These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[Casseiopeia]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

It seems so random otherwise. He apparently has a plan but still takes the time to just torture some folks for...reasons? It this gonna be an incredibly simplistic way of showing the character is a villain? You have that shot of the girl cowering in fear. Is this really gonna be as simple as that?

Remember, they have to fit in this entire present-time "story" in basically 2 episodes. That leaves almost no room for, well, anything. 

Are they demons?  The background looks kind of like Hell or an above ground Hell bunker.

[ahrtee]

On 9/20/2018 at 8:05 AM, BabySpinach said:

I'd swear that the writers said earlier that Sam was focused on leading the AU hunters and getting Dean back, and that he would clash with the former in regards to how to deal with Michael. 

Also, Sam LITERALLY TALKED TO DEAN RIGHT BEFORE MICHAEL TOOK OVER. Does he think that Michael somehow killed Dean afterward and is just wearing a dead meat suit? If angels could do that, wouldn't they all choose to do so?

Ep. 1 synopsis is out, and yeah, Sam is rallying the troops to save Dean, so he's not dead (yet.)   Unless they're confusing Dean and Michael (again)?

ALL HANDS ON DECK – Sam (Jared Padalecki) enlists everyone’s help in trying to track down Dean (Jensen Ackles), who can literally be anywhere. Meanwhile, Castiel (Misha Collins) may be in over his head after meeting up with an unreliable source. After being drained of his grace in season 13, Jack (Alexander Calvert) is adjusting to life as a human, learning new skills and figuring out how he fits in to this world of hunters. Thomas J. Wright directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb (#1401). Original Airdate. 10/11/2018

from: http://winchesterbros.com/?p=18455

ETA:  Sorry, I just realized this should probably be in "regular" spoilers, but I'm kind of bitter. :)

Edited September 22, 2018 by ahrtee

[Myrelle]

Quote

 

Just because we know Dean comes back at some point doesn't mean Michael fails ultimately. He could use another vessel. Lots of story to tell with Michael, regardless of whether he is in Dean or not. 

 

Well, the problem with this is that separating the two characters could also equate to severing Dean's connection to the storyline by handing the good stuff off to another character-as has been the case more than once on this show-and that's the fear for some of us, at this point; and it's why if they're separated by ep 2 or 3, the storyline could go the same way as Purgatory and DemonDean went. And while DemonDean did lead into the MOC, writing-wise, it was far from a seamless transition.

I'm with those who are predominantly still here for the Michael!Dean portrayal-especially now that we know that the writing of the storyline seems to be taking the same path that Dean's supernaturally-connected storylines have usually been taken in the past. Once the Michael!Dean possession storyline is over(again, apparently by ep.2 or 3-at the latest), the only direction that the spoilers we've gotten so far have indicated the storyline is going to for Dean involves simply and only emo again. and while this should be true also 

Quote

 

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

If they continue with Michael in a different vessel, then Dean should remember what Michael was attempting to do, and be the best person to stop him.

 

there is no guarantee that this set of writers would want to remember this fact or even consider it, for that matter. Not IMO, anyway.

[catrox14]

https://ew.com/tv/2018/09/26/supernatural-castiel-sam-season-14/?utm_content=link&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_ew&utm_term=2C177CF0-C1C6-11E8-8609-DA024844363C&__twitter_impression=true

 

LOL Jensen...what are you saying here??

Quote

When it comes to the Winchesters, Castiel has kind of always had a favorite. It’s no secret that his friendship with Dean is stronger than his friendship with Sam. “Sam and Cas have never had that same connection,” Misha Collins says. “It was formed the moment that Cas pulled Dean out of Hell.”

But with Supernatural ending season 13 with the archangel Michael possessing Dean, Sam and Castiel have a common goal heading into season 14: To get Dean back. “Cas is pulling out all the stops,” Collins says. “He’s willing to make any kind of deal with any kind of devil in order to get Dean back. He’s attempting to form unsavory alliances and leaving no stone unturned. The entire hunter clan is wildly searching for any possible solution to the problem.” Jared Padalecki adds, “Sam is grateful in a strange way almost to have something to do.”

As for whether Sam and Castiel will bond in Dean’s absence, Collins says, “Sam was initially more weary of Cas. They have grown closer over the years and we see that in the beginning of this season. They’re showing care and concern for one another to an extent that we haven’t quite seen before.” After all, they’ve both lost a brother.

But don’t worry, Dean won’t be gone forever. Jensen Ackles says, “Michael does stick around longer than people might think, but Dean’s not going to be gone long.”

So which is it?  Poor Jensen. Always covering for these writers and being diplomatic.  That said, assuming he's being forthright here, it's gonna have to be that Michael ends up in another vessel or, maybe hopefull, he's still in Dean and letting Dean out for his purposes...which I'd be okay with TBH. But that's probably too much for me to hope for, really. 

Also, Cas and Sam bonding seems to be the biggest thing here.  I guess they have to make sure that Sam gets a friend and it's Cas...  I see what you are doing, SPN.  I see it.  You still won't stop my Destiel shipper heart...but it's a good try. LOL

ETA: I'm also confused by why all hunters are trying to save Dean yet Jack isn't??

Also, is it me or are these spoilers totally contradictory depending on the source?? 

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So which is it?  Poor Jensen. Always covering for these writers and being diplomatic. 

