A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[Mathius]

(Both of August's centrics made the list, lol!)

 

Aw, but I liked "The Stranger". (Screw the other one, though...not even gonna name it, we all know what it is.)

[KingOfHearts]

 

Aw, but I liked "The Stranger". (Screw the other one, though...not even gonna name it, we all know what it is.)

It's not so much I hated August in it or anything. It's that Gepetto wardrobe retcon I can't stand. I'm still mad at him to this day.

Edited April 15, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

I made a list pairing my favorite episode and least favorite episode of each arc. I probably won't share it until the end of S5, since I'd like to reserve my judgement for 5B. However, I did find interesting patterns. The worst episodes always seem to be mid-arc and centered around a side character. (Both of August's centrics made the list, lol!) Examples include The Bear and the Bow, Breaking Glass, and Child of the Moon. The pattern for the best episodes isn't as cemented, but typically they're game changers or centrics for the best guest stars. (Such as The Miller's Daughter or Sympathy for the DeVil.) Just my personal opinions.

I've got analyzing this show down to a science.

Oooh! This sounds interesting! Can't wait to hear more. :P

My least favorite episodes originate mostly from the middle of the arcs too. Favorite episodes, on the other hand, wildly vary.

[Curio]

It probably doesn't reflect well on Adam & Eddy that several of my least favorite episodes are penned by them...

[YaddaYadda]

It probably doesn't reflect well on Adam & Eddy that several of my least favorite episodes are penned by them...

 

Same here. Things really went downhill in season 4. When I look at the list of episodes, and who wrote what, I didn't even hate the majority of the episodes.

 

I think generally speaking, the ideas they come up with like Operation Mongoose bug the hell out of me because they're really good at shooting themselves in the foot.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Oooh! This sounds interesting! Can't wait to hear more. :P

I will probably expand it a bit to look at writers, centrics, etc. to find more patterns.

 

 

It probably doesn't reflect well on Adam & Eddy that several of my least favorite episodes are penned by them...

You know what's sad? Many of their episodes are on my best lists. I don't know what to think of that. However, it's probably because they get to write the more pivotal episodes.

 

I discovered most of the episodes I don't like are written by Andrew Chambliss or Kalinda Vazquez. (And in earlier seasons, Ian Goldberg, who was often paired with Chambliss.)

Edited April 15, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[maryle]

Well I must say I read all the post since I dare to gave my opinion and I felt unwelcome so I am sorry if I do believe that this arc up to this point is pretty forgivable to me.

Opinion that still çan change with up coming episode but if some opinion have more Wright than others had was not gaving the memo.

And my critism have nothing to do with the fact they still in the Underw old but with what the characters do or not do while being there.

2) because ofthe writer choose to focus on something we saw a gonzillion of time instead of the feud betweem Hades and Olympus with his love story on the side if Hades must have one.

3) the make every one worst of the worst trend going on is really so redundant now. I am afread that in Firefird the woman that mentor Emma will be real mother of Hitler and will be ending responsable for gave him the idea of the Holocaust.

For me all opinion are egal et will represent personnal preferrance of subject traitement and character that people love more so consensus is Probably impossible to achieve but each should feels welcome to express it.

[RadioGirl27]

You are not alone maryle, and you are more than welcome to give your opinion. As I have said before I'm not a fan of this half season. I find it underwhelming and, for the most part, boring. And my problem is not that they are still in the UW, it is that they are not advancing the story, just adding more and more unnecessary stuff. Because Hell Witch is unnecessary and so is this week's episode.

Edited April 15, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[HoodlumSheep]

I like this season too. I do think it lacks something in the pizazz department, I guess you could call it, but it's certainly not the worst season out there. That might forever go to 4b (in my opinion).

[KAOS Agent]

I've found 5B to be fairly bland. I don't like it all that much, but it's not rage inducing either, so it's less offensive than previous arcs. While there are pieces that I find interesting, no episode has grabbed me enough to be really enjoyable. "Devil's Due" is the only episode that I might consider rewatching at some point.

