These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

gonzosgirrl · January 17, 2019

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

And I personally hate how they've tried to pin this all on Mary now. Yes, it was her deal that set them on their path, but when watching her make that deal, I never once felt angry with her for her decision. I think most of us would have made the same choice, under those circumstances. The only one to blame for all of this is Yellow Eyes, IMO.

I don't think many, if any, blame her for her decision. It's her choice to then, at best, bury her head in the sand and leave her family unprotected and unaware. And then Dabb doubled down and showed her hunting even after Dean was born. So yeah, IMO, she has a lot to answer for. Things Dean only touched on in Who We Are and for which her half-assed I'm sorry just doesn't cut it.

Myrelle · January 17, 2019

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

We know that John tried to keep Sam isolated from hunting. We know that Sam was in a play, was a mathlete, and played soccor, so he had at least some semblance of a normal life. I think canon supports Sam being the favored son. We know that John was proud of him and checked up on him while he was at school.

Dean he couldn't even bother to return a phone call.

I don't think Sam had a story book child hood by any means, but at least he had both John and Dean, and Zanna looking out for him. Dean really had no one growing up.

As a result of John's so called parenting, Dean grew up with no sense of identity outside of Sam. He had one job, protect Sam at any cost. He grew up believing he didn't matter.

So Mary's deal might have effected Sam more and even I believe Sam needed the confrontation with Mary more than Dean, just like I believe that John's partenting had a more profound effect on Dean. The show, IMO, is giving the wrong parent to the wrong brother.

2 hours ago, devlin said:

I hate how the show ignores just how bad dean’s childhood was. He never got to be a child. Sam was protected, he was always put first by dean. Because of dean, sam was able to develop an identity and had enough self esteem to be able to follow his own needs. Dean’s upbringing has completely damaged him in regards to how he sees himself in relation to those around him, which is why we see him making the decisions he makes.

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yeah I get they want awwww shucks for the 300th and the John and Mary ~~soap opera~~ reunion, but it would be nice for this Dean fan if we got just a little of what Dean said/did about The Life of Sammy in Who We Are. That's never going to happen though, so...

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I know. And yeah, I agree, never happening.

ITA with the bolded sentence and the only way they could ever justify it is if a big part of Sam's interaction with John touches on what he did to Dean(PARENTIFICATION! to the Max), too, but yeah, I read what both JA and JP, said in that interview, too...

1 hour ago, devlin said:

Wow. Watching the ew promo, Jensen talks about both brothers and their dad and how John gets to see both his boys as grown men. Jared talks about only sam getting to see his idol and coach and that he gets to see him making mistakes and that means that sam can forgive himself. WTF, that makes no sense and since when has John been sam’s idol and coach.

and from this, I'd say that Sam's conversation with John will be All About Sam, as will Dean's conversation with John, and as it was with Mary.

6 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I can see the end of this ep ending with John telling Sam how proud he is of him and he'll tell Dean he did a great job of taking care of Sam.

I totally think that this is where they will go once again and even though John already said this to Dean in IMTOD which will make me

2 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

*gag*

Also.

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

As long as Dean's scene is about Dean and actually addresses some of the issues than Sam can have all the closure he wants. I want to see Jensen get his wish of him saying 'how dare you" take my childhood to John.

I would not get my hopes up for this. Not if this article is any real indicator of what's coming.

My only hope for this episode lies in this observation

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

That would be the kind of closure I would expect if Dean still yearned for closure. But since Jensen said for Dean it`s like a dream, he doesn`t want to wake up from, it sounds more like he is just happy. That everything else falls away. Which would make sense initially. You can be mad at someone all you want but if you got them back, happiness would probably overpower that at first. If John stayed longer, I`m sure resentments would creep up but he is obviously only around for a short while.

So whatever they discuss I don`t see them doing it angrily. Jensen is usually a very good judge on how to play a scene. Like wasn`t the scene with Chuck initially supposed to be angry, the one where Dean calls him out? And Jensen played it more with sadness? I can see something like this happen.

