S07.E06: Wake Up Call

[tennisgurl]

I still have no idea what the point of this "resistance" is, and what its actual purpose is. Are they resisting Tremain? Or the Prince? Is it just a camping trip gone horribly wrong? They cant be that badass if random ruffians just come up to steal their crap sometimes. How many people can Tremain have in her pocket? Why doesn't someone just run up to her castle and punch her in the face?

Also, I keep laughing at how crap this curse has turned out to be. I guess it makes sense, as Ivy doesn't seem as powerful as Regina, but it doesn't exactly make the stakes huge if the curse, by episode six, is affecting a grand total of about five people. Really, its a problem with the whole show. I have no idea what the stakes are in either world. We have a half asses resistance against a ruler that hasn't been well explained, and a boring neighborhood with a half assed curse affected a handful of randoms. Not exactly epic. 

[jhlipton]

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Weavers was basically being Gold with a different accent there.

Just when I hadn't thought I could be more bored, they had to prove me wrong.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

45 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, I keep laughing at how crap this curse has turned out to be. I guess it makes sense, as Ivy doesn't seem as powerful as Regina, but it doesn't exactly make the stakes huge if the curse, by episode six, is affecting a grand total of about five people. Really, its a problem with the whole show. I have no idea what the stakes are in either world. We have a half asses resistance against a ruler that hasn't been well explained, and a boring neighborhood with a half assed curse affected a handful of randoms. Not exactly epic. 

At least in Storybrooke we knew the Curse had affected dozens of people besides the main characters. The showrunners said it would be fun/challenging/something like that to try and figure out who's a fairytale character and who's a normal Seattle person, but so far we haven't had any element of mystery like that.

[Rumsy4]

I think literally only 10 people were cursed and brought to HH. 

[Camera One]

57 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

The showrunners said it would be fun/challenging/something like that to try and figure out who's a fairytale character and who's a normal Seattle person, but so far we haven't had any element of mystery like that.

It is definitely a fun game we can all play.  When you're bored with the scene, just look at the extras in the background and try to guess who's a fairytale character and who's not!  Filling in the blanks... fun!  

Edited November 14, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

35 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think literally only 10 people were cursed and brought to HH. 

And it all happened 15 minutes before Lucy arrived at Henry's door.

Quote

It is definitely a fun game we can all play.  When you're bored with the scene, just look at the extras in the background and try to guess who's a fairytale character and who's not!

"OMG that random customer at Mr. Cluck's was at the ball where Jacinda tried to murder the prince!"

"The janitor at Bellfrey Towers was a peasant in Tiana's village!"

Remember in S1 when the witch from 1x02 turned up as one of Mayor Mills' press groupies in 1x08? Yeah. That subtlety is gone.

Edited November 14, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Mabinogia]

Wait, we're supposed to care which random extras are fairy tale characters and which aren't? What was fun about Storybrooke was that they were ALL fairytale characters and we could figure out who was who. We know all the leads here are fairytale people, though not our real fairytales but some kind of alternate universe fairytales so already, don't much care. They're like knockoff fairytale characters. This isn't "real" Cinderella but some low rent version. Real Cinderella had her baby back in Storybrooke and is living happily ever after. I could buy this being real Tiana, since we never had a Tiana on the show before, but I don't care for the idea that they are using characters we've already met and calling them "alternative universe" versions. It's stupid. If you couldn't get the original actress back, go pick another princess to hook Henry up with, hell, hook him up with Tiana. She's more interesting in the short time we've had with her than Cinder in all her whininess. (I'm sorry, but that actresses whiny ass voice drives me up a wall)

[Mitch]

On 11/11/2017 at 6:51 PM, legaleagle53 said:

Probably because like Drizella, Emma, and Zelena, she was born with magic.  Those who have innate magic retain it regardless of what realm they're in.

Zelena could not work magic in the LWOM...Emma and the Dragon were the only ones so far..however..this is A & E who use magic as a convenient plot helper...

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

When you're bored with the scene, just look at the extras in the background and try to guess who's a fairytale character and who's not!  Filling in the blanks... fun!  

Until you're disappointed when it turns out to not be anything. I was so sure the clumsy co-worker at Mr. Cluck's was going to turn out to be someone important to Cinderella, and that's why she put her job on the line standing up for him, but apparently she was just being saucy and fierce, or something.

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I still have no idea what the point of this "resistance" is, and what its actual purpose is. Are they resisting Tremain? Or the Prince?

I believe they said they were resisting the king, who was raising taxes, and Lady Tremaine, who was in league with him. But if she's already buds with the king, why the worry about going to the ball to marry her daughter to the prince? I'm not sure what recon would be needed when they know where the prince and Lady T are and their opponents don't seem to be engaging them in any kind of war. There's definitely no reason for Hook to be patrolling the coast, unless that was Hook's excuse for getting away from these idiots. "Hmm, it's a good day for a sail, I, um, yeah, I should probably go patrol the coast. No, I don't need any help. You lot go do some recon." So far, the resistance is looking like a bunch of people camping and talking about what they're going to do someday. They're not engaging in guerilla tactics, they're not directly confronting their enemies.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I tried to watch this Sunday night and got to where Lucy called Rongina the Savior and that she was going to break the curse...and What?  WTF?  I had to stop.  I thought Henry was going to be 'the savior' of this curse, which was sort of interesting, but I should have known better.  Of course Regina is The Savior.  A&E have been waiting 7 seasons to do that, haven't they? 