I'd like to think his almost complete lack of any enthusiasm for the show outside of official interviews is him playing possum because there are super-amazing-awesome surprises in store for and with Dean. Alas,  I don't think Dabb & Co are capable of pulling a story like that off. They are so paint by numbers these days, I fully expect that Michael will be in another vessel. I'll only be surprised if it's not one of his wayward women, or (blech) the resurrected Nick-suit. I can see that appealing to Dabb's LOOK HOW CLEVER I AM!! nature.

[catrox14]

https://www.tvguide.com/news/supernatural-season-14-everything-we-know/?ftag=TVG_Twitter

Here's more from TV Guide. 

Quote

3 Important Things We Learned From the Supernatural Season 14 Trailer

The season will be much more grounded. Rather than build toward an epic, end-of-the-world battle like they've done a million times before, this season will focus more on the emotional journeys of Sam, Dean, Castiel and Jack. "The season [is] probably a little smaller in scope than some of the other seasons we've done but a little heavier on the emotional stories," executive producer Robert Singer told TV Guide. Grab some tissues, it sounds like this season will be an emotional rollercoaster. *

Michael's possession of Dean will have lasting effects. The driving force behind Season 14 will be the search for Dean, who is being possessed by the archangel Michael. With the elder Winchester MIA while Michael commits heinous acts using his body, Dean's eventual return (obviously he's returning) won't be an easy transition back to every day life. It's something he'll continue to deal with once Michael is ejected from his body."The question is when and how does he come back? And when he does, what did that experience with Michael, how did that affect him? I think that's something we're going to be dealing with for the remainder of the season," said Ackles. **

Sam will struggle without his brother. With Dean missing, a gang of Apocalypse World hunters to lead and more innocent victims to save, Sam will have a full plate. He's going to struggle without his brother by his side supporting him. "Sam is just terrified. He just loves his brother, he worries about him. And now he doesn't have his main confidant to help him make decisions," *** said Padalecki.

***********************************************

Their quest to stop Michael will be marred by a series of roadblocks including the fact that the only beings powerful enough to stop him are no longer in the game--Lucifer (Mark Pellegrino) is dead and Jack (Alexander Calvert) is now powerless. Plus, Sam will also juggle leading the Apocalypse World gang with day-to-day hunter duties while Castiel (Misha Collins) will take on a new role as Jack's mentor as the Nephilim grapples with being practically human.****

*LOL They say this EVERY season since Dabb took over as showrunner.  So what is the damn point of Michael if there isn't going to be a big epic battle?? Sigh....

**So it's going to be nothing but Dean angst which Jensen does beautifully but FFS give Dean a REAL mytharc that has consequences.  Also, why would Michael even commit heinous acts? I'm so not here for Dean being shamed for what he did. And it's totally going to be what happens.

***So Sam is bereft without Dean yet not spending all of his time and energy trying to save him and is instead worried about leading the AU Hunters..WAT?

****Wait, so they would consider using Lucifer to stop Michael if he wasn't dead?  THIS is so setting up Lucifer getting out of the Empty, iMO. They will not let him stay dead I am 100% certain now.

[catrox14]

ETA: 

Quote

Jack and Cas will be spending a lot of time together. Now that Jack has lost his powers, he has to cope with no longer being the strongest being in the room — and that won't be an easy feat. The young Nephilim will find himself in a dark place this season, but he'll have support in Castiel, who knows exactly what he's going through. Cas will take Jack under his wing and teach him what it means to be human, bringing them even closer together.

"[Jack is] almost human and he has to deal with what a miserable experience it is to be human and to be unable to snap your fingers and solve problems magically. So Cas is in a unique position to help him with that because Cas went through that and has come out the other side," Misha Collins explained

Cas never said it was a miserable experience to be human. He learned about humanity and to even love them more than he did because he could relate. And shouldn't Jack already be able to relate to being human since he's...you know 1/2 human ALREADY and didn't want to really even learn to use his powers??? And has human feelings...and stuff??

FFS, Jack barely even learned how to use his powers and he didn't use them to kill his father or Michael...so.....why is he in a dark place other than maybe grieving Dean or gods forbid, Lucifer? I mean I would be okay with him grieving Lucifer but it also would continue to make Lucifer not look so bad if Jack feels bad that's he's dead, which IMO would be what BuckLeming would do, since they seem to like writing for Lucifer more than any other character....see also: Lucifer is so not really most sincerely forever in the Empty dead. 

[gonzosgirrl]

While Dean is 'away'. Away. Like he took a few days at the beach. Aren't Cas and Sam lucky that he went and got himself possessed - now they get to bond!!!!

JFC, and they wonder why Dean fans get bitter.

"He won't be gone long" -- pretty far cry from the promises implied at the end of the season. I despise Dabb & Co so much.

ETA: The more I see that, the angrier I get. It just goes along with Dabb's comment about them having breathing room to write without worrying about pesky old Dean. Like Sam and Cas couldn't 'bond' with him around. I sincerely hope that Dean is in some kind of coma inside Michael and not aware of how much of a silver lining his possession is.

I wish Dabb was half as scared of the Dean fans as he is of the other fan brigades.

Edited September 26, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

While Dean is 'away'. Away. Like he took a few days at the beach. Aren't Cas and Sam lucky that he went and got himself possessed - now they get to bond!!!!

Seriously.  It's such crap. 