There is no one better than Jensen at selling the hell out of shitty and redundant writing, IMO. He's become an expert at it, basically because he's had to on this show.

And he's always had such wonderful chemistry with JDM that I think anything they do together will become the highlight of the episode, interviews be damned, and as it so often was in the past for this fan.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Myrelle

MysteryGuest · January 17, 2019

4 minutes ago, devlin said:

am not bothered by the deal. What annoys me the most about what they have done with Mary was she knew what was out there yet she did absolutely nothing to protect her family. She was apparently willing to go hunting and leave her one year old son at home unprotected with her husband without bothering to tell him what she was doing. Compare that to dean when he was living with Lisa and the precautions he took.

I don't disagree. I hate how they've retconned her character. We saw her one way for 10 years and then they turned her into something completely different. They took what could have been a really cool opportunity to have Sam and Dean get to know their mother, and they went for the one-dimensional action figure rather than a complex woman getting to know her grown sons in a world totally foreign to her. It could have been interesting and emotional and healing for all of them, but they opted not to give us that. I'm not sure I've mentioned this today, but the show's writers kinda suck.

AwesomO4000 · January 17, 2019

16 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I think canon supports Sam being the favored son. We know that John was proud of him and checked up on him while he was at school.

25 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

We know that John tried to keep Sam isolated from hunting.

27 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

As a result of John's so called parenting, Dean grew up with no sense of identity outside of Sam.

Taken to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread to be safe.

55 minutes ago, devlin said:

that makes no sense and since when has John been sam’s idol and coach.

1 hour ago, devlin said:

Dean’s upbringing has completely damaged him in regards to how he sees himself in relation to those around him, which is why we see him making the decisions he makes.

Also taken to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread to be safe.

Myrelle · January 17, 2019

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Dean alone with John? I honestly don`t know. It doesnt sound antagonistic in any way so probably no recriminations. Then what? That`s why that spoiler about it originating with a wish from Dean (and an unconscious one at that - hey, is that gonna be like Amara gave him Mary because she thought she was doing him a favour? you could say it was a "want" of Dean, though never voiced to her in any way) has me stumped. What does he want out of it now?Â

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

That would be the kind of closure I would expect if Dean still yearned for closure. But since Jensen said for Dean it`s like a dream, he doesn`t want to wake up from, it sounds more like he is just happy. That everything else falls away. Which would make sense initially. You can be mad at someone all you want but if you got them back, happiness would probably overpower that at first. If John stayed longer, I`m sure resentments would creep up but he is obviously only around for a short while.Â

So whatever they discuss I don`t see them doing it angrily. Jensen is usually a very good judge on how to play a scene. Like wasn`t the scene with Chuck initially supposed to be angry, the one where Dean calls him out?Â And Jensen played it more with sadness? I can see something like this happen.Â Â

I'm going to return to this because of the bolded part.

Dean has always yearned for the original family unit because he's always been the one who has valued family above everything else, so I CAN see them going here with Dean ESPECIALLY if this version of John shows him more overt love and respect than Original John ever did.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Myrelle

Res · January 17, 2019

15 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

What would be your dream announcement?

Jensen's Leaving the show.

ILoveReading · January 17, 2019

Seeing the extended promo, why is Sam saying, "If I can get into Dean's head maybe I (meaning Sam) can push Michael out).

Since when come someone tell an angel to unpossess someone else.

Either its more lol!canon, more SuperSam or Sam really has no faith in Dean's ability to fight Michael on his own, otherwise why not say 'Encourge Dean to fight"

Or more likley, all three.

catrox14 · January 17, 2019

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

eeing the extended promo, why is Sam saying, "If I can get into Dean's head maybe I (meaning Sam) can push Michael out).

I am going with LOL Canon that now someone else can eject the offending angel specifically to set up that Sam saves Dean. Of course the other question is why can't Cas eject Michael if that is the case? Why are both Cas and Sam going ? Why wouldn't they leave one of them on the outside in case it all goes belly up? Why would the leave Jack by himself in that situation?