So I watched last night, rolled my eyes hard through the aforementioned scene, and soldiered on. 

Both her cursed persona's wardrobe and her New Enchanted Forest Resistance garb is really bothering me.  Neither one have the class that Regina and the Evil Queen always had. 

Jamurderella was written marginally better this episode, but not by much.  She's dissing Henry because he had drinks with Ivy (after Ivy 'helped' them?)  Wow.  I didn't realize her wedding ring was already on his finger, under the curse.  Also: the engine isn't halfway down the side of the truck, so I don't know what they were working on there except maybe the suspension.  No way Rongina had all the tools Jamurderella will ever need to fix a truck in that one tool box.  Good luck with that.  She gets points for trying though.  To fix the truck, that is.  There is no fixing the no chemistry issue between her and Henry.  It's way too late to be starting to try to show us this 'epic' romance six episodes in. 

Oh, god the showrunners with their self insert.  No, Henry mix tapes don't always work.  I'm pretty sure they haven't in 40 something years and even back then they rarely worked.  Maybe for people in an established relationship (I'm think mixed cd's from long ago) but not for trying to start a relationship.  Only the truly pathetic did that.  But then, look who I'm talking about. 

The hospital would not have allowed Weaver to walk out.  It's just against policy.  Nurses are tough.  They'd have made him sit in that wheelchair. 

I'll be honest and say I missed most of the conversation between Whook and Alice because it was pretty boring.  Most of the episode was pretty boring: Drivy and the prisoner witch are semi-interesting, and that's about it.  I'm off to read the comments now so I can figure out what this episode was really about. 

On a good note: the new writers do seem pretty good at throwing in lines referencing the other Disney movies and fairy tales: mention of Snow White's closet and the alley with the stray dogs outside of Bueno Notte restaurant were actually nice. 

[tennisgurl]

24 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

n a good note: the new writers do seem pretty good at throwing in lines referencing the other Disney movies and fairy tales: mention of Snow White's closet and the alley with the stray dogs outside of Bueno Notte restaurant were actually nice. 

Yeah, I will give them that. They do seem to be throwing in a few more Disney references lately, like last week when Rogers was dragging in some bad guy and said he had been drunk and disorderly at Pleasure Island Burlesque House or something, and he said that the place turned everyone into Jackasses. That was funny. 

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

There's definitely no reason for Hook to be patrolling the coast, unless that was Hook's excuse for getting away from these idiots. "Hmm, it's a good day for a sail, I, um, yeah, I should probably go patrol the coast. No, I don't need any help. You lot go do some recon."

*snerk* Who can blame him? lol

[Wayward Son]

On 11/11/2017 at 10:48 PM, Camera One said:

So how did Mophead Witch manage to do magic in The Land Without Magic?  

Magical items have always worked in the land without magic, so I’m going to assume that the flowers retrieved from Lady Tremaine had magical properties and they were the source of the magic rather than Mophead Witch. It would explain why they had to use those flowers rather than random flowers from a florist and why MW was all “it’s been too long since I was kept from this”. At least that’s my theory anyway :)

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

Magical items have always worked in the land without magic, so I’m going to assume that the flowers retrieved from Lady Tremaine had magical properties and they were the source of the magic rather than Mophead Witch.

Yeah, I figure it's like Regina accessing the magically poisoned apple, using the hearts she'd already ripped out, and using the last bit of magic from Daniel's ring.

2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

On a good note: the new writers do seem pretty good at throwing in lines referencing the other Disney movies and fairy tales: mention of Snow White's closet and the alley with the stray dogs outside of Bueno Notte restaurant were actually nice.

But it would have been nice if we'd seen the restaurant. That would have added some color to the neighborhood and showed that it was some kind of fairy tale enclave. I can see where that Pleasure Island joint would be a budget buster, but they could have stuck a sign and an awning or maybe a couple of sidewalk tables with umbrellas on their generic streetscape to show the restaurant. We didn't even need to see the stray dogs, since Roni and Henry wouldn't have been in the alley.

[CinAZ]

Well, it is taking me longer and longer to watch the episodes, that can’t be a good thing.

the good: I did enjoy most of the Ivy/Regina stuff. Ivy is an interesting character.  Not sure what game the mop head witch is playing. I am sure we will find out. I wish Hook had more to do. When he is on, it at least reminds me of OUAT. Alice is ok when she isn’t being all crazy cryptic.

the bad: as usual, Jacinda. Is she a mechanic? Why isn’t she working at, I dunno, Jiffy Lube instead of Mr Clucks?  Regina had tools, cool. But. Engine tools and maintenance tools usually aren’t the same. Maybe I am being picky. At least there wasn’t a lot of Jacinda. That’s good. Still not liking the kid. The less she is around, the better.

the ugly: so, now that Regina has her memory back, will she dress like herself? She looks like a leftover groupie from a 90’s cover band.

