GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Lobsel Vith]

4 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

Thank you Lobsel Vith.  Did this all happen after Sonny shot Carly in the head while she was giving birth to Morgan?  I remember that was a time in my life that I was working 60 hours a week on 3 different shifts.  I barely had a sleep schedule never mind a soap watching schedule.   

 

You're welcome. Yes, it happened afterward. Sonny tried to have sole custody of the children because of Carly's attraction to Lorenzo (he misinterpreted a kiss goodbye between them, and he slept with Sam afterwards), and he had Carly arrested when she was holding baby Morgan at one point.

[movingtargetgal]

So basically Sonny shoots Carly in the head while she is giving birth and she has a brain injury that causes a personality change because of it.  The shooter takes it personally and makes it all about him and sets out to punish his victim/wife for having been shot in the head while she was giving birth!  That Sonny, he truly is a good man.....barf. 

[Ambrosefolly]

42 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

 

You're welcome. Yes, it happened afterward. Sonny tried to have sole custody of the children because of Carly's attraction to Lorenzo (he misinterpreted a kiss goodbye between them, and he slept with Sam afterwards), and he had Carly arrested when she was holding baby Morgan at one point.

Arrested by her cousin Lucky because he was on patrol. Of course when Carly was arrested for causing the accident that caused Liz to miscarry the baby that she was carrying for Courtney and Jax, he waved the family the whole "She you fah-ma-leey!" in Lucky's face, despite Lucky being as gentle and kind as possible when he took Carly in. 

[ulkis]

Can anyone remember the last time a couple planned a wedding date months in advance and it actually went through?

[HeatLifer]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

Can anyone remember the last time a couple planned a wedding date months in advance and it actually went through?

Brenda and Sonny?

Also, I MISS SCRUBS and their fights and no couple fights like they did and I miss it. Take YouTube away from me, pls.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

Can anyone remember the last time a couple planned a wedding date months in advance and it actually went through?

To be fair, since @HeatLifer brought them up, I do think Scrubs' first wedding would have happened if, you know, Robin's water didn't break! (Although I got a kick out of, "Is there a doctor in the house?" with a quarter of the guests standing up! [Which wouldn't/couldn't happen now!] And pregnancy aside, I loved Robin's hair, makeup, and gown from wedding #1 more than wedding #2!)

[HeatLifer]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

To be fair, since @HeatLifer brought them up, I do think Scrubs' first wedding would have happened if, you know, Robin's water didn't break! (Although I got a kick out of, "Is there a doctor in the house?" with a quarter of the guests standing up! [Which wouldn't/couldn't happen now!] And pregnancy aside, I loved Robin's hair, makeup, and gown from wedding #1 more than wedding #2!)

Yeah, I'd count Scrubs, too. A planned wedding that happened.

I love all their weddings. <3

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Yeah, I'd count Scrubs, too. A planned wedding that happened.

I love all their weddings. <3

Oh, don't get me wrong, I liked all their weddings, too. (They were the last GH couple I LOVED!), but the first wedding was my favorite.

[HeatLifer]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Oh, don't get me wrong, I liked all their weddings, too. (They were the last GH couple I LOVED!), but the first wedding was my favorite.

Yeah, it was lovely. And everything leading up to it, including the 32 proposals between them. 

[dubbel zout]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

(Although I got a kick out of, "Is there a doctor in the house?" with a quarter of the guests standing up! [Which wouldn't/couldn't happen now!]

I know. That was when the humor was intentional and more than three people could be in a scene. Sigh. I miss those days.

[ulkis]

random wondering: During the Morgan and Kiki drug Michael stuff, does anyone think that Ron was gonna make Michael an alcoholic, kinda, but then saw the nasty reaction and backed off? Or it was only supposed to be temporary so the other characters wouldn't wonder why Michael was acting all woozy.

[Oracle42]

I don't remember RC backing away from anything just because it was a terrible idea that angered and drove away fans.  

[ulkis]

56 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

I don't remember RC backing away from anything just because it was a terrible idea that angered and drove away fans.  

oh, he did it for a couple of things, apparently. Like with Lulu/Milo.

