book one celeb and only have a second if the original celeb has to take time off for whatever reason e.g Heather covering for Rashad last season. But Jordan and Frankie appeal to old and young DWTS fans. Best for business booking them both at the same time because they’ll both sell lots of tickets. I’d go if it was coming to my city. Frankie doesn’t have a fanbase, he’s gained tons of fans coming on the show. People have fallen in love with him. The hardworking loveable underdog.

[Bridget]

9 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I get why you said this but it won't work.  First, you have to look at height.  Sasha can only get the shorter females.  Witney gets the shorter males.  The taller guys like Drew and Calvin need the taller females.  Even getting Emma and Lindsay, Drew and Calvin were towering over them.

Maks can't get somebody like Victoria.  He has no patience.

Stars like Gary Busey shouldn't have pros like Witney and Lindsay.  They are too young.  He needed somebody like Anna who is a tough taskmaster.  

I feel bad that certain males like Tony and Keo get stuck with the difficult or older stars. 

However, I would also argue that Keo hasn't proven himself to be that great of a choreographer. 

At least, even when Lindsay had Alek or David that are not good dancers, she was still able to create choreography that suited them and was interesting. 

Tony also was a traditional choreographer.  

You're so spot on about so much, especially with regard to height, specifically Sasha Farber. I miss him so much as a pro, but he is really limited with potential partners.

Shallow Opinion Alert: When I watch him dance with Emma, I think "Am I the only one who notices she's a bit taller than Sasha? That's true love!"  (I'm 5'7" and couldn't imagine dating someone shorter than me, let alone marrying someone shorter.) I had to Google his seasons as a pro because other than Snooki and Terra Jolie, I could not remember his former partners, including Simone Biles (I didn't sleep last night; I blame insomnia for that one) I wonder if the season he danced with Terra, she was booked specifically because she is a Little Person (LP)? I don't mean to come off as ignorant or offend anyone, but the reality is that it's got to be hard to find a short female celeb that can be appropriately paired with Sasha.

Agree with you re: Maks and his patience, which makes it even more fascinating to me that his own brother was able to work with Victoria.

Age also plays a huge part in partnerships, whether it's aesthetically or logically; I couldn't agree more. Not to get too off topic, but it's especially important that DWTS partnerships are as "age appropriate" (for lack of a better description) as we are living in a climate where it appears that nearly every single day, more and more older men being accused of inappropriate behavior with younger females. While I doubt it would happen on DWTS, Julianne Hough has been really open about her own abuse when she was living/working in London. Lindsay & Witney are married adult women who wouldn't put up with that crap, but the optics of the pairings wouldn't be appealing to the audience if the younger female pros were dancing with partners who were much, much older than they are. As it's also been stated here, Witney and Lindsay are not the sharpest tools in the shed at times, so I doubt they'd have any common ground with a much older partner, which is essential in order to create even the most basic partnership, especially to communicate clearly.  David Ross & Lindsay being paired was most definitely an exception to the "noticeable age gap rule" as their ages were a non-issue to me. While I admit that I am a Cubs fan, but didn't vote for David, I never once thought "Wow, DRoss is SO MUCH OLDER than her." 

When I watch Keo dance, whether it's with his partner, the troupe or in another couple's performance, I'm left really underwhelmed. Keo's not nearly as talented as Artem or Tony are.  I can't even place Keo in a crowd anymore, whereas I will rewind performances specifically to watch Artem or Tony because they're freakin' amazing dancers, even when in a crowd. I know Keo is an eight time South African Latin Dance Champion, but it's been six years since he last held the title. I can't help but wonder if he's stepped away from Latin Dance and the transition hasn't been as great? I'm still waiting for the WOW! factor with him. As stated by many, the male celebs typically have an easier job than their female counterparts because they are meant to lead their partners, which should create opportunities for creating choreo to fit the needs of each partner and/or hide any struggles they're having with the dance.

Lindsay is smart in that she knows how to choreograph routines to suit her partners, no matter their "challenges" when it comes to dancing. I am willing to bet this wasn't the first season that she has spent evenings at home thinking about concepts/routines/choreography. She definitely takes her work home with her, and it shows!