Because plot plot plot. Sigh

Aeryn13 · January 17, 2019

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Seeing the extended promo, why is Sam saying, "If I can get into Dean's head maybe I (meaning Sam) can push Michael out).

Since when come someone tell an angel to unpossess someone else.

Either its more lol!canon, more SuperSam or Sam really has no faith in Dean's ability to fight Michael on his own, otherwise why not say 'Encourge Dean to fight"

Or more likley, all three.

He probably plans to yell and expect to be obeyed.

gonzosgirrl · January 17, 2019

7 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

He probably plans to yell and expect to be obeyed.

Ding ding ding!!

Aeryn13 · January 17, 2019

I`ll be disgusted if that in any way happens. In no way, shape or form should Sam be the one to push Michael out. This belongs to Dean.

catrox14 · January 17, 2019

35 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I`ll be disgusted if that in any way happens. In no way, shape or form should Sam be the one to push Michael out. This belongs to Dean.

The only way I will accept this is if it's setting up Dean to be OG!Michael's vessel. Or even if Michael has a much bigger plan to get Sam to say yes because maybe Dean is too damn strong for Michael, that his squirming is becoming too much to fight off. Maybe Sam is his target not because Sam is so strong but that IMO Sam would be easier to manipulate than Dean, which IMO is not out of the realm of possibility given Sam does have a history of his hope/hubris/stubbornness allowing the ne'er do wells to manipulate him.

Myrelle · January 17, 2019

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Seeing the extended promo, why is Sam saying, "If I can get into Dean's head maybe I (meaning Sam) can push Michael out).

Since when come someone tell an angel to unpossess someone else.

Either its more lol!canon, more SuperSam or Sam really has no faith in Dean's ability to fight Michael on his own, otherwise why not say 'Encourge Dean to fight"

Or more likley, all three.

Yup.

That was a red flag for all three to me, too.

Just now, catrox14 said:

The only way I will accept this is if it's setting up Dean to be OG!Michael's vessel. Or even if Michael has a much bigger plan to get Sam to say yes because maybe Dean is too damn strong for Michael, that his squirming is becoming too much to fight off. Maybe Sam is his target not because Sam is so strong but that IMO Sam would be easier to manipulate than Dean, which IMO is not out of the realm of possibility given Sam does have a history of his hope/hubris/stubbornness allowing the ne'er do wells to manipulate him.

This is true, but I'd rather they just do away with the Michael storyline altogether rather than hand it over to Sam/JP(or any OC, for that matter) on a silver platter.

Aeryn13 · January 17, 2019

Thing is, I was already cheering for Michael during the beatdown scene. This ain`t making it better.

ILoveReading · January 17, 2019

https://ew.com/tv/2019/01/17/supernatural-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki-dad-return-episode-300/

Quote

As Jeffrey Dean Morgan told EW, it’s a chance for closure between father and son. As Padalecki puts it, “This episode gives Sam a chance to say sorry and to also forgive.”

What exactly does Sam need to apologize to John for? Isn't this the exact same scene we saw in The Song Remains the Same where Sam says he understands?

Father and Son. Singular, not plural. I guess Dean was adopted after all.

Quote

But for Dean — who plays a big part in Dad’s return — the episode is a glimpse into a wonderful life that he can’t have. “This is something that Dean’s always wished for,” Jensen Ackles says. “For Dean, the whole episode is a dream that he doesn’t want to wake up from. But he knows he has to. So it’s that inner struggle of wanting what’s in front of you and wanting what you have at this moment to last but knowing that it won’t, and that’s been a story that has been repeated on this show quite often. It’s heartbreaking.”

Dabb really did just copy and paste What is and What should Never Be.

But it really sounds like Dean's scene with John is like the one with Mary. Glad, your back, her's how much Sam suffered because of what you did.

ILoveReading · January 17, 2019

So is this episode not important enough for a sneak peek?

They usually come out around 1pm my time. So it certainly not a priority for anyone.

