A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[YaddaYadda]

Meg, however, was utterly pointless. She could have been any random girl and there'd be no difference.

 

I think it's a case of being stuck between a rock and hard place in this case. If they had brought on some random girl, and she had moved on with Herc, then people would have been up in arms about how Hercules loved Megara, and how she is his true love.

 

I really think they cut a couple of her scenes that explained her better. At this point, I'm not even sure what her unfinished business was that she was in the UW in the first place.

[Camera One]

They decided on the rock and the hard place, though. They chose to use Herc in a single episode, and thus needed to cram Meg in somehow.  They also chose to use Meg as the end-twist within an episode instead of as an active player right off the bat.  

 

I agree Hercules wasn't used horribly, though not particular well either.  He didn't do anything Herculean except that pathetic "earthquake".  His status as a demi-god, and his backstory as an adopted child, son of a god, etc. was completely irrelevant.  We didn't get to see any of his iconic moments in flashback, like we did with other one-offs like Hansel and Gretel.  So beyond the Cerberus and 12 Labors name-drop, I'm not sure there was much depth behind the Hercules cameo.

[YaddaYadda]

His status as a demi-god, and his backstory as an adopted child, son of a god, etc. was completely irrelevant.

 

Part of it was irrelevant, yes, but the part about him being a demi-God, I don't know that it was. They established the relationship between Hades and Hercules with the uncle and nephew route. Hades clearly doesn't give a hoot that his own family was in the UW with unfinished business. Hercules died well before Snow became a bandit, he could've been in the UW for some 40 years already before everyone showed up. And his final scene was him walking to Olympus where his father is.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be remotely shocked if Hercules came back for a cameo.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Part of it was irrelevant, yes, but the part about him being a demi-God, I don't know that it was. They established the relationship between Hades and Hercules with the uncle and nephew route.

Replying in Labor of Love thread.

Edited March 17, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

The Snow vs. Regina flashbacks are tedious, but it's not necessarily the subject matter itself that makes it that way. Every time we get them, it happens like this: Regina finds a way to rid herself of Snow once and for all, but she's thwarted by another character who assists Snow. (Ariel, Charming, Henry Sr., Hercules, take your pick.) Their feud is a central aspect of the show's premise, yet it used to be far less one-note. In S1, the Snowing saga intertwined the politics of three kingdoms - Regina's, George's, and Midas'. It also included the backstories of important characters like Red, the dwarves, and Archie. We didn't see Snow running from Regina as a bandit week after week. Other tensions kept it fresh. (Even though this was much earlier in the show when things were less repeated than they are now.)

Edited March 17, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

One of the problems with it happening over and over again is it makes no sense why Snow didn't die a thousand times over.  Even in the latest episode, why didn't Cora pop over and steal Snow's heart again?  It's not like it's hard to do.   It's so incredibly dumb.

[KingOfHearts]

 

One of the problems with it happening over and over again is it makes no sense why Snow didn't die a thousand times over.  Even in the latest episode, why didn't Cora pop over and steal Snow's heart again?  It's not like it's hard to do.   It's so incredibly dumb.

 

Back in S1 you could headcanon that Regina didn't want to kill Snow herself. But in 5x12, we see her clinching the heart without hesitation. It's part of the effect of the constant retcons. (World-hopping becoming commonplace, the morality system, the timeline, etc.)

[Camera One]

I remember also headcanoning that Regina had some sort of limitation, or Snow had some powerful good magic protectors.  But nope, Regina can pretty much do anything and good magic wielders are generally idiotic and useless.

[KAOS Agent]

 

Back in S1 you could headcanon that Regina didn't want to kill Snow herself. But in 5x12, we see her clinching the heart without hesitation.

 

Don't forget that time where she gleefully burned Snow at the stake. There is no place for a head canon that Regina didn't want to kill Snow at this point. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

Don't forget that time where she gleefully burned Snow at the stake. There is no place for a head canon that Regina didn't want to kill Snow at this point.

Or when she suffocated her in 3x06.

[Shanna Marie]

One of the problems with it happening over and over again is it makes no sense why Snow didn't die a thousand times over.  Even in the latest episode, why didn't Cora pop over and steal Snow's heart again?  It's not like it's hard to do.   It's so incredibly dumb.