[Lobsel Vith]

3 hours ago, ulkis said:

random wondering: During the Morgan and Kiki drug Michael stuff, does anyone think that Ron was gonna make Michael an alcoholic, kinda, but then saw the nasty reaction and backed off? Or it was only supposed to be temporary so the other characters wouldn't wonder why Michael was acting all woozy.

 

I originally thought they would make Michael an alcoholic, too, but I think it was simply for clumsy plot purposes, like Dante's out of nowhere allergy to latex to push the baby plot forward.

[jsbt]

3 hours ago, ulkis said:

random wondering: During the Morgan and Kiki drug Michael stuff, does anyone think that Ron was gonna make Michael an alcoholic, kinda, but then saw the nasty reaction and backed off? Or it was only supposed to be temporary so the other characters wouldn't wonder why Michael was acting all woozy.

I suspected he wanted it both ways at the time.

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

I don't remember RC backing away from anything just because it was a terrible idea that angered and drove away fans.  

If any, Ron doubled down on stuff the fans hated.

14 hours ago, ulkis said:

oh, he did it for a couple of things, apparently. Like with Lulu/Milo.

His job was probably threatened. I know he was desperately trying to make Drew Cheetwood happen, and thank Jasus someone put the kibosh on that.

[HeatLifer]

Robin: I appreciate your input.

Patrick: No, actually, I don't think that you do.

Robin: You know what? You're right. I don't.

LMAO. I miss them so much. 

[dubbel zout]

They had some really good writing, and it didn't hurt that KMcC and JT clearly enjoyed working together.

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

They had some really good writing, and it didn't hurt that KMcC and JT clearly enjoyed working together.

They had such a fun, energetic vibe. I miss couples on this show who had a kind of love/hate, banter back-and-forth. 

[cmahorror]

What I loved about Patrick and Robin is that they eventually brought out the best in each other without changing who they were at their cores. Patrick will always be a cocky neurosurgeon but Robin taught him compassion and to think beyond how things effected him. Robin will always be a control freak with abandonment issues but Patrick taught her to let loose a little bit and trust in someone other than herself and Mac. Neither one was perfect but they loved each other as much for their faults as for their positive attributes.

A huge difference I see between how they treated Scrubs versus how they treat other couples now is obvious in the cheating storylines. As stupid the cheating story was, Patrick felt genuine remorse at cheating on Robin with Lisa. He acted like a little boy at first, trying to hide what had happened until he realized he couldn't live that way and confessed all to Robin (still an amazing scene). Robin was devastated and not afraid to let him know exactly how horrible what he had done was. Patrick didn't get a free pass, he had to work to get her back and spent months groveling and begging her for a second chance while trying to trap Lisa in her lies and manipulations. Even after she took him back, they went to couples counseling to work on their marriage and create a stronger family.

Compare that with Sonny and Dante who acted like it was no big deal that they broke the women they loved hearts. Neither one of them seemed particularly worried about the fallout of their affairs or if they would get their loved one back. Even after Dante reunited with Lulu there was no discussion of counseling or dealing with the issues that lead to his cheating on her.

[dubbel zout]

46 minutes ago, cmahorror said:

Even after Dante reunited with Lulu there was no discussion of counseling or dealing with the issues that lead to his cheating on her.

There was; they went to a few counseling sessions offcamera, and we saw them do some exercises in that stupid park they used to use as a location.

[cmahorror]

Thank you dubbel zout, I must have missed the discussions. Quite frankly, I was so disgusted by the show at the point that I have blocked out entire episodes. 

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, cmahorror said:

What I loved about Patrick and Robin is that they eventually brought out the best in each other without changing who they were at their cores.

Truth. And they challenged each other. They called out the other on their BS. I didn't realize how important that was until the last few years of GH. Nearly all the couples on Frank's GH are legit coddlers. 

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, cmahorror said:

Compare that with Sonny and Dante who acted like it was no big deal that they broke the women they loved hearts. 

In regards to Sonny, are you talking about when he cheated on Olivia with Ava? If so, I kinda don't blame the show for not playing it like Sonny felt THAT guilty about it. Sonny was never that into Olivia, he was just with her until someone else came along.

[Ambrosefolly]

Quote

He wasn't the heavy to Liason.  He was the foil to Jason, just like AJ was before him with Jourtney.  Elizabeth didn't matter either because she lied to the stupid Spencer idiot during that time as well.  Not a good look on her.  And she got tossed into a meat grinder right away again (after Jason off-loaded her), by sleeping with Dik.  

