A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[stealinghome]

But for a show that's all "plot!plot!plot!" they kind of suck at plotting.

That's what continues to absolutely baffle me about the show: that they're so bad at plot! Like, does no one involved with this  show look at it and realize that what makes it special is the characters and the relationships, not the inane, "ohh isn't that cool!", logicless and stupid plot-plot-plot stuff? How is it possible to direct 95% of your writing attention to plot, and yet be so awful at it?

[Camera One]

After acknowledging some "missteps" in S2 (which is a mesmerizing understatement), S3 was the writers actually trying to do better!

 

The only misstep I remember them admitting to was the confusion of the taser, or whatever the hell it was.

 

There were some new mistakes the writers made in S3 (mostly in relation to the structuring of a one-off half-season villain), while continuing with the usual suspects of lack of/inconsistent worldbuilding, making the protagonists stupid, having no follow-through, neglecting Emma and her relationship with her parents, relying on twists over logic, allocating unbalanced significant screentime among characters, and hammering blatant moral relativism.  Sadly, I don't think Adam and Eddy see any of these as problems, meaning they won't be "fixed".

 

I have watched each episode of Season 3 twice, and for me, 3A had the two best episodes of the season but taking all the episodes into account, I liked 3A significantly less the second time around.  3B was even worse upon second viewing.  I found both 3A and 3B had a lot of boring scenes on rewatch, especially with the monologuing villains and especially when you know the plot was just going around in circles, it just felt tedious.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

A big part of the problem is that a lot of the "missing year" mystery was the build-up to who cast the curse and why, and then they totally undermined that barely an episode later when it turned out not to matter at all. All that stuff Hook told Emma about how her family was in terrible danger and needed her, all the sacrificing and then sharing a heart to cast the curse because they needed to get to Emma, and then Emma had absolutely nothing to do with the resolution. Maybe they thought that was a clever twist and an undermining of expectations, but it just made everyone look dumb and ended up being very anticlimactic. Hook may as well have given Henry the memory potion, then dragged him to Storybrooke for Regina to kiss and break the memory curse on them all, and the outcome's the same without Emma even in the show.

 

You know, if they were going to do it without Emma anyway, that might have actually made for an interesting story, if she goes chasing after the pirate who kidnapped her kid and finds this strange town where everyone acts like they know her.

 

It's just so frustrating because there are so many easy fixes. I can come up with dozens of other ways to work with the same basic ingredients and get similar outcomes that make more sense in my sleep. Granted, I do this sort of thing for a living (not for TV, though), but you'd think that "master storytellers" who work on the screen, where structure is even more important, would be better at putting together the bones of a story than this. I even have to give the actors most of the credit for the characterization because I don't think most of it is there on the page. The writers came up with a great concept, and that's about it. I'm sure they had a hell of a series pitch, and the first season was good. But they haven't been able to produce on an ongoing basis.

 

I really need to get on Twitter so I can snark at them more publicly.

[KingOfHearts]

 

You know, if they were going to do it without Emma anyway, that might have actually made for an interesting story, if she goes chasing after the pirate who kidnapped her kid and finds this strange town where everyone acts like they know her.

I know everyone was dreading the whole replay of getting Emma to believe again, but I actually think her going to Storybrooke memoryless would have been better. It would be a contrast to S1 - everyone else knows, but Emma and Henry do not. I halfway expected from the promos that memoryless Emma was going to help Hook with his "case" in Storybrooke to bounty-hunt Zelena. This would only last a few episodes before she remembers.

 

The Missing Year was the leg missing from the table. Without it, the plot was like swiss cheese with all the holes. I really wish the curse was more of a "whodunnit" like they said it would be. Because no one paid the actual price, and Zelena had a remember potion, it didn't matter who casted it.

Edited September 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

It would be a contrast to S1 - everyone else knows, but Emma and Henry do not.

 

I thought we would get to see some of that.  I think people were dreading a retread of Emma not believing in magic, which was all of Season 1.  But it would be funny, if only for an episode, if Snow and Charming tried to figure out how to naturally invite Emma and Henry to stay with them, or if they pretend to be hiring Emma as a bailbondswoman, but comes off as completely weird and creepy.  Could be comic gold.

[Rumsy4]

"All that stuff Hook told Emma about how her family was in terrible danger and needed her, all the sacrificing and then sharing a heart to cast the curse because they needed to get to Emma, and then Emma had absolutely nothing to do with the resolution."