[ILoveReading]

20 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

ETA: The more I see that, the angrier I get. It just goes along with Dabb's comment about them having breathing room to write without worrying about pesky old Dean. Like Sam and Cas couldn't 'bond' with him around. I sincerely hope that Dean is in some kind of coma inside Michael and not aware of how much of a silver lining his possession is.

Dean's better off in a coma I think.  They've been trying to bond Sam and Cas for 10 years now.  Why do the writers think this time is going to be different.

I wonder what Cas and Sam will talk about.  Maybe this time they can have a riveting conversation about Ham and Cheese or tunafish because I doubt they'll be talking about Dean.

[ILoveReading]

https://justanotheridijiton.tumblr.com/post/178464115524/august-10-2012-july-18-2014-september-25

So it looks like Dean fishing could be a spoiler.  Maybe it's where Michael put Dean.

But its also copy and pasted from s4.  Gee, I wonder why I think the writers are lazy.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

While Dean is 'away'. Away. Like he took a few days at the beach. Aren't Cas and Sam lucky that he went and got himself possessed - now they get to bond!!!!

JFC, and they wonder why Dean fans get bitter.

"He won't be gone long" -- pretty far cry from the promises implied at the end of the season. I despise Dabb & Co so much.

ETA: The more I see that, the angrier I get. It just goes along with Dabb's comment about them having breathing room to write without worrying about pesky old Dean. Like Sam and Cas couldn't 'bond' with him around. I sincerely hope that Dean is in some kind of coma inside Michael and not aware of how much of a silver lining his possession is.

I wish Dabb was half as scared of the Dean fans as he is of the other fan brigades.

 

 

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Seriously.  It's such crap. 

 

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean's better off in a coma I think.  They've been trying to bond Sam and Cas for 10 years now.  Why do the writers think this time is going to be different.

I wonder what Cas and Sam will talk about.  Maybe this time they can have a riveting conversation about Ham and Cheese or tunafish because I doubt they'll be talking about Dean.

It's all the same and always been the same with this show since S5, IMO-and especially where it concerns the promotional part of it. 

It's pretty much a joke now within my circle of fandom-which is admittedly small because, yes, there's no ship involved-only Dean fans.

The one thing I find interesting is that Cas seems to be the one who is most hell bent on getting Dean back-even more so than Sam-at least from the nonsense that we've been getting most recently.

And yes, they've been trying to make Cas and Sam besties since S5, but somehow, it's just never happened. 

It's probably that PeskyDean's fault(with JA being absolutely no help in that regard, either). But this time will be the charm, I'm sure-especially because Dean is "away" and all the other characters can now "breathe" because of that. Nice.

Everything that's come out PR-wise since Comic Com has been coma-inducing because it's, again, all and always the same old crap with this show. And if I went into details this post would have to go to the B vs J thread.

I'll be glad when the season starts and Jensen's performances will make me forget all about the ridiculous and ludicrous PR that we're getting now-because that's also what always happens for me with this show when they give him even half a chance to strut his stuff. 

It's almost as if just talking about Michael!Dean or anything Mean related scares the piss out of some people where it concerns this show. And I'm talking all facets of this show's viewing audience, including no few within the fandom as well as some outside of it(AKA certain BTS people, too).

Edited September 27, 2018 by Myrelle

[AwesomO4000]

Quote

As for whether Sam and Castiel will bond in Dean’s absence, Collins says, “Sam was initially more weary of Cas. They have grown closer over the years and we see that in the beginning of this season. They’re showing care and concern for one another to an extent that we haven’t quite seen before.” After all, they’ve both lost a brother.

Wait what? I'm not sure where Misha gets this. In my opinion, it was actually the other way around. Sam accepted Castiel from day one, and wasn't really very wary of him until he started acting weirdly in season 6... but even then Sam accepted him again right away, even after Castiel broke his wall. Maybe I'm forgetting something, but except for that one time in season 6, when was Sam ever wary of Castiel?

Quote

The entire hunter clan is wildly searching for any possible solution to the problem.” Jared Padalecki adds, “Sam is grateful in a strange way almost to have something to do.”

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

***So Sam is bereft without Dean yet not spending all of his time and energy trying to save him and is instead worried about leading the AU Hunters..WAT?

My interpretation is that Sam not only feels, but is at a loss when it comes to finding Dean according to the narrative, so he's busying himself helping the AU people... who probably don't need or maybe even want his help, hence his missing Dean not only because he loves him, but because he's likely going to be uncomfortable trying to lead - pretty much as I've been predicting, and which also seems to be what Jared is saying in his above quote when he says: "Sam is just terrified. He just loves his brother, he worries about him. And now he doesn't have his main confidant to help him make decisions."

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Cas never said it was a miserable experience to be human.

I think he sort of did in a round about way a few times in season 9. When he became an angel again, there were certain things he missed - for example being able to taste peanut butter and jelly sandwiches - but I still think deep down, Castiel does prefer to belong to "that better club" (as future Castiel form "The End" described it). And I do think Castiel puts part of his worth in his ability to do things an angel can do... such as heal people, and so when he was human and couldn't do that, I suspect he did feel quite a bit like being human in comparison was a somewhat miserable experience, because he felt less in control and less able to help.

[devlin]

Have we got any idea what dean’s storyline is going to be this season. We know sam is going to be leading the au people and later dealing safely with Michael, cas  will be helping jack adjust to life as a human. Mean ends episode 2, so is there a story for dean other than angsting about what Michael did in his body?