 

In S1 we got flashbacks with one off characters, but those stories tied in well with the main characters in the present and generally helped to move the story forward. 5B is a centric in both the past and the present with the characters not interacting with anyone other than the guest. Even though the Hook centric had Liam presumably working with the mains, there was no real interaction with them. They just happened to be in the scene with him looking for the book. Regina's episode was pretty much exclusively her and Henry. The Snow episode featured a bit more interaction, but we had no previous introduction to Hercules, so his interacting with others didn't really matter anyway. These all have the feel of one off episodes and since they aren't particularly entertaining to me, it's making for a pretty lackluster season.

Edited April 16, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

5B's character development is on a very individual basis. That may be why they seem so ineffective. It's not about the characters interacting with each other, but rather characters interacting the people from their own pasts. (The only exception might be the Belle centric with Rumple.) If the centric is for a main or regular character, the dead person of the week only gets substantial interactions with whoever it's for. For example, Hook couldn't meet Milah because it was really about Rumple. With Liam, however, the centric was about him, so the other characters didn't matter as much.

 

While 3A was about the Nevengers working together, 5B is more about them working separately. The restrictive centric formula gives birth to plot holes like why none of them could help with Cerberus or why Snow hasn't mentioned her parents.

Edited April 16, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I was wondering if Belle and Rumple are going to be in their own little bubble for the next few episodes.  I don't see how they can show Belle talking to any of the other characters about the Rumple situation.  Unlike Regina's redemption tour (even though it was poorly done), at least past the Season 4 premiere, she didn't seem to be reverting anymore.  Rumple JUST betrayed everyone.  And he's not even pretending to want to change his ways, even to Belle.  Baby or not, I don't see how any of the characters could tell Belle that she should stay with Rumple.  If Belle participates as the resident librarian as usual, then it would be the elephant in the room.

 

If Belle is a decent person, she should also be feeling guilty about Gaston.  But if they have that, how can they also have her just staying with Rumple at the Shop?  Since what she ended up doing was a completely different issue from Rumple trying to go behind her back to murder Gaston.  I know a lot of people liked Belle admitting she liked Rumple's bad bits too, but a little darkness is different from murdering someone with glee or being completely dismissive about having killed someone.  That's just psychopathic.  

 

The Writers did a horrible job of setting up a believable scenario for this.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Camera One

[Mari]

If Belle is a decent person, she should also be feeling guilty about Gaston.  But if they have that, how can they also have her just staying with Rumple at the Shop?  Since what she ended up doing was a completely different issue from Rumple trying to go behind her back to murder Gaston.  I know a lot of people liked Belle admitting she liked Rumple's bad bits too, but a little darkness is different from murdering someone with glee or being completely dismissive about having killed someone.  That's just psychopathic.  

Well, she mostly seemed to be angry at Rumple that she'd done it, and annoyed that Hades didn't honor the bargain that she refused to consider, even though Belle sending Gaston into the river wasn't what Hades had asked for, anyway.

 

I think we have our answer.

 

I'm going with "No.  Not a decent person.  Possibly psychopathic."

[Rumsy4]

She says she would have been okay if they had gotten out of the contract with Hades. That doesn't say much for Belle...

[Mathius]

And the "when are they gonna get out of here and back to Storybrooke" whining is back, just as it was in 3A.

 

Seriously, what is the appeal of Storybrooke anymore?  Especially given the godawful Storybrooke side of things in 4B and 5A?  It's a lifeless town where all anyone ever does is run around frantically while trying to fight invading evil forces. At least in the Underworld, we are FINALLY getting conversation scenes and character development that so many people have been begging for over the past two years. The show could stay in the Underworld permanently and I wouldn't care. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

Yeah. Going back to Storybrooke is not going to make the middle episodes drag any less than usual. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Mari]

True.

 

Apart from the red filter, the problem isn't Underbrooke; it's what the writers are choosing to focus on in Underbrooke.   Was anyone really desperate to see Hades have blue hair and fall in love with Zelena, or watch Regina make amends to the horse she killed?

[Mathius]

Exactly. People should complain about the events and say that they want better stuff to happen, rather than say "can we leave the Underworld now" as if the Underworld itself is somehow the problem and as if events in Storybrooke would be any better.  We have had more than enough time (two years worth of time) for it to be proven that they wouldn't be.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mathius

[Camera One]

I am glad we're still in the Underworld.  I think there is still much to explore.  And even if we're back in Storybrooke, it'll probably be the same old thing.  Hades vs. everyone else.  