Then there's the fact that there's zero suspense because we know Regina doesn't succeed and Snow doesn't die. The only time that came even slightly close to being suspenseful was in the time travel episode (and even there, it's pretty certain that they weren't going to retroactively kill Snow, and that was actually kind of the "present" for that episode). So not only is it one-note and done to death, but we already know the outcome, and we know exactly how and why the outcome came about. In excruciating detail.

 

The flashbacks that work best are the ones where we either don't already know the outcome, based on the present, or where they explain some situation that exists in the present. Snow vs. Regina doesn't really tell us anything new that affects the present that we didn't already get from season one, and we know how it works out, since it's already resolved. So, Hook vs. Ursula, we knew she went bad, so it wasn't exactly suspenseful, but the story explained how she got that way and Hook's role in it. We didn't know Liam was going to die that way and in that story (though obviously he wasn't currently in Hook's life, so something happened to him along the way, but there was a century or so to work with), so there was some suspense. The Lily stuff was kind of stupid, but we didn't know how it would work out, and it set up the discovery of the videotape with Ingrid on it in the present.

 

I did think the detail of Regina setting Snow up to fail in protecting her kingdom was an interesting touch. At least there it wasn't an obvious outcome and it added an interesting twist to the history of their relationship, showing that Regina's animosity and working against Snow went further back. Though that does make Regina look even more petulant and makes her "redemption" even more farfetched. It's hard to feel too sorry now for Regina in the birthday party scene back in season one when we know at that time she'd already put Snow's horse under a sleeping curse and had paid bandits to attack the people to make Snow look bad.

[Camera One]

Then there's the fact that there's zero suspense because we know Regina doesn't succeed and Snow doesn't die.

 

Strangely, for me, that is one thing that doesn't bother me that much.  Even in the day-to-day plot, it's obvious Emma, Hook, Regina, etc. won't die, but there is still suspense.  I agree there is even less when it's a flashback, but I can sometimes still find suspense even when I know the characters won't die.

[KAOS Agent]

I don't think there needs to be a life or death level of suspense, but there must be a belief that something might happen that changes the status quo. So they could show me a flashback of Emma in her bailbonds days and there is the worry that she might get seriously injured by the person she is chasing. This event could then be used to show how she's learned from that experience in the present or they could use it to give a better perspective on Emma's life choices and how she came to be the way she is. You could see the same thing with Hook. Maybe a pirate raid occurs where a child is hurt by his crew or something and Hook feels immense guilt or flips out or something else, but it can be used to show us who Hook is and/or was. The Snow v Regina stuff at this point does not do that because it's always the same thing. It's not a new insight into their personalities or an event that profoundly changed them. 

[orza]

There doesn't have to be suspense in every scene. I enjoy the flashbacks even with the repetition because there is not much point to the show without fairytale characters without a magical fairytale land. The Storybrook parts are kind of boring in comparison. I also like the flashbacks because no Emma. I'm not interested in anything about Emma. I find her annoying. I didn't like the season 3 finale. It was a good idea but too much Emma.

Edited March 18, 2016 by orza

[Shanna Marie]

There's a huge difference between no more flashbacks repeating the same beats of the Regina vs. Snow feud relying on the threat of Regina killing Snow and no more fairybacks at all. And while not every flashback needs to have suspense, they tend to write these as though the suspense is all around whether Regina will actually kill Snow. Like in the latest one, where it was framed as "oh no, Cora has Snow's heart and is giving it to Regina, and Regina is crushing it and Snow is gasping!" when we know Regina doesn't kill Snow. Since that story was really about Regina's relationship with her father and his futile efforts to turn her away from revenge, it would have worked better, and with more real suspense, if instead of the fake suspense of whether Regina would kill Snow, we'd seen Henry conspiring against Cora and working with Snow White. Since we know that something bad does happen to him (the shrinking and being imprisoned in Wonderland), there's real suspense of whether this is how it happens -- will he get caught and shrunk now? But the music and the structure were instead all built around making it look like Regina really would crush Snow's heart. They devoted a lot of screen time to something we knew wouldn't happen.