[catrox14]

52 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Wait what? I'm not sure where Misha gets this. In my opinion, it was actually the other way around. Sam accepted Castiel from day one, and wasn't really very wary of him until he started acting weirdly in season 6... but even then Sam accepted him again right away, even after Castiel broke his wall. Maybe I'm forgetting something, but except for that one time in season 6, when was Sam ever wary of Castiel?

Sam accepted the idea of angels but once Castiel met him and immediately pegged him as a bit of a problem child I think that's where the wariness came in. Cas was wary of Sam's behavior and that in turn led to Sam being distrustful of Cas in s4. IMO.  I could be wrong but that's how I saw the events of Cas meeting Sam. He even said that Sam was an abomination.  FWIW, I think the write up in that piece could be poor because surely the writer meant "wary" not "weary", so if that's the case maybe the writer meant that Cas was wary of Sam but got it wrong in the final write up.  

Alternatively, it could just be Misha trying to find some way to sell whatever bond they are trying to set up between Sam and Cas. I won't be surprised if Cas and Sam are at odds over Sam not spending all his time trying to save Dean when it seems that is what Cas will be doing.  That said, MO the bonding will probably consist of a conversation about what to do about saving Dean and making sure Jack is on the straight and narrow and that's it.

[AwesomO4000]

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Sam accepted the idea of angels but once Castiel met him and immediately pegged him as a bit of a problem child I think that's where the wariness came in. Cas was wary of Sam's behavior and that in turn led to Sam being distrustful of Cas in s4. IMO.  I could be wrong but that's how I saw the events of Cas meeting Sam. He even said that Sam was an abomination. 

I agree that Castiel was wary of Sam - which is what I meant when I said that I thought that it was the other way around - but that's not what the piece had Misha saying. He was saying that Sam was wary of Castiel, and you may be correct, but I just didn't get that vibe from Sam... now Uriel is a different story. I think Sam was wary of Uriel from the beginning. But I think Sam was maybe a little too trusting of Castiel in the  beginning, myself, and generally had been. I just didn't get the impression that the reason Castiel and Sam didn't bond like Dean and Castiel did was because Sam was wary of Castiel.

But you are likely right that something likely got lost in translation somewhere.

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

That said, MO the bonding will probably consist of a conversation about what to do about saving Dean and making sure Jack is on the straight and narrow and that's it.

This I pretty much agree with. Although I like Sam and Castiel's relationship and think that they have some things to bond over that Castiel and Dean just don't share - mainly knowing what it's like to screw up on a cosmic level - I think likely the show isn't going to go into any of that this time, and it's more that it's hyperbole.

4 hours ago, devlin said:

Have we got any idea what dean’s storyline is going to be this season.

I am hoping that his time as Michael's meatsuit might give Dean some insight into what Michael is up to and that this will help in dealing with him... The logical thing for the flashbacks to be about would be Dean being triggered and/or somehow remembering back to something that happened with Michael which in the end will hopefully be an important piece of information. If there are flashbacks, that means that Dean does have actual memories - rather than just blank time and false ones like Sam had with Gadreel (which is why Sam didn't have any really helpful information or insight into Gadreel) - so that might be one positive thing from knowing that their will be flashbacks... Flashbacks mean that Dean has some actual memories to flash back to. And while there will likely be trauma there, Dean's story might be that he has to work past all of that to get some critical information.

And even if Michael did try to lock Dean away in false memories, I am hoping that the flashbacks might also be about Dean fighting through that and/or his false memories somehow reflecting bits of information that Dean was still able to gather and that affected his false memories - somewhat like "What Is..." where Dean's brain still picked up information and incorporated it into his dream world until he figured it out. I think there is some interesting potential there for Dean to try to unravel his memories and find out some pieces of information they may need. If fishing is a clue for example, what might have been an innocuous fishing dream false memory - as Dean remembers it - have some hidden information that Dean's brain only processes later. f they di stuff like that with the flashbacks, I think they have the potential to be an interesting tie in to the main story.

[devlin]

I should really stop reading any promo material coz I am now dreading next season and any excitement I had has disappeared. Apparently sam is going to have some serious bonding with Mary, is going to bond with cas and is forming good relationships with the au group. All this is being framed as it has been only been possible coz the ever suffocating Dean is absent.

[gonzosgirrl]

 

So after a truncated storyline, Dean is going to feel bad later in the season because he remembers the bad things 'he' did. Why does that sound vaguely familiar?

I don't think I can watch this season live. I just don't give a shit about Jack fainting or the Momby and the AU people, or the Wayward Whatevers being woven back into the story. All the anticipation of a great Michael/Dean story seems to have been a proper gaslighting. 

Edited: taking the rest to BvJ.

Edited October 1, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

22 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 

So after a truncated storyline, Dean is going to feel bad later in the season because he remembers the bad things 'he' did. Why does that sound vaguely familiar?

I don't think I can watch this season live. I just don't give a shit about Jack fainting or the Momby and the AU people, or the Wayward Whatevers being woven back into the story. All the anticipation of a great Michael/Dean story seems to have been a proper gaslighting. 

Edited: taking the rest to BvJ.

 

GFD....it's the same thing as the Hell storyline which means it will amount to fuck all.  I knew it. We all knew it.  It's so damn predictably bait and switch for Jensen/Dean fans. 