Post-Guza, Jason no longer had any foils: he only had men who were "less." Look at what they did to Tony Jones. Before they decided to move Liz to Jason and start Liason in earnest, Lucky was a pretty okay, decent guy (forget about Sarah post-Yelly, but I think there was also a pseudo triangle with Jason and Liz as well). The worst about him is that he let his affection for his family get the better of him when he was a cop, but nothing extreme. He then gets addicted to drugs (with no one ever mentioning that it was from one of Jason's enemies that he got the injuries that got him hooked on painkillers in the first place), slept with Maxie (as she got the drugs he wanted and blackmailed him) and deeper in the rabbit hole, he tried to frame Jasus for a crime. As for Journey, for fuck's sakes, they had AJ stalk his own wife so Courtney could move onto Jason guilt free, because AJ was so damn jealous (as she already started a physical affair with him when she kissed him in the rain before she found out about AJ).

I am also well aware that Lucky being thrown under the bus had nothing to do with Liz and everything to do with Jason. I bet that Guza and Co. were a bit perturbed that Sam and Lucky were actually liked by the audience, because no one is allowed to love anyone more than Jason. 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[HeatLifer]

Can't deal with real-time GH or real-life right now, so back to '90s! 

Jason went to the mall to buy a book on how to build houses bc he wanted to build one for Robin one day. And Emily wanted to help if he did. Aw. This show used to do a really good job with the little things. Not every scene or interaction had to serve a specific plot. It was just there to build a bond or relationship.

[ulkis]

Go to the news thread for sec though!

[Lobsel Vith]

@ Ambrosefolly,

You didn't provide a rebuttal that Diego was 'pushed' by TIIC. The strength of Diego's acting doesn't change the content of the scenes themselves; he was written to be 'weak' in scenes with Sonny and Jason, which is very, very different than how Ethan was written in scenes with Jason and Sonny.

Ethan was constantly pushed as the 'charismatic' guy and got to flirt with Lulu, Maya, and other women. You can't compare that to Diego and say it was simply because the actor because he was written as the guy who was repeatedly screwing things up and being looked down on for it. That's not propping.

As for the Kristina turned Ethan storyline, one apology from Ethan doesn't negate that the storyline focused on him. Sonny wanted to kill him, so he had the sympathy of fans for being a victim. Some wrongfully blamed him because of Kristina's lie. Luke wanted to protect him. I don't see how you're seriously claiming that Kristina wasn't sidelined for Ethan when the storyline became more about him than her. It was even brought up long after the storyline ended to elicit how much of a 'victim' Ethan still is because some people still think he was the perpetrator.

Bringing up that the show also focused on Sonny, too, doesn't dismiss that it also became a way to make fans sympathetic to Ethan.

[ulkis]

Man, how long was Diego on the show? I barely remember anything about him.

[Lobsel Vith]

16 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Man, how long was Diego on the show? I barely remember anything about him.

 

Diego didn't really do anything memorable, so that's completely understandable. Pre-TK Killer, he was on GH from 2004 to 2006, but there were months that Ignacio Serricchio wasn't on-screen (he vanished during Lulu's pregnancy).

[Ambrosefolly]

6 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

@ Ambrosefolly,

You didn't provide a rebuttal that Diego was 'pushed' by TIIC. The strength of Diego's acting doesn't change the content of the scenes themselves; he was written to be 'weak' in scenes with Sonny and Jason, which is very, very different than how Ethan was written in scenes with Jason and Sonny.

Ethan was constantly pushed as the 'charismatic' guy and got to flirt with Lulu, Maya, and other women. You can't compare that to Diego and say it was simply because the actor because he was written as the guy who was repeatedly screwing things up and being looked down on for it. That's not propping.

As for the Kristina turned Ethan storyline, one apology from Ethan doesn't negate that the storyline focused on him. Sonny wanted to kill him, so he had the sympathy of fans for being a victim. Some wrongfully blamed him because of Kristina's lie. Luke wanted to protect him. I don't see how you're seriously claiming that Kristina wasn't sidelined for Ethan when the storyline became more about him than her. It was even brought up long after the storyline ended to elicit how much of a 'victim' Ethan still is because some people still think he was the perpetrator.

