A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[KingOfHearts]

 

Maybe they're saving that for Season 7.  Tagline: Fifty Shades of Green.

Hey! You took my fanfic title for TinkerPan! ;)

 

 

I just wish the show would slow the hell down and delve into these stories on more than just the surface level. Go big or go home, you know? If you're going to take the story into Oz, let's freaking see Oz. Let's enmesh ourselves in Oz, let's let the characters go there, see it, feel it.

Amen! Let's get some worldbuilding in here. Let's make the main characters actually interact with these worlds so its relevant to the plot. When we slow down, let's focus on developing the characters and mythology... not storylines that go nowhere!

Edited March 20, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I thought there was a real sense of irony that Zelena was 'green with envy' over the Evil Queen whose origins are rooted in jealousy.

And even more ironic that the next story arc was about how Regina's life was so unhappy that she decided to search for the Author of the storybook to demand she get a happy ending. What would Zelena think about that?

 

I also want to point out that I posted that bit about Hook being content with his life before I saw any of today's interviews with Colin in which he used almost the same exact wording. I'm sure the interviews were done before I posted it, so I guess we're on the same wavelength about the character.

 

These discrepancies are still more reasons why this Author plot is so dumb. Not only does Regina have a better life than most of the heroes do, but her life was considered a happy ending by another villain, the villains want the same thing Regina does and for them it's considered a bad idea, and former villain Hook doesn't feel shafted in the happy ending department. There's no pattern to happy endings or happiness in general among heroes or villains. The only pattern is that Regina is never content and always wants something more. That consistency would work if only they didn't have Emma being on Team Mongoose. Maybe she doesn't really buy into it and just thinks of it as a way of keeping Regina distracted and out of trouble, and that's why she's freaking out about the undercover operation, because suddenly it's not keeping Regina out of trouble anymore.

[KingOfHearts]

 

And even more ironic that the next story arc was about how Regina's life was so unhappy that she decided to search for the Author of the storybook to demand she get a happy ending. What would Zelena think about that?

Isn't that basically what Zelena was trying to do? Manipulate fate to get happy ending? Well of course with Zelena's plan it involved a lot of people never existing. But what exactly does Regina think the Author is going to do? If her ideal is having Henry and being married to Robin, what does the Author have to do to get there? What if he has to kill Marian? We really don't know what she expects to happen. It's so vague.

 

Regina's plans aren't that different from other villains. Zelena and the Queens all wanted the same thing - ideal circumstances that they call a "happy ending". The only real difference is the means to get there... but even there, Regina plans on coercing the Author to write her story... and she also yelled and chewed out a little boy all in the name of her quest. She's just as self-centered as the rest of them.

Edited March 20, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

I agree that it's very easy to sit here and armchair-TV-write, but at the same time, I think if they hadn't felt the need to blow through so much plot and character development in the blink of an eye, they might not seem to be stretching so thin on ideas.

This. So, so, SO MUCH this. And really the culprit was Season 2. The aftermath of the curse breaking should have been all of 2A, and Team Princess 2B. Cora coming back should've been all of S3. Rumpel's attempts to find Nealfire could've been pushed to S4, even, maybe paired with the heroes+Regina going off to Neverland (imagine them coming back to find Nealfire, Henry's father, waiting for them on the docks!). Hell, if it had been handled properly, the Home Office probably could've been an entire season as well. But Season 2 rushed through so many of the obvious post-cursebreak plots that the writers massively screwed themselves. (Especially when it came to the characters and character relationships, honestly. There is so much they have never really dealt with in every.single character and any combination of the principals, but at this point, they CAN'T deal with the issues, because it's stuff that was skipped over to make everyone insta-BFFs, so you can't go back on the BFF stuff now.)

 

I agree that the Once writers are actually really good with the Big Ideas, the vague season sketch. The Missing Year, for example, was a great idea. They just, inevitably, bungle the execution to hell and back.

[Zuleikha]

But what exactly does Regina think the Author is going to do? If her ideal is having Henry and being married to Robin, what does the Author have to do to get there?

Is that even her ideal? She misses Robin, but she's not exactly chomping at the bit to talk with him or get him the scroll. She was always more willing to move on than he was. It may be that all she wants is for the Author to change her future, so that she has fate on her side instead of against her (my interpretation of how the show has explained the hero/villain happy ending thing). Or it may be that she hasn't even thought about it and if the Author offers her the chance of a redo on that moment at the tavern that she'll take it without thinking through the ramifications. 

 

There was a really nice moment in Smash the Mirror where Regina and Snow actually talked about the wider philosophy of heroes and villains and Regina's changes. This storyline needs more of those. 

 

Isn't that basically what Zelena was trying to do? Manipulate fate to get happy ending?

That may be what Zelena thought she was doing, but the happy ending Zelena thought she could get wouldn't be happy (because Cora was an abusive horror and Rumple was as bad or worse as a mentor) and involved sacrificing a newborn baby.

[Shanna Marie]

Isn't that basically what Zelena was trying to do? Manipulate fate to get happy ending?

What I meant was that Zelena was trying to manipulate fate to basically take the life Regina had because Regina had the life she wanted. She was willing to go to some pretty extreme measures to manipulate fate to get Regina's life. So what would she think about Regina dedicating her life to a quest to force fate to give her a better life because her outcome was so terrible that it must have been the result of her being classified as a villain, doomed to unhappiness? We had a story arc about a villain being jealous of Regina's life, followed by a story arc about how unhappy Regina considers her life to be. Zelena would probably laugh and offer to switch places if Regina is so unhappy.

 

And then we get the contrast of Hook, who is finding happiness by loving someone and by doing things to help other people.

 

One of my high school classmates is always posting inspirational quotes to Facebook, which I usually find annoying, but the other day she had one from Zig Ziglar: "You can have everything in life you want, if you will just help enough other people get what they want." And that really fits this situation. You don't find real happiness by focusing on your own unhappiness. That's been the problem with all the villains, that they were so focused on their own unhappiness that they made themselves miserable. Rumple can't let go of power and tries so hard to grab everything that he drives everyone away. Regina's always looking back at what she did have rather than looking forward. Zelena could only see what Regina had rather than looking at what she had. Pan couldn't be happy in his own circumstances and had to ditch everything. Hook was so angry about his losses that he threw away his life. Ingrid was so focused on her fears of what people would think of her that she became warped.

[stealinghome]

Is that even her ideal? She misses Robin, but she's not exactly chomping at the bit to talk with him or get him the scroll. She was always more willing to move on than he was. It may be that all she wants is for the Author to change her future, so that she has fate on her side instead of against her (my interpretation of how the show has explained the hero/villain happy ending thing).