ETA:  I doubt he really even believes the spin he's giving and being told. It will be the same thing as s4 and s10 when 'the story had to move along so they couldn't give as much attention to it as other things that needed to happen'. 

Fuck, I am officially angry now.

Edited October 1, 2018 by catrox14

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Fuck, I am officially angry now.

Me too. And I personally think either Jensen was lied to about where/how the story would go, or they changed their minds after writing for the new season started. He was genuinely excited about Mean in the days immediately surrounding the finale, and even as late as SDCC (which makes sense if it's true that he doesn't read ahead), but as filming has ensued...nothing. I don't believe it's about not spoiling some epic storytelling - there's just nothing to be enthusiastic about in yet another story told in flashbacks.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

GFD....it's the same thing as the Hell storyline which means it will amount to fuck all.  I knew it. We all knew it.  It's so damn predictably bait and switch for Jensen/Dean fans.

The second we learned that the story was going to be told via flashbacks was it for me.

All aspects of the writing for this show have become nothing but predictable and especially so under Dabb and Singer.

[Lemuria]

I read at the recent con, Misha said that Cas was the one trying the hardest to get Dean back.  Dean fans may not be the only ones unhappy with the Mean situation.

[Myrelle]

2 hours ago, Lemuria said:

I read at the recent con, Misha said that Cas was the one trying the hardest to get Dean back.  Dean fans may not be the only ones unhappy with the Mean situation.

That's what that one article made it sound like to me, too.

I'm also wondering if that whole Sam and Cas bonding thing in that one article wasn't just a smoke screen to divert a certain segment of this fandom from noticing that Cas would be showing more desperation than even his own blood family where it regards trying to get Dean back.  

[ster1]

Tweet from someone who attended today's early screening. I don't care if Sam gets showcased in the premiere. What I do mind is hearing that Jensen barely filmed for the first two episodes. Dabb stumbles on the most intriguing storyline in years and we barely get to see Jensen play the role? Such a shame.

Edited October 2, 2018 by ster1

[ILoveReading]

3 hours ago, Lemuria said:

I read at the recent con, Misha said that Cas was the one trying the hardest to get Dean back.  Dean fans may not be the only ones unhappy with the Mean situation.

In the 2nd episode the synopsis says that when Sam get a lead he, Bobby and Mary go investigate while Cas imparts some good advice to Jack.  So when things heat up it sounds like Cas stays home to baby sit the antichrist.  So it seems like he gives up quick.  But I guess Dean being gone give Cas that breathing room he needs to bond with Jack.

 

 

So much for Sam struggling without Dean.   Sounds like the premier is the Sam Winchester power hour.   My guess is that the real reason Michael was allowed to exist was to get Dean out of the picture so they could finally push Sam into that leadership role.  He needs that breathing room after all. 

During the Gold panel when talking about Michael, Jensen said it was (past tense) challenging.

It sounds like most of use predicted.  1-2 episodes of live Michael and a handful of flashbacks.

They started filming episode 8.  Jensen said he hasn't read anything about dealing with the aftermath.  Dean being effected is a given, but is it Jensen finding what isn't on the page or is it written in a script.  I know what my money is on.  It's not the writers that's for sure.  They have to be reminded angels have powers.  So i don't expect them to remember this might bring up Dean's PTSD from hell. 

But....wait for it....what we do get is woobie Jack having fainting spells because his body is having trouble adapting to not having its grace.  So that picture they posted the other day, what looked like a hospital.  It's more fussing over poor baby Jackikins. 

They go back to the Empty, but Misha isn't playing the empty keeper. 

My guess is they go to the empty to try and get Jack's grace back from Lucifer and end up releasing him.  Dabb/Singer/Buck/Lemming all call him their favorite to write for.  No way they allow Dean's sacrifice to stand and I'm guessing that Michael will end up in Pellegrino's meat suit. I even expect a line from Michael about being disappointed in his true vessel. 

This season doesn't sound like its going to be good for Dean fans.

8 minutes ago, ster1 said:

Tweet from someone who attended today's early screening. I don't care if Sam gets showcased in the premiere. What I do mind is hearing that Jensen barely filmed for the first two episodes. Dabb stumbles on the most intriguing storyline in years and we barely get to see Jensen play the role? Such a shame.

I remember a con during that took place during the filming of episode 5 or 6 and Jensen mentioned something to the effect that he was still struggling with the character.  I figured that was because he doesn't actually play him that much.  Seems like I was right.

[Lemuria]

So they are feeding all the fans—Sam fans, Cas fans, woobie Jack fans, Pellegrino/Lucifer fans, wayward boring tweens fans, Mary fans, Bobby fans—except Dean and/or JA fans. They really don’t seem to care if we stop watching. 

And why is fragile flower Jack fainting without his grace?  Cas lost his, Metatron lost his, even Lucifer lost virtually all of his—and none of them had fainting spells. With powers, he was as boring as vanilla ice cream with vanilla sauce. Without them, he’s still boring but now he’s also useless.  Yep, that’s certainly what I want to spend my time watching. 

And some people have wondered why we’re so negative. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Lemuria

[Myrelle]

2 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

So they are feeding all the fans—Sam fans, Cas fans, woobie Jack fans, Pellegrino/Lucifer fans, wayward boring tweens fans, Mary fans, Bobby fans—except Dean and/or JA fans. They really don’t seem to care if we stop watching. 