 

If anything, the Underworld offers more variety in locations, characters and interactions than Neverland, so we could stay even longer.

[Rumsy4]

The main characters are interacting with more recurring characters than in the past 3 seasons. That alone makes Underbrooke a better location than Storybrooke.

[Camera One]

We all agree this show's got 99 problems, but LOL at this article: "12 Steps to Get Once Upon a Time Back To Basics".

http://zap2it.com/2016/04/once-upon-a-time-season-5-rehab-12-steps-get-back-to-basics/

 

More like 12 Random Things Random Blogger Wants To Say.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Replying in Writers.

Edited April 18, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Dianthus]

So far, Devil's Due is my favorite ep of the season, despite what happened to Milah.

I understand why they went with the blue hair for Hades, but since the actor has coppery red hair, I think that would look at least somewhat less ridiculous, and work really well with fire/flame.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm not sure what my favorite episode is so far. I liked Devil's Due and Our Decay. I'd say my least favorite episode was Her Handsome Hero for sure, though.

Edited April 19, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Dianthus]

yeah, that one pretty much sux ass.

[Mathius]

"Her Handsome Hero" was almost completely unnecessary.  Even "Ruby Slippers" at least had Snow and Belle getting written out of the action as an important plot element. You could cut "Her Handsome Hero" and miss nothing.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Mathius

[HoodlumSheep]

I think Devil's Due is the strongest episode (at least writing-wise) so far, but it's not my favorite. Labor of Love and Our Decay are my favorites.

I don't know which episode I like least: the 100th or Her Handsome Hero. The 100th was soooo botig and the only thing that I remember about the episode is that Henry Sr. basically pulled a Mufasa. Her Handsome Hero...I liked the b plot and Gaston's actor. Poor Gaston. :(

It's a toss up between those two.

[RadioGirl27]

I still have nightmares with Lana's terrible over the top performance in the flashback in the 100th episode, so that one gets my vote as worst of this half season. I don't really have a favourite episode, maybe Labor of Love.

[KingOfHearts]

While I don't like most the 100th episode, I did like seeing the dead characters and Regina helping Henry Sr. move on. The flashbacks were terrible, but after watching subsequent episodes, I believe it did positively affect Regina. So while it's one of my least favorites, it's not as bad as Her Handsome Hero. I didn't like the flashbacks or the present day in that one.

Edited April 19, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Dianthus]

The only thing good about Her Handsome Hero (IMO) was the scene where both (both!) Hook and Snow were being supportive of Emma. Thinking about it, Hook and Emma both know privation: what it's like to grow up without your parents, too much uncertainty, hunger, cold, and fear. Despite being from very different backgrounds, their shared life experience bonds them together. Snow has a bit of that too, from her time on the run, and even Charmz (a peasant before he was prince).

[Camera One]

Snow has a bit of that too, from her time on the run, and even Charmz (a peasant before he was prince).

 

Realistically, Snow has a bunch of other past stressors that should be affecting her, from being given the choice of letting your mother die or let someone else die and living with the choice, to learning that both parents were murdered,   Too bad none of those wounds were ever really explored.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Camera One

[andromeda331]

Realistically, Snow has a bunch of other past stressors that should be affecting her, from being given the choice of letting your mother die or let someone else die and living with the choice, to learning that both parents were murdered,   Too bad none of those wounds were ever really explored.

Being forced to send her baby daughter away and stuck in a curse for 28 years while her husband was in

a coma. Then after he woke up was married to someone else. Having the curse being broken and seeing

her now full grown daughter. And the fact she missed out on everything, and her daughter has had a very

troubled life. There's so much they could have done with Snow that they didn't do.

[Mathius]

Right, but there's a good reason for that....if they DID all that stuff, it would mean acknowledging that Regina wrought irreparable damage upon Snow's life, and then their super-close, super-touching relationship would just seem weird. See, it's far better to treat it like water under the bridge and no big deal (Y'know, like in 5x13...."And then you found her!")

Edited April 20, 2016 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

When we were pondering in the Rumple thread whether Rumple would be the ultimate final season Big Bad, I started thinking about who else was left, and then I started thinking about what stories had been used and how, and I ended up seeing some patterns. So, here's a bit of analysis, arc by arc.

