GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Asp Burger]

Remember Tammy? 

She was really all over the show from 1998-2000, in the thick of it with Luke, Lucky, the Quatermaines, Tony, the diner/boarding-house set when she went straight and was revealed as a great cook. Felicia was using her for research purposes, writing a novel about a woman with a sordid history (did any of Felicia's writing projects ever actually turn into books?). Of course, they had to reveal that she had danced at Sonny's club years earlier and just looooooved him, because he was the bestest boss ever; there was a typically nauseating scene in which he came in to Kelly's and she ran out from behind the counter and threw her arms around him. She later started dating Mike Corbin. There was a terrible recast in mid-2000 (Patricia Healy replaced by Tamara Clatterbuck), and the character just vanished without explanation the following winter.  

They've brought on similar "good-hearted sex-trade worker" characters a few times since: Summer Halloway, Abby Haver, others? The Healy version of Tammy was the best of them, and I thought it was a shame that with all the character connections they formed with her, they dropped her without so much as a passing reference. But that was early in the Jill Farren Phelps/Megan McTavish era, and there were bigger shames to concern oneself with.   

[ulkis]

I think there was some talk that the actress had problems and they had to drop her.

[Melgaypet]

16 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

Of course, they had to reveal that she had danced at Sonny's club years earlier and just looooooved him, because he was the bestest boss ever; there was a typically nauseating scene in which he came in to Kelly's and she ran out from behind the counter and threw her arms around him.

I remember Tammy! I liked her, though the scene described here was gross. Sure, Our Hero Sonny was protective and respectful of the working girls and helped to keep them safe, unlike those other nasty pimps and gangsters. Sure. Show, please, we know who it was that got a teenage Karen hooked on pills to get her into his bed and stripping in his sleazy club.

Sonny was so much easier to tolerate when we weren't being force-fed the notion that he was just a super-duper good guy underneath it all.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Melgaypet

[Asp Burger]

Yeah, that was heavily into the period when they were not only trying to ennoble his present but whitewash his past.  

I think there was some talk that the actress had problems and they had to drop her.

Healy, you mean? I am guessing Healy because of the two Tammys, Healy has worked very little since leaving General Hospital. Clatterbuck has been on a lot of other shows, including DOOL and Y&R.  

I hope Clatterbuck has been better on those other shows. She immediately gave Tammy a vibe that was an uncomfortable switch, and I don't recall anyone liking her. She was "rougher," which might have made sense with the character's background, but she had a cold stare and an abrasive tone. When she had to play anger, it was as though the other person should fear for his/her life. In terms of air time, she got considerably less than Healy had gotten, so I think they knew it wasn't working and the character just wasn't fundamental enough to bother recasting again.  

[ulkis]

Oops, yeah, I meant Healy.

[UYI]

There's this from 2000 about Patricia Healy:

http://soapcentral.com/gh/news/2000/0911-healy.php

[SlovakPrincess]

I have no recollection of Tammy.  At all.  Which is weird, since I was definitely watching during much of that period (the end of the Robin / Jason / Carly stuff, and Liz and Lucky, and I even sort of remember Felicia suddenly claiming she was a writer and wanted to write Lila's biography or something).  

I'm sort of relieved about that ... like, yes! maybe I haven't clogged up my entire brain with TV trivia!  Most of it, but perhaps not all!

[jsbt]

I remember Tammy. I liked her. The original, not Fake!Tammy played by Tamara Clatterbuck.

[UYI]

For some strange reason, I could've sworn that I once read that Patricia Healy had died, but maybe I was just thinking about the suicide rumors I posted above in that article. 

[ulkis]

Bringing @HeatLifer's quote over here

Quote

To me, it's really simple. Allow Sam and Jason to be real characters who make mistakes, who have problems, who argue, who are confused. This version where they're essentially in a perfect bubble who only deal with their family and friends and those people's problems is what the issue is.

 

I feel like this has always been Jasam though, with the exception of the two years after the 17 flights of stairs one night stand.  (Which I'm aware actually furthers your point.) Their conflict mostly just came from whatever mobster of the week Jason was after. And Carly being a buttinsky, of course.

Can someone actually clear up the timeline for me though? Jason and Sam were together after the Ric/Sam one night stand, right? Were they together after Sam found out Jason and Liz slept together? Basically can someone tell me what happened between the one night stands up to Liason abruptly ending in early 2009 (that is what happened, right?)

[Oracle42]

Jason/ Sam got back together (for several months?) after the ONS but broke up when Sam found out Liz was pregnant and that Jason had kept it from her. Then Sam went bugnuts and hired two members of the crew of her TV show to scare Liz and then she watched while Jake was kidnapped. I don't think they spoke to each other without fighting for a good portion of 2007 and rarely interacted in 2008

[ulkis]

Thanks.