[Rumsy4]

1 minute ago, CinAZ said:

Engine tools and maintenance tools usually aren’t the same.

But they're tooooools!! Same difference! Who cares about pesky facts, amirite?!

[kpw801]

The mix tape.  About 20 years ago, I was dating a guy who was a little younger than me.   I was a recent divorcee with kids to support and sporadic child support.  Mr. Romantic called me and got me all excited about a "surprise" he had for me.  He showed up with a cheap little red fabric rose in plastic, he must have gotten from a gas station convenience store and a mix tape.  That was it.  So long Romeo.  Adios.  Mix tapes are lame.

Edited November 14, 2017 by kpw801

[KingOfHearts]

This episode did nothing for Regina. It basically confirmed she's been up to nothing for the past three years. It's disappointing that this was her big centric. While Hook is an expectant father, Rumple lived a lifetime and lost Belle, and Henry's on his asinine Jacinda quest, Regina is just... there. Her character used to drive a lot of the story in a good way. Now she's just an accessory. It's sad. Even a random love interest would benefit her at this point, and that would just be a Robin retread.

Edited November 14, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[jhlipton]

9 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

The hospital would not have allowed Weaver to walk out.  It's just against policy.  Nurses are tough.  They'd have made him sit in that wheelchair.

The "tough guy (or girl) rips out the IV's and storms out of the hospital" is a done-to-death trope so I give them a pass for that.  At least he was cleared to leave, unlike countless other TV patients.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On November 11, 2017 at 0:27 PM, Camera One said:

The Writers also presented this as an All-or-Nothing.  Regina could have offered to help Drizella disarm Lady Tremaine, disable her permanently, put her in prison and Drizella can spend her entire life taunting her mother since she seems to have no other purpose or desires.  And don't tell me that the All Powerful Regina can't stop or capture a Magical Novice like Drizella.  She couldn't have taught her *everything* in one day. There are plot holes all over the place and relies on the characters' stupidity - one of the biggest problems with this show all along and showcased especially in this episode.

Not to mention the inconsistency with when everyone thought Rumple was still a Savior and were like "go kill the Black Fairy", and he brought back what was supposedly her heart, and it was treated as a good thing. And then he actually killed her, out of revenge for Belle, and apparently that was the right thing to do. So killing and revenge are wrong. Except when they aren't.

10 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I tried to watch this Sunday night and got to where Lucy called Rongina the Savior and that she was going to break the curse...and What?  WTF?  I had to stop.  I thought Henry was going to be 'the savior' of this curse, which was sort of interesting, but I should have known better.  Of course Regina is The Savior.  A&E have been waiting 7 seasons to do that, haven't they? 

They already did it in "Operation Mongoose" and "The Price", too.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Catching up on comments.  I had to go to YouTube to watch some scenes I realized I must have missed from reading the comments.  And then I had the thought that that is a  much better way to watch this season.  I used to wonder why people would do that (only watch certain scenes on YouTube.)  Now I know.   :/

On 11/10/2017 at 9:46 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Drizella is seriously awesome. I don't really care what this "bad thing" that will happen if the curse is broken. Obviously, Regina contributed to it somehow. If it's not killing off Jacinda, I don't care.

Yawn on Hook. As a non-Hook fan, I couldn't care less about his journey to find missing daughter. Alice, on the other hand, is pretty great still.

I'm pretty sure it's that Henry will die.  I'll bet Drivy skewered him or something right before the curse hit, so once the curse is broken, Henry dies.  You know, like they already did with Hook and being the Dark One.  Even still, I'm pretty okay with Henry dying if it means Murderella and her annoying kid go away too.

I am a Hook fan and I also have to saw Yawn on Whook.  The story is pretty boring.  As a character, he's pretty boring. 

On 11/10/2017 at 10:10 PM, XrystalPond said:

That whole speech from Regina to Henry about him being her life and how she couldn't let him go made her seem codependent and bitter. 

Just that speech?  I thought this whole season, with Regina following her grown up son on his quest to find the girl because there was nothing for her in Storybrooke without him there made her seem codependent.  She's always been bitter.

On 11/12/2017 at 9:32 PM, tennisgurl said:

I was busy all weekend so I finally got to see this, and...my God am I not invested in this anymore. I almost pine for the days when I got pissed off at this show and its constant white washing of Regina's past deeds and its nonsensical plot developments. Now, I have moved onto pure and utter boredom, punctuated with occasional moments of interest. 

I just cant deal with this whole retcon of Regina being the Best and Most Awesome mom ever and ever (Emma who?) and how Henry and her had this amazing perfect relationship. Henry found Emma not only because he knew about the curse, but because Regina was emotionally aabusive and gas lit him for his entire life! This is just madness! I have come to terms with Regina as a hero despite hardly doing anything to deserve that title, but I just cant stand this constant ignoring of her past actions! A&E are so clearly bitter at JMO for leaving, and it seriously shows. 

I am glad that its looking like Drizella is the real Big Bad of the series, as she is a much more compelling villain than Tremaine, and her plan actually makes more sense than Regina's ever did. At least Drizella is directing her rage at the right person. Granted, shes seemed to have dragged a bunch of other people into this too, so she isn't any better than Regina, but at least she makes more sense. Also, smooth move teaching the clearly bitter magic girl who wants to kill ways to harness her powers Regina. Even when shes a good guy she screws everyone over. Also, what the fuck was that outfit she was wearing in the past? Was she planning on starting up a leather bar for the resistance?

