S13.E06: The Bunker

[Aethera]

Quote

When several women go missing in Virginia, the BAU must figure out what they have in common in order to find them.

[ReidFan]

CBS is pulling new eps of both CM and Seal tonight because of the baseball game. 

(not sure yet what's happening on CTV)

but CBS will be airing back to back repeat eps of Seal.

(and I guess I can choose which season 1 episode to rewatch tonight if CTV follows CBS' lead)

[normasm]

Where did they announce this, Riff? I'm steamed!

[JMO]

Guess this puts to rest the controversy over whether the World Series impacts viewership. CBS sure seems to think so. 

[ReidFan]

44 minutes ago, normasm said:

Where did they announce this, Riff? I'm steamed!

I saw it at Spoiler TV and at tvguide online, for two. on twitter as well.

[MMC]

Something tells me that their main concern is Seal because despite the fact it is a brand new drama it's demo is identical to CM a show that has been on several seasons already plus Seal over all viewership for it's  last episode was only about a million more than CM. As far as DVR viewing I will have to check again although I am pretty sure that CM is doing slightly better in that department.

[Danielg342]

4 hours ago, JMO said:

Guess this puts to rest the controversy over whether the World Series impacts viewership. CBS sure seems to think so. 

I know I was going to watch Game 7 over my usual Wednesday fare, so I'm happy it's been pushed back a week.

[Annber03]

I don't follow sports, so I'm "eh" about this, but I get why they did it. Ah, well. Look forward to seeing the show next week, then. 

[ReidFan]

I *get* why they figure they'd lose in the ratings tonight, a championship deciding ball game. (make it hockey, and yeah, I'm there too. but...)

 

I  wish we'd get CM reruns though, instead of Seal which I have absolutely no interest in. Hey, CBS, how about airing LDSK!?

[secnarf]

I had no idea there was a baseball game tonight and was super confused to turn on the TV and see one of the episodes from Reid's prison arc last season (that's what CTV seems to be playing).

Thanks for clarifying!

[Willowy]

They did the same thing last year.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I was weirded out and confusedly wondering why my borrowed version of the aired episode last night was labeled as the new episode, but turned out to be a 'Reid in Prison' arc episode....  and also thinking that - before my brain fully caught up to where I realized the situation - Walker looked pretty un-deceased for a dead guy.

Edited November 3, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

also thinking that - before my brain fully caught up to where I realized the situation - Walker looked pretty un-deceased for a dead guy.

Well, we are in the "Day of the Dead", and Wednesday was All Souls' Eve, so...

[Aethera]

According to TVDB this is now airing tomorrow, so I'm editing the title.  Let's hope it does!

[ReidFan]

::::giving the PVR side eye to make sure it knows it's supposed to record tomorrow::::

hmmmmm.... PVR claims 'Mirror Image' in the 'new' episode spot tomorrow.....(CTV @ 8 pm) better not be! The CBS one @ 10 pm calls for The Bunker though. Both have been manually added now because I don't trust technology. If it is a repeat, I just delete....

[JMO]

My DVR is programmed to record first run episodes for the series.  It was NOT planning on recording tonight, because it thinks it recorded 'The Bunker' last week, and isn't programmed to record what it thinks is a re-run.  I think it's worthwhile to check your own devices, if you're planning to record.

[Annber03]

I too have mine programmed that way, but my DVR's been crapping out on me regardless lately-it'll record the shows and show them sitting in my "recorded stuff" list, but anytime I go to play them back, the episode freezes up and clicks out of the recording, and then I can't even do anything with the channel it goes back to for a few minutes as it tries to "unfreeze" itself to return to normal. I think I just need a new DVR player in general. 

(Weird thing is that the stuff sitting there that I recorded before October (when this DVR issue started)) plays just fine when I go to watch any of it. So I don't know what's up with that.)

Thank goodness for the CBS website if I need to rewatch something, at least. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Annber03

[ReidFan]

sounds like it's time to replay the box, Annber..... our previous one was doing that to me too, it messed up recording <whatever the episode before A Beautiful Disaster was called> ...Then, the next day  it recorded an episode of some show nobody in the house even watches. And a week later, it froze, as you describe above, EVERY time I tried to watch A Beautiful Disaster, even though it said it was there. (Fortunately, it reairs later in the week and I caught it then at the time) but I took the pvr box back to our provider, the techie there plugged it in and played with it for a few minutes and said 'yep, it's fried'.