You know--this made me sad. I try not to think on the heart-split thing a lot, but really, it was not only idiotic, but ultimately pointless! And Neal sending the message to Hook post-haste. Ugh...

[MaiLuna]

 

It would be a contrast to S1 - everyone else knows, but Emma and Henry do not.

The thing is, Emma knew that Henry thought the town was cursed, but she didn't believe it. So it really was a contrast to season 1, everyone believed except Henry who was the only one that believed in S1. (well, not the actual only one, but that's how it started)

Edited September 15, 2014 by MaiLuna

[Camera One]

Yet they didn't even play that reversal card at all.  They didn't have Henry refusing to believe when he saw weird stuff, or feeling that something was "off" and seeking to find the truth, or anything except being shuffled from one babysitter to the next.  And when the time was right and convenient, they just had Henry open the book and suddenly remembered and believed and everything was airy fairy and upsy daisy.

[MaiLuna]

I really thought they were going to mention the Heart of the Truest Believer or something but they totally forgot about that too.

[Jean]

 

Lighter moments aren't necessarily exciting, but they keep the audience from getting overwhelmed. You can tell by the nutty scenes in 3B with Henry driving that the writers don't put much thought into it any more.

Yes and this reminded me of Colin saying on the DVD that his episode with Ariel was used a breather in between all the drama. This is what A&E considered a break?

[Camera One]

Yes and this reminded me of Colin saying on the DVD that his episode with Ariel was used a breather in between all the drama. This is what A&E considered a break?

 

It was a "breather" in the sense that everyone forgot they needed to worry about the Wicked Witch as Charming and Snow took a long walk along the beach and Regina and Emma, the most powerful of the magical beings went to a secluded forest spot where one almost died for no reason.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Yes and this reminded me of Colin saying on the DVD that his episode with Ariel was used a breather in between all the drama. This is what A&E considered a break?

 

I thought Jolly Roger was still pretty intense, mostly in the flashbacks and then Hook's emotions in the present day. As Camera One said, Emma almost died for no reason too. Plus there was the whole "kiss curse" drama toward the end.

 

If anything, Bleeding Through was the "break"... it was great to sleep through!

Edited September 16, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

It was a "breather" in the sense that everyone forgot they needed to worry about the Wicked Witch as Charming and Snow took a long walk along the beach and Regina and Emma, the most powerful of the magical beings went to a secluded forest spot where one almost died for no reason.

Although I will say, Regina's "oh shit!" face when she thought for a moment she'd actually killed Emma? Was priceless. I give it up to Lana on that one, because that look had me in stitches for a few minutes.

 

I actually do think 'The Jolly Roger' served as a "breather" episode in the present day, the emotional arc (theoretically, because I found it disappointing) was in the past. My issue with the episode, however, is that that was not the right time for a breather episode. You can't set up a crisis, red-alert, all-hands-on-deck situation in Storybrooke and then have the characters out for a beach or woods stroll. There's too much cognitive dissonance. The ideas behind showing some of "normal" Storybrooke were good (if poorly executed), but it was beyond bizarre for the cast to forget about the murderous Wicked Witch, as Camera One said.

 

Like, it would have been a fine episode for season 2, or if it had come (say) in between when the Nevengers returned from Neverland and Pan got his villain on in Storybrooke, but it just didn't work in the context of 3B.

[Rumsy4]

Especially as they cast a protection spell on the Charmings's house, and yet nobody stayed inside. There was no coherency or logic behind their actions.

[angelwoody]

Especially as they cast a protection spell on the Charmings's house, and yet nobody stayed inside. There was no coherency or logic behind their actions.

This drove me bananas!  

[YaddaYadda]

Especially as they cast a protection spell on the Charmings's house, and yet nobody stayed inside. There was no coherency or logic behind their actions.

I wonder if this wasn't the writers being all we have to show how much Regina has changed towards the Charmings that she is now trying to protect their baby instead of all the crap that went down when Emma was being born.  Oh look, there's a protection spell around the apartment that everyone chooses to not stay at.

 

Also, did not appreciate that Hagen Daaz comment.  I know it was supposed to be funny, but it wasn't.

[Shanna Marie]

I don't know that I'd consider "The Jolly Roger" a break, unless it's in the sense that at least when Hook's onscreen, I have something to look at that distracts me from the writing. His side of the story was pretty intense, both past and present. As for the others, it only kind of looked like a break. They just didn't realize that Zelena was quite busy with her little scheme. Emma and Regina were actually doing something somewhat proactive.