[Oracle42]

I know there was more but that whole period is kinda hazy.  I just remember being pissed by how thoroughly Ric got trashed in the aftermath of the ONS

[HeatLifer]

53 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I feel like this has always been Jasam though,

OGJaSam were not like "lalalala hi honey we have no arguments or passion or angst" ever.

[Oracle42]

That's true. Even though most of their story arc angst was external, they had disagreements even when they were together.  And I don't think the terrible writing for them is purely a matter of not caring about Jason/Sam, because I think Jelly are making a genuine effort with Lulu/Dante, Liz/MurderHobo, Kiki/Dillon and Finn/Rebecca Budig character - and all of them are terrible. I don't think they're capable of good three-dimensional character writing,

Edited January 7, 2017 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

5 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

OGJaSam were not like "lalalala hi honey we have no arguments or passion or angst" ever.

I feel like they were. Except they'd add on "hope you didn't get too much blood on your clothes, dear!"

[HeatLifer]

Just now, ulkis said:

I feel like they were. Except they'd add on "hope you didn't get too much blood on your clothes, dear!"

Really? You might need to link me to some clips because I don't remember that at all.

[Oracle42]

after they reunited in 2009, they were pretty zen - at least up until the Franco/honeymoon period. I think when they first got together they had issues regarding having children and Jason's multiple brain surgeries and of course, teh danger after Sam got shot in the babymaker

Edited January 6, 2017 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

2 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Really? You might need to link me to some clips because I don't remember that at all.

I was going to ask the same of you. :p Any fight they had outside of the time period I mentioned mid 2006-Jan 2009. Which is a long time, granted, but not when you take in how long they've been a couple. They started having fights after Ron came in, but that was Ron destroying them for McBain. I mean, Jason went to prison for Michael and Sam was just like, you do what you gotta do hon, sure go to prison and leave me. Unless they had a fight about it and I don't remember it. And I don't count fights like, "get your head fixed Jason why are you willing to die you strong beautiful stalwart man!"

3 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

after they reunited in 2009, they were pretty zen - at least up until the Franco/honeymoon period. I think when they first got together they had issues regarding having children and Jason's multiple brain surgeries and of course, teh danger after Sam got shot in the babymaker

Even after Franco - it wasn't till Ron came along and Sam met McBain that Jason started having doubts about the baby. Which I actually thought made him sympathetic and made him seem more human than he had in a long time, but that was definitely not what most people thought.

And pre-Sam/Ric most of their conflict was Sam losing the baby, then losing her adoptive baby. I don't remember them fighting about stuff unless it was Sam crying about why was Jason such a self-sacrificing noble hero.

[ulkis]

ETA: I should add, I think the tone of OG Jason and Sam seemed darker, because the show was overall darker and OG Jason was stoic faced and didn't grin and say "hey buddy" and all that stuff. And of course, he was a hitman. But with each other? There weren't many personality conflicts. Their whole thing was how Sam accepted Jason for who he was.

[HeatLifer]

13 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I was going to ask the same of you. :p

Lmao, once I get lost in YT, I'll forget my original mission and start watching JnR again or something. 

[ulkis]

Just now, HeatLifer said:

Lmao, once I get lost in YT, I'll forget my original mission and start watching JnR again or something. 

That's good too! I like those clips. I'll try to look myself.

[ulkis]

I guess early Jasam were pretty antagonistic, before they actually fell in love:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=439uMPM9uNc

Neeverrrmind, that clip they're all self-righteous against Jax. bleh.

Edited January 6, 2017 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

21 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I guess early Jasam were pretty antagonistic, before they actually fell in love:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=439uMPM9uNc

Neeverrrmind, that clip they're all self-righteous against Jax. bleh.

JAY-SIIIIIN.

[ulkis]

11 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

JAY-SIIIIIN.

Jason is acting like a super dick there, but it's from 2007 and there's probably still tension between them. Also, Sam does not seem mad at all that Jason is acting like a super dick. She's just like, there there, I know Soily is making you angry.

And it's true.  Can we really blame Jason for that.

[HeatLifer]

5 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Jason is acting like a super dick there, but it's from 2007 and there's probably still tension between them. Also, Sam does not seem mad at all that Jason is acting like a super dick. She's just like, there there, I know Soily is making you angry.

And it's true.  Can we really blame Jason for that.

At least they used to hilariously yell at each other. Now I'm just bored.

