S03.E11: La Serpiente

[raven]

Following the rekindling of an old friendship, a mission is launched to replenish the Ranch's water supply by seeking the help of another community.
 

[oakville]

I enjoyed this episode. I liked the focus on Strand & Daniel. Madison was tolerable. Lola is an interesting character. It turns out that she knows how treat the water from the dam. She worked at the dam prior to the ZA according to the Talking Dead.

[dely]

I feel like I totally missed something?, but can anyone tell me what the deal was with the VW Bug??  Strand made such a big point of finding it and pushing it to the sewer entrance and then  ... pphhttt. WTF?  

While he was pushing it I thought maybe he wanted something small to somehow maneuver over the opening once they started down but they seemed to just leave it sitting there beside the open hole.  Then I thought for sure Chris would ask about it on Talking, especially when I saw that Coleman was a guest, but, nope!

 

Does anyone know what this was in aid of?

[william0102]

Pretty sure the VW was just to mark where the sewer entrance was- Strand learned about the sewers from the black market people, so he was looking for 'landmarks' to know he was going the right way: the VW, the eye in the sewers, the markings for the dam at the top of the one tunnel.

I missed the memo about the show being back last week, but I caught up before this evening. It was rough watching those first two episodes with the way race relations are right now in the U.S., so I was glad tonight's episode was a break from that. The episode was kinda boring, but Madison was tolerable. Thank god for Strand, he made this episode worth watching. I usually enjoy Daniel, but it was hard watching the stuff involving Lola. 

[JackONeill]

I guess TPTB decided to throw up one of their boring episodes because of the Emmys' competition.

I wonder, though, how TPTB decided on which boring episode to air. There are so many to choose from.

[OhTheHumanity]

So again, we have Madison's group willing to ruin the security for a large group of people to get what they want:

• From the first season, when the "heroes" destroyed the fence around their neighborhood so that they could get OUT, neglecting to close it up on their way out which allowed the dead to get IN
• Their destruction of the security perimeter at the medical/jail center where Nick was being detoxed and met Strand
• The destruction of the security perimeter at the hotel, because Madison just HAD to turn on the hotel signage lights for Travis (and all of the desperate survivors and the dead, of course) to find them.
• The destruction of the military base where they were being detained at the beginning of Season 3
• The near-destruction of the Ranch (and the killing of the Ranch patriarch who took them in)--I still fully expect them to leave the Ranch in ruins and overrun by the dead at some point
• Now blowing up a truck and bringing down the fence keeping both dead and hostile alive out of the dam area...their self-serving destruction of the security of others knows no limits.

[oakville]

I still don't understand the geography of the area. Wouldn't everyone know about the location of the lake? Alicia was swimming in a lake a few episodes ago. Where did the water shortage plot come from? 

[JackONeill]

8 minutes ago, oakville said:

I still don't understand the geography of the area. Wouldn't everyone know about the location of the lake? Alicia was swimming in a lake a few episodes ago. Where did the water shortage plot come from? 

The writers ran out of other contrived problems.

[william0102]

1 hour ago, oakville said:

I still don't understand the geography of the area. Wouldn't everyone know about the location of the lake? Alicia was swimming in a lake a few episodes ago. Where did the water shortage plot come from? 

At first I just assumed that the water had been drying up over the years, that was the only thing I could think of when Madison was looking at the map, pretty sure I saw some dates on it. But this episode, Effran (sp?) said that Lola/Dante had basically locked up the dam from it sending water out to the tributaries/whatever. Not sure how that would effect the ranch's water supply since it's across the border, but how else do you explain a lake drying up over the course of a week? lol

[Iguessnot]

13 hours ago, dely said:

I feel like I totally missed something?, but can anyone tell me what the deal was with the VW Bug??  Strand made such a big point of finding it and pushing it to the sewer entrance and then  ... pphhttt. WTF?  

While he was pushing it I thought maybe he wanted something small to somehow maneuver over the opening once they started down but they seemed to just leave it sitting there beside the open hole.  Then I thought for sure Chris would ask about it on Talking, especially when I saw that Coleman was a guest, but, nope!

 

Does anyone know what this was in aid of?

There were several problems with that scene. Strand mentioned that the walkers wouldn't notice them after they went underground. But since when in the walking dead universe do you leave the cover open for the dead to just drop in? Even when they were scurrying underground there was a shot of walkers peering down at them from another grate.  So much for underground invisibility.

My jaw dropped when they had Walker say to Strand that the VW wouldn't plow through the walkers. They just plowed through a bunch of disabled cars with their water truck that was parked right over there. They didn't know what Strand was up to, but Walker sure didn't think they were looking for a vehicle just to drive down the road. It was just a stupid sentence used as a lead in to Strand's reveal. 