 

Of course, none of the stuff the good guys did ended up mattering at all in the long run, which is a recurring problem with this arc. All that stuff about Emma learning magic and realizing how surprisingly powerful she is -- pointless, since she was taken out of the picture for the big confrontation. The protective spell on the apartment? Never came up again. Never tested, and they were always out and about and not using it. We also never got any real follow-up with Ariel, so we don't know how she really feels about Hook now since she found Eric anyway, and he hasn't had a chance to really apologize to her.

 

I'm curious about their writing process -- how far in advance do they have scripts done? Do they plot the whole season, then write scripts as they go? Do they do at least a treatment for each episode up front, then write the scripts as they go? There's no way on earth they write all the scripts up front or we shouldn't get the disjointed mess we have. It comes across like someone writing a novel and publishing each chapter as they go, with no chance to go back and edit. That may be why we get stuff set up, like Zelena needing Emma out of the picture or the spell on the apartment, and then it ends up not being at all important, but they can't go back in time and fix the earlier story.

 

Another weird logic issue: Zelena's flashbacks and some of the other flashbacks involving Regina show that Regina wasn't actually all that naturally talented in magic. She was motivated and got good teaching, but it was a struggle, and Rumple might not have bothered with her if it hadn't been for the prophecy about Cora's daughter casting the curse and for Zelena being a total psycho who would have had to sacrifice Rumple to cast the curse. Even in "The Jolly Roger," Regina is stunned (and maybe a little jealous) about how naturally powerful Emma is. We've seen that Regina is nowhere near as powerful as Zelena. And yet Glinda tells the Charmings that only the strongest light magic can defeat Zelena, and she and the fairies are apparently not powerful enough. So how can Regina defeat her so easily once she learns light magic when she wasn't even the strongest dark magic user? If a moderately okay dark magic user channeling light magic can win, then why couldn't the people who naturally normally use light magic do it?

 

In a sense, I'm okay with that "all is lost -- but wait, what you needed was here all along" storytelling. That was the essence of the original Wizard of Oz story -- Dorothy went through all those trials when what she needed was there all along, and she discovered this after the wizard took off without her. I guess that's what they were doing with Regina suddenly being the one to defeat Zelena? But in this case it undermined all the other characters and made most of the half season pointless. It really should have been a team approach that beat Zelena, since the one thing a person with raging envy wouldn't understand and might not anticipate is being a team player. She wouldn't consider them teaming up and combining power, and maybe Emma's light power could have been what converted Regina's magic to light.

[Camera One]

I'm curious about their writing process -- how far in advance do they have scripts done? Do they plot the whole season, then write scripts as they go? Do they do at least a treatment for each episode up front, then write the scripts as they go? There's no way on earth they write all the scripts up front or we shouldn't get the disjointed mess we have.

 

They have that "camp" after each season to come up with ideas for the next season.  That is probably when they come up with general story arcs and ideas for each character's emotional journey (or lackthereof).  

 

This is what I am imagine to be their process.

 

At the camp for S3, they raised points like:

- wouldn't it be neat if Peter Pan was Rumple's dad?

- what if Regina was given a chance to have a soulmate and she rejected it?

- how soon can we kill off Neal?

- what if Snow White enacted the Dark Curse?

- what if Emma went back in time and her parents almost didn't meet? 

 

Then, they go through the characters they don't have any material for, and brainstorm them into the story (eg. Belle isn't in Neverland... how about Rumple having visions of her?  Charming/Snow doesn't have anything to do... maybe Charming can be destined for death and Hook saves him).

 

The next step would be to identify the major plot points to hit in each episode and decide which character gets each episode's "centric" or flashback.  

 

Then, the episodes would be distributed among the various writing teams.

 

I am assuming that Adam and Eddy then will read all the scripts to make sure there is coherence and consistency.  Or maybe they just skip this step.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Camera One

[Curio]

I would genuinely like to know if there's a designated "continuity" person in the Once writing room. I feel like most other TV shows have that one person who's mainly in charge of keeping track of the show's history... I get the sense that position is nonexistent here, though.

 

I am assuming that Adam and Eddy then will read all the scripts to make sure there is coherence and consistency.  Or maybe they just skip this step.

They just skip this step.