I was so mad, I had diligently saved all the season 11 episodes on the pvr up to that point, and there they were, gone....

[Willowy]

@Annber03 There's also the lovely Amazon Video, where you can buy it the next day in glorious HD with no commercials for 2.99. If it's a fave episode, it's worth it. If you buy several eps you get like half price on the full season. :)

[secnarf]

On 11/7/2017 at 1:21 PM, ReidFan said:

::::giving the PVR side eye to make sure it knows it's supposed to record tomorrow::::

hmmmmm.... PVR claims 'Mirror Image' in the 'new' episode spot tomorrow.....(CTV @ 8 pm) better not be! The CBS one @ 10 pm calls for The Bunker though. Both have been manually added now because I don't trust technology. If it is a repeat, I just delete....

Mine shows CTV showing Mirror Image at 8pm (it doesn't think it's a new episode), but then at 10pm The Bunker will be on CTV (and it does think this is a new episode, but didn't automatically set to record).

Edit: Can confirm a repeat of Mirror Image at 8pm.

Edited November 9, 2017 by secnarf

[Annber03]

13 minutes ago, Willowy said:

@Annber03 There's also the lovely Amazon Video, where you can buy it the next day in glorious HD with no commercials for 2.99. If it's a fave episode, it's worth it. If you buy several eps you get like half price on the full season. :)

Unfortunately, I don't have the money on me to do that right now, but yeah, when I work that issue out, I will definitely look into that sort of thing. 

@ReidFan Oh, that'd be so frustrating, indeed! I've been trying to save some of my older stuff that will still play to a DVD, so hopefully I can finish that up (there's not much left to save in there, thankfully) before changing the thing out.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Annber03

[ReidFan]

OMFG... CTV, you guys are a bunch of incompetent aholes. They ARE re-airing "Mirror Image" from last season.

what a bunch of morons.

followed by a hearty LOL....... they are airing the new one, simulcast with CBS (dammit, I hate that!) at 10 pm.... I wonder if the execs at CTV have decided/realised that 8 pm is NOT a good air time for Criminal Minds....

Edited November 9, 2017 by ReidFan

[normasm]

Riff, will they play the Bunker at 9 or 10?

[ReidFan]

10.

L&O SVU is on at 9.

[Hotchgirl18]

Sorry guys. Abandoning  criminal minds for  CMA awards! Reba sang amazing!

[Annber03]

Ha, I liked the conversation about how everyone would spend their last day on earth :p. Aw at Reid's response in particular.

Pretty creepy, and timely, case. I think the resolution was far too easy-these people are snapped out of their delusions just like that, and by FBI agents, no less? But Chrissie whacking Lawrence in the head was pretty awesome, and I was so happy to see her reunited with Joanna, and for Joanna to get to meet her nephew as well. I was actually worried for a while there that something might've happened to Chrissie. 

I also liked Allie. Quite a fighter, she was, and it was good to see how hellbent she was on getting out of there. 

JJ and Reid trying to figure out what to do while stuck in that bunker was a good scene, too. Kinda wish their investigation of the bunker could've gone a little longer, 'cause it'd be interesting to see how they would've navigated it and all, but eh, that might've gone more into "Minimal Loss" territory if they had. Still, a good case overall. I particularly liked the nod to that infamous "Twilight Zone" episode-was thinking of that very thing right before Garcia commented on it :D. 

And on the note of Garcia, so she's planning to move, eh? Interesting development. Wonder where she'll end up living? 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Annber03

[secnarf]

3 hours ago, ReidFan said:

OMFG... CTV, you guys are a bunch of incompetent aholes. They ARE re-airing "Mirror Image" from last season.

what a bunch of morons.

followed by a hearty LOL....... they are airing the new one, simulcast with CBS (dammit, I hate that!) at 10 pm.... I wonder if the execs at CTV have decided/realised that 8 pm is NOT a good air time for Criminal Minds....

If it's pushed to 10pm I'll no longer watch it live (except for weeks like this one, when I work evening shift on Thurs). It's not worth being tired the next day for.