[ulkis]

2 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

At least they used to hilariously yell at each other. Now I'm just bored.

I like how he kicks the chair and she's just like "I love you."

oh God:

ETA: omg! they're both in towels and then creepster Michael comes along to their rescue! WTF

Edited January 7, 2017 by ulkis

[UYI]

6 minutes ago, ulkis said:

 

Jason is acting like a super dick there, but it's from 2007 and there's probably still tension between them. Also, Sam does not seem mad at all that Jason is acting like a super dick. She's just like, there there, I know Soily is making you angry.

And it's true.  Can we really blame Jason for that.

Soily was in 2006, though.

Sorry I've been MIA for so long. PTV's formatting issues these last few months have fucked with me hard, and I'm still having issues typing and searching threads like the GH news thread. I was afraid you guys had forgotten me, lol. Everything moves way too slow for me now.

[ulkis]

4 minutes ago, UYI said:

Soily was in 2006, though.

Sorry I've been MIA for so long. PTV's formatting issues these last few months have fucked with me hard, and I'm still having issues typing and searching threads like the GH news thread. I was afraid you guys had forgotten me, lol. Everything moves way too slow for me now.

Oh, you're right, the clip is from April 2006. 

[HeatLifer]

15 minutes ago, ulkis said:

ETA: omg! they're both in towels and then creepster Michael comes along to their rescue! WTF

I love how she's all omg turned on and he just stands there.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

Even after Franco - it wasn't till Ron came along and Sam met McBain that Jason started having doubts about the baby. Which I actually thought made him sympathetic and made him seem more human than he had in a long time, but that was definitely not what most people thought.

I think they were trying to make Jason sympathetic, but he was written as such an utter douche. The focus was entirely on how terrible the situation was for Jason. Never mind that his wife was maybe-raped by a SERIAL KILLER obsessed with her husband. It was all about the blow to the great Jason Morgan ego. Ugh.

[Oracle42]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

Even after Franco - it wasn't till Ron came along and Sam met McBain that Jason started having doubts about the baby. Which I actually thought made him sympathetic and made him seem more human than he had in a long time, but that was definitely not what most people thought.

I think it could have if it had taken more than one conversation with Sonny to get him there or if there had been any indication that he was displacing guilt and rage onto the baby - but it was the sincere, sudden 'Nope, it's an EVUL baby born of EVUL' that didn't work for me

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

And I don't count fights like, "get your head fixed Jason why are you willing to die you strong beautiful stalwart man!"

LOL. That was one of the only "fights" I could think of - but I do think it was a legit relationship/personality issue because it was about what they both wanted from life and each other and how they dealt with a life/death situation

Edited January 7, 2017 by Oracle42

[peachmangosteen]

15 hours ago, ulkis said:

I should add, I think the tone of OG Jason and Sam seemed darker, because the show was overall darker and OG Jason was stoic faced and didn't grin and say "hey buddy" and all that stuff. And of course, he was a hitman. 

I think this is it. Like they're basically the same, but BM comes off like such a dolt most of the time and KeMo/the writing doesn't give Sam any edge whatsoever anymore so they come off like a Stepford couple, which is definitely not how they used to come off.

[HeatLifer]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think this is it. Like they're basically the same, but BM comes off like such a dolt most of the time and KeMo/the writing doesn't give Sam any edge whatsoever anymore so they come off like a Stepford couple, which is definitely not how they used to come off.

They are so utterly boring to watch, I can't say that enough. Like, it needs to be said repeatedly. When Kiki and Dillon are more engaging, there's a problem.

[LeftPhalange]

18 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

They are so utterly boring to watch, I can't say that enough. Like, it needs to be said repeatedly. When Kiki and Dillon are more engaging, there's a problem.

omg

[HeatLifer]

20 minutes ago, LeftPhalange said:

omg

It needed to be said for dramatic effect.

[LeftPhalange]

6 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

It needed to be said for dramatic effect.

Just as long as you don't mean it. Sam and Jason are struggling right now, but Dillon and that girl make my computer go into sleep mode.

[jsbt]

Kiki and Private Splenda are not going to get me to watch this show again.

[HeatLifer]

3 hours ago, LeftPhalange said:

Just as long as you don't mean it. Sam and Jason are struggling right now, but Dillon and that girl make my computer go into sleep mode.

I'm really not trying to sound like a hater. I actually want it to be BETTER or I wouldn't even say anything. JaSam should be gray characters who walk the line between good/bad. Not Mr. and Mrs. Brady who volunteer at homeless shelters on Sundays. That is not them. It never was.