This is the only thing that makes any sense to me, because as you say, I don't get the sense that Regina REALLY misses Robin (because Outlaw Queen is gag-worthy) as much as she misses all that Robin symbolized for her--a fresh start, a chance at love, yadda yadda yadda. So I feel like she's going to walk in to the Author and say "I want you to let me be happy in the future!" It's going to be as ill-defined as that.

[Mathius]

I think the aftermath of the curse should have been given far more attention than it was. I think both Neverland and Oz, if allowed the room to breathe and actually get into the mythology, could probably have been a season each. It's not so much the ideas that are the problem but the pacing and execution. Nothing happens in the middle of an arc and then an arc's worth of shit happens in the last two episodes. Character beats are skipped over in favor of zooming the plot from Point A to Point B to Point C, so the characters are constantly running around but they have no time to react to anything.

Disagree when it comes to Neverland. A full season would have even MORE people whining about the characters walking around potted plants for episodes on end than there already was, plus I think the pacing for that story was nearly perfect as is:

- 1 Episode: Heroes arrive on Neverland while Pan captures Henry.

- 4 Episodes: Pan takes his time working on Henry's mind while devising means to stall the heroes using their own issues against them which allows for good character insight and development, plus showcasing a good team dynamic.

- 2 Episodes: The heroes press through all of Pan's minds games, this makes Pan accelerates his plan with Henry while the heroes accelerate the plan they've been forming (yes, the heroes actually have a PLAN in this arc!)

- 2 Episodes: The whole "Save Henry" endeavor happens with both plans coming together; the heroes almost beat Pan but fail because Henry's a dumbass, but they come up with a counterattack that saves Henry and then they all leave.

Now, I will say that both "2 Episodes" categories could have each had an additional episode added to flesh things out more and given more breathing room to the story. Then we could have had the entire 3B take place in Storybrooke with some new conflict set up, with Panry lurking all throughout, manipulating events and gathering information to form his new plan with. The conflict would be resolved and then Panry would take action, "Going Home" would be the season finale, and then we'd have the entire Season 4 to fully explore the potential of the Oz/Missing Year story arc.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Mathius

[KAOS Agent]

Here is what Regina's plan is from "A Tale of Two Sisters"

 

Sidney: So, what's your plan?

Regina: Find the writer. We must find out who wrote this cursed Tome and then force them to give me what I deserve. It's time to change the book.

 

And from "Rocky Road"

 

Regina: I want to find who wrote this book and make them... Ask them... To write me a happy ending. Is that crazy?

Henry: This is the best idea you've ever had. We have to change the book because it's wrong about you.

 

Which is all kinds of messed up. Everything that was written in that book was true. Regina tortured and murdered and cursed untold numbers of people. It happened. It's not wrong about her. She was the Evil Queen. And there is no ambiguity in the plan - They talk about changing the book. That's rewriting the past, not the future.

 

And then we get to the stupidity of the happy ending which Regina so conveniently demonstrates for us:

 

Regina: Her name is Marian. Thanks to Emma, she's back and recapturing that... happy ending this book gave her.
Sidney: The book gave it to her?
Regina: It's powerful. It's more than just a book.
Sidney: What happens inside it appears immutable.

 

In that section of dialogue Regina talks about how the book gave Marian a happy ending. But Marian was dead until Emma went back in time and changed the story. If Marian had achieved a happy ending in the book (which we see was a picture of her wedding to Robin), it didn't last long did it? Will tells us that Marian was not happy living in the woods on the run, but stayed due to her love for her husband. And then she died! Some happy ending for Marian. Apparently, even if you do get your happy ending written, good luck with that. And if we take into account Emma saving her so now she can recapture her happy ending, well her husband has moved on with her executioner, she's frozen and then forced in a strange new land with a man who loves someone else.  

[Camera One]

And then she died! Some happy ending for Marian. Apparently, even if you do get your happy ending written, good luck with that. 

 

Oh LOL.  

 

The problem is there is no "ending", as long as you're still alive.  Because some pesky villain always pops up and then what?  Are heroes allowed to just sit back and let their inevitable happy ending wash over them?

[KAOS Agent]

I'm seriously still laughing that Regina talks about how Marian got a happy ending in the book and then literally 30 seconds later watches herself sentence Marian to death. The correct response there would have been that Marian should have asked for a refund from the author, not I want what she got.

Edited March 20, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[YaddaYadda]

Here is what Regina's plan is from "A Tale of Two Sisters"

Sidney: So, what's your plan?

Regina: Find the writer. We must find out who wrote this cursed Tome and then force them to give me what I deserve. It's time to change the book.

 

I wonder what kind of squirls run around Regina's brain all day long.  This woman has had what?  Barely a year of trying to be a better person so now she feels she deserves something for that?  That's not how it works.

 

And this is really the main difference between say Hook and Regina and why he doesn't look so interested in the Author.  I think Hook feels he has to earn his happy ending.  And when good things happen to him, he doesn't feel like he deserves them.  This is his way of trying to get passed the things he did, make amends and hope he has earned some of that place in the sun with the woman he loves.

 

Regina is an entitled brat and the more flashbacks we see of her, the less I want her to get anything.

 

I'm seriously still laughing that Regina talks about how Marian got a happy ending in the book and then literally 30 seconds later watches herself sentence Marian to death. The correct response there would have been that Marian should have asked for a refund from the author, not I want what she got.

 

That is Regina just being plain jealous and condescending.  Marian drew the shortest straw in the fucking world, the one that had written in very small script, "sorry, lady, you're shit out of luck."

 

Again, what is a happy ending?  And what is it that Regina considers her happy ending?  She seems to have a very romanticized view of her happy ending, like she's seeing her endgame through rose-colored glasses.  She did exactly that when she was casting the dark curse.  Then she thought being reunited with Henry would be just that for her, and then she has that line about how the closest she's ever come to being really happy was during the week she spent with Robin, Roland and Henry which means that Henry alone was not enough.  

 

So, I'm a happy person.  I have a great husband, fabulous friends, my parents are pretty awesome, I love my job.  But I woke up this morning and the first thing that happened was me stubbing my big toe, so that already put me in a mood.  I got dressed, then saw an email about a meeting I have to take with someone I cannot stomach, so now I have to move all of my schedule around to accommodate that, then I left and got in a crowded subway where someone kept bumping their backpack against my back which was annoying.  I got to work and had to call IT because my computer is a piece of garbage.  And it's only 8am right now.  My day, effectively fucked. Something might happen later that might perk me right up, but right now, I'm not feeling it.  

 

All of this to say what David said so well when he was talking to Emma.  Like is made of moments, good ones and bad ones.  It's really the way we choose to look at these moments that will make a difference.  Emma thought she was a magnet for the bad moments, but this season, she has chosen to live in the moments she gets around these crises and I believe that this is the happiest we have ever seen her.  She decided to help with the author because of this thing Henry put in her head about bringing everyone's happy ending, but like Hook, she's not looking to write hers.  