I loved Nikki & Artem, but even I knew Nikki wasn't the best and there was a lot of "paint by numbers" choreo by Artem (I wish Artem would have challenged her more, but I will always forgive that handsome man!). I wish Keo would have tried doing a "paint by numbers" routine, like Artem did with Nikki sometimes, instead of creating routines that are clearly too difficult for his partners. We know Barbara Corcoran was a hot mess, and I don't blame Keo for her horrible performance, but It's almost as if he exposes their weaknesses because he doesn't think about ways to mask deficiencies. 

One of the many reasons I love watching Tony dance is because of his traditional choreography. He is mesmerizing. I was beyond thrilled when he finally won the Mirror Ball. I know Keo gets a similar demographic with his own partners, and I hate to sound like an ageist, but the only logical conclusion I can even guess about is perhaps producers have given Tony "older partners" because there's a slight chance the celeb might at least know how to waltz or foxtrot?

Other than that, I have no idea why Tony, such an obvious fan favorite, has not had a better record with capable partners on the show. Maybe he's gotten some "backlash by association" for being close with the C Brothers? 

While I don't know any of you personally, nor do I know anyone on the DWTS cast/crew, I cannot imagine anyone not loving Tony. He's had two partners withdraw, yet has done well with Stacey Keibler and Marissa Jaret Winkour. Talk about extremes! From what I've gleaned about Tony in the press and Google, I assume he's much more focused on his other professional endeavors, like his east coast dance studios, charity work and Superstars of Ballroom Dance Camp. I do wonder if he's opted to throw himself into his "own work" instead of rising the DWTS train as a result of being paired with such car wrecks for partners?!

Edited November 26, 2017 by Bridget
Spelling is important

[perfectstorm]

2 hours ago, rr2911 said:

I get this show is about the ratings and probably needs ringers, but there should be some tweaking to make the playing field tilted towards even. I don't know if these ideas would do the trick but these some suggestions I would like to see:

1. Have two winners. A male winner and a female winner! Their steps and routines are different so how can one judge who performed better?

2. Hold a "selection show". ABC could have a 1 hour show just to hold a selection party. The pros would select a celebrity out of a bowl (without looking of course). Whoever they select that will be their partner. Of course the male pros and the female pros would pick separately. No more Derek Hough partnering with the best celebrities anymore. (I don't think Derek's dancing on the show anymore), but you get the point.

3. Don't have such a diverse group of celebs! In other words, if the show wants a Jordan type celeb, then don't have someone like  Barbara Corcoran (Shark Tank) on the show. Obvious mismatch. If the show is going to have ringers then maybe have a show with all ringers or at least some experience.

4. Maybe the show should eliminate the "jazz" and "contemporary" categories. Someone like Jordan has a huge advantage in my opinion. The show might be better off sticking to ballroom dancing.

Okay, let the tomatoes start flying..lol! 

What about not having ringers period.  I don't think they help in ratings - as evident by the fact that Jordan won in one of the lowest rated seasons.  It was really the non-dancers that originally put the show on the map.  If Jordan had a pro like Witney or Emma who had already won, he would have been a goner.

[realdancemom]

47 minutes ago, Bridget said:

Age also plays a huge part in partnerships, whether it's aesthetically or logically; I couldn't agree more. Not to get too off topic, but it's especially important that DWTS partnerships are as "age appropriate" (for lack of a better description) as we are living in a climate where it appears that nearly every single day, more and more older men being accused of inappropriate behavior with younger females. While I doubt it would happen on DWTS, Julianne Hough has been really open about her own abuse when she was living/working in London. Lindsay & Witney are married adult women who wouldn't put up with that crap, but the optics of the pairings wouldn't be appealing to the audience if the younger female pros were dancing with partners who were much, much older than they are. As it's also been stated here, Witney and Lindsay are not the sharpest tools in the shed at times, so I doubt they'd have any common ground with a much older partner, which is essential in order to create even the most basic partnership, especially to communicate clearly.  David Ross & Lindsay being paired was most definitely an exception to the "noticeable age gap rule" as their ages were a non-issue to me. While I admit that I am a Cubs fan, but didn't vote for David, I never once thought "Wow, DRoss is SO MUCH OLDER than her." 