[CrimeFan12]

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I particularly liked the nod to that infamous "Twilight Zone" episode-was thinking of that very thing right before Garcia commented on it :D. 

Oh yes, that episode.  Guy has an entire library to read and he breaks his glasses.

[Annber03]

One of the most heartbreaking TZ episodes ever. So good, but so cruel. 

[ReidFan]

I was disappointed that Reid didn't figure out the door code was 1200. Heck, I SAID it out loud as soon as he started going on about the combinations of numbers and how long it would take....

 

and while I really liked the direction (Aisha has some talent there!), the one scene in the BAU where Rossi, Alvez and Simmons were discussing the case, and the camera circled around them made me nauseous. The circling around them was a good idea, but it was too fast and incited dizziness. A slower panorama woulda made it perfect.

[Willowy]

It's my favorite Twilight Zone. That one and Talking Tina. And the one with Veronica Cartwright where she's invaded by aliens. And the one with the sweaty painting. Oh also the one with Shatner. And the one with the pig faces, and oh! The one with the tiny people in the big container!

Maybe I don't have a favorite after all.

[Annber03]

I love all of those, too, Willowy :D. I also love the "Room for one more, honey" one, and the one with the woman who keeps seeing a hitchhiker while driving cross-country. 

(...okay, now I really want CM to do a "Twilight Zone" style homage episode or something :p. That'd be fun.)

[Willowy]

Also, Daryl Hammond sucked. I did not buy him as the UnSub.

@ReidFan, I totally see why Reid should've gotten that code. 

This needed to be a two-parter.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Willowy said:

Also, Daryl Hammond sucked. I did not buy him as the UnSub.

Yeah, on the one hand, he looked appropriately "off", but on the other hand, I agree that somebody a little more charismatic/properly "creepy-looking" would've fit better. Somebody a little more raving mad, kinda Manson-ish, to fit with the paranoia theme. 

[Sharpie66]

I appreciated that it was the creepy guy’s own words that sunk him. What was it? “Do what you want with her”? Pretty cold, and his co-survivalist handed it right back to him. 

(BTW, any Twilight Zone fans might like the news that CBSAccess is reviving it with showrunner Jordan Peele.)

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Its episodes like this that highlight how invested I am into a single character.  Before he was there to tell JJ to gather the team because he figured it out, I was seriously concerned we wouldn't see Reid again at all after the first team gathering towards the beginning.  I was mentally debating "where the hell did he go!?" before he showed back up.

Also highlighted by this episode, how much I like the JJ&Reid dynamic.  They need to be paired up out in the field a lot more.  If I can't get them paired up the way I really want them to be, then let's see them work on catching the UnSub's together during cases much more, please.

The case itself was nice only because nobody died - other than the suicidal doc.  These kinds of cases don't happen often, so its a very nice breath of fresh air when it does occur.

Doomsday preppers, man.  Both the smartest people in the room (if, and when, the time comes that their hard work will pay off) while also being the creepiest and unhinged (until said time comes).

[Annber03]

15 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Also highlighted by this episode, how much I like the JJ&Reid dynamic.  They need to be paired up out in the field a lot more.  If I can't get them paired up the way I really want them to be, then let's see them work on catching the UnSub's together during cases much more, please.

I saw a comment elsewhere earlier that made me laugh where somebody was like, "Okay, when has sending JJ and Reid out ahead of the others ever worked out well?"* :p. They do seem to get stuck together in scary situations an awful lot. At least they were wise enough to not split up after entering that bunker. 

But yeah, I like it when they team up, too :). I like how they talk out their game plan with each other in those moments, and the way they try and talk to unsubs together. 

*(That person also made a good point about how odd it seems that Emily, who's already nearly died twice, hasn't thought of a "how I'd spend my last day on earth" scenario before. Course, then again, it's one thing to think about stuff like that in regards to death by something like an injury or illness. It's another entirely to try and imagine such a scenario when it comes to the literal end of the world.)

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

3 hours ago, Willowy said:

Also, Daryl Hammond sucked. I did not buy him as the UnSub.

@ReidFan, I totally see why Reid should've gotten that code. 

This needed to be a two-parter.