 

Meanwhile, Robin who recommitted to his wife was desperate enough to go on the hunt for that and find a page that appeared out of nowhere in order to confirm that he and Regina were meant to be.  They are so focused on that, they lost sight of important stuff.

 

Regina walked away from the tavern because she was scared, but she also was not ready for the relationship, whether it was ordained by fairy dust or not.  she just wasn't.  But she is ready for it now.

 

Hook was not ready to let go of his revenge, so he went on a tailspin and his decent continued after he met Emma.

 

Sometimes, you just have to hit rock bottom to understand what's important in life.  

 

I don't know what's up with Rumple other than being a complete asshat.  I guess him wanting to maintain his villain status, his dark magic, his manipulations alive and well and so on while reaching for his happy ending is cool too.

 

Yeah, I got nothing.

[Dani-Ellie]

Disagree when it comes to Neverland. A full season would have even MORE people whining about the characters walking around potted plants for episodes on end than there already was, plus I think the pacing for that story was nearly perfect as is

 

I also agree that the story, as they presented it, was fine and served its purpose and was paced correctly. But we didn't really get into Neverland, you know? We were there, we saw it, we played with Peter Pan being a villain. But we didn't really get into the mythology of the place as presented on Once Upon a Time. There were things that were hinted at between the Neverland characters that were never fleshed out.

 

What kind of work did Hook do for Pan? What was their arrangement? How did Tinkerbell fit into any of it? Wendy, Michael, and John were given token appearances. We touched on the Neverland mythology but we never saw it in depth, and that's my problem. They take the broad strokes of the story and put their own twist on it, but they never fully explore those twists and how those twists change the story we know.

 

I wasn't saying go to Neverland for a full season. But digging deeper into the mythology would flesh out the story and make things feel more real and resonant.

[HoodlumSheep]

I wish neverland had been more than half a season, but not quite a full season. I agree that they didn't touch on the Pan mythology as much as I wish they had. No mermaid lagoon, no Tiger lily, no pirates really, Tinkerbell's role was ???. Like, how did she get in good with Pan? What did she and Hook do? Battle lost boys? Also the whole spoiled opportunity of young baelfire stuck on the island in the past.

Did they ever explain how the shadow ever came to be? I can't remember. Was he a product of the island??

[Mathius]

^ See, that would be another perk of having 3B take place in Storybrooke and build up to "Going Home"; now that the present-day plot has moved from Neverland, more Neverland flashbacks could happen. The Darling siblings, Tink, and Panry would all be in town, so that provides a good excuse for such flashbacks.

It now occurs to me that the conflict they could have used for such a scenario was the Home Office group; the rest of John and Michael's anti-magic employees (remember, Greg said there are many of them) refuse to accept that they've been had all along and continue to attempt to destroy Storybrooke, even turning against John and Michael. The fight against these people would be what Panry uses to discreetly prepare his new master plan.

What kind of work did Hook do for Pan? What was their arrangement?

Well, at least this will be getting explained in this Sunday's episode.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Mathius

[HoodlumSheep]

Now that you all have got me thinking of the neverland arc again, can anyone refresh my memory on the whole Michael/John thing?

Wendy went after Baelfire. Michael and john grew up at some point and have the real world download, but managed to live a couple

centuries (Pan's doing? Did they eventually get taken to the island, and then strike up a deal with pan?)

Was that whole part of the timeline ever explained?

[Shanna Marie]

I think they handled the present-day stuff in Neverland pretty well. It was the flashbacks that were the problem because for the most part they weren't about Neverland or even anything related to Neverland but were random and unnecessary bits of Regina and Snow's pasts that had absolutely nothing to do with the present-day situation. It would have been more interesting to see Bae finding a way to make his escape, get a glimpse of the relationship between Hook and Bae, see what Tink's role was, etc. For instance, Hook must have left before Bae did because Hook was in the Enchanted Forest before the curse and Bae must have landed back in our world during the curse. Did Hook try to get Bae to come with him when he left, or did he leave him behind, or did Bae refuse to go because he didn't want to go back to the Enchanted Forest? Wouldn't Hook's dilemma about telling the others that Neal was alive have been more meaningful if we'd actually seen him interacting with Bae in the past? The last we saw, Bae wanted nothing to do with him and Hook turned him over to the Lost Boys. So why would we think that Pan would get any leverage out of taunting Hook with Bae? If we'd seen a flashback earlier about them becoming friends in the past, then the news that Neal was alive would have meant more.

 

And what is it that Regina considers her happy ending?  She seems to have a very romanticized view of her happy ending, like she's seeing her endgame through rose-colored glasses.  She did exactly that when she was casting the dark curse.  Then she thought being reunited with Henry would be just that for her, and then she has that line about how the closest she's ever come to being really happy was during the week she spent with Robin, Roland and Henry which means that Henry alone was not enough.

I think she has a rosy view of some mythical past when she was happy, but that never happened because at that time, she was unhappy about something else.

 

Take her sighs about the happy time with Robin, Roland and Henry. Never happened. She started kissing Robin one day, when Henry still had no memory of Regina being his mother. The next day Henry got his memories back. A little while later that same day they battled with Zelena. The next day, Henry was hanging around with the Charmings while Regina had her fireside picnic with Robin and later got ice cream with Roland, and that night Marian came back, sending Regina into her downward spiral that led to her telling Henry to stay away. There was no happy time with the four of them as a perfect blended family. Henry never interacted with Roland and barely met Robin.

 

Even when she was in "all I need is Henry" mode, her memories were skewed. She may have had some happy time in his childhood, but when he was an infant she tried to give him back because he cried too much and then she learned who his mother was. She had to give herself a potion to forget about who he really was in order to love him and be happy with him. At some point in his childhood, he became deeply depressed, to the point his teacher felt she had to intervene. Once he got the storybook, he decided his mother was the Evil Queen, and she put him in therapy and started gaslighting him to make him think he was crazy so he wouldn't figure out more about what was really going on. He went in search of his birth mother when he was 10 and spent the better part of that year knowing what Regina was up to and scheming to get Emma to foil Regina and break the curse. After the curse broke, he moved in with David and had little to do with Regina, and he hadn't had the chance to revive much of a relationship with Regina before he got taken to Neverland. After Neverland, it was Panry, not him, who spent the night with Regina, and then the curse was undone and he spent a year not remembering Regina until a couple of days before he had to demand that she let him in the house. I don't think Henry actually spent a night at Regina's house from the curse breaking until he demanded she let him come in when she shut him out because of Robin. And he spent probably a couple of years before that resenting her and fighting against her while she emotionally abused him. It's been at least three years since Regina had anything resembling a positive relationship with Henry.