Henry has more chemistry with Regina than his supposed One True Love and its seriously creeping me out. Murderella was alright this week, as she wasn't being outwardly awful and murderous, but she didn't leave a particularly positive impression either. Why is Henry even bothering with this boring, angry chick with a daughter who presumably* brings up sad memories by saying shes her father all the time? I think that, increasingly, it was a mistake to make this new revival such a copy of season 1. Now that we already saw season one, we can constantly compare it to this season...and see how it falls so short. Charming and Snow were epic. We saw their love in the flashbacks, and their pain at being separated in the present. Here, we see some awkward flirting in the past (between thefts and murder attempts) and more awkward flirting in the present. Epic? 

I am still kind of interested in Tilly and Rogers, but thats really about it at this point. 

Seriously - did you read my mind when you wrote this post?  These were exactly my thoughts after watching. 

On 11/13/2017 at 9:50 PM, tennisgurl said:

I still have no idea what the point of this "resistance" is, and what its actual purpose is. Are they resisting Tremain? Or the Prince?

Good news!  Since Drucilla killed the Prince, there's no need for the resistance anymore!  All your questions are therefore pointless.  ;) 

21 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

So far, the resistance is looking like a bunch of people camping and talking about what they're going to do someday. They're not engaging in guerilla tactics, they're not directly confronting their enemies.

So, in other words, they are an extremist, anti-government militia group.  Hm.  Kind of explains Regina's, Whook's, and Gold's involvement. 

18 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

But it would have been nice if we'd seen the restaurant. That would have added some color to the neighborhood and showed that it was some kind of fairy tale enclave. I can see where that Pleasure Island joint would be a budget buster, but they could have stuck a sign and an awning or maybe a couple of sidewalk tables with umbrellas on their generic streetscape to show the restaurant. We didn't even need to see the stray dogs, since Roni and Henry wouldn't have been in the alley.

I figured it was a budget thing as well.  Although, I think the dogs may have been cheaper than even setting the stage with a sign and awning and stuff, and more charming (see what I did there? ;) )  It wouldn't have been too hard to borrow a couple dogs from the local shelter and have them chowing on some food in the background when Henry and Rongina walked out. 

15 hours ago, kpw801 said:

The mix tape.  About 20 years ago, I was dating a guy who was a little younger than me.   I was a recent divorcee with kids to support and sporadic child support.  Mr. Romantic called me and got me all excited about a "surprise" he had for me.  He showed up with a cheap little red fabric rose in plastic, he must have gotten from a gas station convenience store and a mix tape.  That was it.  So long Romeo.  Adios.  Mix tapes are lame.

Lol!  Sounds just like my ex!  His name wasn't Dick, was it?

12 hours ago, jhlipton said:

The "tough guy (or girl) rips out the IV's and storms out of the hospital" is a done-to-death trope so I give them a pass for that.  At least he was cleared to leave, unlike countless other TV patients.

Yes, it's been done to death, but this is supposed to be 'the real world of Seattle.'  It would be nice if the show actually went against the tired old tropes.  Oh, wait - I forgot which show I was talking about for a moment!  Nevermind! 
 

[Mitch]

19 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

This episode did nothing for Regina. It basically confirmed she's been up to nothing for the past three years. It's disappointing that this was her big centric. While Hook is an expectant father, Rumple lived a lifetime and lost Belle, and Henry's on his asinine Jacinda quest, Regina is just... there. Her character used to drive a lot of the story in a good way. Now she's just an accessory. It's sad. Even a random love interest would benefit her at this point, and that would just be a Robin retread.

Yea, its weird..I can see that Regina can't live like a normal person, and she always needs a project...like killing Snow or casting the curse or making everyone miserable or protecting the curse or doing battle with every big bad cackling their way down Main Street but Henry should have had a different reaction to that..like "Uh, Mom, can I do something myself...and its weird, why don't you get a hobby?"  Regina has a big ass beautiful house, and a job back in SB..and there has to be some guys around to have fun,,whatever you think about her, she's hot...isn't poor pouty perty as can be Jefferson around? They had chemistry and he might not want to have a go with her with all she has done, but Storybrookers seem to have..(along with a short fuse and propensity to start a mob scenes, ) very short memories...(maybe its all the Curses...) Regina, driving home from work, "Hey Jefferson, sorry for like stranding you in Wonderland, and cursing you for 28 years to be miserable and watch your kid live without you...but wanna get a drink sometime?" Tho Bat Shit Crazy Ex Girlfriend Zelena might have made it to the sack with him and you know she would still be calling his house and hanging up...Why does a show about the everyday going ons in Storybrooke, without any villains still sound like more fun then what is happening now???