 

The more recent episode was a better use of flashback to show that relationship because it added an additional element we didn't know about, but since it was behind Snow's back, it didn't feel like such a retcon that it should have affected their relationship (though it does add more reasons why Regina owes Snow so many apologies). There was some suspense in whether or not Snow would succeed against the bandits. I could actually have believed her not succeeding, since it might explain why she was tempted at times not to fight for her own throne and why she doesn't seem to have tried being a real leader or being the rightful queen even after the curse. That meant I really didn't know for sure how it would work out. She could have learned stuff from Herc and still failed, but what she learned helped her survive later.

[Camera One]

But the music and the structure were instead all built around making it look like Regina really would crush Snow's heart.

 

But then how would they incorporate Jiminy Cricket's adventure in Snow's coat?  Not to mention confirmation that Regina has tasted blueberry pie but "prefers apple".  Maybe they decided on these two elements first and wrote the episode to incorporate them.

 

I think part of it was wanting the 100th episode to feature the Snow White/Evil Queen/dwarves again as a call-back to the original story from the pilot.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I find it strange that the Nevengers aren't eagerly searching for dead loved ones. I know they have a mission and everything, but who wouldn't want to do that? Robin said he'd "walk through hell" to see his Marian again. Well he's pretty much doing that now and doesn't seem to even want to make sure she's okay. Snow hasn't mentioned her parents once. Regina hasn't had any curiosity about Daniel. (Which, I'm surprised about since there seemed to be foreshadowing in 5x05.) I know A&E have their own meta agendas and we can't see everyone who has died for various reasons. However, the overall tone resonating from the Nevengers has kept shifting from sentimental to determined at random intervals. They can't decide if they want to take an Underworld Tour of Hope or just get in and get out.

 

(Side note: Emma and Rumple are pretty exempt from this. They have their own goals engraved in their minds.)

Edited March 18, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Maybe that's why Snow was looking at all the gravestones in the cemetery?  It would have been nice if they let her say something about how she hoped her parents got to go into the light.  They just had to make the conversation with her and Charming slightly longer.  But our attention spans are short and there was enough kitchen sink talk already.

[KingOfHearts]

The cast has basically become a team of cardboard cutouts. They all serve single functions and rarely deviate from them unless it's a moment of jarring, OOC portrayal. They're not people, they're positions in a crappy team. 

 

Emma: The determined hero

Hook: The long-suffering love interest

Regina: The redeemed villain who gets all the shinies

Rumple: The deceptive jerk

Belle: The dumb one

Robin: The bland one

Henry: The stupid one that can't shut up

Charming: The handsome lapdog

Snow: The backline "nice" babymaker

Zelena: The psychopath

 

Secondary character bonus round:

Granny: Speaker of rare one-liners

Grumpy: Shouter of rare one-liners

Other Dwarves + Doc's Miata: Expendable cannon fodder

[Camera One]

Jared Gilmore is doing a "Which is your favorite season" poll on Twitter, and his followers have ranked:

#1 - Season 3

#2 - Season 1

#3 - Season 4

#4 - Season 2

https://twitter.com/Jared_Gilmore/status/712359071198814209

 

Is that similar to our community's consensus or not?  We usually divide it up by half-seasons when assessing which we prefer.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

I feel like that's pretty darn close to our consensus, too. Season 3 remains my personal favorite, and it features several of my all-time favorite episodes. I can easily go back and re-watch episodes from Season 3, but I can't say I've done that for any of Season 4.

[HoodlumSheep]

I think most have season 1 and 3a (2a too, for the most part) near the top. 3b is more middle ground. So I think season 3 and 1 at the top seem about right. I personally prefer season 3 (probably because of CS). So I agree with the top two.

I'm shocked that season 4 is ahead of season 2 though. I know that 2b had some awful stuff, but season 4 was not very good as a whole. 4a was okay, but 4b? *shudders*

Edited March 22, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

It's so difficult to pick without taking arcs into account. e.g. 2A is decent but 2B is the pits. I'm going to put S2 over S4 just because S2 had more good episodes. They both attempt to assassinate Snow as a character though. I really don't know where to put S5 yet because I heavily disliked 5A but 5B is getting a little better.

S1 > S3 > S2 > S5? > S4

Edited March 23, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Until recently, S1 was my favorite season. But the Show is so different from the S1 feel, it's almost like another Show, and it's been far too long since I rewatched it.