The three musketeers drenched in sewage, walk into the Water Queen's office and she asks them to sit down on her white office chairs. Uhh, I don't think so.  

Edited September 18, 2017 by Iguessnot

[Gobi]

I'll confess  I wasn't being as attentive as I should have been, but I really thought Walker was in the truck that exploded, and that Strand had rigged it to explode. I couldn't understand why Strand and Madison thought it was so funny. Half right, at least.

[Haleth]

12 hours ago, OhTheHumanity said:

So again, we have Madison's group willing to ruin the security for a large group of people to get what they want:

• From the first season, when the "heroes" destroyed the fence around their neighborhood so that they could get OUT, neglecting to close it up on their way out which allowed the dead to get IN
• Their destruction of the security perimeter at the medical/jail center where Nick was being detoxed and met Strand
• The destruction of the security perimeter at the hotel, because Madison just HAD to turn on the hotel signage lights for Travis (and all of the desperate survivors and the dead, of course) to find them.
• The destruction of the military base where they were being detained at the beginning of Season 3
• The near-destruction of the Ranch (and the killing of the Ranch patriarch who took them in)--I still fully expect them to leave the Ranch in ruins and overrun by the dead at some point
• Now blowing up a truck and bringing down the fence keeping both dead and hostile alive out of the dam area...their self-serving destruction of the security of others knows no limits.

I'm guessing before the end of the season Madison will blow up the dam and flood the entire region. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Seriously, there are no other available water sources between New Mexico/Arizona border or wherever the hell the camp is supposed to be ... and Tijuana ?  No wells, no streams, nothing at all.

The water in that tanker truck will not last long -- they will have to make a run every couple of days to keep up.  It won't just be used for drinking water, but for cooking and washing in the kitchen, medical uses, etc.

Seriously, couldn't the writers have put the camp closer to the damn dam ?

[thuganomics85]

So, Madison's grand plan to get water from the dam backfires since Lola ain't down with that shit, but surprise, surprise!  Strand and David manage to get her to change her mind thanks to deceit and trickery.  Seriously, Maddie and the gang would be hopeless without those two.  They might not be nice guys and they may hate each other, but when Strand and David put their heads together, things tend to get done!  Always down to watch Ruben Blades and Colman Domingo be awesome together.

That said, Lola really is not impressing me so far, and I don't see her holding on to the dam for very long, even if she gets those weapons.  Again, she's just lucky that David owes her.  Also have a feeling Efrain is going to cause problems later on, since he's clearly not happy with this development.

Actually enjoyed Walker's sheepish grin, when the water tank pulled up.  At least he doesn't make it personal when he is proven wrong.

Things seem to be going well for the gang for once.  Which means shit is so going down on The Ranch next week!

[diebartdie]

8 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

The water in that tanker truck will not last long -- they will have to make a run every couple of days to keep up.  It won't just be used for drinking water, but for cooking and washing in the kitchen, medical uses, etc.
 

Don't forget, somehow they have to always have enough gas to drive that big ass truck back and forth too.

[FishyJoe]

I don't get why Madison was so giddy to see Walker. He was going to throw everyone out to the wolves. He's probably going to bitch about giving up the guns up anyways. 

How do they even defend that reservoir? There must be miles of fences. They would need hundreds of people to defend it. Kind of like the border, which makes me wonder what happened to the Rio Grande?

[Bongo Fury]

WOW, fewer than 20 posts in this thread almost 48 hours after the viewing. That more than anything speaks to the craptacular nature of this show.

[FishyJoe]

12 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Don't forget, somehow they have to always have enough gas to drive that big ass truck back and forth too.

Not only the gas. Of all places, she picks the Mexicali trading post as a meeting spot? Nothing bad would ever happen there...

[kj4ever]

14 hours ago, Bongo Fury said:

WOW, fewer than 20 posts in this thread almost 48 hours after the viewing. That more than anything speaks to the craptacular nature of this show.

I came here to see if this episode was any better to see if I should finish watching the first craptacular 2 hour show and was shocked that this is it.  I'm out.

[raven]

On 9/17/2017 at 10:27 PM, oakville said:

I enjoyed this episode. I liked the focus on Strand & Daniel.