 

She reminds me of a former friend of mine. We were both military brats and moved around a lot. When we were in school together in junior high, she hated the place we lived and always talked about how wonderful the last place she lived was. She'd been so happy there. Then both of us moved away and we stayed in touch, writing letters. In her letters, the place where we'd lived was perfect and wonderful, and she was so unhappy in the new place that I was actually worried about her. She moved again, and she hated the new place. It was awful. Meanwhile, she was writing poems about the perfect, wonderful place she'd just lived and submitting them to the school literary journal. She moved again, and that last place was the best place she ever lived, while the new place was terrible. She only seemed to like a place after she moved away from it, so she was never happy (a reason she's a "former" friend -- after a while, that kind of deliberate unhappiness gets draining). Regina seems to have a similar thing, where she's hung up on some mythical time in the past when she was happy and wants to recapture that while she also wants something else she doesn't currently have. But that means that she's always miserable in the present because she's missing what she's lost and doesn't have what she wants. And she was also miserable in that time she's being nostalgic about because there was something else making her unhappy then.

 

So I feel like she's going to walk in to the Author and say "I want you to let me be happy in the future!" It's going to be as ill-defined as that.

And this is where I want Dr. Phil to cameo as the Author and ask her, "Well, what are you doing about that, and how's it working for you?" Because you're not going to be happy while you're holed up in your office, obsessing over how unfair your life is. You make your own future, and you can't throw in the towel because one thing doesn't go your way.

[Zuleikha]

And this is really the main difference between say Hook and Regina and why he doesn't look so interested in the Author.  I think Hook feels he has to earn his happy ending.

 

I like Hook as a character, and I do believe he's had genuine personal growth (well, as much as a poor fictional character can given he's subject to the whims of the writers!). He was already reconsidering his ways back in 2B when he had the lovely conversation with Regina about the costs of revenge (thus creating my wish for a Pirate Queen ship that sadly was never to be).

 

However, I don't think the show has yet demonstrated that he's changed in a stable way that would survive another loss of Emma. What we saw of Hook in the Missing Year was someone who was robbing people in the woods and then was willing to let Prince Eric die/Ariel lose her love so that he could kill Blackbeard and recapture the Jolly Roger. So at this point, I think it's equally likely that the main difference between Hook and Regina is that Hook has Emma and Regina lost Robin rather than that Hook has a better attitude about life.

[Curio]

So at this point, I think it's equally likely that the main difference between Hook and Regina is that Hook has Emma and Regina lost Robin rather than that Hook has a better attitude about life.

 

While I do think Regina losing Robin puts her character at a disadvantage when you compare her directly to Hook right now and how he's seemingly content with his life because he's with Emma, I do think he would have handled her Robin situation differently because they do have very different attitudes about life.

 

If Hook had been the one to lose Emma in the 3B finale and Regina kept Robin, I doubt that he would have pitied himself and thought the world was out to get him and ruin his "deserved" chance at a happy ending. I think he has enough self-loathing and self-awareness to realize that he probably deserved that as some form of punishment because of the 200-odd years he spent in darkness. Sure, he'd probably go into a huge state of depression at first and get drunk all the time to numb the pain because he lost the person he was closest to, but he wouldn't go on a crazy mission to find an author (who may or may not be able to grant wishes) just because he thinks he's being written wrong. He'd probably do everything he could to get back to Emma, even if he knew that mission was futile and might result in losing his life. Much like when he lost Emma the first time, he didn't blame anyone else for the situation he was in; he just focused all of his energy on some new tasks (stealing goods and finding his lost home). When he finally did get back to the Jolly Roger and realized he still felt empty, he jumped at the first chance he could get to go back to Emma - his true happiness - and risked his life to outrun a curse and hop realms to find her again. (Which I'm still pissed that we never got to see on screen. Seriously, show. Of all the missing year flashbacks you showed us...that's the one you don't show?)

 

Yes, Hook didn't look for Emma right away during the missing year, but that was also during a point when he was still the one pining for Emma while she never gave him any definitive indication about her feelings for him. At the end of 3B, when he revealed he gave up his ship for her, she finally gave into those emotions and he had a stronger sense that she reciprocated their feelings for each other. So I think Season 4A Hook would have reacted much differently to losing Emma-who-kissed-Hook-genuinely-and-this-might-lead-to-dating than 3B Hook did to losing Emma-who-said-their-kiss-didn't-mean-anything-romantic-and-only-said-an-ambiguous-"good"-as-her-goodbye.

 

Compare that to Regina, where her first reaction to losing Robin is to blame someone else who's clearly out to get her. We never get to see her moment of cognizance where she puts two and two together and realizes, "Maybe I lost Robin because I was a mean person in the past and tortured his wife. Or maybe this is karma for when I tried to separate Mary Margaret and David and killed Graham to prevent him from being with Emma." Instead, it's Emma's fault for saving an innocent person's life, or it's an imaginary author's fault for writing her as a villain. And then, when Regina is presented with an option to reunite with Robin via Ingrid's scroll, she doesn't take it. While I'm glad Regina is actually on a positive-ish mission right now to find her inner Eat Pray Love, I just wish it wasn't so focused on predestination and a stupid author who apparently controls everyone's outcomes. Because when people talk about "deserved" happy endings, it just sounds a bit pretentious and lacking in self-awareness.

 

Personally, I think it would have been much better for the writers to have Regina go on a season-long journey to return all of the hearts in her vault, where she'd have to come face-to-face with many of her past sins and victims. She'd actually have to listen to those people's stories and get their perspective about how they were wronged and how they never got a chance at a happy ending because they got their hearts torn out by Regina. (I think someone on here likened that plot to My Name is Earl.) Giving Regina that kind of self-awareness about her past sins would have been much better character growth for her than having her and Henry staring at a book with a magnifying glass episode after episode after episode after episode after episode...

Edited March 20, 2015 by Curio

[Eegah]

After doing some thinking about where the show could go next, after it's done a rather piss-poor job lately, I figure we're past due for a return to the Land Without Color. Just imagine Storybrooke's heroes going up against Dracula, the Wolf Man, and the Creature from the Black Lagoon, possibly wanting to use Gerhardt for some nefarious purpose (he's still alive, right?). Have them journey to that world, where it turns out magic doesn't work, and the likes of Regina, Rumpel, and the Blue Fairy have to adjust to some very adverse conditions without it. It would really be a breath of fresh air, and maybe get us away from the wangsting the show's been full of lately.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm willing to bet we're headed to Camelot next because the Sorcerer and all.

[Curio]

I'm willing to bet we're headed to Camelot next because the Sorcerer and all.