And has anyone is SB thought about moving someplace else in the LWOM..why does everyone want to move to another realm? A bored Regina might want to go to visit Spain or France or something...but then, I never understood why dipshit Henry thought he had to be a "hero" instead of going to college and getting away from his insane freak show of a family.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Mitch

[Shanna Marie]

7 minutes ago, Mitch said:

And has anyone is SB thought about moving someplace else in the LWOM..why does everyone want to move to another realm? A bored Regina might want to go to visit Spain or France or something...but then, I never understood why dipshit Henry thought he had to be a "hero" instead of going to college and getting away from his insane freak show of a family.

Yeah, just like going to Spain, France, Australia, or whatever would have solved all of Rumple and Belle's problems -- letting her travel and him age normally in the LWOM -- Regina could have dealt with her empty nest syndrome by traveling. She could have hooked up with hot guys the world over who had no clue she'd ever been the Evil Queen. She could have made a fresh start in New York. It's odd and creepy that the writers seem to think they're writing her as a wonderful mother, and based on that interview with Lana, she thinks this is showcasing her maternal side, when it's not healthy or normal for a parent of an adult child to be so lost without that child in her life that she moves to go hang out with that child and "help" him with his new girlfriend.

3 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I am a Hook fan and I also have to saw Yawn on Whook.  The story is pretty boring.  As a character, he's pretty boring. 

We've barely seen WHook. He's had, what, two lines, maybe in the flashbacks ever since he joined the team. Rogers needs something to bounce off of. Tilly shows promise, but as much as I love Colin, him being alone and gazing pensively at things isn't the most exciting television. I think it would even help if we saw more of WHook in the past, so that straight-arrow Rogers is a contrast to still figuring things out and tending to be inappropriate WHook.

[Mabinogia]

33 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

when it's not healthy or normal for a parent of an adult child to be so lost without that child in her life that she moves to go hang out with that child and "help" him with his new girlfriend.

and it really doesn't help when she has far more chemistry with her grown son than he does with his new girlfriend. Really, if I were Cinders I'd be really worried that Henry might have some rather complicated feelings for his now closer to the same age mom.

 

35 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think it would even help if we saw more of WHook in the past,

I agree. I feel like I have no idea who WHook is. To me he's just Rodgers playing dress up. Mostly I just think of him as regular Hook. I'm not a CS fan so it's easier for me to just think of him as the character I used to love before he hooked up with Emma. (hooked/Hook..hahaha Corny, I know, but it's all I got)

I'd like to see more of pretty much any of the fairytale version of these characters, so long as their name isn't Cinderella. Sadly, most of the fairytale flashbacks seem to have featured her. I could be wrong, I tend to zone out since this show is not holding my attention, but the overall feel I'm getting is the flashbacks are about 85% her right now.

[KingOfHearts]

I love how they made such a big deal about "QUEEN" on the door at the end of S6, only for Regina to ditch everybody to help out her codependent son pursue his deadbeat girlfriend.

[Rumsy4]

It's basically Regina's fault Drizella knows about the Dark Curse and how to make it "unbreakable". She's the cause of it all! Murderella should probably spend Season 8 planning revenge on her mother-in-law for ruining all their lives. She can use Henry's heart to re-cast the Dark Curse.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

10 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Good news!  Since Drucilla killed the Prince, there's no need for the resistance anymore!  All your questions are therefore pointless.  ;) 

There's still a King, but what do you want to bet we never see him?

[Camera One]

I wonder if they were explore whether this All-Important Off-screen King will break off the alliance after finding out a member of Tremaine's family murdered his son.  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

22 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I love how they made such a big deal about "QUEEN" on the door at the end of S6, only for Regina to ditch everybody to help out her codependent son pursue his deadbeat girlfriend.

Right?  I'm imagining that Grumpy immediately added SNOW next to Queen and then they all ushered her into her newly redecorated with bird pictures office with a great big sigh of relief. 

[Rushmoras]

You know, I always found it funny about the Dark Curse. The caster: "OOh, now you all gonna get it. I'm going to cast a Dark Curse, which will take you not into Hell or somewhere similar, no, but to 21st century USA, where all people have place to live, steady jobs, income and social life instead of living under fiefdom in the middle ages with magic." At least you could put them in Detroit or somewhere similar, lol.

[jhlipton]

On 11/30/2017 at 11:02 AM, Rushmoras said:

At least you could put them in Detroit or somewhere similar, lol.

Or Somalia or Ethiopia.

[Mabinogia]

If I enacted a dark curse to punish all those I thought found the happiness that was denied to me it would look a lot more like the Hunger Games than Storybrooke. Storybrooke is were I would send myself to get my happily ever after while the rest of them are out in the woods having to kill each other. That'd teach em!

However, if anyone ever chooses to curse me, I would like the charming, quaint Storybrooke curse please. Not the gritty urban Hyperion Heights curse though. That one is kind of, just, sad.

[jhlipton]

14 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

However, if anyone ever chooses to curse me, I would like the charming, quaint Storybrooke curse please.

Given your user-name, I would have thought pre-Roman Wales would be your first choice.

[Miles]

On 11.11.2017 at 11:44 PM, Miles said:

I wonder who Drizella loved the most and killed to enact the dark curse... Ah who am I kidding, the writers already forgot about that requirement. It's also not like Rumpel had to search for a 100 years to find a suitable rube to do it for him or anything...