Bringing up that the show also focused on Sonny, too, doesn't dismiss that it also became a way to make fans sympathetic to Ethan.

I absolutely did, as he did snake the position of a character that by all rights should have had a stronger presence on the show, gay or straight. Now did it last, absolutely not, but there was push probably in the first few months of Diego time on the show. I watched the show too. The reason it didn't last was because Ted King, who played his dad, was a favored actor and it didn't help him he had better chem with all the ladies on screen than both Steve Burton and Maurice Bernard, and the actor wasn't clicking with the canvas, which is what Brandon Barash's character did. 

Nor do I dispute Ethan was shoved down the audience throat , I just dispute that Kristina was sideline in favor of Ethan, when I felt she, and the rest of the coven, were sidelined in favor of Sonny swallowing the storyline whole. The only reason Ethan was as involved as he was, was because the chem the Lexi Ainsworth and Nathan Parson had and the show was teasing them as a potential pairing.  

Again, you are insinuating I didn't thoughtfully come to my own conclusions regarding the abuse storyline  with your "I don't see how you're seriously claiming..." line, since I too watched the show and do think I adequately proved both of my points of at least why I came to those conclusions. If you felt the something different, then you felt something different, but in the future don't talk down to me like I am stupid and missed something important, because he hadn't given me any new information to sway my opinion. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[Oracle42]

I don't think Kristina was sidelined. I think Guza did one of the things he was good at - taking an event and creating a story that affected multiple characters and families and spinning it out into other stories. That's soap, good soap. I actually thought that story and a lot of the things that followed from it were done really well.

Jelly are completely shit at that sort of thing, and I think RC tried but he was terrible at story structure and follow-through.

I will always hate the way TG fucked up Ethan's parentage but the way that he was worked into the abuse story made sense to me

Edited November 11, 2016 by Oracle42

[Lobsel Vith]

1 hour ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I absolutely did, as he did snake the position of a character that by all rights should have had a stronger presence on the show, gay or straight. Now did it last, absolutely not, but there was push probably in the first few months of Diego time on the show. I watched the show too. The reason it didn't last was because Ted King, who played his dad, was a favored actor and it didn't help him he had better chem with all the ladies on screen than both Steve Burton and Maurice Bernard, and the actor wasn't clicking with the canvas, which is what Brandon Barash's character did. 

Nor do I dispute Ethan was shoved down the audience throat , I just dispute that Kristina was sideline in favor of Ethan, when I felt she, and the rest of the coven, were sidelined in favor of Sonny swallowing the storyline whole. The only reason Ethan was as involved as he was, was because the chem the Lexi Ainsworth and Nathan Parson had and the show was teasing them as a potential pairing.  

Again, you are insinuating I didn't thoughtfully come to my own conclusions regarding the abuse storyline  with your "I don't see how you're seriously claiming..." line, since I too watched the show and do think I adequately proved both of my points of at least why I came to those conclusions. If you felt the something different, then you felt something different, but in the future don't talk down to me like I am stupid and missed something important, because he hadn't given me any new information to sway my opinion. 

 

Lucas barely had a presence on the show before Diego. Blaming him as if Lucas would have gotten more screentime when that didn't happen long before Diego showed up doesn't fly with me. Had Diego never shown up, I don't see why anyone thinks Lucas would have gotten more screentime - there's a reason why there were rumors that TIIC were considering changing Brook Lynn's paternity to pair her with Dillion at the time.

What we saw of Diego early on was that he was a screwup, and people didn't take him seriously. Sonny chastised him when he was hanging out with Lucas, Brook Lynn talked down to him, Georgie distrusted him, Jason intimidated him - that's not someone who is being pushed.

I see how the writers handled Johnny Z, how they handled Ethan - even how they're handling Franco now, and there's a chasm wide difference.

Diego had screentime in his first few months, but he simply wasn't pushed. We see characters being 'pushed' in how they're written - Ethan was pushed in his first few months. Dante was pushed, and was eating the canvas. How characters like that were written simply isn't applicable for Diego.

Now I certainly agree that Diego being Lorenzo's son was part of the issue, but that's all the more reason Guza had no intention of pushing him. Lorenzo was being hampered long before Diego showed up (the "leather jacket" incident and all that nonsense).