Again, I don't buy, It's too spoilery.

Edited January 17, 2019 by ILoveReading

Aeryn13 · January 17, 2019

Quote

But it really sounds like Dean's scene with John is like the one with Mary. Glad, your back, her's how much Sam suffered because of what you did.

I don`t think it will be that so much as basically just copy-pasting the general vibe of "why can`t we ever have nice things?" from What is and what should never be. So Dean is happy to have John back but knows it`s just a pipe dream.

Which doesn`t have much meat behind it. I could even get that because, like I said, I don`t know what kind of closure they could legitimately get in such a short time frame. But if that entire wish-world thing comes about because Dean specifically wants closure, then that needs to be adressed. I mean, what does he want out of it?

And yeah, Sam and John will have a replay of their convo from Song Remains the Same. Just this time both parties will have awareness and knowledge.

To be honest, I think all the scenes will be rather generic. Yes, the writers will crow about how heartbreaking it all is and the actors will do their best to make it work (even to the point of possibly kinda making it work in the moment) but the actual content of the scenes? I really foresee generic, predictable and regurgitated stuff. With a pat "I`m so proud of you", poofs off, brothers cry, roll credits scene at the end.

Bobcatkitten · January 17, 2019

10 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

So is this episode not important enough for a sneak peek?

They usually come out around 1pm my time. So it certainly not a priority for anyone.

Again, I don't buy, It's too spoilery.

It's been out a while. Some discussion in the other spoiler thread.

ILoveReading · January 17, 2019

Just now, Bobcatkitten said:

It's been out a while. Some discussion in the other spoiler thread.

That's the promo. Not the sneak peek.

The sneak peek is usually a clip from the episode.

Aeryn13 · January 17, 2019

Yeah, Iit kinda looks like we don`t get a sneak peak. Just this weird extended promo thing.

Bobcatkitten · January 17, 2019

Ah. Gotcha. Usually they pick stupid clips so I like the promos better :)

ILoveReading · January 18, 2019

Im guessing the end of this ep will have to do with Sam's unimaginable choice Dean wouldn't get upset about his own death, only if it was about something happening to Sam or something Sam has to do. So Sam probably has to go back to the cage or something,

Since the 300th episode is coming up, its Demon Dean all over again. Dean has to be normal for that, so I'm guessing this story ends with episode 12.

gonzosgirrl · January 18, 2019

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Im guessing the end of this ep will have to do with Sam's unimaginable choice Dean wouldn't get upset about his own death, only if it was about something happening to Sam or something Sam has to do. So Sam probably has to go back to the cage or something,

Since the 300th episode is coming up, its Demon Dean all over again. Dean has to be normal for that, so I'm guessing this story ends with episode 12.

It most likely will involve Sam's choice, but it does have to be about Dean's death, because it's his book.

juppschmitz · January 18, 2019

14 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I guess Dean was adopted after all.

If only...

catrox14 · January 18, 2019

Erm,....when did Sam ever idolize John? Never is when. Is Jared's comment only in reference to the 300th wherein something's altered, because that is rewriting Canon if he means in this universe.

And if they legitimately mean that Sam has always idolized then that further feeds my theory that Sam is being turned into Dean.

I mean it was Dean who idolized John so much so that Sam mocked him for it.

The fuck?!

ILoveReading · January 18, 2019

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It most likely will involve Sam's choice, but it does have to be about Dean's death, because it's his book.

Did they show a name on the book? I didn't see the episode.

It would be a good story line if Sam has to kill Dean, and let him learn what its like that you have to life with the knowledge that you might have to kill your own brother.

It probably something like Sam has to say yes to Lucifer and jump back in the cage, and you die when Michael leaves you.

I guess we know why Dean is in a bad place physically in episode 12, Michael has probably left.

This might have been a good episode, but it doesn't change the fact that Dabb is still in charge.

Edited January 18, 2019 by ILoveReading

gonzosgirrl · January 18, 2019

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Did they show a name on the book? I didn't see the episode.