[Rumsy4]

I remember abc released official episode stills for either 3.14 or 3.15, with Regina and Archie showing Henry the Fairytale Book at Granny's Diner. Not only was that scene cut, but they changed the concept and made the book appear in Mary Margaret's closet in episode 3.19 (I think). So, even if they have an overarching plan for the half-season, the writers can alter things as the season proceeds. I think they genuinely do not have a continuity person. They simply don't care about consistency--they go for what works best for the plot point they are trying to convey, and that's it. 

[Camera One]

Adam often likes to tweet, "Done the _______ script", and this would be while the latter half of the season was still running.  So yeah, I agree a lot of stuff in not set in stone.  They just have the big milestones mapped out.  Perhaps that's why there is so much inconsistency, since they might write something to fill time, and that will not be mentioned again in other episodes which are concurrently written by others.  

 

It's not like, oh Snow and Charming will be hunting Medusa, let us all talk about the Ancient Greek mythology section of the Enchanted Forest.   I understand they are very busy during the season writing, editing and producing multiple scripts at a time, but if I were in charge of a show like this, I would want that worldbuilding stuff mapped out so other writers can refer to them, and so they can be added to consistently in future seasons.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

I don't give them a pass on any of that, though. You know why? Because every single other TV show produces scripts at roughly the same pace. No show has all its scripts in hand when shooting for the season starts, not even close. "We haven't written all the scripts yet" is no excuse for the kind of willful continuity fails and logic gaps this show has. (I mean, Snowing went walking on the beach and Emma+Regina through the woods in the same episode as Regina put a protection spell on the loft. That's not even a cross-episode fail of stupid--that was one single writer being stupid as shit!)

 

I've been getting into Person of Interest this season, and their attention to continuity amazes me. I read an article that said that they make all new writers go back and watch every single episode of the series so they know what has been established and what's canon. And each script is meticulously checked by the EPs. And then, when it comes time for a writer's episode to shoot, they fly the writer from LA to NYC so they can observe the filming and talk though their vision for the script and collaborate with the actors. Contrast that with Once, where I'm pretty sure Adam and Eddie don't even watch their own episodes....

[Curio]

I think the general continuity issue comes down to bad leadership and communication in the writing room. If someone says: "Hey, I'm writing an arc right now that has Walsh turn into a flying monkey while Emma is in New York," someone else has to say, "That's an interesting idea, but how did he get there? Because my script has Hook saying the magic walls were up during the missing year so travel between realms wasn't possible..." "Well, maybe we can randomly make him the Wizard of Oz in a later episode? That would explain why he's there." "No it wouldn't..."

 

And then Adam and Eddy would jump in and scream: "But how can we add more DRAMA?!"

[Camera One]

I don't give them a pass on any of that, though.

 

Believe me, I don't give them a pass on it at all.  They worked on "Lost" where there was a guy who was specifically responsible for continuity.  Having created a similarly complex show, Adam and Eddy should know better.

[FabulousTater]

I mean, Snowing went walking on the beach and Emma+Regina through the woods in the same episode as Regina put a protection spell on the loft.

That's because it was never about protecting the baby or anyone else. It was about protecting Snow's footwear. That's why they could all leave with their worries laid to rest because Snow's footwear was safe and sound in her closet with the protection spell surrounding the loft.

[FurryFury]

I've been getting into Person of Interest this season, and their attention to continuity amazes me. I read an article that said that they make all new writers go back and watch every single episode of the series so they know what has been established and what's canon. And each script is meticulously checked by the EPs.

 

Yeah, PoI's season 3 flashback with some of the main characters was such a stunning contrast to Bleeding Through: all made sense and nary a retcon in sight. I was really impressed. And I actually expect even more retcons, nothing is sacred anymore and A&E obviously don't give a damn as long as DRAMA.

[Jean]

Well to be fair that protection spell was absolutely useless anyway. Zelena and Rumple broke the one at the hospital pretty easily. Besides I don't think the point of that scene was a plot for the story. It was a "character" moment for who else, Woegina, and how shiny her halo was. Which would've maybe worked if someone was allowed to note the irony of her wanting to kill Baby Emma but we're supposed to pretend that never happened and just automatically be blinded by the white light surrounding Woegina.

 

I think A&E admitted Once was their fanfiction and they do come off like fanfiction writers. Not just for the Woegina stuff but overall. They only see these big moments they want to go to and don't quite know how to get there or they want to skip the buildup and just go straight for the pay off scenes. I'm thinking of scenes like Snow splitting her heart, Rumple killing Pan etc. I think if you rewatch the show (which I'm not willing to do), knowing that these big scenes were coming up that it would just feel like a race towards them and the in-between stuff doesn't matter.