As for Sonny, I don't dispute that Sonny got quite a lot of screentime as well at the expense of Kristina (it's why I mentioned Sonny v. Luke in the other thread), but I do think Ethan was the primary reason for this storyline shift - he's the victim, he's the one who suffered throughout the latter part of the story, and Sonny even had to apologize to Ethan and Luke over his behavior.

If it was about Ethan/Kristina (Ethina), it could have been handled a hundred different ways that didn't sacrifice Kristina in favor of Ethan. That it specifically harmed Kristina's character in order to prop Ethan is why I say he was sacrificed in favor of her.

[Lobsel Vith]

43 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

I don't think Kristina was sidelined. I think Guza did one of the things he was good at - taking an event and creating a story that affected multiple characters and families and spinning it out into other stories. That's soap, good soap. I actually thought that story and a lot of the things that followed from it were done really well.

Jelly are completely shit at that sort of thing, and I think RC tried but he was terrible at story structure and follow-through.

I will always hate the way TG fucked up Ethan's parentage but the way that he was worked into the abuse story made sense to me

 

Simply put, an abuse victim should never, ever have become the villain in her own abuse storyline. To make it about Ethan, and Ethan's suffering, rather than about Kristina (the abuse victim), is one of the reasons why I think Guza was an atrocious writer (along with his Jason obsession).

I wish more people gave him crap over that storyline. It was downright disgusting. Ethan could have helped Kristina in so many different ways that didn't make him the victim and her the villain.

Also, I share your sentiment about Ethan's paternity. TG really screwed up quite a lot with that recton, and I wish GW or RC fixed it while TG was on one of his infamous vacations. It really impacted so many characters negatively.

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

I will always hate the way TG fucked up Ethan's parentage but the way that he was worked into the abuse story made sense to me

Definitely. Kristina was absolutely awful to involve Ethan in the abuse story, but her twisted thinking had an unfortunate logic to it. It's too bad she isn't now remembering the consequences of Sonny's hair-trigger temper. I'm okay with her not being outwardly hostile toward Sonny on the day of Morgan's funeral, but her unwavering support is ridiculous.

9 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

It was downright disgusting. Ethan could have helped Kristina in so many different ways that didn't make him the victim and her the villain.

This was a road Guza should never have gone down. But his stories were the definition of the male gaze.

[Melgaypet]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Definitely. Kristina was absolutely awful to involve Ethan in the abuse story, but her twisted thinking had an unfortunate logic to it.

I always thought it was a mistake to have Kristina deliberately lie about Ethan being her abuser. If she had been incoherently mumbling Ethan's name in the hospital (as he was the one who found her beaten so badly) and Sonny jumped to conclusions (I know, how unlike him) and then she became lucid and was terrified to tell the truth, hoping Ethan was safe from Sonny because of his connection to Luke...well. It still would have been pretty gross, probably, but it would've slightly mitigated the whole "abuse victim becomes the villain of the piece" nastiness.

[Oracle42]

I honestly didn't mind it. The conscious decision to lie showed that she understood exactly how trapped she was - that seeking help would get Kiefer killed, that her father would respect Luke's demands more than he would respect her request, and that Kiefer's family could hurt her and her family in ways that Luke wouldn't.  It wasn't just a very special episode about battering, it was a story about a specific character and it took into account all of her relationships and history.

I disagree that  she was ever "the villain of the piece", I think she was shown as both a victim of Kiefer's abuse and of Sonny's lifestyle and (lack of) character. And from what I remember, nobody blamed her for lying (except the audience) because they understood that she'd done the best she could as a child placed in an untenable situation
 

And i really appreciated that it didn't just get dropped. I loved the conversations that she and other people had afterward about the ways that Sonny was abusive. I liked the relationship she built with Johnny after their talk about Claudia/Sonny and I thought MB did some good work (and LW was fantastic) when they talked about his behavior and when he realized why Kristina had protected Kiefer.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

There was something I liked about the story - after having Luke and Ethan's super-special son bond ground into our faces, when Ethan was accused I enjoyed Lulu and Lucky being all, "well . . . we don't actually know you that well . . . " Of course that leads me to the other thing I really hated about that story, Luke declaring that a man knows his children to the bone, at least his sons, because daughters are women and there will always be a part of women that are a ~~mystery~~. That sounded like a Tony Geary dumb ass ad lib though.