They didn't show any names, but the discussion with Billie was of how all of his stories had changed to have the same ending (death by Michael, who burns the world), except the one she handed him. It was pretty clear.

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This might have been a good episode, but it doesn't change the fact that Dabb is still in charge.

No it doesn't, but Dabb being in charge also doesn't change the fact this was a good episode. I get the feeling, trust me, but I have to give credit where it's due, and Yockey wrote a great episode.

ILoveReading · January 18, 2019

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

They didn't show any names, but the discussion with Billie was of how all of his stories had changed to have the same ending (death by Michael, who burns the world), except the one she handed him. It was pretty clear.

We know that Dean doesn't care about his own death. If it was about him having to do something, like jump into the cage or go to the empty then we know Dean wouldn't hesitate.

He would only have that kind of reaction if it involved Sam having to suffer somehow. Whatever Sam does ends with Dean dead and Sam suffering . I just don' see it Dean's death revolving around him, not on Dabbnatural.

But I feel like I'm starting to go over the jerk/bitch line, so I'll leave it there.

gonzosgirrl · January 18, 2019

12 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

It probably something like Sam has to say yes to Lucifer and jump back in the cage, and you die when Michael leaves you.

That really doesn't make any sense - why would Michael leave him just because Lucifer is in Sam (if that happens). I do see how it could be that Samifer and Michael!Dean have to fight, and Lucifer could prevail, which would kill Dean along with Michael. But that wasn't the vibe I got from the scene. I do think that Sam's unthinkable choice is going to be sacrificing Dean in order to defeat Michael, but I don't think that would require Sam to say 'yes' - I think Dean would facilitate it if that is what it comes down to, not fight it.

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

We know that Dean doesn't care about his own death. If it was about him having to do something, like jump into the cage or go to the empty then we know Dean wouldn't hesitate.

I agree - but that doesn't change the fact that he just read about his own death. The scene ends there, so shock and sadness in the seconds following a revelation like that are normal, even for Dean. Not saying you're wrong, but maybe if you watch it, you'll see it differently.

Edited January 18, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

ILoveReading · January 18, 2019

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I agree - but that doesn't change the fact that he just read about his own death. The scene ends there, so shock and sadness in the seconds following a revelation like that are normal, even for Dean. Not saying you're wrong, but maybe if you watch it, you'll see it differently.

Maybe at the end of the season when i see how it all plays out, but given home many times things like this end as a bait and switch, I'd rather not.

gonzosgirrl · January 18, 2019

Just now, ILoveReading said:

Maybe at the end of the season when i see how it all plays out, but given home many times things like this end as a bait and switch, I'd rather not.

Honestly, you're punishing yourself here. Nobody loathes Dabb and Dabbernatural more than I do, but this was a master-class performance from Jensen and some much needed balm for a Dean-girl's soul. I am very glad I watched it.

Just now, BabySpinach said:

YES, they did. The book said D. Winchester on the spine.

Thanks! I missed that. There was no question it was Dean's story, but it's good to have confirmation. :)

BabySpinach · January 18, 2019

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Did they show a name on the book? I didn't see the episode.

YES, they did. The book said D. Winchester on the spine.

ILoveReading · January 18, 2019

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Honestly, you're punishing yourself here. Nobody loathes Dabb and Dabbernatural more than I do, but this was a master-class performance from Jensen and some much needed balm for a Dean-girl's soul. I am very glad I watched it.

For me its the opposite, no matter how good it is, if nothing is followed up on, it will just make me even more disappointed at the lost potential. I'm sure Jensen was great though.

gonzosgirrl · January 18, 2019

18 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

For me its the opposite, no matter how good it is, if nothing is followed up on, it will just make me even more disappointed at the lost potential.

Don't watch the next one then ;)

ILoveReading · January 18, 2019

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Don't watch the next one then ;)

I wish I could just do that, but for me it doesn't work. It will just taint this episode.