I was unsure of the episode run-time when JJ entered the bunker after Reid and the hatch closed... before confirmation of the time left upon checking it, I really thought the black screen lead out was going to end in a "To Be Continued".  And as much as I usually hate that  - quick gratification type here - I would have been ok with a TBC in this case.

Also, I agree @ReidFan, that it was borderline criminal the way they nerfed Reid's mental acuity to not be able to figure out that the code was 1200.  Hell, even JJ could have pointed it out, something like "Just try a shot in the dark, like 1200, an homage to the Doomsday Clock.".  

Edited November 9, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[JMO]

I’ve been trying to think about whether I would have enjoyed this more if the entire premise (and the location of the missings) hadn’t been given away in the promo and sneak peeks, two weeks ago. 

Maybe.  But it had all been given away two weeks, ago, along with any hint of suspense.  CM really needs to wrest control of its publicity arm.  Since we pretty much already knew the plot, there was really no need to spend so much time down in the bunker with the victims and unsubs. 

This is a broken record, but there are too many people on this team.  This episode, it led to an unusual degree of stilted line delivery, especially by the profilers who were pushed to the sidelines.  It’s hard to get much inflection going when you only get to speak eight or ten words at a time.  It was fascinating how much the members of the team each knew about the whole doomsday clock idea, including the specific dates of events contributing to it.  Fascinating, how they all had to share an exposition that might have once belonged, in its entirety,  to Reid.

There are times when ‘direction’ can function as its own character in a production.  That can be a good thing, or not.  I appreciated that Aisha Tyler tried some different things, but I’m not sure those things always contributed positively to the scene.  The bodycam technique, so successfully employed by ‘ER’, made me motion sick when it swung around Rossi, Tara, Luke and Matt.   

The parameters given to Garcia to deduce the unsub and his partner were more preposterous than usual, especially given the instant responses.   

And Reid.  Poor Reid, who continues to be more abused by the writers than he ever was in prison.  He’s back to being socially awkward (intruding into a conversation with the ‘I read about a guy who only owned 79 items, including his underwear), and emotionally blunted (his reaction to being trapped in the bunker, ending with the ridiculous thing about not accounting for finger fatigue).  Of everything about this episode, I am most disappointed with the treatment of Reid as a caricature once again.  I hope this was an aberration, and not a harbinger of things to come.

AJ did well with her focus. I expected some final reflection on having been able to return the sister of the woman with whom she'd been meeting, in contrast to her own situation.  Since they brought up the whole idea of her being able to relate on that basis.

I'd like to offer to help Garcia find an apartment in whichever unnamed location Morgan now inhabits.   

[normasm]

JMO, I can only point to everything you said and concur! I'm so dispirited by this episode and this season so far, that it's all i have energy for.

[UncleChuck]

The team had every reason to believe (especially after finding the bunker hatch) that the Unsub was keeping his victims alive and some had been held for years.  So why in holy heck did the first two agents have to breach the bunker alone without waiting for backup?  Would ten minutes have made much difference?

[Mariana]

I normally rewatch the episode with subtitles but not this one.

I agree with JMO about Reid and I think it's ridiculous that he is not showing a signal of PTSD or PTSS (whatever they call it now) specially if he is in a bunker.

I liked JJ, it reminded me Mosley Lane when she is the one who believes in Charlie's mom.

[ReidFan]

lol...further to my previous squawking about CTV and their airing times --  @secnarf you will relate.  

According to my online listings, next Wednesday, CTV Toronto says it's airing 'Neon Terror' at 8 pm.

CBS Buffalo is airing 'Dust and Bones' at 10 pm.

And the CTV affiliate from Durham 'Chex channel 12' (which is cable 16 for me) is airing 'Dust and Bones' at 8 pm.

 Like get your act together, CTV. which is it already?! I fired off a complaint to them about airing Mirror Image at 8 last night and The Bunker at 10, but not letting people know that ahead of time (I wonder how many people tuned it at 8, saw 'Mirror Image' and gave up, thinking they weren't getting the new CM last night. I reiterate, CTV is apparently run by morons) 

But it does look like it's gonna stay at 8 pm for us here in the Toronto area.