And why is fragile flower Jack fainting without his grace?  Cas lost his, Metatron lost his, even Lucifer lost virtually all of his—and none of them had fainting spells. With powers, he was as boring as vanilla ice cream with vanilla sauce. Without them, he’s still boring but now he’s also useless.  Yep, that’s certainly what I want to spend my time watching. 

And some people have wondered why we’re so negative. 

Yeah. this sure does seem to be the way things are headed.

 

1 hour ago, ster1 said:

I don't care if Sam gets showcased in the premiere. What I do mind is hearing that Jensen barely filmed for the first two episodes. Dabb stumbles on the most intriguing storyline in years and we barely get to see Jensen play the role? Such a shame.

It makes no sense whatsoever unless there's some kind of BTS nonsense going on. That's all I got.

I wish I knew a Deanfan who had attended the sneak peek.

[Res]

2 hours ago, Myrelle said:

That's what that one article made it sound like to me, too.

I'm also wondering if that whole Sam and Cas bonding thing in that one article wasn't just a smoke screen to divert a certain segment of this fandom from noticing that Cas would be showing more desperation than even his own blood family where it regards trying to get Dean back.  

Sounds about par. At least someone is looking for Dean this time, right?

[Myrelle]

1 minute ago, Res said:

Sounds about par. At least someone is looking for Dean this time, right?

Yeah, but ILoveReading is right. It sounds like when it's time for the big heroics in ep. 2 it will be Sam, Mary, and Bobby to the rescue while Cas babysits Jack. I guess they feel that MC is only good enough for the emo, too.

These first few episodes now just sound like a disaster waiting to happen. Oy vey...

[gonzosgirrl]

So I can skip the premiere? Good to know.

Somebody will clip Michael's scenes, I'm sure.

[Res]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So I can skip the premiere? Good to know.

Somebody will clip Michael's scenes, I'm sure.

That's my impression. According to the above tweets, the only Michael scene is probably the one used at the SDCC. As per usual, they use JA to advertise and promote the series then give everyone else the storylines. SSDD.

14 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Yeah, but ILoveReading is right. It sounds like when it's time for the big heroics in ep. 2 it will be Sam, Mary, and Bobby to the rescue while Cas babysits Jack. I guess they feel that MC is only good enough for the emo, too.

These first few episodes now just sound like a disaster waiting to happen. Oy vey...

I'd rather have Cas do the big heroics, especially if he's been doing all the leg work previously. IMHO the other 3 don't deserve the save, especially Mobby. 

[Myrelle]

29 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So I can skip the premiere? Good to know.

Somebody will clip Michael's scenes, I'm sure.

I'm sure they will, too. Both of them. 

I might volunteer to work Thursday(although the thought of there "beeing infuriating things, too" as per that post above might mean something halfway decent).

Edited October 2, 2018 by Myrelle

[Res]

50 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I might volunteer to work Thursday(although the thought of there "beeing infuriating things, too" as per that post above might mean something halfway decent).

Might but I doubt it. Dabb and Singer have made me very negative about this show unfortunately.

[devlin]

Wow they are really pushing the sam show. At least I get my Monday nights back again coz I have no desire to watch the sam show that they are promoting.

[devlin]

Also gotta say Jared and the rest of his show are so lucky that they have Jensen. He is the one that did the entire promotion  by himself at comic con after Jared had a mental health day

[ILoveReading]

8 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I might volunteer to work Thursday(although the thought of there "beeing infuriating things, too" as per that post above might mean something halfway decent).

I'm not sure.  Because if this is the one I think it is, she's a brother's fan who likes it when Dean revolves around Sam.  So most likely the infuriating thing is that Dean isnt' there pimping Sam and telling him what a brave, strong, precious little leader he is, and that brothers arent' attached at the hip.  

Plus, there is apparently a line that someone says to Cas about Dean they don't like.  Since Dean can only have Sam in his life, that would infuriate them.  I wouldn't put any hopes on that. 

[Bobcatkitten]

I'm still psyched for the premiere. Trying not to get too bothered until I actually see it. I have high hopes. (I'm at eternal optimist)

[ILoveReading]

I'm taking back the credit I gave Dabb about the AU hunters wanting Dean dead.   I don't think its part of Dabb trying to tell a good story.  I think he did it so Sam could speechify and convince them all to follow him to save Dean.  I think its all about pushing leader Sam and nothing else. 

Did I mention how much Dabb sucks and how much I loath him.

[ster1]

After 10 minutes of Purgatory and 3 episodes of Demon Dean, I guess a flyby Michael storyline was to be expected. But this is even worse than before. We barely see Michael before Dean is hurriedly rescued and the story jumps to Wayward Sisters in episode 3.  At least Demon Dean was cut short for the 200th episode "love letter to the fans". I still thought it was stupid but, hey, at least Dean was in the episode. But Dean-Michael only lasting 2 episodes just so Berens and Dabb can play with their failed spinoff is beyond infuriating.  There was absolutely no reason to bring back Wayward this early.