 

Yes, I'm really looking forward to the two episodes we spend in Camelot during the two-part season finale that'll be extremely rushed and then we'll never visit it ever again.

[YaddaYadda]

Yes, I'm really looking forward to the two episodes we spend in Camelot during the two-part season finale that'll be extremely rushed and then we'll never visit it ever again.

Season 5.  The final 2 episodes of the season will probably be much fuckery that will take us to Camelot.  Morgan Le Fay shows up thereby stealing Regina's happy ending.  Everyone fights for Regina's happy ending.

[Shanna Marie]

I don't think you can really compare the Hook and Regina situations directly. Regina didn't turn her life around because of Robin's influence. She had already changed, presumably because of Henry, so losing Robin shouldn't send her off the rails. She still has Henry. In fact, she spent a year not being able to see that she could find happiness with Robin because she didn't have Henry (supposedly that's the reason they gave for not getting Regina and Robin together during the Missing Year so that they would have had an established relationship instead of just a couple of dates before Marian returned). It's really the loss of Henry that should be more likely to have Regina questioning things. Robin has barely been a blip in her existence.

 

Hook probably would be a lot more affected by losing Emma because she was a major factor in turning his life around, but I'm not sure he'd totally lose his way now if he lost her, and especially if he didn't lose her to something tragic, if it was something similar to Regina losing Robin, where she hasn't been killed by an enemy but rather has to be in a place where he can't be with her. He did stumble a lot upon returning to the Enchanted Forest, but it sounds like he did get his act together again, even without her. Now it seems like he's developing more of a support network because it's not just Emma. He's also got Belle, and I think she would give him a good slap if he even thought about going dark again, and David seems likely to hold him accountable, too.

 

It would actually be interesting to see how Hook would react if something were to happen to Emma (not that I want something bad to happen, but I'm sure there's a way for him to think something bad happened). We know he knows exactly where he went wrong and why it was wrong, and he's been counseling others against falling into the same trap. He's very conscious of wanting to be good, and I don't think he would stop entirely just because Emma's not there to see it.

 

I have to agree that while he might turn to the rum and maybe not be a pleasant person for a while, I can't ever imagine him going on any kind of quest to change his fate by petitioning for a better ending. The kind of quest he might go on to change his fate would be a true quest, maybe a potentially sacrificial one to save others -- like I could see him knocking David out and handcuffing him to something so he couldn't go off on the dangerous suicide mission, since he has a wife, baby and grandson, and going in his place because he has no other reason to live and he'd rather throw his life away for a good cause than for revenge. Or he might go off on another "to the ends of the earth -- or time" quest to find and save Emma. I think in Regina's shoes, he'd have thought of the scroll, taken it, and headed off to find his love.

 

The problem with Regina is that she's never shown any sign of awareness of where she went wrong, which makes it harder for her to correct her behavior. Hook at least knows that vengeance=bad news, and the reason his life sucked for so long. Right now, Regina's blaming the author instead of looking at her own choices, and I could never imagine Hook doing that. Even if he were taking bad actions, he'd take action and take responsibility.

[Camera One]

Hook got a full episode where he regretted a decision that he had made ("Ariel") and I anticipate he'll get another one when we find out whatever he did to Ursula.  Regina hasn't been given an episode like that yet.  The only she regretted was not going into the tavern, and that's not regretting an action that harmed someone else.  Though in hindsight, the Tinkerbelle episode was one of the first where she showed self-awareness. 

Edited March 20, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

I dislike comparing characters' actions because they are different people coming from very different mindsets. However, I can compare characters present reactions to their past reactions and see if I notice whether they have learned something and changed their path.

 

Looking at Hook, we see the first time he faced a devastating life event (Liam's death), he immediately renounced his king and turned to piracy. The second time (Milah's death), he immediately started plotting a quest for revenge turning suicidal in the process. The third time (losing Emma presumably forever), he went on with his life by trying to go back to the only life he knew. He did not have some crazy reaction made in the heat of the moment. He didn't start thinking Regina, Snowing, et al. were at fault for him losing his second chance and vowing revenge on them. He broke the previous pattern which showed me that Hook has learned and changed how he reacts. He was trying to find some kind of happiness in life by moving on and not dwelling on the past. He did this all on his own.

 

Looking at Regina, it's harder to compare life changing events because they aren't as straight up comparable, but generally her pattern in life is to blame others for everything that happens and a bunch of petty vindictiveness when she doesn't get what she wants. Regina has always been externally focused for her happiness. She blames others for her lack of happiness. She is always looking for external things or other people to secure her happiness. That's not healthy nor will it ever really work to make her happy. This is the behavior that needs to be examined to evaluate whether Regina really gets why her life is not so great. When we look at Marian's return and the loss of Robin (which was a really minor roadblock), we see her instant reaction is to blame Emma, blame Marian and blame the book/author. Regina reverted immediately to her old ways. She doesn't have Robin, so now her life is ruined. Her root problem of external focus still remains. She's so focused on what she doesn't have that she can't see the good things she has. It doesn't matter whether an author writes a story that gives her everything and anything she ever wanted because unless and until Regina starts understanding that happiness comes from within, she can't be truly happy. 

Edited March 20, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[HoodlumSheep]

After doing some thinking about where the show could go next, after it's done a rather piss-poor job lately, I figure we're past due for a return to the Land Without Color. Just imagine Storybrooke's heroes going up against Dracula, the Wolf Man, and the Creature from the Black Lagoon, possibly wanting to use Gerhardt for some nefarious purpose (he's still alive, right?). Have them journey to that world, where it turns out magic doesn't work, and the likes of Regina, Rumpel, and the Blue Fairy have to adjust to some very adverse conditions without it. It would really be a breath of fresh air, and maybe get us away from the wangsting the show's been full of lately.

I wish they'd revisit it just to wrap up Whale's story and have him find his brother. He can take Ruby with him, she'd fit in with that world. There. Happily ever after.

Sometimes I wish they would wrap up certain character's story lines or whatever, because I'd rather have that than them showing up once every two seasons. Or they could just be like, "oh, they weren't brought over this past curse," so we don't have to wrap our heads around the main characters not asking the others for help.

There's always Agrabah. Although then we'd get 11 episodes of them trudging through sand. We did get to see bits of it in ouatiw though.

Wonderland: there were some interesting places in ouatiw. Although people might not be able to suffer through the graphics (although near the end of wonderland they seemed to rely less heavily on the sfx).

We could very well see camelot though.

Or what about Treasure Island for an episode or two? Pleasure Island (the EF equivalent)?

They've also touched upon greek mythology a little.

I do think it's time that we see them thrust back into a different world or the EF for half a season. After 4b is done they'll have been in Storybrooke for 1.5 seasons.