[Ambrosefolly]

15 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

 

Lucas barely had a presence on the show before Diego. Blaming him as if Lucas would have gotten more screentime when that didn't happen long before Diego showed up doesn't fly with me. Had Diego never shown up, I don't see why anyone thinks Lucas would have gotten more screentime - there's a reason why there were rumors that TIIC were considering changing Brook Lynn's paternity to pair her with Dillion at the time.

They were both on the show at the same time, and I bet the powers tha be t were curtailing RC's screen time because Lucas wasn't "gangster"enough. However, Diego did receive ample screen time and was being paired the ingenue that was BrookLynn. That is being somewhat pushed.

Again, I am not disputing Ethan being heavily pushed he was TG's pet and the character was a big old FU to two super couples, Guza was going to make us love him come hell or high water, I am just saying Ethan wasn't the one that sidelined Kristina, it was Sonny.  

Edited November 11, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[Oracle42]

41 minutes ago, ulkis said:

There was something I liked about the story - after having Luke and Ethan's super-special son bond ground into our faces, when Ethan was accused I enjoyed Lulu and Lucky being all, "well . . . we don't actually know you that well . . . " Of course that leads me to the other thing I really hated about that story, Luke declaring that a man knows his children to the bone, at least his sons, because daughters are women and there will always be a part of women that are a ~~mystery~~. That sounded like a Tony Geary dumb ass ad lib though.

Yeah, that story did not make me hate Ethan/Luke any less. AND if Ethan had been Robert's son? It would have pulled in the Scorpios and added a whole 'nother layer to Luke's determination to protect this kid - because he would have done it for Robert anyway, but without being able to claim that he "knew" Ethan was innocent.

Literally every Ethan story is better without Luke's gross paternity retcon

Edited November 11, 2016 by Oracle42

[Oracle42]

2 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Again, I am not disputing Ethan being heavily pushed he was TG's pet and the character was a big old FU to two super couples, Guza was going to make us love him come hell or high water, I am just saying Ethan wasn't the one that sidelined Kristina, it was Sonny.  

I don't believe for a second that Guza intended for Ethan to be Luke's son. Mob follies aside*, Guza was good at writing relationships. There was better story with Ethan as Robert's son, he started out flirting with Lulu and he had an Australian accent

 

Yes, I realize that's a huge, huge issue to push aside.

[dubbel zout]

20 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Luke declaring that a man knows his children to the bone, at least his sons

They bring bourbon to their mouth the same way. How much more proof of kinship do you need? 

(Admittedly, that was an amusing shot, but to use it as proof that they were related was as ridiculous as Sonny crowing that Dante liking pasta as much as Sonny did meant they were related, too.)

6 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

There was better story with Ethan as Robert's son

I hate that Ethan is Luke's son, but I would have hated it more if he were Robert's. And you know that somehow Luke would have become a father figure to Ethan regardless, given how TG slobbered over NP. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Melgaypet]

17 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

I don't believe for a second that Guza intended for Ethan to be Luke's son. Mob follies aside*, Guza was good at writing relationships. There was better story with Ethan as Robert's son, he started out flirting with Lulu and he had an Australian accent

This I agree with. And damn it all, Julie Berman and Nathan Whatsisface had chemistry, too. Dante had just shown up - that had potential to be fun triangle. I wouldn't have minded seeing Robin and Ethan interact.

 

12 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

And you know that somehow Luke would have become a father figure to Ethan regardless, given how TG slobbered over NP. 

Yeah, but I wouldn't have minded that. In theory. Of course, in my head, Robert would also have been around and not written terribly and would have been a mentor/father-figure type to Lucky and we could see those dynamics play out. But, you know, we got what we got.

Ethan being Robert's made sense and didn't shit all over history. Also, it probably would have stopped him from pontificating smugly about things he knew exactly nothing about - like Luke and Laura's marriage and Lucky and Elizabeth's history - which was what I hated most about him. (Well, that and Rebecca.) If he tried similar nonsense with Robert, I bet he would have shut it down, unlike Luke.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Melgaypet

[Ambrosefolly]

2 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

This I agree with. And damn it all, Julie Berman and Nathan Whatsisface had chemistry, too. Dante had just shown up - that had potential to be fun triangle. I wouldn't have minded seeing Robin and Ethan interact.