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, ster1 said:

After 10 minutes of Purgatory and 3 episodes of Demon Dean, I guess a flyby Michael storyline was to be expected. But this is even worse than before. We barely see Michael before Dean is hurriedly rescued and the story jumps to Wayward Sisters in episode 3.  At least Demon Dean was cut short for the 200th episode "love letter to the fans". I still thought it was stupid but, hey, at least Dean was in the episode. But Dean-Michael only lasting 2 episodes just so Berens and Dabb can play with their failed spinoff is beyond infuriating.  There was absolutely no reason to bring back Wayward this early.

Kim and Briana were tweeting about something regarding wayward but didn't say what it was.  Maybe they were hoping to write another back door pilot to try and push the spin off again.   They would need Dean around to pimp out the characters and tell them how great they are. 

[ster1]

11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Kim and Briana were tweeting about something regarding wayward but didn't say what it was.  Maybe they were hoping to write another back door pilot to try and push the spin off again.   They would need Dean around to pimp out the characters and tell them how great they are. 

Based on the previous episodes, it's pretty much a given that the brothers will be out of character and incompetent to prop up the Wayward bunch. So yeah, I'm sure Dabb needs Dean around for that.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm taking back the credit I gave Dabb about the AU hunters wanting Dean dead.   I don't think its part of Dabb trying to tell a good story.  I think he did it so Sam could speechify and convince them all to follow him to save Dean.  I think its all about pushing leader Sam and nothing else. 

Did I mention how much Dabb sucks and how much I loath him.

Leader!Sam-and as a follow-up, yet another attempt to turn Sam into Dean-is the big story of this season, IMO; and, I'm betting that JP will have the Michael storyline equally(or more so) as much as JA  now has it, and in a very similar manner to how JA now has it, by the end of this season. That's my spec for the end of this season. And i further think that the speechifying is part of that attempt to turn Sam into a more Dean-like character. And we all know what the problem is there. And if the speechifying is anything like that one Sam delivered in the S12 finale all I can say is Oy vey. Again.

 

50 minutes ago, ster1 said:

After 10 minutes of Purgatory and 3 episodes of Demon Dean, I guess a flyby Michael storyline was to be expected. But this is even worse than before. We barely see Michael before Dean is hurriedly rescued and the story jumps to Wayward Sisters in episode 3.  At least Demon Dean was cut short for the 200th episode "love letter to the fans". I still thought it was stupid but, hey, at least Dean was in the episode. But Dean-Michael only lasting 2 episodes just so Berens and Dabb can play with their failed spinoff is beyond infuriating.  There was absolutely no reason to bring back Wayward this early.

Yeah, my blood is boiling over this right now. It's ridiculous.

 

29 minutes ago, ster1 said:

Based on the previous episodes, it's pretty much a given that the brothers will be out of character and incompetent to prop up the Wayward bunch. So yeah, I'm sure Dabb needs Dean around for that.

IKR. Ugh, Ugh, and UGH!! to even just the thought of the kind of crap that episode 3 could hold right now.

[ILoveReading]

I'll never buy Sam as a leader.  He's a follower and he always has been.  He happily trot off after anyone who tells him what he wants to hear, flatters him or dangles something shiny in his face.  

22 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Leader!Sam-and as a follow-up, yet another attempt to turn Sam into Dean-is the big story of this season,

They are even using a lot of the same wording they did in season 6 and talking about how Sam is going to take on Dean's role.  But I highly doubt Dean will return to that role when everything is all said and done.

 

22 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I'm betting that JP will have the Michael storyline equally(or more so) as much as JA  now has it, and in a very similar manner to how JA now has it, by the end of this season

I predict this too. 

I expect some sort of spell will get rid of Michael,

Given what we learned this weekend that the writers haven't addressed Dean's PTSD (Dean is shoving it down, is code for "its not in any scripts).  I'm thinking that BTS pic we saw of Dean's messy room is just going to be more of Perez viewing Dean as a slob rather than being related to Deans' story.

Yes, I'm extremely bitter at the moment.  

Edited October 2, 2018 by ILoveReading
edited because I I think I crossed the line into bitch/jerk

[Pondlass1]

Well, we were going to get the Waywards come hell or high water.  The teen girl hunters plus woobie Jack are what Dabb & Co think audiences want.  And maybe they do.  The viewer demographic has changed over the years to a younger and much less sophisticated and demanding group (IMO I don't have stats of course - just going by tweets and con questions).

Expect more dad bod jokes, etc.  I was hoping they'd acknowledge Dean's 40th birthday, but now I'm not so keen.  It could just be another opportunity to make digs at aging Dean who don't know nothing bout nothing these days, just pass the beer and pie.

I think we're all pretty bitter right now.  

[ahrtee]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I'll never buy Sam as a leader.  He's a follower and he always has been.  He happily trot off after anyone who tells him what he wants to hear, flatters him or dangles something shiny in his face.  

The opposite of leader is *not* follower.  Sam has never followed anyone (even Dean or John) blindly, especially when he thinks he's right.  So trying to make him look weak because he didn't lead others is bull.  Not everyone has the temperament to lead, and it's not the ultimate success.  Hunters (or hunting) by nature are solitary and independent, not leaders *or* followers.

OTOH, if, as others have pointed out, Sam's always been wrong whenever he's gone against the others and done his own thing, why in hell would anyone want to follow him?  All they'd have to do is make a list of his wrong/stupid decisions and show the others. :)  

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Pondlass1 said:

Expect more dad bod jokes, etc.  I was hoping they'd acknowledge Dean's 40th birthday, but now I'm not so keen.  It could just be another opportunity to make digs at aging Dean who don't know nothing bout nothing these days, just pass the beer and pie.