It's not that hard to figure out. She dealt Henry a mortal wound and when the curse breaks he dies. That is of course not how it worked before, but it will be how it works now.

Spoiler

Ha called it! See episode 07x10. I'm two for two here.

[Shanna Marie]

And here we have the dumbest move since the Oz witches gave Zelena the pendant to amplify her magic after she went five whole minutes without magically stalking her sister. Yes, let's just teach magic to the possibly unstable young woman who has threatened your son with dire torture and tell her all about the Dark Curse. What could possibly go wrong? Why bother learning anything about her before giving her weapons?

Regina and Henry were so creepy in this episode that there were a number of moments when I was looking at the TV out of the corner of my eye while doing something else, and I'd forget who the people in the scene were and expect them to kiss because of their body language and the way they were talking. And this is with a Regina who knows Henry is her son (both past and present).

The Dark Curse doesn't seem all that apt for what Drizella wants to do. Regina had already failed at a number of revenge attempts and was magically blocked from doing any harm to Snow in their world (plus, Rumple wanted the curse cast and manipulated her into doing it). There's no reason why Drizella would need to cast the curse to do what she wants to her mother. There are so many memory-altering spells that she could do where they are if she wanted to mess with her that way. You'd think it would be more effective to rip everything she has away from her in her home territory. Siding with Ella and taking down the king and Lady Tremaine and maybe making her a servant would have been a lot more effective than making her wealthy and powerful in another world.

Spoiler

I know Gothel was manipulating her and wanted the curse cast so she could get back to Seattle, but I don't think they'd met yet at this point in the story, and it's not like Drizella learned anything more than the Dark Curse existed, so she wasn't getting info out of Regina on Gothel's behalf.

[Camera One]

31 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

The Dark Curse doesn't seem all that apt for what Drizella wants to do. 

It really doesn't.  It's one of those twists that was maybe surprising for a moment but doesn't actually work long-term because it just doesn't fit the story told.

But I'm not rewatching this one tonight... getting through two bad episodes might be too much each week, LOL.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

It really doesn't.  It's one of those twists that was maybe surprising for a moment but doesn't actually work long-term because it just doesn't fit the story told.

I think there's always been issues with the Curse and its effectiveness at achieving the goals of the caster. If Drizella wanted to start fresh in a world where either her mother loved her or was suffering, I could see that working. But Drizella doesn't want a clean slate. She just wants to torture her mother. You don't really need a Curse to do that. When Regina cast the first curse, she had exhausted all other methods of revenge and turned to the curse in desperation. Rumple had to push her off the edge and then some to get her to go through with it. Granted, she had to kill her father and Drizella didn't, but it was still overkill. 

[Camera One]

And in the first Curse, Regina was misled into what the Curse would be like.  She was so desperate she was going into it blind.

Meanwhile Drizella latched onto the idea of the Dark Curse just because Regina did it, full stop.  There was a hundred and one other ways to make her mother suffer.  I think your scenario of Drizella wanting to start fresh in a new world would have made this episode's "shocking" backstory make some sort of sense.

I'm especially not looking forward to watching it, because I just hate watching people be manipulated and it's hard to watch Regina stupidly fall right into Drizella's trap.  I guess when you become a purveyor of Hope™, you must surrender 95% of your brain cells.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I really don't like Adelaide's acting choices as Evil Drizella/Ivy. It's campy in all the wrong ways. It doesn't help that all her lines are terrible. I love her in the present as the Ivy who gets pushed around by Victoria and wants to change her life for the better, but not as yet another witch. Such a misfire for a character with the potential to be likeable.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

I love her in the present as the Ivy who gets pushed around by Victoria and wants to change her life for the better, but not as yet another witch. Such a misfire for a character with the potential to be likeable.

I wonder if it would have worked better if they'd delayed the revelation that she was EVIL. They were doing so well with making her sympathetic in the present, with her taking the abuse from her mother and starting to warm up to Henry. I think if they'd developed that further and had her really integrated into everything before they pulled the rug out from under us, it might have been more shocking, and if we didn't know she was evil, then we wouldn't have had to watch Roni and Henry be misled and manipulated because we would have been just as misled and manipulated.

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

There was a hundred and one other ways to make her mother suffer.  I think your scenario of Drizella wanting to start fresh in a new world would have made this episode's "shocking" backstory make some sort of sense.

Yeah, that could have worked, for her to have used the curse to create a scenario in which she was the favored, loved daughter and her mother had no memory of Anastasia. It would be a loophole in the Rule of Magic (if they're even pretending those exist anymore) in which you can't use magic to make someone love you, but the curse gives them false memories that makes them think they love you, and maybe that's almost the same thing, at least for a while.

This show has really had some dumb revenge schemes. There was Regina's original curse, which moved everyone to a place with modern conveniences and mildly dissatisfying lives and where she didn't really do anything to hurt Snow while she had the power to do so. There was Zelena's scheme to impersonate a random woman who conveniently turned out to be Regina's boyfriend's wife (there was no way she could have known this when she impersonated her) and then leave Regina in her mansion among her friends while she had to go live in a crappy apartment with a man she didn't love. In the musical, there was her grand revenge scheme to help Regina solve her problem and then later take credit for having done so (ooh, burn!). And now we have Drizella getting revenge on her mother by making her wealthy and powerful and making herself subservient to her.