 

Yeah, but I wouldn't have minded that. In theory. Of course, in my head, Robert would also have been around and not written terribly and would have been a mentor/father-figure type to Lucky and we could see those dynamics play out. But, you know, we got what we got.

Ethan being Robert's made sense and didn't shit all over history. Also, it probably would have stopped him from pontificating smugly about things he knew exactly nothing about - like Luke and Laura's marriage and Lucky and Elizabeth's history - which was what I hated most about him. (Well, that and Rebecca.) If he tried similar nonsense with Robert, I bet he would have shut it down, unlike Luke.

I don't think he could have tried the same bullshit with Robin as with Lulu/Lucky. 

[Oracle42]

I wish I could like that post twice Melgaypet because you just expressed all my feels.

12 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

And damn it all, Julie Berman and Nathan Whatsisface had chemistry, too. Dante had just shown up - that had potential to be fun triangle.

Yes! I was so excited about the potential there.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Oracle42

[Melgaypet]

Aw! Thanks. Talking about past GH - even to complain - is more appealing than current GH. Or current real life, for that matter.

[Lobsel Vith]

4 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

I disagree that  she was ever "the villain of the piece", I think she was shown as both a victim of Kiefer's abuse and of Sonny's lifestyle and (lack of) character. And from what I remember, nobody blamed her for lying (except the audience) because they understood that she'd done the best she could as a child placed in an untenable situation.

Plenty of people voiced that they viewed her negatively because of that storyline. Their sympathies were with Ethan, not with abuse victim Kristina. People were blaming Kristina months afterwards as well.

3 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Again, I am not disputing Ethan being heavily pushed he was TG's pet and the character was a big old FU to two super couples, Guza was going to make us love him come hell or high water, I am just saying Ethan wasn't the one that sidelined Kristina, it was Sonny.  

Sonny certainly had coverage (I even cited the Sonny v. Luke aspect of the story when I brought this up), but Ethan was the victim of the story - the one fans sympathized with because he was the victim of a lie that lead to him nearly getting killed and beaten up in jail. Even Saint Sonny had to apologize to Ethan over how he treated him (apparently he was supposed to have scenes with Alexis and Sam apologizing as well, but those were cut because only Sonny mattered). It was grotesque.

3 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

They were both on the show at the same time, and I bet the powers tha be t were curtailing RC's screen time because Lucas wasn't "gangster"enough. However, Diego did receive ample screen time and was being paired the ingenue that was BrookLynn. That is being somewhat pushed.

Lucas was onscreen before Diego showed up (when Sage was a character - long before Diego), and his screentime was still minimal at the time. And while Diego did have screentime and was paired with Brook Lynn, that's like saying Stephen Webber was pushed because he had screentime and was paired with Olivia (who was previously with Johnny).

[Ambrosefolly]

5 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Plenty of people voiced that they viewed her negatively because of that storyline. Their sympathies were with Ethan, not with abuse victim Kristina. People were blaming Kristina months afterwards as well.

Sonny certainly had coverage (I even cited the Sonny v. Luke aspect of the story when I brought this up), but Ethan was the victim of the story - the one fans sympathized with because he was the victim of a lie that lead to him nearly getting killed and beaten up in jail. Even Saint Sonny had to apologize to Ethan over how he treated him (apparently he was supposed to have scenes with Alexis and Sam apologizing as well, but those were cut because only Sonny mattered). It was grotesque.

Lucas was onscreen before Diego showed up (when Sage was a character - long before Diego), and his screentime was still minimal at the time. And while Diego did have screentime and was paired with Brook Lynn, that's like saying Stephen Webber was pushed because he had screentime and was paired with Olivia (who was previously with Johnny).

I still don't think the storyline was designed to make Ethan "happen" and even after that, he still came across as a jackass, if TWoP is any indication. The only thing that saved him was his friendship and their mutual hatred of Sonny. And yeah, Sonny should apologize to Ethan, because he pulled a fucking gun on him and would have killed him if he wasn't stopped. And, like Diego for a few months in the teen scene, the show might push Sonny as the top of the heap, but he isn't a saint. That would be Jason. He is presented as an asshole to everyone, but its okay because he doesn't deal in drugs or hookers and has a "code" that violates on a regular basis. 