[Shanna Marie]

They only see these big moments they want to go to and don't quite know how to get there or they want to skip the buildup and just go straight for the pay off scenes.

And then they skip over the consequences -- a big, huge gamechanger that ultimately doesn't change anything or affect any of the characters in a lasting way and that really doesn't matter to the plot.

 

I didn't mind the kiss curse all that much on the first go-round, I think mostly because Colin sold the hell out of the scene in which it was implemented, both with Hook's tearful apology to "Ariel" and with his defiant response to Zelena. But there are serious structural problems. For one thing, it's out of character for Hook, as he's been established, not to go straight to somebody to tell. Even if there's no risk of him kissing Emma, it might have been important for them to know that Emma was important enough to Zelena for Zelena to want to take her power out of the picture. They seemed to be going there when he went straight to the Charmings' apartment, and it was presumably to tell at least David, since he was surprised (and a bit dismayed) to find Emma there, but then that doesn't explain why he didn't take some other opportunity to talk to David. And then there's the problem that they put a kissing curse on a couple that's not in a kissing relationship -- there's this big thing stopping Hook from kissing someone he's already not kissing, so it doesn't actually change things. It seems like they realized this in "Bleeding Through," so they made him brood instead so we'd remember something was different. That kind of curse would only be interesting if it were inflicted on someone who's in a kissing relationship that's maybe a little uncertain -- like where they are now, as of the end of the finale. There's kissing, probably the expectation of more kissing, but the relationship is still really new and in that scary stage, so if one of them were to suddenly back off and refuse kisses, it would shake things up. And then there's the payoff, where it only served to pave the way for Regina to shine, and it was so unnecessary because that's not what you do for a drowning victim. The curse ultimately didn't affect the relationship, didn't add that much extra angst, didn't delay them getting together.

 

I made it through "Bleeding Through" last night, and wow, but that episode makes me stabby. Only on this show would exposing a lie and deception be considered a dark, evil deed. And Snow, that's not telling a secret. A secret implies a relationship and a confidence. Overhearing someone you don't know plotting to keep a deception secret and then warning the person being deceived is not telling a secret. I actually like the scenes between Mary Margaret and Regina if I can ignore the context. If I pretend that at some point prior to this, Regina had apologized for what she's done to Snow, it works. It doesn't work if Mary Margaret is groveling for forgiveness -- again -- and Regina grudgingly admitting that it's complicated, given what Cora did to her, with no mention whatsoever of the multiple wrongs Regina did, including arranging the murder of Snow's father (so they're totally even on the dead parent front, with a slight edge going to Snow as victim since Cora murdered Snow's mother). Then there's Belle and her high horse. Yes, Regina owes her a ton of apologies, but refusing to help the person who's trying to help her boyfriend until she apologizes is really bad form.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think if you rewatch the show (which I'm not willing to do), knowing that these big scenes were coming up that it would just feel like a race towards them and the in-between stuff doesn't matter.

3B was the biggest offender, in my opinion. They had to get from the curse undoing to the time travel adventure with Zelena being the only stop in-between. They didn't care about the character moments on the journey or the actual getting from Point A to Point B - they just wanted Point B. The only reason Zelena's diabolical plot involved time travel was so that the writers could do their Back to the Future special. You can tell, from 3x12 to 3x20, that none of the episodes had special meaning in the long run.

Edited September 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

The writers have ADD.  I mean the ideas on paper are good, but the end result leaves so much to be desired.  I'm tired of the evil mustache twirling brand of bad guys.  Zelena was just incredibly pathetic.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Zelena was just incredibly pathetic.

The sad thing is, she didn't have to be. She was engaging until we found out her "ingenious" plan, then I lost nearly all interest in her. If they played her more like the Evil Queen, in a terrifying way, then she'd be a better villain imo. I was expecting her to be Regina's psycho-mode times ten. Then Regina would say to herself, "Wow I used to be like that? She's totally nuts!" Zelena should have focused on making her and the rest of the town miserable. There were a million others ways for her to get what she wanted without having to break a law of magic, but because she was bent to fit the plot, her character became weak and unmemorable.