I'm liking S5 overall, but I'll wait until the end of the season to rate it.

I am going with S3>S1>S2>S4.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think most have season 1 and 3a (2a too, for the most part) near the top. 3b is more middle ground. So I think season 3 and 1 at the top seem about right. I personally prefer season 3 (probably because of CS). So I agree with the top two.

 

I am going with S3>S1>S2>S4.

 

There's some really good writing in S3. 3x11 is my second favorite episode of the series, following closely behind 1x22. The two-part finale movie had nice quality as its own story. 3A garnered plenty of character development. Even the episodes that are "bad" aren't really as jump-the-sharkish as they are just boring. 3A tends to lag in the middle and not much happens in 3B. But at least through 3A, S3 still captures the spirit of the show's core. The Neverland arc retained a lot of the "magic" in its storytelling. The winter finale feels like the end of the original series and 3B is the start of what we're watching today.

 

What can I say about S4? It feels like filler. Frozen didn't need to happen. The Queens of Darkness didn't need to descend upon Storybrooke. The Author debacle affected nothing aside from making Henry something that's still relevant today somehow. Lily was a pointless character who has moved in with Will in Offscreenville. Captain Swan development and Zelena's return with Pistachio are really all we got out of it.

Edited March 23, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

For me, it's definitely 1 > 3 > 2 > 5 > 4.

Season 1 can't be beat for me, but Season 3 was a really damn solid season of a television show, only really slipping as 3B went on but making up for it with the finale. Season 2 started off well enough, but then 2B happened and it all fell apart. Neither Season 4 nor Season 5 have been that good, IMO, but Season 5 has actually managed to connect its A and B halves better than Season 4 did, and neither 5A or 5B can top 4B in awfulness, so the nod goes to Season 5.

There's some really good writing in S3. 3x11 is my second favorite episode of the series, following closely behind 1x22. The two-part finale movie had nice quality as its own story. 3A garnered plenty of character development. Even the episodes that are "bad" aren't really as jump-the-sharkish as they are just boring. 3A tends to lag in the middle and not much happens in 3B. But at least through 3A, S3 still captures the spirit of the show's core. The Neverland arc retained a lot of the "magic" in its storytelling. The winter finale feels like the end of the original series and 3B is the start of what we're watching today.

Are you my clone? Am I your clone? I literally agree with every word of this.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

Rewatching 5A for the first time. Merlin's warning to Young Emma continues to be pointless. I figured out what A&E were trying to do - they were trying to copy the Jacob flashbacks from Lost. He appeared to the main characters at earlier points in their lives to meddle and give them ominous warnings. Here they tried to replicate that to make Merlin look mystical and pretentious. Very mysterious opening to begin the season with. Really the warning should have been about Dark Hook. "One day you're going to use Excalibur to save someone you love... don't do it."

 

It's pretty silly the Merlin would even make an appearance at such an early age for Emma, and it's even sillier that she remembered it years later. Oh, there's that big plot hole about how Merlin never appeared to Arthur or his own Apprentice too.

Edited March 24, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I have to say that although the subject matter for 5B is pretty dark, and there is the issue that just about all our guest characters are dead, with the "happy ending" being them getting a better kind of afterlife experience (except poor Milah), I'm finding it a little easier to take than 5A. It doesn't seem quite so bad to me for a good guy to suffer because an evil person is doing bad things to them as it is for a good person to suffer because they did something good. In 5A, Emma was all tormented just because, as a consequence of her sacrifice. There wasn't really any evil person causing things to happen because of evil. She was just struggling, and it kept getting worse for her. Plus, as of the end of the first episode, we already knew things were going to get even worse for her in the flashbacks.

 

At least now, Hades (and maybe now Rumple) is taking action against the heroes with an agenda, and that's something they can fight against and presumably win. They're bringing hope to a place without hope.

 

Though I still wouldn't recommend that anyone new to the series or who liked it in season one and drifted away watch it right now.

[Camera One]

Oh, there's that big plot hole about how Merlin never appeared to Arthur or his own Apprentice too.

 

And the biggest hole of all... Merlin's idiotic "Find Nimue" message, written in the middle of the season, referred to in subsequent episodes, and made zero sense, still.