When I brought up Gary Busey, I wasn't even thinking of the age factor.  Although, I agree about that too.  I also didn't think it was strange for Lindsay and David to pair together.  However, it also makes sense to bring in Corky for Florence and Cloris.  When I brought up Gary, it was more in lines of people like him and Andy Dick.  You don't know what could happen with stars like them for different reasons.  That's why I wouldn't want them paired not only with Witney and Lindsay but also somebody like Kym who is older but is sweet.  They need the female pros like Anna, Karina, Cheryl, etc. that are known to be tough.  Sharna could also be strict when she needs to be like she demonstrated with Andy.  I still remember her line when Cody wore diaper pants.  Although, sometimes she also plays the female pro that does the showmances.  Peta used to also play that role but obviously can't anymore.

I think Tony gets the older and difficult females for the same reason why Maks wouldn't.  He has lots of patience.  

Edited November 25, 2017 by realdancemom

[boyznkatz]

David Ross was only 39. He looked older for some reason, so he looked like her dad. Plenty of 39 year olds look young though, so they would look fine with someone her age. 

I think Tommy Chong was cute with Peta, even though he was much older. I would have liked to see him win.

[Bridget]

10 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

David Ross was only 39. He looked older for some reason, so he looked like her dad. Plenty of 39 year olds look young though, so they would look fine with someone her age. 

I think Tommy Chong was cute with Peta, even though he was much older. I would have liked to see him win.

You're right about DRoss not being that much older. It was definitely the greying hair & beard (which I find attractive on a man) that made him look "not in his 30s." His team's nickname for him, Grandpa Rossy, along with the "Team Lady and the Gramp" shirts he'd wear in rehearsal also made me forget he was only 39. 

[realdancemom]

3 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

David Ross was only 39. He looked older for some reason, so he looked like her dad. Plenty of 39 year olds look young though, so they would look fine with someone her age. 

I think Tommy Chong was cute with Peta, even though he was much older. I would have liked to see him win.

I thought David Ross was older.  Not only did he have his Cubs' nickname and their DWTS team nickname, but Lindsay said that he was like her dad and David thought of her as a daughter.  He's only seven years older than Frankie.  Frankie still has a cute boy face though.

Edited November 25, 2017 by realdancemom

[Dobian]

13 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

The freestyle is not about "pairs" ballroom dancing and never has been. It's their chance to do something different. You could say Alfonso's tap dance solo in his freestyle to be self-indulgent as well. Or really anyone who's done a solo in their freestyle.

Actually, way back in season 1 the judges criticized Kelly Monaco for her freestyle in the final, breaking form and too much separation for the tango or whatever dance they were doing, I forget.  It was later that they started loosening it up and letting people do whatever the hell they want, which I don't think is necessarily a good thing.  It gives a total advantage to the professional dancers who can tap or whatever versus the legit amateurs, when again this isn't about tap dancing or Broadway or Vegas, but pairs ballroom dancing.

[realdancemom]

25 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Actually, way back in season 1 the judges criticized Kelly Monaco for her freestyle in the final, breaking form and too much separation for the tango or whatever dance they were doing, I forget.  It was later that they started loosening it up and letting people do whatever the hell they want, which I don't think is necessarily a good thing.  It gives a total advantage to the professional dancers who can tap or whatever versus the legit amateurs, when again this isn't about tap dancing or Broadway or Vegas, but pairs ballroom dancing.

I went on youtube to see Kelly's freestyle.  She must have done the tango earlier in the finale since that's not what she did for her freestyle.  She received all raves from the judges and not criticisms.  Looking at it, she would not have won now.  There were tons of mistakes and she looked lost in places.  She kept looking at Alec to get directions.

[HappyDancex2]

I've run the Finale in the background a few times and I'm surprised at how many times Jenna was featured in the show.  Even in the group performances the camera always seemed to find her.  Huh.  Seems like her relationship with Val has paid dividends.  It's also going to be awkward when they break up and he gets her booted to the faceless back end of the troupe again.

[Snarklepuss]

13 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I didn't think that Jordan had it in the bag as a ringer.  He didn't come in with a big fan base. 

I don't know if I'd agree with you when there was this article after only one episode back in September referring to his already being ahead in fan polls:

http://www.entertainmentdaily.com/news/jordan-fisher-already-ahead-in-fan-polls-for-dwts-win/

Plus, the size of his fan base is only relative to the size of his competition's fan base and I don't think his competition could measure up.