I'm distinguishing between a name drop -- just calling a character by a fairy tale name without really using the story -- and actually using the story. I'm doing this off the top of my head without even looking at the episode listings, so I'm sure I'm missing some stuff.

All of Season One was based on Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, fleshing out the backstory of the enmity between the Evil Queen and Snow White, showing more of their battle, and showing what happens next. For characters, we had Snow White, the Evil Queen, the Huntsman, the Dwarfs, and the magic mirror. The other Disney property that got used pretty heavily was Pinocchio, using Gepetto, Jiminy Cricket/Archie, Pinocchio/August, and the Blue Fairy. I think they delved more into the actual Pinocchio story in season two, but it's still pretty key here, to the point that it really matters that these are the characters from the story. They also used Beauty and the Beast, with Rumple as the Beast, Belle, Maurice, and Gaston, but in this season it was only relevant for one episode. Cinderella also came into play, with Cinderella and her Prince and hints about her stepmother. The story was just used in one episode, but it did do some important setup with the deal Emma made to help Ashley/Cinderella keep her baby. We got some Alice in Wonderland with the backstory of the Mad Hatter and introduction of the Queen of Hearts (that we didn't yet know was Cora).

Other fairy tales and stories used were Hansel and Gretel, King Midas, and Little Red Riding Hood. Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty was a namedrop, as in this season it didn't matter all that much who she was. Rumpelstiltskin himself was something of a namedrop in this season, as his actual fairy tale didn't come into play until later. I guess we also had the hint at The 101 Dalmatians with Pongo.

Neither arc in season two was based heavily on any one story, Disney or otherwise. There was also a lot more character namedropping than actually using the stories. They did do Jack and the Beanstalk in a couple of places, with Emma and Hook acting out a similar story and then the background with Jack and James. We finally got the Rumpelstiltskin story about him helping the miller's daughter. There was Cora as Queen of Hearts in Wonderland, but that was more of a namedrop because in this series it didn't matter all that much that this was who she was. That was more of a factor in the spinoff. They used the Frankenstein story in a way that fit into the overall plot (with Regina's hope of reviving Daniel). They picked up on the Pinocchio story, using that to set up his ongoing struggle with doing the right thing and how that ended up affecting Emma. Otherwise, Mulan was a namedrop (she could have been any warrior woman). Aurora got kissed awake, but otherwise her role could have been any princess. Robin Hood and Maid Marian made their first cameo appearance in a way that had little to do with the Robin Hood story. Lancelot was a namedrop (that creates all kinds of timeline issues later). For most of the season, Hook could have been the Dread Pirate BlueEyes without changing much of anything. At the very end of the season, they started really using the Peter Pan story, introducing the Darlings and the Shadow that took children to Neverland, with Bae meeting Captain Hook there.

3A was based on Peter Pan, and although the Neverland setting and the characters were specific to the plot, I never really felt like they used the original story to a real extent, not like the way they built upon the Snow White story in season one. There was more story content in the last two episodes of season 2 than in the Neverland arc. They also brought in Disney's version of The Little Mermaid in a crossover that I thought was pretty clever, given that there were mermaids in the Peter Pan story. It makes sense for one of them to be Ariel. Although I wasn't crazy about the episode, I liked the way they made Pan the Pied Piper. That works for me, that Pan would be stealing children like that. They namedropped Excalibur, Robin Hood (well, not by name then), and Medusa.

3B was The Wizard of Oz, with the Wicked Witch, the Wizard, Dorothy, the flying monkeys, and Glinda showing up, though for all they used Oz they may as well have made Zelena be any random witch. They used Ariel again and namedropped Blackbeard. Robin Hood showed up as a character, but it's a namedrop, as his actual story never comes into play. They used the fairy tale Rapunzel in a one-off.

4A was Frozen meets The Snow Queen, with a dash of The Sorcerer's Apprentice., and all those stories were used extensively. Bo Peep made an appearance in a way that didn't quite use her story but that was more than a mere namedrop (the flashbacks were awful, but the idea of Evil Warlord Bo Peep was brilliant).