Edited September 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

And it's too bad, because I liked Mader in the role and thought she made a very effective villain in the first 3-4 episodes (before the Plot-Contrived Dumb set in). With better writing, I think she could have delivered a seriously chill-inducing, seriously menacing performance and been a formidable villain--certainly the best since Cora.

[Camera One]

She was engaging until we found out her "ingenious" plan, then I lost nearly all interest in her.

 

It became even worse for me after finding out her backstory and why and how she "turned evil".  After that origin episode, everytime I saw Zelena on screen, I thought, "What a loser!"  How idiotic do you have to be to be jealous of Regina.  It didn't even make sense.  Her mother seemed loving and normal, it seemed like she had a decent childhood, and she was powerful enough to magick herself an opulent lifestyle, even before Dumbo Glinda gave her the pendant she didn't even need.  I like the look of Mader in the role and I think she *could* have been good, but unfortunately, I couldn't even get 3-4 episodes worth of enjoyment out of her.  Especially when she was eating screentime like a paper shredder, time which could have been used to actually develop Emma's arc about finding home and showing Snow/Charming's relationship with Emma.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

It became even worse for me after finding out her backstory and why and how she "turned evil".

 

Coincidentally, this is the same episode where her time travel plot was revealed, 3x16. I find it funny that she started out as a total creep, then as time went on she became cheesier and cheesier. From a story perspective, it really made no sense to me that her plan didn't involve the Dark Curse. Why grow up as royalty when you can be royalty forever where time is frozen? What if she time traveled and killed Eva, but Leopold still found out? Her plan was so flawed.

 

I see her more as whiny brat Zelena than the Wicked Witch of the West. She doesn't deserve the title.

Edited September 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

What if she time traveled and killed Eva, but Leopold still found out? Her plan was so flawed.

 

It wasn't that I was dying to see Zelena try to change the past with Cora and Leopold, but it just felt weird to spend an episode building that up and laying the groundwork, and then two episodes expecting it, and then it turned out to be a moot point.  Emma didn't even travel to that era.

 

Another long-winded build-up ending with nothing was Emma training to face Zelena (albeit most abridged training regime ever), building up her most powerful white magic ever, and then she plays zero role.

 

I don't know how to explain it, but I felt kinda cheated.  Did anyone feel they experienced this before 3B?

Edited September 18, 2014 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

I don't know how to explain it, but I felt kinda cheated.  Did anyone feel they experienced this before 3B?

Not before 3B, but I agree that 3B had a supremely unsatisfying conclusion, because the defeat of Zelena/season finale had literally nothing to do with 99.9% of the main plots of 3B. Even in the awful 2B, the plots that they laid down in between the "tentpole" episodes generally came to fruition and had something to do with the season's main storylines--I felt like there was some point to watching the intervening episodes, bad though they may have been. But in 3B, they literally ignored 99.9% of the plots laid in the half-season so that Regina could actually start shining pure white light (ugh) and they could have a time-travel adventure that had nothing to do with the rest of the half-season. Even more than 3A, it was just so obvious that most of the episodes in between the premiere and finale didn't matter. I mean, you literally could have skipped everything from 3x13 to 3x20 and not missed a beat. Just...disappointing as a viewer. Unsatisfying. You feel like your time's been wasted. (Particularly because I thought 3B represented a real opportunity to creatively jump-start the show again, and they totally did not do that.)

[KingOfHearts]

New York City Serenade made me feel cheated. I loved Going Home. It's one of my all-time favorite episodes of the series. The ending was one of the very few moments on the show that was just perfect in every way. (Except for Henry, but that's almost always the case.) I became a Oncer during that winter break afterwards, and I spent half that break hypothesizing what would happen next. I lurked TWOP for spoilers almost every day. Then the premiere happened, and my anticipations were way too high for what came of 3B.

 

The fact Storybrooke is back in one episode makes me feel cheated. Emma remembers, she's back with Hook, and it's as if that tearful goodbye was for nothing. The writers took the biggest reset possible and resolved it immediately. It just blows my mind that they would skip out on such an amazing idea. The plans looked awesome on paper, but they got trashed in the execution.

 

 

I don't know how to explain it, but I felt kinda cheated.  Did anyone feel they experienced this before 3B?

 

As for before 3B, I'd have to say the 2A finale when Cora came to town. I was expecting a rampage of terror by how Rumple and Regina were talking about her. Instead we got Woegina...

Edited September 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

I don't know how to explain it, but I felt kinda cheated.  Did anyone feel they experienced this before 3B?