Perhaps Jordan didn't seem to have a big fan base going into DWTS, but that may not have been true based on the article above.  Plus, I think the show itself has increased it.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[Uke]

On 11/24/2017 at 9:56 PM, SnarkyTart said:

Just to add a little something into the mix.  I shared Thanksgiving dinner with an extended family of a little over twenty adults that wouldn't object to being labeled as largely conservative.  At one point, I brought the conversation around to DWTS.  About half of them, mostly the women, had seen at least one episode of this season's show.    Not one of them knew who Jordan Fisher was, other than roughly ten people (mostly women) who knew of him only from watching DWTS.  Of those ten, not one of them had ever heard of him before DWTS.  Here's where it got interesting, at least for me. Almost ALL of the twenty plus people at the dinner table had heard of the Broadway musical "Hamilton", though not one of them had seen it, nor could name any cast member.  Why they all knew of Hamilton was this: "That's the play that VP Pence walked out of because the cast all insulted him during the show!"  I would surmise from this that if Jordan were known by more of the DWTS audience as a Hamilton cast member, it might reasonably be said that he was an ANTI-ringer.  The demographic that kept Bristol Palin in so long is the same demographic that would never have voted for Jordan.

Interesting theory but I disagree.  The inverse of this would be if Lindsey had played up her Mormonism that the conservatives would have voted for her.  I don't think so.  For some, I think she didn't comply by having poofy pigtails and a quirky out-of-the-box nature.  No, Jordan (Lindsey) had this from the start, with full support from TPTB.

[Uke]

On 11/24/2017 at 11:27 PM, Bridget said:

Thank you for sharing! Wow. Can you imagine if "America" had made the connection your extended family did? I wonder what would have happened.I always find it interesting when conversations about things like DWTS or other pop culture issues arise in natural environments and I love to see how people react or hear about their opinions (i.e. "wow, so cool they know about XYZ" or "Interesting - never thought of it that way").

You also made me remember the TWO TIMES Bristol Palin was on our TV screens for way too long! Thanks a lot! (hahaha - kidding!!)

Part of me suspects that Mark created the  "dress like a gorilla" routine on purpose, just so he would be able to finally be eliminated. It was beyond painful to watch her on both seasons. If she was a decent dancer, or even made it look (to me) like she was into it or wanted to learn to dance, perhaps I could have been more mature and enjoyed the show while "agreeing to disagree with her and her family's belief system", but she wasn't, so I couldn't. :) All I can remember about her rehearsal footage is that she wore white socks to practice with Mark. I really wonder what made her do the show. Money? I don't recall her having any "Hollywood ambitions", but I could be wrong. I honestly wonder what motivated her to do it. I do have to admit that I think it was great for her to put herself out there like that - twice! Even if she ignored the media during her time on the show, clearly she had to know she was struggling. 

Even with the "Keo stalker" Barbara Corcoran, Chris Kattan and his limited mobility, Wynonna Judd literally walking instead of dancing and Master P and his craziness, BP still stands out to me as the one who I just COULD NOT WATCH, even on mute. 

If Mark writes a book in the future, I am hoping he goes into depth about his partnership with BP. I want to know what he really thought! 

Mark was very compassionate toward BP and I think with the monkey suit he was trying to get her out of her own head and try, if briefly, to pretend being another character.  And briefly I think it worked.  While she was in the suit she was more animated than any time before or after.  Unfortunately, while production liked the idea, they didn't bother customizing the suit (they just bought something premade from a costume shop) and when BP couldn't maintain eye contact or hear Mark coaching her through the dance and then she couldn't get the suit off, she panicked.  

The story floated at the time was (and I think Sarah confirmed it, but I'm not certain) was that the father was approached by casting.  He declined but he and/or Sarah served up BP as an alternative.  Casting then put an offer out to BP and, always wanting to please her mother, she accepted.

If Mark ever does write a book about his tenure on the show, I'd expect he would be kind to BP.

[realdancemom]

11 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I don't know if I'd agree with you when there was this article after only one episode back in September referring to his already being ahead in fan polls:

http://www.entertainmentdaily.com/news/jordan-fisher-already-ahead-in-fan-polls-for-dwts-win/

Plus, the size of his fan base is only relative to the size of his competition's fan base and I don't think his competition could measure up.