Another difference between Regina's curse and this one is that Regina was just about entirely alone. She had the Black Knights, who may or may not have been coerced to serve her due to having their hearts ripped out, and her father and sometimes sort of Rumple, but everyone else in the kingdom hated her. There had been a war fought against her that she'd lost. Everyone loved Snow, and no matter what Regina did, she couldn't turn the people against Snow. She could only turn people against Snow by changing the circumstances. But in this case, everyone hates Lady Tremaine. There's a revolution against her. All the other characters want to bring her down. Drizella would have had tons of allies. She'd have been welcomed into the rebel movement. The curse stuff just isolates Drizella further and takes her further from getting what she supposedly wants. She's actively working against and opposing the other people who also hate her mother and want to bring her down.

Basically, the writers needed the curse because that's the premise of the show, and they wanted a twist, so they set it up to look like the most Regina-like person cast it, but then they made it be someone else, and they gave her Regina's motives but without Regina's situation and reasons.

[Camera One]

38 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I wonder if it would have worked better if they'd delayed the revelation that she was EVIL. They were doing so well with making her sympathetic in the present, with her taking the abuse from her mother and starting to warm up to Henry. I think if they'd developed that further and had her really integrated into everything before they pulled the rug out from under us, it might have been more shocking, and if we didn't know she was evil, then we wouldn't have had to watch Roni and Henry be misled and manipulated because we would have been just as misled and manipulated.

I don't think it would have helped, unless they changed Drizella's backstory and motivations so that it was a bit more relatable and believable.  If they had delayed the reveal that was evil, it would make rewatching the season frustrating as well, since you know they were being duped. Knowing the full story, I no longer liked Ivy in the present.  I could've gotten on side if her main goal was to punish her mother, but she was so nasty to everyone else.  Heck, I even felt somewhat more sympathy for Regina in earlier seasons than her so something was seriously wrong with their plotting and conception of the character.

Spoiler

But at the end of the day, A&E were probably after the "shocking" twists.  You think the villain is Lady Tremaine... no, it's Drizella!  You think the villain is Drizella, no, the true Big Bad is Mother Gothel!  Darn, we revealed that too soon, let's have another Big Bad, the Serial Killer!  And shocking twist, the Serial Killer is Hansel!  Darn, now what?  

[Shanna Marie]

15 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I don't think it would have helped, unless they changed Drizella's backstory and motivations so that it was a bit more relatable and believable.  If they had delayed the reveal that was evil, it would make rewatching the season frustrating as well, since you know they were being duped. Knowing the full story, I no longer liked Ivy in the present.  I could've gotten on side if her main goal was to punish her mother, but she was so nasty to everyone else. 

It would have definitely taken some rewriting, and they couldn't have had her instantly go to full-on evil in about 30 seconds in the past. As I said from in the original airing discussion in this thread, this was a story that needed to be a slow build. Rather than doing it all in one "centric," have it take time for her to learn magic, learn about the curse, maybe start to make friends with the rebels, and then have something more happen to send her over the edge. She needed to feel betrayed by everyone to even partially validate the curse, and that's just not there. She's attacking people who would have been on her side and who would have been happy to help her, who had formed an organization to go after her mother.

Spoiler

I do think her feelings for her mother are somewhat validated once we get the full backstory and see that her mother blamed a small child for not being overjoyed to see a mother she hadn't known for most of her life, but I feel like we're missing the real trigger for the curse. Maybe if she'd acted right after learning her mother was planning to use her heart to save her sister it would have made more sense. Or maybe if there'd been more to Gothel's manipulation, like she was siding with the rebels until Gothel started working on her and eventually convinced her to cast the curse, instead of her having already deciding it before she met Gothel.

[Camera One]

28 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

They couldn't have had her instantly go to full-on evil in about 30 seconds in the past. 

That was the key for me too.

You'd think a team of veteran writers aka master storytellers would have learned that lesson at some point.  But oh well, you can get a 4-year network writing deal without it, so no biggie.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Camera One

[Camera One]

This episode really sucks.  I didn't realize I already disliked the episode the first time around, but I hate it even more now.

I find it annoying that the blue flowers that came from "good" magic could so easily be used by evil.  There is seriously no justice.  In the real world or this fictional one.  What else is new, I guess.

"By the end of the day, Regina won't be a problem," said Ivy to Mop Head.  Huh?  Clueless Roni wasn't even close to being a threat.  Isn't Regina more of a problem with her memories?  So three episodes in a row, we find out someone got their memories back or had their memory all along.  Episode 4 was Weaver/Rumple.  Episode 5 was Ivy.  Episode 6 was Regina.  

It annoyed me that Adult Henry didn't eat the crust and threw it in the trash.

Roni said to Henry, "Be charming and don't slouch."  That was how Henry figured out it wasn't really Regina but was actually The Evil Queen in Season 6.   You'd think that was meant to reveal that Roni wasn't the real Regina, but the "evil" half that turned into a "hero".

The "theme" of this episode was that Roni/Regina needed/wanted someone to mother in both the present and the past.  It was beyond clunky.