 

 

 

I have to say that although the subject matter for 5B is pretty dark, and there is the issue that just about all our guest characters are dead, with the "happy ending" being them getting a better kind of afterlife experience (except poor Milah), I'm finding it a little easier to take than 5A.

 

I agree.  For me, it's because in 5A, we already knew the outcome.  Emma would come out of it Dark Emma.  So the outcome was already bleak as hell.  What's hopeful about watching flashbacks where Emma struggles with the darkness when we knew she would succumb in the end?   That's the problem with the narrative technique where you jump forward in the present and within a half-season, tell in flashbacks how things came to be.  3B was similar.  Even 4A... we knew Anna wouldn't succeed on her journey and she would end up missing.  

Edited March 24, 2016 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

That's the problem with the narrative technique where you jump forward in the present and within a half-season, tell in flashbacks how things came to be.  3B was similar.  Even 4A... we knew Anna wouldn't succeed on her journey and she would end up missing.

I don't mind it as a storytelling technique necessarily because sometimes there's intrigue and interest about how something came about even if you know the outcome. That was the way season one was. We started at the end and worked our way backward, revealing bits and pieces that gave it new meaning. In the present day, we knew the curse was cast. The flashbacks just about started with the curse being cast (in the pilot). We already knew when we met Daniel that Regina was going to cast a curse. We just learned more about what went on behind it, and there was value in that.

 

With Anna, we didn't necessarily know that her being missing was a bad thing. She came back from her journey, so she didn't exactly fail. For all we knew, she might have still been out there, trying to help Elsa. I didn't get the same sense of doom and depression that we got from Dark Emma. That was a sign of true failure. It also involved the heroine of the story who got into that situation because she did something good that no one else could have done. That's what was so horrifying about it. There wasn't anything really to fight against because it was within her. And then there was the downer ending, where she was saved by the death of the man she loves, and then his sacrifice was in vain because it didn't destroy the Darkness, after all. The only "win" to come out of that whole arc was Emma being free of the darkness. It was just a reset to the status quo that left her as miserable as she was before, or worse. Meanwhile, Arthur has been somewhat exposed as a fraud, but his kingdom is still brainwashed, Dopey's still a tree, and Merida's still a bitch.

 

At least so far in the Underworld arc, there have been positive developments, with Henry Sr., Herc, and Meg getting to move on, Regina getting to reconcile with her parents, Milah getting to learn about her son (even if she got shafted), and they've rescued Hook from torture. Unless they go totally insane with the rest of the arc, we can assume more people will get to move on and the Storybrooke gang, including Hook, will get to return, so the overall situation should be better than they started with, even if they have to immediately face a new threat.

[HoodlumSheep]

It's weird but I still rather enjoy 5a. I just really wish Merlin hadn't turned into a plothole extravaganza with all his pointless warnings. I mean you could technically claim that it was due to him seeing a dozen different possible future outcomes and that's why all of them turned out pointless...but let's face it, it was just poor writing.

There were a number of issues besides Merlin, but I can't help but like 5a more than season 4 still. I liked Camelot, I liked the guest actors. I liked the CS storyline, even though it was just a repeating punch in the gut near the end.

Can't help it :P.

I do like 5b so far. It feels like the heroes are accomplishing things for once. We'll see if the feeling can survive the dreaded.usually-sluggish, middle episodes.

Edited March 24, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Camera One]

I don't mind it as a storytelling technique necessarily because sometimes there's intrigue and interest about how something came about even if you know the outcome.

I don't mind it either.  I loved it on "Lost", and in Season 1 as well as 4A.  When I don't like it is when the flashbacks continually show the character we love trying and trying at something that we know specifically she would ultimately not be successful at (eg. Emma in the 5A flashbacks resisting darkness).  For me, it's very hit and miss.

[KingOfHearts]

5A lacked focus. (Not as bad as 4B, but still.) First it was about Dark Swan, then Camelot, then Merida, then Nimue/Dark Ones, then Dark Hook. It flipped back and forth at random times. The plot kept derailing and Dark Swan ended up meaning a lot less than expected. Frozen, while it diverged from Storybrooke quite a bit, told a complete story. There was a beginning, a middle, and an end. It only departed from the continuing Arendelle saga once in its flashbacks.  While after a while it got draining and bit ridiculous, I could stay engaged in it much more because it didn't go half-assed. With Camelot/Merida, it derails the main plot without any coherency. It doesn't hold up on its own.