4B wasn't based on a particular story. It incorporated Cruella in a way that kind of used her story (with a twist). I still feel like Maleficent was a namedrop -- a shortcut used to make the character familiar without having to develop her, as they never did anything with her actual story. With Ursula, they used the Ariel story from the movie, with Poseidon in the Triton role. They used some elements from the Pinocchio story (using his nose growing during interrogation was pretty clever). Did they bring in any other stories?

5A was an "original" story, not based on anything in particular, for the Dark One plot, and they used some of the King Arthur mythology around it, with Merlin and Nimue as the background for the Dark One, and using other characters like Arthur Guinevere, Lancelot, and Percival. They brought in elements of the Brave story (while apparently missing the point of that movie).

In 5B they're mostly using the Disney Hercules, with Hades and the Underworld creating the primary setting and conflict. They brought back some of the Beauty and the Beast stuff, as well as some of the Wizard of Oz stuff, with Dorothy.

What seems to be the pattern is that the arcs that are based on an actual story generally work better, while they don't do quite as well when they're just throwing elements together in an "original" story, and the more they use the story, the better it works. I also think they do better when they focus on one main story basis and weave in the other tales as they intersect rather than going all kitchen sink with it (the Queens of Darkness). One reason season one worked as well as it did may have been that it felt so textured, with so many of the stories coming into play, though it would have been hard to sustain that, as they'd already told the stories of most of the recurring characters by the second season, so they didn't have as much to work with later. On the other hand, even with new characters in later seasons, they tended to be namedrops rather than really using their stories, and they seemed to have lost interest in using the fairy tale aspects of the regulars, to the point that they just happen to have the same names as those characters.

[HoodlumSheep]

Rumple seems like the only one who could really work as a final big bad at this point because of how he's in so many of the stories (either in the background or the forefront). 

At this point A&E would have to switch to a season long story arc with one main villain to make it believable that he or she would be the ultimate big bad. Because if they try to introduce a villain for only a half arc and try to claim that a bad guy that only sticks around for 10/11 episodes is the final big bad...it's not going to work very well in my opinion. 

And about the namedropping...I see what you mean with some of the characters practically being an average joe with a disney charcter's name tacked-on. 

And this is incredibly random, but:

I still wonder about poor Lancelot. He probably returned from seeing his mom (or bringing her), only to find everyone gone. I found myself thinking about this today fr whatever reason.

Now I'm getting off track. 

About the name-dropping: yeah, I see where you're coming from about the characters @Shanna Marie

Edited April 29, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Rumple seems like the only one who could really work as a final big bad at this point because of how he's in so many of the stories (either in the background or the forefront).

Yeah, it's hard to think of what else they could do, unless they come up with some massive villain that requires Rumple to really side with the heroes once and for all. Otherwise (and this is where my fairy tale analysis by season came from), there aren't that many iconic villains left to work with. We've got Snow White's evil queen (redeemed), Maleficent (redeemed by motherhood), the Queen of Hearts (dead, redeemed), Hansel and Gretel's witch (dead), Gaston (dead, dead again), Captain Hook (redeemed, temporarily dead), Ursula (not really that villainous, redeemed), the Snow Queen (redeemed, dead), the Wicked Witch (currently redeemed), Hades (currently in play), Hans (defeated), Cruella (dead), and then in a twist (as he's not the villain of his original story) Pan (dead).

About the only iconic villains left in play (not dead or redeemed) or who haven't appeared are animals like Monstro the whale, Sher Khan the tiger, and Scar the lion, or else are non-magical and therefore not much of a threat, like Prince John (from Robin Hood), Blackbeard, and Cinderella's stepmother. So for the final season, either we get Rumple as the ultimate Big Bad, they stretch from somewhere else, make up someone entirely new, or Blackbeard and Cinderella's stepmother are going to team up and have some magical object that suddenly gives them great power.

[Curio]

I'd love for Jafar and Rumple to team up as the ultimate Big Bad Power Duo for the final season. But I doubt they'll be able to lock down Naveen Andrews.

[Shanna Marie]

Oh, I forgot Jafar. They did use him in the spinoff, and last we saw him, he's a genie. It could be interesting if Rumple were the one to find his lamp and free him, so that the Dark One had his own genie, who was also an evil sorcerer in his own right.