Edited November 9, 2017 by ReidFan
typo (as always)

[Sharpie66]

One thing I did like about MGG’s line delivery in the bunker was the absolute focus in his face as he talked about carbon monoxide buildup killing them before lack of oxygen. He just tossed that line off as if it was unimportant while he moved to the touchpad, which was important to their survival. (Also, Reid clearing a location with gun in hand—boy, that gets me fanning my face every time! His hair looks less dorky in that sequence, for some reason. Sorry, no more fangirling.)

[Twilight Man]

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

JJ and Reid trying to figure out what to do while stuck in that bunker was a good scene, too. 

Amazingly, earlier, on a different network, Dembe was trapped in an airtight refrigerated truck, and that show was pointing out, as well, that dying from the carbon monoxide levels would occur long before the oxygen would be depleted.

 

Thank you; you guys are definitely "NOT" like "Zoo" or "Scorpion" or..............

[ReidFan]

right! yes, you are right!.....

 

hmmmm...

being in that bunker in the first place, and getting locked into that cell....should've triggered the PTSD/PTSS. Or at least a mention of it. If he is so over it, then that would negate the whole 100/30 thing too.

[JMO]

Yes.  This would have been a much more interesting episode if it had been Reid and JJ trying to find a way to get them all out, a la 'Minimal Loss'.  There was room to inject a reaction from Reid to being confined, and they could even have expanded on JJ's feelings about her sister, and their mutual support of each other and their friendship (since EM said there would be some of that this season).  But it would have required either A) a two-parter or B) them getting into the bunker before 10:50 (yes, I checked the time).  

[threebluestars]

I think they missed out on some good moments with the victims that had been there for years - their reactions at seeing the outside, the kids reactions leaving a bunker they have NEVER been out of. I think it could have been really fascinating and good TV to see that part of things.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

9 hours ago, JMO said:

I’ve been trying to think about whether I would have enjoyed this more if the entire premise (and the location of the missings) hadn’t been given away in the promo and sneak peeks, two weeks ago. 

Maybe.  But it had all been given away two weeks, ago, along with any hint of suspense.  CM really needs to wrest control of its publicity arm.  Since we pretty much already knew the plot, there was really no need to spend so much time down in the bunker with the victims and unsubs. 

This is a broken record, but there are too many people on this team.  This episode, it led to an unusual degree of stilted line delivery, especially by the profilers who were pushed to the sidelines.  It’s hard to get much inflection going when you only get to speak eight or ten words at a time.  It was fascinating how much the members of the team each knew about the whole doomsday clock idea, including the specific dates of events contributing to it.  Fascinating, how they all had to share an exposition that might have once belonged, in its entirety,  to Reid.

There are times when ‘direction’ can function as its own character in a production.  That can be a good thing, or not.  I appreciated that Aisha Tyler tried some different things, but I’m not sure those things always contributed positively to the scene.  The bodycam technique, so successfully employed by ‘ER’, made me motion sick when it swung around Rossi, Tara, Luke and Matt.   

The parameters given to Garcia to deduce the unsub and his partner were more preposterous than usual, especially given the instant responses.   

And Reid.  Poor Reid, who continues to be more abused by the writers than he ever was in prison.  He’s back to being socially awkward (intruding into a conversation with the ‘I read about a guy who only owned 79 items, including his underwear), and emotionally blunted (his reaction to being trapped in the bunker, ending with the ridiculous thing about not accounting for finger fatigue).  Of everything about this episode, I am most disappointed with the treatment of Reid as a caricature once again.  I hope this was an aberration, and not a harbinger of things to come.

AJ did well with her focus. I expected some final reflection on having been able to return the sister of the woman with whom she'd been meeting, in contrast to her own situation.  Since they brought up the whole idea of her being able to relate on that basis.

I'd like to offer to help Garcia find an apartment in whichever unnamed location Morgan now inhabits.   

 

9 hours ago, normasm said:

JMO, I can only point to everything you said and concur! I'm so dispirited by this episode and this season so far, that it's all i have energy for.

 

8 hours ago, Mariana said:

I normally rewatch the episode with subtitles but not this one.

I agree with JMO about Reid and I think it's ridiculous that he is not showing a signal of PTSD or PTSS (whatever they call it now) specially if he is in a bunker.