[Camera One]

True, that type of unfocusedness extended to both the flashbacks AND the present-day in the B-arcs often, 4B most egregious of all.  

 

I feel that in 5B so far, there's less connection between the flashbacks but the ultimate theme of unfinished business is more consistent, and that brings some cohesion.

[Mathius]

5A lacked focus. (Not as bad as 4B, but still.) First it was about Dark Swan, then Camelot, then Merida, then Nimue/Dark Ones, then Dark Hook. It flipped back and forth at random times. The plot kept derailing and Dark Swan ended up meaning a lot less than expected. Frozen, while it diverged from Storybrooke quite a bit, told a complete story. There was a beginning, a middle, and an end. It only departed from the continuing Arendelle saga once in its flashbacks.  While after a while it got draining and bit ridiculous, I could stay engaged in it much more because it didn't go half-assed. With Camelot/Merida, it derails the main plot without any coherency. It doesn't hold up on its own.

 

I wouldn't call Nimue/Dark Ones a seperate thing from Dark Hook; but otherwise yeah.  Dark Swan was the thing that was hyped to no end for 5A, but after her debut at the very end of the premiere she just dicked around doing random, non-threatening things while the focus was more on the Camelot stuff (this went on for four whole episodes: 5x02 - 5x05). Then we get two whole Merida episodes (5x06 and later 5x09), and the main plot shifting focus to Nimue and all the past Dark Ones who use Hook as their pawn, all while the Camelot stuff that was so emphasized previously just recedes further into the background (5x07 and 5x08 + 5x10 and 5x11)  In the end, the only consistency to 5A was "it was dark".

 

5B has been more consistent in its focus so far, but let's see what happens when Zelena returns....

Edited March 24, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

 

I wouldn't call Nimue/Dark Ones a seperate thing from Dark Hook; but otherwise yeah.

I also meant the Merlin/Nimue stuff.

[Camera One]

5B has been more consistent in its focus so far, but let's see what happens when...

 

That is true... we can't count our dark swans before they hatch.  As of the end of the third episode in 5A, there was still quite a bit of cohesion with Camelot.

[YaddaYadda]

I think the two Merida centrics are what lost cohesion because they were entirely separate from the rest of the plot. Merida was wedged in, and it just didn't make sense on a lot of levels. I didn't need Merida to tell me how much of an ass Arthur was. It was easy to figure out.

[KingOfHearts]

I agree Merida was the main problem that stood out among everything. She was the biggest turn-off.

[Rumsy4]

She is the single most obnoxious and superfluous character in the Show's recent history.

[Mari]

I agree Merida was the main problem that stood out among everything. She was the biggest turn-off.

 

 

She is the single most obnoxious and superfluous character in the Show's recent history.

Replying in the character thread.

[Mari]

,Huh.  I'm back-to-back posting.  Oh, well.  Like that's the worst thing that's happened this week.

 

I'm not sure where to put this, but figured I'd start here.  (If this is the wrong place, mods, please move it.)

 

We've talked in multiple threads about how terrible the back-to-back storytelling, with only days or weeks happening within a half season.  It's particularly glaring for Henry's poor actor.

 

Would switching to something more along the lines of 24's storytelling work?  (Full disclosure--did not watch 24.  Operating on how people described it.)  I know 24 jumped every season, and then covered a very short period of time in that particular year.  Would having the first episode of the season be establishing any necessary Storybrooke changes, with the flashbacks that the writers are devoted to being fill-in for the missing year, before moving on to the 2-3 weeks that's this year's crisis work to solve the scrunched time problem?

[Camera One]

Would switching to something more along the lines of 24's storytelling work?

 

The "24" structure was very one-of-a-kind, and wouldn't work for most shows.  Each season takes place over 24 hours (hence the title), each episode shows a certain hour minute by minute, and the characters are awake all 24 hours escaping dangerous situations and working to stop some epic disaster.  It cuts between different characters who are on separate story threads, so there are no flashbacks at all.  

 

The reason why "Once Upon a Time" has this time crunch is because not only does each half-season occur within a very short time interval, but because of the cliffhanger, the Writers usually need to begin the next season immediately after.  When they had the choice of leaving a time gap, they have consistently chosen a very short window of time. 