In general, they seem to have burned through the good villains early and now have to scramble. Maleficent should have had her own arc that was not only about whatever happened to her more recently, but that also got into her backstory with Stefan and Briar Rose that led to her cursing Aurora and Philip, and that dealt with Aurora in the present. It's weird that Aurora's apparently in town and we never got to see her reaction to Maleficent showing up again. From what we saw, Maleficent cursed her out of spite and anger at her parents, not for anything she'd done, so she was a totally innocent victim. Then her friends were running around trying to help the person who cursed her, and Maleficent is counted as redeemed without any interaction with or amends to her victim.

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't want Jafar on ouat. I loved him on ouatiw and I feel like it's turned into a natural reflex of mine to say "no" to Jafar appearing at this point. Not after what happened to Will/Anastasia. I don't want A&E to touch my Wonderland bbys.

I don't want Jafar to be inevitably nerfed. He was evil, effective and he actually got crap done compared to most of the villains on Once who end up standing around making vague threats (but do nothing) for 75% of their screen time.

i'll take Aladdin and Jasmine though. Maybe they could do the King of Thieves storyline instead. Then they could big back King Midas (and Abigail) for a cameo somehow.

They could still potentially bring in real Ursula for a villain, but she wouldn't do for a final villain.

Actually, I think Nimue had a little potential for final big bad before she went hive mind and was seemingly destroyed forever??? Or I guess her spirit would still be stuck in the dagger? Caroline Ford had charisma.

now I wish we'd see her or Merlin in the UW. :(

Edited April 29, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Curio]

13 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Then her friends were running around trying to help the person who cursed her, and Maleficent is counted as redeemed without any interaction with or amends to her victim.

Since when has any villain on this show needed to make amends to their victim(s) in order to become "redeemed"?

[HoodlumSheep]

I still want the Horned King as a villain on this show. He'd be good for a final villain. One of my (now debunked) crack theories was that he would have made a great Original Dark One, but now...

switch out Dark One for Dark Curse and it could still work. Have him be the original maker of the Dark Curse. Heck, there's even a convenient cauldron that could be used to brew the curse in. Heck, to make it even more twisty and dark, have him offer up his own heart for the spell as an ultimate act of revenge in a flashback. And now I'm getting off topic so I'll stop.

:P

i know it'll probably never happen, but I either want this or Rumple for final Big Bad at this point.

Edited April 29, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Curio]

I'm still holding out hope for Davy Jones. You don't just give a pirate the last name "Jones" and then not use it for anything significant. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by Curio

[HoodlumSheep]

9 minutes ago, Curio said:

I'm still holding out hope for Davy Jones. You don't just give a pirate a last name "Jones" and then not use it for anything significant. 

How would you like him and Hook to be related if it happened? An Uncle, grandparent, second cousin twice removed...father (middle name)? And I say father just because if they did that they could possibly get away with saying that him falling in love with voice was enough for TLK was a lie, and that maybe he isn't actually dead.

Edited April 29, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Curio]

17 minutes ago, HoodlumSheep said:

How would you like him and Hook to be related if it happened? An Uncle, grandparent, second cousin twice removed...father? And I say father just because if they did that they could possibly get away with saying that him falling in love with voice was enough for TLK was a lie, and that maybe he isn't actually dead.

I was really disappointed when they didn't follow up with Killian's father being Davy Jones. It would actually be a good retcon if he lied about the True Love's Kiss, because 1) It's ridiculous that anyone can TLK a person they've never even spoken to, but fell "truly" in love with their physical attributes, and 2) It would align with Brennan's douchey characterization. He lied to his sons, sold them into slavery, and named his do-over son Liam, so I could totally see him lying to Killian about the TLK to cover up for the fact that he's the immortal Davy Jones. It would also help put a bandaid over Hook leaving his half-brother an orphan because Brennan would still be alive and able to take care of him.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

48 minutes ago, Curio said:

Since when has any villain on this show needed to make amends to their victim(s) in order to become "redeemed"?

True, but usually at least the victim(s) agree about the villain being redeemed. The Charming family totally agrees on Regina's redemption, even though they were her primary targets and she's never apologized to them. Yeah, there were lots of other victims, but they aren't actual characters. But Maleficent is considered redeemed by Emma and her parents because she forgave them, and her other victims don't seem to get a vote, even though they're around and are named characters who have been somewhat recurring.