[peachmangosteen]

18 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

JaSam should be gray characters who walk the line between good/bad. Not Mr. and Mrs. Brady who volunteer at homeless shelters on Sundays. That is not them. It never was.

I just wanna know if their die hard fans are into this. I feel like there's possibly a chance Jelly think this is what fans would want to see. And hell maybe their fans do wanna see them be more domesticated and less gray, but as usual Jelly/FV went about it in the laziest and most boring way possible so I would assume even if their fans were clamoring for this they're still disappointed. But I don't know maybe they like it. I mean there are Liz fans who like Liz/Franco so anything is possible!

[LeftPhalange]

7 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just wanna know if their die hard fans are into this. I feel like there's possibly a chance Jelly think this is what fans would want to see. And hell maybe their fans do wanna see them be more domesticated and less gray, but as usual Jelly/FV went about it in the laziest and most boring way possible so I would assume even if their fans were clamoring for this they're still disappointed. But I don't know maybe they like it. I mean there are Liz fans who like Liz/Franco so anything is possible!

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not happy with anything Sam and Jason are doing, and I haven't been happy since Jason came back. There have been some select moments, but overall I think they've been given crap. 

I don't care about Sonny but I think it would be out of character for him to sit back and watch his friend be accused of getting his son killed if he isn't responsible, so fine, I'm not again Jason and even Sam trying to clear his name. This shouldn't be their main story, though.

• Why are they not allowed to spend time with Danny?
• Why are they not allowed to talk about being worried something might go wrong during her pregnancy given her history?
• Jason was a mobster for 20 years and for the entire time Sam's known him, now he's not. We should see them adjusting to this new life.
• If Sam is going to be involved in Alexis' drinking story (which she should) why isn't she doing anything other than asking stupid questions and acting oblivious?
• Why is Sam not expressing disappointment with finally finding her bio father only for him to turn out to be a scumbag who tried to kill her mother?
• Where are Molly and Kristina? Where is Lucas?
• Why isn't Jason having scenes with Michael and Carly (that aren't about Sonny)? I can't even remember a single scene he had with BC's Morgan before he died and I don't know if he's said five words to SORASed Joss.
• I never expected Jason to disown Sonny for murdering the brother he had no use for but it's still something that needs to be addressed.
• I guess Jason is a PI now? That makes sense but it would've been nice if he had talked about career prospects with someone.
• Why aren't Sam and Jason plotting Freako's murder?
• It would be nice if people acknowledged that Jason is a completely different person now instead of pretending like that's not a thing. 

[dubbel zout]

So what you're saying is you want nuance in stories?

[LeftPhalange]

Yes, which is a lot to ask for, I know. 

[dubbel zout]

You cockeyed optimist!

[HeatLifer]

On 1/7/2017 at 2:36 PM, peachmangosteen said:

And hell maybe their fans do wanna see them be more domesticated and less gray, but as usual Jelly/FV went about it in the laziest and most boring way possible 

I just cannot stand the way they communicate. Everything is basically "yes, honey." 

[Oracle42]

I don't think I've seen a message board wishing for "domesticated" Jason & Sam, but maybe there's a huge contingent of Varni's 'real fans' who were clamoring for this

[dubbel zout]

They can have a family life without putting us to sleep. If the writing were better, that is. We're stuck with this snoozefest. 

[stlbf]

11 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

They can have a family life without putting us to sleep. If the writing were better, that is. We're stuck with this snoozefest. 

Why not have them hit a the big bump of Sonny and the Gummy Mob? Have one go with a no contact with Sonny way of life. And one be perfectly fine with a Friend of Sonny life. Really want to make it fun? Allow Jason to be the anti Sonny one. Have him be the one to say that being near Sonny will get people hurt. Including kids. And have Sam be the one with rose colored glasses. Have her underplay the danger. That can be a realistic argument between the two. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, stlbf said:

Why not have them hit a the big bump of Sonny and the Gummy Mob? Have one go with a no contact with Sonny way of life. And one be perfectly fine with a Friend of Sonny life. Really want to make it fun? Allow Jason to be the anti Sonny one. Have him be the one to say that being near Sonny will get people hurt. Including kids. And have Sam be the one with rose colored glasses. Have her underplay the danger. That can be a realistic argument between the two. 

But isn't this just another variation used with Liz and the whole "Danger!" bit? It got old then. It's no fresher with a different female.

[Oracle42]

I could maaaaaybe see Sam doing that before Danny was born and Jason died - and even then she had very little use for Sonny/Carly. After she lost Danny because Jason sent goons to beat up McBain and Jason "died" running an errand for Sonny? I don't believe either of them would insist on closeness to Sonny and if one of them did insist on it, it would probably still be Jason