Do you mean overall, or just season 3?  If it's overall, my answer would be twice.

 

1:  Season 2.  I cannot repeat it enough.  Season 2.  I expected so very much from season 2, and instead I got the horrible princesses road trip, and Regina's emotional roller coaster and collaboration with Cora--of all people--and very little actual follow-up on the possibilities of season 1.  I still haven't rewatched those episodes.

 

2:  New York Serenade.  It's not that the episode was bad; it wasn't a bad episode.  It's that it washed away so much possibility for drastic story change, and completely threw that away.  It took a chance to completely remake the series, and instead it was over.  There was no build-up.  It was just over. 

 

(Regina suddenly being the be-all and end-all of all whiteness and light while everyone else was reduced to floor decorations would be a very close third, but by then I'd learned not to expect as much.)

[Dani-Ellie]

A lot of what makes me feel cheated are the things done for the sake of plot that ended up being meaningless. Expanding on Camera One's point about Emma, Snow and Charming in 3x12 insist that Emma and Henry's best chance was in New York except oops, in 3x19 they need Emma to defeat Zelena, so screw what Emma and Henry have going on in New York, Emma's up for Savior Duty again. So Snow and Charming cast the Dark Curse to find Emma (which I may not have hated so much if they'd done it for better reasons). Which, okay, fine, but omg you guys have just turned Snow White and Prince Charming into complete and total hypocrites. (This is where some mention of Emma in the missing year stuff would not have gone amiss ... so it didn't look like they only wanted to get back to her when they needed her.)

 

So Hook shatters Emma's happy life and drags her back to the nuttiness. She builds her magic to the point that Emma Swan is actually having fun with something, you guys, and then the story takes it from her. And the story takes it from her just so Regina can pull light magic out of her ass.

 

There are a dozen ways I could think of rewriting the showdown scene where Regina could still come through in the clutch but the narrative doesn't destroy a part of Emma to do so. Have Zelena magically freeze Emma or knock her unconscious, for crying out loud. That way the good guys' Plan A falls apart and Regina can still pull white magic out of her ass to save the day, but there's no tearing down of one character to build up the other.

 

To tie this all together, they never even needed to get Emma from New York, then, if she wasn't ever really needed for the fight at all. So what the hell, show? Why piss me off to the extent that 3x19 did if it wasn't even freakin' necessary? (And I fully understand here that Snow and Charming were operating under the assumption that they needed Emma ... I'm not arguing against that. I'm arguing against the narrative itself making their actions superfluous because of the plotting that came afterward. I just think it would have been better plotting for Regina to be a surprise Plan B than it was for Emma to be an ultimately unnecessary Plan A.)

[Jean]

I knew it was all going down hill after Going Home. I just didn't know how steep the free fall would be. Going Home felt like and should've been a series finale.

I think what they should do is just end the series and start over. They can keep the same-ish cast in the new roles and stories. Sort of like the American Horror Story model. I think it's quite clear they are pretty bored with every single character and run out of ideas for them, except for Woegina.

It's too bad they blew through the classic fairy tales so quickly and made them so insignificant. Since this was Snow and Evil Queen's chapter, they could've made the new one one Sleeping Beauty. And the next Cinderella or whatever.

[Rumsy4]

After S2, I was close to quitting the show. The good guys were acting stupid, and I'd had enough of Woegina's tears. But the start of S3 made me reconsider. Despite some mediocre episodes, I liked 3A overall. So, I felt doubly cheated with 3B. Horrendously bad writing, shameless victim-blaming, and several jump the shark moments. As others have said, there was no point in episodes 3.13 through 3.19. Nothing happened, except for the death of Douchfire, and the way they killed him off was so dumb, they might as well have done it off-screen. 

[stealinghome]

I knew it was all going down hill after Going Home. I just didn't know how steep the free fall would be. Going Home felt like and should've been a series finale.

Yeah...as it turns out, I actually do kind of wish the show had stopped with 'Going Home' (or at least that I'd stopped watching!). There's just no way that Going Home isn't going to be 500% better than the eventual series finale.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Nothing happened, except for the death of Douchfire, and the way they killed him off was so dumb, they might as well have done it off-screen.

I almost spit my coffee. I actually agree that an offscreen death would have been more honorable for him. Psh, even Zelena making Rumple cast the curse with Bae's heart would have been eons better.

 

 

After S2, I was close to quitting the show. The good guys were acting stupid, and I'd had enough of Woegina's tears.