Also, by the time Olivia was paired with orangeSLW, she her screen time was getting reduced, because the show was now pushing Lisa and her craziness. She was pretty much late stage BrookLynn. When BrookLynn was paired with Diego, it was pretty early in her run; Lois was still on the canvas, not near the end when Lulu gobbled up all of the young actress screen time. Besides, SLW was being played by one of SB's besties, so he would naturally be given a little bit more because of that, not because his character was born on the show.

But hey, at least this rebuttal didn't have you writing things like "I don't see how you're seriously claiming..." or "are you kidding me" basically insinuating I didn't at least attempt a serious argument with scenes from the show, just because you didn't agree with it, so its an improvement

Edited November 12, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[Lobsel Vith]

2 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I still don't think the storyline was designed to make Ethan "happen" and even after that, he still came across as a jackass, if TWoP is any indication. The only thing that saved him was his friendship and their mutual hatred of Sonny. 

I never said it was designed to make Ethan 'happen', I said the writers pushed Ethan at a time when fans hated him because of the Luke/Holly debacle. Even NP noted that fans hated him around this time because of that storyline.

2 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

And yeah, Sonny should apologize to Ethan, because he pulled a fucking gun on him and would have killed him if he wasn't stopped.

And, as I pointed out previously, Sonny was the only one who warranted screentime to apologize to Ethan. Not Alexis or Sam, even though it's said those scenes were actually filmed.

2 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

And, like Diego for a few months in the teen scene, the show might push Sonny as the top of the heap, but he isn't a saint. That would be Jason. He is presented as an asshole to everyone, but its okay because he doesn't deal in drugs or hookers and has a "code" that violates on a regular basis. 

Sonny has certainly been treated as a saint at times. Robin told Robert that Sonny was a better father than he was. Guza wrote it so that Robert didn't live up to the standards set up Sonny "I shot my pregnant wife while she was giving birth" Corinthos.

Cops and rival mobsters have been vilified so that Sonny can look good in comparison. Dante forgave Sonny because everyone but Lulu was singing his praises right after Sonny shot Dante (which is why Dante felt guilty). Luke said he was a 'pillar of the community'. He's been whitewashed; not to the extent of the Holy Hitman, but he's been whitewashed and treated like a hero.

2 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Also, by the time Olivia was paired with orangeSLW, she her screen time was getting reduced, because the show was now pushing Lisa and her craziness. She was pretty much late stage BrookLynn. When BrookLynn was paired with Diego, it was pretty early in her run; Lois was still on the canvas, not near the end when Lulu gobbled up all of the young actress screen time. Besides, SLW was being played by one of SB's besties, so he would naturally be given a little bit more because of that, not because his character was born on the show.

Brook Lynn showed up long before Diego ever hit the canvas - Sage was still alive when Brook Lynn arrived on GH. I don't see how Lucas was marginalized solely because of Diego when Lucas was marginalized long before then. Even the times he did show up, it was usually for other characters, like when Georgie asked Lucas to hit on Dillion when he was dressed as a girl.

[Chairperson Meow]

I don't understand why they haven't written more for Lucas.   He seems like one of the easier characters to mine story from.  He's the biological son of mobster Julian Jerome and Cheryl (I don't remember much about her), was adopted and raised by Bobbie Spencer and Dr. Tony Jones.  His sister BJ died young, donated a heart to Maxie, who's his cousin.  He is related to Mac and Felicia and Frisco.  He is related to Robin and Anna.  He's related by blood to Sam and Danny.  He's related through adoption to Carly, Lulu, Lucky, Aiden, Cam, Laura, Luke, Michael, Morgan, Joss, Sonny (marriage/adoption).  He's a doctor.  He's young and attractive.   There's no reason why they shouldn't be able to cultivate a story for someone with rich ties to the canvas.   His stepmother is currently an alcoholic, he is a doctor.  Maybe he can check on her.  His biological father had psychological issues towards the end of his life.   Lucas could console her.   I just don't get not using established characters with history.