So it was this episode that Rogers said 10 years ago, Eloise Gardener was "a normal kid.  Liked art.  Hated school".  

Spoiler

There's no way Mother Gothel was a "kid" 10 years ago, when she's actually around Rogers' own age.  If they kept calling her the "lost girl" as a misdirect so we wouldn't guess she was Eloise Gardiner, then it was cheap.

In that climatic scene where the prince was killed, Lady Tremaine kept looking at Drizella like there was egg on her face.  The acting was just so bad.

This episode was a combination of irritating and just plain boring.  There were a few good scenes between Rogers and Alice, but this was two episodes in a row where they gave him a really boring subplot.

I couldn't stand Weaver/Rumple either when he had that full-of-himself expression after Roni said she owed him a favor.  Are you sure you're ready to give up that dagger, oh sociopathic one?

Edited September 29, 2019 by Camera One

[tennisgurl]

This episode was so stupid, and its even stupider on re-watch then it was the first time. Ivy/Drizella is so much more interesting as a morally grey mean girl who has kind of ambiguous motives instead of a super villain who is manipulating everything. Her plan also makes absolutely no sense, even by the standards of the the Dark Curse. Not only does it affect a grand total of about five people (half of whom have already woken up) who Drizella hardly even knows other than her mom, what is even the point? She gave her mother tons of wealth and power and made herself the long suffering assistant/daughter who longs for approval? Just like in their normal world? What the fuck? 

Spoiler

And even knowing the Gothel was manipulating her and pulling her strings doesent explain it at all. If anything it raises further questions!

So Roni/Regina always wants someone to need her. Adult Henry and Regina have so much inappropriate sexual chemistry it makes me so uncomfortable. Its not even just that they are parent/child that are the same age, Emma never had weird sexual tension with her parents, even though they were the same age (she and Charming had serious father/daughter vibes as soon as he got his memories back) so its not just inevitable with same age kids/parents, its just the weird Henry Regina thing. No wonder she follows him around to other realms and tries to find another kid to latch onto as soon as she thinks he wont need her anymore. Really, it should be a bigger deal that Regina (and the rest of his family, but who cares about them!) missed so much of Henry's life, but I guess its not? Of course, the time line is basically a balloon animal by now, so who even knows how much time has actually passed for anyone or what experiences they've even had. 

So Ivy told Regina who she was because...

[Camera One]

Years ago...

DRIZELLA: "The Curse will make my mother pay!  She will get to boss me around and treat me disdainfully daily while I do whatever she tells me to do!"

MOPHEAD: "I despise your mother as well and she won't know what hit her.  During the Curse, she will get to keep me chained up in a sterile warehouse so I can't even drink my own tea without her permission!"

DRIZELLA AND MOPHEAD: "Revenge will be ours.  We're not just evil or wicked.  We're worse - We're BAAAAAAAAAD!"

Edited October 1, 2019 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Even if the reasoning was they wanted Victoria to think she won before pulling rug out from under her, how long did Drizella wait in HH before enacting her plan? How long had the curse been going on? Why did she wait for Henry to come to town? Why did she punish everyone else? If I were specifically mad at my mother for abusing and neglecting me, that wouldn't make me an automatic super villain. 

[Camera One]

8 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Even if the reasoning was they wanted Victoria to think she won before pulling rug out from under her, how long did Drizella wait in HH before enacting her plan? Why did she wait for Henry to come to town? 

That's a key question that was particularly relevant to this episode, and I don't think they ever answered it.

Mop Head wasn't able to use magic without the blue flowers of hope, which only sprang up once Henry came to Hyperion Heights.  Did Mophead and Drizella expect that (and if so, did they want Henry to come to Hyperion Heights)?  If they didn't know, then how did they expect to get magic back to exact revenge on Victoria?  What were they waiting for?

Edited October 2, 2019 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

Mop Head wasn't able to use magic without the blue flowers of hope, which only sprang up once Henry came to Hyperion Heights.  Did Mophead and Drizella expect that (and if so, did they want Henry to come to Hyperion Heights)?  If they didn't know, then how did they expect to get magic back to exact revenge on Victoria?  What were they waiting for?

Are the plot elements confusing and unnecessarily complicated in S7, or is it just me? I have a hard time recalling certain crucial details like this for this particular season, but I can pull some really obscure stuff out from the back of my mind when it comes to seasons like S1, S3, etc. (You know, the weird tidbits only "true fans" remember.) I can't for the life of me how the plot for S7 even worked.

Even when I watch it, I'm repeatedly like "wait, what just happened?" 

Edited October 2, 2019 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

43 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Are the plot elements confusing and unnecessarily complicated in S7, or is it just me?

It's not just you.  Just thinking about the timeline of Season 7 makes my mind become completely blank from confusion.  I could hardly remember what happened in Episode 1 about the flower blooming (even though I just watched it two weeks ago) so I had to go back and remind myself.  The flower only bloomed because Jacinda randomly found a coin on the ground while sweeping after begging for her job back after Henry turned her location in to the police which caused Jacinda to be inspired by Lucy to make a wish at the well in the abandoned community garden that Victoria never bothered to dig up until now, just because.  Mophead and Drizella's planning skills must have been extensive.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Camera One