 

It's a problem they COULD solve, but it's almost like the Writers intentionally do the opposite, and push forward.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Camera One

[daxx]

An easy one would have been a year to find Emma after 4-22 they catch us up with the fruitless search and the episode starts with the solution to finding her being discovered. Would have made Dark Swan have more teeth if there was a real consequence. Killian's desperation would have made more sense. Emma being far enough down the dark path that TLK wouldn't work makes more sense and Henry gets a year older.

[Camera One]

And the reunion would have been all the more sweeter.  But can you imagine how excruciating it would have been to see Snow and Charming with zero scenes with Emma, if they had been apart for a year?  Since that would still have remained the same...

[Shanna Marie]

An easy one would have been a year to find Emma after 4-22 they catch us up with the fruitless search and the episode starts with the solution to finding her being discovered.

When I was playing mental speculation fanfic between seasons, that was what I was envisioning. I was picturing Emma landing wherever she was and possibly ending up in Camelot and the rest of the gang desperately trying to find her, with the season really getting going when they were just about to give up hope. They could have picked up with the scene after the cliffhanger, there in the street, and then have flashed a "six months later" or "a year later" on the screen and shown us the new status quo.

[KingOfHearts]

 

When I was playing mental speculation fanfic between seasons, that was what I was envisioning.

I see I'm not the only one who does that. I wanted to see how the rest of the Nevengers were going to live without Emma. Who would be the Savior for them? Can they work together without a leader? I was disappointed they found her in the first episode. Her vanishing only caused dramatic tension for that one episode, making the mystery of 4B's ending a little pointless. It was pretty obvious she was heading for the Dark One's vault, but it didn't need to happen. If you're going to reunite everyone in the premiere, why do a cliffhanger split in the finale beforehand? The dramatic effect doesn't hold up like it should.

Edited March 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

From memory, the only "gods" mentioned in this show with regards to the magical realms have been from the ancient greek pantheon. With this arc, are we to understand that the greek gods form the main supernatural pantheon of these people? It doesn't seem like anyone follows religious mores, and we don't see people praying to these gods. There are no mentions of temples/places of worship in the Enchanted Forest. None of the gods seem morally superior either. Poseidon was making his daughter lure sailors to their death, and Hades has been choking up all exists from the UW. So, what makes these "gods" different from normal people? Where do the fairies fit in?  

 

Also, for all the obsession with good and evil, it seems like dead people have a chance to do some sort of penance/deal with unfinished business, and move on to a happier plane of existence. The UW just seems like another realm, no big deal, and Hades is its ruler. We don't see the presence of gods influence the lives of people any other way.

 

The Worldbuilding once again is atrocious.  From what we've seen, as you've said, the Underworld just seems like another realm, albeit only for Dead People.  Poseidon was just living in the Oceans.  

 

I suppose the "Gods" are the dwellers of the Upper Realm Mount Olympus, and they are considered Gods since they can go into other realms and mess with the inhabitants.  I suppose they are also immortal.  

 

Hercules was just wandering around the Enchanted Forest.  I wonder if there is a part which is more Ancient Greek-ish.  Perhaps that's where they pray to these Greek Gods.  Maybe close to where Snowing met Medusa, which seemed like another random part of the Enchanted Forest.  There's apparently a part of the Enchanted Forest which is more Ancient China-ish.

 

Arendelle and Dunbroch seems to have their own names, but they're both somewhere in the same "realm" as the Enchanted Forest.  Whereas Ancient Greek-ish and Ancient China-ish, and the kingdoms of Cinderella, Aurora, Rapunzel, Eric, Snow, etc., plus Camelot and Sherwood Forest are all in Enchanted Forest proper.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Camera One

[tennisgurl]

And Dunbroch is also Scotland, considering Hook called Merida a Scot at some point. So its like a magical Scotland. Or something. The Enchanted Forest must be freaking huge.

 

The Worldbuilding on this show is a mess, and it is too bad. A whole multiverse of stories, and they cant even figure out one magical land, and how its basic geography works. 

[Shanna Marie]

The Enchanted Forest must be freaking huge.

And yet a host of other kingdoms are an easy walk from there.