3B was a different brand of terrible from S2 in a way that I'm grateful for. S2 was full of irreparable character assassination and pitfalls that have affected the show still a whole season later. 3B was mostly just a yawn, but it didn't "kill" the whole show like S2 did.

Edited September 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

 

Another long-winded build-up ending with nothing was Emma training to face Zelena (albeit most abridged training regime ever), building up her most powerful white magic ever, and then she plays zero role.

 

You know what's even more stupid about this? David sacrificed his heart for no reason. They didn't need Emma at all. So imagine if heart splitting wasn't really a thing and things played out the same just without David. He'd have died for absolutely nothing. The more I think about this storyline, the angrier I get. So utterly pointless.

 

Also, Emma losing her magic was not at all interesting. She didn't really care one way or the other and within hours of losing her power, Zelena was dead and Emma had an excuse to not be the Saviour anymore. Win, win for Emma with zero drama. Now Regina or Rumpel losing their powers would have all kinds of story potential in terms of how they'd handle it. Regina's Season 2 performance issues were never explored and Rumpel's freak out at the airport was the only decent thing about "Tiny". It would be way more interesting for either of them to have to deal with things long term than Emma who is way more comfortable using her non-magical skills and really couldn't have cared less that magic was no longer an option. 

Edited September 18, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

Now Regina or Rumpel losing their powers would have all kinds of story potential in terms of how they'd handle it.

 

Every season I hope that something in Storybrooke would block all magic and Regina and Rumple and the Villain of the Season would be as powerless as Blue, so the Storybrooke part of the story would be more grounded in reality and the protagonists can match wits with the villains on an equal footing.   But it never happens.  But it's better not to hope at all.  The mantra - no expectations, no expectations, no expectations, no expectations.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

Psh, even Zelena making Rumple cast the curse with Bae's heart would have been eons better.

 

That would have been incredibly amazing.  Talk about the curse he created coming back to bite him in the ass in a major way.  The writers were incredibly short-sighted to just get rid of him like that.

[daxx]

I was hoping that Rumple cast the curse with Neal's heart, it would have been great drama and made wonderful narrative sense.

[YaddaYadda]

I wasn't a Neal fan in the least, but the show was built around him, so the way he was dispatched was underwhelming.  They could've still have him bring back the Dark One and then Rumple could've been forced with his dagger to enact the curse before Snow (ugh!) did it.  No one can tell me that Zelena couldn't have separated Neal and Rumple.  Emma did it without even knowing much about magic.

[Shanna Marie]

If you take it out of context, I don't have a huge problem with Snow casting the second curse and sharing her heart with David. That's a rather lovely metaphor, and it makes for an interesting contrast with Regina, who was so selfishly driven toward her goal that she didn't even consider sharing her heart with her father. The problem is the context. That should have been a desperate, last-gasp maneuver after they'd tried and failed with everything else and doom seemed imminent. But we didn't see them trying anything, and I don't recall them learning about Zelena planning to alter time until they were in Storybrooke, so they didn't even have the motivation that history was going to be altered. It was more like they got a threat, spent eight months twiddling their thumbs, then said, "well, guess we have to cast the curse." Even just moving when they used the "eight months later" caption might have helped, if it came after they talked to Glinda. Wouldn't talking to Rumple have been the first thing they tried? That meeting when they discussed it (and when they did show the "eight months later") seemed more like a first meeting to lay out their initial steps, not the kind of thing that would have come after eight months of trying everything.

 

And then there's what came after, when it turned out they didn't need Emma, anyway. All that, for nothing. She wasn't needed to break the curse and wasn't needed to defeat Zelena.

 

I do find it odd that there were apparently no light magic users available in that whole world. Is that something particularly rare? Aside from the fairies and the Oz witches (and Emma), all the magic users have been evil. Does that mean that magic tends to make people evil or that only evil people are drawn to magic? Since Regina was able to pull it out of her ass, it seems like an easy switch flip -- act out of love and presto, light magic!

[Camera One]

I do find it odd that there were apparently no light magic users available in that whole world. Is that something particularly rare? Aside from the fairies and the Oz witches (and Emma), all the magic users have been evil. Does that mean that magic tends to make people evil or that only evil people are drawn to magic? Since Regina was able to pull it out of her ass, it seems like an easy switch flip -- act out of love and presto, light magic!

 

Replying in Magic, Enchantment Thread.