[Shanna Marie]

It occurred to me that there actually has been a situation for Hook that's pretty similar to Regina's situation with Robin and Marian, when Neal turned out not to be dead just as Hook thought he might have a chance with Emma. The parallels aren't perfect, since Hook had a relationship with Neal independent of Emma and cared about him almost as a son while Regina didn't really care about Marian, which made it less complicated. But still, it was a relationship in its infancy that had a monkey wrench thrown into it when a believed dead past love who was also the parent of the person's child showed up again. Hook did go through some macho posturing, but then he took himself out of the picture because he felt like the right thing to do was give Henry's father the chance to be a family with Emma and Henry again. Regina did kind of get to the same place at the end, but only because of Marian's ice curse. She was angry that Robin initially chose to make another go with Marian rather than removing herself from the picture.

 

Because of the curse reversal we didn't get to see if Hook would have stuck with it. One thing that also makes Hook's story different is that Emma is no Robin. I really can't see her saying she was going to stick with Neal and then running off and making out with Hook. Hook did got into a bit of self-pitying funk after telling Neal he was backing off, drinking and propositioning Tink (though I suppose if he was removing himself from the running for Emma, he was under no obligation to remain faithful to her), but then he went and took some big risks when they were fighting the shadow. Never did he complain about fate or about things being ruined for him because Neal didn't stay dead. In fact, he had the chance to not let anyone else know about Neal, and he not only told them, but he led the way in rescuing Neal, having to put his own feelings out there in the effort to free his potential rival. You have to wonder if Regina would have done likewise -- if she'd been the one sent back in time and had found Robin's lost wife, would she have saved her or left her there to die?

 

At any rate, this is yet another reason why this Author plot is so dumb. Other characters have gone through similar things without trying to rewrite the universe or without acting like they were horribly wronged. They've just treated it as the way life works. It's just silly that when it happens to Regina it becomes some kind of cosmic injustice.

[jhlipton]

I was thinking about the whole redemption thing with Regina, and the comment Ursula or Cruella made about Regina taking the heart of everyone in a village.  They could have turned the show into a procedural.  Each episode, Regina, Henry, with the help of Emma, Snow and Charming help a Heart of Interest return to its rightful owner, with the limited clues stored in each vault drawer.  For this, they often need to consult their fairytale friends.

 

My Name Is Regina!  "I've got this list of all the hearts I've ripped out and one by one, I'm making it right."

[tennisgurl]

 

I wish they'd revisit it just to wrap up Whale's story and have him find his brother. He can take Ruby with him, she'd fit in with that world. There. Happily ever after.

Oh I shipped that ship SO HARD for a little while, before the show forgot that Whale and Ruby existed. I would have loved it if the gang had to travel to the black and white land, and had to fight evil there or something, plus have Whale and Ruby bond some more. Then if they wanted to stay there, they could, and we wouldn't have just left both their characters hanging in the end, with no resolution in sight. Actually, I thought it would be interesting to have two characters from different lands falling in love. Where would they go? How do they get a happy ending if they both want to go home, but they also want to be together? Genres collide!

 

I have no idea why they insist in staying in Storebrooke when it been established that it is, in fact, unbelievable easy to get to other lands. There are so many interesting ideas there. Hell, they could falling into the Marvel universe and do a cross over with Agents of Shield! I would watch the hell out of that.  

[YaddaYadda]

Hell, they could falling into the Marvel universe and do a cross over with Agents of Shield! I would watch the hell out of that.

 

Please no.  Thanks!  I hate Agents of Shield so much.  Stopped watching it last season over the love that show has for its special Snowflake. the amazing, hacker extraordinaire whom everyone loves and wants to protect at all cost, Skye.  

 

I think the reason they're not really travelling to other worlds is because of the whole CGI.  Last season, in the finale, they had to CGI a whole bunch of stuff.  When they did Arendelle, it was the same thing and I just don't see them starting to build sets left and right to accommodate, though I freely admit that I have no clue how much it costs to CGI anything.  They would probably be like let's build one room and have everyone live together because budget.  They already said that Emma would not be getting her own place this season because budget (though I suspect they may have lied a little bit about that).  They are busy blowing money on actors on contract they barely use, on 20 million guest stars, on Cruella's car which was apparently extremely expensive and so on.

 

I'm probably in the minority, but while I wouldn't mind seeing them going to other lands, I actually really like Storybrooke.

Edited March 21, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Dani-Ellie]

I really like Storybrooke as well. Part of what attracted me to this show in the first place was the idea of fairy tale characters in the real world. The enchanted lands for me are great vacation spots but they're not home, you know what I mean? If I wanted to watch high fantasy, I'd watch Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings. Give me Rumple, Cruella, and Ursula at the drive-thru or devil boxes and Emma buttons and talking phones and big yellow driving machines over high fantasy any day.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I really like Storybrooke as well. Part of what attracted me to this show in the first place was the idea of fairy tale characters in the real world.

Storybrooke is boring. It was interesting when there was a curse, mystery, a sense of realism, cursed personalities, and no magic. Now it's just Enchanted Forest with brick cell phones and pick-up trucks. There's nothing exciting in it because the writers don't like exploring town life, how it operates, or the juxtaposition of fairy tale characters in an earthly setting. It's the same formula over, and over, and over, and it lost its novelty.

 

It would be more diserable if we were allowed to miss it once in a while. If the group got separated or if we were stuck in another world, we could cherish the thought of getting back to the good ol' days of that pleasant little town. But since, besides the Big Bad of the Week, the characters all live in a utopian setting, it lacks a goal for us as an audience.

 

In S1 we wanted the curse broken because we loved our fairytale characters. In S2 we wanted Team Princess to get back to Storybrooke to reunite everyone. Now we know the current villain is just going to die at the end of every arc, so there's nothing to be wanted. Unless Regina's happy ending or ship gifs are your thing.

Edited March 21, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

I'm with KingOfHearts. I used to like Storybrooke back in Season 1 and 2 when the plots weren't so formulaic, but the place is just so boring now. However, I'll also say the flashbacks to the enchanted lands are pretty boring as well, so whenever I say I want the show to realm hop more often, I want them to do it in the present timeline. Otherwise, we get retcon episodes like Snow and Charming outrunning the Queens of Darkness to a tree or Regina hanging out with Maleficent near another tree. I think that's why I liked the Neverland arc so much because we took our present timeline characters and transplanted them into a place they weren't used to. Everyone likes Storybrooke and calls it home, so that place has become everyone's security blanket. If you take that sense of security away, that creates drama. That's why I also liked the Season 3 finale because it took Emma and Hook and put them in an unfamiliar place. Plus, the enchanted lands have cool things like horses and carriages, castles, old huts, and a magical flair that just can't be achieved in Storybrooke. Storybrooke can always stick around as their home, but I wouldn't mind the gang having to travel to other realms occasionally to retrieve a magical item they might need to defeat a villain or find a missing person. They wouldn't necessarily have to do it for an entire season, they could use the episodes sporadically.