This is why I'd rather they go a different route for the 300th.  I don't want an episode where we see the people of Sam and Dean's home town show us their impressions.  Written by Dabb, directed by Singer I expect it will super polite, smart helpful Sam assisting little old ladies across the street while Dean will be viewed as the town drunk who lears at college girls.

[ILoveReading]

26 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

The opposite of leader is *not* follower.  Sam has never followed anyone (even Dean or John) blindly, especially when he thinks he's right.  So trying to make him look weak because he didn't lead others is bull.  Not everyone has the temperament to lead, and it's not the ultimate success.  Hunters (or hunting) by nature are solitary and independent, not leaders *or* followers.

OTOH, if, as others have pointed out, Sam's always been wrong whenever he's gone against the others and done his own thing, why in hell would anyone want to follow him?  All they'd have to do is make a list of his wrong/stupid decisions and show the others. :)  

Moving response to unpopular opinions try try and explain myself better as to why I think Sam is a follower.

Edited October 2, 2018 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

48 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Well, we were going to get the Waywards come hell or high water.  The teen girl hunters plus woobie Jack are what Dabb & Co think audiences want.  And maybe they do.  The viewer demographic has changed over the years to a younger and much less sophisticated and demanding group (IMO I don't have stats of course - just going by tweets and con questions).

There was an interview that Dabb gave, I think during  SDCC, wherein he said they had to make SPN less complicated (as if it were all that complicated now). To me that is basically him saying they are dumbing down the show.  IMO, it's code for less mythology more Soapernatural.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/supernatural/news/a864192/supernatural-season-14-short-season-episodes-reduced/
 

Quote

As for how a shorter run of episodes might affect Supernatural's storytelling, the writing team have hinted at "more concise" plotting and a new approach to how the show approaches its larger story arc.

"From what I can gather, some of the fan complaints are that occasionally some of the episodes [in previous seasons] felt disjointed,"* Buckner said. "They don't feel like they're part of the whole tapestry, and I think there'll be less of that this year."

"We have to be a little less complex in our mythology," added Supernatural showrunner Andrew Dabb. "Which isn't always a bad thing."**

 

LOL.

*The utter irony of Buckner talking about disjointed episodes (from prior seasons). DUDE, it's you and your writing partner who have written the MOST DISJOINTED and CANON and CHARACTER destroying episodes than just about anyone in the show leaves me cold.

**Um, yeah, Andrew...IT IS bad when you dumb down the show, dumb down characters ....

Argh.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

**Um, yeah, Andrew...IT IS bad when you dumb down the show, dumb down characters ....

Just look at how he presents himself in on-camera interviews and at cons - tells me all I need to know about him.

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, ahrtee said:

The opposite of leader is *not* follower.  Sam has never followed anyone (even Dean or John) blindly, especially when he thinks he's right.  So trying to make him look weak because he didn't lead others is bull.  Not everyone has the temperament to lead, and it's not the ultimate success.  Hunters (or hunting) by nature are solitary and independent, not leaders *or* followers.

Thank you!

I want to go off on a tirade (in agreement) without having to worry if it goes into questionable territory, so I'm going to move the rest of this over to "Bitch vs Jerk," but I just wanted to agree with this here. And wish I could like your post a bunch of times.

And considering I'm not as optimistic as everyone else that this "Sam as leader" thing is actually going to be presented as a good thing in season 14 - and I think season 13 showed pretty well that the odds are against it - the "Sam is weak/lazy/etc. because he isn't a leader" message is even more annoying. This Sam fan doesn't want Sam to be a leader and act more like Dean, and I resent it when the show insinuates that he should be otherwise he's somehow lesser.

As I've hinted at before, I already went through something similar lately with Carl from The Walking Dead who was changed from a long-standing character who would kill in defense of his family and extended family and wasn't one who would suffer fools or suffer someone who didn't deserve to be trusted to a character who supposedly "saw the light" and started spouting some "everyone deserves a chance" crap. And then they killed Carl. In an entirely stupid way. His final legacy being that "everyone deserves a chance" crap to justify the not-killing of a completely vile character (who should have been killed over a season ago, but the show apparently completely loves him.)

And now I'm supposed to see some change in Sam to leader as a good thing, and all these previous years he was just holding back, being lazy, being weak, or a loser? Screw that! I know what I've been watching for 11 previous seasons, and Sam being comfortable as a leader isn't it. And I like him that way. I relate to that. It doesn't make him some kind of loser. That I am not confident that they will pull it off - or even want to... because if the end of season 13 was supposed to be showing me Sam as a leader, um, I think they did it wrong - is even more concerning for me. Because not only will the message look like Sam is weak for not being the leader, but that he can't actually be a leader anyway, because he's bad at it.

Okay, I think I did kind of tirade there, but it's spoilers, and hopefully okay for this thread.

2 hours ago, ahrtee said:

OTOH, if, as others have pointed out, Sam's always been wrong whenever he's gone against the others and done his own thing, why in hell would anyone want to follow him?  All they'd have to do is make a list of his wrong/stupid decisions and show the others. :) 

Heh. I wish I didn't agree with this, but lately I do. And it again pisses me off. Oops - almost went off on another rant... I'll move this to the "B vs J" thread, too. ; )