Perhaps Jordan didn't seem to have a big fan base going into DWTS, but that may not have been true based on the article above.  Plus, I think the show itself has increased it.

I said that Jordan didn't come in with a big fan base.  I think this is true since the older DWTS audience would not know a Disney kid unless they had kids or grand kids that watched it.  I suspect that the people in that article were like me.  I didn't know Jordan but he was the one that I was rooting for after the first show.  Yes, the size of the competition's fan base also matters.  That's why I said that if Lindsey's fan base was as big as Donny or Amber, she would have won.  Or if Drew was a better dance, he could have won.  As somebody else pointed out, you don't need to be the best dancer.  It's better to be a good dancer with a big fan base.

I think the show is great for publicity.  Now, there are more people that know the contestants.  Jordan now has a more mainstream fan base.  Mark and Lindsey were able to promote their tour.  Frankie can renew his TV career.  And now, I know the Property Brothers too.

Uke, it's interesting that you said that about Lindsey.  The Utah Desert News did publish an article on Lindsey.  It talked about her story and her faith.  It did mention that even though she didn't win, another Mormon did.  They mentioned that with all three final couples, a Mormon was going to win since Witney, Lindsey, and Lindsay were all LDS.  Of course, it's safe to publish that they are LDS in Utah and it wouldn't have negative consequences here.

[Snarklepuss]

3 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I think the show is great for publicity.  Now, there are more people that know the contestants.  Jordan now has a more mainstream fan base.  Mark and Lindsey were able to promote their tour.  Frankie can renew his TV career.  And now, I know the Property Brothers too.

That's true, I was also someone that didn't know Jordan other than seeing him in a clip of "Hamilton" on TV once and after seeing him on DWTS I would consider myself a fan of some sort (I guess I think I'm too old for that but you know what I mean).  This show is great for breathing life into has been stars' careers as well as being great for making the up and comings like Jordan more well known.

BTW, I always knew the Property Bros. but I watch HGTV once in a while.

[Toonces464]

19 hours ago, HappyDancex2 said:

I've run the Finale in the background a few times and I'm surprised at how many times Jenna was featured in the show.  Even in the group performances the camera always seemed to find her.  Huh.  Seems like her relationship with Val has paid dividends.  It's also going to be awkward when they break up and he gets her booted to the faceless back end of the troupe again.

The show is loving all these personal relationships among the pros.......they get a lot more mileage out of them than the partner showmances they used to push. But yeah, I agree, no one has benefited more than Jenna, though Peta is a close second.

[Uke]

1 hour ago, Toonces464 said:

The show is loving all these personal relationships among the pros.......they get a lot more mileage out of them than the partner showmances they used to push. But yeah, I agree, no one has benefited more than Jenna, though Peta is a close second.

Off topic but if you're interested, Jenna and Val, Hayley and Derek are vacationing together at the same Cabo resort.  They've been on each other's instagram stories and were at some sort of movie-at-the-beach event last night.  For supposed "warring factions", I guess they get along just fine.  Or maybe the "warring factions" are just the opposing fan groups. LOL!

[Andiethewestie]

On 2017-11-26 at 2:47 AM, Snarklepuss said:

I don't know if I'd agree with you when there was this article after only one episode back in September referring to his already being ahead in fan polls:

http://www.entertainmentdaily.com/news/jordan-fisher-already-ahead-in-fan-polls-for-dwts-win/

Plus, the size of his fan base is only relative to the size of his competition's fan base and I don't think his competition could measure up.

Perhaps Jordan didn't seem to have a big fan base going into DWTS, but that may not have been true based on the article above.  Plus, I think the show itself has increased it.

Since Jordan and Lindsay never hit bottom I figured they could at least outlast most of the Disney kids before them, and some thought he was getting some help to stay out of bottom with early higher scores, and yet he did not have the highest average  of all time, for women I still think it’s Kristie and for men it was Gilles Marini . But I really think the key was his consistency. He simply was more consistent than anyone. Certainly his profile on Disney and Hamilton helped. I also think Lindsay copped some real loyal Cubs fans, maybe even  Detroit Lions fans,  and Boys 11 men fans, David Ross was on the show and on line drumming up fan votes and Calvin gave them a shoutout So I legit under estimated his fan base. And definitely the more he danced the more he grew his fan base, which is really cool to see.  I think Lindsey Stirling has a big on line following and in Europe and Asia, but that did not transition to votes for this show. As far as Frankie is concerned, I think he was over generously scored most of the season to ward off the Property Bro. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[Toonces464]

40 minutes ago, Uke said:

Off topic but if you're interested, Jenna and Val, Hayley and Derek are vacationing together at the same Cabo resort.  They've been on each other's instagram stories and were at some sort of movie-at-the-beach event last night.  For supposed "warring factions", I guess they get along just fine.  Or maybe the "warring factions" are just the opposing fan groups. LOL!