I know the writers have said in tweets/interviews that Brennan was telling the truth, but there's been no evidence yet on screen, so they still have wiggle room if they wanted to suddenly decide it was all a lie. My real vote is that it was an illusion created by Regina to test Hook and the whole story was fake, which still leaves room for Brennan's true identity to be Davy Jones, and the ring he passed on to Liam, who passed it on to Killian, really was keeping Killian alive against all odds all this time.

[RadioGirl27]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I know the writers have said in tweets/interviews that Brennan was telling the truth, but there's been no evidence yet on screen, so they still have wiggle room if they wanted to suddenly decide it was all a lie. My real vote is that it was an illusion created by Regina to test Hook and the whole story was fake, which still leaves room for Brennan's true identity to be Davy Jones, and the ring he passed on to Liam, who passed it on to Killian, really was keeping Killian alive against all odds all this time.

That would be awesome, but the writers don't care enough about Hook to do something like that. This half season was supposed to be about him but he is just background in Zades's love affair and Zelena's redemption story. I hope I'm wrong, but the truth is that, for me, the flashback with Hook's father felt more like a way to stop the questions about him than anything else.

Edited April 29, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

Quote

I know the writers have said in tweets/interviews that Brennan was telling the truth, but there's been no evidence yet on screen, so they still have wiggle room if they wanted to suddenly decide it was all a lie. My real vote is that it was an illusion created by Regina to test Hook and the whole story was fake, which still leaves room for Brennan's true identity to be Davy Jones, and the ring he passed on to Liam, who passed it on to Killian, really was keeping Killian alive against all odds all this time.

Or his mother is Davey Jones? I mean why not? This is a show that has mostly strong women that are extremely capable, and are leaders in their own right.

Plus there's a thing I noticed in 5x12 that I had been really curious about for a really long time, and I made a point of going back and checking the scene again. 

When Regina summons her father at his grave, the name on the stone is Henry Mills.

I always thought that was Cora's last name because she is the miller's daughter. Maybe in the EF, men take their wives last name when they marry. Or she took her husband's last name when she married him, and took off with a pirate.

[Souris]

1 hour ago, RadioGirl27 said:

That would be awesome, but the writers don't care enough about Hook to do something like that. This half season was supposed to be about him but he is just background in Zades's love affair and Zelena's redemption story. I hope I'm wrong, but the truth is that, for me, the flashback with Hook's father felt more like a way to stop the questions about him than anything else.

That's totally what it felt like to me, too. They clearly weren't interested in him at all, but the viewers and Colin were, so they threw something in to shut us up.

I would be cool if his MOTHER was Davy (Davinia) Jones. But it's not going to happen.

[Lieutenant]

As far as what they would work with heading into the future season(s), I feel like there are quite a few literary classics they could hit up yet, though they are a bit more modern than the fairy tales most of the core characters are based on.  I think it could be successfully incorporated into the show if well written (I know, I know, TS;TW).  I would totally dig a 20,000 Leagues/Davy Jones mashup.  Or maybe something not unlike a league of extraordinary gentlemen?  

Spoiler

Using Jeklyll/Hyde for 6A is pulling from that era anyway, so why not go for broke with other contemporary stories?  

The only thing currently employing this whole vibe is Penny Dreadful (and doing it quite well, I hear.  But yeah, that's cable for ya - and not necessarily a hugely overlapping audience w/Once).

There's always the bringing in the outside world situation.  I feel like that could be a good final season issue.  What would happen to these people and this town if the world ever found out?  Do they ultimately make it work in the "real world", or do we wrap it up back in the EF where it all began?  Some may choose to stay, some to go back.  

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lieutenant

[Camera One]

The big big bad will be whoever made the Curse.  Maybe they'll copy Buffy and make them a spirit who can personify anyone.  So they can bring back cameos of all their favorites (favorite villains of course).  Every episode they will look different, and then in the last two episodes, they become lookalikes of Regina and Rumple since we can't get enough of them.  Emma gets to hug Snowing in the finale, and their total significant screentime together will finally reach 10 minutes.

The big bad could also be "The Black Fairy".  It could even be Blue's twin or something.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Camera One