 

The enchanted lands for me are great vacation spots but they're not home, you know what I mean?

 

I'd actually love for the enchanted lands to be treated as a vacation spot to get away to occasionally while Storybrooke remained home base. Most of these characters spent more of their lives in The Enchanted Forest than Storybrooke, so you'd think some of them would miss certain activities an enchanted place would provide. Heck, people in the real world travel to castles in Europe as a vacation getaway, why wouldn't the Storybrooke residents want to travel back to the castles of their home lands for a vacation? Emma, Snow, Charming, Hook, Henry, Regina, Belle, and whoever else wanted to go could take a 2-week vacation to their old castle and take a couple days to sit by the lake, have Hook take them out on a large boat, and sleep in a nice castle. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by Curio

[tennisgurl]

Totally agree. I USED to really like Storeybrook when it combined the modern day stuff with the fairy tale stuff. It had its own personality and feel to it to separate it from any other setting. Now it just feels like a generic little town. We hardly even see the townies anymore, unless its plot relevant. I don't mind them having their home base there, I just want a change of landscape every once in awhile. 

[Dani-Ellie]

So Storybrooke is boring and yet when we went to Neverland, I seem to recall there being a lot of complaints of walking around a jungle of potted plants being boring, too. There's only so much a location can do. It's part of the setting, not the whole kit and kaboodle. It's up to the writing team to make the location interesting, and wherever the action in this show takes place, it's going to have the same writing team, which means that no matter which land we go to, we're going to have the same problems there as there are with Storybrooke.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[HoodlumSheep]

So Storybrooke is boring and yet when we went to Neverland, I seem to recall there being a lot of complaints of walking around a jungle of potted plants being boring, too. There's only so much a location can do. It's part of the setting, not the whole kit and kaboodle. It's up to the writing team to make the location interesting, and wherever the action in this show takes place, it's going to have the same writing team, which means that no matter which land we go to, we're going to have the same problems there as there are with Storybrooke.

I never minded the potted plants. I do wish we could have seen the mermaid lagoon at least once though.

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

So Storybrooke is boring and yet when we went to Neverland, I seem to recall there being a lot of complaints of walking around a jungle of potted plants being boring, too.

Neverland was boring though. It was always night time, the sets were monotonous, the colors were dull, and the characters (besides Pan) weren't all the memorable. Oz and Wonderland would have been much more exciting places to visit because they're full of life. They've got more appeal to audiences and much crazier scenarios to deal with.  I'm not saying we should move to a location permanently (except for maybe EF in the last season), but I think we need a different setting periodically to break up the tediousness of the plots.

 

Even though Neverland wasn't spectacular, it gave us time to miss Storybrooke. It made the finale hold so much more weight because our time back was so brief. It raised the question of, "How are they all going to reunite?", which got us on our toes. With these predictable plots in SB, we don't get that same feeling. Switching locations won't fix the writing problems, but it would at least broaden the show's scope a bit, which it desperately needs this late in the game.

Edited March 21, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

In conclusion, we will never be 100% happy with the realms.  Storybrooke is boring, the EF has too much CGI (me), Neverland was too dark, Oz (I don't know what we said about that), Arendelle looked 100% fake (me, again)...I think one of the reasons I like Storybrooke is because the town is real and the sets are real.

[Dani-Ellie]

Neverland was boring though. It was always night time, the sets were monotonous, the colors were dull, and the characters (besides Pan) weren't all the memorable.

 

And this is exactly my point. It's not the place that makes something interesting but how the place is used.

 

 

Oz and Wonderland would have been much more exciting places to visit because they're full of life. They've got more appeal to audiences and much crazier scenarios to deal with.

 

I think the appeal here is the untapped potential because we've only seen it in bits and pieces, but who's to say that if we go to Oz for a half-season, it won't be just as "boring" as Neverland? There's only so much that can be done in 8 days on a TV budget and the location is such a small fraction of what makes something interesting. Frankly, going to Wonderland for half a season would be a nightmare for me. Part of the reason I didn't care for the Wonderland spinoff was because it was missing that real-world grounding. I don't care for high fantasy, so Storybrooke is what helps keep this show cemented in reality for me.

 

I think one of the reasons I like Storybrooke is because the town is real and the sets are real.

 

This.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[KingOfHearts]

 

Part of the reason I didn't care for the Wonderland spinoff was because it was missing that real-world grounding. I don't care for high fantasy, so Storybrooke is what helps keep this show cemented in reality for me.

I agree the show needs some reality grounding. But we're not getting that in Storybrooke right now. The only "reality" we're getting is the location and the modern conveniences. The characters aren't realistic, the situations aren't realistic, and the writing isn't realistic. They do not have to play by LWM's rules at all. It's not grounded whatsoever.

 

I'll only be interested in Storybrooke if there's no magic or if its cursed. Other than that, we may as well go with EF.  Not all of its sets are CGI.

Edited March 21, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

I guess the setting debate just falls under personal preference. For me, I actually really liked Neverland's leafy setting, being able to see the Jolly Roger take on a storm, watching the gang go into different caves, and feeling like we were in a totally different world. If I wanted to watch a show about people living in a quiet small town, there are plenty of other shows on TV like that. But with Once, when you've already established that there are multiple different worlds you can travel to, why not take advantage of that creative opportunity? No one is saying get rid of Storybrooke altogether, but how many shows can claim that their main characters can travel to Camelot, Agrabah, Neverland, or Oz on a whim just because they feel like it? I mean, that's pretty freaking awesome if you think about it. (Again, I'm talking about wanting to travel to these lands in the present timeline, not in flashback form.)

Edited March 21, 2015 by Curio

[Dani-Ellie]

The characters aren't realistic, the situations aren't realistic, and the writing isn't realistic. They do not have to play by LWM's rules at all. It's not grounded whatsoever.

 

These are problems that have nothing to do with Storybrooke as a setting. They're writing issues. And I disagree that it's not grounded whatsoever because the little bits like Ursula and Rumple arguing over ramen or Hook pressing the Emma button or seeing Elsa in her Arendelle finery sitting in a vintage yellow Beetle are the kinds of things I'm talking about.

 

No one is saying get rid of Storybrooke altogether, but how many shows can claim that the main characters can travel to Camelot, Agrabah, Neverland, or Oz on a whim just because they feel like it? I mean, that's pretty freaking awesome if you think about it.