I saw those! I don't think the warring factions are as at war as some would like to think. I remember several times that Derek showed up with the fam out in NYC.

[truthaboutluv]

22 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

I saw those! I don't think the warring factions are as at war as some would like to think. I remember several times that Derek showed up with the fam out in NYC.

Derek and Val have always been friendly enough, though they've certainly had their competitive moments. I think they've always gotten along well enough but as two competitive people there has definitely been a rivalry at times. That said, it's certainly not fandom delusion that Derek and Maks do not like each other. And why would they, when Maks has repeatedly made it known publicly that he believed the show was biased in favor of Derek.

And the US Weekly cover story that featured the two and Cheryl only a year or two ago, proved that there is still no love lost between those two. So again, I don't think the fans have entirely made up The Fam v. Hough war. I think the fans have taken it to ridiculous levels, taking sides and acting like to love one meant hating the other. And it is especially ridiculous since they don't know any of these people personally. 

I did see posts about the couples Cabo vacation on my Instagram search feed, since one of my followers follows damn near every Pro from the show. The whole thing amused me because I just thought, "oh look, it's the two young women and their much older boyfriends who've treated them like shit publicly but being with them has gotten them a lot of publicity on the show so they continue to stick around." The whole thing is especially amusing since the Instagram drama that happened with Derek and Hayley that they quickly glossed over and their fans like to pretend never happened, involved Val. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Derek and Val have always been friendly enough, though they've certainly had their competitive moments. I think they've always gotten along well enough but as two competitive people there has definitely been a rivalry at times. That said, it's certainly not fandom delusion that Derek and Maks do not like each other. And why would they, when Maks has repeatedly made it known publicly that he believed the show was biased in favor of Derek.

And the US Weekly cover story that featured the two and Cheryl only a year or two ago, proved that there is still no love lost between those two. So again, I don't think the fans have entirely made up The Fam v. Hough war. I think the fans have taken it to ridiculous levels, taking sides and acting like to love one meant hating the other. And it is especially ridiculous since they don't know any of these people personally. 

I did see posts about the couples Cabo vacation on my Instagram search feed, since one of my followers follows damn near every Pro from the show. The whole thing amused me because I just thought, "oh look, it's the two young women and their much older boyfriends who've treated them like shit publicly but being with them has gotten them a lot of publicity on the show so they continue to stick around." The whole thing is especially amusing since the Instagram drama that happened with Derek and Hayley that they quickly glossed over and their fans like to pretend never happened, involved Val. 

I've always felt Val got along just fine with both Derek and Mark (he seems especially close to Mark) but because Maks has issues with both of them, it's translated over to Val among the fans. 

We have the same thought on the two young troupe ladies LOL. The troupe aren't really known to anyone except the young fans on Twitter who tweet them constantly because they get tweets back from them, but hooking up with Val and Derek has definitely helped both Jenna and Hayley with name recognition and prominence on the show. I feel the same about Maks and Peta --- she may not be in the troupe, but she wasn't a name anyone knew until she hooked up with Maks. During their breakup, you never saw her name mentioned anywhere until she went back to Maks. I feel a bit bad for all of them because once the show is over and the guys aren't as noteworthy, how long will any of them stick around? Emma and Sasha doesn't seem to fall into that category, mainly because neither of them is that well known, but they are known now as the couple that got engaged live on DWTS.

[Andiethewestie]

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎25 at 1:12 PM, realdancemom said:

I didn't think that Jordan had it in the bag as a ringer.  He didn't come in with a big fan base..

Anyway, all this rambling is to say that there are many reasons why people win.  It's not always the best technical dancer.

No it is not the case most of the  time I am happy it happened on the 25th season