Aeryn13 · January 18, 2019

I think Dean`s reaction wasn`t an over-the-top-no like you would expect from something bad happening with Sam. I kinda got the feeling the book (and yes, it read "D.Winchester" on the spine) wasn`t talking so much about his death but something even worse happening to him.

And since it was clearly set-up as the mystery cliffhanger for the second part of the Season, I believe it will be paid off in the Season finale. Till then Dean will stay the cage. That leaves them perfectly free to do standalone and mytharc and Michael can bother Dean as much or as little during individual episodes as each writer wants.

Lucifer IMO will come back but will stay a Nick thing. He is fully the project of Bucklemming and they will write Nickifer till the cows come home. And if they have to do it rather unrelated to any other storyline? They will.

ILoveReading · January 18, 2019

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

And since it was clearly set-up as the mystery cliffhanger for the second part of the Season, I believe it will be paid off in the Season finale. Till then Dean will stay the cage. That leaves them perfectly free to do standalone and mytharc and Michael can bother Dean as much or as little during individual episodes as each writer wants.

Is Dabb smart enough to to do this or will it even occur to him that this can happen or is he going to have Michael escape at the end of episode 12, so Dean will be normal for the 300th?

We have the spoiler that Dean isn't in a good place physically in episode 12 and that there is supposed to be some kind of conversation with Cas, so he's either so run down that he has to physically tell Michael to get out and face the consequences, or Michael escapes on his own and Dean isn't good, but he's able to be treated by a doctor.

Aeryn13 · January 18, 2019

Quote

Is Dabb smart enough to to do this or will it even occur to him that this can happen or is he going to have Michael escape at the end of episode 12, so Dean will be normal for the 300th?

Billy said all the other books have been rewritten so that Michael escapes, uses Dean as his perfect vessel and burns down the world. All but one book. Michael doesn`t want to let go of Dean. Methinks especially now, If he got control back, he would want revenge on Dean even more by using him. Then he would "kill" Dean`s spirit inside so it was just him.

The way I understood the set-up is that Michael can`t escape. So he won`t leave in ep 11 or 12. Now whatever is in that one book that ends differently will probably require stuff that spans several episodes. Like getting the ingredients for the spell together to open the portal to alterna-world.

Maybe it says something like Dean obviously can`t overpower Michael forever but they will have to merge or something, in essence snuffing out both Michael - and Dean - forever. Then if they were brave that could happen and Jensen would play a different character for the rest of the show whereas Dean would have sacrificed himself for the world. Or it would be avoided at the last moment.

Now granted, that last part is just wild speculation here.

I also think the current set-up solves all the problems of lazy writers and writers disinterested in Dean and his stories. Dean can be as normal as Dabb wants for ep 300. He doesn`t have to acknowledge Michael in lock-up, other than maybe a throwaway comment. They do this all the time. Oh, heaven is on the verge of collapse, lights will be out any second now. Yeah, sure, that was two years ago?

Edited January 18, 2019 by Aeryn13

Bobcatkitten · January 18, 2019

What if Sam has to kill Dean?

ILoveReading · January 18, 2019

1 minute ago, Bobcatkitten said:

What if Sam has to kill Dean?

I'd be okay with that, because its still about Dean.

Aeryn13 · January 18, 2019

It`s possible but if Dean just dies, I`m not sure that would also kill Michael. Right now Dean`s conscious will is what is holding Michael at bay. If Dean dies, IMO it would kinda open the prison door. If they wanted to deal with Michael permanently, they`d have to find a way to seal him in, kill him or transfer him to another cage, like the cage for example.

juppschmitz · January 18, 2019

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

He would only have that kind of reaction if it involved Sam having to suffer somehow.

Aaand I feel myself checking out again. I hate that yet again they bait Dean girls with this book. Nothing is going to come of it. Nothing that might hold any interest to me. Not worth hanging around for and waiting to be fed scraps off Dabb's table.

juppschmitz · January 18, 2019

It doesn't even matter one single bit what that one book says. Dean is not going to DIE die for as long as the series runs.