I liked JJ, it reminded me Mosley Lane when she is the one who believes in Charlie's mom.

 

7 hours ago, ReidFan said:

right! yes, you are right!.....

 

hmmmm...

being in that bunker in the first place, and getting locked into that cell....should've triggered the PTSD/PTSS. Or at least a mention of it. If he is so over it, then that would negate the whole 100/30 thing too.

 

7 hours ago, JMO said:

Yes.  This would have been a much more interesting episode if it had been Reid and JJ trying to find a way to get them all out, a la 'Minimal Loss'.  There was room to inject a reaction from Reid to being confined, and they could even have expanded on JJ's feelings about her sister, and their mutual support of each other and their friendship (since EM said there would be some of that this season).  But it would have required either A) a two-parter or B) them getting into the bunker before 10:50 (yes, I checked the time).  

These are all just symptoms of the whole problem, but if it weren't for MGG/Reid, the (good) JJ&Reid moments, and some of the team bonding scenes - either between teammates or the team as a whole - this show would be in my rearview mirror.

[Annber03]

17 hours ago, JMO said:

It was fascinating how much the members of the team each knew about the whole doomsday clock idea, including the specific dates of events contributing to it.  Fascinating, how they all had to share an exposition that might have once belonged, in its entirety,  to Reid.

Eh, I don't know if I find the team knowing all those things about the doomsday clock all that odd. For one thing, I know these guys work for the BAU specifically, but since they are part of the FBI, they may all well have some knowledge of the history of the doomsday clock scenario, since it is something I imagine government officials in general would know about to some degree or another. And considering the team's history of dealing with paranoid "end of the world' types, they may have learned about that stuff in relation to those cases as well. For another, in the case of any of the characters who were born in the early '70s or prior, since they're old enough to have actually not just lived through the Cold War but have some sort of clear memories of it, they could've learned about it growing up, too.

Or, barring any of that, considering all the stories about North Korea and the talk of nuclear threats this year, they may have heard about or learned more about the whole doomsday clock thing through general news discussions on that topic as well. That's how I know about it, and I'm no Reid-level genius or government worker. 

All of that being said, however, I'll grant that I think Reid alone would've been the one to deliver all the information on the history of the doomsday clock. Even taking into account the idea that the others would also know the history of that stuff, Reid would still be the one who'd be most eager and ready to expand on and discuss it. And I'll also agree on the whole 1200 thing as well.

Unless, that is, one wants to argue that the fact he didn't catch on to that 1200 thing, or didn't feel the need to go into one of his "Reid rambles", is tied somehow to him still adjusting to being back on the job and getting into his old behaviors? I doubt that's the likely reason, of course, but it could make for a good fanwank explanation sort of thing. 

16 hours ago, Mariana said:

I agree with JMO about Reid and I think it's ridiculous that he is not showing a signal of PTSD or PTSS (whatever they call it now) specially if he is in a bunker.

I liked JJ, it reminded me Mosley Lane when she is the one who believes in Charlie's mom.

I saw somebody on the SpoilerTV site suggesting that Reid seemed kinda blase about the idea of dying via carbon monoxide. Like, yeah, obviously part of the reason he wouldn't have panicked is 'cause, well, he's had more than enough near-death experiences by now to where he's probably used to that possibility, and because he obviously knows that panicking would not help the situation. 

But if he did seem kind of nonchalant about that, perhaps that could also be a sign of his PTSS as well? I don't know if that's how that scene came across to anyone else, but that's one person's interpretation of it, so if that's what they were trying to go for in that scene, then apparently Reid's signs of PTSS are very subtle right now. 

And I totally thought of "Mosley Lane" during that scene between JJ and Charlie's mom, too :). Also, the way JJ reacted to the whole thing with Chrissie being pregnant and struggling with drugs and running away and whatnot, and her sympathy for Joanna's worry over her sister's well-being, had me wondering a bit more about what might've led to her own sister's suicide. They've never explained that part of things on the show, after all. Did her sister left any sort of note (I imagine that would've been mentioned by now if she had, but still)? Do JJ and her mom have any theories about why she may have killed herself? It just seemed at times like hearing about some of Chrissie's personal struggles affected JJ in a way that felt a bit personal on some level. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Annber03