I liked it as well and focusing on Strand and Daniel is always good, even though the whole "distract the zombies with tiny beeping thing" was silly.   Sometimes it seems the show is trying not to show anyone in too bad or too good of a light - even Lola, who doesn't want to kill people herself, uses Daniel for strength and came off kind of unreasonable.  Yet so are the racist ranchers,  Taqa is being stubborn, etc.  Still I guess that is life and prejudice has a way of sticking around, even in the apocalypse.  Most people aren't going to be like Efrain and want to help others. 

Some of the shine of Lola being in charge is wearing off of Daniel, with him singing "down with the water queen" at the end.  I don't think he wants to be in charge, so who?

The scene with Madison and Strand was good (the Colman Domingo effect) - I was actually interested to learn that she feels at home on the ranch.   I hope the show keeps that friendship intact - he blew up a water truck to help her!

There are still too many contrivances and dumb decisions (like Madison not killing Troy) which does drag the show down a bit.

[kj4ever]

On 9/20/2017 at 11:46 AM, icemiser69 said:

I think one of the many huge mistakes this series has made and was magnified in this episode, is how totally irrelevant the walkers have become.  They don't seem to be any threat to anyone.  They were distracted and walked off the road by a little noise?  Pathetic.

Without the walker threat, it just goes to show how weak this cast has become.   Perhaps it was weak all along and I just didn't notice it.

Does anyone really care about Madison and her family?  I know I don't.  So what is left?  Strand finally coming back to be part of the show, and hopefully Daniel will stick around as well.  Those two make it somewhat watchable.

Still, I can absolutely see why the ratings have dropped as much as they have.   Madison and her family can't carry the show. 

I know some people online have been squawking about the new show runners for season four, but I can't imagine that the new show runners could be any worse than whomever is running the show now.

I think you're on to something here.  I mean on the Mothership they were still terrified of them, but these city people from California have it all figured out in a matter of weeks.  Lame.

[BasilSeal]

13 hours ago, kj4ever said:

think you're on to something here.  I mean on the Mothership they were still terrified of them, but these city people from California have it all figured out in a matter of weeks.  Lame.

Oh i don't know, one of the problems (for me) with TWD original is that the characters are so spectacularly dumb, and fail to learn from their experiences. I find it refreshing that the FTWD characters are marginally smarter. Let's face it, if Rick and team fucknut were running the show here, the ranch would already be a smoking ruin with most of the inhabitants dead, the dam would have been blown up, the people there eaten by walkers and Rick and ShutUpCarl would be walking back to the ranch with their haul of water in a leaky bucket.

 

Obviously the ranch will end up as a smoking ruin and the dam will be blown up in the end  because that's the nature of the show but at least Madison is, you know, making an effort.

12 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I am glad Madison didn't kill Troy.

From a plot point of view perhaps, but this is one of the things that rather undermines my point above that the FTWD crew are smarter. Troy has the potential to fuck things up for them all, he's unstable, violent and he's a mass murderer who had people killed for shits and giggles. not the sort of person to leave wandering around bearing a massive grudge against you.

I think the reason for Madison not killing him is that she wants to retain some of her humanity, most of us would chose not to kill another person, so even though i'm sure it will turn out to be a bad decision i'll let maddie off on that one.

On 21/09/2017 at 1:24 AM, raven said:

Sometimes it seems the show is trying not to show anyone in too bad or too good of a light - even Lola, who doesn't want to kill people herself, uses Daniel for strength and came off kind of unreasonable. 

i think this is the whole point of the show. We all think we'd be "good people" (a stock phrase that's repeated many times in this franchise), but the truth is in a situation like this one we'd have to be selfish and if we survived it would be at the expense of others. If you're on a luxury yacht stocked with supplies you can't pick up the people on the sinking ship because they might take your stuff and throw you overboard.

There's a constant theme of our heroes fucking other people over to save themselves or further their interests. (ohthehumanity has already provided a handy list of examples.) however it seems even those who want to do the best for everyone, like Lola, are forced by circumstances to make difficult choices. she tries to help the surviving townspeople by rationing and controlling the water, but they resent the power this gives her. (you'd think that going from Dante making them pay for the water and throwing anyone who complained off the top of the dam to Lola giving them water for free would have been enough of a hint for the people to realise she was on their side, but hey ho.)

 

The ultimate message is survival requires compromise, the dichotomy is that though the characters survive at the expense of others, it's also necessary for long term survival to cooperate and trust others in order to re build society. Overall the characters in this show make better choices than their counterparts in Georgia though. Even the Y'all Qaeda boys back at the ranch realise they need to work with the Native Americans rather than start a pointless war that will kill everyone.

[raven]

I've moved the posts comparing TWD and FtWD to the comparison thread.  Please continue the discussion there as it is off topic for this thread.  Thank you!