Whatever it says in the book, they're going to rewrite it. Duh.

catrox14 · January 18, 2019

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Did they show a name on the book? I didn't see the episode.

Yes. On the binder was written D. Winchester.

Lemuria · January 18, 2019

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

so he's either so run down that he has to physically tell Michael to get out and face the consequences, or Michael escapes on his own and Dean isn't good, but he's able to be treated by a doctor.

I was going to reply to this but Aeryn13 said it better so I'm just going to +1 her!

50 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

they`d have to find a way to seal him in, kill him or transfer him to another cage, like the cage for example.

Which may be why we see Dean welding something in the multi-ep promo.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Lemuria

catrox14 · January 18, 2019

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Maybe at the end of the season when i see how it all plays out, but given home many times things like this end as a bait and switch, I'd rather not.

I get why you feel this way, but I really do think you'll enjoy the episode.

I thought Dean's reaction was interesting with "What I am supposed to do with this?" IMO, he looked more shocked than scared.

I am wondering why they don't open another portal to AW, have Dean go there with Michael, eject him and then come back. Heck it might be that is what Dean has to do and thus separate himself forever.

I do wonder what he is welding in the promo. Maybe he has to build another actual cage?

gonzosgirrl · January 18, 2019

56 minutes ago, juppschmitz said:

Aaand I feel myself checking out again. I hate that yet again they bait Dean girls with this book. Nothing is going to come of it. Nothing that might hold any interest to me. Not worth hanging around for and waiting to be fed scraps off Dabb's table.

And again I say, watching the episode gave me, a pretty fervent Dean fan/Dabb... not-fan, a different impression. Y'all really should watch, then be bitter. :)

Cambion · January 18, 2019

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Did they show a name on the book? I didn't see the episode.

~~Actually, yes. The bottom of the spine said "D. Winchester".~~

Edited January 18, 2019 by Cambion
cause I didn't read all the responses before jumpin in.

Aeryn13 · January 18, 2019

While I would never say never with this show and I`m certainly not extending any faith, I do believe they have created this current situation TO be lazy with Michael till the Season Finale. If Dean was possesed with Michael in control, we`d get the endless excuses on why this can`t happen for longer than an episode. Bla bla, brothers together, bla bla standalones bla bla.

This gives them that. Michael is in play but no need to recast him or work in awkward side-notes into episodes what he is up to. Everyone knows where he is and why currently he isn`t wreaking havoc out there. The monsters have gone to ground for the time being. Btw, I wonder if anyone checked on Garth. Is he still homicidal?

So every writer can do whatever they want and either ignore it completely or put in a little something how Dean is bothered by the banging in his head. If a writer is thus inclined, they can do more with it and use it for angst. As I think episode 12 will do. Maybe Michael makes such a ruckus in Dean`s head, it slowly drives him crazy. Like having a supe-tinnitus.

Sam`s "unimaginable choice" is certainly something to do to "deal" with Dean, at Dean`s behest, going by the promo.

The episode 13 summary for Lebanon says that "to deal with their current problem, they are checking ancient occult lore". What is their current problem? Michael inside the Dean-cage. I think episode 13 will be a "reprieve" like Dean being turned into a boy was a reprieve from the MOC but at the end of the episode, he is right back with his 99 Michael-shaped problems.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Aeryn13

Lastcall · January 18, 2019

I know I’m going to regret this but after last nights ep and JDM’s upcoming I had to comment. I have a pretty good idea where they are going with this. I think the book says Dean kills himself to kill Michael. That’s probably why he is acting weird and hugging people, he is saying goodbye. The welding is probably the spear or longshot Michael’s lance. Sams decision is whether to stop him or help him. Dean stabs himself as I don’t think Dabb is going to risk Sam looking bad. He doesn’t die but is hurt very badly leading into the next episode. He survives, Sam gives a speech and Dean promises to carry on. Michael probably won’t die but will somehow be wounded to keep him off the show for awhile. In no way do I think dean has access to Michaels powers as it would make him too powerful and he could just stab himself with the Arch-angel blade.

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