 

It is pretty awesome but at the same time, how many times can we realm-hop before Rumple's need for the Dark Curse to get to the Land Without Magic becomes ridiculous? According to some, it already is. We give this show all kinds of shit for having no world-building or magical rules and then we give it shit for staying in one place when it's been previously stated that getting back to the Land Without Magic from the magical realms is supposed to be hard. It's like it just can't win sometimes.

[KingOfHearts]

 

And I disagree that it's not grounded whatsoever because the little bits like Ursula and Rumple arguing over ramen

That wasn't in Storybrooke, that was in New York... which is actually a place I'd love to visit - The Land Without Magic. That's a place I think we go to where we can get some fresh perspective on the characters but also keep the realism in check. Let's see Regina in a world where she can't get her way with magic. Let's see Emma's parents get some insight on where she had to grow up. Let's see Emma be where she's best at. When we saw Rumple in LWM, we had some great character development from what little we got. I want more of that. Let's get them stranded in unfamiliar territory. That's where a lot of growth can come from.

Storybrooke to me doesn't have that same effect as much because of the crutch known as magic.

Edited March 21, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

It is pretty awesome but at the same time, how many times can we realm-hop before Rumple's need for the Dark Curse to get to the Land Without Magic becomes ridiculous? According to some, it already is.

 

That's actually part of the reason why I think they should go ahead and travel to more lands more often. We've already crossed the threshold where the amount of ways Rumple could have come to the Land Without Magic is beyond ridiculous (The Dark Curse, Jefferson's hat, magical slippers, magical beans, The Sorcerer's door, Pan's shadow, a mermaid, a white rabbit, Zelena's time portal, The Black Fairy's wand...), so maybe it's time for the characters to just go ahead and accept that there are plenty of different ways to travel to different worlds. Sure, there will always be people who cry foul at how easy it is to realm hop when the show tries to tell us it's difficult, but based on all of those different canon examples I listed, I think the show doesn't know what the definition of "difficult" is.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Curio

[Camera One]

I think Storybrooke could be interesting, if they explored the town itself a bit more, if it was "larger than you think" as Regina said in Season 1.  Which is should be if it contains everyone from the Enchanted Forest.

 

The frustrating thing is, as others have said above, they are not using Storybrooke optimally because of magic.  For Storybrooke to be an interesting counterpoint to the flashbacks, things should work differently here but it doesn't.  The characters use various technologies like video surveillance which become moot points because Rumple can just erase and alter the footage.  We end up with the "heroes" seeming completely stupid stuck in the rut of tackling problems with real world approaches which don't make sense considering what their adversaries, from Zelena, to Ingrid, to Rumple, to the Queens of Darkness are able to do.  So it's boring in the sense that every episode in Storybrooke is: 1. New Problem 2. Emma or Charming go on a wild goosechase 3. Heroes avert an immediate disaster, but Villain gains something that helps them in their plan.

 

They're also not taking advantage of the "community" in Storybrooke.  Characters like Granny, Grumpy, etc. might as well be extras.  

 

So I can see why the characters being out of Storybrooke might change up the routine a little bit.  But after a few episodes in Neverland, the new pattern of trekking from one place to another became arguably just as tiresome, especially since there were zero "landmarks" in Neverland, so you couldn't even have interesting worldbuilding to distract you.  It might as well have been the jungles of Borneo.

 

But as Dani-Elle said, to me, it's almost entirely a writing issue.  "Lost" was all about trekking through the woods, but when the characters are actually working through believable and deeper character issues, the setting becomes secondary.  On this show, though, no matter what the setting, it's just dashing here and dashing there, so it feels like going around in circles, whether they're in Neverland, Storybrooke or the Enchanted Forest.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Camera One

[Zuleikha]

For me, I actually really liked Neverland's leafy setting, being able to see the Jolly Roger take on a storm, watching the gang go into different caves, and feeling like we were in a totally different world.

 

I liked Neverland, too. I didn't find it boring, and I think there was more potential there than was used (either due to budget constraints or lack of writer's room imagination). But there's no story-driven reason the treks had to be so dark or the scenery had to be so samey. There could have been more with mermaids in rivers and pixie dust being used to navigate cliffs and the shadow and general Neverland mythology. 

 

I do like Storybrooke as a home base, but I wish the show had actually carried through on the early s2 claim that magic worked differently in our world. It just makes things too easy for whichever magic user the show wants to be victorious and too hard for the non-magic wielding heroes. 

[KingOfHearts]

I agree the culprit is the writing. I don't think Storybrooke itself is the issue. What I do think is that the writers have forgotten how to write for it. SB would be far more interesting if we actually looked into town affairs, everyday life, fairy tale characters adjusting the real world, or the possibility of it being found out by the outside. What stymies its potential is the fact that it's magical just like the Enchanted Forest, as Zuleikha stated. It feels silly that there seems to be no system of government or rules. How it functions this way is a complete mystery. But since writers have no intention of exploring this, even the town mechanics themselves are among the list of contrivances.

 

I just think it would be nice to delve into some of the other realms periodically in the present. Like others have said, there is this large multiverse to take advantage of. The flashbacks bring us these realms, but they seem to get just as monotonous as the present day scenes. I'm not saying that going to other worlds will fix any of the writing problems. It's personal preference, but in general I'd like cover more territory with the show as a whole, both with settings and the writing.

 

You could change Storybrooke up easily with just a change of pace in the storytelling. I'm afraid "breaking the formula", however, isn't in the writers' playbook.

[Camera One]

I know they wanted to keep with Storybrooke because it's familiar.  Since there were many kingdoms in the Enchanted Forest, maybe they could have had multiple towns, each resulting from a kingdom within the Enchanted Forest.  So Aurora and Philip would be living in the next town over.  That would enable some travelling and explain why so many characters are MIA.  Another alternative... what if Snow enacting the Curse did not result in a sleepy little town, but a bustling city?

 

All joking aside, their refusal to change *anything* on Curse Redux was strange.  If Snow was the mayor, why would she end up being in that loft again?  Why would Regina still have that large house?  Why would the Mayor's Office be exactly the same?  Everything in Storybrooke was *exactly* the same.  The Snow Curse could have been the perfect opportunity to make Storybrooke Magic-Free.  So to me, it suggests that A&E does not think this is a mistake at all.  There's evidently no cost to everday magic, so why does Regina bother to drive or walk?   Why did she and Maleficent have to ride Cruella's car over to Pinocchio's?  And what happened to her "addiction" to magic?  Is it not like a drug anymore?  

Edited March 22, 2015 by Camera One

[snarkastic]

I'm trying to figure out how to give you guys the best of both worlds (besides better writing) and all I can come up with is having the show jump five years into the future with the present scenes in new lands and the flashbacks in Storybrooke.